Guild Wars 2

I find Precision to be overrated for condition builds:

- Barbed Precision is laughable: roughly 33% to apply 1 bleed tick. Don’t even mention it.
- Dhuumfire just need a crit every 10 sec, and every 10 sec you can get Fury: with only 20 points in Curses, no extra precision, that’s already 34% crit rate.
- Earth sigil can be switched to Geomancy (3 bleeds of 7 sec base) or any other decent sigil.

I can see Dire becoming the new Rabid in terms of popularity.

If Vitality and Toughness are pretty much on par for mitigation (calculations based on 100% direct damage) Carrion is clearly better because of conditions. We may be the best at taking care of them, we still eat alot of burning, poison and bleed stacks…

Having Last Gasp and running Spectral Armor most of the time, I generate a substantial amount of LF. And I tend to be in DS as soon as possible while being “spectral” to preserve health, using DS #1 to fill that extra time, thinking I also take advantage of the Power provided by Carrion. But am I right ?

Now, I wonder which one is better damage wise. But that could be tricky and depends on builds and alot of other things.

That change to 3 conditions per target would be OK if there was no removal order (or a more favorable one ? or am I just unlucky ?) because I feel that those bleed stacks I carry love me so much, they don’t want to go away when I transfer 3 out of 4 conditions…

I hope it’s just bad luck, because with Corrupt Boon only corrupting Stability when there’s nothing else to corrupt, I don’t want more skills to hate us… (I mean, besides flower staring minions, spells stopped by grass or thin air for no reason, etc…) >_>

Outside of MM ? On a lower CD, maybe. I find it cumbersome: if I plan to use it on another point, I need to destroy it, which means I’m teleported, and when I need to go to the opposite direction it hinders my already terrible mobility… And as stated, the combo is mostly useless as is.

I’ve played with 120 radius marks. It was a nightmare to land a 0.75 sec mark on moving targets.

I still thank ANet for that hell, because it improved my gameplay: I can predict movements more reliably under various circumstances now, which also helps for scepter #2 and dagger #5.

180 radius was a night and day difference.

As for the unblockability, now I look more carefuly for aegis before I land an important mark. That habit also improved my gameplay: I see all “dangerous boons” with just a quick glance, and act accordingly.

Please, tone down those guardians. I’m sick of seeing how strong they are… ALL team rely on one: it is SO essential, that nobody question it.

Those who think otherwise, ask yourself: if you were to choose between necro, s/d thief, spirit ranger or guardian for your team, what would you take ?

Anyway, well done Azshen and Teldo for saving your team from disaster. Too bad for CC, they deserved victory too.

/discuss :p

Face it guys, those 30/30/20/0/20 necromancers with 6 nightmare runes + 6 necromancer runes that cast unbreakable 12 sec fears on demand will get you all the time.

Dhuumfire’s current state is clearly to deter PAX participants from taking it. Even as an adept tier I wouldnt take it because it needs precision to apply measly damage and a crappy conditions blanket: not worth it, IMHO.

So, I guess we’re back to the pre june 25th patch with a 0/30/20/0/20 with carrion amulet, except that now:
- we don’t have Sigil of Paralyzation anymore
- Terror deals 17% less damage
- we (roughly) traded marks unblockability and size for 20% reduced CDs
- we now have intended DS survivability (still melted by conditions)

Wait… Did I give up a 2 sec Dhuumfire a bit too quickly ? =_= (Dhuum sure is cruel and unjust…)

Doing that 2 days before the begining of a big tournament makes me very very sad…

I really hate that extra second after leaving transformations. Sometimes it results in death, most of the time in frustration. Must be a punishment for using our class ability.

Anyway, asking for instant heal is going overboard. We should always have a mean to interrupt healing. But having no access to block/aegis, stability, etc. AND having one of the longest cast time is a bit harsh. So, please, consider reducing Consume Conditions cast time from 1.25 sec to 1 sec.

Here is one: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQRBHbhG2IjWlemm1GDfCB6x7VLOTUhhh6h7sOfIA-TwAg0CnIiRFjLGTMyYsxMoYRxugZBA

It’s a high burst build. You will hate being a pinball necro without any stun breaker, but you will love the burst. Either immobilize with dagger #3 and drop wells (possibly from afar), hit DS, and bolt, or spectral grasp, wells, DS #1. Target should be chilled, at least with focus #5, so if he dodge out of wells, outrun him and fear him back into, while still bolting. You can go Lich Form instead of DS too.

We will see soon enough if audacious teams get rewarded or not. Anyway, just 4-5 days for EU players to adapt to the changes is really short. Most teams will probably stay with a composition they are comfortable with, and just work a bit on how to counter potential opponents’ necro.

Warhorn doesn’t give quickness. It’s most likely a coincidence that you use it while a guardian use his tome of wrath.

You have to inflict alot of different conditions to protect bleeds/burning from being cleansed. Some professions can remove 3 to 4 conditions every 10 sec.

I haven’t tested a power build since the DS buff of last patch, but I think conditions still have the upper hand. Power shroud builds are pretty vulnerable to blinds and blocks that interrupt your pressure, because DS #1 is slow. While conditions, once landed, keep pressuring, even if you miss the next few hits.

By the way, if you run a condition build without Dhuumfire, I strongly advise you to go carrion (some dhuumfire necro also go carrion, taking advantage of DS fury), mostly because of the extra vitality that helps manipulating conditions and the double+ dip with DS scaling at apparently 120% of your health pool (not counting Soul Reaping bonus). As an added bonus, you deal decent direct damage: can be a life saver when you’re almost dead, all DS skills used, spamming DS #1 to take down your opponent first.

Cufufalating.8479:

As someone whos never played necro before, could someone explain in simple terms why these patch notes are so bad?

I an genuinely curious, because to an outsider they dont look too bad (but like I said, I dont really know how necro builds work).

This patch is a buff, no matter what emo necros can say. It’s just that some can’t cope, yet, with Death Shroud not being able to absorb an infinite amount of damage anymore. They are slowly moving through the 7 steps to acceptance. The sad part, as Rennoko noted, is that it slightly reduces skill cap, because you can’t reactively pop DS to absorb a huge hit anymore).

I think the most grieving part of this patch is the reduction of build diversity. But the necromancer becomes more and more viable, and that’s a step up from the diversity of crappy builds we had before.

Mammoth.1975:

I don’t know what kind of enemies you’re fighting, but most of the ones I face hit a lot harder than 2% of my health. If you’re taking 6000 dps, you’re boned either way, and that’s about the point where old spectral is better than new spectral, assuming your enemies can output 1500-2000 dps on a stationary target.

Professions with aegis, stealth, vigor, invulnerability and blocks aren’t “boned” because they don’t have to take 6000 DPS, they can just negate most of it easily. Being a profession that can’t escape and get easily pinball’ed (btw, KBs are OP), a bit more LF generation while focused fire would greatly help closing the survivability gap, while still not giving us any of those buffs other professions have.

Up to now, tPvP was mostly: “focus fire necro to the ground”, maybe it could change to: “focus fire necro to 50%, switch to someone else for 5-6 sec, and back to necro for the kill”.

Anyway, do conditions still melt DS ?

I tried 30/20/0/0/20 really hard after the Sigil of Paralyzation “fix”, when marks had a radius of 120, but it was nightmarish to land on fast moving targets. Now, not only we have improved marks radius, but Last Gasp got buffed to the point it is an almost required trait. So, 30/20/0/0/20 all the way !

Personally, I find Soul Mark lack luster, not generating enough (but I haven’t played since the DS “fix”), and I prefer longer fear as it is both a defensive and offensive condition. Or maybe because I love to be feared. evil grin

- Small reduction to Terror, but it was already nerfed with the, now defunct, Sigil of Paralyzation, so it adds up. RIP 0/30/20/0/20 and similar, we’re really forced into Dhuumfire.
- Spectral Armor / Last Gasp is now better in 1v1, and worse under focused fire. Please reduce internal CD to 0.5 sec.
+ Staff is now useable as is. Finally.
+ Improved survivability through DS fix and builds going 15+SR, especially powermancer with Spectral skills.

Now, other skills may need improved LF generation, like either scepter #3 or add some to dagger #4 or #5, Reaper’s Precision, Signet of Undeath, Corruption skills…

Overall, this patch is a decent PvP buff, and I’m eager to test 30/20/0/0/20 or some powermancer builds !

It’s a joke, right ? Necro’s Torment is already the slowest to stack UP to 3.

In a coordinated team, a venom thief is WAY better to apply torment: once, in tpvp, I was mid and took 16 stacks from 4 enemies in no time, because of a thief. They can apply 3 to 4 stacks instantly (EDIT: ok not instantly but felt like it) and spread that ability to teammates…

A huge spike on one person is generaly better than mild damage on everyone. The only way a necromancer could be scary in this case, is if he was able to spread these stacks with Epidemic. Thank god this skill is unreliable, and fail even when the target isnt dodging or obstructed… =_= Please nerf us.

Here is a good explaination of how condition ticks work: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/condition-damage-and-ticks/first

So, on a fresh target (no condition), if you start with fear, you will never get a 2nd tick. But with conditions already present on the target, you have 90% chance to get a 2nd tick.

If you’re able to time your fear, you can reliably have 2 ticks with like +40% fear duration (30/30/10/0/0 build with nightmare runes). For example, you chain staff #2 with staff #5 on a fresh target, so fear lands 0.75 sec after the first bleeds (mark cast time with server side queue, so no latency involved) and will last 1.4 sec, ticking at 0.25 and 1.25 sec. Try it on training golems in the mist with just +30% duration and you should always get 2 ticks.

Bunker build for PvE ? Well, I will consider you want to “bunker” in PvP instead, even if, in my opinion, we don’t have enough Life Force generation and life siphon for it, yet.

Chill sigils and runes are definitely the way to go.

Deathly Invigoration, even with a 7 sec DS, is pretty much garbage. You will get more with Vampiric Master, even though it doesnt scale with healing power and that you have only one pet (but the Golem’s worth 3 utility pets when it comes to this trait).

Anyway, why would you give up Plague, a fantastic bunker skill, for a somewhat flower staring pet ? If you decide to go Plague form, take either Mark of Evasion, OR (better, in my opinion) put those 10 points in Curses for Weakening Shroud (10 sec AoE weakness on a 15 sec CD).

With this build DS has 30% increased pool, but your pool is based on health, which is pretty low, due to Cleric having no stamina. And since the only skill that scales decently with healing power is Well of Blood, and that low health makes you vulnerable to conditions, I would get rid of them and take Soldier amulet and Consume Conditions instead. You will have more health and a cleanse to survive conditions.

As a bunker I would also take Foot in the Grave because stability is just kittening awesome.

For life force generation Im torn between staff and axe/warhorn. Here is the tradeof:
+ 7 sec DS that provide stability (instead of Soul Marks)
+ Dark Armor (+400 armor for dagger #2, axe #2 and DS #4) or Ritual of Protection (with 3 wells) instead of Greater Marks
- you will miss a chill (but you still have DS #2, weapon switch and focus #5 which should be more than enough with a 70% duration increase)
- you will miss a condition transfer (but it’s buggy or stealth nerfed right now)
- and an AoE fear (which is the real loss IMHO, despite being on a long CD)

But personally I would go for a reduced LF generation and take dagger/dagger + axe/focus so I can still transfer conditions (with multi target blinds) and an AoE weakness. And in this case, instead of going 10 points in Curses, you may prefer to add 10 more points in Death Magic to take both Dark Armor and Ritual of Protection (Shrouded Removal could also be interesting: a 7 sec cleanse).

Hope this helps.

vicious.5683:

Ara.4569:

I would put both Dhuumfire and Terror as grandmaster trait in curse. Move the weakness on crit to spite

yeah because Spite it’s the precision tree… lol

Dhuumfire it’s 100% proc because of that same reason.

It’s your amulet that defines your precision. I have 30 points in Curses and only 18% crit because I run carrion. Also, the Spite tree can really use that extra survivability when running either knight or zerk amulet in power builds. Condi builds already have dagger #5, weakening shroud trait and staff combo to apply weakness.

I would put both Dhuumfire and Terror as grandmaster trait in curse. Move the weakness on crit to spite and make the +33% scepter duration a master trait (don’t even bother to reduce its effectiveness because it’s a PvE trait).

I’m out of topic but I would love conditions, especially fear with Terror, to do damage for those fractions of second that currently deal 0. So that a 1.7 second of fear deals 100% the first tick and 70% the second tick.

Also, the introduction of a new sigil that increases fear duration would be nice. I mean, so many things can get rid of that condition, and it’s far from the overpowered knockbacks that not only disable your character but also void stun breakers used too early… Yeah, you have to wait the end of the animation before you can break out…

I like the legendary spear and trident. But who would spend that much time for underwater weapons ?

My choice of weapons so far:
- staff → Scythe
- scepter → Eye of Rodgort
- dagger → Fused Dagger (MH power build), Malefacterym (OH condi)

Not really fond of other weapons: axe, focus (currently using Kodan for them) and warhorn (using Adamant, one of the most sober). I love The Anomaly, but it’s too “mesmery”.

You got me wrong. I mean that (I schematize) a player with high level of execution and experience can play almost any stupid build and be successful against a very good build badly executed. So it’s pointless, it doesnt prove anything.

Not to mention that to determine the effectiveness of a build, the only matchup tested will be necro vs necro ? Too bad Im not in the mood to laugh.

So, to see who’s right, you’re going to fight ?
Congratulation kids, you’re back to medieval intelligentsia…
Put your hand in boiling oil son, if you’re not burnt, god is on your side.

If I were you, and I had an argument about Street Fighter 4, to prove that Dan (worst character) is top tier, I would ask a world class player to play Dan against my friend’s top tier character. And as my friend accept the challenge, no matter the outcome, the two of us already lost.

When sometimes people criticize the builds instead of the person behind them, I read stuff like “build x/x/x outperform yours”, “it has flaws”, “there’s obvious ways to beat that build”, and so on…

So, please, tell us WHY you think so, enlighten us with solid arguments, concrete examples, theory crafting…

Respect us and earn respect in return.

Rym (and others) you forgot the context : he said that staff is not effective in some burst scenarios.

I have a question about Tormentor rune choice: why not giving up 100 condition damage for +20% duration on every condition, not just fear ? Sounds juicy.

Also, as shown in Rennoko’s Terror Data thread for 100% extra duration on fears, when we already have 50% from master of terror, 20% from runes and a 1.15 multiplier from sigil, we just need at least 5 points in spite for guaranteed extra tick. So maybe instead of 0/30/20/0/20 it could be interesting to go 10/30/10/0/20 ? Especially when we can’t control that reaper’s protection fear, and it can easily waste a 90 sec CD (Im torn because 4 sec fear in crazy good). Or maybe 5/25/20/0/20 or 10/20/20/0/20…

Tested under focus fire: you are able to cast it, then you get kicked out of the well before the first tick. Oh well…

Liquid.9672:

If the leaked notes are legit (http://pastebin.com/2rrFg9pS) here is the info on Torment:

Torment: Added a new Condition called Torment. This does damage every second (75% of a bleed), and double damage to foes that are moving(150% of a bleed). Stacks intensity.

The 5 stack weakness could be some “dual pistol mesmer”-kind of internal notes. Or that condition will now stack in intensity.

In both cases, that would mean it is legit and that Tainted Shackles would deal crappy damage, unless 5-10 stacks are applied at once. Anyway, I pray for hybrid damage, not pure condi…

I hope Tainted Shackles deal burst damage on teleports.

And if that new condition can be transfered, thieves and mesmers may think twice before applying it upon us, as it could backfire really hard in their face. =D

I can see a trait where chills apply burns. So cold it burns.

My chillomancer would love that. =D~~

Fire Pinball : handle with care !

A simpler fix IMHO:

When a bleed is added on top of 25 others, the oldest bleed is removed and deals all the remaining ticks in one hit.

Also, when there’s, say, a 3.35 sec bleed ticking, let it tick 4 times, the 4th tick dealing 35% of a tick in this example.

Give a baseline stun breaker bar, akin to endurance bar.

That bar could be different depending on class (ie: the thief could have a bar that refill in 90 sec with a stun breaker eating 30 sec, and the necromancer a 60 sec bar with a 60 sec stun breaker), and remove stun breaking capacity from skills.

Or everyone get the same bar for clarity’s sake and a select few skills retain their ability to break out of CC.