ah, OK. I missed that. I’ve been inactive for about a year.
Has anyone done a newer comparison?
In the link above, bmes_ measured how long it takes to kill the Indestructible Golem 4 times with each profession. In the video below, I’ve measured how long it takes with Revenant. It takes 50 secs.
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- Edited with new video using Shiro/Glint. Also tried Shiro/Mallyx, but it was slightly slower. Using only Shiro was 59.5 sec.
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Measured from first damage to when the Golem’s health starts to regenerate, the time is exactly 11.50 seconds. Created during BETA weekend. Uploaded in 1080p/60fps.
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Posting 3 times in 3 minutes? I’m sorry, you’re not a real dungeon forum-er without FC
I haven’t been playing much the past few months and just returned for the new LS stuff (crazy, right?). I’d thought elitist drama would have quieted down in my absence, but that doesn’t seem to be the case. I’m glad it hasn’t since, as Veckna said, GoT doesn’t premiere until April.
Reading this thread, I feel Zelyhn ought to be commended for his posts. They are a pleasure to read. I’m glad he hasn’t lost his touch since our Ele-talks.
For some reason, his writing reminds me of Peter/Valentine Wiggin’s publications in Orson Scott Card’s Enderverse (dunno why that in particular came to mind – it just did).
Well you see, that can be taken offensively so I’m going to report you to modbot. Reported in the trashcan, gosh that is a new low. I should stop posting and get round to watching the legend of korra again or smth
I’m offended that you haven’t watched it yet srsly.
I second this. Legend of Korra OP.
You should be caught up on SAO II before watching Korra. There are 2 eps out atm.
My infraction shield generator is broken beyond repair. Danicia is gone, and so is the hope I had for the forum. Guys, dark days are upon us.
I’m sure I advised you against being as optimistic as you were in that dungeon forum optimism thread you started a few weeks ago (maybe a few months. I’ve been away for a while).
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Wait the new LS stuff is a dungeon?!
Compare Kasmeer to the Arah NPC’s during Lupi solo’s. There, that’s dungeon-related.
I was doing the new Living Story installment and there’s this one part where Kasmeer spams Time Warp. She used it 5+ times for me without a CD between uses. I love her.
She also spams Feedback without a CD.
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I am generally critical of Anet and its employees. Experience has taught me not to put much faith in them. However, John Smith, their economist, is one of the few exceptions. He is doing a good job.
Players like SundayTrash should: 1) learn some basic economics; and 2) look at John Smith’s post history and how the GW2 economy has changed over the last 2 years to realize that John’s competent.
What if I tell u John Smith don’t play the game, and what if I tell u John Smith might not even exist? He may just as well be a fragment of ur imagination that exist to keep u safe and reminds u of everything is going to be okay, there is no inflation.
Please, please, please, John Smith, correct this fool.
I am generally critical of Anet and its employees. Experience has taught me not to put much faith in them. However, John Smith, their economist, is one of the few exceptions. He is doing a good job.
Players like SundayTrash should: 1) learn some basic economics; and 2) look at John Smith’s post history and how the GW2 economy has changed over the last 2 years to realize that John’s competent.
I am generally critical of Anet and its employees. Experience has taught me not to put much faith in them. However, John Smith, their economist, is one of the few exceptions. He is doing a good job.
Players like SundayTrash should: 1) learn some basic economics; and 2) look at John Smith’s post history and how the GW2 economy has changed over the last 2 years to realize that John’s competent.
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Zerk Wars [Only]
- Be able to play a class other than warrior proficiently. At the moment we are looking for people who are experienced in more classes than just warrior.
What??
Too many wars in this game, so their restriction makes sense. The meta for any dungeon is a single war per party at most, so if half the members of your guild ONLY have warriors, well, there’s gonna be a problem.
You see, the meta is fine until it makes people close their minds towards new ideas. It’s all good running an optimal build, but when the meta becomes twisted to promote a mindset of ‘this is the best and if you got any new ideas, you’re wrong.’ it becomes a problem.
The meta is found by theorycrafting to maximize damage. Theorycrafters do not close their minds to any ideas – they consider every method of optimizing dmg. And if a particular theorycrafter does not consider every option, there are plenty of other theorycrafters who analyze the data of their peers and will correct errors.
If you’d done any serious theorycrafting, you would know this. You would also know that the meta changes frequently, usually in response to game updates. The fact that the meta changes in response to new information, game updates, and better strategies proves that the meta does not ignore or suppress new ideas – it incorporates them.
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Lol. Hilarious thread. +1 for the pokemon image
kitten Impact. You were perfect until that end part, quoted below:
At least, this is how it is in PvP, and probably general PvE. The confusion comes from elitist PVEers, who test builds and team compositions designed for quick dungeon completions. Each of those elitist guilds finds what they believe to be the best, and tries to both prove it with recordings and force it upon the rest of the community by declaring it “the meta”.
Edit: Actually having thought more about it, I think instead of looking for the popular build, people are now starting to look to certain players who have proven their ability in the dying/dead meta specifically to ‘create/find the next meta build’, and that once they declare it or are seen using a new build, that becomes the new meta for that class. That, I think is a daft way to think. But hey, it doesn’t really matter. If you disagree with the notion, just don’t do it, and leave the rest to sheep it up.
I mean: keep it up.
There IS a PvE meta. It does exist. For any particular dungeon path, there is an optimal party composition in respect to professions, and there are optimal builds (meaning traits, weps, gear, runes, sigils) for those professions for that particular path. These meta group comps are showcased in recorded speedruns, many of which are on gwscr.com. The meta builds used in these speedruns are published in guides on the profession subforums, YouTube, gw2guru, etc.
For non-optimal situations, such as a “p1, zerk only, ping gear or kick – no necro/engi” LFG group, meta group comps and builds still usually work, even if there is no TeamSpeak. Tactics used in these situations usually closely immitate meta gwscr tactics. Builds used in these situations are usually identicle/very similar to meta builds. And although these non-optimal runs are slower than the guild runs we record for gwscr.com, they are undoubtedly faster than a non-meta, no-particular-comp party would have been.
The only time when meta builds do not work is when party DPS is ridiculously low. Generally, if you gear-check the party for zerk, then meta-builds and group comps will work well and speed up the run. If you are the only zerker in a party of 4x PVT/clerics/magis bearbows/necros/staff guards, your meta build and gear will get you killed, and the 4 noobs in your party will be too stupid to implement or even comprehend meta tactics.
Non-Danicia red name in the dungeon forum? 0.0
Is this the Twilight Zone?
Some of those questions…. lol. There were a bunch about how you view your avatar (separate entity or extension of yourself or “you”?) and a few funny ones like “do you daydream about your avatar?” I dunno what she expects to find with this survey… That most gamers are sexually attracted to their avatars? (With 90% of GW2 avatars being human females, we already knew that. lol) That most gamers are hardcore RP’ers? (Even if the survey results indicate this, I’d say there’s some serious self-selection bias – I bet you anything that GW2 players who RP are more likely to take this survey. They’re generally “nicer” than players who don’t RP and instead play for the competition and/or theorycrafting).
Sometimes the devs on the forum make me smile…
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/My-friends-need-help/first#post4106712
lol. Love that Chris dev.
I honestly dunno wtf Guang is talking about.
Scenario 1: my party drops 4x FGS and we wall our target with fear me/scorp wire/lh 3/LoS tricks/curtain/banish, then we each do a single 4 attack, and the target’s dead. Maybe we each do a single 5 attack before the 4 and/or a 3 attack after it, but either way, the fight lasts only a few secs. In this scenario, FGS is undeniably highest DPS.
Scenario 2: longer period of time, perhaps the full 1 min that FGS lasts, or the nearly 2 mins if you pick up your 2nd FGS. What i have in mind is something like a lupi solo. Assuming your target is against a wall, FGS is high DPS for as long as you have it, even though the 4 is on a 10 sec CD and the 3 is on a 5 sec CD. What im saying is that spamming the 3, 4, and 5 attacks on CD and autoing in the meanwhile is worth it. If my target is against a wall, I’d do more DPS over that 1 or 2 min timeframe with FGS than I’d do with Lightning Whip or LH or fire-staff. Not to mention the better vuln stacking via FGS + Air 25 minor.
So I’ll ask again… wtf is Guang going on about?
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Puzzle has finished building and we now have all guild missions unlocked.
Unfortunately, I am still unable to play regularly. Thanks so much to Liahm for taking charge of things in my absence.
Its because this is anet we’re talking about. Lol
Ive got gw ESP downloaded and working, but it doesnt seem to have the same functionality as some of the tools ive seen frifox use. Is that the dps meter youre referring to here? Are you using the same version as is publicly available, frifox?
Also, back to LH dmg, coefficients, and ascended rarity… anything new since Zel’s last post in that ele thread? Or nothing concrete yet that i can use for updating real-dps for various LH builds?
They actually bring 150 Power via EA, and 170 from Strength Banner. With PS they keep group might consistently capped even during longer fights in Fractals. Then of course Discipline Banner brings 170/170 Prec./Ferocity. I believe someone on here did the post patch math recently; Warrior brings a lot of offensive buff an organized party’s DPS.
A SINGLE war does. The 2nd/3rd/4th wars are useless. You’d do better bringing multiple eles instead – this is incredibly important and something that neither you nor Swede mentioned. The 2012/13 idea of multiple wars is kittened and has been scrapped by most elite guilds (i hear even DnT has finally gotten smart and now usually runs 2x eles and 1 war in their casual runs. About time).
Something Swede didnt mention is the importance of a thief. 1 thief per group is usually beneficial, since there are parts in almost every dungeon where stealth speeds things up a lot (particularly via Black Powder + party blasts).
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This Is important to me because we have something resembling a dungeon team again.
Eh, what? … From which dark corner of impossible did this come from? Unless you think stealth changes = dungeon team…. lol
EDIT DUE TO FC: When I see a CDI in this here dungeon forum, I’ll believe it. When I see a developer, someone other than Danicia (who definitely is NOT a dev), post in this sub-forum, I’ll believe it. When I see a red name say there is a dungeon team, unambiguously (rather than “that’s doable” then not do anything), I’ll believe it. Until then, there is no dungeon team. There are simply LS personnel who occasionally stealth-change dungeons.
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Guild Puzzle is currently building. It will be available for new week’s guild missions.
Soon, I will be instituting increased rep’ing requirements. I’m not playing as much atm, but when I can be on more frequently, I will cleanse the roster of inactives and players who are unwilling to rep more often. This is intended to make group-forming for dungeons possible at times other than just reset, and to make /guild chat useful.
I am undecided whether or not to allow current [DD] members who are also members of [Ren], [Only], [IX], [DnT], or [ZERK] to stay. Perhaps I’ll create an “associated” rank or something. Membership in [Noob], the official Dungeon Forum teaching guild, will definitely be allowed.
You’re right. We need a “General LS Discussion Thread.”
Ppl not reading is annoying, yeah. As for undercutting… well, I’m guilty of that. I’d guess most sellers are. Its the economy, stupid.
Still, it’s fun in groups. The only huge complaint I have aside from noob pugs picking up my LH yet never picking up my ice bows would be that I HATE dragon’s tooth. Why can’t it just have normal ground targetting when you don’t have a target selected!? That and comet. Comet is worthless without a target selected, sadly.
I’m sorry, Miku, but judging from that comment, I have to say that you are not a good Ele. But don’t worry, you’re a great War. lol
Watch this vid for a proper pre-stack with both Dragon’s Tooth and Comet without a target. You can see I get to 18 Might solo. I recorded this in DR just now.
Edit: On the reliability note, I land DT on Flamewall every single time, and I land Comet on it 60-80% of the time. As long as you bug the camera angle all the way up, DT will always land the same distance away from you. As long as you bug the camera angle all the way down, Comet will almost always land the same distance away from you. It’s all about positioning.
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I’ve seen these too, and i have no idea why they skip tazza. You can pull her with scorp wire or arcane blast so the troop commanded doesnt aggro, then fgs her in the corner.
I also dont know why they even farm this, since the end-chest is only once per day and the big reward chests are only once per day. Doing it for only 5 champs bags and leaving before tazza doesnt seem worth it.
Everyone’s said “guard or war,” but nobody else has said ele, and i dont understand why. Maybe we have different ideas of the sort of pug group the OP is referring to. I was thinking of “p123, zerk only, ping or kick – no necro/engi” groups, where the pugs know how to might-stack, use FGS, and coordinate banners. Sometimes they know to knock bosses to walls, sometimes they dont, but it doesnt matter because i LH 3 push bosses to wall and FGS before they even get there. Which is why, in these sort of pugs, the best class to play is ele. You can pre-stack might, push to wall, and FGS all on you own, and the pugs are zerk and sometimes in meta, and they usually know how to use a FGS.
No, sorry, you cannot apply with only a Guardian. We only bring Guards for half the dungeons we do – there is no need for them in AC, CoE, CoF, or Arah. If you’ve got a Mes and Ranger you can use those for the dungeons where a Guard isnt needed (Ranger for AC/CoE and Mes for CoF/Arah), or if you’ve got an ele/thief/war you can use those, but you cannot bring your Guard into those 4 dungeons with us because there is simply no need for one. Bringing a Guard would be a DPS loss for the group.
I will be unable to log into the game for a few days/won’t be playing as much in the near future. Prospective applicants should talk to Liahm. Thanks.
The title asks for the “best overall dungeon class/build” – it doesnt say anything about fractals. For dungeons, its undeniably ele, in various specs: 30/30/10 for solo ele, and if there’s a 2nd ele in your party, one of you go 30/20/10/10/0 fire-staff, and the other ele goes 10/25/10/25/0 scepter LH (thats assuming you need vuln on crit for Fiery Rush vuln stack, since there may not be a thief in your pug).
For fractals, sure, go hammer guardian. But never use a hammer in dungeons, unless its for Banish then unequipping it and re-equipping GS.
I named a guild, not a player, not their commander.
Edit: I’ve dashed-out their name too, just in case the Anet mods decide this is bannable or something similarly ridiculous. PM me if anyone would like their actual name.
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I was commanding Boom-Boom for 6 hrs yesterday, and the mega-server we were on got the gold award 30+ times and a couple silvers too. For the latter half of that, it was just DD members 5-manning Boom, and Liahm and Leo duoing Shurak. Such a fail that even though Liahm was pinned up, nobody on our full server instance helped them out at Shurak. Impressive that they managed to duo it multiple times for Gold.
Anyway, here’s the fail: Some guild called [P—-] (dashed-out due to forum name-shaming rules) decided to pin up at Boom and they said “[P—-] members only” and they displaced me and the DD party, so we went to Wig. We got Wig down to 5% and were ready to burn when there were still 2 mins left for gold. Meanwhile, Boom’s still at 60% because those P—- guys are screwing up big time. We end up getting Bronze because the entire server has to wait for Boom, and even then, P—- cant kill him, so us DD guys have to kill Boom for them. And then the funniest thing happens: the entire server instance just eviscerates the P—- commander for displacing me. The other 4 commanders and a lot of the other players there tear that P—- commander apart for “replacing a great and experienced commander.” I have never before felt so loved ingame. Lol
And here’s the kicker: for the next round, I get Boom back and the P—- commander and his guild get Wig, and the same thing happens: the other 5 bosses are ready to burn with 2 mins left for gold, but we’re all waiting on Wig, and we end up with bronze cause the P—- guys screw up again. Then the server just explodes at P—-. Lol
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its not about speed run its about having fun my friend
I find finishing dungeons quickly to be “fun,” and it is undeniably better gold-per-hour than wasting time in dungeons by not skipping/stacking. Who are you to tell me what is “fun?” I can tell you with 100% certainty that skipping, stacking, zerk gear, and meta builds will result in a faster run. But you cannot possibly tell me that slower runs are more fun for ME.
what i have learned from this excellent experience is that stacking is for the people that are not skilled and skipping is for the lazy
Trunks, watch this vid or any of the vids on gwscr.com, then tell me all us stackers and skippers are “not skilled” and “lazy.” I assure you, you will NEVER get speed-clear times like these without stacking and skipping. Fast times like these are simply out of your reach, trunks, because you are unskilled.
30 mins v. 15
/floodControl2stronk
Dungeon forum new LFG tool? 0.o
“You’re the only warrior. Can you take banner of strength too?”
“No. I need signet for dps.”
Also, “You’re the only war, so go 4/6/0/4/0 for Empower Allies.”
“What’s that?”
People that don’t read.
People that don’t want to learn.
Guardian staff 1 against single target boss.
Random fear out of the stack.
Didn’t read LFG.
Insults me via whisper after kicking them from party for not reading lfg.
The moment where the PUG says that they know more about everything than you do and doesn’t know the tells of a mob / a skill in their bar / or what’s a thief.
This too. Although, nothing, and I mean NOTHING, is worse than a guard spamming hammer or symbols of swiftness/wrath when im might-stacking on ele. I see 6x Area Retal and I die a little inside…. then the rage errupts into /party chat.
Guardians who force me to take defensive utilities on my ele instead of allowing me to go full yolo damage mode.
Ele’s that dont might stack.
Warriors that dont banner.
ANYTHING that interferes with my fire fields. Im looking at you guardians and necro’s
THIS!!!! Omg, this this this!
“p1, exp zerks only” < I join the group and ping my ascended zerk armor, weps, and trinks < group leader says “you dont need to ping, I trust you” < we enter the dungeon < we wipe due to low DPS…
So then I say “DPS was too low. I dont think you guys are zerk. Ping your gear.” < PVT, clerics, magi’s… zzzzzz
“Fairly hardcore PvF’er.” I didnt realize what that meant until I checked your post history. 75 pages – what??? I’m probably in no position to say this, Lilith, but I think you need something better to do. Try archery – I find it very enjoyable. You could even bring a teddybear with you to the range to RP.
Edit: My bow + some random teddybear pic. Lol
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I’m sad, Lilith. You shouldn’t be guildless
I’d suggest DD, but I know you’d appreciate a /guild chat channel that people actually use, and that isn’t us atm, since ppl only rep when they’re in dungeons. 2 weeks from now, when we unlock puzzles, I’ll institute increased rep requirements, and guild chat might actually become useful then. Just something to keep in mind, if you dont find another guild before then.
And ofc, there are strict meta build requirements. Plz dont tell me your guard still uses a hammer in dungeons >.<
Yeah, it’s very annoying for Ele. You can still stack with Thief, War, Guard, Mes, Ranger though – you just stack with one wep set, then camp the other set for combat.
eg. Thief: dagger force/dagger night for combat, sword bloodlust/pistol force for stacking. Unless you need interrupts, you camp d/d for bosses, so you can keep your stacks that way without losing dmg.
Necessary weapons for each class have been updated, since Anet fixed underwater-stacking.
Nobody uses FGS on the burrows in p3. That’s ridiculous. What you do is get 2 eles, so 4 icebows, then go in teams of two. 2x Ice Storm on the 1st burrow = insta-dea. 2x Ice Storm on the 2nd burrow = insta-dead. Then on the run to the 3rd and 4th burrows at the far end on the room, Ice Storm gets off CD for everyone, so do the same thing. There is no need whatsoever for an FGS. You should have given that ele a good scolding for using FGS where he shouldn’t have, and thus depriving the group of it for the last boss.
I posted this before the change to dungeon rewards, but I think it’s still accurate, since I don’t feel like my daily tour rewards have been nerfed in any significant way.
There is obviously a disconnect between how long Anet expects dungeons to take and how long they actually take. As others have already said, the 1-time reward of gold at the end of the path, in addition to the DR effecting the 26 silver at the end, discourages doing the same path more than once per day. However, that does not prevent us farmers from making terrific cash.
Let’s look at the following dungeons I do every night, and their daily gold chests:
AC 1: 1.5g – AC 2: 1.5g – AC 3: 1.5g – CoF 1: 1g – CoF 2: 1g – CM 1: 1g – CM 3: 1g – TA up: 1g – TA fwd: 1g – SE 1: 1g – SE 3: 1g – HotW 1: 1g – CoE 1: 1g – CoE 2: 1g – CoE 3: 1g – Arah 2: 3g – Arah 3: 1.5g
That’s 17 paths, and a total of 21g from chests. Then your additional 26s * 17 = 4.42g. So you’re making 25.42g just from end-dungeon rewards. But that’s not all! I seem to be making 30-35g in cash each night, so where’s that coming from? Oh, right, there are those blue satchels that give you money bags, plus additional silver/copper from bosses/mobs.
Then you’re also getting a bunch of materials and blue/green/rare/exotic armor/weapons. I salvage the blues and greens with the infinite Copper Salvage-o-Matic, and the rares with a Mystic Salvage Kit. The exotics I either sell or salvage with a Black Lion kit, depending on the current broker price for them. My net cost of salvage kits is very close to zero, since it only costs 3c per blue/green, and because I get Mystic Forge Stones/BL kits from dailies/AP reward chests faster than I use them. Selling all the mats I get each day from drops/salvages is another 15-20g.
Then on top of all that, I happen to have half a dozen dungeon recipes. So that’s another 8g per day, just from making exotic jewelry from my daily tokens, minus 3g for the Orichalcum and listing fees, netting 5g.
In total, how much money is all this? 50-60g per daily dungeon tour.
Doing those 17 paths I listed takes about 4 hours with the guild each night, starting at reset. So I’m making 12.5 – 15g per hour, without path-selling or exploiting (unless you’re one of those “FGS is exploit!” morons), just by speedrunning. Did Anet intend this? I have no idea. All I know is that, if I were to pug these same dungeons, it would take me 8-10 hours instead, meaning I’d only be making 5 – 7.5g per hour.
Now I’ll compare this to various types of legit Arah path-selling.
You can speedrun Arah p4 is 30 mins, and sell 4 slots for 15g each, plus the 3.26g the opener gets (63.26g total). You then split that 5 ways, so 12.6g per person. However, it usually takes 15-30 mins to get 4x buyers in the party, so you’re still only making 12.6 – 16.8g per hour, only slightly higher than I make doing my nightly dungeon tour. And you can only do this once per day (maybe DnT or rT have enough buyers to do it twice or 3 times per day, but I don’t).
You used to be able to solo Arah p2 in 50 mins, but since the update, I’ve always had to call for backup at Alphard (I’m probably just a noob for not being able to solo him). Let’s assume that A) you can still solo in 50 mins, or B) whoever you call in to help at Alphard (and sometimes Lupi) doesn’t charge you. You can sell 4x slots for 6g each at the end, plus your own 3.26g (27.26g total). p2 fills faster than p4, so it’s usually full within 10-20 mins. That means 23.3 – 27.26g per hour. You can usually do this 2-3 times per day (once again, DnT or rT can probably do it a lot more each day, since they have more buyers). This is where the real money is. Did Anet intend this? Once again, I have no idea. I’d guess not. All I know is that I’d be very, very angry if they somehow prevented solo’ing by introducing something akin to the gate in CoF p1.
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