Guild Wars 2

Sebrent.3625:

Aye, I could see Assassin’s Reward better fitting into Shadow Arts. That makes sense.

Heh. I meant Equilibrium, there. (Unfortunate side-effect of multiple Traits with the same first word ) And, I only mean Assassin’s Equilibrium as currently coded. I still think that should have been Stability-on-Dodge. After all, that would at least be a more “Acrobatic” concept.

Sebrent.3625:

I’m not understanding your point with FLeet of Foot. You can dodge roll when you are crippled/chilled. You can not dodge roll when immobilized. So a trait that says dodge rolls remove immobilize doesn’t seem useful to me since the condition is cleansed by doing something the condition prevents.

My point there is that: the Trait already has a base benefit of cancelling out two “movement-imparing” Conditions (i.e. Chill/Cripple). I merely suggest enhancing its known functionality, since Immobilize can also be considered a “movement-imparing”
Condition.

Are you saying you want the trait to also read “Immobilize does not prevent dodge rolls” ? That’d be an interested concept … but that would be extremely powerful since most burst are lead by a stun or immobilize … especially against slippery Thieves :-p

Now, that’s something I didn’t even consider … I’d like to see others’ opinions on something like this.

Sebrent.3625:

Aye, I hate what they did with the ICDs for Mesmer. Whenever I feel like being a tanky Mesmer I get a little sad and mad because I can’t do it nearly as well as I used to … and I was never a PU build … just got nerfed because of the griping about it :-/

I’ve run Condition and/or Interrupt since start. We’ll save my Glamour-nerf rants for the Mes Forums.
(Although, this kind of thing is why I always say Mesmers and Thieves should honestly stick together: both have eaten some annoying nerfbat, due to QQ about the opponent having to fight a “slippery” class. I say, learn the Mindkitten … love the Mindkitten.)

Well, either idea can work on Assassin’s Reward, tbh. The main issue is that it’s a GM and, even after it was (so-called!) “buffed,” it’s still not honestly worth a GM slot.

As for Fleet of Foot? That same argument can be made for being “Crippled,” but we see how that works out in code-logic. You could lore-blame it on that “Denial” Magic both Thieves and Mesmers are known for.

And, it’s less that AE is bad, and more that it seems (as currently designed) suited for SA than for Acro. Of course, I could make the same argument for Fleet Shadow. As for Traits with ICDs, you’ve seen my opinion of the mess ANet made of Mesmer Traits with ICDs … the less of the same crap I see on the Thief side, the better. >_<

There are a few things that could be done to somewhat normalize the SA/Acro divide.

• Assassin’s Reward needs better scaling than it currently possesses.
• Pain Response should be retweaked to remove Torment … especially when one considers that PR also handles other “pain” conditions (i.e. Burning, Bleeding, Poison).
• I would not be adverse to adding another Might stack to Power of Inertia.
• Fleet of Foot removes Cripple/Weakness. I’m a bit surprised that Immob. wasn’t added to that.
• Assassin’s Equilibrium … seriously, it’s an insult to hand Revenants Stability-on-dodge, when AE should have honestly been the original Dodge-Stability.

Although, these are just from my opinion. I’d think others on this side of the forum jungle would mostly agree.

@Sebrent.
In regards to the “revealed” reversion in PvE/WvW: (IIRC-) It was reverted due to the idea that a typical Thief AA cycle is ~3 seconds. Having to work around that additional second thus screws with a Thief player’s rotations.

As for Stealth, it’s quite simple.

• There need to be equivalent options in both Shadow Arts and Acrobatics.

Fact is, until that is the case, you will always see more folk going heavy into SA.
Take Assassin’s Reward versus Shadow’s Rejuvenation, as an example. Let’s also not even discuss that Assassin’s Equilibrium — an Acrobatics GM Trait — relies on stealth for its bonus to trigger … Frankly, it’s a matter of front-loading the absolute hell out of stealth-oriented setups, so that the devs can sweep overall design issues under the rug.

Traveller for me. But then, I almost always run Focus. Sigil of Speed’s an interesting choice, but then you lose out on any “offensive” Sigil in that slot.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Ele’s already have this GM trait only it’s on CC effect. 6 in their second line, shoots a lightning bolt

Lightning Rod. It’s a fun one, and I use it on my Ele all the time. Funny thing is, it was originally only on-’rupt, but that got patched to on-CC.

As for the main topic? An interesting idea. And, going with a power damage option at least preserves the overall “flow” of the Dom line.

Out of my usual “main” pets:

• Jaguar: Mittens
• Jungle Stalker: Snuggles
• Raven: Sir Nevermore
• Jungle Spider: Madame Tarantula
• Shark: Chompy

Now, you know … you have to make these things believable
No way they’re removing stealth, with how much they continually frontload it … and LR?

Curunen.8729:

Fay.2735:

I’m disappointed that shiny isn’t an option

Need playable skritt, now.

I’d love it. However, how do we implement the quasi-hivemind that Skritt possess?

Right. As far as the mentions of Mesmer and Phantasm backpieces:

• Sure, they got fixed. However, clones -last I knew- went back to showing no offhands … so, let’s consider that a net loss, shall we?

As for on-topic:

• Eh, considering they finally seem to be getting to some of the annoyances from launch (condition stack upgrades, anyone?), I suppose I can be cautiously optimistic about the ‘Sacks. But, only time will tell at this point … and I would like to think they know a lot of Engineer players (both mains, and alt players) aren’t one bit amused, right now.

Cautiously Smexxy?

I went Asura, personally. But then, it’s funny as hell to have an Asura gal runnin around, shooting fools in the kneecaps. And the PW from Asura is amazeballs.

More like; the damage per clone’d get scaled downward to account for the fourth clone.
As is, it takes enough to ramp up a proper IP Mind Wrack. Imagine it taking yet another easily-poofed illusion to toss out.

Hell. Who says they’re “clones,” anyway. Considering the known manipulation of space and time that GW2 Mesmers utilize … the clones are actually you from an alternate timeline (most likely convergent present, possibly future). With this in mind, do you honestly think that if I don’t shatter them, I myself won’t be the one cast into the Void?
Ergo, it’s an eternal war against myself. And I (THIS I) kitten well plan to win.

Yea. Cause Mesmers with acceptable OOC speed are OP, Sebrent. At least, that’s the vibe I get from almost 3 years of unstackable Temporal Curtain.

Hmmm … do I smell my Rabid/Dire spec becoming worth a kitten in PvE? I can only hope.

With all due respect, the absolute last thing we need more of in-game is Runes that enable class mechanics to “work right.” These issues are major enough to the profession as a whole that we need to entreat ANet to handle biz at the source.
After saying that, I’d fully support any means of making changes like those internal to Mesmers; for instance, via Trait alteration.

It’s coming from Hammerspace. So are all the Turrets.

Condition Damage and Toughness main. (Due to the Chaotic Transference bleedover).
Another stat to have high would be Precision. You’d want that for extra bleeds from Sharper Images procs.
You could mix in some Dire (Condition Damage/Toughness/Vitality) for extra durability. Typically, you’re doing alright condiwise with ~40-50% crit rate, at least in my experience.

Eh, one can argue any of the last run of “new” traits as “balancing with new skills,” cyyrix.
Although, I do see your overall point. As for DE being an adept major? Folk around these parts’ve been asking for that for how long, again?
Hell, if we’re going to beat our collective heads off the walls in here, why not go large?

Also:
I don’t mind most of your ideas, Noss … but there’s one I must take slight exception to:

• Triumphant Distortion: Needs the ICD removed, especially since that’s how the trait was originally spoken of.
  [This alone would increase TD’s usefulness. If we then needed something else to work around Distortion in general, then]
• Masterful Reflection: Should apply to any Distortion effect.

But, that’s just my two coppers. /shrug

I think such a change is absolutely necessary. I don’t mind the (relatively) slow production of Phantasms, since their main purpose is to act as long-term damage sources; but yes, clone production should be modified to make DE more of an option instead of a “you must take this, for almost any Mesmer spec to work.”
Hell, Mesmer’s reliance on DE reminds me of Shadow Arts on Thief; namely that both options are (arguably) too well-loaded to the point where you’re effectively crippling yourself by not using ’em.

And, to any Devs what might be paying attention:

• “Necessary-for-basic-class-function” traits absolutely bite. It’s one thing to choose between two (or more) equally cool options. (Illusionary Persona versus current Maim, for example.) But, one should absolutely avoid creating trait sets that become “needed” for basic class functionality.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

AnniMira.2506:

Hehe, when the shield is stoved, it stops thief’s backstabs!

Ha! That would be interesting.

Take 50% less damage from attacks to the back when shield is stowed

Put some work on that stow-weapon button!

Unfortunately, with (many of-) this game’s shield skins …

Lose 90% fashion sense while shield is equipped.
Gain +100% clipping while shield is stowed

Reversion of past nerfs would be -IMO- the main improvement on Mesmer as a class.

• For example, the combination of getting shafted by LOS requirements + blind wrecking your illusion summons is pretty insane. Then, let’s add in the patch where clone-death effects were able to be blocked/invuln’d/Aegis’d.
• As I’ve said for months, the combination of Glamour nerfs, Confusion damage and Blinding Befuddlement being given an ICD was unwarranted in the extreme.
• Likewise, nerfing both the invuln and the CD of Blurred Frenzy was over-the-top.
• Yet again, if Shattered Strength at 3 stacks/clone was “OP,” we could have at least attempted a 2 stacks/clone ratio.
• “Hello, Dev-guys? We need to talk.” -Signed, Chaos Armor and Chaos Shield

As far as actually changing Mesmer mechanics?

• Illusions are pretty much paper, for any high-AoE scenario. This would be fine if Mesmer wasn’t defacto invested in an Active Illusions = Damage equation.
  [Even Ranger at least has decent personal DPS, overall. They’re just shafted by horrid AI. Illusion AI works better (mainly due to the focus on one target), but they aren’t near as durable. Not that they should be, mind. However, they should be survivable enough to work with, overall]
  [I understand that this is not as much an issue in clone-death builds … heck, then you want clones popping like soap bubbles when the enemy looks at ’em wrong. However, this does limit Shatter/Phant/(arguably) Lockdown builds. Hard to keep up burst if your “resource” dies on the way to the target.]

• (This is a problem for classes in general) Traits need looked into, and when needed, consolidated. Glamour, anyone? Hell, look at how Mantra and Lockdown traits are tossed all around the place.

• (Also a problem for classes in general) Traits that are plain out BAD need altered and/or replaced. Hello, Disrupter’s. And, let’s not talk about “downed” traits. Relying on being a pube’s width from death for a Trait to be “useful” is just plain ridiculous.

• (Yet another classes-wide problem) Weapons whose design just stinks of deliberate neglect. It’s one thing to try to balance a weapon out to not be overwhelmingly good, but how does one even remotely justify crap like: IMage existing on the same weapon that grants The Prestige?

Meh. Here I go, ranting again …

As much as Ranger gets trashtalked, I must admit that the class has a pretty wide variety of possible builds to work with. Not to mention, trolling glass cannons with Jaguars never gets old.

What about Pack, if you’ve got the gold … or would those not work as well on a Thief?
I’d probably do Hoelbrak, since as is, I already run Melandru for some condition defense.
/shrug

Chaos Archangel.5071:

All I can think of is how delicious 6/x/6/0/0 – CS/CI would be…

Or even 6/2/0/0/6 (which is actually quite good and really fun, despite all the effort it takes)

Tourney viable for sure. =[

Stop that … you’re making me drool. Hell, why not 0/2/6/0/6 Maimrupt?

Thief’s got a similar problem as Mesmer, when it comes to getting really rude with Celestial. Namely, that mightstacking is what makes Celementalist/Celegineer as hardcore as they are. Thief can stack might a bit, but not nearly in their league.

Although, I wonder what’d happen with a Cele Thief and Power of Inertia/Sigils of Battle/Energy …

Eh. My old idea was to make LR function like Decoy. Unfortunately, since that time, ANet removed the stealth/revealed bypass from Decoy, so I’m back to square frigging one on this bit.
Honestly, the best option now would be to simply make it a major trait. Then, everyone wins. LR haters don’t need to deal with it, and LR fans’ll slot that bad boy in seconds.

Eh. There’s at least one “good” thing about Rifle. Namely, more bullets for Gunslinger specs. Break out your SSH mixes and Touhou Project OSTs.

Eh. Maybe the “transform” simply makes you a Time Lord? (sonic screwdriver for #1, summon TARDIS as #5)

Ross Biddle.2367:

Sadrien.3470:

Lol………………….minimumlengthreq…..

When Anet fixes Mesmer, we get nerfed: sans iLeap “fix” 2014

cough

……wheeze

Not just Mesmer getting screwed, there. #DSOverflowFix

• (As for the idea of Thief getting nerfed and coming back stronger … trust me, it just seems that way because Thief can still burst decently. Then you play one for a while and notice crap like: most of yer traps bite, most of your utils in general are nonexistant underwater, ANet keeps trying to shove Venoms down yer bloody throat…
  Hell, whoever thought of those should be forced to run a V-share Thief for a month or two.)
• Anyway, it just seems that there is a large breech between the ideas ANet had for each profession, and the reality of how they operate in the wild. Yet again, they honestly need two things:
  1. Repeat after me: Public. Test. Realm.
  2. Let us not forget to chant: Skill-splits between PvP/PvE.

I’m more towards the hope of melee-staff … although, the MH Torch/Pyromaniac bit could be hella fun.

What do you feel the Mesmer is currently lacking ATM? Please don’t use general terms like “damage” without elaborating for what game mode and why you feel this way.

• A decent ability to swap builds around, and get reasonable results. Namely, the entire Deceptive Evasion biz. This totally screws build diversity, since any (non-phant) Mesmer is typically running with 4 points less to work with.
• Another large issue is the lack of proportion between mainhand and offhand weaponry. Mesmer absolutely requires another MH. Also, Scepter 1/3 could use some speedboosting. MH Sword’s taken some hits as well (BF double-nerf, ILeap wackiness).

What game mode (PvP, WvW, PvE Open World/Dungeons) do you feel Mesmer currently excels in the most? Least?

• Most: Solo-to-smallscale WvW, PvP
• Least: Zerg events (The curse of needing AI for main damage …)

Without reworking anything, what minor adjustments would you make to any of our weapons/utilities/traits to make them more viable?

• My “reworks” would mainly be un-nerfing some of what ANet panic-nerfed (With the drop in Confusion dmg, did Blinding Befuddlement need a beating? No. Nor did Chaos Storm and Armor. You see the point …)

Is there anything that would make you stop playing Mesmer? If you’ve stopped what would draw you back?

• TBH, the Glamour nerf-a-thon kept me outta purple for a good month. Anything else that ill-considered? I may have to go H.A.M. as a Thief.
  As for what’d bring me back … it’s not complicated. At least act like you have an overall plan for Mesmer. It’s the sheer wackiness of things that offends.

What has damaged your faith in the devs? Is there any faith remaining? What would have to happen to earn back your trust?

• Too many ill-considered, reactionary nerfs. Not just on Mesmers, but in general it makes me wonder if the balance team has been the same since launch. My faith, as it were, is at a low ebb. For that to change, I would have to see consistency in balancing, and balancing done with logic per gamemode. As it is, there are too many things that if nerfed in PvP, will be fine there … but crap in WvW or PvE. The scales and numbers of attackers are too different.

What is your one (reasonable) Mesmer wish?
Hmmm … replacement of crap traits (Disrupter’s, any “downed” B.S.).

We ask for nerfs, we’d get those. And you know this, Ramiel.

Traveler. You can’t shatterspike what you can’t catch. Typically 0/4/4/0/6, for me. Rabid, Dire trinkets.

Dagger Storm > Thieves’ Guild > Basilisk. At least, that was how I went. Of course, I mainly levelled my Thief in WvW, so she needed that extra projectile reflect.

@nightblood
The problem with ac buffing in stealth is that it further frontloads SA as the premier option for Thief defense. Whereas, we need to be pushing for better overall options in Acro.

Tell me about it. I main the two classes most rankled by this bit. And I absolutely doubt they’ve -in return- managed to fix pathing issues, for ’ports or otherwise.

(Hell, it also really frags over Necros … considering that after ANet’s “fix” of DS/damage overflow properties, Spectral Walk and Wurm are about it, for their escapes.)

That’s an interesting take, Dondagora. I’d not complain, since I tend to run mainly condilock these days. The only issue is in believing that something that BA could happen, considering the overall nerf-to-buff-to-HolyKittenBroken that skills in this game cycle through … and more so on the more “complex” classes.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Unless they revert the ileap nerf. =P

Sure, Chaos. They’ll revert the ileap nerf … just like Eles got the nerf on RtL removed. Or Glamour got put back to rights.

Zarathustra.1458:

Trust them when they deliver, but what have they delivered since the beta that has actually been any good ?

Just a few, off the top of my head:

• Glamours – until their overnerfing
• Triumphant Distortion – if it ever is implemented the way it was originally discussed. Once you drop that ICD, it immediately becomes BA.
• Power Block – before it got honestly overnerfed. Instead of the “X” seconds against Thieves, removing “X” amount of Initiative could’ve worked. But, as we know, they didn’t even attempt to run it that way.
• Shattered Strength buff – I still maintain that if 3 stacks/illusion shattered was “too much,” then try at 2/per. Like the idea for Power Block, this did not happen.

You see, it’s part “not being able to deliver,” sure. However, it’s even more thay they’re (arguably) “afraid to deliver.” You also see this in other professions. Examples: Necro and Lifesteal, Eles and the RTL c/d nerf.
Someone back at ANet HQ needs to be a bit less scared to make a potentially high-end change. It can also be said that:

• They should’ve had a public test server from the freaking jump. This would allow for testing wide-scale changes, before releasing them into the wild.

• Balance changes need to be somewhat more frequent. We’ve had periods of time where no balance alterations come in for months. It’s also silly to actively avoid balance concerns preceeding and/or during WvW seasons/PvP tourneys. These are the times when you’d logically want to address balancing concerns.

I’m holding out for -at the least- offhands as mainhands. It satisfies the MH Pistol and MH Focus desires, potentially.

• I don’t trust their abilty to create good Mesmer utilities. Need I mention how some of our signets are, let alone the “new” Mimic?
• Sure as Sin, they’re not going to code in changable OH skills based on MH weapon. Not just for Mesmers, at the very least.
• As for revamping the class mechanic, I also doubt it … if only because Shatters are a bit more finicky than -for instance- changing Adrenaline to not longer persist OOC, or tweaking Initiative gain ratio. They’d have to go into what each Shatter does, and how to alter it. This, mind you from the same folks who “fixed” Mimic, denied a broken P-zerker for months. and still won’t even bother to address swiftness stacking and Mesmer T. Curtain.
• Yes, I realise how grim I sound. However, I’m also a person who’s directly watched the nerf-cycle of this game. Hell, just using my two “main” choices (Mesmer/Thief), I’ve watched periods of time where either’d be screwed over. So, I hope for good things, but prepare for absolute suck.

Mesmer. It’s all about the combined troll potential of two classes who thrive on mindscrewing opponents and controlling enemy positions. Not to mention the stealth cover from both, and the extra potential boons from a Mesmer with the right kit.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

I remember one year ago when I asked people if imbued should be standard and the only answer I got was “No, it would be OP”. Its interesting to see how that opinion has changed over one year. It seems everyone wants diversion to be aoe now (I would love it personally).

I do think imbued diversion in it’s current state (Wider diversion radius) would be leaning towards OP, but making it baseline with the range of normal shatters actually does seem reasonable.

.. o_O To be honest, I can’t remember my reasons as to why I felt it would be OP before. Different meta, I guess. Or could be that I said we’d get drowned in a flood of QQ tears and end up overnerfed.

We’re Mesmer players, Chaos (and Chaos)… we struggle with a certain degree of Stockholm Syndrome. With that said, I’d not be against making Diversion small-scale AoE. At that point, one could use Imbued D. to make said AoE larger.

Honestly, the biggest problem with ID (and MtD!) is the fact that Illusionary Persona is a total “bro” of a trait. Don’t get me wrong, I do like the idea of traits
having to compete with one another, … it’s just that that concept seems to only really work in Illusions (and Dueling to a lesser extent). I’d frigging love it if all trait lines were set up in a similar fashion.

Eh.

• Drop “downed trait” bullkitten from any class. Those traits are (IMO) a sad joke.
• Condense the Glamour Traits already, particularly in Inspiration. I don’t care if the “fused” trait is a Master, but it needs done.
• You do not need an ICD on Deceptive Evasion, simply because clone-gen is frigging essential to any non-Phantasm Mesmer. What we need is something along the lines of : Make a certain degree of dodge-cloning inbuilt to the class. Nothing too ridiculous, but enough to cover “basic” Mesmering. You can then allow DE to be a “booster” of that functionality.
• Unnerf the following: Blinding Befuddlement, Chaos Armor, Chaos Storm. Especially BB, that was an inexcusable nerf, and was only done because our devs overreacted to Glamour-bomber Mesmers.
• So, who else remembers that Triumphant Distortion was originally hyped as having NO ICD? I do, and for kitten’s sake, I’m still waiting. No logical excuse, honestly. Not like that 6 points isn’t a major trait investment.
• Disruptor’s needs either changed or replaced. Considering that Mesmers scale abysmally with Healing Power stat, the trait is useless in its present incarnation.
• We may wish to look at Blurred Frenzy. The fact of that skill eating a double nerf is silly.
• Signets could use some adjustment. As we are now, certain Signets are rather guaranteed to get passed over. Perhaps modification/addition of the abilities gained is in order.
• Temporal Curtain and its functionality: Seriously, it’s way past time to allow this skill to at least interact with other sources of Swiftness. Even Guardian, who almost rivals Mesmers in OOC slowness, can at least freaking stack their Swiftness applications.
• I still want to see Confusion-on-Interrupt as a Mesmer thing. Silly that the known trait of this type’s a Warrior bit.

Eh’d. I’d like Venoms reworked completely, Traps altered to be slot-worthy without a runeset, some acceptable balance between Acrobatics and Shadow Arts as sources of a Thief’s condi-clear/sustain options … oh, and P/P upgraded.
Did I miss anything?

If it were up to me, it would have been MH Pistol or MH Focus. Especially since Mesmer already has a decent amount of offhands.

Sure, Pyro … but we both know that’s precisely why Diversion/ID are the way they are: it’d make sense to combine the two. Hmmm … smells just like our Glamour traits, in that regard. Consolidation on many aspects of Mesmer traits is necessary.

That’s workable, at least. My fear was that they’d go with someone more “PC,” who might act nicer, but has zero kitten ed clue about how the class operates.