Guild Wars 2

runeblade.7514:

Ananeos.4587:

runeblade.7514:

StickerHappy.8052:

Malediktus.9250:

Lol! Mesmers are still great. Great team support with portals, moa and cc.

For example this build seems to be pretty common and doing well:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Chronomancer_-_Chronophantasma_Shatter

PS: MESMERS ARE PORTAL BOTS. Every decent mesmer will have portal. It’s a curse.

Meanwhile, Warriors have nothing special. Why you still complaining?

I want 16k burst too!

And your wish is granted. You mesmers now have 16k+ burst. Anything else you want to take away from warriors?

Ooh ooh! How about our phantasms act like banners now?

runeblade.7514:

StickerHappy.8052:

Malediktus.9250:

Lol! Mesmers are still great. Great team support with portals, moa and cc.

For example this build seems to be pretty common and doing well:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Chronomancer_-_Chronophantasma_Shatter

PS: MESMERS ARE PORTAL BOTS. Every decent mesmer will have portal. It’s a curse.

Meanwhile, Warriors have nothing special. Why you still complaining?

I want 16k burst too!

I think this is a “boo hoo git gud” issue.

Yeah, that is a hack.

What if guild halls had the option that you could checkbox for other guilds to raid your guid hall? Destroying your jumping puzzles? Smash your scribing masterpieces to smithereens? Destroying your ore synthesizers?

Think about it. Now think about the possible rewards. Scribing materials. Guild experience. Of course that wouldn’t be fair to the raided guild, so they can rebuild their creations for free by pressing “f”, which grants some guild exp for every one item rebuilt.

Weaponsmiths can build turrets to keep invaders at bay. Armorsmiths can build walls and platforms to stop invaders in their tracks.

Organized guild parties. Actual guild PvP. Guild pride. Guild leaderboards. Think about it.

Were there any people around?

StickerHappy.8052:

Ananeos.4587:

Jourdelune.7456:

After reading all threads, Mesmer got a nice F5 meaning the rune of Lyssa or the rune of Leadership can be interesting to remove more conditions.

I’ve seen some people running the mirror heal with the rune of revenant (give resistances on heals)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Revenant

Well of eternity + Null field are great one after the other.

I’ll take “What are internal cooldowns for 200 please.”

Plus 2 seconds of resistance? Okay. Any decent reaper will melt you after it wears off.

Fixed that for you.

I cannot believe we are into the 4th year of gw2 and STILL NO CAPES! I know anet will put them in eventually but can you good people go the extra mile and have them function as gliders too? Thank you!

Vague Memory.2817:

Aurugal.6954:

Vague Memory.2817:

Aurugal.6954:

Vague Memory.2817:

Aurugal.6954:

Rome.7124:

Vague Memory.2817:

Unfortunately if you don’t scream and shout the devs don’t take any notice. Look at how most Warrs handled getting knocked off the top spot. They flamed and abused (breaking pretty much every forum rule with no consequences) anyone who suggested they were overstating how bad warr was for months. I even had Warrs abusing me in game for daring to suggest that the class was still more than viable on the forums. What did they get. They got buffed, while Mes got nerfed into the ground because of one dumb build. This is how the devs try to balance the game. The louder and more obnoxious you are gets results, and the more civilised and more constructive you are gets nerfed. Fact.

100% accurate.

In the end of the day, war stilll unplayable for another season while mes is still manageable. Let’s not be too biased here ^^.

You are talking nonsense. Mes doesn’t play well at the moment and is lagging behind again to where it was before. As for warr, I’m playing PvP games where they are doing well, with the exception of warrs that seem to solely rely on rifle sniping.

Am I really? Let us look at facts for a moment: mesmer had a showing at ESL war did not. Most Pro War mains such as Tarcis and Rom re-rolled a long time ago because they could not make it work while Helseth and Frostball are still able to take it to the highest level of play. Mesmer has better dueling than war, stronger utilities and a unique niche in portal and moa while war is just flat out inferior to it’s younger brother rev in every single way. You base your facts on your own experience with the game and that is the problem because to be honest unless you hit legend solo playing war you have no credibility; what I am basically implying here is that you are not good enough at this game to make that statement if it wasn’t obvious. Now, if you manage to convince the majority of war mains that hammer gs, axe shield gs war or even condi war has the slimmest chance of seeing high level play, than there is a general election in the U.S. that you could probably take by a landslide.

Take your whining and tears to the warr forum. This is the wrong place to look for sympathy after receiving buffs while mes got destroyed.

This is how simple minded you are my dear, I prefer mesmer over war I enjoy mesmer far more. I wouldn’t touch war atm if it was S tier but you know these things are probably beyond your comprehension anyways XD

By saying that, just shows how little you know. You guys are just ticked off because you held top spot in PvP for so long in gw2 and now you don’t, so you throw your toy out the pram when you don’t get your own way. Even other warrs in the PvP forum were saying it wasn’t as bad as people were stating. They just got shouted down and bullied into silence. Truth is this isn’t about not being viable it is about trying to reclaiming the top spot. So taking your whining out of here.

You mean sitting our fat kitten on the point and ignoring everything for the duration of the match? I want mesmer to do a 16k burst too.

Jourdelune.7456:

After reading all threads, Mesmer got a nice F5 meaning the rune of Lyssa or the rune of Leadership can be interesting to remove more conditions.

I’ve seen some people running the mirror heal with the rune of revenant (give resistances on heals)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Revenant

Well of eternity + Null field are great one after the other.

I’ll take “What are internal cooldowns for 200 please.”

Renny.6571:

Ithilwen.1529:

To be a Mesmer is to be underpowered. It has been so from the beginning and anet wills that it remain so.

Except for.. you know, last meta.

If you died to a bunker last season you have some serious issues.

Power shatter is a burst build. Burst != sustained damage.

Cause you can pew pew the gyro?

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

rchu.8945:

Azukas.1426:

So I guess the “sky is falling” crowd are eating crow?

There’s no crow to eat because the Mesmer proved its just not viable. Making an appearance doesnt mean it’s effective.

The discrepancy in team skill stopped the mesmer not the mesmer class.

You’ve got a hilarious double standard here. You’re saying that the mesmer’s poor performance can’t possibly indicate that mesmer is poor because the team was bad, then you turn around and say that the mesmer is clearly viable because it showed up in the tournament, despite having just claimed that you can’t tell anything about the mesmer due to the bad team. You can’t have it both ways, either it means something or it doesn’t.

Azukas.1426:

I’ll say it again. A pro team went with mesmer for a reason and didn’t consider guardian, thief, or warrior at all.

Yeah. Want to know the reason? http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Portal_Entre

That’s literally it. They chose mesmer because we have portal. Not because the class outside of portal is even remotely good.

Azukas.1426:

Our class is better off than those 3, and you literally can’t deny it. We are not trash tier. We may be at an under powered level, but we are going to have to see how our utility pans out in this new meta.

Based on what? The only team that took a mesmer got dismantled. Yes, I know, the team played badly, you’ve already mentioned it…but it’s nothing short of lunacy to use the fact that a team brought a mesmer as mesmer being viable when that team got massacred.

Until you can give an argument more intelligent than ‘but a team that got destroyed brought a mesmer so mesmer is viable’, you’ve got absolutely nothing to say.

It didn’t matter what classes Rank 55 ran against PZ….they were that much better than them. So coming to a conclusion on how well mesmer works in this meta can’t be done.

What conclusion can be made is a pro team decided to run mesmer b/c they saw something in our class. I can guarantee you that they’ve faced Rev, Rev, Necro, Ele, Engi in their scrims with the abjured (who just happened to run that comp) before the finals.

Thank You

Yeah. They saw portal. I’m not sure why you keep denying that portal is the singular reason they ran it, with moa as an honorable mention.

I’m not denying anything simply stating we don’t know because they haven’t said. You’re assuming I’m going byou facts.

Please come with facts not emotions

Everyone in this thread has been shoving facts and reason in your face, you’re just denying everything.

So why is there a divide anyway? I thought Anet was specifically against splitting pve/pvp yet Mesmer the lucky special one got one anyway.

Bunker Mesmer didn’t speak for the entire Mesmer class either, look what happened. It’s time the torch was passed down to the other classes.

MadRabbit.3179:

Palindron.1964:

MadRabbit.3179:

Chronomancer has like the best support dps wise in PvE. Post is a joke.

Guy you are SO embarrassing

The sheer fact that you can’t contest that assertion on fact alone, but rather by personal insult is what’s embarrassing. Even after the nerf to alacrity to 33%, they are still in the meta for raid and fractal groups.

At no point in this thread have you provided like anything resembling a reasonable argument to support your point of view. You have just alluded to this fact that we are all apparently aware of regardless the uselessness of the mesmer. Yet, despite we all apparently know this, majority of people disagree with you.

Chronos are not in the meta anymore for raids, no matter what people think. The math has been done a long time ago and 33% alacrity to 2 others excluding yourself with increased cds on all of your wells is too much. Get a Burnzerker instead.

For the record I say 2 other people getting alacrity, cause of the new squad priorty restriction. If you have a Chrono, a Thief, a Revenant, and a Guard and Ele, only the Guardian and the Ele will see any benefit from the alacrity gained cause the Thief is autoattacking and the Rev is also trying to upkeep Facets, therefore autoattacking. Plus the Chrono is doing kittenpoor dps, so the Chrono is excluded from the benefits as well.

2 people. Such wow. Many benefit.

You want to know why we aren’t crying on on forums anymore? Here you go.

Xyonon.3987:

Cuz it’s not about the condi part – it’s about the Mesmer. duh

So the reason I would want less condi, less dps and no hard stats increase on my team is because I would want to be in all pink instead?

Morfedel.4165:

Lalainnia.3598:

Where exactly was it proven that mesmers have trash pve dps I would think a mesmer fully buffed with 3 sword phants going would be pretty sweet on top of the fact that they can shatter now without destorying phant dps. Just curious why its always said that mesmer dps is trash still.

I personally don’t think their DPS is trash, but I do think they aren’t a DPS class. What I mean is, if they want to do some dps, they will be ok, but others will outshine them. I remember playing revenant for the first time and was just shocked at how much more damage I was doing.

But Mesmers themselves are still awesome. What we bring to the table is a lot of options no one else has. Utility. Flexibility. And arguably the best CC build in the game.

I also think they can DPS just fine. Just not top of the line.

Wrong on all accounts. The best CC build goes to venomshare thief. The best utility goes towards Engi and Ele. And if you think Mesmer is fine at the bottom of the totem pole in all accounts then I have no words for you.

This thread is hilarious.

Great point, if Anet doesn’t want to do a pvp/pve split then what the heck is this? Was this change made in a non- aoe meta?

Jackums.3496:

Mesmer has one of the lowest DPS outputs of all classes in the game.

Try Ele, Warr or Engi.

It’s not one of the lowest, it’s THE lowest.

As the title says. There is absolutley no reason why this 50% hp restriction exisits. For those who are in the dark:

Clone PvE: 4,171
Clone PvP/WvW: 2,433
Phantasm PvE: 5,821
Phantasm PvP/WvW: 3,396
Phantasmal Defender PvE: 12,476
Phantasmal Defender PvP/WvW: 7,278

THIS is the reason why your phantasms instantly die to everything in PvP, because of literally no valid reason.

Novamatrix.2569:

Ananeos.4587:

I want them to have defense stats so they don’t die immediatly to a single necro mark or a dh trap.

There are traits and skills that give illusions distortion when summoned so they wont instantly die, also you can increase their health and make their attacks stronger and faster. Its all in the build. Clones are designed to be weaker and phantasms are designed to be stronger in attacks and have higher health.

Both of them are useful in certain situations, it all relies on how you use them and do not think of them as simple AI that stand there and attack something, think of them as barriers. Stand inside the wardens, behind the defenders, keep them between you and your enemy.

You misunderstand. I want BASE stats raised. The price to pay for taking those traits are too high., and they don’t even do much to begin with.

Xyonon.3987:

Heya,

I wonder how many of you REALLY own and play a condi Mes once in a while. Also the statement “other condi professions deal more damage” is just … DUH OFC THEY DO!!! They also do if you are power, still, they DO NOT provide alacrity nor quickness, that’s still our job, also as condi! ~.~ dah…

btt: Condi Mes very viable and I can give you a build for it if you want me to. The only downside compared to power is that you lack alacrity, wich you trade for damage ofc and that you have less general buff uptime due not having shatter CDR -> have to wait for CS longer.

There are places where condi is great, for example high lv fotm bosses, but there is also the opposite, like raids or fighting trash mobs. The condi Mes suffers from the same issue every condi profession suffers aswell: No flexibility – you are unable to change traits or weapons, wich makes you weaker overall, especially as a Mesmer. Like – you’d have problems to grant your party a decent reflection uptime, but you can use mimic + feedback + CS then, tough ;3

Questions?

Greez!
- Madame Le Blanc

Why would I care about condi mes when I can just play necro?

horrendously weak and unplayable. Try a necro instead.

Mesmer trash tier confirmed.

This is just a taste of how Mesmer feels right now.

You have 50+ trans charges, use them. That’s what they are there for, and if the system aint broke it aint gonna be fixed. Do some pvp tracks.

Phy.2913:

The panel is hidden until lvl 22, but you can still get there through portals.

Isn’t LA blocked off until 32?

I want them to have defense stats so they don’t die immediatly to a single necro mark or a dh trap.

flog.3485:

@Ananeos Well as it has been explained by savacli above, your complaints just show that you haven’t understand that Mesmer is about versatility and mimic of other classes. So yeah I will keep playing it as long as I am able to run dungeon, fractals and open world with it, without having to be instantly kicked out of instances by random pugs……….. @AlexShatter I agree with you to some extent and I wasn’t trying to make a general statement why players don’t play mesmer anymore, I was just responding to Ananeos post in which he stated that he’d better transfer his ascended to elementalist because the class makes more damages. But anyway we can pretty much all agree that alacrity nerfs were wayyyyyyy overtuned -_-

A little bit of everything is not a whole. 1+1 =/= 5. The point I was trying to make was not the AMOUNT of damage ele does, but rather that ele is centered around it. Mesmer is not centered around anything, mesmer instead takes bits and pieces from other classes and tries to make that its identity but fails as a whole.

“I don’t like something so it should be removed.”

????

Novamatrix.2569:

Certain professions and build comps have the ability to stand afk in the middle of a mob zone and kill things without actually do anything.
Example, Mesmers can use Mental Defence and desparate decoy to summon illusions based on blocks and hp %. also using metaphysical rejuvination , signet of ether, & signet of inspiration to apply regeneration. Inspiration signet also applies other boons such as aegis & retaliation which help a lot.
So basically, you park the toon and go afk while all the passive traits & skills kill stuff and auto loot picks the loot up.

The question is, does this violate any kind of Terms Of Service, or is this a banable offence?

I would argue no, but you know anet….

You realize clones don’t actually do any damage right? They crit for 5.

HazyDaisy.4107:

3 words, Evolved Jungle Wurm! This event is long past needing a change. There’s 3 mastery points associated with this event alone, yet pretty much since it’s introduction people have shied away from the event and now, you scramble to even get enough people to run 1 head, that may not be the one you need. Unless you’re on a scheduled guild run, which many people don’t even know about and those that do still don’t even bother because let’s face it, it’s not really a success unless all heads die and even a scheduled run doesn’t guarantee full sucess.

Join EVOS, we personally pm all active members to let them know about an upcoming run 10 mins or so before we start the taxi.

Salvage the infused ones, toss the rest. The net gain from salvaging the normals is really small.

Please no. I don’t want a crappy app taking up most of dev time and just there for the money.

• Stealth – outclassed by thief
• High uptime on Reflects – outclassed by Guardian
• Boon distribution/extension – outclassed by Revenant
• Multiple Evades/Blocks – outclassed by Thief
• Conjured allies being its core mechanic (I like the flavor) – Guards, Necros, Eles, and Rangers have that
• Boon stripping and group condi cleanse – outclassed by Necromancer
• High availability of CC for mobs and destroying breakbars – CC on mobs?
• Group invulnerability – gone. nerfed. poof.
• Blinking/Portal shenanigans – blink is outclassed by thief, portal is good
• Cooldown manipulation (outside of Alacrity) – at the cost of running valuable utility slots

Next you’re going to bring up mantras without realizing that Thief has their own version of mantras too.

Xyonon.3987:

Ananeos.4587:

Torment is the second weakest damaging condition in the game. No.

Only for PvE. It’s fine in PvP / WvW, since either they move or they become an easy target.

Good luck killing someone with torment. /shrug

flog.3485:

Oh I tell you why: because they like it, they like the mechanisms of the class, Ananeos. And if the really reason you consider worth playing a class is how much damage you can output, I really do not understand why anyone would want to stick with Mesmer.

So what will you do when your “mechanisms” are outclassed by everything and everyone? Keep playing it stubbornly while not adapting and moving on?

Daishi.6027:

The best thing about Chrono was the frequency in which it could use skills, and was part of the primary problem core mes suffered from that’s a major reason why it was so appealing over core.

If you want to roll a mesmer to do damage this means you are devoting yourself to a spec that has to blow a ton of cooldowns setting up damage that ultimetly nets less DPS than any other damage spec, and is about as easy to avoid as 100b, all while having more steps to foil. Let’s also not forget that mesmers spend a lot of the same resources for offense as they do defense so a whiff is much more crippling compared to other specs.

There was no issue sacrificing a line of passive survivability or passive damage, for moderate boost to active defense, and moderate boost to active damage in the form of frequency.

“Heart of Thorns has seen many a chronomancer survive a killing blow and seize victory.” – Why is this a problem for mesmer to have? When Thief has historically done exactly this? (who btw doesn’t need line of sight to burst, and their “set up” is going invisible, and have more damage mitigation cooldowns when you account for initiative) Along with every iteration of bruiser Ele since old valk ammy, Engie in the current meta and old hgh in the past, Medi Guard if not team focused, among other professions and corresponding specs including rev?

Sure, Yes. BunkChrono was OP in PvP and did need a nerf. However every other mes spec did not need to suffer along with it, a good chunk of the changes in the recent patch were more than enough to tone it down without the change to alacrity. Also some of those changes would have worked in line with a-nets “surviving a killing blow thing”.

But Ok let’s say alacrity is to powerful in PvE Simple fix to that is to make 33% outgoing and 66% personal, mes keeps it’s kitten dps but at least can provide support consistently.

A-nets justification for the nerf was 66% more dps right? Well correct me if I am wrong but was this not empirically disproven?

Sounds to me like alacrity got nerfed for very little justifiable reason other than someone at a-net couldn’t down a non chronobunker mesmer and set out to nerf it to hell. Or just flat out couldn’t touch a chronobunker and decided to treat the patients cancer by killing the patent.

As per the Topic: No I did not expect A-net to make any changes as this was not a balance patch. But this mistake for one should never have been made, and I understand the frustration of the OP because this should have been hot fixed with the way current mesmer is. If there is an objective issue with the frequency of shield block and well of precog, their cooldowns just need to be nerfed to compensate for alacrity.

Anet’s justification for the nerf is that they wanted 2 or more Mesmers in the raid instead of just one spitting out boons (look how that turned out) and went as far as to say that two Mesmers would provide the 66% alacrity for the raid instead of the usual 33%, which is a complete lie.

Torment is the second weakest damaging condition in the game. No.

bearshaman.3421:

what about condi?

I read the dulfy.net guide and I know he doesn’t have the highest opinion of it, but I hear condi is really good at higher level fractals…

Dulfy is a she. Condi is terrible, not sure why people keep insisting it is good anywhere when people could just ignore you and you never scratch them.

eliroth.3869:

So you’re telling me this entire community has given up and being snide and cynical the answer? Most just post topics about maining another class or just outright not playing, and it’s the MESMER forum.

I wasn’t addressing these changes towards the developers, it’s towards the Mesmer community forums. My expectations on these changes actually happening are slim.

Before scrapper came out, everyone was speculating it was going to be called the Forge instead. Mixed reactions on the reveal but that didn’t stop people from excitedly speculating on what could happen.

Regardless, thank you for your comments.

My ideal is that mesmer should also have a certain degree of boon control just like necro but instead of cleansing it, they misplace it. Moreover, I think good-niche is much better than either extreme of meta or unused because skill use can vary from Pve, WvW, and PvP. If they can fit a role somewhere or potentially open up unique build possibilities, isn’t that enough?

http://psychcentral.com/lib/the-5-stages-of-loss-and-grief/

I really don’t understand why people still play this failure of a class.

Yup, also moved everything to my Ele and now I’m breaking the 28k dps mark. Much more squishy but I cannot believe the amount of damage I can do after getting used to my mesmer.

Azoqu.8917:

Ananeos.4587:

Let’s see now.
Well of Action: 3 secs slow, 3 seconds quickness, 30 seconds CD
Well of Recall: 3 seconds Chill, 5 seconds alacrity, 40 seconds CD
Well of Precognition: 3 pulses aegis, FORTY FIVE seconds CD

Not balanced around alacrity, sure…

You do know that Guardians would kill for what Well of Precognition is right? It’s retreat on roids.

Mesmer is not a Guardian. Additionally retreat is supposed to be used for RETREATING, as it gives quickness and you don’t have to stand in a tiny pink circle 3/4ths the size of a pvp capture point.

Andulias.9516:

Ananeos.4587:

Thaddeus.4891:

Ananeos.4587:

If Chrono shield 4 and Well of Precognition both got emergency nerfs weeks before the balance patch I expect emergency buffs to wells.

That’s debatable, that still doesn’t obligate them to do what you ask. Anet could consider wells to be good how they are now since they are in a good position in PvE and buff the mesmer in another way to make it more on par with other profession for PvP.

Well here is an incentive. Chronomancer is currently the WORST elite spec in the game, worse than Berserker. If you aren’t going to play with the wells you are, what, going to make your clones run faster when you shatter them? How is Anet going to pander to 2 character slot f2p players that have mesmer as a main?

No, absolutely disagree. Despite the nerf, Chronomancer is still the most unique and intersting elite spec that made everyone radically shift their playstyle and shed a new light on the class. That hasn’t changed.

You can say how unique and interesting and how much of a radical shift Chronomancer is but it does not change the fact that it is the weakest elite. There are eight other elite specs, choose one and we can compare the math.

PopeUrban.2578:

You’re giving arenanet too much credit.

They didn’t design the cooldown of wells, or anything, around alacrity. That’s why they had to nerf alacrity. They were far too short sighted to recognize how game breaking its effect was in a game where cooldowns are the only resource most classes, including the one that provides it.

It’s pretty much textbook Anet lack of foresight in profession and skill balance.

Let’s see now.
Well of Action: 3 secs slow, 3 seconds quickness, 30 seconds CD
Well of Recall: 3 seconds Chill, 5 seconds alacrity, 40 seconds CD
Well of Precognition: 3 pulses aegis, FORTY FIVE seconds CD

Not balanced around alacrity, sure…

Samnang.1879:

I don’t think mesmer wells need reduced cooldowns, it’s very powerful, it does a ton of damage and provide alacrity and quickness to 4 other people in the party.

• Mesmer wells do not do much damage
• Mesmer does an average of 8-9k on full berserker’s gear while every other class is dealing 27k+.
• Alacrity does not affect Thieves and Revenants whos only role is to upkeep passives and autoattack. Which is also terrible because boon/effect sharing now prioritizes your squad members instead of everyone else that might need the alacrity, so in reality you are giving alacrity to 2 other people.