You won’t reliably get dmg at max range with the mortar if it uses the games projectile predictions. You could sidestep the old ranger longbow without problems, how would mortar 1# ever hit?
How do you know what their uptime in a fight will be in the first place to make a sensible claim?
Granted, if they are anything like SW’s, they will just get bursted by AoE but that’s not really the point here. You don’t even know if this is a problem yet.
We do know that Bulwark have 11100 health in the livestream, and that is the tanky and durrable one.
I don’t dislike the gyros…..but they don’t really offer anything useful. In a sad way they are a bit worse than turrets. Turrets at least can be up to 5 min (if they survive), gyros only last 25sec. If they remove the CD and improve their defenses/HP I would consider using them, and make the medic gyro as powerful as healing turret. The only gyro I MIGHT consider using is the one that spins in place and applies conditions.
Gyros only last 12 to 15 sec, only exception is Sneak gyro at 30 sec. Personally I’d like to see the cooldown start when they are spawned and be just above their durration (20 sec cooldown on 15 sec durration), so if you manage to keep them alive you get 3/4th uptime. Shredder and Bomb gyro don’t act like gyros, so we’d have to look at them differently.
And actually, we have a better starting position than every Elite Spec except for Chronomancer.
The starting positions does not matter at all, the current one does. Every spec have one more beta weekend to get good.
Even if all Gyros were invulnerable for the entirety of their duration, kits would still be better and Healing Turret would still dominate.
No 1 solution will solve all the problems, let us take one problem at a time and for gyros they need to be working by them self before we even consider taking them over kits. For now, let us focus on making them survive, then we can look at how they will compeat against core skills
Naive question: Is the Medic Gyro chosen in the healing slot, precluding HT, or is it chosen through another mechanism, which would allow it to be used with and to extend HT?
It is a healing skill and can not be chosen with healing turret. You should watch the livestream .
Whats the intervals between pulses for group heal?
3 sec.
There is already a Medic Gyro thread here with 57 responses, it should be used instead of making new ones.
First off, Scrapper should not solve our core problems. The core traits should work as a core proffesion on it’s own.
with that said, I see 2 main problems with our traits:
1. To many duplicate traits (like No-scope and Heavy caliber)
2. To many traits that only affect 1 kit (this can mostly be opened up to suppport more builds)
Glass cannon and Shaped Charge should be merged into one 10% dmg buff with a bit more noticable restriction.
No scrope should be on non-crit without range restrictions to gain it’s own role of granting crit chance to low crit builds. (It is to similar to High Caliber at the moment).
Takedown Round is clearly an explosives trait and feels to similar to Aim-assisted Rocket , I’d rather see the old downed trait return.
Grenadier , Short Fuse and Siege Rounds should all be merged to a grandmaster Explosive trait that:
- Reduce cooldown on all skills that causes explotions
- Projectiles that causes explotions travels faster
- Delayed explotions triggers faster
Shrapnel should be moved down to master level.
Explosive Descent should be a part of another trait.
Siege Rounds old double tap on mortar toolbelt should be baseline or changed. The extra field durration should be made into it’s own trait called Fallout that adds 2 sec to all fields, not only mortar fields.
Chemical Rounds & Skilled Marksman should be merged, as they can be taken on the same time, but never taken advantage off at the same time.
Health Insurance should swap place with Over Shield and become: Medpacks you make can be picked up by up to 5 different allies.
Inversion Enzyme should be a grandmaster that replaces Stimulant Supplier and works on all conditions removal and not just Elixir Gun.
Everyone knows that, this thread is about getting rid of it, or tuning it down.
Yes it needs a cooldown. Ranged finisher and ranged revive. It provides some thinking and team play to know who you should be reviving or if it would be better to be used on a stomp.
It’s a gyro and will be destroyed quite easily, it will feel horrible if you get it destroyed right away and then have to wait 30 sec before you can use your elite mechanic again.
As well as it giving stability, it needs to be on a cooldown.
Then put that trait on an ICD.
It’s also a free choice skill, your giving up no utility slots for it.
Neither Chronomanzer, Beserker or Tempest gave up anything for their class mechanic.
So… if you ran no gyros the fuel bar would do what?
eh.. just make em move faster to keep up with the scrapper and this shouldnt be an issue. Ranger pets move by your side or really close to you rather then behind you. Make it like this and this should be fixed quite easily
It’s not the movement speed that is the problem, the AI don’t refresh their path often and thus end up standing still and then trying to catch up to a spot you are already past. Look at the stream, the Sneak gyro can catch up with the player, but it goes to the wrong spot.
My opinion comes from the fact that its a ranged Rez/stomp mechanic, most ranged rez utilities have high CD and long cast times. this mechanic is the first of its kind to not only rez at range but stomp at range allowing you to stomp backline while focusing the front line. it needs at least a 15 sec cooldown.
It’s just a 750 range, that will not reach a backline.
And that Sneak Gyro is pretty redundant. You know exactly where the enemy is moving because you see the Gyro. Plenty of skills, CC and now also Stealth-breakers, can be easily used. Or just pick off the very squishy gyro itself.
While I hate how we never use our utilities for their intented proposes (just look at how we use healing turret). I should remind you that the elite gyro is instant cast. That means instead of using it to sneak up to your enemies, you pop it once you get stun locked or when you try to stomp an enemy. Then you blow it up afterwards to put it on a 30 sec cooldown and have it ready for round 2. It seems to be very good to give ourself some breathing room, or to cover up charge abilities like magnet (if it wasn’t bugged).
The toolbelt seems extreamly good too, 20 sec cooldown on a 6 sec AoE reveal in 900 radius, you just pop that kinda skill whenever you feel like it.
If we are talking about toolbelt skills, most of them looks pretty nice. With the exception of Bypass Coating and Chemical Field. They both feels like filler traits.
I don’t think any of the utility gyros bring anything worth taking over current utility skills. Some of them might be nice, but would anyone take them over Toolkit, Elixir S, grenade kit, or similar skills? Would you trust one of your pressious utility slots to an AI?
They would need some new tech that could let them attatch the gyros to the Scrapper when they are not wandering around. Don’t think they have time to do anything like that before release tho.
If the res bot is as squishy as the bulwark (or worst) then it won’t be difficult to stop. The Bulwark have 11100 Hp (acording to dmg numbers in the stream), some AoE on top of that, or even downed AA will easily take them out. Also, you would not be able to use multiple function gyros at the same time.
I think they would still need a cooldown on Stabilization Core to avoid mad stability stacking.
Gyros are very disappointing.
The Bulwark Gyro seemed to have around 15k HP which is saddening low for it being a “frontline tank”, which will take both 50% of your (and your party!)
As I said earlier in this thread, the streams shows a healthpool of 11100 on the Bulwark.
Having no cooldown but the gyro has to move from you to your target would be a lot better than the current implimentation. As it is, it might as well not be a gyro considering how it just spawns at it’s location and stands still.
Doubt anyone knows anything about gyro hp either.
We did see in the livestream that the Bulwark gyro recived 4222 dmg then 6885 dmg and dies. So the most durrable of them all only have about 11100 health, and that was made to absorb half of the dmg dealt to your entire group over 15 sec.
Well in the POI thread I do have a long writeup that includes doing something extra with the Purge Gyro. Stun break actually fits pretty well thematically with “purging” negative effects so maybe let it do that ONCE while it is active. It will break the first CC you receive.
This could be a completly new mechanic. If the Gyro not only removes 2 conditions, but it will also fly around attempting to stundbreak allies (or yourself).
I agree. And yes only 1/2 of it. So you can confirm Medic gyro does provide something. Sustained AoE heal (assuming it does not die quickly), It has the AoE daze too when it dies, X effects when traited.
Following math done earlier in this thread, even half of the healing from healing turret (it would be more with the regen) is more than the Medic gyros heal. And the healing turret is still les risky and provides good condi removal.
If we are talking about traits, healing turrets lower cooldown triggers healing traits more often, as well as Vigor from Experimental Turrets or a reflectiv shield from Advanced Turrets (I would never run Advanced Turrets even in a full turret build, but that is a diffrent story). Healing Turret can also be traited for knockback.
Look, we all want this to be a good heal, but the numbers are clearly off and we are simply stating it so the devs can do something about it asap. We only have one beta weekend to test so there is no time to waste.
Don’t forget about the toolbelt skill laying the waterfield and then 3 leaps of our rocket charge in it. That’s gotta be some pretty decent healing right?
That requires a few things:
- You are running hammer (this one is easy)
- Your Hammer #3 is off cooldown (a bit more difficult , but doable)
- Your enemy stands in the middle of your waterfield for the entire durration (Nope!)
Uhmm you guys are forgetting the basics, Healing turret only heals YOU. (no blasts included)
Half of the Healing turret heal will heal your allies, the condi removal and regen also goes onto allies.
Why is it 44 seconds if your adding a 14 sec tic to it? Cooldown will still be 30 seconds.
Because it is alive for 14 sec before it dies, putting it on a 30 sec downtime. The cooldown does not start the moment you summon it, it starts when it dies.
I believe for healing over time the Med Gyro should be the best choice, hence the proposed changes, whereas for burst healing Healing Turret is still the best choice.
I think they should be ranked as this (1 is best):
1. A well timed AED.
2. Healing Turret kept out (It can not move so the risk it higher than Medic gyro)
3. Medic Gyro kept alive (High risk yet you can give it protection or Aegis to survive)
4. Healing turret blast/placement combo
5. Bandage self (would be above healing turret if you use the medpacks)
6. Elixir H (benefits in boons, RNG should be gone)
7. Medic Gyro Killed instantly
8. Healing turret killed instantly
On your suggestions, I feel like the Gyros cooldown should start the moment they are summoned, so you are rewarded more for keeping them alive and not just blowing them up. Managing to keep them alive for their entire lifespan should leave you with little downtime.
For the Functioning Gyro I have a summary of my thoughts here
Hammer looks sweet, might even play with it even when I am mostly a mid-range player.
Some gyros feels like filler skills. All of them are ruined by their cooldown (starts when they die).
- Medic Gyro is higher risk than Healing Turret combo and heals les over longer time, also have no regen or condi removal, and works worst with the invention line.
- Bulwark Gyro might be usefull, but only if it have a decent health pool.
- Blast Gyro is Personal Battering Ram 2.0 and seems to just be stricktly worst than some other utilities.
- Shredder Gyro is not even a gyro, it just stands still and spins, it looks good at what it does, but it’s no gyro.
- Purge Gyro can be good, but again, cooldown after death ruins this.
- Sneak Gyro looks pretty good, but I expect PvE NPCs to agroo on it like chieftan did, so it won’t have that much use in PvE (at least not like a gyro).
The toolbelts are all somewhere on the Ok to Meh scale. Nothing here that works with Static Discharge (would have been nice). Detection Pulse however looks amazing for PvP/WvW (20 sec cooldown is mad!). I wish the toolbelt skills had some traits dedicated to them.
Some traits looks good, but nothing that makes me pick the traitline alone.
Last point: Where are the explosive tags?
What if they made the first skill summon 3 Blast gyros and the second (,third and fourth) skill command one of the drones to go to target player and explode. Kinda like daredevils throwingknifes.
There would still be tons of counter play since the gyros are out earlier and are still weak to CC, pathfinding and death.
Gyros are mobile, turrets aren’t
You don’t leave the healing turret out. To get the most out of your heal you place it, overcharge it and pick it up again. Or you can blow it up for a healing blast (adds 5 sec to the cooldown).
By placing it and picking it up you get:
- 2520 hp from placement to yourself.
- 2520 hp from overcharge to yourself and allies.
- 2 conditions removed from yourself and allies.
- Regen for 7+ sec for yourself and allies
- 15 sec before you can do it again.
Medic gyro not dying to early gives you:
- 2590 hp on placement to yourself.
- 820 health every 3 sec over 14 sec (that is 3480 hp) to yourself and allies.
- 14sec+30sec (for a total of 44 sec) before you can use it again.
If the medic gyro is destroyed right away you get:
- 2590 Hp to yourself.
- 30 sec before you can use it again.
Gyro also have shorter Radius (300 vs 480 on healing turret)
The Gyro is clearly worst in every aspect. It is higher risk, heals les, no regen, no condi removal, works worst with invention traits or even the new trait called Recovery Matrix).
(edited by Are.1326)
So we finally got an explanation on how the Scrappers new class mechanic works in practice durring todays Point of Interest.
Basically, if you try to interact with a downed player on your, or the enemys team you will summon a gyro ontop of them that will attempt to revive or stomp.
The Gyro can be targeted, CCed and killed, It also have a 30 sec cooldown.
Personally I envisioned something more… interactive, that changes or enhances the way you play. As it stands, this is pretty much Rangers Alliesai’ Aid trait with a more squishy body. For those not aware, Allies’ Aid makes the ranger pet start reviving any ally the ranger tries to revive, and will continue so even if the ranger stops reviving.
So if we compare the two we get the following pros and cons…
Function Gyro:
- Gyro can also stomp. <This is pretty big outside of PvE
- Gyro can be used at a short 750 range.
- Tiny and might not be noticed.
Allies’ Aid:
- Pet have a more durrable body than a gyro
No cooldown<nvm, seems like there is a CD unlisted on the wiki- Only takes an adept trait slot and not a whole elite spec mechanic.
- Faster to use
- Also increases revive speed by 10%
- Can be used in melee range
So here is what I Envisioned for this “elite mechanic”.
Interacting with any (or most) interactable objects in the game from a range between the normal interact range and about 1000 will summon a Functioning Gyro on your location that will attempt to move to the interacted objects location and then interact with it. Interactable objects can be:
- Downed allied players
- Downed enemy players
- Loot chests of all kinds
- Bundles
- NPCs
- Doors (rarely found around the open world)
- Switches (or not, if this would cause balance problems in some instances)
- Objects you can channel onto (like the buffs in Temple of the Silent Storm)
- And most hilariously of all: the orb in Spirit watch
If I forgot any please post them in replies.
If you already have a Functioning Gyro summoned, instead of summoning a new gyro, the currently summoned gyro will instead drop whatever it is doing and try to interact with the new task. This means, the Function Gyro have no cooldown, so we can play with it a lot more.
If the task is compleat, the Functioning Gyro flies back to the player and despawns.
By having the Functioning Gyro spawn at your location, buffing it with super speed, stability or other boons adds more play. It also means that it acts like a gyro and not some turret is disguise that magicaly appear on your targets position.
If having no cooldown on the Functioning Gyro becomes a bit to powerfull, they could add a downtime buff that acts as a cooldown if the gyro is destroyed before returning to the player, but nothing as backbreaking as 30 sec.
Now how couBlast ld the Functioning Gyro act with bundles? Pretty simple in fact: It flies to the bundle you targeted, picks it up in a little net (like the BlastGyro), and returns to you with it, dropping it next to your feet (or auto equiping) and then despawns as it’s task is completed. It would act pretty cmuch the same with the Spirit wath orb, first attempting to get to it, picking it up and then return to you with it dangling in a net (slowed down by the orb ofcourse).
So that is pretty much how I Envisioned the Elite mechanic after first hearing about it. I love the idea of a gyro that does mudane tasks for you while you sit back and smash enemies in the face. But thea current implementation don’t seem to be something you can ply a lot around, it is more like an adept trait found on ranger.
Edit: TL:DR, this is already a ranger trait and feels kinda lame, please let the community help fixing it.
Edit2: Typo & info fix.
(edited by Are.1326)
I’m pretty sure they said you could durring the live stream. At least they said you could double stomp.
The only referance we have to “fuel” is the french article:
drone have a fuel bar and explode when depleted
It looks more like the drones degenerate health over time, in other words, their healthbars acts as a fuel bars. We might get invulnerable drones thanks to that, but I don’t count on it.
Since they can get boons I’m guessing they can take damage as well. They will probably just die to fast from AoEs and then go on a 60 sec cooldown like some of our turrets.
For anyone requesting improvements to staff animations, please state what race you are using…
Even with the recent improvements to AI, I don’t think I would use them. NPCs and AI minions can’t jump up or down ledges, and are restricted to already laid out pathways, this makes them just wander off to try walking around obstacles instead of just… flying next to you.
There is also the issue of their passive playstyle. Engineers are much more dependant on their Utilities than any other class. We can’t afford to just slot in some quality of life or pet play, we need our utilities for “weapon swap”, condi removal, stund breakers and other survivability skills.
I also always use them, used them so much that if i try to use anything else, i will instinctively hit F1 if i want to heal, and that doesn’t work out :\.
No point changing my habits now.
The question is, do you ever find yourself using medkit 1# and have you saved someones life with it?
Seeing how Engi vs Engi is in the poll, we can conclude that the voters are above average in skill level. This is important to keep in mind when looking at Engi vs the rest, especially how almost everyone have problems with mesmers and elementalists.
That character is larger than the one behind it, so this is probably an NPC. I’m guessing we have to protect her or something in the rain instance.
(im new)
What armor is OP wearing? It looks pretty awesome
Mostly magitech with gasmask helmet and atherblade shoulderpads.
Atherblade and magitech are gemstore sets. Gasmask can be bought for laurels.
If they did this, they would have to add a cooldown to the reflective bouble and move the healing turret placement heal to Clensing Burst.
If they did something like this, I think it should be X% cooldown reduction where X is the turrets current health as a percentage of it’s total health. For example if the turrets health is full, then there is no cooldown, however if the turrets health is 20% then we only get a 20% cooldown reduction.
This would however make healing turret harder to use, since we would no longer see Clensing Bursts cooldown if we pick it up, and considering that only healing turret is widely used, a lot of engineers would dislike this change.
Since you gave it a name, I’m quessing this is an idea for a trait? Where would that trait go, What would it replace?
- Move the healing from deploy healing turret into Cleansing Burst. It doesn’t feel like a healing turret if I have to explode it just to get the maximized heal.
This will not change the way people use healing turret, since picking it up keeps it safe.
I think a better solution would be to reduce the cooldown of Cleansing Burst to 5-7 sec.
That means that if you use it like most people do now you will get just the same amount of health (5000 every 15 sec, 2500 of that to allies). However, if you keep it out (much higher risk) you could get 5000 on placement, then another 2500 for you and allies every 5 sec onward until you pick it up or someone breaks it.
Let us say you have managed to keep your turret out for 105 sec, your total self heal would be 55 000. If you on the other hand had placed and picked it up again over the course of 105 sec you would get 35 000 health.
Now that is the best case senario for the engineer, more realisticly would you be forced away from it, or it would break and go on a 20 sec cooldown pretty fast.
This is all not counting regen or condition removal btw.
I tried a few combinations:
no short fuse -> Orbital Strike -> Fire Bomb -> Big Ol’ Bomb (First Orbital Strike misses)
with short fuse -> Orbital Strike -> Fire Bomb -> Big Ol’ Bomb (Big Ol’ Bomb misses)
no short fuse -> Big Ol’ Bomb -> Fire Bomb -> OS (Last Orbital Strike misses)
with short fuse ->Big Ol’ Bomb -> Orbital Strike-> Fire Bomb (All three hits)
So yes, you can do it with short fuse since Big Ol’ Bomb is not affected by Short Fuse (might be a bug).
p.s: You can not do it with static discharge or bunker down on, they will break your skill queue and make the firebomb miss (also a bug, funny how they are all over the place).
(edited by Are.1326)
Engineers healing is simply split to thin over to many abilities and traits. The way I see it, we should have 3 ways to heal allies:
- Burst heal with healing turret.
- Strong sustain heal with med-kit (requires the engineer to give up using other abilities while healing, but rewards high outgoing healing capabilities)
- Weak sustain heal with bunker down (Don’t require the engineer to sacrifice damage or self-sustain so it grants les outgoing healing than med-kit)
This three methodes covers engineers theme quite well (kits, turrets, and medpacks), thus making engineer healing unique to other classes methodes of healing.
They should replace Soothing Detonation and Medical Dispersion Field with traits that don’t fill one of the roles above. I can imagne Soothing Detonation getting replaced with “10% of healing power is converted to power, double the effect while under the effect of regeneration”.
Mortar kit attack animation was updated with todays patch. Asura have a nice recoil and I heard someone got to fire it with only one hand.
Wouldn’t that cost far more resources to create than a Engineer Elite Specialization that uses a current weapon that exists in the game?
While there are a lot of weapons that engineers could get access to, a lot of them would feel forced. Even more importantly, classes like Warrior is just running out of new weapons, and unles they start adding new ones, warriors would be forced into a magic theme.
That is why I belive we will see new weapon types in a future wave of Elite specs.
Those may work and may be possible if they plan to only release Elite Specialization for only Expansions and provide new sets of weapons per Expanion after HoT but I think they also mentioned some Elite Specialization may arrive through their Content Updates which would not give them much time to develop a bunch of new weapons and their skins to go with the weapons.
That is why I said “next elite spec wave (or one after that) ".
Also, let us not forget how long time they have spent on this elite specs. We can not expect them to release another wave of elite specs within a year.
Unless there have been offical words that I’ve not seen, then no. We havn’t heard anything about the future of engineers since before the spec patch.
Here is last months version of this thread.
Assuming the breakbar functions appropriately this will likely become less of an issue (for bosses). I still foresee/experience situations where every Tom kitten and Harry is not going to either know or care to restrain knockbacks appropriately. This is a concern that happens across game modes. In your mind, do you feel that swapping the knockback effect with something like Shrapnel or Thermo would prove more beneficial overall?
Well we have to consider what builds would want the knockback effect. As it stands, the whole Explosive line is a mess. There are to many traits that only affect one kit, or balanced around one (like shrapnel for grenades). So if you want to run a build with turrets, but don’t have mortar (because why would you take it over supply crate in a turret build), and you don’t have nades (because you want turrets…), then you don’t have many options.
My solution would be as follows:
- Traits that affects only 1 Utility skill should be opened up to all explosions.
- Traits that are to similar (glass canon and shaped charge) must change.
- Traits that add 50% or more power to an ability should just be made baseline (like siege rounds double tap or 50% extra field duration).
- Add trait line themes (like beserker and reaper) for Explotions and Crowd Control.
- The three CC traits would be one that makes CC, one that increase CC duration and one that benefit the engineer based on a good use of CC.
By adding Crowd Control as a part of Explosives, we can put the turret knockback into one of the CC traits. It is strange that we don’t have any CC traits besides this one minor considering how important CC is to engineer.
Look, we’ll soon (maybe even before HoT) see all current mobs with defiance get the new breakbar so this will not be a problem on bosses (it will only be a boon in fact). So for thrash mobs just pick the healing turret up manualy (gives more health in total anyway) or place it down so the knockback knocks them into a wall or is out of range (the radius is tiny).