Guild Wars 2

#1: Make it faster, turn it into a fire field
#2: Longer range, more dmg
#3: Shorter cast-time, shorter cd
#4: Turn it into an aoe KB instead of a single-target
#5: Cast while on move, have the inside circle do damage.

Done.

PowerBottom.5796:

Arken.3725:

Not to mention 3/5 Hammer skills are defensive in nature will putting out significant damage.

I have a much bigger problem with these than with some passive procs. ANet really messed up big on the balance of many of the skills that are defensive, but also offensive:

- Sword 3 on rev
- Hammer (2), 3 and 4 on Scrapper

Just compare those skills to what we had before in terms of blocks/evades, like Shield block on War or Gear Shield on Engi. The most similar skill to those was Sword 2 on Mesmer, but the Mesmer was at least rooted during it.

They also promote bad play and make it really easy to be offensive: Nothing can really punish you for using those skills.

I have a bigger problem with strong passive procs more than anything but I see value in your assessment.

I’d love the same skills as Engie hammer since no matter how you buff Guardian’s version, it won’t even be close.

You start by nerfing passive procs (which were mentioned in a long thread a while ago). Engie relies too much on it. IP, Protection Injection, Self-regulating defenses, Adaptive Armor. Not to mention 3/5 Hammer skills are defensive in nature will putting out significant damage.

Biggest thing across all professions, NERF/REMOVE passive procs!

What the heck is all of this?
-What about all of the terrible traits, at least half of them are absolute garbage.
-What about the clunky weapons and utilities.

What’s it been, 4 months? This is it?

Saiyan.1704:

Arken.3725:

Not to be a damper but Burn guard was never a thing, it was similar to the current Medi-trap DH that was gimmicky at first and then easily countered after people knew how to deal with it.

It was a thing when Tage first brought it in the finals tourney. If only he equipped Supreme Justice and PW traits instead of that poor build and playstyle he brought to the game… he would have performed better. Thanks to his team making it to the finals, Metabattle coppied that poor build of his.

I’m fairly certain he only used it once and that was it. Doesn’t make it viable. Just like how Medi-trapper was utilized once and never again.

Indure.5410:

^Agreed, more of a problem with me liking to add adjectives to words for the sake of wanting more adjectives.

This legit made me laugh a little too hard. I’m sure you mean well just I have a bad habit of nitpicking like that. I apologize.

@ Indure:

Your reasoning behind how signets should be treated like virtues is due to virtues strong passive effects? This one seems like an oxymoron to be honest lol. Virtue’s passives(for the most part) are a joke, especially Courage.

I do agree with change to signets and the trait itself, seems nice overall.

Edit: Signets should be self-empowering(Warrior signets) on both fronts unless the actives offensive part is incredibly effective(Necro signets as an example).

Not to be a damper but Burn guard was never a thing, it was similar to the current Medi-trap DH that was gimmicky at first and then easily countered after people knew how to deal with it.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Azoqu.8917:

Arken.3725:

The design behind concepts doesn’t make sense in this game. On one hand you have a profession like Warriors whose concept is essentially to be the master of nearly everything and then you have Guardians which only really have support and defense. The limit behind the Guardian concept is terribly vague and really hinders Guardian balance while say Warriors are free reign to receive much more in comparison.

This always ticks me off when I think about it. PS might giving should of been something the Guardian should have done and not the Warrior. Makes more sense because Guardian was supposed to be the boon class (though that is now Revenant). All Anet had to do was remove the stupid ICD from that one trait…

Getting rid of that ICD would make the guardian pretty much unkillable when combined with altruistic healing, even in just a 2 man group.

It would have been much easier and more balanced to simply make the might applied last longer. 10 seconds duration would have been fine, especially once you facor in strength or holebrak runes.

What? That’s 70 health per boon, you’d need constantly crit 5 times every second to equal that of a Warriors Healing signet.

Edit: Not to mention you’d have to go into a less than desirable tree that is Honor to get it.

The design behind concepts doesn’t make sense in this game. On one hand you have a profession like Warriors whose concept is essentially to be the master of nearly everything and then you have Guardians which only really have support and defense. The limit behind the Guardian concept is terribly vague and really hinders Guardian balance while say Warriors are free reign to receive much more in comparison.

Careful, lets not forget the Might-stacking nerf of 2015! You know, the ability to stack moderate amounts(through blocking) was essentially decimated? Because Guardian’s are SOOOO good at that.

Sarcasm off

Honestly, i’d like to have faith but just like I stated above, i’m skeptical. Strong passives still exist among other classes(engie/rev), Guardians are now the slowest profession without compensation to other areas, sustain is maintained through long cd burst intervals to which our demise is essentially secured once said cd’s are gone(shield of wrath)

Not to mention nerfing skills that weren’t even viable in high-tier play to begin with. I’m sorry if you’re too slow to avoid a traps damage, it’s REALLY not that hard. There’s a myriad of traits/kits are are utterly outdated/useless that i’ll be top-dollar won’t be touched.

Has it been confirmed in 2 weeks? Since my weapon suggestions are just above, i’ll post the traits as well.

Zeal
Minors
All of them: All of them being symbol related yet you have WoP in Honor makes this line even more unappealing. All of these need to be overhauled or slightly buffed with symbol related weapons(hammer mostly)

Majors
Wrathful Spirit: Change this to protection or something else that’s actually useful.

Zealous Scepter: This discourages you from utilizing your Justice’s passive. Not to mention the duration is too short for any real might-stacking and keeping yourself ONLY in scepter is a bad idea. Change this to apply to all weapons.

Fiery Wrath: Still surprised this got nerfed to 7%. Buffing this to 10% might be too much.

Binding jeopardy: Without consistent blinds or immob’s, this is very underwhelming. Not asking for more access but maybe increase the stacks/duration instead.

Zealous Blade: Increase the damage to 10%, SIGNIFICANTLY increase the base and scaling. This thing is pitiful.

Kindled Zeal: Weird conversion trait.

Expeditious spirit: This one should be obvious.

Shattered Aegis: Just like Binding Jeopardy, unless you have consistent access to aegis, this is underwhelming.

Symbolic Avenger: 10% is pitiful for a trait that only really works with Hammer(consistent symbol access).

Valor
Minors

Valorous Defense: Change to grant protection at 50% threshold.

Courageous Return: Rework, downed state/revival traits are useless in actual combat.

That, or move this into Honor.

Might of the Protector: Remove the ICD, 1 stack of might per block

Majors

Strength of the fallen needs some love, downed traits just never see play.

Stalwart Defender: Change this add more functionality to the shield like Warrior’s shield trait does for them.

Strength in Numbers: Increase this to 200 since Toughness scales terribly.

Communal Defenses: Increase radius to 600

Altruistic healing: Maybe merge Force of Will with this?

Retributive Armor: If this was similar to Adaptive Armor you’d see this actually utilized, just sayin’

Honor
Minors

Selfless Daring: Increase both the base and scaling. This is the only dodge trait in the game that actually requires heavy investment to be useful.(Like virtue’s)

Purity of Body: Overhaul completely, nothing stacks higher than 50% from vigor so this is redundant and it encourages you to never use your Resolve Virtue.

Majors

-Merge Invigorated Bulwark with Protector’s impact

-Honorable staff: Have it be 20% boon duration regardless of what weapon you’re in.

-Pure of Heart: Change to Regen stacks instead of burst healing.

-Empowering Might: Remove the ICD, increase duration to 8 seconds.

-Writ of Persistence should be in zeal, not sure what to put in its place.

-Force of Will: uh….

Virtue’s
Virtue’s Base: Reduce the cd’s appropriately(not 100% on this one), and boost the passive benefits as well. Virtue’s are inherently poor versions of signets. They provide
VERY little benefit passively and only if you trait into that line will you actually benefit from popping its active use.

Inspired Virtue should be baseline.

Virtue of Retribution: Needs to be overhauled, retaliation is by far the most useless of all boons(in spvp).

Power of the Virtuous: Remove the damage increase and give us back our Boon
Duration that was taken away.
Adepts

Unscathed Contender: Reduce to 10% but while under the effects of some other boon that can be reliably obtained.

Radiance
Retaliatory Subconscious: Overhaul to give 3 seconds of protection on a 5 sec ICD.
Masters/GM’s

Merge Supreme Justice and Permeating Wrath.

Absolute Resolution: Boost the passive by a greater amount

Glacial Heart: Overhaul to maybe increase attack speed on hammer with a cd reduction.

Battle Presence: Allow Guardians to keep the passive on Resolve, spread to allies.

I’ll start with traits since I believe the Guardian has some of the worst(outdated) traits across all professions.

Minors:

Renewed Justice: Overhaul this, traits that only work against dead/downed opponents are worthless in combat.

Radiant Power: Revert this back to a 10% dmg bonus before the trait changes.

Guardians lost 4 damage modifiers and this would be welcomed.

Majors:

Inner Fire: Reduce ICD to 5, add swiftness to this as well. (other classes can have permanent swiftness, why not Guardians?)

Right-hand strength: Remove the 20% cd reduction on sword, add something that makes each 1h weapon unique.

Healers Retribution: Remove retal, add protection. Retal is useless

Retribution: Change to when you have Might or something else that’s not useless.

Wrath of Justice: Reduce CD to 20.

Amplified Wrath: Remove the burn-on-block, increase burn damage to 20-25%.

Guardians are supposed to be the masters of Fire and since we can’t bury it, it should be exceptionally powerful.

Perfect Inscriptions: uh…..

Radiant Retaliation: uh….

I’m sure I missed a lot. There are SOOO many outdated/useless traits/skills that you’re essentially choosing between the lesser of 3 evils in terms of traits and nothing when it comes to kits.

Edit: Here are my views on DH

DragonHunter

Minors:

Defender’s Dogma: This thing is just another useless trait that probably needs an overhaul

Majors:

Soaring Devastation: The damage is nice but it’s all this thing gives, no actual benefit to the passive side of Resolve. Not to mention it’s difficult to land on an enemy. Also, you’ll almost never want to land on an enemy since it’s more necessary for self-sustain

Dulled Senses: This thing is just funny. Too much stipulation on less than desirable conditions.

Zealots Aggression: This thing has too low of a cripple duration and discourages you from using your justice’s active, badddd.

Bulwark: Just like Soaring Devastation, what actual benefit does this provide that’s worth it?

All 3 GM’s:

Hunter’s fort is a terrible defensive trait that half of it is never active(dmg reduction)

BGH: Again, this is a tiny bit of dmg that you can’t pair with zealot’s aggression. Not significant enough

Heavy Light: A near-RNG based KB tied to nothing with only 1 stack of stab that’s being thrown around like candy on other classes? No thanks.

Shaogin.2679:

Arken.3725:

How is my evidence anecdotal? I’ve, quite literally, listed every single trait/skill that’s either incredibly passive/instant with little-to-no counter play.

-Want to talk about regen? What about backpack Regenerator? A passive regen that CANNOT be dispelled that stacks with other forms of regen.
-Dhuumfire at least required you to be in a temporary state
-Turrets were never listed but had amazing decap potential, thanks for further reinforcing my point
-Nothing begins to toy with Ele but the mere fact that it comes close is a joke in of itself. Name another profession that can touch either?
-You’ve yet to name any meaningful skills, just another player stating a “fact” without backing anything up.

I never stated they were unbeatable but rather stating facts based on the traits/skills I’ve listed. You haven’t listed anything aside from Dhuumfire to further your argument(Very weak I might add). Please, name something even close to the effectiveness of their traits aside from Ele, please.

You’ve literally done nothing to reinforce your argument throughout this whole discussion. Next time you want to have an argument, bring facts, not opinions.

Edit: I usually don’t attack players personally but you’re so blind that even Stevie wonder questions his own inability to see while listening to your argument.

Brain dead builds insist that the build itself can be played at a high-level and be incredibly effective….not sure where i’m seeing DH’s anymore.

Sorry to butt in, but it does seem like you discriminate against Engineers just a bit there.

• Backpack Regenerator is not limited to Engi. Other passive healing (some even stronger) included Warrior Healing Signet and Adrenal Health, Elementalist Soothing Mist, Guardian Virtue of Resolve. All of these are countered with Poison btw.

• Dhuumfire when first introduced was literally exactly like Incendiary Ammo, but was much more devastating due to the Necromancer’s already superior condi builds.

• Turrets only worked well against noobs, and again was not an Engi-specific issue, unless you are forgetting pre-nerfs MM Necro, Spirit Ranger, and phantasm Mesmer. All of which were low skill builds relying on AI, all of which were more effective than Turret Engi.

• Both Warrior and Guardian were often on par with Ele, all of which being meta classes in literally every game mode during extended periods of time.

• Lastly, I don’t believe I ever seen the Engi community defend their own passive mechanics. Many posts have been made suggesting alternatives involving active mechanics, only to be ignored by Anet. At this point, Engies are more in a position where these passive mechanics have become mandatory due to the Engineer being balanced around their existance, often to the disapproval of the Engineer community.

So as you can see, sure there have been bad Engineer builds, but that is something common to ALL GW2 classes. Therefore, there is no reason to discriminate against Engineers so harshly.

You’re more than welcome to butt in, it’s a discussion and i’m happy you decided to join. I’m just pointing out every iteration has been linked to incredibly powerful passives/instant skills. I’ve even listed them as proof. I’ll comment on your list below.

-You’re right, it’s not limited to just one profession but you forget that this one will always be utilized when a bundle is equipped, most others go away with their respective skill activation.

-It was but now it’s not so that discussion is pretty much buried. Not to mention, Engineer has just as much, if not more condition variety than Necromancer.

-Turrets worked well against everyone, it’s why it was such a joke to play. I’m not forgetting Phantasmal mesmers, spirits and the like. I never even listed turrets into my original argument, you guys did.

-Guardian was NEVER on par with ele in terms of anything, completely delusional. Warrior(Shoutbow specific) was close.

-I also never stated they defended them, just pointing out they exist and in strong numbers.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Arken.3725:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

sinject.4607:

worst:
any meta engineer spec from release to now.

having to watch one or play against one is nothing but boring and always has been. passive defenses for years, obscene amount of low-counterplay CC (slickshoes is still one of the cheapest skills in the game), the worst steal skill in the game, etc.

I’ve never had any respect for engineer players because of how easy it is, especially now with scrapper in the mix; it has a laughable risk factor since the profession practically plays itself in most instances. whether if it was the turret build which literally played itself (and something everyone was happy to see go) or now scrapper which a wood log on a keyboard could play competently, engineer has always represented “the easy way” to success.

The best: power thief, warrior, mesmer, ranger (pre-spec update), necro, ele

pretty much anything power damage oriented with higher risks has always been fun to play and watch. that being said, DPS guardian does not fall into this category because it’s not high risk in the slightest and never has been. Burn guard was 100x more fun to play against than power guard/DH because it was high risk. Druid can’t make this list either because it’s power variant is still sleazy as can be with drastic oversustain and overrewarding AI.

You have a child like understanding of engineer, but a perfect understanding of celestial amulet and durability runes.

Technically he’s not wrong. I’ll explain why!

First iteration of Engineer was SOLEY based around 1 single trait, wanna know what that was? Incendiary Powder! A completely unavoidable trait that did massive damage to you without any thought-process what-so-ever.

Next iteration was Celestial Rifle which also utilized said unavoidable trait with a weapon(rifle) that utilized another unavoidable bit of CC(unless you had a lucky dodge, block or whatever). Not to mention the instant nature of slick shoes and spamming grenades at your feet!

And finally, we’ve come to Scrapper! A line that has some of the strongest defensive passives I’ve ever seen. Protection on heal, permanent 300 toughness with -20% condi-dmg and insane regen based upon your speed. This all coupled with some more insane passive defenses from Protection Injection and Self-regulating defenses!

So no, the man is absolutely correct in his evaluation of Engineer. I even went as to kindly list why based on Facts. You’re welcome.

Edit: I didn’t even list all of the BS, just some off-the-top of my head. Lets not forget the insane boon uptime and variety!

Nice anecdotal evidence.
Nice line up of offending traits that are all out measured and don’t hold a candle to similar traits in their era.

Incendiary was a poor mans dhuumfire.
Turrets were an even poorer man spirits or minions.
Boon up time and protection does even begin to toy with ele.
Insane regen..you mean like passive, non interruptable revenant? or more like guardian regen+elite?..or do you mean more like warrior regen? Or are we talking ele regen for 40+ seconds? Or necro shroud regen?Which regen are we talking about that engineers is far more insane?
All the efficiency you speak of all come from combo fields and elixirs. In other words move away from that set play style and you’re gonna fail.

Hell, there is a hybrid warrior video in their forums which illustrates even the most far field build can be made a sustain machine once you place celestial and durability runes on it. In earlier emanations of the game it was lyssa runes, before that it was something else blah blah blah.

The point is engineers are far from unbeatable. In their hey day of decap the ever present hambow made short work of them. A vanilla necro made short work of them.
In the turret area another brainless spec MM rendered them chaotic and uncontrollable. Hell, even one wall of reflection cause all the turrets to destroy themselves.

A good player with sound hotkey set up will excel with engineer, but they would also excel with any other profession. An average player will only do well with one specific set up and rune selection that totally smooths over their inexperienced play style. However, this has been shown on pretty much every profession forum to be the case. Slap on celestial amulet,..if your feeling edging then maybe take marauder for the toughness, but definitely don’t leave home without durability runes and you’ll be O.K.

It is not specific to engineer at all. That’s why I still get my stomps on them, I see other people get their stomps and see them face down in WvW..because they are far from invincible. Play one for 4-6 days and you’ll know exactly what ruins their day. The same as playing a capable monk in gw1 taught you how to effectively shut one down if you faced one. In no version of the game has a player who understands engineer had problems with eliminating one. Your photo only shows arguably the most brainless build (Dragonhunter with traps) calling someone else a brainless player.

However if you feel they are easy win, then your opinion is noted. I’d advise you play one more full time and then face them again and see just how predictable they are. Play against one especially as a corruption reaper they become almost laughable at how easily they can be spanked and sent on their way.

How is my evidence anecdotal? I’ve, quite literally, listed every single trait/skill that’s either incredibly passive/instant with little-to-no counter play.

-Want to talk about regen? What about backpack Regenerator? A passive regen that CANNOT be dispelled that stacks with other forms of regen.
-Dhuumfire at least required you to be in a temporary state
-Turrets were never listed but had amazing decap potential, thanks for further reinforcing my point
-Nothing begins to toy with Ele but the mere fact that it comes close is a joke in of itself. Name another profession that can touch either?
-You’ve yet to name any meaningful skills, just another player stating a “fact” without backing anything up.

I never stated they were unbeatable but rather stating facts based on the traits/skills I’ve listed. You haven’t listed anything aside from Dhuumfire to further your argument(Very weak I might add). Please, name something even close to the effectiveness of their traits aside from Ele, please.

You’ve literally done nothing to reinforce your argument throughout this whole discussion. Next time you want to have an argument, bring facts, not opinions.

Edit: I usually don’t attack players personally but you’re so blind that even Stevie wonder questions his own inability to see while listening to your argument.

Brain dead builds insist that the build itself can be played at a high-level and be incredibly effective….not sure where i’m seeing DH’s anymore.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

sinject.4607:

worst:
any meta engineer spec from release to now.

having to watch one or play against one is nothing but boring and always has been. passive defenses for years, obscene amount of low-counterplay CC (slickshoes is still one of the cheapest skills in the game), the worst steal skill in the game, etc.

I’ve never had any respect for engineer players because of how easy it is, especially now with scrapper in the mix; it has a laughable risk factor since the profession practically plays itself in most instances. whether if it was the turret build which literally played itself (and something everyone was happy to see go) or now scrapper which a wood log on a keyboard could play competently, engineer has always represented “the easy way” to success.

The best: power thief, warrior, mesmer, ranger (pre-spec update), necro, ele

pretty much anything power damage oriented with higher risks has always been fun to play and watch. that being said, DPS guardian does not fall into this category because it’s not high risk in the slightest and never has been. Burn guard was 100x more fun to play against than power guard/DH because it was high risk. Druid can’t make this list either because it’s power variant is still sleazy as can be with drastic oversustain and overrewarding AI.

You have a child like understanding of engineer, but a perfect understanding of celestial amulet and durability runes.

Technically he’s not wrong. I’ll explain why!

First iteration of Engineer was SOLEY based around 1 single trait, wanna know what that was? Incendiary Powder! A completely unavoidable trait that did massive damage to you without any thought-process what-so-ever.

Next iteration was Celestial Rifle which also utilized said unavoidable trait with a weapon(rifle) that utilized another unavoidable bit of CC(unless you had a lucky dodge, block or whatever). Not to mention the instant nature of slick shoes and spamming grenades at your feet!

And finally, we’ve come to Scrapper! A line that has some of the strongest defensive passives I’ve ever seen. Protection on heal, permanent 300 toughness with -20% condi-dmg and insane regen based upon your speed. This all coupled with some more insane passive defenses from Protection Injection and Self-regulating defenses!

So no, the man is absolutely correct in his evaluation of Engineer. I even went as to kindly list why based on Facts. You’re welcome.

Edit: I didn’t even list all of the BS, just some off-the-top of my head. Lets not forget the insane boon uptime and variety!

Purification is far superior in a multitude of situations. More healing, dazes, can be placed before hand and potentially have a 2nd charge up. Granted it won’t mitigate damage during the duration, there are so many unblockable skills in this game it’s hard to justify Shelter anymore.

Edit: Also, Hunter’s fort is still superior to Heavy Light even without shelter.

It can but you’d have to rid the game of every strong passive to make it so while also looking at forgiving skills. If it were me, i’d remove those passive’s first so that every fight would be determined by the player, not the class.

Edit: I’m biased towards my Guardian because when I look at the trait-lines associated with this profession, I cannot find a single strong passive that decides fights for me. (Heavy Light is annoying, not strong for some of you thinking so)

It does apply the passive cripple WITH burning, it doesn’t replace it. You’re also correct in assuming that it makes no sense to run both Zealot’s Aggression and BGH.

@Aggrostemma.1703 Gotta say, that made me chuckle.

But in all honesty, if you look deep enough into each weapon the Guardian has, you’ll notice that there are some serious flaws into the design. Examples:

Mace: Auto is slow, the heal scales terribly and doesn’t cleave on the third hit. The symbol, once again, is useless. Also, why does this block trigger at ranged when nearly all other blocks in the game only trigger within melee? (Warrior mace/sword and Ranger GS)

Sword: Supposed melee weapon is actually more ranged than melee and has an incredibly clunky auto-attack that royally hurts when reflects are being thrown around. Not to mention Zealot’s Defense roots you thus allowing your enemy to widen the distance.

Great Sword: Symbol of wrath is completely useless outside of PvE where the mobs stand still. The same almost applies to Whirling Wrath where you MUST stand inside your target to do full damage. Not to mention the long cd, short leap and obvious Binding Blade.

Hammer: Slow as Molasses that has very little significance. Banish? This used to be good when stun-breaks only worked at the end of being thrown. Zealot’s Embrace, again another slow, with little-to-no reward attached. The whole weapon is slow but provides nothing of significance because of it.

Scepter: Auto is a joke since it can be strafed. How is this a thing 3 years after?

Torch: Cleansing flame is useless since it provides nothing for the Guardian itself. Also, throwing Zealot’s Fire can also be strafed.

There’s an overall theme with these weapons and it’s this. They’re ALL slow and unrewarding. If you must make something obvious/slow, the benefit needs to be superior to that to which is quicker. Basic common sense. Long Bow is the only thing that fits this theme.

Sad these threads died out so quickly. I want more functionality that other classes have, more useful skills(symbols for the most part are useless), better traits that actually make a difference. So much to ask?

Would be nice to get traits similar to what Engineer’s got for their hammer and some more functionality on the kit. I’d propose a bit of an overhaul but you know how that goes….

You’re right, i’m just looking at forgiving mechanics as a whole Blackbeard. I’m tired of passive procs, i’m tired of strong dodge-roll boons and i’m tired of skills that are overall very forgiving.

Except Heavy Light isn’t strong, it’s annoying but not strong at all. I do agree with you on the fact that it needs to be heavily adjusted since it can’t be avoided but by no means is it powerful.

Sorry Sayian, disagree with you hard on this one. I’ll make it simple for everyone here.

Nerf strong passives and look at forgiving mechanics. Done. No more random boons when getting hit/cced or condi’s applied or strong boons on dodge. Get rid of all of this stuff.

As much as I hate to say it, Guardian traits are probably the closest thing to balance since there are no strong passives that decide a fight.

2 cents.

If all you do is nerf those 2, you’ll still have Tempests/Druids bunkering it up like before with Scrappers providing similar sustain with higher damage-output. Gotta look at the whole picture, not just these 2.

Kuya.6495:

Silhouette.5631:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

If you are losing to DH, you aren’t playing the right classes to counter them.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you the root of the kitten problem!

Perhaps to a solo queue hero who believes he should be able to 1vs1 every class in the game.

I need to respond to this. I main DH but in all honesty, EVERY profession should be able to take down any other class in this game if they’re good enough. Hard-counters be kitten ed.

I wanted a Spell-Sword that relied on positioning and movement instead of tanking face. I sort of still feel this is the case but at the same time, there’s a lot of issue’s. I’m happy because Guardian is still one of the only professions without strong passives that decide fights. At the same time, the active skills don’t make up for it.

Your #4 suggestion is solid. I’d suggest for the #5 to be something you plant(banner) that allows you to perform actions while still being protected(And detonates itself at the end) within that circle.

My boy Countless Well done.

It doesn’t fall just within DH but rather core Guardian as well. It’s slow, had(scepter) the worst ranged weapon in the game, still has very little access to controlling conditions to keep enemies close with the least amount of powerful passives of any profession.

You can’t make a primarily melee class have little-to-no mobility with no way to keep up with your enemy, it makes zero sense. Look over each trait-line and compare it to other professions and you’ll find that they’re terrible in comparison. Example:

-Aegis at 50% hp threshold…what is this?
-Nerf to might of the protector. Guardians could NEVER might-stack well even before this nerf.
-tons of retaliation traits when retal is by far, the worst of all boons.

This isn’t just a dh issue but a Guardian as a whole issue. I could name countless other skills/traits that are sub par or absolutely terrible in comparison to other professions.

The sucky gs does more dmg than LB on paper, not ingame. Not even close.

2nd skill is a poor version of Warrior’s Whirlwind which does the same amount of damage, acts as mobility and is an evade.

3rd skill is on too long of a cd. 15 seconds for a tiny 600 unit leap? Rocket charge, swoop and Whirlwind are far superior.

4th is not a dps boost, it’s actually a loss since you have to stand still for a second to cast it to which your enemy has more time to widen the distance.

GS is absolutely terrible. The symbol is completely useless unless it’s against Downed-bodies. There goes one of your skills. Binding blade is incredibly clunky and too easy to see. Whirling Wrath is a joke since to achieve its full damage requires you to be INSIDE your target for the full duration.

Staff isn’t a terrible weapon, that I can agree with.

Torch sucks since 1 of its skills is completely underwhelming(cleansing flame). Hell, even Zealot’s Fire can be strafed at ranged without needing to dodge.

Hammer is too slow, the protection is only good on paper, in the RL it barely ever works. The utility/CC is too easy to see as well as too easy to avoid.

Nearly all Guardian weapons are sub par. They’re either too slow, clunky, useless skills attached or not enough “oomph” for their obviousness. A big one being Scepter’s Auto still having terrible tracking for 3 years. How is this still a thing?

Can’t wrap my head around this thread. Revenants, Scrappers, Tempests and Druids(Even bunker Mesmers) are far more effective than a cool-down cannon that is DH. Bruisers are running this meta, not Zerkers. I feel like I have to keep linking this video showing people how to deal with traps so here ya go…

I’d like to offer my 2cents on the subject matter of Guardian Weaponry. I find nearly all if not all weapons to be either clunky, boring or unrewarding for how obvious some of the skills are. This is PURELY from an spvp perspective.

Hammer: Theoretically, this weapon would provide 100% protection uptime but in a real-world setting(pvp), this isn’t even close to being the case. This weapon is slow, the damage isn’t very high, the CC aspects of it are so obvious and unrewarding.

Great Sword: This almost feels like Hammer in how obvious the abilities are to damage ratio. For instance, Whirling Wrath is a poor version of say Whirlwind on Warrior which provides similar damage, acts as an evade, mobility and is far easier to pull off. The symbol is only useful against a downed-body.

Scepter: The tracking is still terrible, Smite provides very inconsistent damage. This weapon was only utilized for its immobilize.

Sword: This essentially is another ranged weapon that is very clunky on its auto, Zealot’s defense makes no sense since it allows your enemy to widen the distance even more. Also, why isn’t Flashing Blade a leap finisher?

Torch: Again, another obvious weapon to which only 1 of the 2 skills are actually useful. Cleansing Flame is under utilized due to it providing zero benefit to the Guardian himself but its obviousness is just prime to be interrupted.

Mace: The auto doesn’t cleave on the third strike, its healing is very small unless you invest a significant amount of HP(which is fine for support). Also, why does Protector’s Strike trigger at ranged when the vast majority of blocks only trigger in melee?

Shield: This weapon has been buffed several times and yet its still underutilized. I wonder why.

Having 3 different specs for symbols spreads it too thin I think. You tend to only have one focus per each skill so it helps the profession focus on other aspects. And the argument as to why would there be healing in Zeal? Look at Zealous Blade, it has a pitiful amount of healing but it’s still healing.

Edit: Even WoP’s heal is pitiful at a base of 107. While going from 0-1375 Healing Power it only goes up to 210, this is terrible scaling(not as bad as Zealous blade’s).

The trap heal for Guardian, Purification does not heal for the full amount listed. The initial heal is 2,192 and activation being 6,413. However, when utilized, the initial heal is a bit lower with the activation being a tiny bit higher.

Exedore.6320:

Arken.3725:

The only ones utilized are from Necromancer.

Necromancer only uses signets (other than Plague Signet) because the Signets of Suffering trait is so strong. Too strong IMO.

I think the effects are fair, the instant nature of Plague is not fair. A cast-time for that would make things a lot more balanced.

Minors

All of them: All of them being symbol related yet you have WoP in Honor makes this line even more unappealing. All of these need to be overhauled or slightly buffed with symbol related weapons(hammer mostly)

Majors

Wrathful Spirit: Change this to protection or something else that’s actually useful.

Zealous Scepter: This discourages you from utilizing your Justice’s passive. Not to mention the duration is too short for any real might-stacking and keeping yourself ONLY in scepter is a bad idea. Change this to apply to all weapons.

Fiery Wrath: Still surprised this got nerfed to 7%. Buffing this to 10% might be too much.

Binding jeopardy: Without consistent blinds or immob’s, this is very underwhelming. Not asking for more access but maybe increase the stacks/duration instead.

Zealous Blade: Increase the damage to 10%, SIGNIFICANTLY increase the base and scaling. This thing is pitiful.

Kindled Zeal: Weird conversion trait.

Expeditious spirit: This one should be obvious.

Shattered Aegis: Just like Binding Jeopardy, unless you have consistent access to aegis, this is underwhelming.

Symbolic Avenger: 10% is pitiful for a trait that only really works with Hammer(consistent symbol access).

The only ones utilized are from Necromancer. The active benefit from the other 25 just aren’t up to snuff. I’m not saying a 3 second KD isn’t strong just you’re running the risk of putting it on full cd without its effects actually pulling any weight vs. a signet that will ALWAYS work due to it being self-empowering.

Exedore.6320:

The signets other than Mercy and Courage are appropriately balanced. Just that so many other abilities across many professions are out of hand. Possibly reduce the cooldowns on Wrath and Bane and change Wrath to Precision instead of condi dmg, but that’s about it.

The numbers can be tweaked. Resilience is new, so it’s hard to say what’s a proper number.

How are they appropriately balanced? Ever notice the only signets that are ever utilized are the ones that are self-empowering(Dolyak for instance) or incredibly strong offensively(Plague).

Minors

Valorous Defense: Change to grant protection at 50% threshold.

Courageous Return: Rework, downed state/revival traits are useless in actual combat. That, or move this into Honor.

Might of the Protector: Remove the ICD, 1 stack of might per block

Majors

Strength of the fallen needs some love, downed traits just never see play.

Stalwart Defender: Change this add more functionality to the shield like Warrior’s shield trait does for them.

Strength in Numbers: Increase this to 200 since Toughness scales terribly.

Communal Defenses: Increase radius to 600

Altruistic healing: Maybe merge Force of Will with this?

Retributive Armor: If this was similar to Adaptive Armor you’d see this actually utilized, just sayin’

Minors

Selfless Daring: Increase both the base and scaling. This is the only dodge trait in the game that actually requires heavy investment to be useful.(Like virtue’s)

Purity of Body: Overhaul completely, nothing stacks higher than 50% from vigor so this is redundant and it encourages you to never use your Resolve Virtue.

Majors

-Merge Invigorated Bulwark with Protector’s impact

-Honorable staff: Have it be 20% boon duration regardless of what weapon you’re in.

-Pure of Heart: Change to Regen stacks instead of burst healing.

-Empowering Might: Remove the ICD, increase duration to 8 seconds.

-Writ of Persistence should be in zeal, not sure what to put in its place.

-Force of Will: uh….

Going to make the rest of the threads anytime? Just genuinely curious.

I like the majority of these Exedore except a few.

-Your signet change doesn’t really make signets all that desirable. I think the Signets themselves need to be looked at.

-the resistance and burning seems pretty weak for the major but maybe that’s just me.

Then if we’re talking thematically, the Guardian will only further be limited by what it can or cannot do.

Retaliation is not a decent boon, especially one going for high damage since your self-sustain is too low to make proper use of it.

Filler traits are, quite literally, in abundance within each Guardian line. Unfortunately, if you want to utilize conditions as a Guardian(lol), you need to go into Radiance for the tiny burning damage bonus.

Virtue’s Base: Reduce the cd’s appropriately(not 100% on this one), and boost the passive benefits as well. Virtue’s are inherently poor versions of signets. They provide VERY little benefit passively and only if you trait into that line will you actually benefit from popping its active use.

Inspired Virtue should be baseline.

Virtue of Retribution: Needs to be overhauled, retaliation is by far the most useless of all boons(in spvp).

Power of the Virtuous: Remove the damage increase and give us back our Boon Duration that was taken away.

Adepts

Unscathed Contender: Reduce to 10% but while under the effects of some other boon that can be reliably obtained.

Retaliatory Subconscious: Overhaul to give 3 seconds of protection on a 5 sec ICD.

Masters/GM’s

Merge Supreme Justice and Permeating Wrath.

Absolute Resolution: Boost the passive by a greater amount

Glacial Heart: Overhaul to maybe increase attack speed on hammer with a cd reduction.

Battle Presence: Allow Guardians to keep the passive on Resolve, spread to allies.

Theme’s don’t exist anymore so I think that argument is moot. Thematically, Zeal should be the line with the most damage output potential and it is…on paper. If anything, i’d like Radiance to be the condition line. The problem with this is you still only have burning access and…that’s it. Other forms to cover/bury would be enough.

This is why we have opinions on this matter. I disagree, the ability to stick to your opponent has always been an issue and a necessity for more focused damage. Zeal would fall in the category of more AoE.