Guild Wars 2

Thieves are a hit and run class. Not many out there are built to stand toe to toe with a warrior or guardian or any class for that matter and take punishment. We use our stealth abilities to help avoid damage not soak it up. Not sure how you used 3 immobilizes and couldn’t stop one. The only logical thing I can understand is he was Sword/whatever, used Infiltrator’s Strike (double tap) to break free of your first and shadowstep in same location to break free of the second but the last one is interesting because we don’t have anything else that breaks immobilize that doesn’t shoot us backwards towards you. All that’s left is his heal (Withdraw, which rolls you backwards) and Roll of Initiative (rolls backwards). So… yeah. I’m sure he had shortbow for Infiltrator’s Arrow for more shadowstep abilities but those don’t cure conditions…

For quickness, I agree, give me my dodges back and the rangers their healing abilities. I’ll take the 50% dmg increase like warriors anyday.

I can’t agree with your last statement “Thieves don’t have everything; but they’re closer than most professions to it.” Can I ask for an example how thieves are so spoiled that we have everything even though venoms and traps are pretty much useless to us?

I hear a lot of complaining about a specific type of thief build, backstab, but I never see any logical ways to fix it mentioned besides “nerf it.” Nerfing something doesn’t fix everything. One change to that will change how thieves play, their gear, and tactics.

Right now you’re upset that thieves have crazy burst dmg and almost “perma-stealth” due to rendering issues and your lack of attention on the battlefield. Thieves don’t have perma-stealth, they just caught you when you weren’t looking. Enough said.

So Skudder has an 80 thief. How would you fix the thief class? What does a thief bring to the tabble if not his burst dps/cond dps? Surely you won’t say venoms or then I would have to really believe you don’t know your class.

p.s. Anyone can have a level 80.

They say pictures are worth a thousand words. I can just think of one. Domination. GG IoJ and HoD.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYEQRAoY6YlUmKP3dS0E/5Eh/hvq9gmyMm9MuqVB;TABgyyuEcJ5S1liLKfMzImxCjzHJMrAGBs7Y2B

I threw a bunch of carrion gems in to give the max potential effect though I am unsure if it is reachable but it gives you an idea on the potentcy.

I thought about moving some things around to put 30 into CS for free 100% crit backstabs but decided not to.

Don’t think so. I believe they only effect direct damage.

Shadow Thieves Guild is my vote for a name. If you guys make it to Sea of Sorrows, hit me up!

I’m 75 on my thief and I have 0/30/30/5/0 (will probably move this to DA for Mug at 80. And I have Hidden Killer for the 100% backstab because I run Power, Toughness, Vitality gear (karma crap) and beserker jewelry and weapons. I backstab for anywhere from 4-9k but I have more health and more survivability. I’d like to switch Hidden Killer to the trait for +20% dmg below 50%. Heartseeker + Assassin’s Signet would blow ppl up.

This should be moved to Suggestions.

I like it.

For condition removal, I feel pigeon-holed into shouts and Runes of the Soldier with Signet of Resolve if I try and go for an AH build. Ontop of that, if I go with Runes of the Soldier, my boon duration suffers. Shouts are mostly the only way we can buff allies and take advantage of AH. Do we get credit if allies complete combo finishers from combo fields towards AH through consecration? I guess my problem is, I can’t find a way to maintain my survivability without AH. Meditations can heal but only for burst heals and they are only around 1k.

I think guardians could use a little love in the vitality department. Not a lot but some, yes.

Bobobejumbo.4951:

Quick link, until I have the time to give a more thorough explanation of the build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJARWlYg67mFyKEfIFRuA7DEETBG141DHSRGC;TgAqsMZJyymlLLZWrPGFA

I use a mix of the stats from 5 pieces of Aurora (Karma version of Soldiers) gear, and 1 piece Valkyrie (boots).

And no, I do NOT stick with just the GS as my main weapon. In fact, I view the staff as my main weapon. I frequently change the GS out for the Hammer, or a mace/focus(shield). I find little to no use for the torch (jumping puzzles in the dark maybe?) 1h sword, or the scepter. Working on compiling a pretty lengthy guide, but I do not know how long that will take given my schedule. In the meantime, please feel free to continue asking questions.

Happily awaiting your guide. Thanks for taking your time to share with the rest of the guardian community.

Then let’s lay out the issues. Stealth rendering issue, able to stealth every 3 seconds to get a huge attack off that costs no resources( bigger if flanking ), stealth doesn’t break with damage, and stealth stomping.

Cinder.4865:

Permanent stealth is not the answer. Looking at specific skills like backstab, however, is, if there’s truly a problem.

I like backstab. The damage should not change but it shouldn’t be an ability that we can use on a continous basis. I was hoping to offer a suggestion for the use of it and not so much the damage aspect.

Daecollo.9578:

Why is this on the suggestion forum?

A suggestion for stealth because everyone is complaining about how we chain stealth and abuse backstab.

Am I in the wrong forum?

lol a public execution….YES!

“Artemis the Shade has been banned/temp banned for exploiting stealth rendering bug! Thank you for helping to make Guild Wars 2 a better place! We appreciate your feedback.”

Hello fellow thieves!

I’ll keep this short. Tired of everyone whinning about our stealth because of a rendering issue and our ability to use backstab a lot to blow people up? Now this is a long shot suggestion and I’d hate to have to go back to how other MMOs have done this but here it goes. Permastealth. I’m sure someone has brought this up before but here are my thoughts and hopefully we can keep this productive and not smash the hopes and dreams of thieves. I’m only level 73 and I freakin love my thief.

Stealth: Invisible to enemies. If received (10% of thief’s life) become revealed for 10 seconds! (basically, upon exiting stealth you have 10 second debuff)

Now you wonder how blinding powder, Shadow’s Refuge, Smoke Screen, and CnD work with this right? Well your utilities won’t work properly until the revealed debuff goes away. CnD I think is a great ability that right now allows me to land continous amounts of backstabs so before anet nerfs our damage I think they can put a 20-30 second cool down on the ability and only give us 6 seconds in stealth because it’s basically our “vanish”. BUT you should only use it after the 10 second debuff of revealed! Once again, you get revealed debuff for 10 seconds.

SR gives us like 10-12 seconds of stealth. After that ability ends and we come out of stealth, REVEALED 10s debuff. Smoke Screen is a combo field that gives stealth after a leap finisher. Once in stealth you get 6 seconds then REVEALED! Blinding powder works the same way, 6 seconds of stealth then you reappear and REVEALED! So thieves can not chain stealth. Give thieves the ability to move around as they need to get the surprise attack but limit the amount of time spent in stealth once combat begins.

And fix that rendering issue….

TLDR – Permastealth with a revealed debuff of 10 seconds and a cd on CnD for our temp vanish.

Please share any possible ideas we can modify stealth so that it doesn’t remove the thief’s ability of surprise or lead to nerfs to our backstab. Compromises are better than nerfs

-Fellow Thief

saurus.8290:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j54bkD-3Nr0

tell me other classes can do this?

What’s the point of this? Run around and stealth when there is a rendering issue with stealth? If a rogue doesn’t break stealth before the end of its duration we do not get a “Revealed” debuff(unable to stealth for 3 seconds, maybe increase that to 7-10 seconds so we don’t abuse it). IDK what the point of this was besides to show how you can continously refresh stealth and do non-threatening damage.

Yes, rendering issue = a problem that anet should fix. If you’re trying to complain about the stealth then I needed a good laugh.

Anet should just give us perma stealth until we come out of stealth from backstab or we take a certain % of health to kick us out from AoE’s. Then give us a trait high in the “Shadow Arts” tree to allow us to see other stealthers faster at a certain range. Default range…200 for grins and giggles. Trait boosts it to 500.

Just throwing this out there. Give our cloak and dagger a 20 second cool down that gives us temporary stealth again for 5 seconds. To avoid how this could STILL be used to perform repeated backstabs, put a CD on backstab at…well IDK…what do you QQ’s think is fair? 20 seconds? 30 seconds? I’ll let you decide since you somehow ultimately get your way.

Not a bug. CnD has a 1 second animation lag or cast time (not labeled). So basically you press CnD, Steal, Assassin’s Signet, and then Backstab. Takes about 1 second once you started attacking your target for everything to happen. Typically fast but harder on moving targets.

Simplicity.7208:

Thread is tldr because I have to go to school…However, I think backstab needs nerf. I have a char with 2000 vitality & 1200 toughness. I get 1-hit killed by backstab. I’m not a glass cannon. I get 1-hit. How’s that fair? Even if it’s not a 1-hit kill skill (I’ve certainly never abused it on my thief), how is any skill fair that can take a player from full health with no conditions down to 0 health in under 0.1 seconds?

The answer is not “Oh yeah, see the stealth-ed thief coming and plan accordingly” by the way. That is the point of stealth.

So charr doesn’t really tell us much but let me give you some ideas on health and armor. You have with approximate 2k vitality and 1200 toughness (which is super low btw). This is WITHOUT any traits and are approximates. I just used the talent calc for my comparison. Usually these calcs are good for spvp and not very accurate for wvw. Gear actually factors in WvW quite a bit.
———————————————————————————————————-
Elementalist = 22k health / 2100 armor
Warrior = 29k health / 2450 armor
Ranger = 26k / 2300
Necro = 29k / 2200
Guardian = 22k / 2450
Thief = 22k / 2300
Engineer = 26k / 2300
Mesmer = 26k /2100
——————————————————————————

The technique this thief could have used was a steal + mug, CnD, Assassin’s Signet + Backstab. Pretty sure it’s well beyond that 0.1 second you gave but let me see if I can get closer…. Steal + Mug + Hidden Thief + Assassin’s Signet + backstab. Pretty sure it still takes longer than 0.1 seconds but we’ll just say it’s 1 second. Health helps with burst but higher toughness also helps and that’s something you’re neglecting, by a lot. My guardian has 13k health and 3k armor in spvp and I can take this combo and get away if I don’t see him in time. BTW you can see thieves coming unless of course they used blinding powder to get close enough. Regardless, he’s using 2 utilities to make sure he can hopefully kill you and then the signet is on CD for 45 seconds and Blinding powder is on a 60 CD. After that he is spent and it comes down to using a rendering issue and hitting CnD every 4-5 seconds to try another attempt at backstab.

Yeah it’s a L2P. That thief got the jump on you and his build/gear paid off. He took out 1 person that just happen to be you. We are kings of 1v1 with this build.

Word of advice to everyone that gets destroyed by other thieves. Do your research. I have a 72 thief, he is my main, but I also play warrior, guardian(alt), necro, and ranger in spvp. If you know the idea behind a backstabbing thief he is easily countered, keep moving… In spvp they do get the jump but if you see them coming, you can easily avoid or win against them. Not difficult. Just like how players are starting to get thier dodges off on warrior using Bull’s Rush + 100 derps/frenzy (I use this combo too).

Not hard guys. It’s more of a L2P issue than a design flaw. The only thing I will agree with is mug’s dmg could be lowered a little.

Even if it’s +60 cond dmg, you typically don’t need +12 crit dmg in those builds because you’re usually going for high amount of condition dmg and vitality to outlive your opponent. I mean if you go Krait, you get like what, 160 condition dmg bonus + 15% bleeding duration. I’m curious if 2krait, 2 centaur, 2 afflicted with give you +45% condition dmg + possible 30% from traits and +10%x2 from weapons. That’s potential 95% condition duration… Anyone know if there is a cap?

FrozenLuv.6017:

OMG, NO, everyone stop posting these pics. yes, its fun showing off how hard you can hit, but it only adds to the argument of the people that think thieves are OP. AND it gives a really easy resource base for the qq’ers and whiners to find pictures of thieves hitting for the so called “OP damage”

edit: if you want to post these fun threads, do it over on reddit, where the people whine less and are all about the fun of the game.

A lot of these pictures are on people in WvW that most likely lack gear, low level or they build for high dps low surivability. But, yes, I agree. The QQ’s will come here and take screens shots and pass them around. Sad really that they don’t grasp the whole idea of WvW and how it works. “Yay I’m level 7 and I normally have 500 HP but in WvW I have 12k!……WTF a thief just backstabbed me for 20k!??? NERF!!!!”

Not sure if anyone has posted this. I read a lot of the first couple of builds and they all seemed about the same. I have a very weird hybrid build and I’m only level 72 and it works pretty well so far. I don’t have Mug yet but fairly effective. Based around stealth and backstab (I know, ANOTHER backstab build, I’m boring) BUT my build brings power, toughness, and healing power! I’ll post the link and explain just a few things but it’s easy to understand. (Copy and paste into a new tab)

_http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYEQRAoY4alUmKOHfy9E95Ey2DfqCJKuHMFS1UaFoJA;TwAA0Cvocy0loL7NOnk3sKZQyWkpIA

So basically, you have 100% crit on backstab + your high power so your backstabs don’t suffer. You have crazy high toughness so you can actually stand through a full 100 derps and live, and your crit dmg is still high and healing power adds a little extra survivability. You can change up your amulet if you want to provide more healing or if you want to switch to Soldier’s Amulet for more vitality and change a few traits to focus entirely on you then go for it. The idea is to provide thieves with the ability to withstand some damage without neglecting their damage too much. Thank you Hidden Killer. I typically backstab for 4-11k on backstab depending on armor and toughness. Runes are completely up to you. This build is really just a premise to a solution for our high dmg and low survival. Hope this helps and maybe inspires one of your builds.

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

Trungalung.7850:

Guardian has at least 20 points in Honor. Pretty sure on it since he has Selfless Daring and using a GS so he should have 2-Handed Mastery. His Adept Major trait seems to be Superior Aria. He seems to be heavily geared toward healing as Rayya pointed out. At 11:00, you can see that his Selfless Daring heals for quite a chunk. My guess is that he’s a Virtues staff support (0/0/0/30/30 for example) with GS on switch for some extra offensive power.

Pretty sure he is running something like this. Disregard the runes and gems. Copy and paste.

_http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJARWlYgqCnFyvDfIFSmiVCBtKQQYKwoP6ShDRRA;TgAgzCvo8y0loLbQOvkBB

I timed his healing signet use so he has at least 10 into Radiance for signet mastery. Valor I threw in there for grins and giggles but it’s pretty necessary. Honor for larger symbols and shout cd redux(could be Write of the Merciful instead). He can cleanse like a boss so that made me believe he has at least 20 into Virtues for Absolute Resolution.

Hmm just noticed he doesn’t gain retaliation when he uses a virtue so he can’t have more than 10 in Virtues….

_http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJARWlYgqCnFyvDfIFRWhVaVggYK04Hve4QKyQA;TgAgzCvo8y0loLbQOvkBB

Maybe?

ElSdE.3215:

This guardian is using one of 2 builds, ether 0/0/30/20/20 or 0/0/10/30/30. the first one in particular is extremely tanky. AH and empowered might cause a constant heal every time you crit also with the gs you get might on 3rd strike witch adds to it. Plus he probably has improved resolver fore the extra regen. I can also tell he is useing boon duration to maximize the length of protection and regen. With this build you also have 3 ways to completly heal your self not counting your dodge rolls with double sigil of energy (i use 40% dodge regen food combined with vigor being up alot cause of crits). So each roll heals me for 1350, so think about it douible dodge switch wep dodge is 4050 health and by the time iam done rolling 3 times spaced out with vigor and my food i can dodge again. Poping virtue’i is a aoe for 3 boons each virtue. It really is mind blowing how much healing 0/0/30/20/20 has.

If you watch, he is keeping his virtues on cd because of the 5 pts in Virtues. None of your builds account for the 32 second cooldown he has on his healing signet.

Trungalung.7850:

Guardian has at least 20 points in Honor. Pretty sure on it since he has Selfless Daring and using a GS so he should have 2-Handed Mastery. His Adept Major trait seems to be Superior Aria. He seems to be heavily geared toward healing as Rayya pointed out. At 11:00, you can see that his Selfless Daring heals for quite a chunk. My guess is that he’s a Virtues staff support (0/0/0/30/30 for example) with GS on switch for some extra offensive power.

Pretty sure he is running something like this. Disregard the runes and gems. Copy and paste.

_http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJARWlYgqCnFyvDfIFSmiVCBtKQQYKwoP6ShDRRA;TgAgzCvo8y0loLbQOvkBB

I timed his healing signet use so he has at least 10 into Radiance for signet mastery. Valor I threw in there for grins and giggles but it’s pretty necessary. Honor for larger symbols and shout cd redux(could be Write of the Merciful instead). He can cleanse like a boss so that made me believe he has at least 20 into Virtues for Absolute Resolution.

Here is what I run. Cut and copy to new tab.

_http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJASWlYgqCnFyMEm4ERWhVa9ggGsgXPcIFZIA;TgAA1Cto8y0loL7NOvk3A

Hey Brutal, would love some insight how I can get this build to work well in spvp. Having to depend on my amulet for my raw stats is super difficult. I can go soldier and get power/tough/vitality but then my crit is super low. I even tried going 0/30/30/0/10 and is still rough.

I also miss out on a lot of key traits doing that. Kinda stuck

Rayya.2591:

Op , you will have to fix your stats, but you must figure out by urself what is best for you
i totaly disagree on a build GS + heals
at the same time you will have to decide on what direction you want to go, burst or tank, glas cannon (not viable imo ) or suport
here is an screen with my stats i consider them balanced

Nice setup. Good stats too. I might want a little more crit over vitality but you can’t get anymore solid than that. What’s your healing power?

For leveling a guardian and the goal is the 0/0/30/30/10 build,
At 40 – what traits should we start down first? Valor or Honor?

At 60 – what traits should we purchase? Valor or honor?

I’m basically trying to find the best way to level this build when I have access to master then grandmaster abilities. I run hammer/staff and my honor tree is focused on symbols. Valor for AH, 5% tough = precision, and purity. I honestly don’t need anything in virtues till I get AH but if I go full Honor for symbols, would those be more effective than AH?

Grr, I just need some more veteran help in choosing which path to go first. Focus is PvE right now and WvW at 80.

“Route Them!”

Usually, when the enemy is retreating they are routing and lost all morale to fight.

There is a forum open with guardian bugs. I would have recommended checking there first but there are reports where it does not function properly.

Guardians are good. Search the guardian forums for other guides and builds, try them out and see if it matches your playstyle. I enjoy where guardians are at right now. I just wish our healing power scaled better with abilities and I could give more regens out to my allies…. Let’s be honest, I wish I was a more dedicated healer/support than dps but that’s my goal. I’m getting there.

Combine all the maps into one which will increase the size tremendously(combine population cap into one – this might cause some performance issues though in hindsight). Put in portal keeps/towers for quicker transportation or ships that go to other docks (captureable). Have the ability to talk to a guard outside a keep/tower/supply door and/or entrance that gives a 3 minute swiftness buff that turns off when damage is done or taken.

There are plenty of ideas out there how we can make WvW a more immersive and engaging experience for all.

A lot of different playstyles for every class. One class should not have the tools to excel in every aspect. My thief is the glass cannon and it’s tough to get up close in WvW without getting destroyed by AoE, get a good backstab (and maybe attempt to finish my target off) and get out. My build really shines on stragglers catching up to their zerg. I’m not completely level 80 yet and my gear are blues and greens so I’m looking forward to level 80 with exotics. I have a niche and that’s get in, dropped squishy targets and get out.

With the color scheme and the general “Blackgate Invader” tag it’s unfortunate to actually make a name for yourself and be a unique individual. I wish I could remember back in my DAoC days, there was a common nightshade that I ran into that always hung out at Hadrian’s Wall, darn lurikeens…. Naming scheme could entail your “Server Name Invader” and underneath it would be the player’s name. I hate being a specific color in WvW.

With the guild’s claiming keeps/towers/supply depots and the small amount of color and icon designs, iit would be nice to know what guild is holding what spot. I haven’t thought how they could display this, maybe give the option to add text to guild banners (but not on armor) or use their 1-4 character tag at the bottom of the banner or on the map.

I would like to stand out from the (insert color) mob in WvW. I wanna be that guy that you occasionally see roaming in a small group or solo. Come at me bro!

People are dying to skilled thieves that are mostly stacking prowess, precision, and power. What they lack is Vitality and Toughness. They are glass cannons. If you go to gw2skills.net/editor/en and just goof around on there. You can go 30/30/0/0/10 and get some good bonuses to +% dmg (i.e. 10% more dmg if target has condition, +5% dagger dmg, +10% increased dmg over 6 initiative, and +5% dmg when flanking or side). If you put beserker jewels and amulets in everything and just go with divinity runes you have easily 66% crit + 80% crit dmg (150% + 80 = 230% crit dmg or 2.3 multiplier). What I haven’t figured out is if my Assassin Signet is additive to my crit multiplier or how it falls into the equation. Is it another 2.3 + 1.5 = 3.8 or 380% dmg from a crit (this isn’t even adding the 5 stacks of might from “Signets of Power”). Some smarter ppl please correct my math…

Backstab for 3000 × 2 (flank) x 3.8 (crit multiplier) = 22800 (then I guess minus any boons/toughness). I mean if that’s correct math that’s awesome. Too bad if you sneezed in my direction I might die.

link: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQJAoYlUmKOHfy9E/5Ex2DfqTi6VAsaPoZLhJA;TwAg0ynEOJdS9kyJqaM1IqxWjrGZNA

I wish I could use my own lumber to repair doors and create trebs instead of having to to spend money on trebs and supply.

Would love to vote for the bag to go in my inventory instantly or mailed to me upon leaving WvW. When you’re moving to take something and you kill a player and need to keep going, you lose track of your bags. Missing out on the rewards but you can’t miss the repair bills.