Wall of Reflection: Reduce cd to 30 seconds.
Hallowed Ground: Change to pulse resistance and reduce cd to 60.
Sanctuary: Increase radius to 180, reduce cd to 60 seconds.
2 cents:
1. Change the auto to be a single melee hit on the third strike instead of a projectile.
2. Flashing blade a leap finisher and allowed to be used without a target that pushes you 600 units forward.
3. Blocks all attacks(This is probably too strong)
What about….
Might-stacking on the auto(like Engineer’s)
1200 Range leap with an evade(like Engineer’s)
AoE Frontal Sweep(like Mesmer’s)
Mobile while casting RoW.
I know i’m supposed to give constructive information but..a lot of these kits(Hammer obviously) are so outdated that it’s almost comical to not ask for stuff like this.
What exactly do we have going for us? Our sustain isn’t nearly as good as the bruisers I’ve mentioned. Our mobility is just as bad as it was before, nothing changed. We don’t have stupidly strong traits that sway a fight. Please, enlighten me as to what we have.
Know what would be a welcome sight? Replacing all of the Symbols light-fields with Fire-fields. I’m partly serious.
Gonna get a lot of hate here but there are aspects of DH and Core Guardian to this day, that are outdated. If you look at all of the trait lines the Guardian has, it doesn’t have a single strong passive proc attached to it that will sway a fight. Everything you do requires input and isn’t given to you.
Guardians(DH most notably) have burst sustain as compared to long-standing sustain you see from Tempests, Scrappers and Druids. Once that shield/invul is gone, things go south very quickly. Guardians still lack passive sustain, mobility, multiple forms of CC and nearly everything else that’s obtained by bruisers at this time.
I’ll give some feedback!
1: The auto attack desperately needs either a speed increase OR a huge increase in utility/damage. (This may sound op but what about making the symbol a fire field
2. Increase the leap range of mighty-blow and maybe add an evasion on top of it. Aside from being the only class without a 25% movement trait/signet, we’re also the only one without ANY evades on ANY skills.
3. Increase the duration from 2-3 seconds since this ability is so easy to avoid.
4. Change this to an AoE frontal KB but lower the KB range.
5. Allow this to be utilized while mobile.
Even if these changes were implemented, it’s highly unlikely i’d take it in spvp but this would be a start.
I’ll throw my hat into this.
Tier 1: Scrapper, Herald
Tier 2: DH, Reaper, Tempest
Tier 3: Druid, Chrono, Daredevil
Tier 4: Berserker
Except you can dodge traps…Even the instant ones don’t activate until after a small moment of time(right after the daze).
I think his point was that “just dodge it” is a lame reasoning because you can dodge pretty much everything.
I mean really, they could put in a ability that hits for 20k that bounces across five targets with 1200 range and you could still “just dodge it.”
If dodgability is the definition of balanced then there has never in the entire history of this game been a overpowered class.
I’m just giving you an option here, there are many more since only one trap is unblockable. The rest can be mitigated very easily. It still surprises me that this is the issue at hand and now the strength that is revs and scrappers. I guess when people see flashy stuff they think it’s too much to handle.
OK i was going to post a 5,000 word essay on why strong traps need to go, but im just going to shortin it up a bit (alot really)
DH traps are fine in a 1v1, in a TEAMGAME they are broken.
i could go into a full on rant on why they are broken in a teamfight, but thats alot of reading and understanding of how teamgames work (which i know most people who pvp dont even understand that this IS a teamgame)
ill use ONE example to make it simple
DH uses Wall of swords. ok you dodge out if you need to get out of the ring of death, simple and easy to do, UNLESS you get feared.pulled, knocked into the wall. then its instant 8k damage.
does 8,000 damage for getting hit by one ability seem fair? i rest my case.
IF Anet wants to keep DH and the rest of the classes the way they are now, the only option they have to keep people pvping is.
Bring back solo queue, lock Traits before the you enter the game, and add class/trait to the match making equation!
8k ? screenshot or didn’t happen. And yes l2 dodge next time.
Clearly people should just learn to dodge broken aspects of the game. In fact just dodge everything. That’s a reasonable response.
Except you can dodge traps…Even the instant ones don’t activate until after a small moment of time(right after the daze).
Just thought i’d give some insight on how I believe things are going. I’ve played Guardian since beta and have been enjoying the burst DH puts out. I use Berserker Amulet so my sustain is less than desirable but the burst is nice to justify it.
I might be biased but I find Scrapper, Revenant and to some degree, Reaper to be stronger than DH. I think once people understand that you can avoid(even the instant-cast) traps, DH will probably become more niche.
As a Guardian(DH), I still feel very slow and am very vulnerable to sustained builds while my support has dropped significantly running DH virtue’s instead of base. If anything, I think both Rev(Herald mostly) and Scrapper need to be looked at more than anything else.
I never understood the necessity to bandwagon DH, I’ve experienced stronger specs in Rev, Scrapper and to some degree, Reaper. I guess since I’ve played Guardian since beta that I might be a bit biased but I find the first two to be far superior.
I think once people realize how easy it is to avoid traps, it’ll be dealt with handily. I think a lot, if not all hatred is misdirected.
As stated above, Scrappers are far tankier while putting out significant pressure. They feel like 2.0 versions of D/D ele’s with the sheer amount of boon uptime, mobility, might-stacking capability and decent CC.
Here’s a picture of a friend I was watching in a duel (who, by the way, only has 7 hours on Engie) with an example of that boon uptime. Mind you, every duel he finished with near 100% health due to the sustain Protection Injection/Scrapper line provides.
Actually, the wiki is wrong. Here’s a picture of both auto’s with the same power of 2375
Edit: Revenant’s is much higher and is a guaranteed projectile finisher every time whereas Long bow is only 20%.
Uh….i’m fairly certain Hammer auto on Rev is the highest….
Core Guardian is still the only profession that lacks any real “strong” passives attached. What I mean by this, there’s no protection on CC, massive healing or anything to be considered “cheese” outside of maybe Smiter’s Boon.
I’m actually ok with this but if you’re going to give a profession more engaging traits(which guardian also lacks), they need to be stronger than their easier counterparts.
I main Engineer/Scrapper, and I can tell you that 1 on 1, I can beat a Dragon Hunter. It’s about an even fight. That said, Scrapper has the advantage that it has a lot of blocks and mobility. So with a little bit of knowledge of how Dragon Hunters work, I can avoid trap bursts.
That said I have been dabbling in Dragon Hunter, and it probably is the highest damaging burst class at the moment. I can down chieftain / svanir in under 10 seconds if I really try. And to an unsuspecting squishy, if you lay traps on a point, they can pretty much instantly die just by activating your traps. In fact, I once killed 4 people simultaneously when I set up 3 traps on the orb in spirit watch, immobilized them with lb 5, and pierced them with lb 2.
I think it would probably be sufficient to nerf Dragon Hunter’s burst damage by ~5-10%. The class doesn’t really need anything changed. It can be beaten if you simply know how to play against it (watch where you walk).
From the current state of the game, I think that Thieves and Warriors could use some buffing. It doesn’t matter if I am on DH or on Scrapper, those two classes do not threaten me at all. You can ignore their contribution to a fight.
Even fight? Scrapper absolutely ruins DH. Their sustain combined with might-stacking abilities wreck DH’s. It’s not even close to an even fight unless the Scrapper is dumb enough to run in and out of Test of Faith.
Except that shouldn’t be the case. It was explained, in GREAT detail how to deal with dh’s and yet many refuse to learn. Revenants, Scrappers and to a lesser degree Tempests and Reapers are more formidable than DH’s.
Hey guys, DH player and maker of that infamous “How to fight DH’s” video. I can tell you right now, my main weaknesses are most definitely Revenants, Scrappers and to a lesser degree, Tempest and Reaper.
By no means am I denying traps can do considerable amount of damage to those not paying attention. I get it, traps can blow(some) people up.
If we’re talking about damage output in comparison to defense, Revenant’s are far superior. It amazes me to see those complain about Long Bow when you have a ranged weapon(Hammer) that does more damage, has an evade attached and has a superior version to Trueshot attached.
It’s sorta of weird to be targeted for so much hatred when the obviousness of say Revs and Scrappers strengths are far more apparent.
It’s rather interesting because even though we all understand how to avoid traps(daze notification), there maybe people unable to react fast enough. Not to be rude to those players but that’s how this game works, understanding what’s in front of you and acting accordingly.
If we were to talk about ranged pressure, i’d like to point out Revenant’s Hammer is far superior in terms of both damage output and defensive mechanics. It’s very surprising to see players harp on a weapon that has no defense attached to it(baseline).
Edit: Not to mention, most DH builds have very little-to-no condition clears. Wings of Resolve has to be the most obviously animated skill in the game with a long wind-up before landing, very easy to disrupt.
(edited by Arken.3725)
watch this. you’ll feel a bit silly when you realise how easy the traps are to avoid.
Im on a unoffical oceanic server where most people play in the oceanic 200+ ms…. the timing on the dodge is impossible.
That’s a legitimate excuse, those with decent latency shouldn’t be up in arms as much. At the end of the day, if your internet/latency is solid, it really is an issue of reaction timing.
I wouldn’t mind speed but instead, i’d like to be able to maintain myself in combat instead of disengaging. While Guardians are by no means the most sustainable(which they sorta should be due to the lack of disengages), it might put us over the edge of being OP.
watch this. you’ll feel a bit silly when you realise how easy the traps are to avoid.
Not this stupid video again…
You need to get away from them. They use PBAoE, so stay out of it as best you can. Teleport, dodge roll, use skills to create distance. Cross your fingers and hope no one CC’s you while you try to escape!
Thank you for pointing out the effort put in that video is stupid, much appreciated. It goes over EXACTLY how to avoid them if you fight one on point and it’s undeniable. Bait out the traps, wait for the traps to disengage(while LoSing) and then go in.
I’d like to keep it at 5 seconds as it is. The duration is 7 if you trait into it.
Edit: The long CD pretty much justifies the duration.
Couldn’t find another thread to post this but Symbol of energy doesn’t proc 5 pulses of vigor. Only 4 from what I can see. Bug?
I disagree with the OP as well, there are some skills/traits that are obviously too strong and they’ve done a good job bringing them down a bit. It doesn’t take months to figure out what’s incredibly op and what isn’t. My hats off to them.
Edit: Some skills/traits still need tinkering but with the pace we’re going, it’s very nice.
Normally I don’t promote my own video’s but I highly recommend watching this. It goes over exactly how to fight DH’s traps and long bow pretty handily.
I take it over shelter already. It’s an amazing heal. People really should give it more credit.
Very good video, thanks for taking the time of making it, hope it helps people who try to face trapper DH as a classic Guardian understand how to counter them properly
You’re very welcome. I also added a quick overview of underneath the video that also contains info I missed that’s also very important to fighting a DH.
Again, the nerf wasn’t bad. It was very reasonable to be honest. Calm down guys.
i’m actually ok with this nerf. 2 seconds less on Test of Faith seems fair for its low CD. We can work with this.
Another thing I forgot to mention, the tether on f1 is the exact same as the tether from GS5 so if you dodge just as they’re about to pull you, you won’t get pulled in the full distance. It’s another way to avoid burst.
This video is to articulate how to deal with the DH’s burst. I’m not going to give an opinion of whether it’s op or not, i’ll leave it up to you guys.
I’ll be putting out a video tomorrow detailing the strengths and weaknesses of the dh as a whole. I think it’ll be very eye opening.
Just gonna post what I had in another thread.
Here’s my synopsis of the DH thus far.
Traps: From a dps perspective, this is only useful with Trapper runes. Without these, an offensive Guardian using traps won’t be optimal. Bunker is another story.
Long Bow: Solid dmg and control but no real defensive capabilities when someone gets in your face unlike other ranged weapons(Rifle kb, LB on ranger with stealth and kb.)
Traits:
Adepts:
-Piercing light helps a ton when running a near-full trap build but again, without trapper runes, it becomes a chore/dangerous.
Soaring Devastation: solid damage but goes against the theme that is dragonhunter with a bow. I’m supposed to want to stay at ranged, not move closer.
Dulled Senses: Subpar compared to the top two. Without constant kb’s, you’ll never see these conditions applied consistently enough
Masters:
Hunter’s Determination: Excellent for bunker Guardians
Zealot’s Aggression: Not bad but it discourages you from popping your active, this needs to be adjusted.
Bulwark: Shield of Courage is on an unnecessarily long cd for being primarily selfish. Baseline should be reduced and this maybe reduce it further.
Grand masters:
Hunter’s Fortification: This one feels very weak. VERY difficult to keep the 10% mitigation up since everything sneezes conditions and in comparison to say Adaptive armor which is always up and is always rewarding, this feels very weak in comparison.
Heavy Light: Just like Hunter’s Fort, feels very weak and heavily rng-based. This should also be overhauled.
Big Game Hunter: Just like the other two, it feels very weak and if you’re running
Traits overall feel relatively weak, especially the gm’s.
I like Bezagrons spreadsheet however, those with low-tier health pools are really limited if they want to max out a specific stat without a decent amount of Vit.
Chronomancer: Decent sustain, excellent burst but is still susceptible to burst itself.
Scrapper: I know this is going to get some hate but they’re literally D/D ele 2.0. Permanent swiftness, retal, fury and near 25 stacks of might with almost permanent protection up time. This is probably the top-tier elite spec.
Daredevil: Crazy amount of evades and significant damage but like Chrono, still susceptible to burst.
Reaper: Excellent sustain and damage, not nearly as sustainable as scrappers but relatively annoying none-the-less.
Temptest: Honestly, haven’t fought many of these to comment.
Berserker: Same as Temptest, haven’t fought many to form an opinion.
Druid: Insane amount of sustain, pets are way too strong.
Herald: Awesome sustain and a decent amount of mitigation through not only protection and a plethora of other boons but invulnerabilities as well.
Dragon Hunter: Excellent ranged damaged, traps are very niche if you can see it coming to avoid or pop an invul/stability to negate the effects.
The top 3 i’d say are Scrapper, Chrono and Druid.
Here’s my synopsis of the DH thus far.
Traps: From a dps perspective, this is only useful with Trapper runes. Without these, an offensive Guardian using traps won’t be optimal. Bunker is another story.
Long Bow: Solid dmg and control but no real defensive capabilities when someone gets in your face unlike other ranged weapons(Rifle kb, LB on ranger with stealth and kb.)
Traits:
Adepts:
-Piercing light helps a ton when running a near-full trap build but again, without trapper runes, it becomes a chore/dangerous.
Soaring Devastation: solid damage but goes against the theme that is dragonhunter with a bow. I’m supposed to want to stay at ranged, not move closer.
Dulled Senses: Subpar compared to the top two. Without constant kb’s, you’ll never see these conditions applied consistently enough
Masters:
Hunter’s Determination: Excellent for bunker Guardians
Zealot’s Aggression: Not bad but it discourages you from popping your active, this needs to be adjusted.
Bulwark: Shield of Courage is on an unnecessarily long cd for being primarily selfish. Baseline should be reduced and this maybe reduce it further.
Grand masters:
Hunter’s Fortification: This one feels very weak. VERY difficult to keep the 10% mitigation up since everything sneezes conditions and in comparison to say Adaptive armor which is always up and is always rewarding, this feels very weak in comparison.
Heavy Light: Just like Hunter’s Fort, feels very weak and heavily rng-based. This should also be overhauled.
Big Game Hunter: Just like the other two, it feels very weak and if you’re running Zealot’s aggression, you’ll never utilize this. The damage modifier is small for a gm.
Overall: Traps are good for bunkers, very situational for dps. Long bow feels solid for it’s dmg and cc but has no defensive capabilities like some other ranged counterparts. Traits overall feel relatively weak, especially the gm’s.
No, this blocks all attacks. Just tested on the Chieftain in HOTM.
-Power of the Virtuous is in a bit of an odd place since Guardian’s don’t really have multiple long-lasting boons (especially meditation) so this feels out of place.
-Virtue of retribution is also a bit weak in the sense retal only works on high power builds that can sustain incredibly well. Again, not suited very well for anything but bunker and even then, your power is average at best.
-I can agree with your suggestion for Permeating Wrath.
-A lot of traits should be either merged/changed. Again, to gain dependency from Meditations, you’d need another form of decent sustain and upping the base/scaling on resolution would be a good step.
-Overall, the passive’s(mostly courage) should be changed since a single block every 40 seconds is really unnoticeable at best.
If you want Guardians to be independent of Medi’s for sustain, you need change how our Virtue’s function. A very low hp/s on resolve is regeneration and a single block every 40 seconds is almost unnoticeable.
Edit: Plenty of other changes would be well received I think by many.
-Speeding up Hammer’s auto
-Maybe changing how symbols work since they seem to be too static in such a dynamic game.
-Speeding up Scepter auto so it can’t be strafed/turning smite into a symbol.
-Changing sword auto from a projectile to an actual melee hit.
-Changing Mace auto #3 to cleave and maybe having Protector’s strike act like other blocks that ONLY trigger within melee range.
-Allowing you to move while casting Empower.
-Changing Cleansing Flame to remove a few conditions on the Guardian itself.
Again, these are just a few with so many I could name that I feel to be completely outdated/subpar including more skills, traits and utilities.
Edit again: Also, losing the boon duration from the Virtue’s line was pretty rough, this should be brought back.
(edited by Arken.3725)
Some updates to Virtue’s would also make sense. Not sure if anyone’s noticed but unless you spec into Virtue’s, the class skill is pretty bad(both active/passive’s).
Baseline
Passives
Justice: In addition to burning, why not grant the Guardian Fury.
Resolve: Increase the base healing/scaling(this would help being so dependent on Monk’s Focus/Medi’s)
Courage: Grant yourself protection for an X. amount of time when struck. (ICD of course).
Actives
Justice: AoE Swiftness and Fury for a small duration. (4-5 seconds)
Resolve: AoE Regen and burst healing. (work on the base/scaling)
Courage: Longer duration of AoE protection and a shorter duration of Resistance.
This could make virtue’s baseline too strong but it’s just a thought.
This is a good point, and great ideas! Many other classes get decent usage out of their class mechanic without having to trait into it like we usually do. For guardians, it seems like we’re shooting ourselves in the foot by not taking the Virtues trait line. Also, we have some pretty high cool-downs on our virtues if they’re not traited (the fact that they’re shared to party members doesn’t justify such long cool downs in my opinion). 50 seconds for a 1.6k base aoe heal, 75 seconds for a single aegis application…
A little bit of change, and rolling certain effects (like improved passive on VoR) into base-line would encourage some build diversity. Base cooldowns should be slightly lower. Still higher than DH cool downs, because these are instant, but still lower than what they are now, such as 25 seconds, 45 seconds, 65 seconds.
This is part of the issue of why Guardian’s (dps mostly) are forced into both Valor/Virtue’s. You literally only have 1 line that you can be flexible with which shouldn’t be,
Pretty solid build. I’d probably still go with staff as your off-hand since it provides so much support/peels. This could definitely work.
Edit: You could potentially even take Receive the Light! if you’re feeling risky.
Some updates to Virtue’s would also make sense. Not sure if anyone’s noticed but unless you spec into Virtue’s, the class skill is pretty bad(both active/passive’s).
Baseline
Passives
Justice: In addition to burning, why not grant the Guardian Fury.
Resolve: Increase the base healing/scaling(this would help being so dependent on Monk’s Focus/Medi’s)
Courage: Grant yourself protection for an X. amount of time when struck. (ICD of course).
Actives
Justice: AoE Swiftness and Fury for a small duration. (4-5 seconds)
Resolve: AoE Regen and burst healing. (work on the base/scaling)
Courage: Longer duration of AoE protection and a shorter duration of Resistance.
This could make virtue’s baseline too strong but it’s just a thought.
I think they’re solid suggestions. However, the idea of mantras on Guardian’s just doesn’t fly. Unlike Mesmers, Guardian’s have little-to-no disengage to keep those mantras charged. Good effort though.
GS 2 needs a change more than anything. Requiring you to literally be inside of your target for full damage is not feasible in pvp. Not to mention Whirlwind(warrior) does the same amount that acts as an evasion, mobility and is nearly impossible to avoid due to how fast it is.
Justice: Passive is good but the Active is abysmal(especially as a condition spec). You’re better off unbinding it so you don’t fat-finger the ability.
Resolve: Passive healing is also abysmal with the active ONLY being good if traited. If not, you’re also better just unbinding it.
Courage: Passive is below abysmal. Self-Aegis every 40 seconds, I don’t know about you guys but I put Aegis in the category of “useless” along with Retaliation unless you can constantly stack it(which you cannot). Active is absolutely terrible, group-wide aegis every 75 seconds? This one probably needs the most changing of all.
MORRRRRF. I’ll just re post my opinion in case you didn’t see it.
1. Awesome new addition to the Spear of Justice
2. Still not a huge fan of Procession of Blades. A mere % increase in damage isn’t going to help when it spins slowly and is easy to avoid.
3. Fragments of Faith: Could be neat, would need to test but this trait originally was utilized for its burst damage which has now been taken away. If the CD remains at 45 seconds, this will see little use.
4. Test of Faith: If this activated when placed down and not when activated, I could definitely see people use it.
5. Light’s Judgement: Again, if this boon was given when placed instead of activated then I could see it MAYBE being utilized.
6. Purification: Needs a cd reduction and same stipulations changed for Test of faith and Light’s Judgement.
7. Dragon’s Maw: Still too Situational. Only affects one target and you give up WAY too much sustain from not taking RF.
8. Pure of Sight: Nice change but still a bit boring.
Other traits still need love and most traps are still underwhelming.
Hi all,
Here’s a list of new stuff we’ve got going as we draw closer to launch. Traps are gaining a functionality and are branching out just a tad bit, granting boons to the guardian when the trap is triggered.
We’ve also been evaluating a secondary ability for Spear of Justice, which will pull all tethered enemies toward you, should you desire. In testing with the interaction of Radiance’s Justice refresh mechanic, we felt like this would blow out in quite a few scenarios. Thus, the cooldown of this secondary is separate from Justice itself, allowing for adjustments more freely. Renewed Focus does recharge this ability.
- New skill: Hunter’s Verdict
- Hunter’s Verdict: Pull all tethered enemies to you, breaking the tether. This ability’s cooldown (40s) is separate to that of Justice.
- Procession of Blades: Increased damage per attack by roughly 20%. This trap now grants Fury for 8 seconds when triggered.
- Fragments of Faith: Fixed this trap striking multiple times. Base damage has been reduced by 40% and is no longer unblockable. This ability is now instant and breaks stuns, as well as granting 3 stacks of stability for 5 seconds when triggered. note: The design of this trap is moving back toward its defensive nature and has much more functionality than before, thus the reduction in overall damage.
- Test of Faith: This ability is now instant and grants protection for 6 seconds when triggered. Additionally, it now strikes enemies for 66% of its full damage when it triggers.
- Light’s Judgment: This trap now grants Swiftness for 10 seconds when triggered. Reduced cooldown from 45 seconds to 30.
- Purification: This trap now grants regeneration for 10 seconds when triggered.
- Dragon’s Maw: This trap now grants 10 stacks of might for 8 seconds when triggered.
- Pure of Sight: This trait now grants bonus damage of 7% from 0-600 range, 13% beyond 600 range.
Once again, thanks for the constructive feedback through the beta weekends.
Cheers,
-Karl
1. Awesome new addition to the Spear of Justice
2. Still not a huge fan of Procession of Blades. A mere % increase in damage isn’t going to help when it spins slowly and is easy to avoid.
3. Fragments of Faith: Could be neat, would need to test but this trait originally was utilized for its burst damage which has now been taken away. If the CD remains at 45 seconds, this will see little use.
4. Test of Faith: If this activated when placed down and not when activated, I could definitely see people use it.
5. Light’s Judgement: Again, if this boon was given when placed instead of activated then I could see it MAYBE being utilized.
6. Purification: Needs a cd reduction and same stipulations changed for Test of faith and Light’s Judgement.
7. Dragon’s Maw: Still too Situational. Only affects one target and you give up WAY too much sustain from not taking RF.
8. Pure of Sight: Nice change but still a bit boring.
Other traits still need love and most traps are still underwhelming.
