Other 80s: Any but Warrior
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
1. Balance pass all weaponsets, Utilities, Traits, and Elites. As a few quick examples, I’d:
- Get the Acro line back up to par
- Make some form of underwater equivalents to the skills we currently lose while taking a swim
- Replace the missing Ricochet on P/P #3 with something similar … that quasi-pierce Revs have sounds kitten ed workable. Hell … Why not make it a two-parter, where part 1 is an evade, part 2 is a bullet-flurry. (For ideas, look at the crap Grammaton Clerics pull in Equilibrium.)
- Make Traps something Thieves can be frigging proud to use, with or without Runes of the Trapper. No class should have functionality buried behind a freaking Runeset. Eff that noise.
2. (This goes for profession-based health, in general)
- The hp brackets are too far apart. I’d put low-health as 12.5k, medium at 15k, high at 17.5k. This would help Thief to get somewhat caught up on the hp lost from removing Vitality from the Acrobatics line.
But, that’s just my couple of coppers. /shrug
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
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Zero, you are That Dude. Now, hopefully this version pulls a Caithe, and doesn’t get Revealed.
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
Senpai noticing Thieves is only the first step. Next, Senpai has to actually accept Thieves.
As for RedSpectrum’s comment … I think the exact same thing.
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
Kitten. As much as I still hate the nuking of Acro and P/P, I must say this Spec doesn’t look half so terribad. Although, it still feels like being paygated to get a proper stealthless
evader spec …
Those Dodge GMs, tho. kitten.
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
You don’t have Asura Thieves? Such heresy, I say!
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
I’m still hellaciously offended by how bad Acrobatics got gutted.
Frankly, we should not have to paywall ourselves, just to get an acceptable evade/stealthless sustain setup. Which is precisely what you are doing, buying HoT on the hopes that the “Elite” spec will have such things. Frankly, the base Thief should have kept what it had, and then one could have built the Elite’s traitline to complement the pre-existing stealthless/heavy evade playstyle.
That’s just insane, especially when you consider that Thief’s main forms of defense have always been: Stealth, Mobility, and/or (depending on build) Blinds.
But, this is the kind of logic that is extant within a game company that nerfs Vigor and Endurance-refilling Traits because (in a game that is supposedly an “active” combat system!) folk were “dodging too much.”
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
I’d venture it’s going to be more about the control conditions, and perhaps a small amount of what Gray refers to “multiplier” conditions.
Don’t get me wrong, a good swift whack to the temple could def count as a “Confusion” hit, but we see how leery ANet is about tossing a lot of Confusion on classes. (To wit, Mesmer losing Confusing Combatants before the last “big” patch … cause a 33% chance of one stack on a critical hit is “too much…”)
With that in mind, I fully expect Cripple/Knockdown(or Knockback), with a side order of Stun or Weakness. But, that’s just my two coppers.
Now, something that could help Thief on Damaging Conditions? Anet needs to hop to attention, and do a proper Venoms rework. That, and decent Trickery investment could offer some interesting options to play with.
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
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My only concern with the name, is that it’ll look a lot better if they keep it one word.
Conversely, Dragonhunter would have looked better as two.
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
If Anet gives Mesmer a mainhand dagger before a mainhand pistol, I will riot.
(Holds up a pitchfork)
No crap. How long have folk on here been begging for MH Pistol?
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
You just know who came up with that name, folks …
#HighConcept #PurityOfPistols
The worst part is: It’s probably going to be the reverse of how they did Dragonhunter … make a name that would be best as one word into two.
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
it wouldnt be staff it would be offhand hammer
Kitten, now I have to decide between Team GS and Team Offhand Hammer
;) Go with team GS, and be part of the master race (Guards, Warriors, and now Reapers).
You forgot the other -and mad stylish- member of Team Greatsword. Y’know, Mesmers?
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
As a P/P Thief, a Gunslinging-noStealth-motherkitten … what do I want?
- I would like my Acrobatics trait tree -as a whole!- to keep proper pace with & be an equivalent form of defense to Shadow Arts
- I would like some attention paid to the fact that our -oh so fun!- Dual Pistols have been crapped on, in an effort to rein in D/P and P/D.
- I want Venoms reworked into something Thieves can love and take pride in.
- I want the exact same for Traps, and Thief skill use underwater. Let’s be honest here, at some point, ANet’s going to make us fight Bubbles … and Thieves are underequipped for that battle.
- I absolutely want Thieves to have a Dev like Robert Gee, who not only has interesting ideas for improving the class, but can actually coordinate with, and -when it’s actually a good idea- can honestly listen to the folks who love the Profession, and simply want to see it perform at its best.
Now, can Thieves acquire some of these (reasonable) gains?
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- Chaos (60%)
- Domination (40%)
I’m not surprised, considering I started as a full condition Mesmer, and can’t get enough of the Powers of Mindkitten.
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
Nerfed Before Release.
or …
Tyrian Time Lord
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
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Heh. Funny how they say the man’s ruined the class … but meanwhile, he’s shown himself at least willing to work with players on things. Gravity Well, for instance. Now, I’m wondering if the man can convince his bosses to let us get Confusing Combatants back (and maybe a MH Pistol for baseline Mesmers?)
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
I agree there. Hell, the original talk about adding an F2 to Thief almost got me hyped … then I realised it was more QoL than an actual change. Hell, how hard would it be to make multiple Steal slots? Sure, we’d have to alter skill strength, but imagine the tactical opportunities.
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
#teampistols for lyfe.
well, it makes no sense for the elite spec, but I can get behind this in general.
You take away my pistols over my dead Asuran body.
In all seriousness, I’m rapidly starting to think two things:
- Thief spec’ll be last revealed. Cause, the Six forbid Thief goes before Warrior
- They’ll troll all sides of the debate, and give Thieves a Scepter. Cause, y’know, #Anet Logic!
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
Honestly, with #Anet Logic? All our thread are belong to Dev, and they’ll give Thief a freakin Scepter. Frankly, whatever it is, I just want it to not suck golfballs through gardenhoses.
Although, yes – a part assault rifle/scythe crossbreed is just pretty darned cool.
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
Let me tell you, I’d sacrifice Quaggans for my own Crescent Rose. Even Quaggan calves. /holds up a dagger
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
Too bad they’re not about making new weapons (atm, if ever). I could really get behind a Whip.
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
^ Vagabond would be a cool name for a melee staff thief, by the way.
Knowing the creative geniuses over @ Anet, they will undoubtedly name it something like the:
Staffholder (low high concept)
or
Dragonstalker (high concept)
or
Dragonstaffthumper (super high concept)
or
Dragonshadower (ultra high concept)
or
Purity of Pistols Defender (so high concept no mortal will being to understand this)
Let’s not give ’em ideas, Odyssey. Especially not that last one.
As for somewhat serious name options, I dig Vagabond. Ruffian could also work out, I would think
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
One could hope, Seabreeze. Hell, give us that as a freakin skillshot.
Also, if SB weren’t the ranged “damage” condi weapon, I’d be all over P/P with some kind of condition “specialty” ammunition. (You can kinda do that already with Venoms … but with P/P’s lack of mobility or inbuilt stealth, you’re giving up a good chunk of defense for that trick.)
Hell, which Dev do we need to bribe for mercury-capped bullets around here?
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
Anyway, I can see the … concerns with GW being a bit “troublesome” in its initial state.
However, an “Elite” skill -arguably- should be pretty darn potent … heck, a lack of said potency is what makes many players have heated debates on their class forums.
Frankly, I’ve seen ideas in this thread that are probably better than most of what I could conjure up, mentally. With that in mind, I’d politely request that some form of pull be re-added to the skill. When I see the words “Gravity Well,” I immediately think that the caster’s effectively created a localized black hole. Ergo, pull is necessary.
Now, if the amount of pull was the biggest issue, then by all means lower it, but it needs to be there. But that’s just my opinion.
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
So, someone has to fix the forum bug, methinks?
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
The only problem then, is that you effectively paywall the hell out of the improvements to the weaponset. And, honestly, at ~$50 for HoT, and an unknown amount of non-Specialization content … HoT’s already looking -arguably- a tad bit pricey.
I’d rather see improvements on current weapons/skills exist on their own, and let the HoT stuff be its own -good, but not necessary- thing
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
If anyone else wants to actually discussion aspects of ricochet and the future of p/p, I’ll be here, waiting to express my opinion as I see fit.
(raises hand)
I still want to discuss Ricochet and the future of dual pistols.
I’d also like to hear your opinion on my post at the top of this page (the #gunslingers4life one). I think it got kinda buried in the sudden flame war.
Oh, I’m always wanting to discuss the Pistols. The ideas thrown about in regards to replacing “bounce” with “pierce” could work, imho. (Although, as I’ve said before … you’d think the game’s “tricky” fighter could get away with bouncing bullets off of target “A” to hit “B” …)
Also, as far as making P/P it’s own set, I want to say Sir Vincent’s been on that crusade for a while, for both P/P and D/D. I can also get behind that idea, since all ANet’d have to do then would be to balance the two sets separately of other Thief weaponry.
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
We won’t discuss the neutering of Acrobatics. My main “go-to” build was P/P and S/P.
I used the everloving hell outta Acro. #AnetLogic
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
Best solution? Disable thief character creation and save new players the heartache of never excelling as a master of the shadows.
Then give the remaining thief players 50 gold if they delete their thief character(s) and only then will the thief haters leave us alone
Haters gonna hate. You could make Thief completely stealth-less … folk’d still cry about something.
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
Reaper. All of their Chill access, plus a Chronomancer’s Slow application? Especially when you assume that the other 8 are “baddies.” They’re getting bloody well wrecked.
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
I’d be up for reverting the boon-steal back to 2 on Larcenous. Hell, not like they didn’t change how boons interact and stack since that time. Why not revisit Larcenous?
As for the split functionality, it’s been so long that folk are (arguably) adapted to it, and changing FS/LS back to just FS would just screw with people. Not to mention how the original FS targeting was … ew.
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
Argh! I’m tired of the thief elite specialization being stealthed for so long! Can someone use a reveal skill already so we can all see it?
Heh. Tell me about it. I’m quite concerned with the Thief spec, especially what with the beatings taken by the class and certain weaponsets/traits. Also, could we finally get good Traps? Sheesh.
Honestly, I’m almost expecting Mantras at this point … especially if Thief gets the melee-Staff. Kind of a “Monk/Martial-Artist” feel?
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
I went for Sylvari, personally. What other race can glow to match their illusions?
(Although, had I known how amusing Asura emotes were then … things mighta been quite different.)
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
For WvW? I’d probably go with one Lockdown and one Condi-spec.
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
Asura master race
Indeed. My asura thief has some of my favorite animations. (P/P and S/P)
Grand Sovereign 4 Life.
Although, I can see the argument for non-Asura Thieves. Asura just have mostly fun animations and emotes. (Although, Rush on an Asura Warrior sucks absolute kitten).
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
The problem with this kinda thread, is that there are just too many Mesmer players who
can be mentioned. Especially when one goes into different areas of the game.
One of those Catch-22 situations, tbh.
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
I’d agree on unnerfing Feline Grace, and at least looking at Shadow’s Embrace again. Hell, I’m also all for finally closing the divide between Shadows Arts and Acrobatics, as far as which has (overall) more desirable/powerful options.
It seems like this is ANet Thief Logic:
- Design a class that relies on either stealth and/or maneuverability/evasion to survive.
- Nerf either of those survival tools based on (mainly PvP, but also some WvW) QQ.
- Wonder why Thief players are frigging miffed.
- Restart the cycle.
This is rather illogical, when one considers how much defensive Boon access (sans Consume Plasma or lucky Boon-swipes) a Thief has. It’s not as if we’re dealing with a class that has a lot of Prot/Aegis going on. Let alone a whopping buttload of health …
Another problem, of course, is how they … “adjust” classes and abilities thereof. The game in general could benefit from more “fine-tuned” balancing. Manipulate a variable by 10-15%, instead of chopping it in half (or conversely doubling it). But, how long has that kind of logic been asked for, and not only from Thieves?
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
I have entomophobia that’s why I hate fighting mesmers, let alone joining their bandwagon. Lol
That is so funny, cuz before the patch, thief not only love but would make an effort to find & kill mesmers. How the roles have change.
I still maintain that Thieves and Mesmers, being the two Lyssa-addict professions, should simply team up and murk the everloving kitten out of everyone else. But who ever listens to lil’ old me?
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
Heh. Who was it who wanted to turn Ricochet into a cone-shaped AoE? Between that, and some form of mobility on the set (mayhap that AoE, and a side-step or John Woo film-style dodge move), that could be an interesting replacement.
Although, reworking the set entire is also (arguably) doable. At least then, we could see a whole “gunslinger” setup, designed from the ground up for tricksy bullet-hell fun.
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
Honestly, I think they [ANet] may wish to look into shrinking the health-pool gap a bit.
- Currently, low-health starts ~10k, medium ~15k, high ~18k.
- This was from before they removed stat boosts from trait lines.
- Would not a more logical setup be: 12-12.5k, 15k, 18k? At least that would help the low-health classes even out a bit. As is, one can argue that a 5k gap from low to medium, followed by merely 3k separating medium from high … was unbalanced by default.
uhm, the lowest you can have with the thief is 12k… just fyi
I think the talking about core health(the one w/o gear)
I was, actually. Which is an even bigger problem now that stats no longer come from traits. A max-Acro Thief was gaining around 3k more, before the last “big” patch.
Not to mention, everyone is tossing higher damage around, lately.
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
Honestly, I think they [ANet] may wish to look into shrinking the health-pool gap a bit.
- Currently, low-health starts ~10k, medium ~15k, high ~18k.
- This was from before they removed stat boosts from trait lines.
- Would not a more logical setup be: 12-12.5k, 15k, 18k? At least that would help the low-health classes even out a bit. As is, one can argue that a 5k gap from low to medium, followed by merely 3k separating medium from high … was unbalanced by default.
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
I’m just going to point out one thing with your “SB for AoE” argument, Ghotistyx.
Namely, that it’s known fact that ANet’s spent the past few years crapping down SB’s throat. Hell, I know I’m not the only one who remembers how the range on Cluster Bomb used to be, for instance.
Here’s what ticks folks off, IMO:
- With the amount of nerfs SB’s eaten, it’s mainly used for the mobility offered by Infiltrator’s Arrow.
- Richochet not only allowed a bit more AoE for P/P, it could (randomly) help with controlling enemy groups.
- There’s the classic argument that – for certain Thieves, SB just doesn’t fit their style.
- P/P was already considered a “niche” weaponset as is, due to its absolute lack of either escape or stealth options inherent to the set.
So, why further nerf an already “niche” weaponset?
- If it’s a matter of RNG, how hard would it have been to only allow “X” number of bounces?
- As for weapon “purity,” I and others have pointed out how illogical that argument is to make, considering that a bullet would hold up to ricocheting better than an arrow.
- “Too powerful” is honestly the only part of the given argument that is even remotely sustainable, and that could have been number/skill adjusted, instead of hacked off at the metaphorical knees.
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
We’d be at least a “feasible” condi PvE spec, if:
- Duelist’s Discipline starts to work, finally.
- Confusing Combatants (redux) gets added in. Seriously, you remove a Trait before the patch even goes live?!
- MtD gets unnerfed. Ridiculous to shaft Mesmers on that, with how well other condi specs are currently performing.
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
Psssh, Mesmer’s already been nerfed, Tsin. Hell, Anet removed Confusing Combatants before we even had a chance to play with the new version. Let alone the gutting of MtD, the day of the patch. Or how bad they whacked Chaotic Dampening.
#Anet Logic
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
I can sign on with this idea. In a “perfect” world, you’d actually want MW/CoF to have the same C/D. After all, one of the two is going to be pretty much tickle-bait in its “opposite” build. Hell, if it were up to me … Mesmer’d have selectable F1/F2 shatters.
Create another power option (to replace CoF), and another condi one (in lieu of MW).
But, that’s just my 2 coppers.
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
So IMO, remove any and all stealth-duration/-availability modifying traits entirely, then rebalance baseline trait a bit. Not much, stealth should not be a crucial mechanic for no one. Not thieves, not mesmers, not warriors or elementalists.
Ironically enough, the recent changes to Acrobatics can be argued to make stealth more crucial on Thieves. Meanwhile, certain Thief players (myself included) have
always wanted to see the divide between Shadow Arts and Acrobatics closed.
Go figure. Anet logic.
Now, as for the actual subject here? Here’s the truth in my eyes:
- Folk are always going to have “concerns” regarding stealth in games.
- Other folk love the “sneaky” archetype
- MMO makers probably aren’t going to stop coding some kind of stealth into their games.
- I’d personally say PU is fine. Sure, the durations are pretty hectic now … but look at some of the base durations on Mesmer stealth abilities. For example, Veil and MI are pretty darned low-duration for their cooldowns. Especially Veil.
Not to mention that the boons got watered down months ago.
(As an aside, I still think it’s pretty bonkers that our “Elite” stealth on Mesmers has an actual target limit; while Veil’s utility self can cloak whole posses … WTKitten?)
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
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Ironically, I’ve noticed the same. Not that you’ll hear me complaining … ‘tis bl.oody good that DE’s seeming more of an “option” than a “take me, or die.”
So, TyPin … you Chronomancer, you. Did you see this happening?
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
Staff/Scepter/Focus has been my “main” set for months. Although, the bleeds from the new Pistol are tempting … so very tempting.
As for Shield, depends on its lockdown and/or condi applications. But, kittenit … I still want my MH Pistol. And sharpish, might I add? :P
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
Works for me, tbh. At least it finally “mimics” stuff.
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
I’m surprised with the amount of QoL stuff from this patch, that Necros don’t have this already.
Consider yourself +1’d
Other 80s: Any but Warrior