Guild Wars 2

So if we look at all the traits to see how well it would work with melee, it’d look like this.

Minors: All except Pure of Sight would work well within melee

Majors: All except Heavy Light and Hunter’s Determination work well within melee.

The one issue I have is with Pure of Sight and that’s because as a minor, you have no choice in the matter.

MiniEquine.6014:

Arken.3725:

I think you guys have it wrong. It’s more of a concern Black Box has rather than hatred. There’s nothing wrong with pointing out flaws and/or concerns. A good reiteration would be as to why Guardians received traps in the first place when we have an abundance of Area-of-denial to start with. Another good argument is why have a ranged trait only work with 1 weapon (since the others tracking is so horrible). These are concerns and justified as well.

The difference between pointing out concerns and doing what Black Box is doing, is that they are refusing to see any viability with the spec at all. There are some aspects that are clunky, but there are others that are good. You can make viable builds with this spec.

I’m with you in that regard, I’ve already started theory crafting my next spec and I think it’ll be amazing. I am with the crowd that’s curious as to why we got traps when we have symbols/consecrations. It is what it is. In regard to melee-support, there are a lot of choices to be had to support yourself. I just wish we had confirmation if Shield of Courage actually BLOCKS or just destroys hits in front of you.

Edit: Also, if what I saw was correct, Shield of Courage did destroy/block directly in front of you, even melee attacks from the Warrior’s Hammer so that would assist GREATLY with melee-support.

I think you guys have it wrong. It’s more of a concern Black Box has rather than hatred. There’s nothing wrong with pointing out flaws and/or concerns. A good reiteration would be as to why Guardians received traps in the first place when we have an abundance of Area-of-denial to start with. Another good argument is why have a ranged trait only work with 1 weapon (since the others tracking is so horrible). These are concerns and justified as well.

I see the argument for push backs mostly utilized to keeping your opponent away from you(in most situations). I will say, when utilizing a port+ring you can get at least one kb on someone but as a reliable source, probably not.

Also, the Scepter AA(unless fixed anytime soon) is completely unreliable unless you’re within melee range thus negating any benefit from Pure of Sight.

Edit: Just to clarify a post on the 1st page regarding Defender’s Dogma and Shield of Courage. From the pvp video vs. the Warrior, it didn’t seem like you actually blocked but rather destroyed what was in front of you so you won’t gain any benefit.

Not sure if that’s 100% correct Slayer in terms of kitability. What I mean by this is when I was watching the video, there seemed to be some “obstruction” issue’s (same with scepter) on the auto-attack. Really hoping this isn’t the case.

Slayersixx just reiterated my feelings over general condition builds a 1000x over. Power is and will always be the way to go to show off any semblance of skill.

Shoutbow pretty much completely replaced Bunker Guardian. Their overall conditional cleanses exceed that of a Guardian while also maintaining much higher sustainability, mobility and having above-average dmg output.

Just as Vizard stated, offensive bunkers tend to be favored since they have almost as much mitigation while maintaining significant dmg.

Edit: Gotta remember, a Bunker guardian is slow, hits like a wet noodle and requires the assistance of teammates to survive which forces unfavorable numbers on their side in other areas of the map.

That’s the problem, it’s competing against a FAR superior trait(Resolution). I used to run Intel/rage but then I realized the double chill seemed to work better. Also, what’s rough about Radiance is that none of the GM’s revolve around power specs so you’re kind of stuck with Amplified Wrath regardless of what you run with.

Not to break-off from the build discussion too much, it does make more sense to have it in Zeal since all the minors revolve around symbols. @Sublime, I use Hydro/Rage on my hammer and it works amazingly. I stated this earlier and I still believe it makes little-to-no sense to replace chill with slow(especially when moved to virtues and it doesn’t affect movement speed).

Edit: Might change to Radiance if Zeal doesn’t work out. SA only works with Hammer so we’ll see.

Normally I would but the only real sustain you gain with Virtues is the condi-clear. I already run Generosity/Purity on my staff which will be going to the bow so my condition clear is still going to be fine.

Hopefully i’ll be able to test it soon. The biggest reason I went with Zeal is because of the constant symbol output from Hammer.

Edit: I still think the symbol traits from Honor need to be moved to the master-tier in Zeal. Symbol line and all

Good find bossman.

Again Zinkz, not saying Celestial didn’t push them over just the main problem was the skills/traits involved with the top 3.

Warrior: Having amazing sustain, burst heals, mobility and decent damage output while clearing the most conditions in the game.

Ele: Amazing sustain, decent dmg output while also having significant condition clearing(not as good as Warriors.

Engie: Again, solid sustain, mobility, unavoidable strong skills(Slick shoes, rifle kb, IP) and solid dmg.

Disagree, Cele accentuates the problem but isn’t the main issue at hand. It’s the professions who can use them efficiently.

The gameplay wasn’t bad at all. It’s interesting since you probably won’t ever see Hunters Ward being used. The fight could have easily went the Guardian’s way if the use of Deflecting Shot was utilized properly(Reflecting Pin-down). I will say there is a loss of sustain when using LB in comparison to Sc/Focus.

As stated many times above, meditations will probably be the go-to skills for the meta until more testing can be done. As far as I can see, the LB isn’t as strong as I originally thought when utilized against a competent opponent. It’s good, just not as insane as I thought it would be which is how it should be.

Sakrasta.6538:

I noticed, that the virtues had a really low cooldown, they were at around 15/30/45 which is half of the normal cooldown.

He was specced into virtues so it should have been lowered but not by that much. Good catch.

I don’t think that Shield of Courage actually blocks but rather just destroys, maybe i’m missing something. Also the potential strafing of the LB auto is worrisome as well. I don’t think the new elite will replace RF, it’s too niche. Also, the remark of nerfing the immobilization was surprising to hear.

One thing that caught my eye and I hope this isn’t going to be an issue but I saw a lot of “obstructed” notifications when Grouch was using Long Bow. I was hoping this wouldn’t be a huge issue since Scepter has this problem already.

Vizardlorde.8243:

Arken.3725:

KrisHQ.4719:

How about no one has it? Or just grant all classes 25% increased movement speed permanently. I do agree that it does not make sense for guardians to not have it, but imo it does not even make sense for any class to have it in the first place. Makes swiftness much less impactful, a boon that is already spammable to ridiculous extends.

It’s often overlooked but having permanent (or near permanent) swiftness is incredible in this game. Only a few professions can pull this off (engie/war/thief) and 2/3 of those are on top of the food chain in terms of sustain/dmg/mobility and some CC(mostly engie on CC). I’ve been stating this all along, there needs to be weaknesses and you shouldn’t have it all. The two I just stated certainly do.

almost every single profession can achieve permanent swiftness without the help of runes, some just happen to have it available in the meta build. Necro traited Wh+ spectral walk, ele lightning blasting, Guard traited shouts + staff, Ranger traited shouts + WH, Mesmers actually need runes of the centaur to get perma switness.

This was exactly what I was trying to get across, thank you Vizard. This should be considered for all aspects of this game. How easy is it to achieve said boon? do you have to stand in a circle for a period of time? Is it instant? Does it have a cast time? I think all of these need to be looked at when balance is considered.

Edit: Sometimes it doesn’t feel like this is the case and boons/conditions are just being thrown around.

Darknicrofia.2604:

if you’re getting rid of a meditation, it can’t be smite condition, its just too much damage/healing with 16 secs cooldown.

If you can properly combo it, the amount of dmg you’ll do WITH Light’s Judgement will far surpass that of smite condition.

Also, for the master tier in DH, I wasn’t sure which one of those I wanted so it’ll all depend on a few factors. Will Shield of Courage block all attacks or just projectiles? If just projectiles, then Bulwark will be thrown on the backburner.

KrisHQ.4719:

How about no one has it? Or just grant all classes 25% increased movement speed permanently. I do agree that it does not make sense for guardians to not have it, but imo it does not even make sense for any class to have it in the first place. Makes swiftness much less impactful, a boon that is already spammable to ridiculous extends.

It’s often overlooked but having permanent (or near permanent) swiftness is incredible in this game. Only a few professions can pull this off (engie/war/thief) and 2/3 of those are on top of the food chain in terms of sustain/dmg/mobility and some CC(mostly engie on CC). I’ve been stating this all along, there needs to be weaknesses and you shouldn’t have it all. The two I just stated certainly do.

@ Jiyu.8310, I like you…haha awesome suggestions but as stated above, i’d rather not turn Guardians into the next OP profession.

This will be THE Guardian version of Hambow, mark my words.

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgIDqAGcBrw~

Weapons:
Hammer
Bow

Utilities:
Shelter
Lights Judgement
Judge’s Intervention
Contemplation of Purity
Renewed Focus

Zerker Amulet w/ Pack Runes

In fact, most people probably didn’t even realize Guardian had a cripple all along (Tome of Wrath #2). I still think theme’s are important to distinguish between professions. However, it shouldn’t severely limit them in areas that make no sense(Primarily melee profession having terrible mobility).

Love me some WOW!

The whole concept of professional themes is pretty much gone with the introduction of cripple being afforded to the guardian to which it was never to be given. I personally think that’s fine. Sorry, responding from phone so excuse grammar.

That’s fair. I was just never a fan of traits that discourage the use of a class mechanic.

I see your point but don’t you think that should maybe be baked into the virtue and not tied to a trait?

The burst was significant but I mainly used it to keep up with my enemy for the brief moment. Slow doesn’t affect movement speed plus it’s competing with a superior supportive trait(Absolute resolution). I know i’m beating a dead horse it’s just very weird to have a primarily melee profession not have mobility.

Still an idea to help with mobility would be to give Wings of Resolve the passive 25% movement.

Saiyan.1704:

Artaz.3819:

Just a little correction:

Vargamonth.2047:

So is the adept 10% damage multiplier against crippled foes. We can definitely always benefit from it in PvE, where the condition could be applied by other players, but the trait only makes sense as a bow/trap related trait since those are our only reliable cripple sources.

Superior Sigil of Incapacitation

LB autoattack will also cripple both targets if it bounces (more than one target is hit).

I still need to see real time/real opponent reaction to projectile speed of arrows to target before any real commentary can be made.

I’m sure it’ll be no different than a Warrior’s arrow projectiles on his bow. It’s very much dodgeable at 600 range but unlike a warriors specific, high cd skills, no one is going to trouble themselves with dodging an autoattack cripple compared to other skills.

Our “kill shot” arrow will be obvious, especially at 1200 range. But not in a game breaking way, it’ll still be useful.

Just to reiterate on a post before about a cd increase on Trueshot. After comparing it to Arcing Arrow, it would be significantly weaker with a similar cd. Arcing has a higher coefficient, used while mobile, massive aoe and a blast finisher. I retract my statement about the need for a cd increase.

I see what you mean Xaylin but originally, Anet specified that Guardian’s were never really supposed to get soft-cc and here we are. The switching up stances on a professions “theme” to allow them to adapt is what’s been going on. What’s to stop us from getting mobility?

Edit: Also, having that extra cripple on a long cd(shield 4) really wouldn’t remedy the problem. Also, with the removal of Glacial heart, soft-cc has been reduced significantly.

I wanted to categorize both Defender’s Dogma and Purity of Body to be incredibly niche and discourages you from utilizing the active portion of your virtue’s.

Edit: Zealous scepter also falls into this category of discouraging the use of virtue’s…why?

I’m not a huge fan of having it attached to Unscathed Contender. With how scarce Aegis is ever up, it would be incredibly difficult to maintain. The whole concept of being “first in, last out” only makes sense if your sustain while IN combat is significant. It’s not, especially when in comparison to the top 3(Engie,Ele,War).

That is it, yes the sigils are a bit off but everything else is ok

Just going to add another one to the fray to alleviate the mood for our Dragonhunter brethren.

Greek.4396:

I like this Arken Person. : 3

Very kind. I was originally thinking more on True Shot and how I originally thought about a CD increase but now as I compare it to say Arcing Arrow, I don’t think it’s a good idea, especially if the cd’s are the same. I’m sort of leaning back at keeping it at 4 seconds due to the lack of mobility/strong finisher and AoE.

Black Box.9312:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Aeolus.3615:

wow – inferior mechanics: Chill, Fear, Poison, DS….

/facepalm.

No irony here. The game has a group of mechanics that are dominant in the game, and a group of mechanics that aren’t.

Almost all the dominant mechanics are on the guardian. The necro is stuck with all the none dominant game mechanics, with a very strong focus on conditions and control skills.

Yes, because control and conditions are TOTALLY useless.

There’s more to this game than taking advantage of braindead PvE mobs, you know.

This is sort of a representation of how symbols work. It’s also made me rethink about going down Zeal once the patch goes live due to how incredibly difficult it is to keep anyone inside of one. Not to mention the removal of Glacial heart which will severely hinder the Guardians ability to keep up(Since slow doesn’t affect movement speed).

It’s rather interesting because if that was the case(not having both) then I think other professions need to be looked at. I’ve been saying it for every profession, you shouldn’t be able to have everything(Looking at you Engie/War/Ele)

I found it. Episode 15 here http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/c/4456907 starts at about 41:15 when they talk about mobility. The main point for the argument against mobility was amazing sustain which to me, even as a medi-guard, doesn’t compare with a Warrior, Ele and Engineer who DO have amazing sustain and mobility.

You know, i’d consider giving up Renewed Focus for the new signet if it gave 25% movement speed. Another suggestion that was brought up a while ago was the passive on the new Wings of Resolve give 25% movement speed but if you pop it, you lose it.

Edit: So while most issue’s were addressed, a lot of us would love something like this.

Mobility would have been nice (I keep saying it lol). Surprised to see so many different versions of Dogged March being thrown around. There was a competition between Guards/Necro’s at one point for who was actually the slowest.

SA wouldn’t be such a bad choice in PvP if the symbol traits were put into Zeal. Just sayin’….

Lights Judgement, when utilized properly will be very powerful dude. I will give you that meditations will still be the mainstay of dps builds but I can still see some taking 1 trap.

I’ll say it again that I wish we had better mobility, the new Wings of Resolve doesn’t really do it. We never had an issue getting to our opponents but rather keeping them there.

zinkz.7045:

Laraley.7695:

zinkz.7045:

Arken.3725:

Elixir C(superior version to Contemplation of Purity)

LOL, you think a skill with a 20 sec shorter cooldown without a stunbreak meaning running with no stun break in any viable engy build, is better than a skill with a 20 sec longer cooldown, but a stunbreak, can I have some of what you are smoking?

And to be realistic, that is going to be an 8 sec difference in cooldowns, because Contemplation of Purity is actually usable in a viable build, you know the most faceroll zerker build there is with passive healing, passive burning, passive boons, passively applied chill on crit, a disgusting instant teleport, more disgusting instant skills and so on.

Threads like these with people who have no objectivity are a prime example of why the devs should take no notice of the forums.

There is a difference between what people choose and have access to. I could play s/d fresh air without Arcane shield and complain about not having any defensive skills.

Which is irrelevant to what I wrote and quoted, he claimed it is superior to Contemplation of Purity, it isn’t, which is why no one uses it, it is a waste of space.

I meant in terms of it’s cd. It’s like when Engineer’s complain about not having condi-clear when it’s right there. I still find it to be superior since it’s on such a low cd but that’s just me. The only reason why you believe the opposite is because there’s no other option for the Guard to take and yet here’s an option for an Engineer to take…

Edit: Again, cherry picking at its finest.

Ragnarox, we got some awesome stuff. I disagree completely. Now granted, we need to see what the other professions get but so far i’m incredibly happy.

The #5? I can see that. I see it more as a form of CC than damage anyway(even though the spike is awesome).

Exedore.6320:

Arken.3725:

Just my opinion, only a few things need to be adjusted and it would help significantly.

1. Increase gearshield CD to 30 sec
2. 1/2 to 3/4 cast time to rifle KB
3. Icon to show when the next attack inflicts burning from IP so it can be avoided. And allow it to avoided on the next attack regardless if you hit or miss
4. Reduce slick shoe kd from 3 to 2

1. Too long. Gear shield is about the only defense engineers have. 25 sec maybe, but 30 sec is too high.
2. No. Overcharged shot balances itself by also disabling the engineer. Most rifle skills are only powerful at close range, so the follow-up typically isn’t high damage. Being instant also allows it to be used for defense. If the engineer is avoiding the knockback or stun-breaking it, then they used two skills – can’t you use one (a stun break) to counter it?
3. No. Passive bonus damage just needs to go away as much as possible. Waiting for the trait re-work and official details on burning changes to comment further. In the interim, just lower the duration to 2 seconds per proc.
4. The knockdown is 2 seconds. The puddle duration and skill duration are both 3 seconds. Most people are knocked down multiple by times by successive puddles, not the same puddle. You’d probably want to lower the skill duration.

I’m going to explain why your argument make no sense.

1. The only defensive mechanic? How about Elixir S, Nade spamming at your feet(considered defensive against melee), Box of Nails, Elixir C(superior version to Contemplation of Purity) Rifle KB can also be utilized defensively. So no, it’s NOT the only defensive mechanic Engineer’s have. Nice way to cherry pick.

2. Overcharged shot isn’t balanced by the self-cc. If it didn’t remove all manner of Movement impairing effects then you’d have an argument but it does. Not to mention any form of Instant-CC is way too strong.

3. Arguing for passive bonuses again further weakens your argument. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve avoided nades, bombs and other hard-hitting skills only to be taken down by some BS burn proc. Giving it a way to properly be avoided(like all other procs should be) is the way to go.

Again, you brought up no real argument aside from your subjectivity.

I think overall, the DH specialization is pretty awesome. The LB kit is amazing, the traits themselves are amazing. The traps could use some work with Light’s Judgement being stupidly strong.

This is why a discussion with people like Exedore is completely useless. People like the poster above completely ignore any and all changes that are suggested and more than likely agreed upon by most players.

Obvious engie wanting to stay on top.

Edit: when you dismiss all changes suggested, your arguing power tends to plummet.

BlackBeard.2873:

Arken.3725:

Just my opinion, only a few things need to be adjusted and it would help significantly.

1. Increase gearshield CD to 30 sec
2. 1/2 to 3/4 cast time to rifle KB
3. Icon to show when the next attack inflicts burning from IP so it can be avoided. And allow it to avoided on the next attack regardless if you hit or miss
4. Reduce slick shoe kd from 3 to 2

Great suggestions. I would also like to see healing turret have a 0.75s cast time so that it is possible to interrupt. The power of this heal is a big reason why engies are so stong, and giving it SOME kind of drawback would be a great thing.

And yet I can’t seem to figure out a decent balance for ele’s..bah.

Just my opinion, only a few things need to be adjusted and it would help significantly.

1. Increase gearshield CD to 30 sec
2. 1/2 to 3/4 cast time to rifle KB
3. Icon to show when the next attack inflicts burning from IP so it can be avoided. And allow it to avoided on the next attack regardless if you hit or miss
4. Reduce slick shoe kd from 3 to 2