Guild Wars 2

A single port isn’t going to do much. Seems like a lot of you keep forgetting the lack of mobility and reliable CC. What’s a single port going to do?

Morf pretty much reiterated all of the issue’s I’ve had with Guardians that haven’t been addressed. The biggest one is symbols since in spvp, anyone with half a brain will completely nullify your symbols thus making them a waste. This game is all about mobility and yet these exist.

Zeal made the most sense to me.

Not so much negativity but rather a realization. Anything else is just blind ignorance.

Excellent initiative except if you look back, you’ll notice no developer has ever responded to these nor have they taken any suggestions into consideration. So as much as I and many others would love this, it seems pretty useless.

You forgot a lot of lackluster traits. I’m on my phone so this might take a while

Zealots speed still doesn’t grant any sort of swiftness.

Shattered aegis’s dmg still isn’t high enough to justify a GM slot

Zealous blade’s healing is still probably a joke.

Renewed justice and courageous return are completely useless in combat.

All of the retaliation traits. Retaliation is still the worst boon in the game.

The new retributive armor is also incredibly weak and provides zero sustain.

Force of will is still very boring and incredibly weak when stacked against pure of voice.

Battle presence is also a joke that encourages you NOT to activate your virtue.

I am speaking strictly from an spvp point of view. I’m sure I missed a few as well.

Keksmuffin.1450:

Did everybody forget about the quickness shout already? :<

No, just it’s the same issue with litany, their counterparts are still far superior. (Rf and shelter)

Normally i’m pretty upbeat about the Guardian profession but holy crap at these changes. You know what, i’m done. Keep doing what you’re doing with the oblivious buffs to the best classes while nerfing those that NO ONE complained about.

ventusthunder.5067:

Booms.2594:

yeah i understand fiery wrath and maaaaybe amplified wrath nerf. also radiant power was 10% more d mg not crit chance, no 25% anything.though that wouldve been awesome haha.

the one I really dont get is destroying might of the protector, which maybe using shelter at the right time be actually rewarding, and was one of the very few skillful things a guardian could do. I’m really disappointed in this change hope they reverse it.

My thoughts exactly. Dumbs us down even more. Really sad. Punishing enemies for hitting into blocks always felt rewarding to me, and timing blocks well was one of the few things that required real skill on the guardian’s part.

A pretty sizable nerf to virtue range for what reason? I keep questioning what’s going on because a lot of it makes zero-to-no sense. The retaliation traits are still garbage, Might of the Protector got a massive nerf against skillfully blocking multiple attacks. It’s not like Guardians stacked might very well anyways.

Every kitten patch we get some sort of pretty nasty nerf for no logical reason. Where are the nerfs to the apex classes? This is bs.

Very surprised by a lot of the nerfs from the intended changes. Warriors, Elementalists and Engineer’s got massive buffs and yet…

I’d love a power based Runeset for speed. Good suggestion Aggrostemma.

Speaking from spvp only:

Scepter: AA misses most of the time, Smite’s dmg is inconsistent

Mace: Auto is incredibly slow, 3rd swing doesn’t cleave and the heal is a joke. Symbol is also a joke

GS: Does less damage than Hammer, Symbol is only useful against downed-bodies, Whirling Wrath’s dmg is incredibly small for such an obviously animated skill. (Whirlwind does the same damage much faster and acts as mobility/evasion.)

Sword: 3rd auto doesn’t cleave and tends to miss quite a bit, Zealot’s defense’s projectiles miss while rooting you.

I’d love to use these weapons but with the way they’re structured, I can’t justify it. They’re either too slow, not enough dmg to justify the slowness or just useless overall(Most symbols come to mind).

Yamsandjams.3267:

Arken.3725:

I would love a rewarding, high risk- high reward heal skill any day. Litany oh litany.

Well, at least half of that is true currently. One day we may get to see the other half. One can dream.

I’d say the one half that does exist is “Extremely high risk.”

-Lowest heal in the game
-Only healing skill needing traits to be even remotely appealing. (I can’t think of any other healing skill across any profession that needs to be traited)
-Given to the slowest profession that requires consistent damage…wha?
-Cd is relatively long

I would love a rewarding, high risk- high reward heal skill any day. Litany oh litany.

I’d take Healing Signet over Shelter if we had it, just to try it out.

Numbers wise, Shelter isn’t even that good. There are plenty of healing skills that have double the HPS so…

Numbers away: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pkF4qe4s_Ol-Flqb73T_eDAEEl-jTIFptEXhu2Zuzc0/edit?usp=sharing

Exedore.6320:

There’s confusion between “no counter-play” with “passive”. Instant cast has just as little counter-player as passive things like Healing Signet. So what if you have to hit a button? It’s still impossible to dodge or interrupt except for sheer luck.

That’s not to say all instant cast is bad; there’s just a point where it becomes too much. It’s the same reason people are frustrated by multiple procs.

Of course, that’s why instant skills should be looked at to their long-casting counterparts to make them stronger. If an instant/passive skill has around 80% effectiveness compared to an active/long-casting one, which would you take?

Edit: My argument stands that there’s no strong passives attached to the Guardian(except vigorous precision) that is relied upon in a dire situation.

Thief is also bottom tier health

Wait, i’m pretty sure Thieves have the same health Slayer heh.

You could make the cast-time instant, cd 15 seconds and have 50% dmg converted to health and I would STILL take shelter over it. This is how bad Litany of Wrath is.

Seems like Exedore completely missed what I mentioned about the Guardian Profession being probably the least (meaningful) passive class in the game. As I’ve stated before, outside of Vigorous Precision, what is it about the Guardian that ISN’T active? If you want stuff to die, you must play properly and not rely on some BS passive proc (IP, Chill on death to name a few). Or if you want to survive you better utilize your cd’s properly or death ensue’s. Where’s the passive healing skill? Where’s the instant-cc on low cd? Where’s the unlimited swiftness? Where’s the soft-cc?

What a joke.

It’s very balanced. If anything, Anet should have it as their base and go from there. Outside of Vigorous Precision, ever notice the Guardian has no strong passive’s? This is how it should be. No instant-CC(I take that back, Shield) abilities and obviously hard-hitting animations.

CD is still too long and requires the Guardian to do consistent damage(which is incredibly difficult as the slowest profession). Not to mention you can still be CCed and completely nullify the effect. Good to see suggestions being thrown out there but Litany would need a MASSIVE buff for me to even consider it.

A list of stuff to be tweaked:

Make weapons other than Hammer, Scepter(fix the AA) and Staff useful. All other weapons are terrrrrrible.

I despise instant skills so i’m all for adjustments, just not the ones you’ve suggested. Functionality changes would be nice.

Was it even confirmed that Permeating Wrath be changed to around YOUR target?

insanemaniac.2456:

these ideas suck

you didnt run this by any engis. you just took everything you saw in the qq threads around this forum and magnified the nerfs.

Seriously? Do you honestly believe that if he ran any of these idea’s(ridiculous or not) that any would say that Engineer’s are out of line? Get out of here with that crap.

Protectors strike is actually not instant when procced. There’s a small animation(delay) before the damage goes off.

Edit: Still sticking by my guns when it comes to any form of instant-cc. Cast-times are needed or there’s no real counterplay to it. This game is all about reading your opponent(animations) and reacting accordingly. You can’t do that with instant skills(unless you get a lucky dodge, block whatever).

So difficult to give solid input on the changes because Renewed Focus is SUCH a necessity in nearly all aspects of this game that you’d need to make these changes on par(or better) with it for anyone to even consider it(especially spvp).

This (sorta) used to be the case. Before it was fixed, there was a bug that when you casted the Absorb and quickly moved after, the shield was still around you within that area and you could still perform actions. This was literally the only reason I used Shield. Ever since that fix, I couldn’t be bothered with it.

Also, the suggestions to add an Aegis on the #4 are terrible. I still wouldn’t touch it with a 10ft pole. The nerf to protection from 5-3 seconds seemed unnecessary as well as the fix to the bubble itself(I mentioned above). Throwing shield a bone by reducing the cd did absolutely nothing to help. Functionality changes are needed.

It’s not so much the length as its nearly impossible to avoid due to it being instant. If there were a cast-time(like what anet did with Skull Crack on Warrior) then it would be fine.

What kind of argument is that? Now I know you’re trolling.

Drennon.7190:

QQ that class has something I don’t! Wahh! Get over it

That’s not the point. The point is to have to sacrifice something strong for something else. With this change, there’s none of that. Wahh, get over having zero constructive input.

I was surprised to see the change. Protection is thrown around like candy for the Elementalist profession so having to make a choice made sense instead of being given both. This is the point of having traits all along, to have to choose one or the other.

It’s not a necessity to balance something around a 1v1 for a specific profession against another. However, there are some obvious skills/traits that could be looked at, regardless of the situation it’s put in.

Drennon.7190:

Arken.3725:

Zeal/Valor/DH….mark me woooords

Because we saw how well your lack of virtue stability and virtue Condi cleanse worker out.

Saw what?

Zeal/Valor/DH….mark me woooords

A simple fact that Guardian has an advantage over Thief but I would not say it’s a hard counter. Both of equal skill, the Guardian should win.

We used to have too many symbol traits, now it’s just down to one Major. Having 2 for both Zeal and Honor would make sense depending on what type of Guardian you want to build. Maybe have the Zeal trait tick for cripple and last longer? Just a thought, not set in stone.

With the changes to honor coming up such as the removal of Elusive Power and the focus on more supportive traits, it feels like this would be a bad choice for those who want to go offensive. Before(now rather), you could take a few traits that would enhance your offensive capability in honor(such as 2h-mastery and Elusive power) but now I don’t see ANY offensive options. All 3 tiers are essentially supportive now(which is fine for a supportive line).

I still think there need to be symbol majors in Zeal to further specialize for those who wish to do so.

Xaylin.1860:

I thought they also said something about Symbolic Avenger. Maybe I just don’t remember it correctly.

That would be a terrible idea. It’s already incredibly difficult to keep competent opponents within the symbols as is. I can see it being insane for PvE where your mobs never move but not against intelligent players.

Edit: Especially when you compare it against say the Warriors Berserker’s Power which is incredibly easy to upkeep 100% of the time regardless.

Which trait was too powerful? The only one I remember them mentioning was Soaring devastation

I agree that every weapon should have some sort of symbol but i’m not sure i’m with you on Honor being the supportive symbol line. There’s only one supportive symbol the game and even that’s not wise to stand in when you’re getting hammered with AoE’s. If anything, i’d like to see either WoP be broken off for a Zeal master so that those who want to focus offensively on symbols can do so.

Xaylin.1860:

In contrast to DH the Zeal Minors are ‘self-sufficient’ because Zealous Speed procs a Symbol. It might not be too effective if it’s your only Symbol but it still prevents the Minors from being useless. ANet quite obviously still wants it to stay about Symbols no matter what and some of your suggestions would turn away from that.

If they changed anything, I’d rather see Scepter getting a Symbol. To be honest, I feel that Guardians should have at least 1 Symbol per weapon set just as Mesmers have 1 Phantasm skill per weapon set. But that probably is a totally different topic. Symbol traits aside, they should also consider switching places of Blinding Jepoardy and Zealous Scepter.

Personally, I do not mind having Writ of Persistence in Honor. Zeal should be fine if it keeps Symbolic Avenger. However, they mentioned they might change it.

What did they mention changing?

Bow lacks a bit of defense but not terribly. Deflecting shot, when utilized properly will do wonders(Pin-down, Killshot for example). The root on Trueshot seems justified due to its low CD/burstiness.

Scepter will do fine in HoT against mobs but will be bleh against players unless the tracking is fixed.

If we’re going to keep the symbol traits as they are (All minors being symbol related), then it only stands that you put the majors in with them. To me, each line specializes into something and it just so happens that Zeal is the symbol line but is lacking any real support for them(bigger, lasting longer).

Love:

Staff: Jack-of-all trades weapon. The auto does the same damage as scepter while never missing and is AoE. Support from both Empower and Line of Warding as amazing, The Orb of Light(don’t detonate!) does significant burst damage.

Hammer: Excellent burst weapon. Long cast-times are a bit meh but the damage/CC make up for it.

Love/Hate:

Torch: the #4 is neat for aoe burning but the #5 is a terrible skill overall. The damage is sub par and the cone to remove conditions from your allies is too small(not to mention it doesn’t remove it from yourself).

Hate:

Scepter: The auto is unreliable at best, easily strafe-dodged. Smite is very inconsistent with its dmg.

Great Sword: Even slower than Hammer in terms of pulling off burst damage without the significant CC. Both Whirling Wrath and Symbol of Wrath are only useful against downed-bodies due to how easily dodgeable they are. This is supposed to be a more Damage-focused weapon and yet the dmg is actually lower than Hammer.

Sword: Auto #3 misses alot and has VERY little cleave. Zealot’s Defense makes no sense for a weapon that’s supposed to stick to its target not to mention the projectiles miss most of the time.

Shield: Someone else can explain this one far better than I can

Mace: The auto is too slow and the 3rd hit doesn’t cleave. Not to mention the healing gained from the #3 auto is so insignificant you’ll never notice it. Symbol of Faith is just like Symbol of Wrath, only useful on downed bodies since it’s so easy to avoid and the benefit gained from it is a pittance.

Bash.7291:

Arken.3725:

Bash.7291:

Arken.3725:

A lot of those situations(barring Scepter IF they fix the AA) are incredibly niche I think. Something more reliable would be nice.

Oh I do totally agree, it is very niche in regards to when it can be useful, and the trait IS really meant to supliment the bow (and to possibly equal extent, the staff) But there are going to be situations were we are going to get bonuses from it, so it cant really be 100% discredited as a “ranged only” trait, even if range DOES get the most out of it. As i said, and have been trying for forever, a torment trait in radiance would have been the true fix we need.

Can I ask why Torment. I think the biggest “fix” we needed was mobility(movement trait would be nice). If anything, that would greatly assist with melee-support. Making it say a Master in whatever tree so you had to choose would be fine as well.

A couple reasons actually,

1) I have never been a supporter of guardian getting more speed. I support the idea of the class being less mobile, but having ways to keep people in battle, and have always supported more forms of CC, mostly in the form of chill, or through making the enemy pay for fleeing such as torment.

2) another condition brings on possibility of a true condition guard, and as was mentioned above, would help in regards to being kited for punishing people for moving.

3)Originally I supported it as a “on crit” trait in the radiance line, since currently, the radiance line actually has very little to do with helping condition builds, and would have fit into the current crit/condi them, and would have opened up some of the more conventional condition options.

1: I can agree with this but you’d need a lot more access to said Soft-CC to work. With the introduction of Cripple being very niche outside of bow(team fighting), it’s very difficult to pull off. I am actually the opposite, i’d love to have speed but have very little-to-no soft-cc.

2: Not sure how I feel about this, sorta pigeon-holes you into condition builds and leaves those running power a bit behind.

Black Box.9312:

Sigh… People assuming they know what I think and mean, when really they don’t at all.

I get what you’re saying dude. You have concerns and I get that completely. However, I think until we can test these changes for ourselves, we really can’t pass judgement based on some video of someone who doesn’t even main Guardian to demonstrate(no offense Grouch).

Bash.7291:

Arken.3725:

A lot of those situations(barring Scepter IF they fix the AA) are incredibly niche I think. Something more reliable would be nice.

Oh I do totally agree, it is very niche in regards to when it can be useful, and the trait IS really meant to supliment the bow (and to possibly equal extent, the staff) But there are going to be situations were we are going to get bonuses from it, so it cant really be 100% discredited as a “ranged only” trait, even if range DOES get the most out of it. As i said, and have been trying for forever, a torment trait in radiance would have been the true fix we need.

Can I ask why Torment. I think the biggest “fix” we needed was mobility(movement trait would be nice). If anything, that would greatly assist with melee-support. Making it say a Master in whatever tree so you had to choose would be fine as well.

A lot of those situations(barring Scepter IF they fix the AA) are incredibly niche I think. Something more reliable would be nice.