Are there other abilities which have different functionality in PvE and PvP?
I think this is the first one.
But everything so far has been a significant decrease. 100% on cooldown increase for the GS symbol, 50% reduction on booms for SOY. I mean this isn’t a nerf, it’s a hammer to a skill.
Edit: I’d rather they remove some boons and keep the duration. I can’t stand the way it’s being handled.
(edited by Arken.3725)
Some of us enjoy spvp so….big nerf regardless.
The most you could increase it by was 6 seconds over all and an extra 2 seconds if you specialized in another. So you couldn’t get it to 20 seconds. Two runes of the monk and water give it 30% over all but then you needed to choose another two to specialize. And this is all counting the maximum trait line of virtues utilized.
I honestly couldn’t. I thought it was fine with a 60 sec cd. The balance was you took conditions from your teammates and applied it to yourself.
Does this affects WvW save yourselves? or just PvP?
I assume since WvW is PvP that it would.
I would honestly trade the renewed focus buff to bring this back. It’s almost useless on a 60sec cd. Throw us a bone here.
Can we PLEASE get a dev in here and tell us why we’re getting all of these nerfs? At least reduce the cooldown. Oh and look, a mere 10% dmg increase for a 100% nerf to Symbol of wrath, wonderful.
This better be a joke. We’ve been getting nerfed every kitten patch. This is terrible.
As a Guardian with 260 healing power, I get healed for 1920 each meditation. These skills scale terribly with healing power.
Just a quick question, say I have pure of voice traited but also have altruistic healing traited and I remove a condition from an ally turning it into a boon. Will I be healed for the application of the boon?
I find the Guardian to be a very skilled profession to play. Look at most of our skills, they require near perfect placement or you’ll miss. Other classes don’t have the obvious telegraphs like this one.
Dab I hope you do decide to play a Guardian, I love this profession and will never shelve it. =)
Hammers offer control if you can actually get them to hit. Like I said above, they’re easily dodgeable. That line of immobilize doesn’t even need to be dodged to be avoided, all you have to do is strafe left or right. Same goes with binding blade, they’re slow little blades that glide to your target and if that wasn’t enough, a spin beforehand gives you the hint that it’s coming.
I thought this might be a good idea to post this instead of making a thread so here goes. If you’re looking to play a Guardian there are a few things you should realize. I’ll go over the pros and cons of this wonderful profession and you can make your decision or ask questions if necessary.
Pros-
-Very high effective health
-Decent sustainable damage
-Incredible gap closers(see teleports)
-Support through shouts/virtues is in high demand
-Excellent if not one of the best point holders in the game next to Elementalists(spvp)
Cons-
-Lack of any real ranged weapons
-Our “hard hitting” skills have the most noticeable telegraphs in the game which will result in easy dodging for your opponent
-One of our main abilities focuses on static movement by both you and your opponent(symbols)
-No real way to apply condition damage in intensity(burning is really just an additive but nothing really significant)
-No cripples(to me this is a huge con)
-No stuns that affect skill timing(push backs do not affect the cd on skills)
Let me explain some of these. The Guardian might have the lowest tier of health but its effective health is MUCH higher due to protection and regeneration. If used correctly, you can pretty much count yourselves on the top tier. The Guardians damage isn’t the highest but certainly isn’t nearly the bottom. With burning to assist you, pressure can be sustained on your target for quite a while. Guardians have two gap closers through teleports which are awesome when getting to your target, the problem is once you get there, there’s no stopping your opponent from just running away since this class has no way to apply cripple. This goes hand in hand with symbols, you’ll be very lucky to keep your target inside one of these for more than a second.
Guardian support is almost unmatched when traited and can be an unbelievable asset to your team with an abundance of protection, retaliation, regeneration and might boons. This also is what helps us keep points in spvp matches while waiting for reinforcements.
If you plan on running any GS/Hammer builds, be cognisant of the slow activating and telegraphed skills. Every skill besides the AA and Whirling wrath ability in the GS set easily noticeable and can be dodged without any difficulty if you’re facing a competent opponent. Same goes with the Hammer except ALL of the skills on this weapon are incredible slow and can be dodged with ease.
The class has no real ranged weapon, we’ve all beat this into the ground so badly it’s not even worth mentioning. And finally, the class has no stuns to reset put skills on a cd.(unless you count the ToC elite) In fact, the Guardian has no actual stuns what-so-ever. We have a plethora of Knock backs and one daze, but no stuns.
I hope this helps you decide whether the class is right for you or not. =)
Interesting how it’s more effective to just AA with some weapons to achieve more dps than it is to use the other skills.
Suggestion: Give Altruistic Healing max targets, increase heal amount
in Guardian
Posted by: Arken.3725
It would be nice if Zealous blade would work properly. Might be more fun to play support.
I think we should slow down a bit. This is by far the greatest mmorpg I’ve ever played, even with the current balance issues. I honestly believe in the back of my mind that our beloved Guardians will get what we deserve and hope the love will come soon.
Hello, not sure if this has been discussed but is it possible to give 2h weapons two sigil slots? I’ve tested a lot of 1h weapons and it seems like the benefit of having a sigil in each weapon effects the characters overall performance. For instance, I put a sigil of of fire on a 1h sword and a sigil of rage on my off-hand weapon. Anytime I use the off-hand, it has a chance of proccing the fire sigils effect while still getting the benefit of the rage sigil. 2h weapons could greatly benefit from this.
I’m just come out and say the Guardian you fought, did very little damage to you and vice versa. His/her role in that match is to keep you occupied so reinforcements can arrive which exactly what happened.
At this point in time i’d say after the slew of nerfs, i’d give the guardian about a C+, maybe a B- depending on what you’re doing. We’re slowly seeing one of our main abilities quickly being wiped out of existence with no alternative nor compensation to said ability. I’ve said this before that Retaliation shouldn’t be allowed to be activated 90-100% of the time but what else do we have besides protection? The regeneration skills provided are mere peanuts compared to the elementalist or Engineer that can keep constant regen/protection. Combine this with no escape mechanisms or cripples, it’s a little boring and quite frustrating.
I’m one of those who loves the Greatsword. I still love it but finding it to be very boring and the abilities to be out of sync. It used to be Combo field-finisher-finisher and now it’s backwards. I say just remove retaliation completely and give us protection instead.
Edit: This profession was given its low tier health due to its defensive abilities. One of which has been nerfed every single patch, I dare say there has to be some middle ground here or at least a bump in vitality. If you’re going to take away one, buff the other.
(edited by Arken.3725)
Is it possible to ask for away to customize the skill bar? It won’t take long to learn the new skillset but the synergy isn’t there anymore. It used to be
Combo field-finisher-finisher.
Now it’s
Finisher-Finisher-combo field.
How the kitteeeeen does this help perform combos?
The only thing I disagree with Animus on is the fact that Guardians apparently aren’t supposed to be bursty. We were told in the beginning that we could play how we want and there are quite a few nice builds out that allow for such customization. =)
No one gives a crap about the retaliation nerf, most if not all of us here only care about the 100% increase to the cd and the skill placement……
I care about both the nerf and rearrangement of skills. Can we please get a response from a developer? There have been many cases where some of us have shown that it was fine before and in some cases, the nerf did a lot more damage than expected.
I agree, and it makes some sense except you shouldn’t give similar traits to each class and then give another a weaker version because your class is supposedly a master of said traits. Being a master of weapons also makes this assessment that more confusing. Each class utilizes a variety of weapons, why should one be able to use them with greater strength?
They wanted to improve it by reorganizing the skill-set, not because of the shortened CD. It even it says that exactly within the dev statement, don’t add onto it based on your own perception.
“Symbol of Wrath” was bad from the beginning vs moving targets since it roots the guardian ~0.5-1sec with the animation
now its even bad in static fights
Once again, this further reinforces the change of this skill. Mobility is key in this game, why hinder someone when there’s a way around it?
-Except Warriors Also have a trait similar to Monk’s Focus
-Eternal spirits range is completely borked allowing its usefulness to be at about maybe 600 if you’re lucky
-Renewed justice gives a nice touch to recharging VoJ but there’s plenty of traits buffing the adrenaline line
-Right-Hand Strength is awesome, can’t argue that one.
-Alturistic Healing is good, but with recent nerfs, it’s usefulness has gone down quite a bit.
-Vigorous precision is awesome too, can’t tell you how many times I’ve had 10 seconds of vigor due to critting 5 mobs multiple times with whirling wrath.
-Empowering Might is ok…just when I found out it had a 1 second cd, that brought it down a notch for me.
-I don’t think supreme justice is worth it, especially as a master trait. Every 4th swing is nice but since it only lasts 1 1/2 seconds, just doesn’t seem like a viable choice over maybe stability from courage or three conditions removed from resolve.
-Read above about absolute resolution. =)
Granted there’s quite a few nice traits, this doesn’t change the fact that when you give another class similar traits with less power that it’s ok. It doesn’t make sense.
Not sure how you can defend a decrease of a skill through such extremes. Nerfing/adjusting is through careful testing and chipping away at the opness of said skill. You don’t just go ahead and lay down the hammer on a skill making it near useless. Symbols are bad enough in pvp since no one ever stands in them for more than maybe a second. Now one of the symbols cd’s has been increased dramatically thus decreasing survivability, damage and the ability to perform combos. Symbols are one of the corner stones that makes the Guardian unique as well as retaliation and protection. When you take away any of these, there must be a balance and compensation from another source must be rendered.
There’s a reason why the Guardian has been put on the lowest health tier and it’s because of these unique skills bestowed upon us. Once again, take any of that away, you end up playing a lesser powered Warrior.
Edit: It seems to me that the Guardian might be going through major changes and by major, I mean skill changing. If I were to have any input about it, i’d gladly change symbols into a more mobile skill.
(edited by Arken.3725)
I know this hasn’t been brought up much but i’d like to see might blow be a little more responsive. As it stands, there’s about a 1/2-1 second delay to when the skill actually goes off. Maybe put this in line with Leap of Faith?
There are many ways to shut down a guardian. Here’s a few:
Kiting- guardians have no cripple and short duration immobilzations(2 seconds)
Conditions- Yes, we have multiple ways to dispel but there’s plenty of ways to reapply faster than we can get rid of.
Burst- Since the health tier of the guardian is so low, you can probably burst them down with a combination stability(avoid the shield push and ring of warding.)
The main thing is probably kiting, no cripples to keep you where we want you so you’ll have free reign to do what you wish.
I run a very similar build to what Shadow just described. GS/Hammer and the 20% reduction on them both is significant. It’s also worth noting that if you’re going honor, it’s probably best to go crit for the constant vigor you’ll obtain, especially with whirling wrath.
Not really. I’m running a GS/Hammer combo.
GS has a leap and pull
Hammer has two immobilise.Then I can always run Judge’s Intervention.
While I completely agree with our ability to close gaps between our opponents, we have no way of keeping them close after that(cripples). So if they survive the initial burst, it’s relatively easy for them to just retreat and come back.
It’s a nice video, I hope you guys continue to do well.
Right but is that the only saving grace for symbols?
And I agree with you. I just thought this discussion was leaning towards pvp is all. As much as I hate to say it, i’d rather prefer auras instead of symbols for mobility.
“They just immediately spec 30 points into it, take whatever traits are available there and that’s all there is to it for them, not realizing how much synergy there can be if you put your points elsewhere. It’s just stack power, toughness & vitality, grab a greatsword and see big numbers.”
Sometimes I don’t even know why I try to discuss something…
Zeal might not be balanced compared to other lines (matter of opinion), but it has it’s strengths and if you want to be blind about it, that’s not a problem. Just don’t assume everyone else is.
Enjoy your build. I’m enjoying mine.
I don’t think he’s trying to be blind. I just believe he’s trying to compare and have a discussion about each tree and what they have to offer. Zeal can be excellent for spirit weapons and symbols but as I stated above with how this game works, it’s very difficult if not impossible to take full advantage of each symbol.
It’s interesting how you can defend the use of traits like you’re actually going to get the full stack of damage/vulnerability off. This game is all about mobility and you’ll be lucky if you get one tick from any symbol.
I understand that just I was confused on why I wasn’t proccing more might ticks from multiple critical hit sources.
I think it’s also detrimental to classes on lower health tiers. If you’re a Warrior/necro, you can just get an amulet with power, precisions and condition and become insanely strong since your health is already pretty high.
I found one issue with empowering might, Anytime I crit multiple enemies at once,(whirling wrath) It doesn’t give me the amount of might buffs to the amount of crits I landed. This a bug?
1 Second Internal Cooldown.
Wonderful, that’s not stated in the trait. Thank you for clarifying.
I found one issue with empowering might, Anytime I crit multiple enemies at once,(whirling wrath) It doesn’t give me the amount of might buffs to the amount of crits I landed. This a bug?
I just want to recap and add some things I think should be altered and I would hope some would agree.
-Zealous blade needs to stack with a stat, 25 a hit isn’t significant enough even if it were an adapt trait.
-Zealots speed isn’t exactly what’s needed at 25% health. Why not have it give protection or swiftness?
-Binding Jeopardy I think should be changed to burning damage since, even when discussed earlier, Guardians don’t stack vulnerability very well.
-All downed and falling traits need to be replaced
-Any weapon master traits should add some flavor instead of a paltry 5% increase. I’ve looked at say the Mesmers traits and some give stat bonuses or range increases.
-Inner fire I think should have it’s named changed and affect all conditions but give a different boon so as not to be too powerful.
-I think the internal cooldown traits should be removed and added to another skill.
-Focused Mind should be changed since most of them are instant and 1 is less than a second for cast time.
-Combine the symbol traits
There’s more but I think most if not all of you get the jest of what I think should be altered.
I think we discussed this in another thread but not as indepth. Just to overcap, I generally believe in both pve and pvp situations, downed and falling traits are useless. If you’re participating in a jumping puzzle, you should be punished for making a wrong move, plain and simple. I also think the 5% damage increases for specific weapons is a little on the weak side and provides no flavor. After the recent nerf to wrathful spirit, I can’t see myself taking it over larger symbols or even reduced shout duration. I think
Pure of heart should be changed to regeneration instead of an instant heal and here’s why: Upon entering battle, you lose your first aegis at full health so you’re not benefiting from this trait from the first loss.
Strength in numbers needs to scale or be given a higher base stat specific to your level, 30 isn’t enough.
I also believe inner fire should be changed to be affected by all conditions and change it from fury to might so it doesn’t become too strong.
I can’t wait to see it, just there seems to be a lot of filler traits within all the professions, not just ours. I think some consolidation would really help to individualize yourself from the rest.(symbols in particular)
Also, I’ve noticed a few comments about too much ret and protection for the Guardian. Normally I would agree but when you’re on the lowest tier of health, this seems necessary. Once you take that away or reduce it significantly, you’re essentially playing a lesser powered warrior.
The tomes went from being too strong to being very difficult to pull off. Granted the #5 on each tome is awesome, what good is it if you can’t even utilize. It would make sense if the cast-time was lowered with the removal of stability.
Scepter speed seems to be the main issue. I’d like to see it be as fast as an arrow to be on par with other ranged weapons.
It makes more sense that way seeing as most of the traits affecting the spirit weapons are in the zeal tree anyway. It would allow as Eveningstar stated, more diversity and not so much restriction.