You just prove the point. Warriors have tons of defensive capabilities but still get max health/armor where the necro only gets health. Does DS truly warrant the light to heavy armor discrepancy on top of immunities, mobility, regen, and high damage?
Don’t get me wrong if they equalized the base health values and made all armor classes available to each class it would upset current balance. The problem is that current balance isn’t great at all and it’s continually trying to band-aid balance the stat discrepancies inherent from the base values. If we can set the base values as equal then we open up a huge variety of builds for all classes and can truly balance the classes based on survivability, dmg, mobility, etkittenil then classes will be pidgeonholed into going up certain trait lines and getting certain gear just to get enough vitality/toughness to survive against moderate DPS builds. Don’t even get me started on the trait line stat issues either! It’s just plain bad design.
The problem would then become – EVERYONE would use Heavy armor just for the defensive boost alone. Now a way to counter that COULD be ahve some sort of movement speed connected to the armor.
So wearing all light armor would mean that you would be defensively weaker but you would also have a movement speed increase. Base movement nothing that can be stacked or anything and it would only be say 5-10%
Taking HEAVY armor though, you would be tougher thanks to the defense that the armor comes with but that would mean your movement speed would be reduced to counter the fact that you are wearing heavy armor again say 5-10%
This kind of thing as a starting basis could actually work, give players the OPTION to use any of the armor BUT at a cost.
Light = Low defense, high mobility
Medium = Medium defense, No change to mobility
Heavy = High defense, Low mobility
Spec better? Not sure what else to tell you.
All classes can be “perma ccd to death” necro isn’t special in this regard. 40k hp makes it way easier to survive.
Death shroud should get a 50% reduction in hp or have a 1 min cool down.
Play Necromancer before you try saying that it needs work.
“spec better” for what? 30point trait for THREE seconds of stability on a 10 second cool down. Amazing
Lets not forget the 50second cool down1 1/4second stability as well…
Sorry but you are totally clueless about the class. You have no idea about it, so rather than trying to make the class dead. Go play it and then THINK about the what nerfs you would want added to a class that relies on DeathShroud as pretty much its ONLY form of defense…
1minute cool down? Yeah i would take that – if we were given DEFENSIVE options to counter that such aas passive regen, stealth, Invuls and everyhting else every other class gets.
Thief low hp but can heal in stealth and nearly perma blind, guardian has good healing good blinds and aegis, Ele could either use more hp or better mitigation skills but changing base health across the board is not a good idea.
This. I would prefer they got a tad more health, this way Ele wouldn’t be forced into Vit stats on gear/accessories just to counter the huge difference in health considering they arent going to be easily able to kill someone with burst.
Thief makes mistake/countered = Stealth and recover
Ele makes mistake/countered = Dead.
…so why should one condition class be punished and the others ignored?
Because the necro as a “condition class” can approach 40k ups with one key press.
So you want depite the fact they have already had there conditions nerfed into the ground, you want the class to be nerfed even more for the sake of ONE skill. A skill you will KNOW they have a skill that they will likely try and burst from the start…
You thought about maybe trying to counter that rather than just trying to get the class nerfed so much that no one plays them anymore…
I think all classes should have the same base health and armor choices. There is no logical reason that I can find that justifies the current base armor/health values. Melee clearly isn’t the reason for heavy armor as all classes have melee. Mobility isn’t the reason either as warrior is highly mobile. The only reason certain classes have certain armor is purely based on aesthetics, the health justification is just a big mystery. Once we get all classes on an even playing field we can actually start getting some balance in the game. At the very least there is ZERO reason that justifies having some classes start with 291(armor) stat points and essentially 757 more stat points(vitality).
If anyone wants to try and make a case for why the current base health/armor values are where they are then by all means. However, beware that I can almost guarantee there will be another class/spec that will call it into question.
Because it would break the game. I do think that some need to be adjusted but some classes have WAY more defense than others built into the classes – Warriors for example – Immunities, mobility, Passive Regen. Now if a Necromancer was brought down to say Thief level – with the fact they have NO defense, yeah they wouldn’t stand a chance in ANY fight….
So you play a warrior or necro? Don’t lie.
Warrior and especially necro are easymode and extremely forgiving to play. Nerfs are needed to bring them in line with ALL other classes.
You clearly dont play Necromancer. It is FAR from easy mode. Saying the class needs to be nerfeed when in fact they are WEAKER than when people thought they were fine is just crazy. They have received plenty of nerfs already thanks they dont need any more.
They have NO access to – Blocks, invul, Immunities, Stealth, Vigor and are the EASIEST class to escape in a fight. They HAVE to have high health as they have NO defense outside a crappy 60second cool down Protection and DeathShroud the one Mechanic that gets WORSE the more it is focused. Lets not forget the insanely limited access to Stability that EVERYONE knows and uses to full affect.
Warriors. Yeah they need to be toned down, but to say Necromancer is to overpowered and “easy mode” that is just simply WRONG. Sure Conditionmancer is rather easy at times – just like ALL condition builds so why should one condition class be punished and the others ignored?
high base health means nothing in this game. The important defensive things are toughness/armor, block, invulnarable,self healing, dodge and condition removel . You need only a little health to survive a burst that catches you in a bad situation.
The only profession that actually has use for an high health pool are necromencer and only because lf regeneration is % of your health.
And the fact that they have no other defense. No blocks, Invuls, Stealth, Immunities, very low dodges due to no access to Vigor, decent Condition Removal but that should be the way seeing as they ARE meant to be the condition class – even if every other class can do conditions just as well or better in most cases.
I would also propose a reduction to Necromancer with its gradual buffs and streamlining of the mechanics over the last year a heavily “zerked” Necro still has over 21k hp on top of death shroud and high cc.
No. Unlike other classes Necromancer has ONE thing for defense – Death Shroud, its skills are easily telegraphed and dodged. When the odds go against them 1 Vs X then it becomes even worse. Unlike classes that heave Stealth, insane burst, immunities, clones, and other things for defense. Necromancer get a crappy mechanic that gets worse the more they are focused and a 6second Protection on a 60second cool down…
Unless Necromancer are given PROPER defensive options the health they have is just fine. The lack movement, escape and are pretty much in a fight to the death, EVERY class can escape a Necromancer should things go south and thats how they were made to be. Even that isnt really the class when you consider Stealth classes and Hammer Warriors.
Yeah, make our already telegraphed weapon sets more telegraphed. That’ll really help eles get the jump on people and leave bottom tier.
Everyone knows all the skills anyway, i see no problem in them making it more visually appealing. I mean if the ONLY reason you win a fight is because they didn’t know anything about Attunements then you won against a bad player.
The MOMENT you use a skill they know what attunement you are in.
What does this have to do with profession balance?
Nothing. But they removed the suggestion forum. So rather it be placed in Ele forum and ignored by all the devs (which it would be) i placed it here so that maybe, just maybe they will actually read it…
I really think that Elementalists need to have their Attunement appearances to be improved, i mean all they get is a VERY lazy ring around the hands – that must have taken all of 5minutes to create and design.
Personally i think they should get PROPER attunement appearances, like some sort of Aura that is more easily visible and more visually appealing.
Increase the lowest 3 by 2k, decrease the highest 2 by 2k and it would be fine.
The problem with that is – Thief have low damage but insane burst potential as well as stealth. Now the way Ele were they deserved the low health but after having so many nerfs i feel they are the only “low” health class that needs it to be buffed to counter all the nerfs they have received
On the most part it is balanced – several classes though need to be adjusted, either up or down.
Ele while they used to be insane have been nerfed so much and what have they gotten for that? They should have had there health and toughness increased a tad.
Warrior needs to be reduced in my opinion – they can have SO much. Mobility, Regen, Damage, Immunity…
Mesmer could be reduced a tad as well with all the stealth, illusions, clones and everything they have.
The rest i think are decently balanced for what they offer. Thief, Ranger, Necromancer, Guardian, Engineer are all balanced considering what else they offer.
Even 20% is over budget. Should be 10%.
Just compare to the other foods:
Rare Veggie Pizza: +40% cond. duration, +70 cond. damage
vs
Chocolate Omnomberry Cake: +15% chill duration, +70 power
vs
Bowl of Fire Meat Chili: +15% buring duration, +70 precisionHrm, which should I use, +15% to a single specific condition or +40% to all of them? You have to delusionally biased to not see the +/- 40% foods are grossly out of line.
As for the whole “but but but but we need these to be viable!” crap, no one uses conditions in spvp because there’s no +40% food right?
what they should do is change it down to 10% duration. This way you can have 10% to all Condition or take another food and have 15% for specific condition…
This isn’t true not all roamers run condition builds. Mesmers don’t condi burst people unless you are willing to fight them.
I only came across a 5 man P/D thief crew 1 time ever [Rage] on Maguuma. It is always mixed and matched. In the sanctum dueling sure there is usually alot of condi builds but even then it is about half and half.
You are far more likely to run across a 5 man mixed power group or full power group then you will a 5 man full condi group. I have alot of hours roaming and only seen this 1 time.
So your only option is to run – what does that say?
Pretty much all the roamers i see are Condition builds or Warriors….What does that say about the “balance” this game has?
Rock solid post. Bravo +1
And it’s laughable how comparisons are being made between +40% condition duration and the, “imagine +40% crit chance or damage” …. wow, talk about comparing apples to oranges!
It’s a ludicrous comparison that requires a person to drop all the context of the difference between damage types, and their actual form of application and resulting damage over time. The +/- food is fine, and far-far from overpowered.
Silly me, the fact that pretty much all roamers run condition builds shows nothing wrong with them what so ever, personally i think all these sort of Food should be removed from WvW they should be left to PvE andf thats it. Other types of food that give X stat and and such are fine its the 10% Crit Damage and 40% Condition duration ones that are the problem
Conditions ARE the dominant build in WvW for anything other than Zergings and in that situation any build will do – its the numbers that win in the end anyway.
Look at the classes that can EASILY burst conditions onto people with a few button presses. Classes like Thief, Engineer, Mesmer, Necromancer have far to much access to conditions and far to much defense. Conditions DO need work, only those that run condition builds will say otherwise.
I mean condition builds would be fine, IF they weren’t so quick to kill people. They should be SLOWER to kill things rather than easily burst them dead without being able to do anything about it.
(edited by ArmageddonAsh.6430)
Omg guys… this issnt about condi being OP or not..
It is Overpowered, that should be enough for the condition food to be looked at. Condition builds are strong enough without the +40% food, let alone when they have it. The problem is, Anet WANTS the game to be this total mess of conditions optherwise – it would have been fixed a long time ago.
And you have what, 5% crit chance by default?
I thought it was 4%
I don’t get this 40% condition food hate, direct damage gets 50% crit damage on default.
It is because Conditions are strong enough as it is, adding this makes it even worse.
This sort of food should simply be removed from the game, it makes already broken builds even more broken. I do know this won’t happen because Anet have refused to fix the Condition Meta thus far so its fair to say they want the game to be Condition Wars 2: Return of The Condition.
Conditions need the max duration reduce to at most 50%, remove all traits that add more duration as well.
Yeah i have been using Inscription today, it is quite good. Something i dont like – Regen, i can get 30+ seconds of it but i think it would be better if it stacked in intensity rather than duration.
I disagree, because the way it is people will HAVE to use other combos. 45% duration and it still only being 4 seconds is VERY poor. It should be at least 5-7seconds.
[Elite] Signet of Elements (Cooldown: 50 seconds)
Passive: Reduce your attunement recharge rate by 2 seconds
Active: Recharge all your attunementsThis elite would:
1) Finally make the arcana trait line a choice, not a must-have.
2) (Combined with lyssa): Give condition cleanse without heavily speccing into water/arcana
3) Make signet builds viable
Seems very weak to me. I think adding a few things to it could improve it. For me i would:
Passive:
1) Reduce Attunement cool down by 50%
Active:
1) Remove Attunement cool down for X number of seconds (say 5 seconds?)
2) Attunement bonuses last 10 seconds
Make it a Glyph so Glyph reduction and Inscription traits both work on it.
- Elemental Glyph: Sure, the resultant pet can be kinda useful, but … It’s. A. PET.
Frankly, we all know how hobbled Pet AI is in this game. Hell, the only reason that
Phantasms work worth a darn is because their entire attack sequence is locked to
a single target.
The problem i have with it, it doesnt do THAT much when you consider it is a Elite they are rather Meh. I think it would be better if it was a Transformation that turned you into a big Elemental, though in the way that Lich and Plague Form works and NOT how Tornado works.
- Tornado: Why is it, that an Ele’s “Transform Elite” is bewilderingly weak vs.enemy
attacks? I mean seriously: Devs, you’re the same folk who made freaking Plague
and Lich for Necros (both of which can be hella useful) , but you couldn’t manage
to help Eles re: Transformations? Honestly, this hurts a guy’s feelings a bit.
I totally agree, for Plague i can just pop say Spectral Armor (7seconds Protection) and jump into Plague and it works really well and is still very strong, Tornado though why doesnt it get the same buffs that Plague gets? Plagues gets – Power, Toughness, Vit i would VERY happily have the Precision removed from Tornado and that turned into Power, Toughness and Vit.
Currently, it is just nothing more than a giant bullseye. Tornado also needs to have a passive effect – Plague gets Poison i think that Tornado needs something.
It’s exactly why I am hoping that with the announced Sigil changes that if a weapon is unequipped that gave the Sigil stack that the buff is then removed. (or they could add a 2-minute time limit to the stack unless it is refreshed)
This would be nothing but a nerf to the classes have only have 1 weapon set…
Everyone else has 2-4 weapons
I only have 45% Boon Duration and don’t take Quick Glyphs as i would lose Zephyr’s Boon. I am guessing 75% duration would be taking 3 × 2 different sigils that grant boon duration?
Heard that will be getting nerfed/changed with the March update though.
P.S: DO NOT buy traveler….they are nerfing bonus for different runes so for now opt for cheap runes if you can.
I pretty much use them for The speed buff so i dont mind. I ran a 0/10/0/30/30 build though mine was more survival, 15k health you will be dead in seconds against any thief. I have actually switched to 0/200/20/30 taking Inscription so i get double the effect and seeing as i mostly heal in Water that means nearly 30seconds of regen combined with the heal for going into water and the regen i get as well its quite good.
Stats wise i have gone with P/T/V armor with Travelers runes, i sit at 45% Boon Duration as well which isnt the best you can get but its solid. Accessories wise its a mix:
Back: Vit/Healing/Condition damage with Condi/Power/Vit gem
Earrings: Power/Toughness/Vit with Healing/Power/Toughness gems
Amulet: Power/Vit/Crit Damage with Power/Crit Damage Vit Gem
Rings: Power/Vit/Condition Damage with Condition Damage/Power/Vit Gem
Weapons: Precision/Vit/Healing Power with Sigil of Blood and Leeching
I havent played my Ele in a while so its just about getting back into using it really, though its clear that Ele needs some buffs to counter all the nerfs they were given. I stopped playing just before D/D was nerfed into the ground about 5-6months ago and switched to other classes.
Not really considering The Glyph Heal (In Earth) and Elemental Attunement is like 10 seconds of Protection. The heal has a 25second cool down and elemental Attunement has a 10second cool down which starts when you leave it which wouldnt be enough time for the Glyph to be off cool down.
Though, combined with Inscription you would get 7 1/4seconds from swapping to Earth. 4 1/4 seconds from the Glyph and 4 1/4 seconds from Inscription which would add up to 15 3/4seconds of Protection which isnt bad at all.
The Regen is even better 7 1/4seconds from switching to water and 29seconds total from the Glyph and the Inscription is nice
I am running a D/D build i was running 0/10/0/30/30 but thinking about swapping it to 0/20/0/20/30 what do you guys think about Clensing Waters (Water XI) Vs Inscription (Air VIII)?
if i remember right, Clensing Waters is getting a 5second internal cool down which isnt great but still not a huge nerf. I would get 27 seconds of Regen if i took Inscription and healed in Water (which i mostly do anyway) It is a shame that for Regen it doesnt become Regen 2 stacks for 14 1/2seconds rather than how it works now as that is quite a long time and with the fact that conditions are everywhere would i have it for its full duration or would it be corrupted or stolen
I currently have (with 0/20/0/20/30):
1,623 Power 2,604Attack Power
1, 454 Precision 30% Crit Chance (Signet of Fire)
1,280 Toughness 2,200Armor
1,734 Vitality 20,314 Health (in WvW – No blood lust)
245 Condition Damage, 10% Duration
45% Boon duration
586 Healing Power
34% Crit Damage
Inscription gives me:
10% Crit Damage
100 Precision
Electric Discharge
Inscription
Clensing Waters gives me:
100 Healing
100 Vit
Bountiful Power
Clensing Waters
Is it just me or does the Protection gained from this need a big buff in duration? I am sitting at 45% Boon duration Might – 29seconds, Regen 14 1/2 second, Swiftness 14 1/2seconds and Protection…. 4 1/4seconds Now i am not expecting or demanding that it be up there with Might in duration but really 45% Boon duration and i get 4 1/4seconds…
To me, it just seems very lacklustre in its duration.
I have Final Rest, sure more of a Necro theme staff but i think its great skin.
what build? Could at least post a link or video to it or something…
Tips on survival – Don’t Die.
the problem is that every other class has the same abilities for for mobility, every one has swifteness every one has ground covering skill people who arent using them and still want to be moble need to stop kittening
Say that to Necromancer, they dont have “ground cover skills”…
Also, our elites aren’t all that bad. FGS has some incredible damage AND mobility, and Tornado has great uses either breaking up groups, whirl-finishing all kinds of files, super-charging meteor shower, throwing people off ledges, or getting an almost guaranteed decap on any node but mid of Foefire.
The problem is they are too situational. Tornado also sucks in every situation you die in SECONDS in any situation you might want to use it as it puts a HUGE mark on you to be focused down as you have zero defence.
FGS again, situational. mostly used for mobility and Elemental is just simply too weak to even be considered an elite.
We already have an elemental and we already have a transformation. What we need is a “normal” elite, like a signet, or an arcane.
The Elemental is rather weak (imo) to even be considered an Elite. Tornado doesn’t again really offer that much outside of specific situations.
Oh please no. You know what would be awesome? An actual elite spell that WE cast. Not something a pet does. Or another weapon that replaces our 20 spells. Or something that transforms the most squishy class into a defenseless whirlwind. An actual spell. That would be awesome.
well this elite would be a spell WE cast and it would transform US into a big cool looking elemental.
So i was on my Necromancer last night and jumped into Lich form, and i got to thinking how cool it would be if we had an Elite that transformed us into a big Elemental based on the attunement we were in.
Each one would buff different stats and of course we would have different roles in each one.
Fire would be Zerker like, high damage, high crit damage
Water would be Support like Healing, boons and such
Air would be high Precision and CC ability
Earth would be High toughness and Armour with plenty of Bleeding and some CC
I mean we already have the skins, they would need to be increased in size but that wouldn’t be to hard and then just need to make skills for them which would of course take time.
That’s a standard combo. It is nothing new.
I believe it is just S/TPvP and yes i think it counts for ALL forms of regeneration gained.
I’ve already been told not to bring up the IP trait that Engineers have, but that logic doesn’t work; if Dhuumfire isn’t skillful, then surely Incendiary Powder isn’t either. They are identical…
With the berserker nerf incoming too, it’s not like before where I could feel at least somewhat safe falling back onto my power specs if the condition specs got nerfed.
I think its due to the perception that Necromancer is the best condition class because they can burst conditions with Signet of Spite. That fact i dont think should be counted when comparing these 2 traits.
IP is lower in the trait line has a longer duration even when:
Necromancer + 30% Duration: S/TPvP = 2 1/2seconds WvW = 3 3/4seconds
Engineer + 20% duration: S/TPvP = 4seconds WvW = 3 3/4seconds
Its 3rd March update that is changing quite a few things.
This would be a UTILITY and not a heal, i knew i knew that name from somewhere and totally forgot that it was a name of a heal. So yeah the heal would stay the same. This would then be given a different name but have same affects and be a UTILITY and not a replacement Heal or anything.
The patch is meant to be 3rd March. All they have to do: Make Weapon Swap Sigils have 10 second cool down.
Horrible idea. You don’t want to punish people for playing. You want to give an incentive to get more people to play. In other words, there needs to be better buffs for outmanned.
ANET would never go for your idea.
Well they clearly aren’t doing enough to try and get people to play when you have like 10 people against 50+ groups that can split up and take the WHOLE map in like 10 minutes…
Waiting for all the warriors to come in and say they aren’t Overpowered they dont have ridiculous mobility/landspeed and that Healing Signet is hugely Underpowered…
No one would ever use this, still. Why use this over cantrips, frost bow, arcane stuff?
I would and i dont use Frost Bow or any of the Arcane stuff.
For those that have the keybindings exactly the same, maybe it is no problem for those of us that have them different and knowing some of them are being wasted and need to be changed due to the character they are playing it is very annoying.
“unnecessary work” – Surely they can take a week out from nerfing all the classes that beat their precious Warrior in PvP and WvW and releasing Terrible, hated LS content to do this ONE change wouldn’t be that bad.
Razer Naga doesn’t have multiple profiles?
Even my kinda cheap CM Storm Inferno have at least 4 profiles, I think it had more but I only use 4.But I agree, key bind by character instead of account would be nice.
Yeah it does i think, that wouldn’t solve the fact that i like my keybindings very strange that also use the Keyboard for several F key functions which can’t be changed via the Naga profiles.
I am confused, I play 7 different characters and I have never had to change my set up-
I do have my F keys bound to my mouse but I only really use that for my ele.
I play Ele, Mesmer, Necromancer and Engineer they ALL have different keybindings. Ele and Engineer are the worst as you need to use all F special skills. Mesmer i use 2 at most and even that is rare as i dont play Shatter and Necromancer is 1 button.
Having to change them to the way i like them which is different for all of the characters i play each time i log into that character is VERY annoying. It is the most simple of things and i just don’t understand why they didn’t even implement it in this game.
I use a Naga 2012 mouse so i rarely need to touch the numbers/F buttons on my keyboard as i have it set up just how i like but having to redo that EVERY time i log into a different character is SO annoying.