Wait… what? “Simply defensive”, “High Burst” is defensive?… What?
The only thing i can think of what you’re tying to imply is… They use their high burst to kill the target so they don’t get hurt too much… Is that what you’re trying to get at here?
Possibly the only reason to go full zerker as a thief is if you go full tank (can there be such a thing?) your damage will be that of a critter and if you go anywhere in between zerker and full tank you will see a good decline in your damage but a very little (if any) increase in survivability. Essentially you will be dropping dead just as if you had zerker on but doing less damage then in a zerker… (For reference I’m mainly talking about WvW, as in sPvP I run condi p/d).Boons? can you give me a list? Swiftness, and might? What else? Aegis? Protection?
Does might count into your “High Burst”… are you trying to say the same thing with it?Stealth is probably the only valid thing there in terms of their defensive mechanics…
Maybe mobility depending on what you mean by it too…
You can’t kill someone if you are dead. Thief burst (very safe from stealth) is very good at that. Any boon is good for you, they all work in different ways. Plus, they can steal other peoples boons as well, that works BOTH ways seeing as it removes them from the target thus making them weaker and giving them to you making you stronger.
Of course it is not as strong as the stealth they have, which is why i didnt put it at the top but it is there. Of course Stealth is top of the list when it comes to defense.
I would count boons as being good defense on any class that has access to them. Of course their are better ones but they are all very useful.
Like i said, EVERYONE knows your attunement by looking at the player nameplate, it says what attunement you are in. So that really negates the “telegraph” idea. The fact it is just rubbish little things around your wrist that you barely even see most of them time anyway.
When i see another ele – i look at the name plate, it says what attunement they are in and boom i now am ready for what to really expect. What is so wrong with wanting the class mechanic to look a little less like it took 5 seconds to make?
Healing Signet = The BEST passive regen in the game no question.
Blocks = Shield
Immunities = Utilities
CC = Hammer
Condition Cleansing = TraitsQuestionable, Altruistic Healing pulls crazy numbers, as well as Signet of Malice, which is capable of restoring thousands per second.
Every class is capable of combining all of those aspects into a single build, on top of their additional mechanics like perma vigor, perma regeneration, protection, evade, shadowstep, blind and stealth. That’s not a warrior exclusive combination.
Every class? Say hello to Necromancer – No blocks, No Immunities, no Vigor, no evade, no stealth, no leaps, very limited forms of CC
While it is not warrior exclusive not all classes have access to them all and even less have all that access combined with joint highest health, joint highest armor, BEST passive regen in the game…
Hence why I and others also list high dps as well as burst. Believe it or not, it is very common to do 25k damage or more over 10-15 seconds of combat, without full zerk specs. (assuming you can actually hit them most of the time, cough thief/mesmer)
You know, sustained damage that hits for much more than the signet is healing the warrior. (zerker, rabid, rampagers, knights/valk/cav, celestial)
Forgetting that Warrior have Blocks and damage reduction as well as damage Immunity that could cut that 25k damage down to what 5 maybe 10k at best seeing as the Immunity lasts for 8seconds. All the while being able to deal damage/CC/Run and passively heal for more than 3,000health(with no traits, gear or anything) at NO cost, NO skill use just passively healing…
If Rush does not get fixed the the extra long cool down SHOULD be removed, but seeing as how many of the Devs main Ele? Yeah i dont see that happening. Anyone else find it a little odd that the class ALL the devs main just so happens to be to the most broken class in the game…
2) AWWWWWW YEEEEE BUDDY. I LOVE THE 30/30/30/30/30 BUILD WHERE IM ALLOWED TO USE 6 WEAPON SETS WITH 3 ARMOUR SETS EQUIPED AT ONCE. LMAO! LOL! AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA. What a joke, LMAO face palm of the highest order. FAAACEEEPAAALMMMM
Dont use that sad pathetic excuse.
lets see i said : As above your ONE signet heals MORE than Regen with someone that has actually gotten Healing Power – Yours comes with just susing the Signet. Your signet also can not be corrupted or removed. Also – you have as abaove Blocks, Immunities – while STILL healing and doing damage/cc, Damage reduction, same Mobility, insane CC, condition cleansing and others do you REALLY think you need more?
Healing Signet = The BEST passive regen in the game no question.
Blocks = Shield
Immunities = Utilities
CC = Hammer
Condition Cleansing = Traits
So in fact EVERYTHING i said you could have in 1 build without your childish “30/30/30/30/30” sarcasm. Sword/Shield and Hammer gives you insane CC and 3 second block, you could take Dolyak Signet for damage reduction, you could take the 2 Utilities for damage and condition immunities. Healing Signet for the insane passive rege. The ONLY thing needed from traits would be Condition removal for that you have Cleansing Ire.
1) Necromancers have the highest health pool.
2) Continue ignoring all the other defensive mechanics in the game that warrior has none of (evasion, blind, stealth, shadowstep, protection, regeneration abundance)
3) Healing Signet is destroyed by burst. Stop playing bunker for once.
Facepalm. So very much facepalm.
1) So? Necromancers don’t have Blocks, Immunities, insane self regen, insane mobility, damage reduction and other things.
2) As above your ONE signet heals MORE than Regen with someone that has actually gotten Healing Power – Yours comes with just susing the Signet. Your signet also can not be corrupted or removed. Also – you have as abaove Blocks, Immunities – while STILL healing and doing damage/cc, Damage reduction, same Mobility, insane CC, condition cleansing and others do you REALLY think you need more?
3) Burst is destroyed by having the joint top health, highest armor, Blocks, Invuls and other skills. Don’t be so silly to try and make out that Burst kills Warriors and suddenly makes Healing Signet weak – It doesn’t everyone knows it.
Also, don’t forget the bug that locks the Necro out of heal, utilities and Elite when DeathShroud ends, you “exit” it but the heal, utility and elite slots stay locked for 3+ seconds leaving you HELPLESS against attacks…
Now this is a hen or egg discussion because it is purely based on the perspective. Also, this will lead to the thing called power creep which nobody wants. ANet literally stated this is one of their major concerns. Conclusively, there will always have to be nerfs at some point.
That is why they introduced Ascended accessories, then weapons and then Armor. This game has a TERRIBLE Power Creep. So if they are trying to prevent it – they have done a terrible job thus far.
From a PvP/WvW perspective, I am really baffled that people quite frequently suggest moving Mesmers down to the lower health tier. I feel that there might be a bias when it comes to the survivability of Mesmers because of certain popular PU builds or old fashioned tanky phantasm builds.
I have a level 80 Mesmer, no Bias here. The problem with Mesmer along with Warrior, Thief and even Engineer to an extent is that they don’t need to use any defensive gear as they are simply defensive enough even if they go FULL zerker thanks to the Mechanics and skills they have.
Thief = Stealth, Mobility, High Burst, Boons
Mesmer = Stealth, Clones, Invul, combat Movement, Boons (lots of them), Stuns, Interrupts, Knockbacks, High burst
Warriors = Movement (in and out of combat), High health, high armor, Invuls, Immunities, Blocks, Insane Regen
Engineer = Stealth, Healing, Movement (in and out of combat), Stuns, Interrupts, Poison, Boons
Though i think Engineer is in the right spot health wise, same with Thief. Mesmer and Warrior simply have to much when you look at what the class offers them as well.
In WvW who takes the elementals? looking at it from a WvW/STPvP point of view – it is VERY poor excuse of an Elite. Okay either the Duration removal or the cool down starting when it dies could be removed
The stats need to be increased to make them more of a threat.
Cast time is far to long as it stands
You also have to consider other class mechanics when talking about healing, you cannot directly compare them without factoring in everything from Aegis, Protection, Stealth, Clones, Evades, etc. This point has been beaten to death but so many just ignore it because it’s an inconvenient fact to have to face.
Warrior has the joint highest health, joint highest Armor, Blocks, Invuls, Immunities and the BEST regen in the game…
They don’t need Protection or Aegis when you can just face tank everything and have plenty of skills to negate damage while STILL getting heals without doing ANYTHING and you have Immunities that allow you to continue to heal AND deal damage
With all of that and more – Do you HONESTLY think that Healing Signet and Adrenal Health is balanced?
I have NO problem with them having such Regen BUT it needs to come at a cost, it should NOT be as simple as equipping the signet and then spending 15 trait points – if they want such broken regen then they should have to invest in Healing Power gear in order to get it that high.
Healing Signet and Adrenal Health need to be adjusted. Both need to have a higher requirement of Healing Power seeing as without NONE they can get such regen is a joke.
The point is that you’re still going to die. A single fully offensive character is going to kill you. You will not outdamage his heal and his offense will punch a hole in your defense, even if it takes a few extra seconds.
It’s pointless and ANet likely isn’t going to waste their time.
That is dependent on both the class as well as the build as to how strong it would be. I think they SHOULD introduce it.
The problem with it is, it costs them NOTHING right off the bat it is insanely broken when every other class has to HEAVILY build for Healing Power they have no need when combined with a 15point trait they get 1325- 1560Hp3second At what cost? 1 signet and 15 trait points.
It is clear that Adrenal health upper health as well as Healing Signet need to be nerfed down not only in its base healing but make it require actual Healing Power to make it really strong.
I agree, Death Shroud is completely unbalanced.
Necros had to trade in:
blocks/invulnerability/stealth/aegis/vigor/evades/stability;
leaps/blinks;
plus take a big hit in sustain/life recovery;
in exchange for it.I have no idea who made that trade but Necros got shafted hard in that deal.
Yep. I mean in say a Zerg fight a 3second Invul will remove MORE damage than a 20k Life Force bar. While it is strong in 1 Vs 1 the fact we have no access to so many other things means we are actually WEAKER seeing as we have no – Stealth, Invul, Immunity, Aegis, Blocks, Leaps, Blinks, Teleports, Evades and very little Stability
Combined with the fact it is VERY hard for us to escape a fight means that we either win, die or the other person runs in which point we can’t chase them due to our ONLY gap closers being slow as hell projectiles that are insanely bugged.
How about no to both. It is strong 1 Vs 1 yes, but not as strong as Stealth or Invuls or anything else other classes get, in fact it gets WORSE the more it is focused unlike damage immunities, Invuls and such.
1 Minute cool down on the class DEFENSE, I know you hate Necromancers for what ever reason Paulie but if you can’t beat them you would rather them nerfed into being useless?
How about they actually FIX everything that is bugged or broken with the class before they try and balance it? Maybe that could work…
I mean its not as if it is hard to escape against the SLOWEST class in the game, CC will destroy the necro as well unless they time certain skills just right and even then they have SO little access to Stability it is very easy to stun/CC them to death that you want to make it EASIER for the class that can’;t escape a fight, has NO defense other than a 7second Protection on a 60second cool down and a class mechanic that gets WORSE the more it is focused – what kind of DEFENSE gets WORSE the more it is attacked…
Sorry but neither of you have any idea what you are talking about.
What is the 3rd tanking stat you plan to get? Vitality, Toughness, and ???
You can already get Soldiers or Sentinals gear. Are you advocating for a Toughness, Power, Vit set?
Toughness/Vitality/Healing Power would be a nice combo.
I agree wit would be nice for some PURE defensive options.
Honestly, the only three professions i feel should be moved around is
Mesmer down to Low HP
Ranger to High HP (to offset their lower DPS thanks to pets)
Thief to Medium HP (at the cost of stealth only stacking twice)
I agree with Mesmer, no idea about Ranger as i dont play one but i think Thief should stay Low tier and Ele moved up to medium due to all the nerfs to damage they have gotten the fact they have no stealth and can easily be 2shot. Warriors need to lose 2-3k health as well in my opinion
I quite like this skill but to me for an elite it is rather lackluster and i think with a few changes it could be improved
1) Stats – Make them have increased stats based on the elementalist
2) Cast time – Reduce it 3/4 of a second or 1second at most
3) Cool down – Have it start the moment that it is summoned not when it dies
4) Duration – Remove the 60second duration
5) Health – Make them regain health outside of combat (like Flesh Golem)
I think rather than the elementals “best” attack being automatic i think it would be better if it was like Flesh Golem and that it replaced the Elite slot with the skill and it uses it when we want them to.
Stats wise they should be the same as they are now for Health and Toughness but different stats increased depending on the Elemental summoned:
Fire: Increased Power/Attack Power and Precision
Water: Increased Healing Power and Boon Duration
Air: Increased Crit Damage and Boon Duration
Earth: Increased Vitality and Toughness
Also make it so that it uses its “best” attack when summoned but one that has 50% effectiveness and doesn’t put the main attack on cool down something like:
Fire = Casts “Lightening Strike” when summoned (random name for a fire attack lol)
Water = When summoned casts Cleansing Wave
Air Elemental = Casts “Mind Shock” on the currently selected target
Earth = Casts “Stomp” when summoned
Now if only Glyphs were viable.
I dunno, i mean 2 of them are (imo) that being Glyph of Elemental Harmony and Glyph of Elemental Power. I do think that Glyph of Storms, Glyph of Lesser Elementals and Glyph of Renewal are rather poor and i would like to see Glyph of Elementals (Elite) to be buffed and improved as right now for an Elite i do think it is rather weak.
Having it so that The cast time is reduced by at least 50% and making it so they had an affect the moment they were summoned as well. Something like:
Fire = Casts “Lightening Strike” when summoned (random name for a fire attack lol)
Water = When summoned casts Cleansing Wave
Air Elemental = Casts “Mind Shock” on the currently selected target
Earth = Casts “Stomp” when summoned
Warriors have high health, high armor and high regen because they have no access to aegis and protection outside of runes and allies. They take more damage than say a guardian but they regen more to make up for it.
It is fine them having High health, High Armor or High Regen, Having them ALL on a class that has so many skills that can make them immune to damage as well as STILL being able to deal damage is what is wrong.
Then you get into the insane broken mobility they have, the insane CC ability that the Hammer has. there is a reason why there are Warrior only dungeon speed runs and everything They are best in PvE, Best in WvW both Solo and in Zergs they are just to strong at every aspect.
Or make it have different effects related to conditions based on your attunement at all health levels.
Water-Cleanse a condition every few seconds in water, activates when swapping to water then one condition every say 5 seconds thereafter
Fire- Conditions applied grant buffs when applied to you in fire for a brief time. Bleed/Poison=Regen, Weaken=Fury, Cripple/Immob=Swiftness, Burn/Chill=Might
Would have to be short durations for the boons applied obviously, but it would greatly synergize with ele’s boon generationAir- Reduce condition duration by x%. Probably something like 50%
Earth- Reflect conditions applied within say 600 range, meaning if someone is in range and applies a bleed, they will also receive a bleed.
Thats an interesting idea as well. Maybe have it so that Conditions applied in Fire grant a boon that lasts 50% of the duration of the condition applied but that can be increased by Boon Duration for example -
6 second Burn = 3 second Might
10 second Bleed = 5 second regen
Thought it would need to have some work, that could be near Perma Regen in most situations.
but you see, to get addrenal health you have to sacrifice some big damage traits, for example I run with a axe/axe build 30/0/10/0/30 if i want to get those 15 points to get addrenal health I’d have to give up +15% damage or +15% crit chance
regarding utility skills, you certainly get things like endure pain, but then condition damage eats you up, shake it off removes only 1 condition, GS mobility does nothing against roots, unless you get the trait… I understand your position tough, warrs are probably the easiest class to play so a skilled player can do some crazy stuff… oh and I agree about the HP, they should be at middle tier at most, that hp pool is way too high
15 trait points for even more regen as well as reduction to conditions. Gaining 150Toughness and 150 Healing Power. 15 points is NOT going to suddenly make it so you can’t deal damage. I was talking about Berserker Stance for Condition Immunity, sure still have the conditions at the time but no others for8 seconds….
Boons are Balanced. Why would want to go and “fix” something that isn’t broken.
It would break builds in what way? you could still have your full dps build, the only difference would be that you’d have competition, putting suportive builds at the same dps lvl as full dps builds via boon stacking would even the field, and would give support builds a place in the PvE world, and would make boon management something HUGE in PvP, could even give some flavor to the whole zerg thing
Due to the fact that some builds use them as DEFENSE rather than offense maybe? You assume that Boons are nothing more than for Zerker builds, which is totally wrong EVERY class uses Boons to some extent and to have such a nerf to Boons and force people into getting this New Boon stat would then force them to drop another stat as well…
This change will NEVER happen.
The fact that a full soldier’s thief is nowhere near as durable as a zerk warrior IS working as intended.
The thief relies on MECHANICS and not toughness and HP to stay alive.Just wanted to point that out.
Also I think that threads that are trying to reinvent the game aren’t going to be a solution.No class is as durable as a class that has: Highest Health, Highest Armor, Damage immunity, Condition Immunity, Damage Reduction(Dolyak Signet), Passive healing (Healing Siget) as well as traits for more healing, more condition duration reduction among other things as well as CC weapon(Hammer), as well as the BEST mobility in the game.
You really use a broken class as an example of how the game is balanced….
you sacrifice a lot of offensive traits to get all that defense though, I can agree that Warrs are the strongest offensive class for PvE, but you can be one thing or the other, a tanky warr won’t do any damage, just like every other class
Erm. No. Other than adrenal Health (15 trait points) you could even get dogged March AND Adrenal Health for 15 trait points seeing as they are both in the same tree and one is a Minor trait. everything else is either part of weapons, part of the class or utilities and heals.
Highest Health and Armor? Comes from Class.
Best Mobility? Comes from Greatsword. No traits or anything required but can be added and improved with lower cool down and such
Damage Reduction? Utility
Damage Immunity? Utility
Condition immunity? Utility
Passive Healing? Healing skill
CC? Hammer
boons are NOT the issue, This change would be very pointless and break SO many builds across multiple classes for no reason what so ever.
The fact that a full soldier’s thief is nowhere near as durable as a zerk warrior IS working as intended.
The thief relies on MECHANICS and not toughness and HP to stay alive.Just wanted to point that out.
Also I think that threads that are trying to reinvent the game aren’t going to be a solution.
No class is as durable as a class that has: Highest Health, Highest Armor, Damage immunity, Condition Immunity, Damage Reduction(Dolyak Signet), Passive healing (Healing Siget) as well as traits for more healing, more condition duration reduction among other things as well as CC weapon(Hammer), as well as the BEST mobility in the game.
You really use a broken class as an example of how the game is balanced….
You had me at make us immune to a specific condition that matched out with our element.
Fire-burn
water-poision
air-cripple
earth-bleed or vulnerable.I am against the idea of getting heals from these effects. however If we had it like just a immune effect that be a great condition remover and but not enough to make it over power us since it would force us to switch around just to remove stuff which can be used by enemies to keep us from fighting in the element we wanted just to keep that 1 condition off.
Also I would change its name to match the effects. rather then diamon skin i’d call it elemental skin.
Like that it wouldn’t be Grand master trait worthy. 4 conditions over 0-100% health or all conditions from 90-100% health…
Meh, technically you wouldn’t have a net gain by switching, because you would then be vulnerable to the conditions you were previously immune to.
Yeah but timing it right would make it worthwhile and it would be better than having such a cheesy Trait like it is now. That is why i said that if you are the right attunement that you would BENEFIT from it rather than just being immune, it would be about skill and timing your switches just right and your enemy would have to adjust to counter what attunement you were in.
How about making the weapon(s) they are using have a sort of Aura or affect about them. I mean it isn’t exactly had to tell what attunement the ele is in anyway. I just think it would be visually appealing to a class that is rather bland visually.
When i started playing i assumed the health difference was because lower hp classes had access to more healing and defensive skills. Then i looked at healing signet compared to signet of restoration…
Even with 836 Healing Power Healing Signet BASE (No healing Power or anything) heals more than 100Hp/s passively and is only 400 health lower on active than my Signet of Restoration AND has a 5second shorter cool down. On a class that has more Armor, More health, more damage, more mobility and more immunity…
Necros might need their health adjusted down with their skills adjusted up so that they play/sustain more like guards with continuous healing (or more dangerous siphoning… 2k over 3+ seconds on the dagger? The equivalent of 1 power based auto attack). In this way they could truly be attrition based.
Interesting idea but that would be a HUGE nerf to the class Mechanic. Seeing as how you need as much health as you can to make the most of it. Unless they go the (for example) Life Force = 150% Of Health or something similar.
They would also need to make it so that Siphons are built into ALL weapons and that the siphons in the traits are removed and replaced with something else. Making a Class have lower health but higher siphons is VERY bad when only 1 weapon actually has a siphon and you are forced into traits to get anything out of them. Or this would be a HUGE nerf not only to DeathShroud but ANYONE that doesn’t take the Siphon traits which would make them weaker as a result as they would need to take 15-20 trait points from somewhere…
;) I like how you swapped Ele and mesmer’s tiers… Not even going to touch on other mentioned classes as I don’t want to start a kitten storm… (but feel free to add a thief nerf to the nerf wish list in my signature! We get at least one nerf request each week!)
Ugh at the very end of my post I said
“And they can keep that… just that they now have to balance it out via traits… while trying to make every class not feel the same as another…
Yeah it’s hard… It’s also amusing to watch…”
See, the discussion was/is originally about base health (kitten everything else)… but now we’re getting into who has better passive regen, who has better “defense” (whatever that word means… armor? skills? boons? play skill?)…
Essentially you can really leave the tiers how they are now and balance it out via traits/skills….
(I guess the core issue is the balance in general… stemming from the need to balance traits/skills because of different health/armor pools):| Actually, personally I would promote buffing the lower health pools to 14/16/18 (someone already mentioned this combo)…. I wouldn’t consider touching anything outside of that (like nerf something down because of the increase in health)…
well to be fair, i am pretty sure all classes would see a buff except Necro and Warrior, so all the classes didnt really need their health buffed (Thief, Guardian) mostly would need to adjusts as i think they are fine the way they are – increase Thief to much and it will become just to powerful, same with Mesmer but reduce it to much and it would be a terrible nerf.
Mesmer does NOT need to be top tier when it comes to Health. See as how they have Invul, Stealth, Illusions, Burst, Conditions they would become the new warrior – except no insane Passive Healing or insane mobility.
The ONLY classes i think need adjustments are actually Mesmer(Down), Warrior(Down) and Ele(Up) i think the rest are roughly fine the lower health ones have either high survivability or stealth Necro i feel is fine as it has no other defense bar a crappy 7second protection on 60second cool down.
I’m okay with Necro having 18k health, since it has light armor. Warrior, on the other hand, is a problem.
See…
Going by that, and I’ve thought about it too, would mean:
18k (max) health for Mesmer/Ele/Necro
15k (mid) health for Thieves/Engineers/Rangers
13k (min) health for Warrior/Guardian
The reason Necro is okay with 18k health ISN’T because what armor type it has but because how very little defense it has. Mesmer would be unstoppable if it had that much health, same goes for Ele. Both of them have way more defense than what the Necro has and that is why Necro needs to have more health.
15k (max) health for Warrior/Necro
14k (mid) health for Ele/Engineers/Rangers
13k (min) health for Mesmer/Thief/Guardian
That is how i would see it, though it would be a nerf to Necromance, i think that can be fixed by a few tweaks. Warrior doesnt need any due to how much Passive Regen, Mobility, CC and everything that it has access to
Mesmer, Thief i think would need a little nerf to counter the fact they would have more health. Guardian a little off its defense to against counter the more health they would have.
Ele, i think needs the health buff after getting so many nerfs and the fact they are forced into getting Vit due to the fact they would melt against pretty much all classes otherwise.
Not a bad one either. Which Chill and Burning around though. Though i dont quite think it would be worth grand master status anymore.
I doubt this would be possible but:
Make it so that damaging conditions (Burning, Bleed, Poison) heal you and increase healing (poison) while the non-damaging ones (Chill, Vul, Cripple and Blind) ahve the Opposite affect.
So chill and Cripple would give you swiftness, Blind give you Aegis and Vul gives you might…
Of course this would be based on the attunement you are in. For example -
Fight starts:
You are in Fire.
Someone inflicts burning – This heals you instead as you are in fire
You are then inflicted with poison but as you are in fire it ticks
You swap to Air
The poison is removed
Someone poisons you but you are in air so are healed and given 33% increased healing
You are Burned – you get damaged as not in fire
and so on and so forth, so if you are in the right attunement at the time you will be healed/buffed but if not then you can remove the condition by going to the right attunement
(edited by ArmageddonAsh.6430)
The problem would be – Thieves would STILL build exactly the same but now they would have even more health. Only certain classes need to have their health adjusted.
Mesmer down 1-2k, Warrior down 2-3k and Ele up 2-3k. Either that or fix the classes. Reduce the amount of defense Mesmer gets (PU starting point) as well as all the passive regen, mobility, CC and everything else Warrior have and Buff up Ele so they arent forced into running Vit gear and stats.
You are overlooking the fact that warriors cannot kill you if they are running away.
So that means it is okay for them to have such high health, high mobility and everything else because if they are running away they aren’t killing you. Except in most cases they are running because they would have died. So all that health, mobility and everything SAVED them from dying…
Yes, that’s the proof of something that is well-balanced. You didn’t die and they didn’t die. You have to come up with skill usage strategies, group coordination strategies, and builds to overcome that, as do they. It’s called GAMEPLAY.
They didnt die thanks to how broken the class is with its insane regen and the fact that despite being a HEAVY armor class it can escape from ANYONE. That is NOT balance.
“The only logical solution is to nerf warrior mobility.”
I don’t see the logic here exactly.
Not the warrior, but another class would be the fastest, overpowered class. Do you consider it a solution?
Seems like you don’t want any balance, you just want to nerf warriors because you hate them, or one of them.
The point is – warrior have too much of everything. It is a joke that a HEAVY armor class is able to escape SO easily and so freely without punishment. If Ride The Lightening deserved to be so heavily nerfed, the same should happen to Rush.
You are overlooking the fact that warriors cannot kill you if they are running away.
So that means it is okay for them to have such high health, high mobility and everything else because if they are running away they aren’t killing you. Except in most cases they are running because they would have died. So all that health, mobility and everything SAVED them from dying…
And I disagree about the high condition immunity. When I play my warrior, even with the passive healing signet, negative condi duration food, shouts heal/remove condi, and warhorn, conditions can still eat me alive. Guess I like to fight instead of running away all the time.
You do know they have condition Immunity skill right? sure the conditions you have on you still tick but it stops any new conditions from being applied. You also have Dogged March that can pretty much make any Chill, Cripple and such last mere seconds even on condition builds.
Nah! This subject has nothing to do with ease of play between the classes but more of how the classes are differentiated from each other. This post asks for classes to be made more similar to each other than different. To do that, one cannot just look at base HP since there are other factors such as base armor, mobility, direct/condi damage output, cc output, etc.
Please do not make the classes more similar to each other.
Take Warrior for example: High Health, Armor, Damage and Condition immunity, high passive health regen, damage reduction signet, high mobility (the best in the game?) as well as very good damage. Do they need to have the joint top health considering everything they already have? Of course not.
It is clear that the health differences between classes need to be adjusted – or that the classes with such high health should be toned down. Look at Necromancer they DESERVE the high health, they no very little mobility, once in a fight they either die, win or the person they are fighting runs away they have VERY little in terms of defense as well.
The heath gap needs to be narrower. 14k, 16k, 18k would be about right.
What about Thief? They have low health due to the mobility, stealth and high burst damage they have, increasing the health without reducing that would make them a hell of a lot stronger. Same goes for Mesmer and Engineer as well.
I only see a few that need tweaking.
Ele: More Health. Considering all the nerfs they have gotten i cant understand why they have such a low health pool.
Mesmer: Down. They have insane burst, illusions, clones, Invul, stealth they could do with it going down a bit, not to much i would say 1-2k health
Warrior: Down. They have SO much of everything. They need their health reduced or the class fixed. They shouldnt be the best of everything – High health, defense, invul, immunities, mobility, passive regen….I think needs to be reduced by 2-3k health.
That would be bad idea, you could then use the cliff opposite to take down the inner while your other group is taking down the outer….
Condi spec necros can not take the 30 point need to get 3 secs of stability that is the only access to stability they have. Now powernecro may get it but that was not what you where talking about. Please learn more about a class before you tell people to spec better. Or you know get condition cleanse.
Even Powermancers won’t take that, i mean 30 trait points for 3 second stability every 10 seconds is PATHETIC.
so there is no particular reason why they need so much HP relative to others, particularly considering they get death shroud.
How about the glaring reason: Thery have NO other defense. They can’t escape a fight, they have no mobility. They have no stealth, no Immunity, no insane mobility, no passive health regen.
They have Three things to keep them alive:
1) High Health – Can only do so much
2) DeathShroud – Gets WORSE the more it is focused
3) 7second Protection on 60 second cool down – Amazing.
They also have VERY little access to stability so they are VERY easily CCed to death. They have PLENTY of reasons why they have and NEED high health.
Haha don’t worry that was just a sarcasm post. There are a lot of warriors in denial of how OP their mobility is and they’d cry foul if this change were to happen because right now, they have High Defense and High Mobility and a change like this would only mean a nerf to them. Of course as a person who plays another class, I’d love to try this out.
Of course, to them they are just balanced.
I do think that opening up all Armor types could work. It would take adjustments to the classes, personally not the health of all of them being equal. I do think that Ele need to go up, Mesmer, Warrior need to go down.
If they normalized the armor, then adjusted certain classes defenses giving a tweak here and there this could really open up some very interesting build options
Remove food from WvW, that is the solution.
Then introduce Condi Dmg/Condi Duration/ Precision gear
Then remove the cap on condition duration
Then remove the stack limit on condition duration
The Condition specs finally won’t be completely worthless and can be taken into groups for a change.
Yeah they would just be insanely overpowered. Imagine 2 – 3 even more full condi Necromancers using Epidemic on different people they have used Sig of Spite on, calling the targets first to get Engineers as well to burst them with conditions maybe a Thief or 2 and imagine it…
Conditions need work that is for sure, this would make them WAY to strong in WvW.