Guild Wars 2

Your dmg isn’t high enough. The 20 in Arcana is a death sentence for big numbers.

Use one of the scepter LH builds in my guide. Every one of them will do higher dmg. Link’s in my sig.

When I was updating the spreadsheet with a tab to incorporate projected Ferocity changes, I realized Scholar runes will also change. The example they used of the new Strength runes is below:

Superior Rune of Strength:
1) 25 Power
2) 10% Might Duration
3) 50 Power
4) 15% Might Duration & 25% Chance when struck to gain Might for 10 secs with a 10 sec CD
5) 100 Power
6) 20% Might Duration & 5% dmg while under the effects of Might

Then, looking at the current 2 and 4 effects of Dolyak/Mesmer/Undead, the stat increases of 15 and 35 seem a bit low for Ferocity, considering the current Scholar effects of 3% and 5% crit dmg. So I’m guessing those numbers will be increased slightly, just like how the 5th effect of Strengths was increased from 90 to 100 Power. Furthermore, you can see the symmetry of 25 – 50 – 100 (they double), so the 4 effect will probably be double the 2 effect, and there will be a steady increase all the way from effect 1 to effect 5. My best estimate is that the new Scholar Runes will look like this:

Superior Rune of the Scholar:
1) 25 Power
2) 35 Ferocity
3) 50 Power
4) 70 Ferocity
5) 100 Power
6) 10% dmg while above 90% health

As for base crit dmg, I believe that will also change. Currently, at lvl 80, you get base 916 Power, Precision, Vitality, and Toughness. And also base 50% crit dmg, although that isn’t shown in the UI. I think they’re replace Attack (a useless stat) with Crit Dmg, and rearrange the stats a bit so Crit Dmg is across from Ferocity, just how Crit Chance is across from Precision.

They’ll probably give you base 916 Ferocity, then implement an equation that results in a lvl 80 still having base 50% crit dmg. The current equation for Precision to Crit Chance is Crit Chance = (Prec – 822)/21, which results in a base crit chance of 4%. So the Crit Dmg equation could look something like Crit Dmg = (Ferocity – 66)/17, which would give a base crit dmg of 50%.

On watching the livestream a second time, I realized they didn’t mention converting crit dmg to to ferocity in the trait lines. So it’ll still probably be 1% crit dmg per stat point in that particular line. The same will probably apply to skills like Arcane Lightning; 10% crit dmg, rather than some amount of Ferocity.

I suppose if you’re adding specialties, put me down for everything except Necro, Engi, or Ranger. I know meta builds for those three as well, but not much else. So, for example, if someone were to ask me about something other than ‘nades and bombs on an Engi, I’d have to give them a blank stare.

It is easy to stay alive as a glass Ele. If you’re stacking against a wall, pre-stack might, Arcane Shield, FGS 3 evade, 2x dodges, and massive dmg. If you’re stacking without a wall, pre-stack might, Arcane Shield, LH blinds, 2x dodges, and massive dmg. In both cases, you’ll be able to stay alive for at least 5-10 secs, and that’s all you need. Trust in your own dmg and the dmg of your group. If your group’s dmg isn’t high enough, find another group (groups that ping zerk exotic/ascended almost always have high enough dmg though, so this usually isn’t an issue).

I’ve found that the #1 reason I die as a glass Ele is bad pulls/pushes, not my own squishiness. Every once in a while, someone will make a bad pull, and the whole group will wipe. This happens FAR more often than just me dying because I’m a squishy glass Ele. Be it pulling Subject Alpha wrong, fearing him into the corner wrong, pulling Laurent wrong, pulling last boss in AC wrong, etc., if the boss doesn’t stick to the wall like glue so we can Fiery Rush with 2x (usually 4x) FGS, we’re all dead. This has been happening less often to my groups, since the 2 people who usually do the pulls have gotten a lot better at them, but it will still happen occasionally.

For skipping, use Arcane Shield. It’ll get you back on your feet when you’re CC’d. Use Armor of Earth; it does the same thing. Although, honestly, I’ve almost never had to use either, since perma swiftness from wars/guard is usually enough, and if it isn’t, guard/mes has stability/cleanses, or thief has stealth. Again, trust in your team. If you’re playing Ele, all you really have to worry about it aiming DT correctly when you pre-stack, spamming LH AA for blinds, keeping yourself alive for the first 5-10 secs of a fight, and getting FGS down in time for 2x or 4x Fiery Rush when the boss gets to the corner. It’s really very easy. You don’t even have to worry about fire fields for your LH blasts, since the guard or staff Ele is giving you those.

“Superior” D/F 30/30 spec? It’s certainly not “superior” in dmg and might stacking, which are the only things that matter for Ele in dungeons. LH is still higher dmg and greater might stacking. The Ember nerf does virtually nothing at all to organized groups; you can still use them at Lupi to increase his AoE, and for the other bosses, they either die before your initial pre-stacked might runs out, or you can get fire fields via PF/HG or a 2nd Ele during combat. Nothing has changed. Something might change if Anet follows through with Water 3 becoming a blast finisher, but even then, LH will still be better at might-stacking and still have higher dmg.

I let rangers take my hammer, and also mesmers, as long as they put up 3x phantasms first. What I really hate is warriors stealing my hammer. There is absolutely no reason for them to; they have 100b, and they vuln-stack with axe/mace.

Iris Ng.9845:

Please Fear Subject Alpha to the corner!!!

I’m a big fan of warriors fearing things into corners. It saves me from playing mes instead of ele. lol

Look at my guide for PvE builds (all dungeons, open world stuff, fracs below 30). The link’s in my sig.

The PDF version is here

oZii.2864:

inb4 Anierna

kitten! This is why sleeping sucks

I’ll ninja the first post next time. muhaha!

From what I understood from the Live Stream yesterday, the changes to crit dmg will be as follows (Anet said they’re subject to change, and I may not have even understood them correctly):

- All crit dmg stats on gear will be changed to Ferocity stats in line with the other minor stats on zerk/assassins. (Eg. Zerk boots that used to give 34 Power, 24 Prec, 2% crit dmg will now give 34 Power, 24 Prec, 24 Ferocity.)

- All crit dmg stats on trait lines will be changed to Ferocity stats. (Eg. Going 30 into Air will no longer give 300 Prec and 30% crit dmg; it will now give 300 Prec and 300 Ferocity.)

- All crit dmg stats on food/buffs will be changed to Ferocity stats. (Eg. Sweet&Spiceys will no longer give 100 Power and 10% crit dmg; they will now give 100 Power and 100 Ferocity. Banner of Discipline will no longer give 170 Prec and 15% crit dmg; it will now give 170 Prec and 170 Ferocity.)

- 2-handed weps (staff for Ele) will no have 2 sigil slots.

- Armor of Earth’s base CD (before Cantrip Mastery) will be lowered from 90 sec to 75 sec.

- Trident (Water 3 on Scepter) will give AoE regen.

- Burning Speed (Fire 3 on Dagger) will be an evade.

- Frozen Burst (Water 3 on Dagger) will be a blast finisher.

Whether the changes to crit dmg will be a nerf or a buff depends upon the conversion ratio Anet chooses (they haven’t yet told us). The conversion ratio for Precision to Crit Chance is 21:1. If they choose that same ratio for Ferocity to Crit Dmg, we’re kittened. So will the ratio need to be to maintain our current amount of crit dmg? …. My spreadsheet’s on my other computer, but I’ll edit this post to give a number for each build in my guide by the end of the day.

For dungeons, use one of the builds in my guide (link’s in my sig).

The PDF version is here

The staff build ( Build A ) has better AoE than the s/x LH builds, but in dungeons AoE is not very important. The AoE you get from the LH builds are good enough. You’d be a greater help to your group by using an s/x LH build.

he hasnt included which game mode it is hes referring to. if its PvE, forget celestial altigether. its worthless. go zerk/assassins. although id be hesitant of making any ascended armor until the devs enlighten us on exactly how they will f*** up the game; there are rumors of a crit dmg nerf. coincidentally, I also would steer clear of celestial because its biggest advantage is higher crit dmg than zerk, and the next update might eliminate that.

sent from my phone

If you want Ele builds for dungeons, use my guide. The link’s in my sig.

The PDF for it is here

If you want Ele builds for PvP/WvW, look elsewhere.

Compiled the guide, images, and spreadsheets into a more accessible PDF, here

Added in limbeurt’s flow chart for when to use conjures.

For Dragon’s tooth, you angle your camera up to the sky, then you move forward/backward a little bit, then you cast. It will drop directly in front of you in melee range.

For Comet, you angle the camera down to the ground, then you move forward/backward a little bit, then you cast. It will drop directly in front of you in melee range.

The important thing to remember is the moving AFTER the camera angle; if you don’t move your toon, it won’t lock the camera angle into place.

Most of them are. The only ones that aren’t are: Arah, HotW, CM, and a few fractals

People did NOT say it increases “damage” by any amount. The word “damage” was never mentioned. Neither was the word “modifier” mentioned, but it was inferred. I’ll give examples of their inferences to it:
.

santa.1640:

usually there is might.
and fury if you have the trait or there is the banner.
and? i’m keep to thinking but the maximum of this trait is 2%.

So the OP believes that, because he’s assuming he’ll only have 2x boons, “the maximum of this trait is 2%.” The maximum what of this trait? The trait does NOT increase you OVERALL DMG directly; what it does is give you a dmg modifier, which in turn increases dmg. The OP was under the false assumption that these modifiers stacked additively (he assumed 2 boons = 2%). Furthermore, he assumed that just because the the tooltip says it increases “damage” by 1% per boon, that meant it directly increases overall dmg by that amount. It doesn’t.
.

Rage.2017:

With elemental attunement trait and constant attunement-switching you will get a constant bonus of 5-6% and if you have a good party, you will get 6-8% out of this trait.

Rage is giving a 5-6% number for solo and a 6-8% number for groups (presumably in dungeons). Even with a “good party,” you will never be able to average more than 6 boons (I used 5 for my calcs, but realistically it’s slightly lower), unless you’re using non-meta builds specifically geared towards maximizing the number of boons, which is noob. So that 8% number he’s giving is rubbish. 6 boons self-multiplies to a 6.15% modifier, and when factoring in the other modifiers, results in a 18% modifier. The actual DMG INCREASE is 6.1%. No way you’d achieve a modifier within the range he gave. Also no way you’d achieve 8% increase in total dmg from that trait.

No, you were more than 0.1% off. Those guys were saying that Bountiful Power would increase your DMG MODIFIERS by “5-6%” and “6-8%,” and that’s just not true. In the particular build I used for my example, it will actually increase your dmg modifiers by 15%! It will increase your EP by 5.1%, but that’s not what the OP was asking, and it’s not what the OP or any of the replies prior to mine were referring to.

You guyz! Giving answers that are: 1) incorrect, and/or 2) lack a proper explanation is just not acceptable. Shame on y’all! I expected better from oZii and Mbelch in particular. It’s OK though – I’ll fix it for you.

Bountiful Power gives 1% dmg increase per boon category on you. That means that if I have Might (any number of stacks) and Fury, then my dmg (X) will be multiplied first by 1.01, then by 1.01 again ([ X * 1.01] * 1.01). This is how dmg modifiers stack: multiplicatively. This means that if I have 2 boons, each of which increases by dmg by 1%, by overall dmg will be increased by MORE than 2%.

The OP asked about dungeons in particular. In a dungeon, I guarantee you will have an average of between 4 and 5 boons, unless your team is the most horrible pug the world has ever seen. When I analyzed Bountiful Power in my guide (link’s in my sig), I assumed 5 boons, and the other theorycrafters on these forums agreed with that assumption.

So how much will Bountiful Power + 5 boons increase your dmg? You have to take all your other dmg modifiers into consideration, due to the multiplicative stacking. I’ll use the example of the 25/10/10/25/0 LH build (Build C in my guide), since it hasn’t got Earth 25 and I don’t want to quibble over endurance uptime.

The build without Bountiful Power (meaning just 25/10/10/20/0) has a cumulative dmg modifier of 2.9297 and an EP of 27973.39. The build with Bountiful Power (meaning 25/10/10/25/0) has a cumulative dmg modifier of 3.0791 and an EP of 29399.90. That means Bountiful Power is increasing your dmg modifiers by 0.1494 and your EP by 1426.51.

That 0.1494 is the number to look at if you’re just evaluating the effect of Bountiful Power, since that means it gives a 14.94% modifier due to self-stacking multiplicatively AND stacking with your other modifiers. So forget those rubbish “5-6% and 6-8%” numbers that Rage and Mbelch were giving; we’re talking almost 15% here! That is HUGE! Your EP with Bountiful Power is 5.1% higher than your EP without it; also HUGE!

My sig.

/15 char

Now that the holiday’s over and I’m doing dungeons every night, I might as well get into this too.

North America

9.
Mentor name: Anierna.6918
Active dungeons: CoF p1/2, SE p1/3, TA up&fwd, HotW p1, all AC, all CoE. Sometimes Arah p2/3 and all CM.
Availability: 7 to 10 or 11 PM East Coast Time (aka. starting at reset, ending 3-4 hours after)
Contact: ingame /whisper, ingame mail, or forum msg
Communication: ingame /party chat or teamspeak
Message: “The daily dungeon tour starts at reset. Contact me at least 10 mins in advance or there won’t be an open spot. These are speed runs, so we will be stacking and skipping. The pre-req is, at the very least, full exotic zerk + rubies or scholars. All classes are welcome, as long as you’re in meta spec. If you’re not, that’s OK too, but you will need to respec to the meta. If you need me to explain what the meta is for your class, contact me at least 30 mins before reset"

maxinion.8396:

Wolfram Alpha/ Mathematica is faster than by hand

Totally. Mathematica’s a godsend

I recently lvl’d an Ele for a friend via crafting + completing storyline. It was so ridiculously easy. Both the fire-staff and the LH builds are OP even at low lvl.

The two easiest ways to lvl are:

1) Unlock the summon Lightning Hammer utility and put 10 trait points in Fire for Conjurer; or
2) Get 30 trait points and put them in Fire for Persisting Flames, Pyromancer’s Alacrity, and Internal Fire. Then get a staff and spam 1, 2, and 5.

Creslin.1758:

Look, I don’t know man. Before I came back to GW2 I played a lot of DOTA2…and people on that game are insanely elitist. But at least there, I can kind of see why…if you get a bad player, your entire team will actually LOSE. And it’s a competitive game.

GW2 PvE though? A sub-optimal player costs you what…a few more minutes? I just don’t see why people get up in arms about this.

Like, if a bad player in GW2 would make it so you actually FAIL the dungeon and get nothing, I could see people getting upset. But this just seems like elitism for the sake of elitism.

Time is money. Wasting a few extra mins in EACH dungeon when you’re doing 20+ dungeon paths per night adds up to a significant amount of time. We’re not talking minutes here; we’re talking hours each day. The vast majority of people who do PvE would like to finish their paths in a shorter amount of time so they can have more time for playing some other aspect of GW2 (PvP/WvW), or so they can go do RL stuff.

@ Falunel: That bit about “Explaining the zerker meta” is good. It’s exactly what needs to be emphasized. The issue is that a great many people who write guides or make vids or teach others in some other way do NOT emphasize it, or even mention it.

Nobody likes to kick people. The guys doing the kicking don’t like it because they have to wait a little longer to find someone else. The people being kicked don’t like it because they’re missing out on something they want to do (in this case, dungeon speed clears). But this continues to happen because some people who want to join speedrun groups are ill-equipped to do so because they’ve been given bad information.

No, the problem is that there are a great many pugs who want to play efficiently, who want to participate in speedruns and help their group as much as they can, but they are being given bad information. They are being told that stacking healing power with clerics will help their group, that using a bear pet to “tank” will help their group, that using shouts to heal will help their group.

The people who give that sort of delusional information need to either:
1) Keep it to themselves; or
2) Start with a disclaimer that their builds are inferior to the meta.

That disclaimer is important because it prevents innocent, impressionable pugs from getting the wrong ideas, and inevitably having a rude wake-up call when they try to join a speed-run group or try to pug a 6 min CoF and end up completing it in 30 mins.

As for my own personal nightly dungeons, it’s not that big of an issue. We only end up pug’ing 1 or 2 spots. The issue is that we need to kick a great many pugs before we find one who fits our criteria, and I truly feel sorry for most of those pugs. They want to be part of a speedclear group, they don’t want to spend 8 hours on the same dungeon route that we complete in 3-4 hours, but through no fault of their own they are not equipped to do so. The blame lies with the people who promoted non-meta builds without disclaiming that the metas are superior in PvE.

“The objective of PvE is to complete it as quickly as possible” because PvE is repetitive, and thus it becomes boring. I run dungeons every single night at reset. Doing them so often, how could it not become boring? Doing them takes 3-4 hours, then I finish my PvE and PvP dailies and I’m done for the day.

That “3-4 hours” is drawing from a dozen people on my friends list who are properly geared (zerk/scholars, double-stacking sigils, meta builds, etc) AND who are usually on at reset and ready to start the dungeon tour at exactly 7 PM East Coast time. I start them then because I don’t want to be up all night playing this game. I have RL stuff to do the next morning.

The problem is that most people aren’t logged in and ready to start dungeons exactly at reset (there are a lot more than those dozen ppl on my friends list, but they just aren’t on or are doing WvW or something). Sometimes people can’t stay for the entire 3-4 hours, usually because they are in a different time-zone and need to go to sleep or because they have other RL commitments. Therefore, we need to pug a spot or two via the LFG tool. This is where the problems start.

So my group puts up an advert under some dungeon for “p__, speedruns, zerk scholar/ruby only, ping gear” to pug 2 spots. We don’t particularly care about which classes come along, since we’ve all got multiple toons in meta specs and can relog to another class if needed. We only care that whoever we pug plays the meta for their class and won’t slow us down.

The problem is that PUGS DON’T READ THE DESCRIPTION. We usually end up kicking a bunch of noobs with sub-1000 AP, noobs who don’t ping their gear, and the especially annoying noobs who join just to call us “elitists” and trash-talk us before leaving the group. After about 5-10 mins, we usually find a proper pug with full zerk, but once we get into the dungeon, he’s using shout-heals or bearbow or mace/shield guard or some other ridiculousness. Sometimes he’s just a stubborn noob who refuses to play the meta, but more often than not, he’s just ignorant of what the meta is.

THIS is the problem I have; people like this pug I’m using as an example were given false information by non-meta players. They watched vids or read guides by anti-meta people like Nemesis and played those builds in speed-runs. I dont’ blame those pugs; it’s not their fault. It’s the fault of the non-meta players who spread their delusions around the community. It would be better for the community if anyone who disagrees with the meta would just keep it to themselves, or if they really must publicize it, start with a disclaimer similar to: This build does less dmg than the meta – it should not be used in speedruns. But this isn’t happening; people like Nemesis are promoting their own sub-optimal builds over the metas, and impressionable pugs are listening to them. Basically, it’s false advertising, and the people that are truly being hurt are the pugs.

30/20/10/10/0 is higher dmg. You do not need Blasting Staff, you do not need Renewing Stamina.

Exactly, Lilith! You said it very well. That’s the whole reason we write guides; to inform the ignorant pug populace of the optimal methods of play. So instead of explaining everything to each pug individually, which would be very time consuming, we can say “read this guide and get back to me with your questions.”

@ Sarah: The objective of PvE is to complete it as quickly as possible. Zerk/assassins is optimal for achieving that. It also forces a player to becomes better because it eliminates his margin for error. Anyone who does not accept this is delusional. I’m fine with you being delusional; that’s your choice. But the buck stops when you try passing your delusions onto others. Spreading misinformation to innocent little pugs is a travesty. You’d be a better help to the community by refraining from saying anything at all.

lololololol!!!!!!!!!!

That was hilarious. The chat window there was priceless:

Slave Driver:
F*** WE NEED A HEALER
TANK IS DOWN
GUYS MY CC NOT WORKING

Bridge:
WE MUST KILL EVERYTHING
NEED TEM LOOT
IM TAKING BETTER POSITION
WE MUST FLANK THEM
WE MUST RANGE GUYS

Rocks:
[deaths x1 million]

Final Boss:
[/facepalm]

Yep, when you’re talking in terms of “viable,” that’s what you get. gg

It’s the economy, stupid

@ sarah: PvE is boring. It’s repetitive because Anet does not add enough new content. They don’t even have a dungeon team anymore. So yes, the only thing PvE is good for is farming cash, and that means it is 100% a “time trial racing game”

@ clumsy: Beat you to the bit about assassins. lol

“Viable” means nothing. Anything is viable in PvE. But very few are optimal. We call those optimal builds “meta.” And all metas use zerk/assassins.

Q: What does “support” mean in reference to Ele in PvE?

A: Might stacking, fire fields, blast finishers, permanent fury, LH blinds, Healing Mist, superior dmg

What it does not mean is any sort of “support build” involving vitality, toughness, or healing power stats.

ele is higher dmg than war even without fgs

I love you.

can I copy that digram into my guide I if I cite it to you?

never lump wvw and pve together. they are compldtely different . the only possible way to use the same build and gear in both is to bfing your zerk meta into wvw. the only acceptable builds in pve are zerk. that youre starting point. in wvw you can go zerk, but kights/cavaliers mix will probaby be better so glass thieves dont insta kill you.

typed from phone

After you’ve gotten your 25 Bloodlust/Perception stacks and swap to your main weps, the sigils on those main weps ought to be a combination of Night, Force, and Dungeon. Generally you’ll use Night and Force for most dungeons, and for Arah you’ll use Undead Slaying and Force.

Assassins does not give condi dmg. It gives the same stats as berserkers (power/prec/crit dmg), but the power and prec stats are swapped. You use various combinations of zerk and assassins gear to optimize dmg by finding the perfect balance between prec and power for your particular build.

You earn gold wayyyyyyyyyyy faster in PvE than you do in PvP.

+1. Right now each LFG advert just shows class, name, and LFG description. It ought to also show Power/Prec/Crit dmg stats when you hover your mouse over any one particular class. Meaning, if we have an ele, a mes, and a war in our group, you can hover over the ele and it’ll show (in a single column): Name, Power stat, Prec Stat, Crit dmg stat. Then you hover over the mes and it gives that information for his individual stats. Etc.

In before someone says “but other stats like healing power or vitality are valuable as well, so they should be shown too.” In PvE, they aren’t valuable. But if Anet were to implement something like this, it wouldn’t be too hard for them to add other stats, so why not. The more information the better.

This is one of the “quality of life” things that would just make life easier. No need to ping gear anymore; you could just check total stats for yourself! Since traits also give stats, if you were familiar with the meta builds, you could tell just from looking at their total stats whether or not they were in full zerk + meta spec.

Quote from this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/The-Ele-Meta-Dungeon-Speed-Clears/page/3#post3469933
(the link goes to the first part about necros; scroll down a bit for the actual post that I’ve copied below).

Trying to achieve an offensive trait setup for Necro that can compete with other classes is incredibly infuriating. A few minor swaps to a few traits in some future balance update would just make it so much easier.

- Putting Death Shiver (DM IX) in Curses as a Master trait by swapping it with any of the 4 current Master lvl Curses traits (all 4 are useless for PvE). It’s ridiculous that 1) a trait relating to DS is in DM rather than Spite, Curses, or SR with the other DS-related traits; and 2) that a DPS trait is in a support line rather than an offensive line.
- Swapping Death into Life (Spite 15) with Deadly Strength (DM 25) and swapping the 7% and 10% values. What’s an increased healing power trait doing in the power traitline anyway? Or if Anet wants to keep it there, change Death into Life from “power-to-healing power” to “power-to-prec.”
- Swapping Siphoned Power (Spire 25) with Target to Weak (Curses 25).

If these changes occurred, you could go 30/20/0/0/20 and have 1) optimal vuln stacking; and 2) higher DPS than spoj’s current 30/25/0/0/15 build. I doubt necro would be able to match War or Ele for dmg even after these changes, but they would definitely be a step in the right direction.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Thief PvE meta is S/P, and has been for over a year (since fractals came out). Just thought I’d correct you there.

Even for single-target? -.^ Thought it was dagger 5 > backstab > 1x AA chain > repeat; that’s maximum backstabs since you restealth almost exactly as soon as Revealed disapears. It’s not sustainable for more than about 10 secs if you’re in 25/30/0/0/15, but with a proper group, that’s all you need. If the fight’s gonna last longer than that, you go 30/30/10/0/0 for Infusion of Shadow, which makes that rotation nearly infinitely sustainable.

Of course, you still have sw/p for trash, but on single-target, I’m pretty sure pistol whip is lower DPS than that backstab rotation. Not 100% sure (maybe 95%), but I can test if you like (although someone probably already has). The other thing about pistol whip is that spamming it is even less sustainable than backstabs in 25/30/0/0/15.

EDIT: Took me a moment to realize that you must be trolling. It’s absurd that you’d think s/p was higher DPS than d/d on single-target. I really am tired >.<

In PvE, there is a meta build for every class. War is axe + GS. Mes is sw/f + OH sw. Guard is sw/f. Thief is d/d. Ranger is sw/horn. Engi is grenades. And Ele is scepter LH. It’s just how PvE works. The goal is to maximize group dmg, so there will always be one single optimal build that does that. Based on the dungeon, that optimal build may change (eg. redoing mes traits for maximum reflect dmg in Arah), but there will still always be one single optimal build.

In PvP/WvW, each class has more than one option. Ele is the same. There is some extent of build diversity in PvP and WvW for every class. I don’t see your point.

Trying to achieve an offensive trait setup for Necro that can compete with other classes is incredibly infuriating. A few minor swaps to a few traits in some future balance update would just make it so much easier.

- Putting Death Shiver (DM IX) in Curses as a Master trait by swapping it with any of the 4 current Master lvl Curses traits (all 4 are useless for PvE). It’s ridiculous that 1) a trait relating to DS is in DM rather than Spite, Curses, or SR with the other DS-related traits; and 2) that a DPS trait is in a support line rather than an offensive line.
- Swapping Death into Life (Spite 15) with Deadly Strength (DM 25) and swapping the 7% and 10% values. What’s an increased healing power trait doing in the power traitline anyway? Or if Anet wants to keep it there, change Death into Life from “power-to-healing power” to “power-to-prec.”
- Swapping Siphoned Power (Spire 25) with Target to Weak (Curses 25).

If these changes occurred, you could go 30/20/0/0/20 and have 1) optimal vuln stacking; and 2) higher DPS than spoj’s current 30/25/0/0/15 build. I doubt necro would be able to match War or Ele for dmg even after these changes, but they would definitely be a step in the right direction.

1) Bring a Necro.

2) Use either: A)WoC; or B) Corrupt Boon + Epidemic. Using all 3’s a good idea too =D

3) Coordinate it so everyone in your group bursts after you using Epidemic.

Ars Valde.8693:

Thank you for taking the time to read nothing.

I read your original post. I addressed it in my initial response. I’ll quote your OP below, since you seem to have forgotten what it actually contained:

Ars Valde.8693:

I’m beginning to work towards Ascended Gear and curious if I should continue down my ‘Zerks or bust’ path, or if perhaps it would serve myself and my group better if I built to live longer, or utilized the bigger stat gain of Celestial gear.

- I would love advice on the build, if there’s more efficient ways to damage or support without losing much one way or another. The utility of focus for dungeons despite possibly being subpar is pretty hard to argue with.

-Group utility is nice. I’m open to trying a completely different build before deciding as long as I bring competitive damage and useful things such as projectile destruction and CC

You “would love advice on the build.” I gave you advice: don’t use FA. I explained why it’s not worth using. I even gave you the link to alternative builds that work better in dungeons. The LH builds in particular have far greater utility and do far higher dmg than your d/f build, for reasons I’ve stated previously. Regarding focus, you still use it in LH builds for optimal might-stacking prior to summoning/picking-up the LH, so it is most definitely not “subpar.”

You’re “open to trying a completely different build before deciding as long as I bring competitive damage and useful things.” s/f LH builds fulfill both these criteria better than your current d/f build.

Regarding optimal gear, “if you had taken the time to look at the link I provided, you’d have seen I was running” full zerk/assassins for every single one of my meta builds.

Post edited by moderator

Ars Valde.8693:

If you had taken time to look at the link I provided, you’d have seen I was running Dagger/Focus.

Obviously I did look at it, or I wouldn’t have referenced Lightning Whip (below).

Anierna.6918:

That reply assumed scepter + FA. Lightning Whip + FA is better, but then you lose 2x blasts for might stacking. And if you’re gonna be in melee range for Lightning Whip, you might as well use scepter + LH. The only dungeon where I’d ever use Lightning Whip over LH is the last boss of HotW p1 for the slightly greater range.

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Ars Valde.8693:

The reason for focus is the large amount of utility and survivability is brings to a group, and while the lightning hammer is nice it is purely DPS. The loss of damage I incur by not consistently using the hammer is marginal compared to the group protection and personal survivability offered by just.. not using it.

Focus does not bring a “large amount of utility and survivability to a group.” It brings a minor extent of survivability to you (Magnetic Wave and Obsidian Flesh) and a single utility to the group which is actually detrimental to DPS because it destroys projectiles rather than reflecting them (Swirling Winds).

The lightning hammer is not “purely DPS.” It has significant utility. The first 2 attacks in its AA chain are cleave. The 3rd attack in its AA chain is 5-target AoE, blind, and a blast finisher. The 3 attack is a CC. The 5 attack is a stun similar to Line of Warding.

You do not offer “group protection” by not using the LH. The only protection you can give is via EA in Earth, which isn’t worth getting for PvE. Even if it were, you could still swap to Earth to give protection while using the LH. As far as group survivability goes, which is what I’m guessing you meant but was phrased quite poorly, using the LH in Water maintains Healing Mist for your group, so it actually does more for them than swapping between atunes and spending most of your time in Air, as you do with a FA build.

As far as “personal survivability” goes, if you’re using MH dagger, you’ll spend most of your time using Lightning Whip, so you’ll already be in melee range. For 90% of combat in dungeons, you’re stacking everything anyway, so there is no downside to using LH. It won’t be detrimental towards your own or your group’s survivability; in fact, it will be beneficial. With an LH build, you’ll also be using focus, so you still have Obsidian Flesh if you need it. Furthermore, you’ll be using scepter as well, so that’s 2x additional blast finishers and a faster heal, Trident (channeling Cone of Cold is a DPS loss).
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Ars Valde.8693:

Lightning Hammer is fantastic for a might spam fury stacking build that focuses on pewpewpew, but since that sort of build is relative trash in an uncoordinated group

For pug’ing I run 30/30/0/10/0 s/d LH. That’s as glassy as it gets; the only concessions to DPS I make are minor: 1) the 10 points in Water for Healing Mist instead of putting then in Earth and AA’ing in Air; and 2) OH dagger instead of focus for the larger fire field and Cleansing Wave. I rarely die, and then only because: 1) the group wipes; or 2) at the end of a boss fight when Arcane Shield and my dodges have run out. The second event rarely happens because when I pug I always ask for a gear ping, and zerk pugs are perfectly capable of killing bosses long before my dodges/Arcane Shield runs out.

Depends on the situation. If it’s a monster zerg vs zerg, then no; staff is better (unless you’re coordinating Swirling Winds use with other Ele’s). If it’s roaming, than no; OH dagger is better, mainly due to increased mobility via RtL, but also for a bunch of other reasons, one of which is Churning Earth + LF. Same goes for PvP. If it’s PvE, then no, since you want scepter for higher might-stacking or staff for higher dmg, So where would d/f be optimal? …. maybe fracs above 40. Nothing else comes to mind.

Anything is viable. Few are optimal.