Guild Wars 2

What I am been trying to wrap my head around is a build that incorporates the ability for the guardian to continue to maintain himself on the front lines, still doing decent melee dps and applying a consistent (doesn’t have to be a long duration) of burning.

Realize that this build doesn’t pick up every ability that grants burning damage rather abilities to sustain you while you stay on your target.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vUAQNAsfRlsApWotCxZIEENhk9QkOQFs6R8cPAwVBFC-zUCB4MCik3AUHgkHQZSFRjtsuIas6GYKWER1eEFRrmQA+GDA-w

Rough stats overview:

Attack: 2557 (1h/Torch) / 2694 (2h)
Crit: 4% (looking for a sustain dps, not burst)
Armor: ~2800
Health: 17785
Condi dmg: ~1255
Condi Dur: Not necessary. Would need 100% generally to get the most out of burning since it ticks every second. Might be reachable if the new condition duration sigils granted 30% but unlikely.

Play-style vision: To be able to be fighting 1v1 or multiple opponents causing burning damage every 3 attacks and affecting 5 targets around in (240 radius). Sigil of Earth or Geomancy (hopefully being changed to Chance on Hit instead of Crit) and weapon swap grants poison (maybe go with Torment instead) for both weapon sets. That would give us burning, poison(or torment), bleed, and confusion (Perplexity).

Condition damage:
Burning - 642 base
Burning w/ Kindled Zeal - 854
Bleed - 105 per stack
Poison - 210 per second
Torment - 79 per stack not moving / 158 moving
Confusion - 318 per stack (955 for 3x and 1590 5x)

Svarty.8019:

They are making to so you should just pick one set. The Rune of the Monk will have a maximum of +15% Boon Duration, as you can see here:
http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/c/3928027?t=35m14s

Cheers for the link. Maybe they are going for making boon duration focused on a single buff stronger than bringing the duration up on all boons a decent amount. I noticed that the Rune of Strength had 45% might duration on it. I think they want you to either focus on a single boon than bringing all boons up across the board. It makes sense but will definitely hurt guardian and elementalists (or builds focusing on boons). So instead of bringing 45%+ boon duration to all boons, you will have to specialize towards one boon.

The devs just can’t wrap their head around the fact that they keep dumping more garbage on top of the trash they already released and are refusing to clean it up. Giving us more GM Traits is like eating a piece of candy. It’s sweet the first few minutes you eat it but leaves you hungry for the real meal and never satisfied. These new GM traits might be a slight distraction from the true problems but the players that have been around for a while will not be fooled and will most likely leave the game.

You’re losing customers Anet. Stop dropping the ball, listen to what your customer base is giving you feedback on, and take the appropriate actions to maintain our business.

Julie Yann.5379:

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

They really need a public test server where those of us passionate about our classes and the desire to balance the game as best as possible can come, take some proposed changes, do tests with statistics backing and see how it may affect gameplay in all types of gameplay with our feedback. There are so many of us out here ready to help Anet make the game they want and we want but they are not utilizing us.

I’m close to tapping out for good.

I like the idea, they already have test servers but it would probably be a lot of work to screen quality testers to get proper feedback.

They would need to create an in-game template that allows the reporting and feedback on certain things. Unfortunately, I am not an expert at hosting a PTS but it seems that the hardware and resources needed would be a good investment at the longevity of their game if they are serious about change.

They really need a public test server where those of us passionate about our classes and the desire to balance the game as best as possible can come, take some proposed changes, do tests with statistics backing and see how it may affect gameplay in all types of gameplay with our feedback. There are so many of us out here ready to help Anet make the game they want and we want but they are not utilizing us.

I’m close to tapping out for good.

Aberrant.6749:

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

Aberrant.6749:

...or just put add sigil of force in both and 2h weapons have become 5% stronger. Hopefully they’ll nerf 2h weapons to compensate for this additional sigil slot (as they did when eng kits were allowed to proc sigils), but afaik nothing had been confirmed.

lol what? You can’t stack 5% force sigils if that is what you are trying to say. The damage different between a 2h and a 1h is not huge either.

Nah, I’m not saying 2 force =’s 10% on the weapon. Say if you used something like battle before (or whatever), you now have another slot open which you can toss in an additional sigil. Say you choose force. You’ve just increased the damage 5%.

Additional sigil =’s more damage potential (among other things). Hence you need to nerf the 2h weapons to compensate. Unless you’re trying to say all 2h weapons are UP right now?

Oh I see. What’s going to be scary is Battle + Strength sigil. Might creating monsters.

Greatsword warriors and high crit guardians using Empowering Might are going to terrorize everyone once they pick up Battle + Strength.

Aberrant.6749:

…or just put add sigil of force in both and 2h weapons have become 5% stronger. Hopefully they’ll nerf 2h weapons to compensate for this additional sigil slot (as they did when eng kits were allowed to proc sigils), but afaik nothing had been confirmed.

lol what? You can’t stack 5% force sigils if that is what you are trying to say. The damage different between a 2h and a 1h is not huge either.

Julie Yann.5379:

Yamsandjams.3267:

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

Maybe I am missing something here. If the warrior has energy sigil in both weapons, how is it they are taking advantage of energy sigil over other classes if the energy sigil shares an ICD of 9 seconds?

Yeah I don’t even have any idea of what is going on in this thread, it was even making me confused.

The OP is wrong in assuming that you could spam sigils of energy and battle.
Here is what we know.

-On different on swap sigils will no longer share and ICD.
-if you equip the same sigil on 2 weapon sets it will only proc once every 9 secs.
-If you equip different sigils you will be able to proc each one of those every 9 secs.

Warrior with fast hands trait will be able to proc 4 different sigils every 10secs. They are the only class that will be able to do this. Here is how it works.

Swap to set 1 to proc sigils A and B, 5 seconds later swap to set 2 and proc sigils C and D, 5 seconds later swap back to set 1 and proc sigils A and B again.

Agreed. Every single sigil that is proc’ing is a different sigil.

Weapon Set 1 – Battle + Energy
Weapon Set 2 – Hydromancy and Geomancy

That’s the only thing warriors will have over other classes. If they dropped the ICD of weapon swap sigils to 6-7 seconds that would at least come half way for Ele’s.

Maybe I am missing something here. If the warrior has energy sigil in both weapons, how is it they are taking advantage of energy sigil over other classes if the energy sigil shares an ICD of 9 seconds? The cooldown doesn’t start until you are in combat and swap to the designated weapon containing the sigil.

The sigil will share the same ICD regardless of which weapon is equipped. Really I think having the energy sigil in both weapons will be a waste unless you swap weapons every 10 seconds. Since most warriors with fast hands swap every 5+ seconds then I would only put it on my primary weapon set.

Combat starts and you swap to your next weapon set procing energy. It starts the 9 second cooldown.

After 5 seconds the warrior swaps to the next weapon set but it will not proc energy due to the ICD.

Warrior swaps back to the original weapon set at 10 seconds and it will proc. This is no different from any other class. It’s the same for all weapon swap sigils. You can’t abuse Battle in this way either.

phaeris.7604:

Stealth should break on damage. It’s the only way to make it fair. If i’ve seen through your movements and land a hit then my skill should be rewarded.

Stealth confers so many advantages in a fight. It gives you the initiative, the ability to play the battle as you want. With the ‘in stealth healing’ you reset the fight each time.

You can attack again and again and even if the other guy dodges 2 attacks it makes no difference, as you still get the advantage of attacking a 3rd time whilst in stealth, and big moves like backstab don’t cost a thing. Even if you evade/avoid all attacks in stealth, the thief can just refresh it a moment later, no harm done.

It clears conditions every few seconds, so no kiting a thief off you with chill/immobilize spam. You get stacking might for doing nothing more than just going into stealth. The ele has to piano his keyboard to get 12 stacks going.

Currently the stealth mechanic just confers too many advantages with no real downside.

I’m not suprised so many people are rolling warriors/guardians, they’re just tired of being the bottom of the food chain to the numerous thief players out there. I played a thief for a year, i ran only shadow refuge as my escape and still felt safer than any other class i’ve played when i solo roamed.

It’s probably one of the worst implementations of the stealth mechanic i’ve seen in any game. It is in fact not stealth at all, it’s unbreakable invisibility.

I disagree with damage should break stealth because conditions are very accessible on all weapons and if a tick of whatever breaks my stealth then you have already destroyed stealth. On top of the fact that you can auto attack the air and glance us with a wide swing arc.

For the thief, if you’re going to be revolving your builds and damage around stealth, it’s a necessity and obvious choice to go 30 in Shadow Arts. You regain 2 initiative from gaining stealth, clear 1 condition every 3 seconds, and regen health every second. Thieves have that ability to reset the fight due to the fact that they have low health and low defense. If a thief builds heavier on the defense side, they don’t hit nearly as hard to win most fights. It’s a time game for thieves. If you don’t drop your target in the first 10-20 seconds, you have to run and reset. Too much focus on burst and not enough on sustain (unless your P/D).

I can see stealth not breaking if the player dodges the backstab. Blocking I might be more inclined to break stealth but logically, how do you block something you can’t see coming?

I try to not compare thief to ele really for the sheer difference in playstyle and class mechanics.

Shadow Refuge is a huge get out of jail free card if you don’t get knocked out of the ring. I wouldn’t mind seeing it moved to an elite slot and increase the number of bodies it can stealth.

I vote for 5 seconds of stealth (4 without the trait) and 10 seconds of revealed. Now in that same instance give us access to more evades, blocks/parries, and or mobility (not too crazy since we have decent already) to counter the reliance of stealth and makes us more agile fighters. The idea of spamming backstab is silly but lining up a planned backstab to finish the kill two or three times throughout the fight is the objective.

The daze on sword should be changed to stun and the blindness to daze. Both last 1.5 seconds.

Sneak Attack could get 1 or 2 more stacks of bleeds or allow the last bullet to cause poison.

Surprise Shot should cause Immobilize if you hit them from behind or side and Crippled (or other condition) from the front and bounces to two other targets for a total of 3.

By increasing the duration outside of stealth, we need to adjust the stealth abilities so that they are worth the difference in revealed time.

Brando.1374:

insanemaniac.2456:

Brando.1374:

insanemaniac.2456:

Brando.1374:

spvp dps test for Necromancer
Condi http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3844048 Total of 7 skills used
Power http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3844034 Total of 4 skills used

that 11111 spam in the power build needs to be nerfed.

was the power build a soldier amulet? didnt see evidence in video

http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/b/509047491

thats the whole 6m recording I did.
condi rabid
power zerkers

the condi equivalent of zerk would be condi dmg / prec / condi duration... why do you think rabid vs zerk is a valid comparison? i think valk would be more applicable. or maybe spvp knights.

Duration means next to nothing in a pvp environment due to condi removal.

Im going for max damage. in a condi build 30/20/0/10/10 isnt max condition damage.
0/30/30/10/0 will give you max condi damage with undead runes. (1503)
in the clips I was running 1387 condi dmg http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQNArYWjc0UebjNW2wejCZqw3A949wFQMSxxEMUFKHA-TsAAzCpIaS1krJTTymsNNqY5x0DA

I was going to Max damage on power. I should have used 30/25/0/0/15 but I didnt.
I used this http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vQAQJAYWjc00SbNNO2webiY+g3ge8ec5sYGHjYA-ToAg0CnI4SxljLDXSuscNKY5B

if you want I will run valk or ptv for my next attempt

Your tests are also very biased to power. You have power wells dropped with signet of spite equipped giving you even more power. Also, you didn’t use signet of spite in your condition dps test which right there will also give you a boost in dps. It may not be enough to make a drastic change but you equipped utilities that boosted your dps then stated dagger AA spam needs a nerf. Really, it’s like trying to prove this car will go faster than the other and give one nitro.

In a fight that will last longer than 10 seconds, condition damage will still come out on top as the abilities done by most direct damage attacks will be on cool down applying little to no conditions to maintain the sustain while your conditions applied by a scepter, for instance, will offer little direct damage but maintains a high duration stackable bleed that will continue to do damage while the cooldown refreshes. I don’t mention cleanses because condition users can also use damage absorbing abilities as well depending on the class or other forms of mobility, hard cc, and soft cc to reduce melee gc and sometimes certain range gc classes.

Looking at the bigger picture going off your slanted test for dagger spam, I would say the different in damage done is acceptable due to other variables that can’t be accounted for without trying and testing ever single little spec/setup. Your test makes it difficult to prove anything other than that condition damage takes a tiny bit longer to take off but has the potential to do more damage in a longer duration of time.

@Coglin "Yet you argue that conditions need a nerf eh? How did you come to this conclusion? Do you have a fact, or even a reasonable example to support your suggestion that conditions are over powered my friend?"

I’m not sure where you thought I was coming from. Throughout the thread I actually support condition damage where it is at, minus confusion and the retaliation boon, and feel conditions are in a good place. They are easily applied which means their damage doesn’t need to be boosted at all nor their duration since it is expected to be cleansed in a short period of time after applying. My only argument is that every fight will be different in spvp and wvw based on spec and which class brings the most counters for the opposite damage type. I just found Brando’s tests to show that direct dmg was stronger and should be nerfed to be fallible. In my previous posts, I state that confusion and retaliation are too much cruise control for success.

Maybe adjust color for each mark? Red for Mark of Blood, blue for Chillbains, yellow for Putrid, and purple for Mark of Horror?

Also... this is my own opinion but Marks should not be able to be dodged through. If you enter a mark it should hit you regardless of any blocks, shields, aegis, or divine freakin intervention. It should hit you. With that said, the size of the mark would be up for debate seeing you make marks unblockable and possibly would be balanced at their current size if not just a little smaller.

I honestly wish they were just consistently kicking out small patches and tweaks every two weeks. Even if the change has not been fully tested and they just wanted to give it to the community and let us test it for two weeks then give our feedback, even that shows the desire to change and improve the game. Then give or take every quarter just have this bloated patch full of tweaks, skins, changes in game type, basically Blizzard caliber -- can just blow our minds with changes in meta, classes, traits, builds, weapons, and the gem store.

I’ll give them credit spitting out these Living Stories every two weeks (which I barely touch unless there is gold involved) but the fact they are focusing more on content instead of fixing their current content is just bad form. Stop stuffing PvE crap down my throat every two weeks then completely disappoint me with your balance patches.

Living story has no effect on my WvW and sPvP but balance patches help the game entirety.

Brando.1374:

insanemaniac.2456:

Brando.1374:

spvp dps test for Necromancer
Condi http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3844048 Total of 7 skills used
Power http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/c/3844034 Total of 4 skills used

that 11111 spam in the power build needs to be nerfed.

was the power build a soldier amulet? didnt see evidence in video

http://www.twitch.tv/xxkakarot/b/509047491

thats the whole 6m recording I did.
condi rabid
power zerkers

So you weigh in the effectiveness of a condi-rabid but don’t realize the effective defense it brings?

Effectively, that is why glass cannons are considered glass since you know they lack vitality or toughness.

TooBz.3065:

And this is why WvW, PvE, and PvP will never be properly balanced.

Exactly.

Brando.1374:

Bombsaway.7198:

Proposed: Change WHICH conditions get cleansed first.

How? Conditions are removed in order of the amount of damage they have left to do (total over all ticks).

Why? This makes condition removal more effective against BIG damage while focusing condition damage around applying multiple conditions and reapplying. It also acts as a slight buff to crowd control conditions which need a bit of love in the stability and melee centric warrior/guardian meta.

In short, the problem with condition damage is that a cleanse is just as likely to remove the LAST condition you want removed as the one that is really hurting you.

Then whats the point of getting condition damage if your MAIN source of damage will be removed?

as for CC conditions the only one that is great is Immobilize because you cant move and your a free target to be hammer trained. This is more dangerous than any damage based condition.
a close 2nd would be chill.

I don’t believe you should try to make condition cleanses work based on severity. If you keep it simple and it’s just based on time of application, you remove the bickering of both sides of the debate that, well if I get hit with poison, I want my cleanse to remove that first or I get 20 stacks of confusion, my cleanse should remove that first.

Leave it based on time of application and removal oldest condition and be done with it.

Oozo.7856:

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

coglin.1867:

Kukchi.6173:

unleashed.8679:

Condition damage is fine in general, the only things that have to be changed is:

• the condition cap. It has to be removed
• the massive condition cleans capabilities in WvW Zerks have to be reduced.

It is not fine, its broken and needs to be reworked.

Based on what? got a fact, comparison, or even a reason, to back up your claim? Based on the actual fact that direct damage builds clearly out damage condition builds, blind and unsupported one liners like this do not make a lot of sense, nor does it add value to the conversation. If we want mindless one liners, we will watch old Rodney Dangerfield stand up videos. Here we prefer a little information, explanation, or facts to put meaning to a claim.

The problem he is probably referring to is small scale to large scale group fights in WvW when you can have 5 condition based classes in a zerg and they can really decimate another zerg lacking condition removals or whirl finishes in light fields. Most conditions are easily replaceable which makes condition cleansing never enough in group fights.

Get a condinecro, condiengi, glamour mesmer, a guardian, and a random. Throw this group behind a melee train and you’ll see the guardian get 12 stacks of might for group and stability, condinecro will light up the enemy zerg with marks, condi engineer with grenade spam, glamour mesmer will cause boon removal and confusion/conditions, and the necro will epidemic all that kitten. Watch people melt if their condition cleanses don’t go off fast enough.

An organized power based group will destroy unorganized PUGs just as easily, probably quicker since a power well necro can absolutely destroy PUGs faster than a condition based necro can. Why don’t the guilds who do GvGs against each other run condition based groups?

Due to the copious amounts of condition removals that affect up to 5 people around you. My guardian was built for around 1k healing power with food and condition cleansing and boons (and I could still swing my hammer). If condition removal was reduced to primarily self and not groups we may see more but then aoe conditions would become more of a problem.

coglin.1867:

Kukchi.6173:

unleashed.8679:

Condition damage is fine in general, the only things that have to be changed is:

• the condition cap. It has to be removed
• the massive condition cleans capabilities in WvW Zerks have to be reduced.

It is not fine, its broken and needs to be reworked.

Based on what? got a fact, comparison, or even a reason, to back up your claim? Based on the actual fact that direct damage builds clearly out damage condition builds, blind and unsupported one liners like this do not make a lot of sense, nor does it add value to the conversation. If we want mindless one liners, we will watch old Rodney Dangerfield stand up videos. Here we prefer a little information, explanation, or facts to put meaning to a claim.

The problem he is probably referring to is small scale to large scale group fights in WvW when you can have 5 condition based classes in a zerg and they can really decimate another zerg lacking condition removals or whirl finishes in light fields. Most conditions are easily replaceable which makes condition cleansing never enough in group fights.

Get a condinecro, condiengi, glamour mesmer, a guardian, and a random. Throw this group behind a melee train and you’ll see the guardian get 12 stacks of might for group and stability, condinecro will light up the enemy zerg with marks, condi engineer with grenade spam, glamour mesmer will cause boon removal and confusion/conditions, and the necro will epidemic all that kitten. Watch people melt if their condition cleanses don’t go off fast enough.

Healing power already affects your ability to eat condition damage if you are experiencing a passive heal or regeneration boon. Beyond that, vitality is your primary stat to defend yourself from vitality. If you want to be able to fight them well invest in more vit but in doing so you’ll have to pull from other stats.

People have choices on how they wish to play, they just don’t grasp the fact you can’t have it all.

My only complaint on conditions is more targeted at confusion and the retaliation boon. Both of which I wish were removed from the game as any dummy can apply these and profit. Of course you can just stop attacking for both boon and condition but the damage that comes from both of these and their uptime is absolutely ridiculous. Guardians can reach perma retal uptime and mesmers, engineers, and thieves can maintain high uptime on confusion. Perplexity rune needs to be fixed if they won’t remove confusion and retail should just be merged with Aegis to provide dmg upon block.

To answer the OP question...

Balance is still out of wack. Culling is mostly fixed minus the input lag in ZvZ, normally experienced in T1 and T2. They are nerfing direct damage when condition damage is still weak(and still will be) in PvE but superior in sPvP and WvW. Don’t worry though! They are still providing their mediocre Living Story every 2-3 weeks to keep the PvE players somewhat satisfied. Makes you question the title of the game.

The problem is there are some great builds out there for 1v1 that don’t bring anything to the table in a 5v5 or ZvZ such as a Condi/Bunker warrior. I have that spec just for when I felt like roaming around. I haven’t played in a few weeks due to having lost my flame for the game and what it seems like an eternity to see some decent patch notes but for the warrior I have my shouts heal me for nearly 2.5k, my condition damage was high enough for 110+ ticks on bleeds, and I had a stupid amount of condition removal, and very decent sustain + burst healing. The only thing I lacked was a hard counter to a couple different sources of burst (ie. 2-3 glass cannons focus firing). If I played smart I was able to do 1v3 or more sometimes.

There are too many cheese builds out there to name them all and too many fixes/nerfs/buffs needed right now to make the game enjoyable. Once Anet finds a good point where the mount of complaining and shouts for buffs/nerfs starts to die down to a select few different traits/skills then I may return.

This is mine and it’s probably about as annoying as it can get for a 1v1. (I run full exotics but if I spent the time for ascended, this is the potential)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vIAQNAscTnMdQlH25BmCCnIGQQK0wq4oY8Wi0DxANSDA-z0BBYhCi0CgkIBKNtIas12FRjVPjIqWfEjQALWDA-w

Usually 100% uptime on swiftness and fury when in combat. High uptime on Might, generally above 9 stacks since I swap weapons almost every 10 seconds. I sometimes swap out Lung Capacity for Shrug It Off just for that extra heal.

It’s unfortunate that they are confirming these were fake. I actually began to get my hopes up that there might be something worth returning to do in the land of Tyria. Those fake patch notes were the caliber of patch notes one would expect from a balance patch and almost met my expectation.

I think the real patch notes will pale in comparison as they always do. Can’t wait to watch another patch preview on Twitch where they show changes then say there will be more and then there isn’t.

Bunker condition builds are superior even now when it comes to WvW roaming. This will only solidify that aspect.

TLDR the kitten fight above.

I honestly wish they would remove the extra special abilities you get from Steal and just grant a short boon to damage.

The class mechanic is unique and a good idea but horribly implemented, like much of the game. The one thing the thief does not do very well in is support. The thievery line grants some boons and boon steals when you use steal but it isn’t really effective. Really, the class exceeds in being more of an assassin than a thief and that’s where Anet needs to work on.

bobomb.5209:

Leaked Patch notes? Where?

Also I’m not sure if you are for or against Zerk stance having the 2 second removal compensated Fortus, considering it is a warrior utility, and you are comparing it to a stealth skill used by thiefs

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/1yjdsw/leaked_balance_patch_notes/

eleshazar.6902:

And again, next to no nerfs done to warriors. They barely bring down their HS as if that is going to fix how ridiculously OP they are....

The fact that players still think HS is what causes warriors to be "ridiculously OP" makes me giggle. Warriors lacked sustain and damage mitigation prior to a lot of changes made and when the Devs corrected a few of them they made a monster.

They have great access to condition cleansing almost every 10 seconds, they have good health regen with HS, Adrenal Health, and Mango pie. Easy access to quick boons and their stances are really solid.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQNAR8ejkOpwtQyQMxBE0DNsK2ijixbJUKsj6A-jkBBYfCyZmFRjtMsIasabYKXCyqYJVGAzFA-w

Pull this build out of my butt, just fyi.

Just this build has nearly 2900 armor, 3110 attk, 50% crit, 97% crit dmg, 19k health and is a monster regardless of using all ascended.

409/s with HS
137/s with adrenal health(at max)
85/s with mango pie
171/s for 3 seconds from Regen but I don’t recall the icd for Dogged March (if it even has one).

So their sustain and damage mitigation comes directly from being able to stack passive healing instead of access to protection. Defy Pain, Endure Pain, Berserker Stance, and Shield Block. What more would anyone need?

It’s not HS that is the problem it’s the fact that warriors can get all of these great tools and use them wisely and become a feared class in WvW/sPvP. PvE is a whole different matter and I blame poor monster mechanics.

I agree with Amins. I played the Ranger briefly before giving up on the class (just after the BM bunker nerf). I get how the devs wished the pet would be sufficient enough to do ample amount of damage and make the class reliant on the pets but it really only cripples it.

Allow pets to do 10-15% of Ranger’s damage but bring more utility for the ranger and his group.

kyubi.3620:

hey artemis where is Drizzt

As for thief backstab... thief wouldnt be thief if they couldnt open up stealth with a huge damage spike or didnt got a 1 hit KO chain up their sleeves.. Its how GW1 assasin opperated its how sneaker in about any game opperate. Cheap shot and heavy damage oppener is thief trademark... lets at least leave them some gimmick they can run can we?

Check Luskan or Icewind Dale...

I see the thief as proficient right now with burst and you have to really drop a lot in to it to play that way. High risk righ reward and it isn’t as easy as some players think. Sure, it’s a cheese build, but we’re squishy and that’s our weakness. If Anet increased the revealed defuff from 4 seconds to say 6 or higher it would completely change how thieves work. I honestly, wouldn’t mind that change as long as there was some changes made to thief sustain so I could still stand toe to toe with condition classes and other melee.

Stealth last 5 seconds and revealed last 10 seconds would be my suggestion but they will need to give us some more defense whether that is through traits or attacks(Blinds, evades, block and mobility). Surprisingly, I don’t see thieves picking up protection anytime soon and kinda wish this effect would be applied to stealth so when we are in stealth, we still take damage but it is reduced. Keep in mind, revealed lasts more than twice as long. One backstab every 10 seconds instead of every 4 sounds reasonable right?

Svarty.8019:

Karl McLain.5604:

Give examples: I had 2000 toughness but still got hit by X target for roughly Y damage.

I have 2852 armour but still got hit by backstab for 4,965.

Thief is simply broken and needs the mother of all nerfs a complete reworking from concept up.

This damage seems low. The thief wasn’t full glass or you had protection on and he really should have hit you for way more.

I would love Anet to rebuild the thief and make them less dependent on stealth or at least offer different options than requiring stealth.

Stealth burst DPS and stealth condi-bunker are primarily the only sufficient builds I have seen done in all aspects of the game. Some pistol whip builds are good but the thief doesn’t have enough defense outside of stealth to make it viable at sustain melee damage without losing out on a lot of potency.

pdavis.8031:

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

pdavis.8031:

Warrior:
Our changes for warrior focus on providing telegraphs to stronger skills and to reduce the passive benefit gained from Healing Signet.
•Healing Signet: Reduced the passive heal by 8%. •We’re looking for ways to incentivize using Healing Signet’s active without increasing overall sustain. We’d love to hear your thoughts on this.

I agree. As a Warrior, there is no reason to activate HS because the healing over time is better then the burst heal, and waiting for a cool down.

How about a complete restructure of the HS?
1. Remove passive healing and replace with VIT increase (like Signet of Fury and Signet of Might)
2. Activating signet grants a 15-20 sec regen buff instead of burst healing.

This, IMO, will still give people a reson to use the HS and activate it. It will grant a boost in overall health and provide healing as needed, but not so much as to be OP (i.e. passive healing as is, even with 8% reduction, is more then enough to negate any conditions)

That would be too easy as it would be like Troll Unguent. I would gladly take troll unguent + something that cleanses poison over HS if that would remove the "overpoweredness" of this skill.

so you’re thinking Regen + condition removal? not bad, but warrior has a bunch of condition removal already, both passive and through signets, stances ect. Perhaps something like Regen + Vigor or Protection. I’d lean more toward protection as thats one boon warrior lack. (except for Quick Breathing with a warhorn when removing Vulnerability).

Second Wind - Warrior regenerates 900 health (0.10 modifier) over 10 seconds and gains vigor for 10 seconds. 25 sec cd.

I’ve always been a firm believer that warriors should not have access to protection being the highest base health and armor class. They have options to negate physical and condition dps. The trick is giving warriors enough to be efficient without being ridiculous and letting the player choose what they want or don’t want. No class should have all the tools at their disposal to make them proficient in offense, defense, and support.

raubvogel.5071:

Guardian wishes staff
skill #1 add damage maybe +25%
skill #2 change it so it is a homing missle that explodes
skill #3 change it to a 1s field granting 10s speed and damage so it can be used for aoe damage or for aoe speed buff
skill #4 allow us to run while channeling and increase the buffs to 15s
skill #5 add aoe damage

Guardian wishes sword
skill #3 allow us to run while channeling

Have you ever auto attacked with staff #1 in berserker gear? Try it and see how hard it hits.
Skill #2 turned in to a homing missile would be ok but I’d rather it take on similarities like the mesmer staff #1 and just bounced granting healing.
Skill #3 is fine as is. It makes you stand in it instead of dropping the symbol and off you go. Allows for you to take advantage of any traits that boost your symbols.
Skill #4 should not be channeled due to how powerful the ability is. 12 stacks of might + a large heal (and small heals with AH).
Skill #5 Perfect the way it is. Line denials are huge in WvW and sPvP. Just fix it so ppl can’t hit it then dodge their way through it. I would say increase the knockback effect to reduce this from occurring.

Sword #3 hits really hard when you land the ability but it’s easily dodged and you can run out of range of it. I kinda like how it’s set up because if you take the full attack to the face, it hits hard. I would rather it gave evasion or block than blocking projectiles though so it would be viable for range and melee.

pdavis.8031:

Warrior:
Our changes for warrior focus on providing telegraphs to stronger skills and to reduce the passive benefit gained from Healing Signet.
•Healing Signet: Reduced the passive heal by 8%. •We’re looking for ways to incentivize using Healing Signet’s active without increasing overall sustain. We’d love to hear your thoughts on this.

I agree. As a Warrior, there is no reason to activate HS because the healing over time is better then the burst heal, and waiting for a cool down.

How about a complete restructure of the HS?
1. Remove passive healing and replace with VIT increase (like Signet of Fury and Signet of Might)
2. Activating signet grants a 15-20 sec regen buff instead of burst healing.

This, IMO, will still give people a reson to use the HS and activate it. It will grant a boost in overall health and provide healing as needed, but not so much as to be OP (i.e. passive healing as is, even with 8% reduction, is more then enough to negate any conditions)

That would be too easy as it would be like Troll Unguent. I would gladly take troll unguent + something that cleanses poison over HS if that would remove the “overpoweredness” of this skill.

This pushes direct damage down while still not solving the problem for condition damage. Do they really think that lowering the direct damage bar will be considered a proper solution when attempting to match condition damage potential?

PvE mechanics will still be child’s play. They only increase the duration of a fight while not increasing the difficulty. Congrats, you succeed at wasting more of our time in your petty attempt of PvE content.

I’m with Vanensang. I have invested a lot of time and money into this game(enough to kitten my wife off) with the hopes that the next content patch or balance patch will maintain my attention but as time has gone on I find myself logging in maybe once or twice a week for an hour or two (if that!). There really needs to be some drastic changes and something more for WvW to keep my attention much longer or I will be gone by April (or sooner).

The game has been out for over a year now and still feels like it is in late stages of the beta. There are copious amounts of bugs, useless traits, lackluster skills, and no real sight of proper balance to be seen. Some classes still go unnoticed and are towards the bottom of the barrel in most, if not all, aspects of the game, ie ranger, with no solid plan for them being brought up to par with the other classes. They once said they felt "warriors were in a good place" yet most of the playerbase view the class as overpowered and here we are seeing more aspects of that class be nerfed instead of raising the other classes to the warrior’s level. I understand that balancing a class is extremely difficult because you can’t account for the biggest variable; player skill. A class could be absolutely unstoppable in the right hands and when the class is in the wrong hands, those players tend to request nerfs (or buffs) because mastering class mechanics takes effort.

The suggested changes every patch, generally, are either not needed, poorly implemented which needs further testing, or too few when the class forums have suggestions and pages of bugs which are appropriately documented. A lot of class "pigeonholing" has taken place which has led to "meta" builds. Builds that have created this standard that if you are not zerker, you get kicked (in PvE).

The status of this game, from a consumer and player standpoint, is going down hill and every content patch and balance patch either lessens the decline of the game, or increases as players/consumers find no entertainment in your product and continue to wait for change.

I implore you to please start making some changes for the good of this game before you have lost all of your players trust to deliver a wonderful product.

Warriors are killable, you just have to understand the class and layout you’re fighting. There are some really sturdy builds out there that make it difficult to beat 1v1 but it’s doable. I won’t disagree the Healing Signet could use a slight tone down but I really think warriors are almost in a good spot for most builds and would rather see Anet bring classes up to warrior’s level than just swing the nerf bat. I know there is still way too much work to be done on the other classes.

I have my dislikes about the warrior but they are not related to the Healing Signet. My suggestion was adjust the base passive down but increase the healing power coefficient to allow bunker warriors to keep the strength of the signet while making the healing signet less powerful for warrior not investing in healing power.

Why don’t they just allow up to 3 combo fields to stack? If your combo finisher passes through up to 3 combo fields, your finisher procs each field.

Or they can kick it up a notch and design different elite combo finishers that have their own unique characteristics. i.e. Blast Finisher for Fire + Lightning + ethereal = new finisher.

TLDR - Too many suggestion requiring a lot of variables which makes it difficult to code.

Healing Signet now:

392+ (0.05 * HP)

Suggested HS change:

275+ (0.15 * HP)

Example 1:

275+ (0.15 * 0) = 275

275+ (0.15 * 300) = 320

275+ (0.15 * 1000) = 425

275+ (0.15 * 2000) = 575

--------------------------------------

Bump base heal up to 4275 with (0.5) healing power coefficient.

If you think about it, thieves have access to some form of evasion on their #3 attack with weapons. S/P, D/D, S/D, SB, and P/D has a teleport out and D/P has a gap closer. We do have some form of defensive ability built in to our weapons which is fantastic and I think that’s where it should stay because it makes it universal regardless of what build we have. Our evasion is good but the cost to use it can be a little tasking. If anything I would rather they make our defensive attacks cost one or two initiative but reduce the damage and give us some form of support. I.E. SB #3 you deal dmg, evade, and gain swiftness or Flanking Strike, evade, deal damage, and with LS you steal a boon. Sadly the damage is mediocre and with the nerf to the boon steal is not a highly used ability anymore and was perfect for boon heavy classes. Honestly, drop the cost of FS to two initiative, merge LS in stealing one boon, fix the poor pathing and you have a solid attack. I once thought it would be great to have evasion + a hard hitting attack but realized if it could be spammable it would be considered OP.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Auesis.7301:

What: Everything

Why: I went afk in the middle of EB to make a sandwich and I came back to find myself dead and a Thief dancing on my corpse. This is clear evidence that the whole class is unacceptably OP and requires immediate deletion and replacement with the sandwichmancer.

I like sandwiches.

On the contrary, I went afk on my thief to eat a sandwich and came back 30 minutes later and wasn’t dead! Clearly thief is OP!

Next time be sure to /dance then go eat a sandwich. Come back to bodies piled around you and bags everywhere.

I run D/D + D/P for WvW. D/D for the initial burst then swap to D/P for the majority of the fight after.

D/P is pretty necessary for sPvP if you plan on using the berserker amulet. I would go as far as to say D/D is definitely a little more difficult to master.

Gwalchgwn.1659:

Isn’t this much like the old S/D evade spam before #2 nerf? Didn’t that build a lot but from what I can see, it looks like it has a lot in common..

Yeah, I remember watching a video of Ezio or something like that back in the day doing a full on evasion build before the change to initiative. Couldn’t remember the video name or the build.

It’s true. I wasn’t trying to go for burst because I know D/X would be the best choice for that but I didn’t totally want to rule out stealth, mainly for the condition cleansing. It kinda sucks, I feel most, if not all builds for thieves revolves around stealth which rules out unique builds and once you understand how stealth works, it’s gg.

Hey guys,

Just trying to see if there is a more successful version of this build out there.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAsY8YlYmiO3dy9E95Ey2jKUn4JuCOV3jryqqKA-jUCBYLDimsIQ0HhO7RZNBSQsMsIas6FYqTER1uDFRrWGgqxA-w

Going for less stealth usage and more of a toe-to-toe fighter relying on weapon swapping and evasion.

Personally, I have never felt like going high toughness on a thief or cloth wearer really made up for the damage reduction in comparison to my warrior or guardian. With saying that, I I removed all of my toughness gear and went full berserker/valk and have nearly 18k health while still maintaining a high amount of attack and crit and feel very comfortable with it. What this means is that I rely heavily on stealth, blinds, and mobility to negate my damage. It’s very risky but I enjoy the playstyle.

Travlane.5948:

i wonder....why...that...could...be..... hrmmmm. both vids....hrm... why couldnt the thief aikijinx in my video survive? what could the difference be?

would u call aikijinx a nub? duel him hes really good. how come he didnt have a snowballs chance in &#@! but you were doing amazing. hes been on thief since day 1 and only plays thief. are you just 100x better than him?

Well, clearly, he’s not as good as you say he is compared to Auesis.

This is clearly a pointless conversation and you can’t use the scientific method in this type of experiment because there are too many variables and not enough constants. You were given multiple other players in your first video which were doing dmg, probably moreso than you, to Grenth and in your second video, due to your sheer lack of DPS, you made the event go on longer which resulted in more shades spawning.
------------------------------------------------
Event scaling
Events scale both up and down according to the number of players who are currently participating. Events can scale in a number of ways:

Enemy stats can be increased
Enemies can gain new abilities
New enemy types may appear, including veterans or even champion versions
Enemy count can be increased
Objective requirements may increase
Most events scale for up to 10 players. Group events and and large scale events such as the finale for meta events will scale much higher. For example, The Shatterer scales up to 100 players. Events can detect that players have not performed any actions relating to the event within a period of time and will scale down the event accordingly.
-----------------------------------------------
Just give it up. A thief did it. Auesis has proven TWICE it’s doable and your example to prove guardians are OP and thieves aren’t is pointless because it’s not the class making the player but the player making the class. I would be willing to guess any player could solo Grenth with proper defense utilities. I’m sure this is a walk in the park for a mesmer maintaining his clones and just auto attacking with greatsword.

Travlane.5948:

Auesis.7301:

If you wanted a video without stacking/LoS and with a rather chaotic scene of mobs and Shades, then I just did it first try - killed the mobs in front of Jonez, then ran all the way up to the Priest without stopping and fought everything face to face. I got downed once from Corruption (not even a HP/Armor danger and could happen to a Guardian so your whining about Guardians is moot there) but it’s easy to res yourself with Ice Elementals that you just end up accidentally tagging half the time, or just takes a nanosecond to bring yourself up when you one-shot any of them with full Berserker. That video will also be uploaded tonight. When it’s up, take ONE look at the army that is following me near the Priest’s death and I _dare_ you to argue against it.

Seriously, I don’t understand what you’re trying to say anymore.

when ur not actually alone...have NO idea how u actually got alone.... but they keep spawning and coming for u.

point wasnt to trick the game and pull him solo. it was to try survive in a hectic environment. as you see the thief in my party couldnt do it. not even close. was too busy dying/dodging/healing and coudlnt even do much dmg.

ill invite you and u can try.... but you wont bc we both know....

This is the part I don’t understand. If you’re trying to be smart and explain that a cleric guardian can take more hits and keep going, even though you failed to drop Grenth, then you succeeded. A guardian can take more hits and continue to go but their DPS output is horrible. But a skilled berserker thief, the opposite spectrum of a cleric guardian, came in and dominated Grenth, by using simple positioning and game mechanics.

What exactly are you trying to prove again?

Travlane.5948:

ArtemisEntreri.4138:

Travlane.5948:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP9Ve3A_i7k

friend of mine. hes a goodthief. aikijinx was with me doing a small round of grenth,. i was on guard. i suck at guard so dont have to remind me… i play thief. anyway i said do lots of dmg….use the SOM build and just stay alive. well lets look at what happened.

ill invite auesis or anyone who wants to come try. be interesting to see how they do

I still don’t understand what you’re trying to prove.

we have a 10% dmg nerf overall coming. it hurts thieves obvioulsy more than other classes bc we are dependent on dmg. anyway point is… i dont even play guard. even i can do an easy job at survival/dmg in a frantic situation like grenth. an 8 year old can do that really on guard/warrior and ele etc. point is with thief taking the big hit onthis upcoming nerf….. i ask WHY!? why when guards and other classes can do that which such ease. anet thinks direct dmg is a lil over the top and trying to shave a lil. whats really over the top is other classes which have their survivability handed to them by “no skill ability” as anet calls it. some is passive…if notmost…but some is also witless required skill to achieve such adept power/survivability/sustainability etc. other classes are clearly more OP in wvw/pve yet dmg is taking the nerf which affects thief most.

This nerf is going to affect all classes that wish to roll heavily on berserker stats. It’s not targeted at thieves in general but the berserker community and in their live stream, they even clearly said that berserkers will still be dominant when it comes to a DPS race.

What you showed us is that the guardian doesn’t die quickly and you think that sustain = more damage than thieves. Sometimes having more upfront damage makes the difference in PvE due to less time the boss is hitting you. Which is why most PvE players want you to get comfortable with berserker gear.

Thieves will be fine with this change to crit damage. Berserkers will be fine with this change. Thieves will adjust and adapt to the change like every other class. We will just see less boom. I personally hate PvE as I think it’s the most boring aspect of the game and is predictable and scripted. There is nothing dynamic to PvE.

Travlane.5948:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PP9Ve3A_i7k

friend of mine. hes a goodthief. aikijinx was with me doing a small round of grenth,. i was on guard. i suck at guard so dont have to remind me... i play thief. anyway i said do lots of dmg....use the SOM build and just stay alive. well lets look at what happened.

ill invite auesis or anyone who wants to come try. be interesting to see how they do

I still don’t understand what you’re trying to prove. Other than that you failed again... You can stop trying because it has been proven that the thief can do what you’re trying to do and he does it faster without help.

Guardian. Easy to survive, brings good amount of support and utility to any group or zerg and has the capability to roam fairly well.

But to answer your question, based on skill, gear, and spec those three class will all do well roaming or small group. The warrior will be the best for a zerg as the ranger doesn’t bring much to a zerg besides dps and a water field. I have yet to see a solid zerging thief build besides poison share, but even then it’s more effective for small ops.

Can never have enough heavies in a zerg for the melee train.

What do you want to do in WvW?