Guild Wars 2

We probably should stay on topic of the DH changes proposed. I feel like we’re almost there! Just 2…maykittenanges(in my opinion) and I think we’d be set.

I’ll just reiterate the changes I’d like to see with the recent update to what we’ll see on the next BWE.

Hunter’s fortification: I love the condition-removal on block but the 10% dmg reduction while not having conditions needs to be changed. Everything literally sneezes conditions so half of this trait is nigh-useless. Change it to 10% dmg reduction IF you have a condition on you.

Heavy Light: RNG-based stab/CC is quite the opposite of what people need and when they need it. You don’t need to push someone back randomly but when they’re pulling off something huge. Same can be said about the stability gained. I love the initiative but I think this is the only trait that needs a complete rework.

Except Medi is not THAT good, everything else just sucks in comparison. Valor in general isn’t nearly as strong as it used to be with the trait changes(most notably to MotP and GH).

I do agree it would be nice to branch out of Valor but that’s the defensive tree for sustain. Even with that you’re still about as tanky as a piece of paper. So once again, Valor is about average at best just everything else is incredibly subpar in comparison.

Writ of Persistence needs to be put as a master at the very least. Doesn’t belong in Honor, especially when competing against PoV. Also, Symbolic Avenger needs its buffed back to 20%

x indigo x.6981:

Arken.3725:

x indigo x.6981:

Arken.3725:

Dulled Senses: While it’s a nice addition to have the vuln, is it possible to consider changing it to something else? With how inconsistent it is to keep someone kbed even a few times, this is hardly any vulnerability to take advantage of. Instead of vuln, grant the Guardian swiftness?

I really really like this idea .. Switching the appliction of vaulnrability on applying cripple to be gain swiftness when you apply cripple would make much much more sense when the concept of dragon hunt relies on range.

I also would still like to emphasize the importance of making the trigger of cripple on virtue of justice passive become aoe when traited into Permeating Wrath GM in virtues. .. I would even go as far as to say the swiftness gain becoming aoe as well to allies would be really nice but that might be pushing it too far.

Summery: swiftness on cripple application makes more sense than vulnrability on cripple application since ranged is the context here.

That’s….an amazing way to look at it. Cripple grants swiftness?

Edit: There were only a few things I saw which included that, hunter’s fort and heavy light.

I was thinking of that in the context of equipping both zealots aggression and dulled senses. Since you’d be applying cripple on virtue of Justice passive, that’s swiftness would be very handy in repositioning and keeping the distance from the enemy.

Edit: it is especially useful since the only knock back we have on bow is based on ring making us lack on demand cc.

Very true, this would allow for decent mobility.

Edit: That’s what I mean, any type of RNG of this nature isn’t very useful(in pvp). I still think Hunter’s fort should grant 10% damage mitigation when you have a condition on you. Again, everyone and their mothers spew out conditions. This is essentially like Unscathed Contender, amazing on paper but rarely useful for more than a second.

x indigo x.6981:

Arken.3725:

Dulled Senses: While it’s a nice addition to have the vuln, is it possible to consider changing it to something else? With how inconsistent it is to keep someone kbed even a few times, this is hardly any vulnerability to take advantage of. Instead of vuln, grant the Guardian swiftness?

I really really like this idea .. Switching the appliction of vaulnrability on applying cripple to be gain swiftness when you apply cripple would make much much more sense when the concept of dragon hunt relies on range.

I also would still like to emphasize the importance of making the trigger of cripple on virtue of justice passive become aoe when traited into Permeating Wrath GM in virtues. .. I would even go as far as to say the swiftness gain becoming aoe as well to allies would be really nice but that might be pushing it too far.

Summery: swiftness on cripple application makes more sense than vulnrability on cripple application since ranged is the context here.

That’s….an amazing way to look at it. Cripple grants swiftness?

Edit: There were only a few things I saw which included that, hunter’s fort and heavy light.

Karl McLain.5604:

Hey all. Following up on what we talked about last week. Here’s a few more things that we’re looking at doing:

Longbow update

Deflecting Shot: The last time I posted, the note I had on this was a vague ‘damage increase’ thing, which met with fair opposition. We’ve had a little more time to look into the ability and have tweaked it a fair amount so that it can retain its primary defensive functionality and still reward you for reactive play. Here’s what we’ve got -

• Reduced missile velocity by 25% (it traveled too fast to really block much). Reduced after-cast by 300 milliseconds. Increased base damage by 13%. Destroying a projectile with this ability increases the damage it deals by 100%. Increased the blocking radius by 33%. The attack radius of this ability has not been increased.

• Symbol of Energy: Removed the burning on impact (no other symbol has an additional effect, so this felt weird). Increased damage dealt by 10%.

Virtues:

• Spear of Justice: Increased missile velocity by 100%. Reduced the casting speed from 3/4 second to 1/4 second.

• Shield of Courage: The shielding effect now occurs the moment this ability starts. Lowered after-cast by 200 milliseconds. We’re also looking into a better functionality for the shield.
  Where we’re at: Currently, you block all attacks for allies within the radius, but you don’t get any feedback for it… so we’re looking to improve that. The shield also doesn’t really benefit you, other than missile blocking (which is good, but feels like it should do more, being that you’re giving up instant casts). The current idea is to block attacks from the front (within the shield you’re projecting), but be vulnerable from the back to ensure counter-play.

• Wings of Resolve: We’re waiting to see how the current implementation plays out, being as the ability has a greatly increased healing application and has access to 3 seconds of immobilize.

Traits:
There’s been some merging and creation of new trait types for the Dragonhunter line. There are now a couple of direct defensive options, in addition to some stronger power/damage ones. The goal here was to give different clear avenues (damage, utility, virtues… with some overlap)

Adept – Piercing Light: The bleeding effect only really benefited a couple traps, where we wanted the effects of this trait to enhance each one in the same way.

• The bleeding functionality has been removed and will now daze enemies for 1 second when traps enter their ‘activating’ state.

Adept – Dulled Senses: Moved here from the Master tier! Enemies you knock back are crippled. Enemies you cripple receive Vulnerability. Reduced the vuln from 3 stacks for 5 seconds to 1 stack for 8 seconds.

Master – Hunter’s Determination: Drop a Fragments of Faith trap at your location when you’re crowd-controlled.

Master – Zealot’s Aggression: Deal extra damage to crippled enemies. Damage bonus increased from 7% to 10%. Justice’s passive effect cripples enemies (1.5s).

Grandmaster – Hunter’s Fortification: The area effect protection was bland and, while defensive, didn’t really portray the more selfish dragonhunter nature that likes to hold an advantage over their enemies. We’ve replaced this with a bit different defensive nature that’s also more synergistic with Hunter’s Determination.

• Remove conditions when blocking attacks (1 per block, ICD 1 second). Receive 10% less damage when you have no conditions on you.

Grandmaster – Heavy Light: Merged the aspect of Hunter’s Determination.

• Longbow arrows knock back enemies that are within the range threshold (10s ICD). Gain stability (1 stack, 5 seconds) when you knock an enemy back in this fashion.

Please keep in mind that (as before) these things won’t be in the next BWE, but in a future update. As always, thanks for your constructive feedback!

Cheers,
-Karl

Hey dude, Arken here and awesome to hear ya on this side. Just a little bit of my own feedback. Please take into consideration.

Deflecting Shot: Excellent change. I did a test on this against a friend who utilized Rapid Fire and I believe it only blocked 2 shots so this is a welcome change.

Spear of Justice: Excellent change, especially to the velocity as this suffered from scepter/long bow’s strafing issue’s.

Shield of Courage: I still think that if this is going to stay a personal shield that it really should block all frontal attacks for the guardian and not just ranged. It’s very difficult to keep your allies within a small radius to protect them. Maybe change it to be completely selfish?

Wings of resolve: Following the theme of a more selfish type of virtue, maybe grant this evasion frames so it can’t be interrupted.

Piercing Light: I was hoping Guardians would have more condition access but this isn’t a bad change since we also lack a lot of hard-cc(Daze/stuns especially).

Dulled Senses: While it’s a nice addition to have the vuln, is it possible to consider changing it to something else? With how inconsistent it is to keep someone kbed even a few times, this is hardly any vulnerability to take advantage of. Instead of vuln, grant the Guardian swiftness?

Hunter’s Determination: This looks neat, would have to see the ICD and how many fragments are dropped to judge.

Zealot’s Aggression: Excellent trait. I love this. Reverted the damage AND made justice’s passive cripple. My only gripe is that this, along with a few other traits(purity of body, zealous scepter) is that this discourages you from activating your virtue’s which I still believe isn’t very good design.

Hunter’s fortification: Excellent change but I think half of this trait is essentially useless. Every class sneezes our conditions so I think this part needs to be changed. Why not have 10% mitigation while having a condition on you? As a GM this seems to be fair.

Heavy Light: Nice to see a merge but not a huge fan of the RNG factor. You need Stability on-demand, not randomly. Same thing applies to the KB. I think this is the only trait that needs to be completely overhauled.

Gotta say, amazing in depth analysis on DH. Most of the changes I can agree with, let me list!

Spear of Justice: I’m fine with this but just like LB #1, it needs better tracking since it can be strafe-dodged.

Wings of Resolve: This would be really neat since we have no evasion skills.

Shield of Courage: I personally think this should just be a personal frontal shield that blocks all attacks but that’s just me.

Long Bow: Pretty much agree with all, especially the symbol. Long bow affords zero defensive skills and this would help.

Traps: Unfortunately I ignored only because as I’ve stated many times in other threads, you lose too much sustain when taking them so there’s almost nothing you can do to make them appealing.

Traits:

Hunter’s Fort: I like this change, it will allow Guardian’s to not have to rely completely on Virtue’s for protection access.

Defender’s Dogma: Awesome change too, this helps to utilize your class skill. I’ve said this a million times but traits that discourage you from activating your virtue’s are bad by design.

Zealot’s March: Not a huge fan of this one in particular. It’s a nice suggestion but I don’t think many would take it. Maybe add on that you can’t be CCed while channeling?

Obtena.7952:

Arken.3725:

I’m not saying to ogle the forums day in and day out for suggestions but occasionally take a look. I’m also not saying to take every single suggestion into consideration because honestly, a lot of people might have good intentions but the suggestions made are lopsided at best.

How do you know they aren’t doing that? You can’t assume they aren’t, just because they don’t reply as much as you think they should.

I don’t know but have you seen any of the suggestions put forth by players ever actually implemented? I haven’t.

I’m not saying to ogle the forums day in and day out for suggestions but occasionally take a look. I’m also not saying to take every single suggestion into consideration because honestly, a lot of people might have good intentions but the suggestions made are lopsided at best.

Obtena.7952:

Why not answer? Most likely because devs aren’t required to do forum ‘work’. That’s not about transparency because that’s not related to them telling us how they work, a choice they made and why. Answering questions isn’t transparency.

Ok then, don’t answer. But at least take it into consideration because lets be honest, there are some gems that have been suggested in comparison to what we’ve gotten. Example: Force of Will, this trait was made with ZERO imagination and was a kitten attempt at giving Guardians more vitality in a line where it directly competes with one of our best traits. I’d be willing to bet that anyone of us could have thought of a far superior trait that doesn’t put it in the OP territory.

Obtena.7952:

Arken.3725:

We have a stickied thread because every specialization will get one, it’s not because of transparency.

That’s just WOW … that’s the essence of them being transparent with us. They don’t HAVE to do this; they do it because they want us to understand the changes and be open with why it’s changing. THAT IS TRANSPARENCY.

That’s not the point I was making. The point I was making was that if a decent suggestion is thrown around once in a while and is NOT related to some significant release(expansion) then why not answer? I do not find this to be transparent at all. We were going to find out about these changes regardless if they made the thread or not.

I think it would be a good idea to remove the bounce and do something different with the auto. Having a target directly behind the one you’re hitting to proc off a second hit and cripple requires the stars to be in near-perfect alignment.

We have a stickied thread because every specialization will get one, it’s not because of transparency. And you’re right, they have no obligation to answer to us but then why bother having professional forums to begin with? Each person(developer alike) as their own way of balancing and that’s fine. However, if someone or a group of people present you with something that sounds reasonable, why not acknowledge/discuss it?

Obtena.7952:

rbbthole.9074:

I see this as a reply to BWE and I feel like it deserve a new topic.. I’m a dreamer.. maybe one day the Dev we need just come out, see this and will decide to help our “good spot” class..
ps: as always, forgive my english <3

Really? You thought some QQ deserved a new topic? This is one of the reasons you’re LESS likely to see a dev converse with us in the forums. Keep it up people.

Normally i’d be 100% on your side with this one Obtena but lets be honest, even when talking with respect while providing decent feedback we still get absolutely no transparency so…can you really blame them?

garull.8956:

This https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHwxALLH7nY

And this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3mUpxxbM1Y

Won’t be fixed … Why not put the same mechanic of longbow 3 on Virtue of justice?

I didn’t test Spear of Justice but i’m not surprised. And like Garull stated, it won’t be fixed because if you look at Scepter Auto, it’s been broken for 3 years.

purecontact.1680:

Arken.3725:

I wanted to post this but I still think Big Game Hunter isn’t very good for its slot. 10% increase isn’t really GM worthy. Not too many good choices left.

Rofl.
I guess you didn’t get there is a line “vulnerability on hit” in this trait…

I’m a little upset, they didn’t reduce cooldown of LB#5.
But nvm, let see what this things do at the next beta, I’ll feedback again on it if it’s still a big prob.

Oh I saw it. Tying a GM slot to 1 skill(that can easily be dodged btw) doesn’t jive with me.

Westwater.1095:

And once again, the other two grandmaster traits are virtually useless compared to Big Game Hunter. Wasn’t it stated a while back that GM traits are supposed to heavily impact how the class plays? I really don’t see that coming out of the other 2 traits.

Also we STILL have the stupid longbow trait as a minor? WHY?! Why should I have to waste a trait if I want to use traps on a melee build?

I wanted to post this but I still think Big Game Hunter isn’t very good for its slot. 10% increase isn’t really GM worthy. Not too many good choices left.

Manimarco Devil.1790:

Arken.3725:

Just another point to add:

Hunter’s fortification isn’t worth a GM slot, 3 seconds of protection is too short to justify it for any slot really. I thought this would be completely changed?

Shield of Courage: Why is this still JUST a projectile block? It’s the same thing Revenant’s have on their hammer but with a MUCH higher cd. This should block ALL attacks in front of you.

Actually I’ll refer you to this thread.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Bug-DH-s-SoC-block-not-applying-to-caster/first#post5369449

If this is correct then the shield should block all attacks but does apply the buff to the guardian properly.

Thank you. I think for it to work, the shield would literally need to be right in front of the Guardian and not have a space between him and the shield. I think it needs to happen due to the massive CD it’s on.

edit: Not to mention Revenant’s have a Darkfield applied to theirs for lifestealing and ours does…what?

Just another point to add:

Hunter’s fortification isn’t worth a GM slot, 3 seconds of protection is too short to justify it for any slot really. I thought this would be completely changed?

Shield of Courage: Why is this still JUST a projectile block? It’s the same thing Revenant’s have on their hammer but with a MUCH higher cd. This should block ALL attacks in front of you.

Lyger.5429:

Arken.3725:

Bow:
#1: The auto still misses, please watch this to fix. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4obqZBr49tY

Woah is this a joke? That thing misses at basically point-blank range. Specter does this too? Did ranger Longbow 1 do this before the change cause I never noticed?

Scepter is worse. Both miss pretty much unless you’re RIGHT in front of someone.

Soaring Devastation: Not sure if this needed a buff to immobilization. Maybe a damage increase instead of the immob increase.

Heavy Light: Not sure if this needed a nerf, was never really powerful, just annoying.

Symbol of Energy: I like this change, awesome. Helps dps guardian who don’t use Honor(most don’t).

Traps overall: Excellent changes but again, you’re losing too much sustain taking these instead of meds/shouts (pvp).

Piercing Light: Excellent change. I was hoping you’d change it something other than bleeding on hit since Procession of Blades is the only multi-hitting trap that would hit this consistently.

Changes that are still needed:

Bow:
#1: The auto still misses, please watch this to fix. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4obqZBr49tY

#2: Possibly change to allow while moving, not entirely necessary.

Silhouette.5631:

Arken did you just say cancel rapid fire? You realize the whole point of that attack is to be FAST. That’s like asking somebody to do a backflip mid punch (Which you technically can do in this game but that’s besides the point >.<).
Besides we already have punishment for rapid attacks in the form of retaliation

Did you not see the smiley at the end of my comment? Come on mang.

Edit: And that’s not entirely true. I have a friend who will cancel it to avoid giving Guardian’s might-stacks.

merchantchuck.4875:

Arken.3725:

merchantchuck.4875:

I complained about it when they changed it but heard nothing back. I find it extremely ridiculous that they changed it, i could understand the burning on block trait because with how burning is now that would be overpowered, but this change was dumb.

It’s interesting because the vast majority of burning damage doesn’t come from blocking now but rather a mixture of Torch #4, Purging Flames and Justice procs. I honestly believe that even if the burn on block didn’t have an ICD, this wouldn’t change.

but at the same time, one misplaced rapid fire into a shelter = dead ranger :p

Very true, not going to dispute that. I will say this, you can always cancel-cast the Rapid fire if you see you’re taking dmg.

Google-foo for the win man. Regardless, thanks.

@Indigo: I think it would be a neat concept to have symbols apply cripple per pulse. I think i’d keep Symbolic Avenger as a damage bonus for the Guardian(I do like your idea though of spreading it to others as well, either would work honestly). I also believe that each tier of traits within Zeal SHOULD be symbol related since, well, the minors are. If someone wants to build something entirely around symbols, it should come from Zeal.

I think if Symbolic Avenger was both a 20% dmg bonus and applied cripple on pulse it would be a bit too powerful. However, having say a Master-tier trait that does the trick isn’t a bad idea at all since you’re sacrificing that slot for it to work.

merchantchuck.4875:

I complained about it when they changed it but heard nothing back. I find it extremely ridiculous that they changed it, i could understand the burning on block trait because with how burning is now that would be overpowered, but this change was dumb.

It’s interesting because the vast majority of burning damage doesn’t come from blocking now but rather a mixture of Torch #4, Purging Flames and Justice procs. I honestly believe that even if the burn on block didn’t have an ICD, this wouldn’t change.

Bumping thread to give an update on the recent raits as well as a bit of DH from the last BWE in the OP. Thanks to Tarsius for assisting me in finding this one(I feel like an idiot not being able to do so).

Just projectiles that are behind the shield, nothing else.

Great video. Far better editing than I could do.

Manimarco Devil.1790:

Arken.3725:

One last thing to add. Bow will not see any real play in PvP due to the loss of sustain you gain from running X/Focus. There are no defensive capabilities attached to this weapon so you’re essentially a sitting duck.

I disagree, it simply requires a new playstyle with longbow as main dps and secondary weapons to swap to in case you get focused.

The point of this weapon was to promote back-line assistance but as I’ve stated many times, you can’t do that due to a few factors:

1. The auto is easily strafeable due to how inferior the tracking is with it. If you look here on my page http://www.twitch.tv/bigheart_gamer/v/10049334 at around the 1:05:00 mark you’ll see the problem is just as apparent as the Scepter’s. This isn’t a bug but rather a design flaw since it’s been 3 years and Scepter is still plagued with the same problem.

2. Having a skill root you in place should yield significant benefit. While Trueshot can do significant damage, it comes at a significant cost. I was only able to do the damage you see in that VOD because of my significant investment into power and pretty much nothing else.

3. Deflecting shot does anything but deflect. What’s a single blind that barely blocks any barrage of ranged attacks? Again, if you watch the vod you’ll also notice we test how effective it is against rangers towards the beginning.

4. The symbol of energies arc time was too long and like other symbols, it’s pretty dangerous for you as a Guardian to stand in it(since the benefit is nil) and to keep your enemy in it(which you can’t since it’s so tiny and the damage is also nil).

5. Hunter’s Ward is amazing.

Traps:

Every single trap requires your opponent to screw up and if they see you plan something on the ground, chances are, they won’t run in it. Having skills require the ineptitude of your opponent are terrible by design since they don’t actually reward the player doing well.

Traits:

Piercing Light: This seems like a kitten attempt at giving Guardians yet another option to have a viable Condition build.

Zealot’s Aggression: Reducing this to 7% was weird enough but the main issue is that this doesn’t work by itself since Guardian’s application of cripple relies upon the enemy screwing up and not the Guardian performing well.

Soaring Devastation: Excellent damage, immobilization was nerfed heavily for a skill that’s on an incredibly long cd and short-range leap.

Bulwark: At first I thought Shield of Courage blocked all attacks in front of you but that’s not the case at all making this trait even more useless. It’s a poor-mans version of the #4 hammer on Revenant.

Dulled Senses: This should have been combined with Zealot’s aggression and Heavy-light.

Hunter’s Fortification: Incredibly small-ranged and short-duration Protection as a GM? Absolutely terrible. Hate to make the comparison but Ele’s fart out Prot with the same ranged for more duration on far less of a cd.

Big Game Hunter: 10% dmg modifier for a GM? Again, pretty bad for such a slot.

Overall: Pretty weak weapon due to its flaws. Traps relying too much on your enemy to screw up and traits that don’t Synergize well at all and are actually pretty weak when you break them down.

Nike.2631:

Arken.3725:

One last thing to add. Bow will not see any real play in PvP due to the loss of sustain you gain from running X/Focus. There are no defensive capabilities attached to this weapon so you’re essentially a sitting duck.

So when the Devs say “The Dragonhunter is designed to serve in the Backline” what did you think that meant?

If we had 8v8 PvP, there’d be a backline, but the rolling shuffle that is 5v5 you pretty much ALWAYS end up with somebody directly in your face… No backline build fairs well in that environment.

Normally you’d think this would work but since the auto is terrible at tracking(did a test and it was still missing at 600 units).

Also, the traits are a mess with all of the GM’s not even being worthy of being GM’s.

One last thing to add. Bow will not see any real play in PvP due to the loss of sustain you gain from running X/Focus. There are no defensive capabilities attached to this weapon so you’re essentially a sitting duck.

CandyHearts.6025:

lzboon.9408:

CandyHearts.6025:

Not going to fill out my full observation of DH just yet but is anyone feeling that we could immensely benefit from finally getting a trait or utility with +25% movespeed?

It could be just me. Just in my opinion if you want to invest in LB play, you aren’t going to invest as much into VIT and Toughness. So being able to be more mobile is almost crucial to DH. This is just my feelings though so far.

I agree on the need for 25% ms too

Thank you! Say I want to invest fully into LB which means I’d go for more zerk. I’m such a sitting duck with being rooted and lack of movement speed compared to everyone else. This +25% movement speed for DH would make sense. A hunter’s prowl. It could easily be added to the traits. This would make DH tempting to pick up because we’d no long be that one class stuck with rune of the traveler.

To me and perhaps I am wrong in circumstances of DH. LB means kiting. We need to be able to keep distance from the enemy. Traps bait us to get closer. We need to be able to get in and out a lot faster. 1 600 range leap is SOME help… but not enough to provide valid archery gameplay.

Anyway I still can’t post much else about it. I just feel like it’s clunky, slow, and more slow. My impression is that we’d give LB ranger a fair contest but at this point it’s not EVEN a contest. DH needs a get well soon card. :/

That’s an absolutely terrible idea. You need to request something obscene or else you won’t receive it. Remember, craziness gets through, not reason.

LB:

1. Auto has the same issue as Scepter Auto, it’s constantly obstructed/out-of-range even when you’re not. I don’t think this will be fixed due to the fact that Scepter has been this way for 3 years.

Traps:

All of them are useless for PvP due to the lack of sustain you gain from any of them.

Traits:

Feels like many of these don’t have much synergy with the skills/utilities.

Overall: Pretty disappointed with the traps, Longbow auto suffers from the Scepter-syndrome, traits lack any real “umph”.

I completely agree that those are also strong but it still doesn’t take away from the fact of how strong Smite Condition is.

I’m all for the cleansing but why not do it in stages like Tarsius suggested? Increase the damage based on the number.

Saiyan.1704:

Arken.3725:

He’s 100% correct, the skill has no counterplay(outside of being ranged) while doing a significant amount of damage in an area. I love my Guardian and even I can see the bs in it.

Edit: Just to clarify, any instant skill has basically no counterplay to it, just sayin’

There is no BS in Smite Condition. It’s 100% fair on a class with several weaknesses. Our weaknesses are so apparent, we have arguably 1 build viable build in Tournament play.

The only thing I agree is that all instant casting skills in this game are uninterruptable/preventable/dodgeable because.. they’re instant casting skills. If people are looking for a more skill based game, I recommend a Moba or FPS shooter.

Having glaring weaknesses don’t justify such an insanely strong skill. Instead of just throwing together broken skills, why not fix the issue’s at hand? And before people bring up the whole, “well every class has weaknesses” please note this has been debunked many times with other professions.

I’ve always loved the concept of Mantra’s. Instant by nature and yet difficult to setup mid-fight against competent opponents.

Nike.2631:

What makes you think they don’t track Guardian performance every second of every day?

As the class that they have consistently said is “in a good place”, you can be pretty sure they’re happy with the skills — all the skills — in the broader context of the profession. And don’t think they don’t know what percentage of guardians has each utility equipped. Clearly Smite hasn’t thrown any red flags for a long, long time.

That’s about as legit as it gets.

I don’t think this is a valid argument. If this were the case, then when looking at say Prismatic Understanding as the most ridiculously lopsided trait in the game before the patch and STILL buffing it shows me that there is no “tracking” and just guessing.

He’s 100% correct, the skill has no counterplay(outside of being ranged) while doing a significant amount of damage in an area. I love my Guardian and even I can see the bs in it.

Edit: Just to clarify, any instant skill has basically no counterplay to it, just sayin’

There’s a similar video of a charr Guardian autoing an Asura on Khylo with the little guy strafing back and forth. I can’t seem to find it but this has been an issue for 3 years.

Weapons:

Great Sword:

#2: I completely agree with this change. I always compare it to Whirlwind(Warrior 3) that does similar damage quicker and acts as both an evade and mobility.

#4: Symbols in general are lackluster overall so i’d love to see either this replaced or the damage/benefits front-loaded.

Sword:

#1: The auto on the 3rd attack needs to change. Agree with this one as well

#3: Biggest weakness to the Guardian is mobility. Why use a skill to help your enemy gain even more distance on you?

Hammer:

#1: I’d like to see this buffed to be slightly faster.

Mace:

#1: The auto on the 3rd attack needs to cleave.

#2: Same argument for symbols being lackluster, see change on GS above.

#3: Change to work only when struck in melee range like other blocks.

Scepter:

#1: Fix this god-awfully slowly projectile to actually hit.

Torch:

#5: I’d like to see this help remove conditions from the Guardian as well. Not sure how many but as it stands, it’s better to not even use this and just auto.

creepmatic.9435:

Drennon.7190:

Using this now

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vVAQNAsdRlsAhqhY3QwcIwPEH+DVOCrwL0GAdbdeD3L4DA-TZBFABPcIAE4MAIeZA52fAgHAAA

I use the same setup, only I pick up UC in virtues. And I switch to Radiant Fire when i’m playing with Rampager’s Amulet and torch.

Arken.3725:

Terrible build, to be expected though.

It’s basically the old 0.6.6.1.1 without vigor but with the full virtues line at your disposal. You have nice burst and great team support in the same time. I don’t know why you would call that terrible :/. Or you mean terrible as in a good way? Sorry if I didn’t picked up the sarcasm.

Half sarcasm. Running double-melee in spvp is a death sentence. The other half is this guy loves to troll me so I figured i’d give a small dose back.

Black Box is the Guardian we need right now.

Terrible build, to be expected though.

Pros

-Condition damage changes help make Burn-Guardian pretty decent.

-New flavorful and useful traits(wrath of justice) are always welcome.

-Focus’s base cd was reduced, I always believed the cd’s were a bit too long to begin with.

-Our RF now has a contender in Feel my Wrath(Though it’s only really useful as a bunker instead of dps)

Cons

-Loss of 4 damage modifiers(radiant power, powerful blades, evasive power and scepter power) and a nerf of one(fiery wrath) was completely unnecessary. Guardian burst was never unreasonable to begin with and easily noticed/telegraphed.

-Offensive symbol builds are still incredibly weak for how limited they really are.

-Most prominent traits still don’t have decent competition so you’re stuck with many of the same ones you used to use.

-ICD to Might of the Protector was also unnecessary. You never saw Guardians with 25 stacks of might.

-Scepter AA still misses most of the time due to its slow velocity.

-Signets, Spirit Weapons and most Consecrations are still not utilized (spvp).

-Retaliation traits(retaliation in general), can’t really expand on this one aside from the fact that it’s a terrible boon.

-Still the slowest profession without any real ranged capability.

-Shield…

-Traits that require you to never trigger your profession skills(Zealous Scepter and Purity of Body) make no sense.

-Traits that only work upon revival/kill(Courageous return, Renewed Justice) are completely useless in combat.

Here’s another continuation! 12 Knock-offs for this attempt!

Excellent upkeep on the condition-guardian meta. Well done dude.

Sigh, why do I even bother. That is the one of your primary goals is to keep them inside for what you call, “burst potential.” And you cannot control movement on a Guardian when you have no soft-cc to speak of. Have you ever played Guardian?

Like I said, keeping anyone with half a brain inside of them is nigh-impossible. Unless you’re running hammer(and even then), good luck making half-use of them. And it’s not “huge amounts of AoE pressure” by any means. The damage is decent with more sustained potential, not burst.

Symbols are fine in PvE where your enemy never moves. PvP, quite the contrary and as I’ve said before, skills that require you to keep an enemy need to be quite a bit stronger than those that can be used without such restrictions.

Ars Valde.8693:

Arken.3725:

Black Box.9312:

10% is pathetic for a grandmaster major trait. It needs to be at least 15%.

Still wouldn’t touch it at 15%(needs to be 20). Hell, even if this was 20% I probably wouldn’t use it due to how difficult it is to make a symbol build in spvp(You’d need Zeal, honor, valor).

Symbols aren’t something you build around, they’re a tool available to weapons with them. Shouts and Meditations are a line and build because of their universality, symbols will never be something more than an area control tool and damage source like any other ability weapons have.

Especially in a game heavily about mobility. You can use them for area control and punishment for fighting in tight spaces, but attempting to center a build around them rather than accepting them as a unique additional mechanic guardians have is, I feel, the wrong way to approach them.

That’s completely false. If this wasn’t the case then we wouldn’t have so many symbol traits to begin with. Due to the lack of soft-cc and any real mobility, symbols are actually counter-intuitive to this games design and thus SHOULD provide a significant damage bonus due to that fact. If it’s nigh-impossible to keep any competent enemy(player) within a specific area(especially with no soft-cc attached) then it should be strong.

I compare this to the ridiculously strong Berserker’s Power to which you have no real limitation and the damage bonus is significant. If anything, due to the nature of how hard it is to use symbols, the damage should have been reversed(10% for them, 20% for us). The whole risk vs. reward deal is completely thrown out the window now.

Edit: You have 4 symbol traits, 1 meditation trait and 1 shout trait….come on.