Guild Wars 2

Dahkeus.8243:

Just be aware that it may be a bit of an uphill transition, depending on the profession you move to. Guardian may be balanced, but it’s also a relatively simple profession to play (particularly as bunker). I’ve been transitioning off my bunker guard lately to put more focus on thief and it’s had a pretty heavy impact on my win ratio while I get back in the swing of being a total squishy role with a very heavy active defense, lol.

I don’t entirely agree with this only because as I’ve stated before, without any sort of meaningful rng/passive defenses, it’s very difficult to play the Guardian properly since you can’t rely on rng. Screwing up a long cd skill really takes its toll. Now I do agree it’ll be an uphill transition due to the change in mechanics.

I really appreciate it Raven, that looks like something i’d be interested in. But i’m going to miss my Guard. If only we didn’t delve so deep into conditions this wouldn’t be such an issue.

Not a fan of all the professions playstyles honestly.

Power necro could be fun.

Chase.8415:

If you want to re-roll, play necromancer as everyone seems to be rolling engineer now and necros destroy then without effort.

I don’t think I want to fall into the category of conditions. I still enjoy power so i’ll see if I can find something a little more fun.

Myst.5783:

If your MMR is tanked its a good time to roll a thief and kitten all over the PvErs

I has nothing to do with MMR. To me, this indicates nothing in terms of a players skill but rather what profession is utilized to exploit it.

Hey guys, just to clarify, this isn’t an “I quit” thread but rather a transition.

I’ve played Guardian since beta with over 3.6k hours on that profession alone. I’ve transitioned from bunker, to hybrid dps(support), to full meditation-dps. I’m tired of bunkering and since the release of this patch, i’m getting hammered even more by conditions with little recourse. I’m taking a break for a while from my Guard and picking up another profession to master until I feel things even out(if they ever do).

Not asking for buffs, just the overall transition towards a more tanky meta without having to sacrifice is getting to me. To this day I feel the Guardian is still the most balanced profession since there’s almost zero gimmicks or rng attached. Everything done by this profession(at least from a dps standpoint) isn’t triggered randomly. For me to do any meaningful damage, sacrifices must be made in other areas. I feel this is balanced and should be how all professions should have to utilize. If you want to do damage, sacrifice defense and vice versa. It’s really a simple concept that just isn’t realized in this game.

I really enjoy this game so i’ll keep playing but more than likely as something else. I still haven’t figured it out quite yet. I do love the QOL changes though.

I gotta say, after playing a few matches in sPvP, conditions have gotten quite a bit worse. I’ve decided to retire my Guardian until I feel it’s appropriate to play in a future meta. I’m tired of being subpar when playing power and now it’s even worse with the sigil/rune changes that made conditions even stronger. Things have gone completely backwards and waiting over a year is more than enough.

I think i’m going to give Elementalist a shot, they look like fun. Hopefully you guys continue to enjoy profession.

It’s true but as you know, without a decent variation of conditions, it’s easily cleansed.

Aza.2105:

Arken.3725:

It’s rather interesting because Virtues were supposed to be a selfish mechanic when in solo-play and yet the actives are much more potent regardless of play.

Sadly the passive virtues are only good after traiting into the virtue tree. I have to admit that supreme justice and permeating wrath are amazing traits. Unfortunately guardian’s condition builds are less than optimal. How is that for a contradiction?

Supreme Justice is fairly decent but as you say, condi-guard is incredibly lackluster. I find Permeating Wrath to be a bit backwards, shouldn’t the AoE of fire be around your target and not you?

It’s rather interesting because Virtues were supposed to be a selfish mechanic when in solo-play and yet the actives are much more potent regardless of play.

Because staff isn’t a mobile weapon. It requires you to stand still within the symbol for 4 seconds to gain the maximum benefit. No one in their right minds would do this as it would severely hinder your combat mobility.

MercilessLemurs.7459:

As a guardian, even if you aren’t condition, well timed burns and crowd control should beat a thief every time, or at least force them to pull off. As for necro’s, necro’s(especially condi) are a hard counter to guardians. That’s just the way the game is and it isn’t particularly unfair in my opinion. The game needs a class to tear apart supports, and necros fit the role.

If you’re speccing into that role then yes. I do believe that if you spec differently(dps), you should have a fair chance.

Edit: Having hard counters such as the Necromancer class when playing as a Guardian really is a bit off. The necro should have the advantage but not completely decimate.

That’s understandable. I’d love some form of reliable swiftness. I currently spec 30 into zeal just for the extra power while gaining no benefit from the minors since i’m using 1-handed Weapons. I truly believe that all of them need to be removed and new ones implemented.

It is medium unless you put forth a ton of power in which your sustain will drop significantly.

Current weaknesses:

-No soft CC
-Very little mobility
-Medium damage
-Most melee-centric profession(due to terrible ranged weaponry)
-Low health
-Situational Sustain(Ah only works with a bunch of people around and with staff, Monks Focus is not a sustainable spec but rather for burst healing due to 3/4 meditations have long cd’s.)
-Unable to spec into a viable condition damage role.

There is no other profession in this game with this many downsides. I will say though that you shouldn’t be able to do everything. However, if you’re going to make a profession 99% melee-centric, it’s melee better be kitten amazing.

Hey guys, i’m looking for a team either on NA or EU. I prefer to play dps but if necessary, i’ll switch to bunker. My IGN is Arken Elric, thank you.

For a GM? As much as I think Guardians need mobility, that’s asking a lot for something so small.

Edit: The minor traits themselves are also what’s keeping people from going deep into Zeal. I’d like to see a rework of these.

I’ll be sticking with my Guardian. While playing other professions is paramount to knowing how they fight, this profession always has a place in my heart. I can understand why someone would switch. The fun-factor is through the roof when playing a Warrior but for me, the challenge is much higher playing a Guardian.

When you play any spec, even dps you literally have no gimmicky defenses(procced when critted/stunned or whatever). It’s one of the reasons why it could be considered fair and balanced.

Hey guys, just did another podcast! This one is significantly shorter than the last so hopefully you guys will have the time to let us know how it is. Enjoy.

Does anyone remember back in early beta(maybe alpha videos) the third hit used to be where your sword was elongated with blue energy instead of what it is now? I remember seeing it on a Charr Guardian a long time ago. Wish we could go back to that.

Stagnation is a huge issue. I just believe the current weaknesses of a melee profession(outside of bunker) are too extreme. This compounding with a significant amount of traits that I think are near-useless.

Stable is a good way to put it. I don’t believe the Guardian has ever been considered “op” since the game’s release. So in that regard, yes it is nice to know that you’re playing a profession that doesn’t rely on incredibly powerful traits/skills. But just as to compound on what Obtena stated earlier, it’s been stagnant.

Traits scattered all over the place, plenty of useless ones to boot. Many of which are boring(% based traits). Outside of shouts, you have very little to no boon uptime. Mobility seems to be non-existent(outside of runesets). Zero soft-cc for one of the most melee-centric professions in the game. And of course, any decent ranged weaponry.

I love the Guardian profession, I doubt i’ll ever switch. This doesn’t mean I don’t have concerns just like everyone else that shouldn’t be addressed. I’d love it if we could get a few people from the Guardian forum and come up with some changes.

I shouldn’t have to commit a rune set just to obtain some remanence of mobility. For the most melee centric profession, the lack of such mobility and soft-cc bothers me. I say the most melee centric because of our terrible ranged weaponry.

Aside from bunkering, I don’t think Guardian’s are in a good place. With lack of mobility, condition application, soft-cc, low tier health and the fewest(meaningful) passives in the game. No other profession has this many weaknesses.

Also, let me elaborate on what I mean by passives. Outside of Vigorous precision(which is getting nerfed), the Guardian relies on nothing outside of using skills properly. While I consider this balanced, the other professions have a plethora of powerful passives/procs that require zero though on that players part(IP, Dhuumfire, HS, Prot on dodge, ect.) All of these have a significant effect on the player/enemy.

See a pattern here? I’m not asking for more passives but instead to tone down the others in response to the Guardian lacking of such powerful effects.

redslion.9675:

Bash.7291:

In personal experience, versus good mesmers, and also playing a mesmer vs good guardians, yes. Engineers and Mesmers seem to be our hard counter classes, at least when played well. Kind of like how we counter any minion classes (like spirit ranger/MM necro) Though once again, this is personal opinion.

Wait, I have the opposite experience as med: I tear through mesmers and can’t do anything against mm necro.

It’s dependant on your spec. Without any significant AoE pressure, spirits/mm will outlast you. Medi-Guards don’t have too much AoE to begin with(outside of SC).

Swagger.1459:

Arken.3725:

Alright guys, I made a podcast with one of my friends (Swagg as known on the forums) about the recent proposed changes.

http://www.twitch.tv/bigheart_gamer/c/3935302

It’s quite long(2 1/2 hours) but luckily most of it you can just listen to while playing. However, I used props to describe each profession throughout the cast. Some of them may be appropriate…you decide.

my review of the podcast…

poorly presented. embarrassing to watch. both of you sound obnoxious, immature and used unnecessarily offensive speech at times. both you and swagg are like the guys who always come in last place at every marathon, who are now trying to lead and educate runners on how to be successful at marathons. I don’t know what’s worse, your presentation and attitude, or the fact that you had on a guest who spammed the forum with a bunch of poorly thought out gibberish that only sounded good on paper to you and a couple of other low quality gamers clinging to spvp while the overwhelming majority of veteran and top level players moved on.

I personally apologize if we came off as snobby or immature. Our intention was to make a relatively humorous podcast with our own opinions of the upcoming feature patch. We will remember next time to try and turn down the vulgarity and just get to the point. Thank you.

Aberrant.6749:

Last time I read swagg’s post I asked him how many hours he had on the classes he was proposing massive skill revamps for… and he got never answered. Hard to take him seriously after that.

I understand your sentiment and I honestly don’t know how much time was spent either. All I can say is I believe we tried to be as unbiased as possible. Now obviously this is impossible as we discussed the various changes and new traits. If you(or anyone else) has any input, please let us know.

But isn’t that how it’s supposed to be? Outplaying your opponent through proper skill usage? While I get that you’ll be missing out on some serious traits, the former statement gives me hope of such skillful play.

And that’s fine Phys but the ramifications when interrupting are substantial. Not only for the enemy but for the Mesmer as well. I’m all for counterplay, it just seems like there should be a way to avoid it.

Edit: I’d like to think I have a decent grasp on other professions, obviously not as much as Guardian. When fighting against such specs I try to find ways to counter it myself and I still haven’t found a way, even as a Medi-Guard.

Oh no, I appreciate your input. This is sort of what this thread is for. The problem I see with preemptive counters is that most of it is it luck. Also, I don’t think you can actually bait it since the range is 1200 and if a smart Mesmer see’s you without block,stab, invul, ect then it’s going to take its toll.

Edit: I guess the only real counter would be instant skills themselves?

I stated earlier that Healing power scaled terribly but 1k is still quite a bit. If you’re talking about from a Guardian’s standpoint that uses all instant skills then yes, it is easier to avoid. I’m talking about the overall picture here.

Edit: And it is true, Power lock has very little counterplay once activated. The skill ceiling of this is very low to due its nature of being instant.

We all have our own opinions on how to improve this game, there’s nothing wrong with that. We honestly just winged it, didn’t realize it would take so long.

Yeah, he’s a great guy with a lot of passion. It was my first time talking to him and I could definitely tell he wanted this game to improve.

Alright guys, I made a podcast with one of my friends (Swagg as known on the forums) about the recent proposed changes.

http://www.twitch.tv/bigheart_gamer/c/3935302

It’s quite long(2 1/2 hours) but luckily most of it you can just listen to while playing. However, I used props to describe each profession throughout the cast. Some of them may be appropriate…you decide.

I can’t see myself using any of these traits in spvp. Nearly all of them are useless in comparison to the GM’s we already have.

-Granting more burning damage when you cannot bury it makes this trait even less appealing. If you want to make Condi-Guard useful, add more conditions.

-Scaling ret off of Condition doesn’t seem like it’ll be very strong, especially in spvp. Not to mention that when you’re speccing condi-guard, you don’t have much access to boons overall.

-Granting Aegis every 20 seconds upon block is incredibly underwhelming. Mainly because it’s competing against AH/MF which are infinitely stronger. This could be useful in WvW but that’s about it.

-3000 more Vitality….very boring. Also it’s competing against one of the(if not the) strongest traits we have. This one felt like it was just thrown in there without any thought-process involved.

-15% of anything in this game isn’t really noticeable. While more endurance is useful, this won’t deter Guardian’s from using actual traits that benefit themselves(and the team).

I’d only agree that Guardians being in a good spot when we’re talking about bunkering. Literally any other spec is completely underwhelming. When you lack soft-cc, mobility, condition application and reliable burst damage while having low-tier health, it becomes an issue.

When looking at Guardian’s, outside of Vigorous precision(which is getting nerfed), we literally have no decent passive procs. There’s nothing to rely upon in your traits to give you any passive benefit. Now I personally despise these kinds of traits but it looks like we’re just going to add more. I honestly believe it’s time to update the Virtues to apply such boons since they’re still very weak.

I find this trait to be useless and uninteresting. Not to mention it has to compete with BP and PoV, good luck with that. If Anet is looking to address the low health pool, this isn’t the way to do it. I like having a low health pool, it promotes more careful play. I also believe you should be rewarded for such play. I think this one should be completely redone.

I like the cripple on symbol ticks, would definitely help with our CC issue. I’m still unsure of the Zealous Blade scaling. It just seems like it would be a slightly more powerful version of Warrior’s Sprint(adept).

It would require careful testing. We need to take into account the damage done, how hard it is to land said damage, how mobile the Guardian is, CC of any kind, ect. Reason being is because when you look at say HS, there’s no effort at all but a ton of gain. If there needs to be significant effort required, the reward should follow suit.

Edit: A little off-topic; i’m a huge advocate of risk vs. reward. As I stated above, if the effort is substantial, the reward should be too. This should apply to all aspects of play in this game.

Edit again: I honestly believe that the % of damage done is probably the fairest way to go. Prevents one from being both tank/bursty.

Easily the best build I’ve ever seen. Bravo.

A % done could definitely change things up a bit. Encourage dps Guards to not be afraid of investing so heavily into power. We’re looking to move away from the bunker meta by allowing for a decent amount of sustain. Percentage from damage done would promote this since you couldn’t spec bunker if you wanted any meaningful sustain.

Edit: You could remove the scaling because even with power, you could just take soldiers and still be tanky with insane sustain.

Unfortunately for me, I pretty much left symbol builds in the dust after fighting intelligent players. The healing wasn’t enough, couldn’t keep anyone in it, it felt like I was confined to a small circle. In a mobile game like this, it’s a little unacceptable. Not to mention the benefit just isn’t there. If it were up to me, symbols would be changed entirely.

I replied, but yes we have been derailing this thread a little bit. I do like the generalized discussion of how to improve this profession.

When fighting in an area it is a bit easier to utilize your symbols better, but in most situations, you’re fighting one other person on point while the rest are AoEing you down. I think what we’ve come to an agreement about is the fact that the potential damage is there but that’s the case with a lot of the Guardian’s abilities. Just in my own opinion I consider symbols to be a hinderance that promotes static gameplay.

I think it would help with the cc problem Guardians have for sure. Just the biggest problem with symbols is keeping anyone with half a brain in them for more than a second. It never happens. Potential damage could be high but it’s nearly impossible with how mobile everyone is

I disagree about symbols being powerful. Not only is it difficult to keep someone in it, the damage is easily mitigated through armor/health. It’s not front-loaded. If it applied some sort of condition then I could see it being strong.

Are you referring to sustainability Crazy?

Alright, let me try to get through the last couple of posts. I just want to reiterate that the Guardian DOES NOT have the highest protection uptime at all. This would go to either Rangers, PU Mesmers, Elementalists and to some degree, Engineers. Guardians actually have little uptime due to the high cd of the skills that apply protection.

I understand what you’re saying Cnaeus about Hammer but as I’ve stated earlier, it’s reliability for protection is terrible at best in pvp. I also agree that my original change to ZB was a bit much, the last thing we need is another HS. I’d still like to see it scale with power and have a decent coefficient.

The ability to have it all without giving something up isn’t something i’m looking for. As Cnaeus stated, my BIGGEST gripe in this game is passive traits that give too much benefit to the user/hinderance to the enemy. I hope Guardian’s never receive such a trait during the games lifetime. I’m trying to figure out a balance for this trait to make it appealing for users past the 10 point mark in Zeal.