Another issue is that a lot of skills were nerfed because of dhuumfire (bleed stacks removed etc.) when there was never a problem with those bleed stacks in the first place. Now that dhuumfire is going to be rammed into the ground, all those bleed stacks and other nerfs should be reverted as well. But this is not very likely to happen. This, in fact, is my major problem with the current balancing of GW2. Just look at the elementalist. It was nerfed so hard that it became practically extict in any competitive environment. The fact that even the developers decided to undo some of those nerfs in the next patch is proof enough of the situation.
I agree with the nerfs that Dhuumfire has already seen, in my opinion this counts as a nerf as well. That takes JUST Dhuumfire being nerfed 3 times since introduction and what about all the nerfs to all the other skills?
You can bet none of them will be removed either. This IS a nerf to Conditionmancers as they would be required to stay LONGER in a DS which removes all condition damage they can do, sure adds a fear, Immbo and Torment – the question is, will the damage of Dhuumfire be enough to counter the loss of damage from not using condition based attacks? Personally, i dont think it will.
The upcoming change is a really good one, with the 10 sec ICD and 10 sec ICD of DS, it gives DS a purpose for conditions other than blocking damage.
I can’t see condition Necros losing that much dps, they just need to pop in and out of DS and fire a lifeblast every time the DS cooldown is up.
Moving it into the soul tree wouldn’t be ideal. DS necros wouldn’t take it because there are much better traits to pick (and don’t take Dhumbfire anyway in spite), and condition necros wouldn’t want to spec that high in soul – while talents in spite give condition duration.
I wouldn’t take it in Spite but if it was moved to Soul Reaping Master i would i reckon. Currently it loses out to Close to Death for Power builds but moving it to Soul Reaping Master would give the option of going more defensive or losing a bit of defense and taking Dhuumfire for that extra damage.
I equip Plague if i know that i will be zerged while trying to get into a tower or keep. Better option than Lich imo.
I have said for a while – Just remove the Leap from Heatseeker.
That would remove any stealth access besides utilities from d/p and render the set pretty moot.
It would solve the HS+BP stealth stacking, give it counterplay similar to C&D, and be a needed buff to P/P as that is the weakest weapon set thieves have as it has no access to either evades, or steath. I do fear s/p might be nerfed if the BP doesn’t apply blind, but access to tactial strike should make up for it.
It could be countered a bit by slightly improved stats for Toughness and health. They shouldn’t have access to stealth on weapons in my opinion. It is fine having perma stealth outside combat but once you engage in combat your stealth should be more limited and used at the right time to set up burst or for defense.
From what i have read, it is getting changed and connected to Life Blast, with that change alone it should not be a grand master trait. Will still have a 10second cooldown and the fact that Condition builds LOSE more damage with just this change…
An interesting idea, I would reduce the cool down and make it inflict more stacks the lower your Life Force is.
100% – 75% – 1stack, 3 seconds
75%-50% – 2 stacks, 4 seconds
50%-25% – 3 Stacks, 4.5seconds
25%-0% – 4 stacks, 5seconds
reduce the cool down to 5seconds.
So we all know Dhuumfire is hated. Burning doesn’t even suit the class and all the nerfs that have come the Conditionmancer way due to this one trait is rather annoying. If you could change Dhuumfire to something else, what would you guys like to see it changed?
My idea is to keep the fact the trait is connected to Life Blast but change it to Torment and make it so that the FURTHER away you are the more stacks it gives, This way you have the choice stay close dealing better direct damage with lower Torment stacks or stay at range and deal lower direct damage but supplement that with Torment
Something like:
Wiltering Blast – Life Blast crit inflict Torment, further away from the target means more stacks. 0 – 600 Range: 3 Stacks, 5 seconds. 600+ Range: 6 Stacks, 5 seconds. 10second cool down
Then move it into Soul Reaping, I would say Master traitline as it would require the use of DeathShroud and Life Blast.
I have said for a while – Just remove the Leap from Heatseeker.
How about this:
Keep the fact the trait is connected to Life Blast but change it to Torment and make it so that the FURTHER away you are the more stacks it gives, This way you have the choice stay close dealing better direct damage or stay at range and deal decent direct damage but supplement that with Torment
Something like:
Wiltering Blast – Life Blast crit inflict Torment, further away from the target means more stacks. 0 – 600 Range: 3 Stacks, 5 seconds. 600+ Range: 6 Stacks, 5 seconds. 10second cool down
They are nerfing healing signet happy? You may stop the QQ now the skill will be nerfed. Sooner or later you must admit you are a terrible player if you cant outdps it.
It is barely a nerf, like 35hps is nothing and you can bet that the active will be buffed more than the passive was nerfed…
How about this:
Keep the fact the trait is connected to Life Blast but change it to Torment and make it so that the FURTHER away you are the more stacks it gives, This way you have the choice stay close dealing better direct damage or stay at range and deal decent direct damage but supplement that with Torment
Something like:
Wiltering Blast – Life Blast crit inflict Torment, further away from the target means more stacks. 0 – 600 Range: 3 Stacks, 5 seconds. 600+ Range: 6 Stacks, 5 seconds. 10second cool down
I’d support the Dhuumfire change more if it they moved it out of Spite.
With it now being connected with Life Blast, i think it would be better suited to be moved to Master tier Soul Reaping. It is no longer Grandmaster value, though i don’t think it ever was.
It’s a terrible change, won’t make anything better for anyone. Won’t change builds either won’t bring new ones out. Condition builds will still have to take it and have to adapt that they have been nerfed and Power builds still won’t take it because Close To Death is better.
Fixed it..
Yep. It just means they will be doing LESS damage than they were before so it is just another Nef to Necromancers with Minion Masters having damage reduced and the nerf to the explosion trait.
Then you get onto the Powermancers with the nerf to Crit Damage and i expect class specific nerfs to them as well.
Necromancer -
Strength:
Conditions – though every class seems to be able to do this.
Fear – Easily countered with Stability
Health – Plenty of health, countered by low defensive options
Weaknesses:
Crowd Control – So little access to Stability is a killer
Combat Movement – We are insanely slow
Attrition – For a “attrition” class, we lack quite a lot of it
Defensive skills – We have barely any defense. DeathShroud doesn’t count – Stealth, Invul, Immunity, Mobility they count.
Death Shroud – locking us out of heals, Utility and Elite for skills that need traits to be worth using.
Oh please, you are really going to pick a fight with a highly experienced warrior player?
1) Dogged march only affects movement impairing effects, engis and eles have this trait aswel. So your damage stays on
2) Berserker stance is only 8s in duration and 60s CD, you mean you can’t dodge/evade outlast a warrior for 8s? Ouch…
3) Run 40% condi food and some condi duration and you’ll still be able to chill the -98% movement impairing effect warriors for 10s. And chill is the most OP condi in the game, rendering the warrior absolutely useless.
4) I play engi as second main and he melts warriors with his condi spam. Don’t think I have ever lost from a warrior, so easy to dodge their skills and burn them down.
1) Oh yeah, only damaging conditions matter…If only Warrior wasn’t so mobile..Oh wait
2) Oh yeah, 8 seconds of immunity, how dreadful. Not as if they can’t attack during that time. oh yeah “dodging” i forget what that is like on a class with NO access to Vigor, blocks or anything else…
3) Right, so forced into running specific food to counter ONE trait….Yeah that is SO balanced.
4) I don’t see how, so much immunity, mobility and have everything. Then again Engineer are very strong as well.
Do you even know what you are saying? With some condi damage, 1 bleed ticks for 130dmg, in other words you need 3 bleeds to almost completely negate the warriors healing. Are you telling me your condi build can’t keep 3 bleeds on a warrior?
Condis are a warriors greatest weakness.
ps.: you need to hit in order to clean condis with cleansing ire, except on longbow. So dodge right and he’ll melt to your condis.
Now if only Warriors didnt have maybe Condition immunity and damage immunity…
Maybe even have access to things that reduce condition duration, Maybe dogged March?
That’s what people are complaining about (and Arenanet is ignoring).
I read that the Dev team all play Warrior as a main class…Something to think about.
Bias maybe?
Not wanting their own class to be balanced maybe?
It’s a terrible change, won’t make anything better for anyone. Won’t change builds either won’t bring new ones out. Condition builds will still take it and have to adapt that they have been nerfed and Power builds still won’t take it because Close To Death is better.
They seem to want Necromancer to play Condi you can bet plenty of Condi nerfs will be incoming to kill off all hope in the class.
The problem is: Dhuumfire Vs Close To Death
I dont think this change will make much difference. Condi builds will still take it as without it they are MUCH weaker but at the same time – will the lose of sustain and having to go into DeathShroud for 5+ seconds for Dhuumfire to proc be worth the lose of damage and conditions compared to not going into it at all.
Power builds will still take Close To Death, 700 damage (with 56 Condition damage) every 10 seconds is rather weak. Compare that to the 20% increased damage to all targets under 50% health – which will be better over the course of say a 30 second fight…
Hybrid builds, that would depend on the build and the player, if have good condition damage could take Dhuumfire but the lose of damage from Close To Death would still be noticeable
I would wait before buying anything with Crit Damage, due to the changes that are being made to it.
ye cause engis dont have fears and terror on top … necro should never gotten a burn at all.
They have plenty of confusion, knockbacks, stuns, great healing, immunity and such…
The problem is, they have our money. They don’t care now. I do wonder would we be in same situation had this been a Pay Monthly game…
The “balancing” has been awful from the start and i even said at release the game will die not because some amazing new game is released but because of Anet. i find it convenient what classes they play and what classes are the strongest…
3 stacks simply isnt enough, for a skill that has 40 second cool down 3 stacks is pathetic.
Tainted shackles is an up to 5 target AoE that also has a pretty incredibly ending effect, whereas most other torment application is just that: an application and nothing more.
I agree that we could use a more normal source of application than Tainted Shackles, but that is something that should be fixed outside of shackles.
The immbo is rather weak, it makes no sense to combine a condition that deals MORE damage to MOVING targets to a condition that STOPS them moving and it is easy to get out of its range.
It will be some VERY minor bug fix that no one cared about that will totally break something else.
None, the trait is made with idea that powermancer goes with traits full into power and defenses + uses power amulet so trait is balanced around having 0 condi dmg, anything above it makes it more powerful than it should be.
If it stays the same, then it will be terrible. Its like at base in the Mists, with 30% added duration it is 2 and 1/2 seconds dealing a pathetic 684damage for a Grandmaster trait…
Its duration needs to be increased and the damage improved if it becomes linked to just Life Blast
Though this update doesn’t affect my builds (I run carrion and LP quite often with it), I can see how this is an overall nerf to the burning duration.
By virtue of being in DS, on top of the 10 second recharge that comes built into the trait, there are additional recharge limits placed on the skill:
The longer you stay in DS, the longer it takes for the Dhuumfire to proc again. DS only enters into a cooldown once you leave it, so the actual recharge is going to be based on how long it takes you to drop from DS after a lifeblast + DS’s recharge time from there.
Second, once the cooldown is done, you still have to go through the whole chain of entering DS -> CC the enemy -> use life blast, which takes longer than one would expect. So overall, I’d say the true cooldown for dhuumfire is around 14 to 15 seconds. So much for reverting its duration.
You sure about that?
So it will only proc ONCE per a time you are in DeathShroud? If so, that is insanely stupid.
Did they really say there would still be an ICD? I’m still not over that. I would have thought that if they made that change, that the ICD would be removed.
Yeah that would never happen unless it was like a 10% chance to inflict Burning on Crit.
The problem is, how effective is it in builds with low/no condition damage compared to Close To Death? if you manage to have 1k condition damage then maybe but what is the MIN condition damage you should be looking for when thinking about this trait?
It isnt even that overpowered, it is taken simply due to the fact they lose to much damage without it, thanks to all the nerfs to other conditions on skills and weapons thanks to the introduction of this trait which since all the nerfs started has also been nerfed several times…
So now we are weaker because people kept on whining about it. This is good news?
No, it just shows how poor Anet are, they have us a trait many didn’t want and then they went and nerfed other conditions to accommodate this condition and then went and nerfed this condition several times…
People don’t take it because it is a great/useful trait they take it because they HAVE to
My weapons would be:
Valk for the Dagger and Warhorn and i always use Dark Pact before dropping Well of Suffering. with the fact Life Blast gives Vul and Might WoS is great for the added Vul as well as solid damage.
Currently i am running with 5% Crit Chance on both Main set and offset with Ice on a separate Warhorn for when i hit 25 stacks of Perception
The Scepter weapon set i would likely go added Condition damage and maybe Doom or something.
My current gear:
Helm: Cavaliers
Shoulder: Cavaliers
Chest: Power/Toughness/Vit
Hands: Cavaliers
Legs: Power/Toughness/Vit
Feet: Cavaliers
Weapons:
Main set:
Main Hand: Valkyrie
Off Hand: Valkyrie
Offset:
Main Hand: Valkyrie
Off Hand: Valkyrie
Accessories:
Back: Soldiers(Rare)
Earring: 2x Zerkers(Exotic)
Amulet: Power/Toughness/Vit (Ascended)
Rings: 2x Power/Toughness/Vit(Ascended)
So, know that Crit damage is getting nerfed, i was thinking about changing a few of my Crit damage items and upping my Condition damage a bit and using Scepter Main Hand.
What do you guys think? I run 30/10/0/0/30 In a DeathShroud build taking WoS, SA and SG currently. I just pretty much want to change the Crit damage out on a few items for Condition Damage.
I would lose: 6% from Armor, Nothing from the weapons as i would use Valk Dagger and WarHorn and then a condition based Scepter and Focus/Dagger and could lose another 12% Crit damage from the Exotic earrings and in exchange i would get 147Condition damage from the Armor in exchange for 6% Crit damage and from the earrings i would get 110Condition damage in exchange for 12% Crit Damage.
I would have 51% Crit damage if i changed out the Armor and Accessories but i would have 257 Condition damage added to my 130 that i already have, so i would have 387 Condition Damage this would help make my 40% Condition duration to be something worth while.
I am more of a “Tankish” build over a full zerker/burst build so with the changes to Zerker and Crit Damage would the above changes make it worthwhile?
Well considering that Necromancers were STRONGER before Dhuumfire was introduced that says something. While it is good, the counter that it has had having so much nerfed and then itself being nerfed several times has FORCED people to use it.
Dhuumfire is OP, that´s why the best conditionbuild ingame is the Godfireguard….Burning OP nerf it!
My Engineer build had PERMA burning, is that not overpowered? Why is a trait with a low duration and 10second cool down more powerful?
Curious as to why it’s “OP as hell” compared to lets say Incendiary Powder. Which is at Master level, thus costing less to get and have a few second longer duration despite the LOWER condition Duration. Though that could be different in S/TPvP
Just trait wise to get IP it is 20 trait points and gives 20% Condition duration – Lasts for 4 3/4 seconds
Just trait wise to get Dhuumfire it is 30 traits and gives 30% condition duration and yet even with 10% MORE duration only lasts for 4 3/4 seconds AND is a grand master trait
So, does that mean that IP needs to be nerfed as well? considering it IS better trait than Dhuumfire…
Also, i see this as a HUGE nerf to condition Necromancer builds. The longer you are in Death Shroud the lower damage you will be doing due to the conditions fading off. It is more used for Gap closing, Tainted Shackles and then out. MAYBE Life Transfer depending on the situation.
Now having to stay in it LONGER to make sure Burning procs is going to make them be doing less damage than if they didn’t take it and stayed with normal conditions.
In my build i have TWO damaging conditions and one of them is from a minor trait and another an average stack with long duration Torment on a 40second cool down. This change to Dhuumfire won’t make me go from Close to Death to use Dhuumfire – even in my DSLifeBlast build
Considering i have like 130 Condition damage and that is from Travelers Runes and 10 points into Curses.
We will see, i just don’t see it being that great. Though if they made it so that it inflicted EVERYONE with Burning with the Unyelding Blast trait then that would be another story i think.
In pvp the issue is simple. You go into death shroud and start an obvious and LONG cast time to try and hit enemy. Firstly they have to stay in los to hit them. Secondly they can just dodge. They can stun you, they can burst you.
Odds are you will rarely hit the life blast on someone good. At which point you are just wasting life force and your sustain. You can chain it with doom, but then you cant chain other stuff and you are looking at only proccing burning every 20 seconds (maybe).
Also you need life force for this to even work.
I run a PowerDS build and have NO issue with Life Blast, i use it in around 500range anyway so that it deals more power. Even with this change, i still wouldn’t take Dhuumfire Close to Death is a MUCH better option for me 20% extra damage to every skill while targets are under 50% is better than like 1,300 damage every 10 seconds that can be removed.
What could have been interesting, though would take work on seevral of the weapons. Replace Dhuumfire with a trait that would mean Life Blasts inflict the condition your Auto attack has…
Axe = Vul
Scepter = Bleeding
Dagger = Poison*
Staff = Torment*
The changes would need to possibly see slight adjustments to the auto attacks of Dagger and Staff to accommodate the new conditions. The conditions inflicted with Life Blast would have the same duration as the Auto Attack counter parts.
So Vul would be 2 stacks for 9 seconds, Bleeding would be 1 stack 5 1/4 seconds. Poison i would say about 5seconds would be about right and Torment would be 1 stack 4 seconds duration
What do you guys think?
This i think would be a reasonable trait could tweak and adjust it to make it Grand Master worthy.
Tainted Shackles needs improvements i think, It doesnt stack that high to start off with. 3 Stacks on a 40second cool down and an easily escaped Immobilize is rather weak.
Good job i don’t even run with Dhuumfire this is just another nerf to condition builds on Necromancer In My Opinion.
Though, that being said if they took on board my idea for changes it could be awesome:
Move Prowess(Crit Damage) Into Spite
Move Malice (Condition Damage) Into Soul Reaping
Move Expertise (Condition Duration) into Curses
you might be best off just switching Axe Training (spite VIII) to Chill of Death (spite X).
In my opinion axe and dagger have their pros and cons but in the end they are too similar but axe (including axe training) gives the highest possible boost to Life Blast, which in a DS-centered build will be your bread and butter..
Axe: 12% Every 8seconds
Dagger: 6% from Auto Chain
I actually started out with Axe being my main weapon but after using Dagger for a while i found that it suited my build and game play style better. Now that is not to say that Dagger is always going to be better in every build because it is not, it all depends on the build and your playstyle.
Myself, i like to be “facetanking” taking Warhorn as well gives great Life Force regen, cripple and daze. The Dagger heal is still pretty decent at around 2-3k healing I do think it could be tweaked a bit though, Just decrease the Channel time a bit as 3 1/2 seconds is a tad long.
What else i would love to see – Poison on Auto attack on dagger, i know, i know will never happen.
Except literally every skill of the staff has a defensive aspect: lf regen – regeneration – chill – cleanse and blast finisher – fear.
A little regen, that won’t save you at the end of the day, i would take Dagger and use the Siphon skill and get 2-3k healing over Staff for its regen. Chill doesn’t matter either as other weapons have access to it. The Blast finisher is decent and the AoE fear are pretty much all that the Staff has (imo)
That in my opinion, isn’t enough.
They already said that’s being fixed.
5 months ago ^^
That was my failed attempts at quoting different parts, that was Lopez that said that it is being fixed, though based on that i would guess he still believes in Sanata and the Tooth Fairy…
Anyway, it’s fine you feel this way. But high-level necromancers, including myself, think Death Shroud is currently working fine for survivability in PvP.
PvP, you mean S/TPvP? So not counting WvW the mode that actually has you out numbered quite a bit. Why is it that people inist on saying something is “fine” based on a terrible game mode for and totally ignoring the other 2?
…Don’t forget the bug that locks us out of heals, utilities and elite for 2-3 seconds AFTER leaving DeathShroud. Though i am going to guess we will see a “working as intended” sort of post come about that.
They already said that’s being fixed.
Thats cute, you believe in Santa and the Tooth Fairy as well? i bet this “fix” will end up breaking something else…
(edited by ArmageddonAsh.6430)
I find Warriors to be very good, they are great at catching and slowing down runners, they have great damage potential and decent support. I ran with my Warrior friend last night, during a taking of a camp, we got ambushed by 2 Thieves despite cool downs and skills used we managed to kill one thief and made the other run off.
We did this several times to them and the only time they managed to kill us was when they had a 3 Vs 2 and they focused the hell out of me.
So that worked quite well as a duo
Mad Queen Malafide
“Not to mention that Death Shroud is one of the worst defensive mechanics in the game right now. People can instantly burst you out of Death Shroud, and all knockdowns and conditions continue to affect you while you are in DS.”And that brings us back to utility lockout and siphon/heal in DS.
…Don’t forget the bug that locks us out of heals, utilities and elite for 2-3 seconds AFTER leaving DeathShroud. Though i am going to guess we will see a “working as intended” sort of post come about that.
I just disagree. With an eye for proper positioning, it’s more than enough survivability for a ranged class. Even against some of the very best players, I successfully avoid focus trains by using it to get out of a bad spot.
Deathshroud is weak at range, the closer you are, the better it is, why do you think that Life Blast deals MORE damage at 600range than it does at 1200? Both the AoE skills are 600Range as well.
So You are wasting the potential of Deathshroud to stay in a “safe zone” – and why is that? Because the more you are focused the quicker you die, unlike pretty much everyone else who either have Invul, Stealth, Leaps or a combination of them all. In that regard DeathShroud is VERY weak.