Guild Wars 2

Sustained damage is tied in with mobility. You can have all the sustained damage in the world but if you can’t keep up with your target, it doesn’t matter. Better boon upkeep should be looked at.(similar to elementalists) If Guardians are not to receive a ranged weapon, then melee needs a buff to compensate.

Never take condition damage as a Guardian, total waste.

Guardians healing is tied to the amount of players around us, we’re not elementalists that receive high healing regardless if he/she is solo or in a group. So if you’re by yourself, that massive healing…heh. The only weapon(s) that will provide such healing is the staff and Hammer. If this is PvP, the hammer doesn’t do anything since your symbols will never hit, and having to stand still to use empower leaves you wide open for a focused attack.(which empower will not heal through)

I’ve fought a few mesmers and as a bunker, I won’t be able to do much. As a dps, if the player is good, i’ll get destroyed. Guardians right now aren’t very good duelists. We stay in one spot, hold a point or a few enemies until help arrives. That’s what we excel at. The only way you’ll be able to have a solid win against someone is if they stay in your symbols. Scepter misses too much, as does the swords abilities.(i’m looking at your zealots defense) And unfortunately, since our wards can easily be run through, that doesn’t give much room to utilize said symbols.

While #2 is fairly accurate, it’s quite boring. All you really have to do is spam the #1 on your hammer, sit back and relax as you never die.(dodge occasionally if you’re doing fotm)

Hardly? SyS was our best shout by far, now it’s not even worth looking at.(spvp) Tomes were strong yes but now good luck actually utilizing them when everyone sees you holding a book. I’ve been a Guardian from day 1 as well, over 1k hours so it’s no surprise. We can also add vengeful spirit got a nice nerf along with selfless daring.

This class is the best for pve because the mobs are too stupid to get out of the symbols. Implementing this anywhere else and you’re out of luck.

Edit: This pretty much covers consecrations as well. Again, the only profession pretty much required to stand still for any benefit.

I really believe Anet should consider revamping this profession a bit. Make it more mobile along with the others, Higher boon upkeep, cripples, stuns. All skills that other professions have access to that Guardians don’t.

We do have solid auto attacks but that’s not the issue I think. It all comes down to the ability to hit your target which is where this class is lacking. Nerfing these even more would make them near-useless.

You’re not going to be killing much against a target that stays out of your symbols anyway. 8(

foofad.5162:

Arken.3725:

Just fought a few professions today in a duel and found some interesting facts. Rangers Troll Unugent, which is on a 25 second cool down, heals for 10-12k.. This to me is insane. Symbol of resolve is on a 40sec cd healing for 8.5k. Does anyone here see a problem with this? Guardians are still the most immobile profession, requiring one to stand still for paltry benefits while others have free mobility along with boons. I still can’t wrap my head around this. There are other issues that I see but another Guardian nerf? I’d be very surprised and insulted at the same time.

I don’t know why you’re insulted. It takes 10 seconds for TU to apply its heal. It’s a heal over time. You could be dead before you get the full effect. Heals over times don’t save lives, burst healing does.

That couldn’t be more from the truth. What do you Guardians AH is? It’s very similar. HoT will save your life quite a bit if you’re not running a glass cannon build. This is especially true if your target decides to retreat or just dodge whatever you may have.

Edit: I’m just pointing out what I believe to be a really powerful skill. Any smart ranger will just pop it at 75% health as they’re fighting you.

Edit #2: Also you might want to reread. I stated I would be insulted by another Guardian nerf, not the ranger heal.

Firegoth.6427:

Edenwolf.6328:

Firegoth.6427:

Guardian is like the Dervish of GW1.
Always a buff, never a nerf.

Man I loved that class.

What are you smoking, guardian has only been recieving nerfs and no buffs.

If they even think of touching our greatsword/hammer skills im quitting the class, and there isnt another class I enjoy

What did they nerf? the GS switch between symbol and leap?
I can’t recall how anything we got, been significantly nerfed to the point of “omg”.

Personally, I play all classes, they all got their appeal as long as they have viable builds, and right now I play guardian, thief, warrior and engineer.
Anet going to buff other classes and nerf guarding? go for it, will just switch around.

GS symbol, SYS, Tomes to name a few….

Just fought a few professions today in a duel and found some interesting facts. Rangers Troll Unugent, which is on a 25 second cool down, heals for 10-12k.. This to me is insane. Symbol of resolve is on a 40sec cd healing for 8.5k. Does anyone here see a problem with this? Guardians are still the most immobile profession, requiring one to stand still for paltry benefits while others have free mobility along with boons. I still can’t wrap my head around this. There are other issues that I see but another Guardian nerf? I’d be very surprised and insulted at the same time.

Amins.3710:

Fair enough, but this whole thread stinks of “I can’t keep people where I want them, so the problem must be w/ the symbols”.

Have you guys even seen the kind of damage our symbols do? Probably not, because 95% of the people who play guardians are NOT spec’d for damage.

My symbols crit from 2k-3k and can do it 2-3 times, especially when combined w/ Chian & RoW.

On top of that, you can spec for healing w/ them, healing from the boons they give, and are INCREDIBLE Combo’s.

Symbols are fine.

Yours crit for 2-3k a tick on a target you’ll almost never hit.(pvp)

xiv.7136:

The whole discussion is ridiculous.

Guardians can send around aoe stability, aoe condition removal, protection, regeneration, might, aegis, dodge heals, virtues heals, retaliation, the list goes on – and yes, this is all in the same build.

Warriors can give 3 stacks of might and 8s of fury on a 20s cd – traited. And immobile banners for some fixed buffs on 240 sec cooldowns. Swiftness and vigor on warhorn. And they do weakness on enemies. That’s it.

There is literally no comparison in terms of group support.

Compare to auramancer ele, then you might have a basis for discussion.

All of which you listed are on a 5 second duration. Do you really believe 5 seconds is going to mean much in a long term fight? Some of these skills have as high as a 90 second cd(Aegis when activated) to give 5 seconds of protection…yay so good. The list doesn’t go on because the upkeep of these boons is so low that their usefulness is minimal unless you spec for duration and make yourself useless in terms of damage.

You also might want to add, How many professions are required to stay still(or in a small circle) to be effective?

Or just do away with the symbols. As it stands even with an increased radius, you’re still confined to a small circle that doesn’t promote mobile game play.

I had no idea that when specced warrior shouts heal everyone, I thought it was just for them. This really puts a strain on the Guardian. To add more insult to injury, the upkeep of guardian boons is pretty short when compared to say a warriors. 5 seconds of whatever on a 30 second or more cd.

Hey guys, just gonna give my opinion on this subject. I currently have over 1000 hours on my Guardian and i’m not saying i’m the best but I have a fair amount of knowledge on how this profession works. I’ll begin by saying that with the current meta game being surrounded by mobility, I think the Guardian lacks severely. Let me explain:

Most if not all the Guardians abilities to stay alive require him to stand in place thus making him/her an easy target. On the flip-side, you have the Elementalist who has free reign on mobility while providing similar survivability to himself(and party alike) without becoming an easy target. This to me, needs to be changed immediately. I don’t find it to be fun or effective standing inside a small circle(symbols) to actually keep myself afloat.

Guardian damage from what we’ve been told is sustainable. I’m fine with this if you’re actually able to keep up with your target. In PvE, this is easy but when you start fighting intelligent players, it becomes near-impossible. You maybe able to initially reach your target, but you’ll never keep up. This is also another flaw in the Guardians design.

As it stands, you MUST run at the very least MF or AH to even stand a chance of living long enough to make a difference in either PvE or PvP. There’s no room for change here. 30 in Valor will always be a must unless there’s another way of keeping oneself alive. This is another flaw(other classes have it similar) in this professions design that should be looked at.

Support as a Guardian is great, you have 4 shouts to choose from, 2 of which are excellent for your team. I have my doubts on “retreat” because of the long cd and it’s effectiveness. Empower is also another excellent tool to help not only keep himself alive(AH) but give your party a valuable damage increase. Symbols play an excellent role here for PvE since your target will never move so its effectiveness will remain intact. Again, outside of this, symbols are useless.

Archer speaks the truth. You will NEVER utilize your symbols as much as you think you do unless you’re playing PvE. This throws hammer out almost completely as a viable weapon in WvW. This could also be argued with the GS, no one will stand in it for more than a millisecond. Take a look at both of these weapons.

GS: WW is excellent for all around damage. LoF is unreliable at best with mediocre dmg. Binding Blade has a very noticeable telegraph making it easy to dodge, SoW speaks for itself.

Hammer: Symbol of protection is negligible since your targets will always be moving. Mighty Blow is also a very easy skill to dodge that does decent damage. Banish is a terrible skill that can easily be dodged, same with Zealots Embrace. RoF has too long of a cast time making it easy to avoid.

Combining both weapons leaves you with one option for the Hammer and two for the GS that will actually make a difference. Remember guys, this game is about movement, not about standing in ones AoE’s. You want permanent protection? Play PvE where the mobs stand still. This will NEVER work in WvW or spvp.

Here’s more, you have a shield that can give a cone protection and AoE KB. Problem here is they’re both on long cool downs and provide small effects. Shield of Judgement has been reduced to provide 3 seconds of protection on a 30 second cool down, Shield of absorption on a 40 and enemies can still enter. I’d rather have shield stance keeping myself alive from both melee and ranged.

I love my Guardian but the only real reason we stay alive in large-scale combat is the staff. Empower+AH keeps us alive and provides valuable boons to our allies. We cannot go into a group of mobs and do amazing burst damage because we will drop relatively fast. Sustainable damage is nice, but this game is all about burst. Retaliation will not save you when you’re getting hit for 6k and dealing back 300.

I’d love to see more mobility options for this profession. Not a fan of symbols at all, this encourages static and dull game play while making it ineffective in pvp.

We have cavalier type armor stats on rares but not exotics for level 80, can this please be implemented?

There’s ascended pieces with cavalier stats as well.

Amins.3710:

Just to touch on our Symbols on the Ground…

I use the hammer. It’s by far the best weapon we have.

1) Larger Symbols, Symbols Heal (or Empowering Might / depends on my mood and who i’m w/).
2) Symbols do more Dmg.

I’ve seen my Hammer Symbol crit up to 2.2k, give me protection & heal me.

To say our symbols lack luster is to say ’i’m not specing into symbols and thus don’t really see thier use’.

I completely agree that the hammer is the best Guardians have for PvE since all of the targets stand still. More mobility and thinking outside the box would be nice.

When looking at the Guardians mechanics you also have to remember that it is pretty much required that we have people around us and/or we stand still(symbols) to gain any real advantage. In contrast, look at the Elementalist who has free roam on whatever they do and is not limited by space with higher boon upkeep.

Area control- you have one very obvious kb(hammer) and a more instant one(shield). Both, in my opinion, on relatively long cooldowns for their use. (25 and 40 respectively) I don’t really consider symbols to be area control because they don’t really provide much of a threat to allow for said control.

Health pool- Aegis to me seems like a poor excuse for a form of mitigation, one hit and you’re done for 40 seconds(unless you renew focus), I would like to see more of a set amount blocked based on some stat, maybe toughness? Protection goes in more along the lines of having to stand still for any benefit(symbol of protection) which I find to be the opposite of what GW2’s combat really is. This is the same when utilizing the staffs empower ability.

Boon power- The Guardians boon upkpeep is terrible.(unless you’re standing still for protection) All utilities that provide boons are only at a base of 5 seconds on at least a 30sec cd. Granted they award it to everyone else near you which balances itself out. It would be nice if there was a way to be more of a selfish Guardian but I guess that might go against the teachings.

Condition removal- this goes without saying that when specced for it, Guardians have insane removal. Don’t get me wrong though, I find conditions easily reapplied even after cleansed.

Melee utility- Guardians are EXCELLENT at getting to their target but POOR at keeping them close. Sure, you can port to them but good luck staying near to do any real damage for more than a second.

I feel as if the Guardian should have more boon access/upkeep for themselves to be more along the lines of what Mr. Johnathon Sharp describes the Guardian profession. I also think that the Retaliation boon should be removed completely.

It’s not like they can’t make skills for specific weapons both for 2h axes and scythes.

I can’t find it. Besides the armor, they’re both very similar.

We’ve all played many games as of late and to me, I never feel a sense of power as I level up. For instance, when you a gain a skill at level 1, it looks puny and relatively weak. As you level-up, the effect looks the same but the damage increases. Why not have the effect look stronger? Maybe we can implement something like this into GW2.

Scythes fit Guardians perfectly. Look at the Dervish class. Very similar.

That makes sense, we just need a cripple attached to the symbols to actually keep players in them.

I just don’t like having to be in one place to stay alive.

The only spirit weapon I find useful is the hammer, that’s it. The consecrations are decent but along with symbols, I don’t like having to stand in one place for a benefit. This game is dynamic, constantly moving. I don’t see why certain skills can’t be revamped? Here’s my list of changes.

-Remove retaliation(it’s a lazy buff to inflict damage)
-change symbols to auras (make the necessary nerfs/buffs as needed)
-Have spirit weapons give a reasonable purpose and improve AI
-increase boon time when specced for it(just like how elementalists are)

I’d like to see the removal of Retaliation. But in return, give us more access to boons more frequently like the Elementalist has. As “boon fighters” we have very low durations to said boons with long cds.

Normally i’d agree but this profession actually has quite a bit of mobility in terms of teleports. So far, we’re the only class that doesn’t have cripples, stuns and now 25% movement speed boon. A little lopsided if you ask me.

Ganzo.5079:

Arken.3725:

I agree with Auras, I’ve been posting something similar like this for a few months. This game is too mobile to have symbols.

i dont know how the aura thing can be positive, without re-elaborate all the simbols.
Hammer simbol is always up, GS simbols is up only once every 20 seconds.

SImbols (and consecration) can be wonderful tools of field and position control. they need only the control part. (that now we are missing)

Arken.3725:

Edit: I’m not a fan of the current direction Guardians are being taken. We’re supposed to be powerful with boons yet the ones we have access to provide small duration/long cool down. I think we should have access to something similar to what Elementalists have. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen that profession have 40 seconds of regen, almost constant protection, same with vigor and swiftness while having 15 stacks of might.

i agree, all the guardians boon part, is handled in a really bad way.

I’m not disagreeing with the current state of say the hammer symbol but that only works because most of the time your target stands still. This almost never happens in pvp so the symbols become near useless.

I agree with Auras, I’ve been posting something similar like this for a few months. This game is too mobile to have symbols.

Edit: I’m not a fan of the current direction Guardians are being taken. We’re supposed to be powerful with boons yet the ones we have access to provide small duration/long cool down. I think we should have access to something similar to what Elementalists have. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen that profession have 40 seconds of regen, almost constant protection, same with vigor and swiftness while having 15 stacks of might.

I’m not really worried about the change to Vigorous precision as I am to some of the other issues we have. I’d still like a viable range weapon, access to cripples and stuns, more mobility for gods sake, and a way to utilize my conditions more. As it stands, Guardians MUST have either Monk’s Focus or Altruistic healing in any build. Don’t do this and you will get destroyed pretty quickly(due to low health).

I was also hoping that Arena net would of done something more with the traits such as consolidating the symbol traits in the Honor tree. As of right now I utilize all three in dungeons and i’m able to keep myself/teammates alive. And with the recent nerfs to our ability to apply boons, i’d like to see a change. Maybe something a little more defensive since our damage hasn’t increased.

I can see where you’re coming from but also those who had a heavy hand in utilizing this trait as a way of keeping themselves alive. I see this as both a buff and nerf, less critical chance builds are now more viable while those who rely on it for a little more healing got hit hard.

It’s a very powerful build just I hate how Unscathed contender works. It would make sense if it worked based on protection and reduced the damage boost.

It’s funny too because the issues I’ve listed were present even before all the other classes received buffs. We’re literally the only class that has no cripple, our ranged is pretty bad, we’re stuck with one condition to trait if we do decide to go condi specced, and our mobility is the worst in the game.

Plenty of issues I think should still be addressed:

Lack of cripples and stuns
Mobility
Scepter speed(or a viable ranged weapon)
Symbol trait consolidation
Condition damage specs

I was really hoping for the symbol traits to be combined. Three different traits in the same tree…ugh.

After reading it more in depth, yeah it is sort of a silent nerf to Altrusitic healing. =(

I’m glad they finally fixed the empower skill. The only things I see that are useful would be the vigorous precision and shimmering defense(condi specced) updates. I still find Unscathed contender to be useless(pvp) and the update on strength in numbers is still too small.

Edit: I was hoping they would buff the scepter, combine some of the symbol traits.

You’re right, sorry I misread. But the difference is that even with stability you can be damaged and have it removed. While invul, you’re good to go regardless of the situation.

Not all classes can go invul while stomping Flump. I’m not saying remove stealth but maybe disallow it from finishing players?

How can anyone argue this? He’s asking for a reasonable request to make them equal.

Guanglai is correct. Let me compound on his reasoning. The hammer on paper is an excellent weapon but in a game such as this where mobility is so important, it’s almost negligible. You’ll almost never hit a moving target with your Auto attack symbol, and the rest of the skills on the bar provide such a telegraph that it’s very easy to dodge.

I’m sure something is in the works to give us what we need. I honestly find it a little infuriating that someone can just strafe left or right to avoid the orbs.

This is actually a very sensible and levelheaded idea. Anyone disagree?

Give me a Scythe. I think it would be cool since it would be similar to the Dervish from GW1.

It’s very difficult for me playing as a Guardian. The only way I can stay alive is to go full bunker in which none of us dies.

Ganzo.5079:

Arken.3725:

A guardian in that situation would of died within a second. 8(

in second no… but very fast, yes.

I didn’t mean it like that but yes. It’s true, the Guardian doesn’t have many escape mechanisms.