Guild Wars 2

I didn’t see the other ways to apply vulnerability, excuse my ignorance. I’d just rather we continue to support the natural ways the guardian plays with blinds and burning. Also, when looking at vulnerability, the symbol requires you to stand in it for four seconds which isn’t going to happen, you’ll maybe get one stack off. Also, while the weapon master traits are on par with some others, I don’t think it makes the trait anymore valuable.

The trait Pure of heart doesn’t seem all that useful since it’s wasting the first aegis, just my opinion, maybe give it regeneration instead of a single heal to make it worthwhile?

I agree unscathed isn’t terrible just I think since 90% of the time you’re not under the boon Aegis, why not choose something more useful that works often?

I also find Glacial heart to be pretty good just the randomness of the proc turns me off to it. I sometimes find myself having it go off at the worst possible time or the best. I’d rather be able to choose when or have a better idea.

Sorry, I meant vulnerability. I don’t want there to be huge changes to make these too powerful. I just want to put balance within the skills that we use. Again, we don’t utilize vulnerability so it should be replaced with burning or blind. I forgot to add some scepter tweaks but that’s already been beaten to death.

Just to add more, if you look at it the CC provided by the Guardian doesn’t stun. There’s Knockbacks and pulls with a few KD’s, all of which can allow skill usage since you’re not actively stunned.

I would really like to have some input by everyone and even mods to give some of their insight.

Ok, since the old thread was locked for drifting off, I thought i’d make a new one for some listed changes.

I’m going to try and save this thread by putting what I believe to be some helpful changes. I’ll be more than happy to change them if they seem too op or underpowered. Here we go,
-Completely remove invulnerability from traits and replace it with burning or blind, as it stand we can’t stack invulnerability for it to make a difference.

-Also, remove all traits that in affect when you’re downed, no one uses them and they seem to be just put in there to fill space, same with falling damage.

-Rework the weapon master traits to give something else besides a 5% increase to damage, I don’t think it’s significant enough to warrant its use. Maybe add a certain amount to a specific stat within the tree.

-Zealous blade needs to scale with healing power better, at base it heals for 25 a hit while at over 1200 HP, it heals for 26.

-Strength in numbers doesn’t provide enough of a boost to once again, warrant its use. 30 toughness just doesn’t seem like much. Maybe put it closer to 100 or maybe 70?

-Remove Internal cds and put in combination with another skill. Example: Glacial heart is applied as a symbol when laying down Ring of warding. But instead of giving it such a large chance to apply chilling, maybe lower it to 10%?

-Focused mind doesn’t seem like much of a change since two of the meditations are already instant and are stun breakers. Maybe change to give more burning?

-More descriptive traits. As it stands there are a few traits that give vague descriptions about how they work.(Elusive power for one, Power of the Virtuous as another)

-Combine some of the symbol traits into one.

- I think pure of heart is bugged, how do you get healed when you’re already at full health when the aegis is removed?

-Remove Unscathed Contender, you’re almost never under the boon Aegis even in a small battle for this to make it useful. Not sure of a change here.

-Indomitable Courage needs to be tweaked a little. When used it gives stability and it procs every 30 seconds instead of 40. A little contradictory on both sides when you use it the other side becomes negligible.

-Shielded Mind I believe should be tweaked as well since Indomitable Courage already gives you the stability to withstand CC, why have another?

-Elites: Renewed focus I think should allow for movement and skill usage and should remove all conditions when applied. As it stands, you’re not really invulnerable when using the skill.

Forgot to add on something, I think Inner fire should be tweaked to not proc on fire but on conditions in general and change it from fury to might or something less significant. I rarely find myself set on fire so I think a slight change would help.

I’m going to try and save this thread by putting what I believe to be some helpful changes. I’ll be more than happy to change them if they seem too op or underpowered. Here we go,

-Completely remove invulnerability from traits and replace it with burning or blind, as it stand we can’t stack invulnerability for it to make a difference.

-Also, remove all traits that in affect when you’re downed, no one uses them and they seem to be just put in there to fill space, same with falling damage.

-Rework the weapon master traits to give something else besides a 5% increase to damage, I don’t think it’s significant enough to warrant its use. Maybe add a certain amount to a specific stat within the tree.

-Zealous blade needs to scale with healing power better, at base it heals for 25 a hit while at over 1200 HP, it heals for 26.

-Strength in numbers doesn’t provide enough of a boost to once again, warrant its use. 30 toughness just doesn’t seem like much. Maybe put it closer to 100 or maybe 70?

-Remove Internal cds and put in combination with another skill. Example: Glacial heart is applied as a symbol when laying down Ring of warding. But instead of giving it such a large chance to apply chilling, maybe lower it to 10%?

-Focused mind doesn’t seem like much of a change since two of the meditations are already instant and are stun breakers. Maybe change to give more burning?

-More descriptive traits. As it stands there are a few traits that give vague descriptions about how they work.(Elusive power for one, Power of the Virtuous as another)

-Combine some of the symbol traits into one.

- I think pure of heart is bugged, how do you get healed when you’re already at full health when the aegis is removed?

-Remove Unscathed Contender, you’re almost never under the boon Aegis even in a small battle for this to make it useful. Not sure of a change here.

-Indomitable Courage needs to be tweaked a little. When used it gives stability and it procs every 30 seconds instead of 40. A little contradictory on both sides when you use it the other side becomes negligible.

-Shielded Mind I believe should be tweaked as well since Indomitable Courage already gives you the stability to withstand CC, why have another?

-Elites: Renewed focus I think should allow for movement and skill usage and should remove all conditions when applied. As it stands, you’re not really invulnerable when using the skill.

Just be aware that every update will have a nerf to this profession. Soon we’ll all be Warriors instead.

It’s funny how we can’t have a civilized discussion without useless posting. While a lot of what he’s proposing is too much, why can’t we discuss this?

Edit: And I realize he’s trolling….

Right but the use of confusion is much more effective since it stacks with intensity and hurts a lot more, leaving you useless for the time being(which can last a while).

I understand the need for a nerf of this trait, 10 seconds is too long. But 3 seconds isn’t enough to warrant the choice of utilizing this trait. It’s been stated before, bunkers are meant to repel and hold the line as long as possible. Maybe change it to give protection instead since Guardians are supposed to be defensive oriented.

I never said having it up 100% of the time was my objective. All I was saying is lowering it by such a large amount seems unnecessary. And this is especially true since they nerfed the retaliation duration buff from 50% to 25% so now you go from 3 to 3.75 seconds. It’s such a waste of a trait that it’s laughable.

It’s still a large nerf. We’re not even talking about a 50% reduction or less.

Timewarp can easily change the tide of a fight with 10 seconds of quickness. Battle standard which will rez anyone who’s downed will also turn the tide. That’s just to name two.

Edit: and don’t forget, standard takes no cast time while the heal takes 5 seconds and does nothing if you’re downed.

What do you guys think some of us have been saying? Lower the duration by a little bit not by 70% making it an incredibly useless trait.

All i’m saying is the nerfs from every patch make it seem like the Profession wasn’t designed as intended. It’s almost impossible to use the tomes without stability, retaliation is what was helping us with the low health tier. Before any of you say, “just use stability before your elite,” tell me what other elite requires the use of another skill to use? This is getting out of hand.

I agree, the duration was pretty long by why nerf it so hard? Why not do it bit by bit and see how it works? Reducing it by 70% makes it almost useless when compared to Pure of heart.

I didn’t say keep it at 10 seconds. All i’m saying is the reduction is a bit extreme.

Much needed? Guardians have almost no condition damage as it is(burning….no) so now our retaliation is screwed. Line of warding makes sense so i’m ok with that but reducing the duration on ret by 70% is unbelievable. If anything, give it 5 or 6 seconds.

Retaliation is worth it except against mesmers. Blurred frenzy just loves it. =)

Schwahrheit.4203:

I wouldn’t disagree with this one.

I’m all for debates/discussions on what is and what isn’t overpowered. I just pointed out facts, that’s all.

I can’t believe you all are ignoring the details I pointed out to exploit the Guardian. It feels like i’m talking to a wall. Here, let me make it easier for you all with bullet points!

. No ranged
.No cripples or stuns(Knock back/Knock down are not stuns so don’t even bother)
.Low health
.Sub-par elites(good luck trying to use the tomes) and for those of you who say, “just combine stability with it.” Tell me any other elite in the game that requires you to use another skill just so you can utilize your elite.
.Decent damage and great condition removal and shouts are nice
.No escape mechanisms(can’t run out of combat once committed)
.Most of our heavy hitter skills have noticeable telegraphs

I mean need I go on? Get your heads on straight before making accusations. I’m not saying the Guardian isn’t strong, but it’s far from OP especially with the recent nerfs.

As a Guardian, I can agree that there are some areas that we’re very strong. However, there’s plenty where we can be exploited. Let me explain.

We have very good condition removal, there’s no disputing that. I do see that even though we can dispel many, the long cd’s make it tough to keep them off of us initially. If we spec into damage, our damage is pretty good but at the cost of not only vitality(which is low already) but toughness. There’s quite a few weaknesses to this class such as the lack of stuns, cripples and quick CC. And what I mean by “quick” cc is that a lot of our crowd control abilities have some pretty noticeable telegraphs.( binding blade and banish for example) We do have shield of judgement which can be excellent to help the team with some breathing room but it’s negated by stability. So while we have quite a few gap closers, we have no way of actually keeping you within range after that. And since our burst damage isn’t the highest, it’s very difficult to keep the pressure on when you’re crippled/chilled and your opponent/s continue to walk freely around you. There’s a few other weaknesses but it’s just my opinion.

Edit: Also to ad don to my previous statement about shield of judgement, it seems counter intuitive to have a push-back for a class that has a tough time keeping targets close.

True but two of the mediations are instant and break stun anyway, the trait is still lacking a little.

Defensive abilities from the Guardian do not surpass any class. We have two bubbles which are nullified with stability. What else do we have? Shouts are good, i’ll give you that. But honestly, there’s not much else left. A mesmer has better defensive skills with a spammable invulnerability(blurred frenzy). The only invul guardians have is on a 90 second cool down where you can’t even move and does nothing against conditions.

Can someone explain to me how these classes do their roles so much better than others? I play a Guardian mainly and while the class is decent, they’re far from the most durable or even resilient class. We have 2 bubbles, one of which is on a 120sec cd and both can be completely ignored if you have stability. Our health is of the lowest tier, We can’t spec into condition damage very well, we have no cripples of any kind or stuns(unless you count the daze from tome of courage), Our ranged is of the worst in the game, and until recently, our elites are now sub par. Don’t get me wrong, we have good support through shouts. Symbols don’t count since no one ever stays in them long enough to reap the benefits. And to top this all off, a lot of our attacks have such noticeable telegraphs(you can strafe left/right and you can still move away from zealots embrace without having to use endurance)

So please, someone tell me how this class is so awesome when all of which I’ve listed are serious flaws.

Kidel.2057:

Arken.3725:

I don’t mind nerfs/adjustments to any class if warranted. I just think that those complaining about this profession don’t see the easy counters.(stability mainly and kiting)

Every class can kite and guardian is not the only class with stability (that is also an aoe buff, so in party istances guardian is still a weak buffer compared to other classes that receive stability)

I meant you can counter the guardian with stability and kiting. We have terrible if nonexistent kiting abilities.

I don’t mind nerfs/adjustments to any class if warranted. I just think that those complaining about this profession don’t see the easy counters.(stability mainly and kiting)

Feels like every time this is brought up I have to reiterate the whole thing. luckily, the post above me helps.

1. terrible ranged options
2. mitigation is sub par (aegis once every 40 seconds) also, stability negates all of our bubbles. we only have two and one of them is on a 120sec CD.
3. no cripples
4. no stuns
5. low health
6. difficult to spec into condition damage
7. a lot of our attacks have very slow and easy to spot telegraphs. ( hammer swings, binding blade, ring of warding sect.)
8. elites are now difficult to use with the recent patch.
Am I missing anything?

Two abilities, one on an 80 sec cd, the other on a 30. That’s Plenty!!!

Funny how there’s still a mention about the Guardian full heal even though it’s impossible to get off now. Love it.

Right but then your Aegis is on a 40sec or 90sec cd if you popped it because you still ate that small damage. It just seems like a waste.

Right, but I just think that since this game is so fast-paced and it’s not like you’re only doing slow hits every so often that it would make more sense. I think your own toughness would make more sense.

I think the Great Sword is severely lacking within the Zeal tree. 5% increase in damage? That’s so minute it’s not even funny. Also, Zealous blade heals you for 25 per hit, even with a tone of enemies nearby, it’s nothing. I also find that symbols are still not worth speccing. They’re so small and last a few seconds that it’s not noticeable. Obviously if you’re hitting #5 and then #3 on the GS, then it works really well. Other than that, not worth it in my opinion.

I do agree that it would take away a lot of planning for the Guardian in terms of blocking that one attack that could break you. In the heat of battle, it’s a little more difficult to differentiate the time and need when so many things are going off at once. I’m not proposing to give it a ton of mitigation but maybe be based on a certain stat?

I really like the valor tree, not sure why there’s so much hate for it.

Or what about being blinded for a few seconds instead of just one hit? Maybe 2 seconds? Again, excuse me if i’m complaining but a duration would be a little more sufficient.

I’d leave #2 alone, they already buffed it and most of us are happy now.

I don’t use Zeal anymore unless i’m using my 1h build. I always max out Valor for the critical damage and some decent traits.(meditation and precision)

But why is it too strong? I’d like to hear your thoughts. Or rather, why would it be?

Ynna.8769:

Are you really complaining about the Guardian’s survivability?
On Aegis: The passive effect isn’t all that powerful (although you can get lucky with it), but when you can access two at-will Aegises it becomes a lot better. Being able to completely ignore a big hit, without even stopping your damage/movement/support… is really good.

I wasn’t complaining. Read the posts above bro. It’s just one hit, the game consists mostly of multiple hitting skills.

Also, one of the traits I’ve noticed in the honor tree, “Elusive Power” doesn’t really seem to fit within that line. Your crits give you vigor so your endurance won’t be low if you’re in a critical build. Also, anyone know the damage boost and how low your endurance must be for this trait?

Anyone else have input?

Shields were just given a nice buff when they merged traits. Very useful off-hand.

Just switch the symbol to the ring of warding and make the #1 a little faster. Problem solved.

EasymodeX.4062:

Humor is a lost art.

But I think it would work even better if you added an AOE Immobilize and Daze on the enemy team to protect the Guardian on top.

Sorry, a little on edge haha. Normally that would be fine but it almost never works that way. I still think the Moa is a decent elite.

So I have to waste a very long CD(hallowed ground) utility for a “Chance” at getting the full heal off? Real nice man.

Even in pve, you can still be fighting quite a few mobs. Having the ability to block a little more when your dodge meter is down would be tremendous.

Even with quickness, it’s a 2.5sec cast time. I think you could still get interrupted pretty easily. But it would help!

TedLevine.4028:

I am going to be honest, Aegis is pretty crappy in WvW, 1 blocked hit out of 50 means absolutely nothing. See, in WvW, it’s never a 1 vs 1, it’s 1 vs 50 if you get caught even a little outside your lines. “So don’t get caught outside your lines”, true, but Aegis is worthless if you do. My suggestion would be to treat it like “Shelter”, turn it into a 1 second Block, it would actually be somewhat usefull in WvW, and it would still have a long cooldown, and it would block more than 1 hit. Don’t say it would make you OP in PVE, they have said from day one, abilities will be able to be two sided, PVE and PVP, and each ability will be adjusted according to each individual side.

It makes more sense that way. Blocking one attack isn’t much in this game, regardless of what area of play you’re in. I think either making it a duration boon or a specific amount blocked would be more fitting.

I’m surprised only because, as a Guardian, we have access to zero cripples so to keep someone within or away from us(if ranged) becomes very difficult and is taking away from our survivability.

That tome of fullhealyourwholegroup is very difficult if not impossible to get off now. So that significant has gone down the drain quite a bit.