Guild Wars 2

I myself hoped they’d finally plant some solid condi-clear/sustain options in Acrobatics.
I’ve said for months that folk wonder why Thieves go heavy SA? Hell, they’re rather well
pushed into doing so. Needless to say, I’d like to see some love for stealthless builds and frigging P/P.

There are Thieves who aren’t female Asura? Seriously, though, they’re perfect. Although, I could see an Ash Charr rockin out.

As for Guardian? I ‘ve run Sylvari and Charr Guards. The Charr’s still around, and repping Iron Legion.

Eh. I would’ve voted for Confusion … y’know, the “signature” Mesmer Condition? But, that’s just me. I also would have not tossed it on the first part of the AA chain. /shrug
Then again, my “Scepter Wishlist” was simply speeding up the AA chain and Confusing Images.

Meh. The pathing is what ticks me off the most. And yes, pathing is an enemy to professions in general. That’s also why one of my main contentions in this thread is that the “tooltip” fix without one for “pathing” is frigging harsh. That’s also why I’ve said for months that the LoS implementation in GW2 should have never been tossed in as a global skill requirement, until it worked better overall. Mes and clones, Thieves and Shadowsteps, etc … all get done dirt because of this issue.
As for a skill fix? Hell, just plop the clone at the target … GS and Scepter prove that “at-target” clones are plenty doable. Then Swap could pop you in the enemy’s face, and the clone back a-ways. But even that’s a fix of “symptom,” and not “disease.”
Fix pathing, or relax on LoS a bit until pathing can be fixed. /shrug

Lifestealer.4910:

Acrobatic needs buff?.. never faced an s/d thief in pvp have u?.. , its getting nerfed this patch for good reasons.

Acrobatics needs a buff in the sense of condi-clear/sustain options. You’re confusing that with straight-off Evasion. And Evasion is doing reasonably well, although I’d not say well enough to need more Nerfbat to the face. My point was, that if Thieves could use either Shadow Arts or Acrobatics to handle their condi-clear and/or passive heal options, you’d most likely see a lot less SA Thieves running around.

Mayama.1854:

Condition are meant to be the thieves weak spot, similar to engineers and warriors (well warriors seem to get away with everything nowadays).

I’d argue that low base health and minimal access to defensive boons are plenty of weakness. After all, how fast does a glass Thief melt?

Staff’s only considered a “caster” weapon in GW2 because that’s all ANet’s coded it for, at this time. Melee Staff is a darned viable idea, regardless. Another that can get a fair pro-Thief argument is honestly Mace (under the guise of a sap/billy club-type weapon.)
I could also see OH Torch, as a firebug’s weapon of choice.

I stuck with Melandru, since I generally run a evade/gunslinger setup. Although, I’ve been tempted to try P/P condi, and would most likely plop Antitoxin on that setup.
I figure, if I’m going to be visible, I’d best make it plenty hard for someone to keep cripple/immob on my behind.

We can say the same about Rangers, as well. Hell, I run one on occasion … and even with the traits being all over the place, and pet AI sucking golf balls through a garden hose, kills can indeed be had. Here’s the thing, honestly. The main reason you see so many Mesmers ticked about class bugs comes down to how mishandled the extant ones have been. Every class has its bug problems, sure. But in the Mesmer’s case, clone-related bugs are murderous, considering that clones are the Mesmer’s class resource.

It’d be like Initiative regain being completely snarfed under (insert condition here), but “workable” elsewhere. Sure, you can still adapt around it, but you’re going to get occasionally well-and-truly mauled because of it. /shrug

Folk ask for a reversion, because they’re rather convinced that ANet can’t fix the actual pathing issues, NinjaEd. Hell, can you blame ‘em, with some of the wackiness that happens on Shadowstep pathing? Basically, the LoS/Pathing in this game should’ve never been greenlighted as it currently is. It’s one thing to have LoS that allows you to zone-control the enemy’s attack to miss you, it’s another entire to have to mentally calculate whether your next “pathed” skill will even work >_<

Hell, initiative is pretty fine as is, considering that a Thief can easily burn past the entire bar in a few seconds, if they’re careless about their attacks.
Now, as for the SA bit, I’ve been saying for months that ANet needed to start putting more condi-clear and sustain options into Acrobatics line. Mainly because of how over-weighted current SA is for Thief defense, especially when you consider the profession’s near absolute lack of defensive Boons/Stability.
As for the idea of making Stealth less constant of an effect; like scerevisiae mentions? It could work, but that would be even more of a reason to start adding condition clear and sustain to Acrobatics and/or utilities.

Currently Traveler (PvE/WvW). If speed were no concern: I’d roll either Antitoxin or current Perplex for pure condi, prolly Vampire for power. (More escape, on a Mesmer? Yes, please.)

That’s the tradeoff for Staff’s defense and overall utility, Chaos. As much as I’m a “buff > nerfs” kind of guy, the only things Staff could truly use as “buffs” would be reversions of the downgrades on C. Armor/Storm. If Staff had GS’ ability to nuke on top of even its current functionality, it’d be a broken mofo.
As for the weapon combo itself? Hell yes, it’s better at close/medium range. WoC boon bounces, Warden (who I really want to see reverted to before they “fixed” him), C Storm procs/Armor combos … tons of fun.

Ah. the great WvW Confusion Debacle. A favorite rant of mine, tbh. Screwball thing is:
They could have knocked Glamour down without completely neutering it…

• First, Confusing Enchantments and it’s (lack of a) target limit was the big bad. This could have been handled by either; 1.) giving it one, or 2.)putting the Trait up to GM,
  which would have at least made it a very harsh sacrifice to possess.
• Confusion damage could have been dropped by 25-33% of what it started as in WvW.
  This would have made the damage less “OP” and more of a tactical strike. But, Mesmers don’t seem to get damage “shaves,” now do they? So, hello there, -50% damage chainsaw.
• Blinding Befuddlement gaining an ICD was, and still is, absolutely silly. It’s not as Mesmer’s packing OP amounts of Blind, for crying out loud.

The funniest parts of the Debacle’s aftermath?

• Runes of Perplexity. Sure, most of our guys used ’em too … but really? A runeset that allows for nastier Confusion stacking and duration than even Glamourbombers packed? And for any high-Interrupt profession, to boot.
• Hmmm. Considering that ANet’s done some work to add more Interrupt to Mesmers’ toolkits: How is it that the only known Confusion-on-Interrupt Trait is a Warrior Trait? Hi there, Distracting Strikes. Hell, weren’t Mesmers supposed to be the Confusion pimps?
  (To be fair, this kind of bleedover doesn’t just nail Mesmers. Necro can make similar arguments, RE: Torment. But still, it does sting.)

Well, Kadj. My issues in this situation are the same as they are in general. Namely that it really does seem that these folks take a dog’s age to modify things that -if modification were needed- should’ve honestly been handled quite some time ago. Sometimes GW2 does feel like the past couple of years were an extended beta. As for your listed points?

1. I’d argue that it is a matter of timing. Hell, when you’ve been stuck working around an ostensibly “broken” skill for this much time, and there’s a sudden “incoming fix” or alteration, it does make a body start to wonder. Especially when other things have been underperforming for the same amount of time (hello, Curtain Swiftness), yet have not been addressed.
2. Trusting these gents and ladies, RE: functionality being added -instead of being removed- comes down to the known track record of how many Mesmer bugs and abilities are addressed. The paranoia comes from what many of our side of the fence have seen, up until this point in time.
3. Here, you and I completely agree. I’ve said for quite some time that there’s a certain amount of Stockholm Syndrome going around in Mesmer-land. It’s almost as if, gods forbid the profession sees any potential boost … some of our guys will almost instinctively expect a nerf, or something. Although, with the knowledge of issues #1 and 2, there’s only so far I can really blame anyone.

Not to mention, that as far as leaked information, there’s always a chance that what we read is completely, or partially wrong. However, there’s also a shot of full-on mistruth, as well. I know I’m not the only Mes player who remembers a certain GM that wasn’t supposed to get put in with an ICD, and did. YMMV.

No, tii. Blinding Befuddlement needs un-nerfed. ICD on that skill was always stupid, especially when Mesmer isn’t the king of Blind application. As for Vuln, that simply strengthens physical damage, so I’d hope they weren’t so foolish as to place it on a weapon they want to make more condi-focused.

As for what I think their Scepter “buff” will be:

• I don’t see (damage) condis on AA, considering they’ve (months back) mentioned wanting to get away from condi-spam on autos. I could see the AA chain sped up a bit, and/or a non-damaging condition added in. I’d personally hope for Weakness or Blind, but YMMV.
• Nothing really done to the block. As is, it can be at least argued as a skillshot, considering that if the enemy’s not dumb/has crappy graphics … it can be avoided
• I could see a speed increase on the Confusing Images channel. Failing that, one would at least hope for a widening of the beam’s path.

Meh. Here’s my (most likely NEVER happening!) “Wish List.”

• You know that IE, that was supposed to be fixed months ago? Yes, that one. It finally works.
• The Ninja’d-in-BS ICD on Triumphant Distortion, that ANet’s guys said wasn’t going to be part of the skill? Gone.
• Warden is reverted to what it was before all the unwanted “fixes.”
• Disruptor’s is either: reworked to be worth a darn, or replaced
• MtD gets a similar setup to its Confusion-cousin, namely that one of the Shatters applies extra stacks, compared to the other 3. (I’d hope for Wrack or Diversion, seeing as Cry is the “extra stacker” for Confusion … why be redundant?)
• Blinding Befuddlement is finally unnerfed.
• Scepter AA and Confusing Images are sped up somewhat. They freaking need it.
• And finally … the Devs take a wee bit of advice, and actually start maining 1 class apiece, so that they can at least collectively know what potential havoc some of
  their “changes” cause. No more laughter and comments of “purple cheese,” TYVM.

I’m not surprised. It’s known they do the exact opposite of what any forum-active player asks. Eles wanted more in-built survivability options … they got a Water GM that makes outgoing heals better. Mesmers wanted bug fixes, and a bit less AI-fest … they get a busted Warden, mangled ILeap, and altered Mimic. Honestly, I’m glad I finally got TERA working again. Not a perfectly balanced game, but the combat system is pretty darn fun. Not to mention, some of the next gen MMOs (Bless, Black Desert, ArcheAge, and arguably EQN) don’t look half-bad.
If nothing else, I’ve got other options to wait out ANet’s abysmally slow balancing. /shrug

Go figure. And I’ve said over the months that a modded version of how Decoy works could potentially help Thieves with Last Refuge issues. I feel soooo conflicted right now

Yamsandjams.3267:

I wonder which will occur first: Hobosack removal, or a working search function for the forums.

I’d bet on Hobosacks, tbh. At least there was some talk about that … what’s been said about the missing search function?

I’m surprised this question hasn’t been answered already. Here’s the raw deal:

• Mesmer used to be hella effective in zergs

The problems now are that -without the Glamour damage of a couple years back- we’re stuck with sub-par damage/tagging ability. Illusions tend to melt fast as all Hades inside the enemy blob. Also, while ANet did in fact make certain Mantras AoE, the radius of effect is so small that you practically have to hump your associates’ leg to get them affected.

Unfortunately, as it stands, Mesmer IS a support class in zerg combat.

However, for solo work or small (5-10 man) runs, the weak points of shatter are far less pronounced, and you’re more likely to be able to land a well-timed cleanse or stability Mantra on your team. Chaos Storm for boons is also workable then.

Nothing … that we know of. I’m calling at least one stealth-nerf inside of a week.

Why do I keep playing Mesmer? That’s simple as hell to answer. Mesmer brought me here, period. I only started other classes once I’d gone 80 Mes.

Temporal Storm
Seriously. Imagine a series of purple comet/meteor effects slamming down on fools in the vicinity. Hell, make ’em shatter on impact, too.

Psionic Blade
Who doesn’t want a purple FGS?

Maybe Hobosacks are actually servants of/related to Bubbles. Hell, they look like something vomited forth from the deeps beneath …

I personally wouldn’t “drop” anything. However, I definitely support reworks for the following:

• Ranger – Pet AI. Sorry, ANet, but your guys are still trying to get this to work, 2 years in. Why not just go for a “pet optional” setup? You can still use the BM line, for those who don’t mind running around like a Pokemon Master.

• Mesmer – Needs a whopping buttload of bugfixing. Not to mention, at least some re-investment on its (arguable) specialty in “punishment” mechanics. Indeed, bring back some of the Mindgame aspect.

• Thief – Balance the class’ defensive abilities between Acrobatics and Stealth. Quit frontloading the lion’s share of Thief defense/condi cleansing into Shadow Arts. It might surprise you, but not everyone wants to roll with heavy SA … but the way things are coded now leans heavily towards doing exactly that. Also, rework Traps and Thief’s access to utilities underwater.

• General – Balance pass on class weaponry. NO weapon should be considered “unusable,” as opposed to simply not being the “optimal” choice for “Situation X.”
  Once that’s handles, then we can work on new weapons/class, and utilities or elites.
  Also, enough of trying to balance the game so heavily on PvP logic. This has obviously NOT worked out. You want a (potential) ESport so badly, then skill-split already.

silentnight warrior.2714:

You are wrong. Mesmer is the ONLY profession in the game who avoided to be nerfed because ANet listened mesmers.

The trait DE was anounced to be nerfed but ANet didn’t go ahead with it based on mesmers feedback.

Maybe because they re-ran the numbers and realized exactly how bad that change would’ve shafted the majority of Mesmer builds? Don’t get me wrong, I’d be all for changing DE … but not unless baseline clone generation was modified to take that Trait’s slack.
(Ironically enough, that nerf -had it have gone through- would do nothing but increase the number of Phantasm Mesmers you see running around. Thus leading to even more topics like this, RE: Mesmer and “passive” sources of damage.)

Also, consider that the one time ANet devs “listened” to Mesmer players worth a kitten. Ask Mesmer forumers about the Warden change, see what you come up with.
Let alone how much craziness had to get unleashed to fix Distortion, not so long ago …

After Mesmer:
1.) Evasion or Trickery-specced P/P Thief.
2.) Power or Hybrid Ele (Usually Staff or ?/D)
3.) Engi (power turrets(or gadgets)/rifle; condi P/? and kits)
4.) Condi BM Ranger (dual Axe, S/D; Jaguar main)
5.) Well- or Terrormancer Necro
6.) Condi or hybrid Guard
7.) Warr. (still need to get his behind to level 80 …)

(Basically; after running Mesmer for so kitten long, I’ve developed a love for running the ‘wierd’ class-specs. Sure, I’ll go more “meta” for dungeons, but the fun of experimentation is what keeps me logging back in. Otherwise, my usual preference in (MMO)RPGs is caster or tricky/acrobatic characters.)

Phantasmal Nerf.
“Honest, bro – I’m just a … bugfix. Yeah, that’s it.”

It’s ANet, and Mesmer as a profession. Give it a week, one of ours will find something out of order.

Man. I frigging wish those ideas could get imp’d.

Confession: I’m horrid at jumping puzzles.

If ANet are the “Gods,” then sign me up as a Maltheist.

1. Absolutely screwball pathing/ANet’s kittened-up LoS implementation.
2. “Pet” AI in general. Ironically, Mesmer has the “best” of this, but it could still be a lot better
3. Revert at least 50-60% of the nerfs the class has eaten since launch. With the game being what it is now, those artifically make a Mesmer far less that what they logically should be.

Honorable Mention:
Trait consolidation needs to happen. Seriously.

Meh. It’s kind of a hidden blessing my dualbooted win 8/manjaro hard-drive died Friday night. Since it’s a royal P.I.T.A. to install GW2 in a pure Linux system … at least I don’t get to play my main and realise exactly how bad the poor S.O.B.’s been shafted

Grimwolf.7163:

Day 693
I woke today to see that this ridiculous pack was still inexplicably affixed to my back…
I fear by now that it will never leave me. Sometimes when I rest I think I can feel it, gripping my spine and burrowing deep inside my skull.
Laughing… laughing inside my head.
Dear God, madness take me and free me from the torment of thought and knowing. Knowing that this THING is HERE. It wants something from me, but I know not what.
Is it my soul? Is this THING trying to STEAL my SOUL?!
WHY WON’T IT LEAVE ME!

I may as well add a paraphrase … ahem:

“The end is near. I hear a noise at the door, as of some immense slippery container lumbering against it. It shall not find me. God, that bag! The Hobosack! The Hobosack!”

Definitely MH Focus, MH Pistol, Whip. Hell, the second one should have already been in, tbh. Also, if ANet’s going to keep kittening on underwater combat/weaponry … I’d like some land-spear.

Frankly, Dei Veien:
If (once?) PU gets nerfed, the whinging horde will simply find something else to hate about Mesmers. If a mere nerf were enough to shut fools up, we’d have been frigging well set after the WvW Confusion Debacle.

As for the OP’s question; I feel like a bleeding Investigator. Namely because with every patch, we’ve got to go over Mesmer Traits and Skills with a fine-toothed comb, just to see what ANet managed to shaft the class out of this time…

Mesmer and the look of Sylvari are what brought me to GW2 in the first place. So, yes.
However, with how this class gets crapped on, I would have picked a different map completion toon, tbh.

I had this happen on my Mesmer yesterday. Go figure, and here I thought it was just some random convergence of weird events. I’m just glad it happened after killing the local mobs.

I’ll just re-add a suggestion I made in a similar thread for the Guardian forums:

• Considering that a lot of the class’ abilities relate to Fire and Light, perhaps a method of Light-based condi damage? Could put it in the Radiance line, for instance.

I will admit, that I had not considered Bleed in the original post. One could argue it from the weapons end, or the “Flagellant” angle. One could also play around further with the Burn situation. Perhaps a Trait that:

• Inflict Cripple when you apply Burning.

Could help out a bit, I would think.

It’s not even about mere “pvp potential,” blitzkrieg. These issues affect any area of game, period. As far as nerf-to-buff ratio, that’s not even the main point; fact is, even more than nerfs, the sheer sodding amount of UNFIXED BUGS drives folks batty.
Hell, if you honestly run Mesmer yourself, don’t you actually want to see the class functioning more efficiently?

However, Lanfear. The reason many consider the ILeap fix a net “nerf” is simple. Namely, that the base pathing mechanics of the skill have been wonky from word go. With that in mind, plus the recent change, the skill’s effectiveness (which was not epic, but was at least workable) has eaten a net decrease.
Then you also need to keep in mind the simmering disgust that existed prior to that patch. Hell, the class doesn’t have a bug list, it has a Bug-cyclopedia. And certain fixes/buffs that were promised last “balance” patch (Illusionary Elasticity working on clones, IWarden back to spec, and Triumphant Distortion without an ICD … just as a few examples) have never materialized.
I’m willing to wager, that if those things would have happened, you’d see less of a kitten-storm, RE: ILeap. /shrug

That’s the arguable “advantage” of a B2P MMO. Namely, if -at some point- the kicking of Mesmer in the pills reverts, and/or some of the class’ Bug-cyclopedia gets handled, one loses nothing by leaving for a while and then coming back.
Otherwise, the sense of the class being rather “neglected” is a pretty spot-on observation. Using how bad Ele used to get whacked as an example, we might see Mesmer back to snuff in (high-end) PvP within 6-12 months. But that also depends on how many more things ANet decides to “fix” on the class. By which, I use Warden and ILeap as examples …

Conditrap Ranger vs. Power Engineer.

Well, maha:
There’s just one problem with the “dueling class” classification. Namely, that 1v1 has -iirc- never been considered a balance priority in this game. With that in mind, is it so illogical to want some kind of workable aoe/group damage spec?

OTOH, if 1v1 were actually a sanctioned and balanced thing, it would then be “appropriate” to design the class around said function. Although, that would still never explain the existence (on a “Duelist” class) of:

• Veil
• Portal
• Time Warp

Just to put a few examples on the table. Honestly, as much as the “magical duelist” tagline sounds all sorts of pimptastic, it rather smashes right into a logic wall in any
fight past -say- 1v2(or 3). So, the question we should ask ourselves is:

“Precisely how do we reconcile the “stated” strengths of a Mesmer, with the reality of how the game operates?"

Ross Biddle.2367:

Sword’s just getting out of line. It needs a good nerfing to knock it back down on par with the others. Don’t want to let it get a big head or anything.

This is what’s wrong with how this game runs. Too much frigging nerfing. And, considering that you are someone who also plays a Mesmer, I simply have to question whether this is serious, or shenanigans … considering Mesmer just got a kick right in the sword-hand.
Here’s the deal, Ross. You nerf one thing, be it a weapon skill or something larger in scale, all that will do is bring another candidate forward to eat the next whack from the Nerfbat. If that weren’t the case, then Mes would’ve been “safe” after the WvW Confusion Debacle, and Thief would’ve definitely gotten a rest by now.

They nerf Mesmer for the same reason they nerf Thief. Namely that certain “clueless mooks” can’t be bothered to fight a class that thrives on controlling an opponent’s movement and positioning in a fight. I suppose having to actually use some form of -ahem- tactics is too much to ask. Thus, this kind of BS won’t stop until both of Lyssa’s favorite professions equate to free lootbags … at least that’s my opinion.

With all due respect, don’t you think IS has been “worked on” enough? Hell, the bloody skill used to have infinite range on IR, just locked by the timer on when it needed used. It also used to trigger faster.
You also should consider which weapons Thieves are actually using in-meta atm. Looks like a lot of S/D in PvP from where I’m standing, thus we may wish to touch up some of the lesser-used sets, like D/D or P/P.

I’ve said this for quite some time:

Why on Earth can’t they simply code LR to work like Decoy?
Seriously, Decoy sidesteps Revealed … ergo, the ability for a “Stealth” move to do so is already extant in the codebase. So, why hasn’t this already been done?
Failing that, then simply:

Make LR a freaking Major Trait
Then, Thieves who feel they can “work around” LR can bloody well have it. And those who absolutely loathe the Trait can simply avoid it.

Meh.