Guild Wars 2

Koteda.5238:

What does it mean that masteries are not for core game accounts?

It means that you must purchase HoT in order to access the new mastery system.

Torolan.5816:

A non profit organization that exists to help a certain kind of people most of the time(prosecuted, poor, homeless, stupif, disabled etc etc) does not produce games to stay afloat, they receive donations big and small from companies, regular people and philantrophes.

I think nobody contests the love the designer had when making it too. Beside the helmet, I think it is fitting for a third birthday. I just contest the idea that people have to scream hoorray! for every present they get.

Of course people dont have to shout hoorray, but do they need to shout that the artists work is bullkitten, that his efforts are nothing, that his work is ugly, etc?

That druid can salvage what is otherwise, to me, an unappealing release (based on what has been shown so far).

Edit: and what GummyBearSummoner and Beldin said.

So I paid for a product.

I received said product.

I have used said product for thousands of hours over the course of three years.

The developer of that product is developing a new product that I can choose to buy, or not.

Rage?

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Ayrilana.1396:

— Imagine this scenario:

You have a child who receives a gift from his/her parents. That child then says that they do not like it and proceeds to list off numerous reasons why such as it looks like garbage, they want something else instead, and so on. The child’s parents did not have to give their child a gift in the first place.

How would you describe that child?

— Now imagine another scenario:

You have a player who receives a gift from the developers. That player then says that they do not like it and proceeds to list off numerous reasons why such as it looks like garbage, they want something else instead, and so on. The developers did not have to give the player a gift in the first place.

How would you describe that player?

There is one big difference in the two scenarios. One is a friend or relative giving a gift to someone who is a friend or relative. Any sensible person who gets an unwanted gift in this situation smiles and says thank you, because otherwise you’ll hurt that person’s feelings.

In the second situation it’s a company giving something to a customer in hopes that the customer will feel good and buy more of the product(s). In this case, the company actually wants the people who don’t like the gift to say so and list why not. This tells them whether or not they reached their target objective (making the customer happy) and what they should change the next time they try it.

tl:dr
Don’t confuse your parents with a large “soulless” corporation. The motives are not the same and neither are how they respond to critisism about a gift.

I might agree if more of the negative responses were something like:

This skin is of limited use to players whose characters are all light or medium wearers and who prefer to stay within game established themes for armor weight based on class.

That is feedback a company can take action on.

What we have seen more of is commentary along the lines of:

This skin is bullkitten.
The artist/creator’s efforts are nothing.
The artist’s work is ugly.
And so on (each example is a paraphrase of an acual post).

These all direct bile at an individual employee’s efforts. Joe artist is not (hopefully) soulless. Much of the negative commentary isnt players providing constructive feedback its just plain kittening.

I think it might be beneficial to have a “help” channel for chat that FtP players can access but which is opted out of by default for paid players.

Those players interested in offering assistance to free players could opt into the channel while those disinclined would never see it.

What I have read looks like one of the better, perhaps the best, FtP models I have seen to date.

What is offered for free is very substantial and should serve to provide a sufficiently expansive gaming experience that those who are not in a position to pay $50 all at once might very well be inclined to occasionally spend a bit on gems. I will not be surprised if at least some will end up buying HoT.

The restrictions seem more targeted at minimizing potential negative impact of FtP on the existing player base than at squeezing money out of the new free players. I think that this is key. Creating an environment in which they want to spend money on a game they enjoy seems superior (IMO) to trying to drag money out of them for basic or QoL aspects.

I appreciate the potential for keeping the core game maps more active after HoT launches. I know that map rewards and perhaps even dailies can help with this but an influx of new blood who will be, for the most part, focused in the current maps means that they will not die out when much of the veteran player base has moved on to new zones.

Something to keep in mind here is that we, the veterans, the people who have been with the franchise for as much as a decade now, are the ones who get to set the tone of this new venture. By being welcoming, helpful, friendly, and generally a positive community we have the ability to shape all future interactions with the new arrivals. If they are met with hostility or indifference they won’t care to become part of what we have now. If they are embraced as much as many of us have been as we joined the game over the past three years they may very well like what they see and try to be part of it. Of course there will be troublemakers, but we have had those all along as well.

These new arrivals are not, “froobs,” or, “F2P scum,” or any of the other pejoratives that have been tossed around. They are people who want to play a game. Most of them are decent folk not really any different than you or I.

BolkovonHarnfeldt.1372:

I think one of the problems is that they – at least subjectively – continue to devalue the core game for players who do not want to buy the expansion (yet).
I’m not saying that devaluation is real but I can certainly see why people would perceive it as such.
Basically: if you don’t own HoT you are kind of 2nd class from now on (no new content, class development probably geard towards elite specializations etc.)

Another way of putting it might be: if you dont buy the product that the company is currently spending enormous sums of money to produce you dont get it.

I dont see the devaluation of the core game. It has the same number of zones, etc now as it did weeks or months ago. Not getting bigger isnt the same as getting smaller.

Maiku Larzon.7150:

I like gw2, i have played this for years. But because new ppl get most of it for free, it makes us veterans stop playing. I bought gw2, and a few weeks ago HoT.

Either they give some compensation to the veterans or they will lose a huge part of their player base.

Why would you stop playing?

You also might want to speak for yourself rather than veterans as a group.

Khristophoros.7194:

Gaile Gray.6029:

There are plenty of other awesome rewards and we’ll be talking about those in the future.

Sounds like you’re redirecting.

I’m gonna assume yes, you have to raid to get legendary armor. It follows the design decisions around ascended items so not really a surprise.

I think she misunderstood the OPs question.

She answered a question about whether legendary armor would be the only rewards in raids.

The OP wants to know if legendary armor will only be attainable through raiding.

The title isnt clear (although the text of the OP is more so) as to which question was intended.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Gaile Gray.6029:

Mortifer.2946:

Sorry I was so sceptic. I have just created the F2P account and it looks like everything will be fine. No bot spamming, no gold selling, no changes to major things in trading post. I really like it. The restriction for free players are not restricting them from enjoying all the aspects of the game…. and if they want to join the community, they can either level up their ranks and levels, or buy the game.

Bravo ArenaNet.

I just shared this post with the team. Thank you for looking at this objectively and for sharing your thoughts. As one of our team said, “We really did think about this a lot.”

Objectively because it’s pro FTP or in general? Looking at this from my pov as objectively as I can it seems incredibly offensive. I purchased a GW2 collector’s edition at launch (pre order) and have bought an account for my wife (not $10) and we’re asked to purchae HoT for the same price as a new player who’ll get GW2 and HoT for the same money, while you now give away GW2 for free.

Going free to play while selling a paid expansion and continuing your gem store centrism feels shady. I haven’t pre purchased and I’m now glad I didn’t if I buy HoT I might do so through a box retailer, sure I’ll lose my free character slot but it will profit Anet less than buying digital it’s a small thing but it’s how I’ll show my displeasure should I continue

Perhaps because he tested it and based his opinion on the observable results of the testing rather than on preconceived notions. Its about as objective as one can get in a matter such as this.

Offline.7194:

So, the game went f2p, and basicly those who do not buy HoT get a downside because the base game will no longer receive content updates.
Compensate those who bought the game by either giving them a large discount or HoT, or with an ingame compensation, not doing that would anger alot of people.

First you neglect the gw2 veterans in favor of newcomers by pricing HoT at €45 with NO stand-alone version of it, and on top of that, those who PAID for the base game SHOULD get a compensation. It’s only fair, since we will no longer get any value in the base game.

Not really.

Conncept.7638:

Agent Noun.7350:

Conncept.7638:

On the other hand, you got charged for a free game.

No, I didn’t. I bought a game three years ago that has received a rather dramatic price drop today. That’s what happened. What you’re saying is like… if you bought a game on Steam for $60 three years ago, it’s on sale for $5 today, and you start saying, “I got charged $60 for kitten game!” It’s an absurd statement.

The free players coming in today did not get to play for those three years. I did. They also lack a lot of the privileges that I have as a paid player.

Nope, the price was removed, not dropped, that’s the flaw in your analogy. By the same logic you used to claim that you are owed nothing because of the play time you had, you are owed something for the game play you paid for. And frankly, its a stronger argument, GW2 is not a prescription game, you were not charged by time for the game but by content. And now that exact same content is given away for free, you, he, and all of us were charged for free content.

Past tense and present are not interchangeable.

You need to see a doctor to get a prescription.

Odd, the HoT page had little to answer his specific questions.

Conncept.7638:

Agent Noun.7350:

dane.4638:

maddoctor.2738:

dane.4638:

After all that everything I paid for and worked for is just free to everyone else if they want it. My money (which I work for and dont have tons of) means nothing to Arenanet obviously and if I want to play the new content I have to pay the same amount as someone who never supported this franchise who get everything I have paid hundreds of dollars for. I have to pay this outrageous amount for each of my 6 accounts!

So the loads upon loads of releases you got for free mean nothing to you? You got up to 40 completely free content releases (based on when you bought the game) and you still complain?

I didnt complain about what I got in content. Im upset that I have the pay the same ammount as someone who just buys the expansion and get everything I paid for for included which amounts to a large sum where I come from. No worries though I guess my investment has just become basically a ftp account because I wont buy hot for 6 accounts at that price and doubt if Id even pay once the price drops as Id already be so far behind everyone Ive played with this long.

You’re not owed anything. Neither am I. I preordered this game before launch, played in the betas, and I’ve played for three years. ArenaNet doesn’t owe me crap, because I got the game I paid for.

And you still have more than a free account does! Quite a bit more.

Under that exact same logic, he was charged for a free game, and so were you.

“Charged.” Past tense. The game was not free in the past. He paid for three years of access (without the ftp restrictions) to a BTP game.

UNO.4906:

gw2 rip, ppl already saying they’re gonna stop helping new players bcuz f2pers come and go like random ppl u see on the street. see what u’ve done to our community anet.

If players are choosing to not help other players it isnt Anet who has done something to the community in this instance.

Feel free to stop playing if you like. You dont need others to help you not log in.

ozmaniandevil.6805:

I don’t understand. It’s not a gear treadmill. Legendary armor will have the same stats as ascended. The only difference being, as with weapons, that you can change stats on the legendary armor. This is not going to be any BETTER than the gear we have now. Just a different look. However, you may save some gold by making legendary over ascended so you never have to change your gear. That’s not a treadmill. Stop the hyperbole!!

Kind of did stop the hyperbole in this thread a couple of years ago, no?

In general I consider it poor service to sell a package and then charge extra for access to elements of that package. Of course Anet is not required, or forced, or whatever term you choose, to provide a free* character slot. Then again no one is forced to spend money beyond the purchase price of the game either. Anet seems to think, upon reflection, that providing a free* character slot, at least to pre-purchasers, is a good idea.

As to the idea that the free* character slot with pre-purchase is costing Anet hundreds of thousands, or millions, of dollars…preposterous. Anet has the numbers. If giving out a free* character slot was going to cost them more revenue than it generated, they would not do it. They are in business to make money.

*It should be noted that they are not doing so. If you must give a service provider money in order to gain access to an aspect of the service, then it is not, by definition, free.

Suziana.3759:

The name is god awful and ridiculous and someone at ANET needs to get fired.

That is a measured response.

I like the name.

Glaurung.1076:

Most of the community have been asking for

Should probably read, “some of the community,” unless you have statistics showing otherwise.

mrstealth.6701:

We have a right to know what our gem purchases are funding

The only right you have in this regard is to know what your gemstore purchase includes for the price of the purchase. Key point is the word, “purchase.”

A gemstore purchase is not an investment in future content granting the purchaser some form of ownership or shareholder status.

You pay for a character slot, you get a character slot. Period.

Should McDonalds have to inform me as to their intent for my cash when I buy a cheeseburger? Of course not. I give them my money, they give me a cheeseburger, end of story.

Coulter.2315:

Ashen.2907:

I really do wonder why someone who is not engaging in a traditional western/christian/heterosexual wedding would want to wear traditional western/christian/heterosexual wedding attire.

I don’t fault people for wanting this. To each their own. Still, I am not a Dallas Cowboys fan so I do not wear Dallas Cowboys attire. This is not a criticism, just a point of curiosity.

That said, female characters can wear pants and male characters in game can wear a dress. They can even get “married” doing so if the players involve so desire. A wedding outfit is what you wear to a wedding. I, for example, wore a set of medieval armor, sword, etc for my real world wedding.

To answer the point of curiousity because its a cultural tradition, you don’t lose ties to the past and culture just because you’re homosexual or secular (churches maintain their beauty and cultural significance, same goes for traditional wedding gear). Also there’s nothing un-Western about a gay marriage.

I didn’t claim that there was anything un-western about a gay marriage, merely that gay marriage is not necessarily “traditional” so why would someone want to use clothing for a tradition that does not match them.

I really do wonder why someone who is not engaging in a traditional western/christian/heterosexual wedding would want to wear traditional western/christian/heterosexual wedding attire.

I don’t fault people for wanting this. To each their own. Still, I am not a Dallas Cowboys fan so I do not wear Dallas Cowboys attire. This is not a criticism, just a point of curiosity.

That said, female characters can wear pants and male characters in game can wear a dress. They can even get “married” doing so if the players involve so desire. A wedding outfit is what you wear to a wedding. I, for example, wore a set of medieval armor, sword, etc for my real world wedding.

BrokenGlass.9356:

It seems that a large portion of our player base is upset with the current status of the “meta” and want it to stop dictating to them the way they should play.

I am not sure that the portion of the playerbase you refer to is all that large and no one is dictating to them the way they should play.

Indeed playing games is about fun.

Different people have fun in different ways.

Ranting about other people having fun, among themselves, in a manner that doesnt match your preferred method of having fun is a bit odd (to say te least).

“Martha just look at those young whippersnappers go fast.”

“Too fast for my blood Gladys.”

“And look how they seem to enjoy it too!”

“Harrumph, well I never!”

“Next thing you know the girls will let their ankles show”

“Oh surely not Gladys! Not even juvenile delinquent teenagers who like to go fast would stoop so low as to show their ankles?!? I declare, I may very well faint!”

Just a flesh wound.3589:

DarkSyze.8627:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

DarkSyze.8627:

Guild Wars 2 have been Doomed long time ago: especially for WvW . Did you forget this? Or want to continue be in denial that it is not true? Or continue to find excuse to justify that it is not true? How much more evidence do you need that Arena net already give up on this game?

Here is the thread from the President of Arena net: telling you ’face-to-face- that WvW do not exist.

“Who Plays WvW”, Mike O’Brien
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Who-plays-WvW-only/first

Some players provide good reasons why this game is soon dead or already dead.

I hope soon the rest of you players will wake up before you regret wasting your precious time believing in words without actions, instead of seeing results improve..it only gets worse.

" Sometimes….It’s hard to accept the truth when the lies was exactly what you wanted to hear "

" Words may lie but Actions Will Always Tell the Truth "

Doesn’t that quote say not many do WvW ONLY? As in, most also do some PvE or PvP.

Saying that most players do more than WvW only is not the same as someone saying WvW does not exist. That’s completely ridiculous.

It is not ridiculous. If you want to lesson the reality and the truth, than go ahead. Let me give you example:

If someone tell you that they do not care about you. How would you translate that? How about if i translate that and tell you, what the person is saying is that he/she does not love you? Would you say that Not Care is not the same as saying Not Loving You?

Doesn’t Care come from Love?

Doesn’t the person action show enough of not caring for you: not loving you?

It shouldn’t take Arena net President to tell us, who plays wvw. The evidence is everywhere of wvw being abandoned, neglect. What is even sadder: Arena net treat their players the same way.

Did you forget about the Golem Event? How about getting no answer from Arena net for the entire 1 week of the Golem Event? How about if i tell you again that WvW doesn’t exist to Arena net? Where is Arena net Care, Attention and Love for players who report problems during that whole week? Yes that is correct! Arena net treated these players the exact same way as wvw. And No! Arena net does not need to say the word, their actions did it for them.

That is all

My post to you only was about that quote so and what you said it means.
1) the quote said that most WvW players do other things beside WvW.
2) you said that meant that he is telling you ’face-to-face- that WvW do not exist*.

That’s the most logic fail remark I’ve ever heard. If you actually think that someone saying that “most WvW players play PvE and PvP also” really means that “WvW does not exist” then there is no point talking with you as you are immune to rational discussion.

Its worse than that. He seems to think that running an event in wvw is evidence that it doesnt exist to those running the event.

Vayne.8563:

cupcakesandcatnomz.3924:

gw2 has been slowly dying since 2013, its not a secret, yeah the expansion has hype and stuff but after 2 days people will have seen everything it has to offer and leave again.
some will stay just to troll and kitten, but once wildstar goes free to play a lot will jump over, leaving just a sour, salty little group of players that’ll ruin it for everyone else :p

This is the funniest post in the thread. Thanks for the laugh mate.

Wildstar is fine for what it is, but it will never replace Guild Wars 2 for most of us. If we’d wanted a traditional MMO we’d still be p;laying WoW.

Gotta admit that the claim that a game that has already failed once will steal GW2’s player base brought a smile to my face.

Donari.5237:

If you quit years ago … that’s at least two years, right? So one year into the game, in which you got 1300 hours? Hmm. That works out to at least three hours a day, which would be 1095 hours. Quite a lot of in depth experience with the game, which explains your dead-on LA prediction in
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Suggestion-for-rebuilding-LA/first#post5094793

And I guess you weren’t playing during Season Two despite your detailed critique of it just seven months ago in
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lwd/SPOILERS-Season-2-Finale-merged/page/4#post4693147

Perhaps he meant dog years?

or (pedantic) 1.01 years

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

You can choose to get stuff quickly, you can choose to get stuff economically, or you can choose not to get stuff. You can’t choose to get stuff easily and fast.

There isn’t any content that requires spirit shards. Some gear requires spirit shards and you will get them, eventually, by completing maps and doing dailies and yes, opening up champ bags.

The only reason you need to farm them is if you are in an incredible rush to get something. And, if you’re in a rush, you should expect to pay extra in terms of effort or coin. There are very few currencies, aside from coins, for which you can easily increase your acquisition rate. You can’t farm dungeon tokens, geodes, spirit shards, laurels, or a variety of other currencies very quickly.

tl;dr the issue is that the OP wants something now and it was designed so that it couldn’t be acquired that fast.

Pretty much this.

Ayrilana.1396:

Ashen.2907:

Ayrilana.1396:

Heylel.2109:

I understand the game is free for the new players and the price they ask is the price they’re charging for the expansion alone…

I’ll be honest, giving the new players the core game for free is a nice way to encourage them getting the game. If nothing, it’s better than another company’s policy where you needed to buy all the expansions and the core game PLUS paying the monthly fee.

But as an old player, I don’t feel any reason to come back by this point, as an old player I don’t see why I should get this one, then wait for another expansion and pay for it once again while ‘new players’ will get the Core+HoT+whatever the new expansion will be. GW is interesting, but by this point I’ll just wait for the final expansion, pick that up and experience the whole thing myself…

If all you care about is the story then that could be one way to go. However, a lot of the maps are structured in a way like DT and SW. When you eventually go to play HoT’s maps, you won’t get the full experience as there will be much less people. You’ll also find yourself grinding much more than everyone else for the map currencies to get any items from those vendors including completing any collections.

I did not play in the beta so I am curious about the, “a lot of the maps’” comment. How many maps are you speaking of? How many total are there and how many of those are structured like Dry Top and Silverwastes?

Also what are the map currencies?

I’m talking about all maps from HoT and beyond. Anet has stated that their current plan is to make maps like DT and SW. Each of those maps have a currency and if you played the beta, you would have seen a new one.

No worries. It was the use of the definitive present tense as opposed to the speculative future tense that threw me off.

“a lot of the maps are structured in a way like DT and SW.” as opposed to “A lot of maps could/might/may be structured like DT/SW.”

I thought perhaps that you had seen a release statement that I had not.

Iason Evan.3806:

Mike: “We aren’t raising the level cap!” as if to say, we aren’t adding an arbitrary system for you to have to grind. Well they are adding in an arbitrary grind in the form of masteries. If I want to kill that boss over there, I sure as heck have to go do stuff before I get to actually do it and spend the points on that instead of maybe other things.

There is a rather significant difference between a statement being misleading and a reader choosing to read unstated intent into that statement.

If what they say is inaccurate or false, call them out on it. You adding commentary to their statement and then attempting to hold them accountable for being misleading for not adhering to what YOU said is far more misleading or dishonest than anything in their claims.

Ayrilana.1396:

Heylel.2109:

I understand the game is free for the new players and the price they ask is the price they’re charging for the expansion alone…

I’ll be honest, giving the new players the core game for free is a nice way to encourage them getting the game. If nothing, it’s better than another company’s policy where you needed to buy all the expansions and the core game PLUS paying the monthly fee.

But as an old player, I don’t feel any reason to come back by this point, as an old player I don’t see why I should get this one, then wait for another expansion and pay for it once again while ‘new players’ will get the Core+HoT+whatever the new expansion will be. GW is interesting, but by this point I’ll just wait for the final expansion, pick that up and experience the whole thing myself…

If all you care about is the story then that could be one way to go. However, a lot of the maps are structured in a way like DT and SW. When you eventually go to play HoT’s maps, you won’t get the full experience as there will be much less people. You’ll also find yourself grinding much more than everyone else for the map currencies to get any items from those vendors including completing any collections.

I did not play in the beta so I am curious about the, “a lot of the maps’” comment. How many maps are you speaking of? How many total are there and how many of those are structured like Dry Top and Silverwastes?

Also what are the map currencies?

Now I am wondering if they count the HOT and base game portions of a HOT prepurchase as two separate GW2 sales.

A one second cast is like an eternity in active/reactive game play.

Jelzouki.4128:

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Jelzouki.4128:

Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease.

Or tell us the recipe xD

They’re avoiding this in order to prevent major economic shifts before the expansion even hits.

Then just show us what they look like!!!!!!!!

I don’t want to craft Twilight and regret it because I could have got a better looking legendary!

This is a pretty easily avoided pitall. Hold off on crafting your legendary.

Never really considered warrior in that light.

Others of my characters outperform my warrior in different ways (including damage)

“Unanimous,” from this, or any other, game community?

Some serious revisionist history there. Don’t know if its ignorance of the facts, failing memory, failed comprehension, or conscious dishonesty. There has never been a unanimous community reaction here.

Grumpy.6027:

Ok so what you are saying and sorry im going to be blunt is that you just came back and want to be on the same level as people that have spent months and a lot of gold to get their gear? I am going to say for 1 stop being selfish. It is no ones fault you took time off to deal with Real Life or play other games. We all do that but for the people that has worked/farmed their butts off to get what they want and for you to say hey I want it now! That im sorry isn’t fair. This game already catters (imo) to casuals way to much. But yea there are ways to get your ascended gear now. Just spend the gold…..

This is hilarious.

Vayne.8563:

The information will come. This thread isn’t going to rush the information. If you don’t care about the betas then there’s zero reason to prepurchase and worry about it. But getting information sooner than Anet is ready to release it isn’t going to happen.

There are people who feel even what we know about the expansion makes the expansion worth it. All the regulars in my guild have prepurchased it already. And if you’re not sure, don’t. Wait until you know more.

I’m not sure why this discussion has gone on for as long as it has.

Pretty much this.

Players have the right to decide that they need more information about HOT’s content before buying and Anet has the right to draw out the reveal process as long as they want.

Congrats to Anet. This is a truly impressive milestone.

I am curious as to whether HOT pre-purchases by veteran player were counted due to the inclusion of the base game.

Vayne.8563:

Sages.3496:

Vayne.8563:

Answers to your questions, even though I’m not Gaile.

1. No. Players will not get a chance to interact directly with devs. Considering there are hundreds of thousands of players, and not as many devs, that would be completely unworkable and unreaslistic. Forums are how you communicate with devs, unless you’re lucky enough to meet one at a con or something.

2. I don’t really understand the question. Forum moderators don’t generally communicate. Are you asking if the conflict between forum moderators and the playerbase is affected how devs communicate? I find that unlikely.

3. Gaile would have to answer that one herself.

4. There are enough negative posts that remain up for long periods of time to make this comment at the very least disingenuous. Posts are removed for many reasons, and disagreeing with Anet isn’t usually one of them. However, unconstructive posts or posts that are offensive in some way are sometimes removed yes.

5. This post, in my opinion, absolutely should be removed. It’s misleading, unnecessarily confrontational and just adding a line like this is combative. If I were a mod, I’d remove it immediately.

I will state as i did in the post, no hostilities intended in this. which includes that last line.

You can state anything you want, but it doesn’t stop the post from coming off as aggressive and belligerent. If you slap someone and say it’s not aggressive, it doesn’t mean you didn’t slap them.

For one thing, you’re implying posts are removed strictly because they’re negative. That’s misleading and, in fact, accusing, since most people would see that as a negative thing. But it doesn’t take into account the number of negative threads that are completely non-constructive, or just outright rude.

So yes, you can say that you’re not being aggressive, but saying is not the same thing as doing.

I agree with you on all but 5.

There is a huge difference between asking a question and committing assault and battery.

The post coming off as belligerent may very well be you reading into it.

Iason Evan.3806:

usernameisapain.7163:

UnknownRH.4592:

Einlanzer.1627:

It’s a little ridiculous how little detailed information we’ve gotten at this point. I’m not pre-ordering until I know how many maps there are at the very least.

When you guys purchased Guild Wars 2 did you know how many maps you will get with the game? Entitlement is strong in this one. Anet owes you nothing in this regard and crying about it will not make you get it. threatening Anet with your wallet is also not gonna help.

Ah, back then it was a preorder, not a pre-purchase(there might’ve been a pre-purchase shortly before release, or just when they gave us a release date, honestly don’t recall) =) . And I pretty much knew all of what I would get. Don’t remember if all maps were revealed, I actually think that they revealed world map on an occasion or two. Then again, I never complained about knowing exactly how many maps there are, so that argument is void with me.

And majority of people are just making statement, that they won’t buy until they know more. But it seems that a lot of people feel they have to start personal attacks and call everyone entitled, and crying, and attempting to blackmail Anet. Silly, so silly, get of your high horse. It’s a forum, people should be able to make claims, and opinions both ways without anyone insulting one another.

^This is totally reasonable.

I am not trying to blackmail ArenaNet. I’m not making threats. I’m saying if you want my money, let me know what I am getting. My argument is that if they want me to give them money, I don’t want to give it to them and not know what I am getting. For the millionth time, I am not asking that they reveal story beats or plot points. Neither am I asking for spoilers. I want to know how many maps there are. Knowing how many maps there are coupled with the knowledge about how much there is to do in each map in the base game will give me a good indication of how much there actually is to do for my $50.

I honestly do not understand how anyone can argue against this.

A consumer asking to be told what a product package will include befoe spending his money is not only reasonable, it is the ideal.

Galen Grey.4709:

Ashen.2907:

Whether or not a given price for something is expensive is a matter of what (or how large) that something is.

Try this at home. Ask someone if $200 is expensive. The response is likely to be something along the lines of, “for what ?” $200 for a house is not expensive. $200 for a candy bar is. $200 in and of itself is neither expensive nor inexpensive until you define what is being purchased for that amount of money.

If the expansions are of equal merit $200 for five of them is less expensive than $200 for four of them. Ask yourself which would be a better deal (AKA less expensive):

Apples 5 for $2.00 or Apples 4 for $2.00 ?

Now if it turns out Anet’s expansions are larger than other companies’ expansions then the difference might be entirely negated. We will see.

Isnt this exactly what we’re discussing ?
however we’re not comparing houses to candy bars here. its one expansion to another. No matter the business model an MMO by its nature will have recurring costs I am sure we can agree on that. taken over a long period of time (ignoring gem sales) paying $40 every 2 years is more money (lets not use the word expensive) then paying $50 every 3 years. That doesnt mean all if fine and great. Like you pointed out correctly it may be that while its less money it could also be a case of less content though I dont think thats very likely on the simple fact that Anet have a large team, 350 people. Other MMOs have much smaller teams, with those considered large having around 250 while some MMOs have even teams as small as 25-50. I dont see how a larger team working for a longer period of time can produce less then a smaller team working for less time.

Ashen.2907:

GW1 was one of my examples actually. But really every game. I know people who specifically wait to do group content in games until after an expansion so that they can solo them.

Gw1 is a horizontal progression game, I did say Horizontal progression games are an exception. Now that also happens in vertical progression games of course, but what progression do you get when you do something like that? None because all the progression the expansion offers is simply designed for that expansion, the old content isnt kept in mind.

Ashen.2907:

You just described new builds, not new professions.

No I didnt. A build uses 1-2 weapons not 5, a build uses 1 elite skill not 5, a build uses 4 utility skills not 20. a build uses 3 traits not 5. The collective content of 5 specalizations isnt a build, its the size of a profession. think of it as a set, the profession is the super set containing 5 weapons, 5 elite skills, 20 utilities etc.. A build is a subset of that consisting of 1-2 weapons, 1 elite skill, 4 utilities etc..

Ashen.2907:

Its also safe to say that it will not exceed what you generally find in other expansions. That is the advantage of comparing an unknown quantity to a known.

It is if the known quantity is larger then the alternative even though the known quantity isnt its total.
Its like saying lets compare X with 50. Which is the largest? I am not telling you what number X is but I can tell you its bigger then 75. In that case it is not safe to say x will not exceed the know number at all.

When other games released their guild halls they nearly always were a hall or maybe a castle you could decorate, craft in, meet socially, expand the halls as you grow and thats it. Now what was revealed so far already does that with additional functionality of allowing PvP fights and rather then a castle or a hall we’re going to get a whole map. That alone already exceeds what other games do. Yet we know there is more functionality that hasnt been revealed yet.

Ashen.2907:

HOT is a product with a price tag. It is defined by its creators/owners as including certain elements (even if not all of them have been announced in detail as of yet). Game elements which do not require paying that price tag are not part of that product. The fact that those elements may very well have been developed at the same time has no bearing on whether or not they are included in the HOT purchase. If I can have it without purchasing HOT then it is not part of the HOT purchase.

No. I can watch a movie on the comfort of my home for free. (it involves waiting for my tv channel to pick it up sure but I dont have to pay anything) at the same time I can pay money and watch it at the cinema. Does that mean if I go watch that movie at the cinema I am only paying for the popcorn and drink? No I am paying for the movie, for the “privilege” of seeing it early as well as have a better experience. Same here. Some parts of the content can be enjoyed for free but to get the full experience you need to buy the whole product which makes it part of the product.

Ashen.2907:

Everything listed as being included in the HOT purchase so far.

Fine in that case please let me know which MMOs have bigger guild halls, released the equivalent of 3 professions in their expansion? How about progression systems that not only had content related to the expansion in question but also previous content. How about expansions that revamped, 3 core systems at once? should be easy if all of this is underwhelming right?

Ashen.2907:

So not empty. Mobs to kill, quests to do, locations to explore. Gotcha.

You really love to twist people words dont you? I never ever said empty, I always said relatively empty. just so we dont mention names lets create a ficticous example think gw1 zone, 10x larger but with 10x less mobs / quests.
It would not be empty but it will be about 10 times faster to create (creating the zone itself isnt that much work, its the content in the zone that’s time consuming) just cause its 10x larger it doesnt mean its 10x more content then a regular gw1 map does it?

Ashen.2907:

You having an issue with the fact that what we have seen so far is underwhelming to me is your problem, not mine. You do not get to decide what others like, dislike, find underwhelming, etc.

Yes it is. You can tell by the fact that it is what I typed.

Galen Grey.4709:

what you’re saying is things like “Right now, based on what we have seen so far, I would say that $5 is too much.”

That is not what the previous statement means. I made no comment about other games’ expansions.

I actually owe you an apology here. I went looking for the quote were you were actually generalizing and said HoT was underwhelming compared to others but couldnt. Must have mistaken you with someone else post so sorry you’re right you never said any such thing.

my whole issue was me mistakenly thinking you said HoT was underwheeling compared to what other games offer in their expansions but you never said such things, you only said it was underwhelming to you personally and like you correctly pointed out thats a perfectly fine statement so once again sorry for this misunderstanding my bad.

Galen Grey.4709:

I mean having a ton of empty maps is not better then having a few content rich maps.

Not, “relatively,” just, “empty.”

5 for $200 is a better buy than 4 for $200 (assuming parity in size, etc) no matter how one tries to spin it. Marketing departments have been trying to convince consumers that getting less for the same price is a great buy for quite some time in the real world. Welcome to august company with your efforts.

When going to the movie theater access to the movie itself is limited to those who pay for it and it is presented to consumers as the benefit of buying the ticket. There is no such limit on access to those game elements being discussed. Anyone who owns the base game will get them. One need not purchase HOT to get them.

Also note that I said builds not build.

mrstealth.6701:

but we do have the right to know what precisely the $50 being asked for HoT is paying for (in terms of what we receive, not their expenses) in relation to that.

No you do not.

It is a good idea for you to wait for that to be revealed before buying, but it is not a right. As long as the company doesn’t advertise their product as being something it is not, or containing something that it does not, they are allowed to be mysterious about it.

Galen Grey.4709:

What we’re discussing primarily here is cost however and in terms of cost $200 every 10 years is more expensive than $200 every 12 years.

Whether or not a given price for something is expensive is a matter of what (or how large) that something is.

Try this at home. Ask someone if $200 is expensive. The response is likely to be something along the lines of, “for what ?” $200 for a house is not expensive. $200 for a candy bar is. $200 in and of itself is neither expensive nor inexpensive until you define what is being purchased for that amount of money.

If the expansions are of equal merit $200 for five of them is less expensive than $200 for four of them. Ask yourself which would be a better deal (AKA less expensive):

Apples 5 for $2.00 or Apples 4 for $2.00 ?

Now if it turns out Anet’s expansions are larger than other companies’ expansions then the difference might be entirely negated. We will see.

Galen Grey.4709:

You have any examples? cause thats not my experiance at all. For starters generally when an expansion releases all previous content is essentially invalided. So why would a game create a progression that enhances content thats no longer relevant? Thats true for games where such progression is vertical which is essentially every MMO apart from Gw1, Gw2 and Eve Online as far as I know.

GW1 was one of my examples actually. But really every game. I know people who specifically wait to do group content in games until after an expansion so that they can solo them.

Galen Grey.4709:

Only we’re not simply talking about new builds, its not even simply creating new skills either. Its a new trait line, new skills, new elite skill, new mechanic etc per profession which is exactly all the work that would go to in creating another profession.

You just described new builds, not new professions.

Galen Grey.4709:

you’re right we still dont know all that guild halls will include but from what we know it includes the functionality you generally get with guild halls (a place to meet, craft, decorate and expand) and even exceed that (map rather then simple building, additional functionality you generally dont see like pvp arena) I am sure the stuff they didnt announce yet will not detract from guildhalls so its safe to say it will exceed what you generally find in other expansions.

Its also safe to say that it will not exceed what you generally find in other expansions. That is the advantage of comparing an unknown quantity to a known.

Galen Grey.4709:

Why? if they developed it for heart of thorns it is a heart of thorns feature its a simple as that.

HOT is a product with a price tag. It is defined by its creators/owners as including certain elements (even if not all of them have been announced in detail as of yet). Game elements which do not require paying that price tag are not part of that product. The fact that those elements may very well have been developed at the same time has no bearing on whether or not they are included in the HOT purchase. If I can have it without purchasing HOT then it is not part of the HOT purchase.

Galen Grey.4709:

please be specific, of whats been revealed so far, what exactly has been underwhelming?

Everything listed as being included in the HOT purchase so far.

Galen Grey.4709:

sure but there is a difference between what we saw so far is underwhelming and I need to see what hasnt been revealed yet to be able to decide if the content is worth $50 to me. I have no problem with the later, its the former that I have issue with.

You having an issue with the fact that what we have seen so far is underwhelming to me is your problem, not mine. You do not get to decide what others like, dislike, find underwhelming, etc.

That said, it would only take one or two elements revealed in order for purchasing HOT to be a done deal for me. That is not because what has been revealed so far would be sufficient enticement, but because I am willing to buy an expansion that is otherwise completely underwhelming to me if it includes a couple of specific elements.

Galen Grey.4709:

Ohh there are plenty of examples. MMOs with big maps but only a handful of quests in each and just a few cluster of mobs here and there.

So not empty. Mobs to kill, quests to do, locations to explore. Gotcha.

Galen Grey.4709:

Thats not what you’re saying though is it

Yes it is. You can tell by the fact that it is what I typed.

Galen Grey.4709:

what you’re saying is things like “Right now, based on what we have seen so far, I would say that $5 is too much.”

Pretty much (with the inclusion of the words, “to me.”

Galen Grey.4709:

What that means is assuming other expansion go for an average of $5, what we have seen so far is 8 times smaller than what other expansion do

That is not what the previous statement means. I made no comment about other games’ expansions. Nothing detailed so far about HOT is of interest to me. I do not consider things that don’t interest me to be worth spending money on. I do not buy products for the heck of it when the product lacks any value to me. The time spent performing the purchase transaction would be too much even if HOT (as currently described) was priced at a nickle. There is simply nothing to it (as detailed so far) that interests me.

This has nothing whatsoever to do with what other expansions cost, provide, etc. HOT is being compared to itself and how it meets my interests, not to other games’ expansions (for me at least).

Galen Grey.4709:

but that what we have seen isnt worth $5 is not.

Yes it is true. Worth is subjective to each individual. To me HOT (as currently detailed) is not worth $5. Unless you can prove that you are a telepath who knows what I value better than I do you are mistaken in even expressing an opinion about what HOT is worth to me.

Disclaimer time:

There is the distinct possibility that upcoming reveals will change my opinion about HOT’s worth. I am willing to spend heavily for certain specific game elements. If those elements are included then my view of the expansion will change despite the fact that everything revealed as of right now is underwhelming and not worth paying for (to me).

I like the idea a lot.

Anet set a prerequisite for accessing the content and rewards mentioned. Every one who played the content and/or has the rewards had to meet the prerequisite.

You are asking to not have to fulfill that prerequisite but still have access to the rewards/content.

This means that you are asking for something that others could not have.

The only thing unfair in this situation is your request.

Galen Grey.4709:

Is it really what Arenanet have show so far that doesnt live up to the price is it more what they havent shown people decided doesnt live up to the price even if its still unknown?

Let me explain what I mean…. What has Arenanet shown so far?

Masteries. A whole new progression system. It includes tracks for the new content and and this is key for the old content While every Expansion generally provides a progression system its generally limited to the new content released with that expansion. Not Gw2, its progression system spans both old a new content. So its safe to say progression in HoT exceeds progression in most expansions.

Every game that I have ever seen that has had an expansion including progression has allowed that progression to interact with/impact old content as well as new. This is nothing new in GW2.

Galen Grey.4709:

Elite specializations + Revenant. Elite specializations bring with them 1 new weapon, 1 new healing skill, 4 new utilities, 1 elite skill and 1 new trait line and 1 new mechanic. All in all this makes every elite specialization about 1/5 of a full profession ergo HoT essentially contains exactly the equivalent of 3 professions. Generally Expansions contain only 1 or 2… we get 3, once again HoT exceeds what other Expansions generally have.

New builds for existing professions do not equate to entirely new professions any more than adding new skills for existing professions in Eye of the North.

Galen Grey.4709:

Guild Halls. Do I really need to go through this? Most expansions that brought guild halls to MMOs provided castle size guild halls, HoT provides an entire MAP that can be changed at will with no penalty once unlocked. Again exceeds what most other Expansions did.

We have limited knowledge of what the expansions introduced in HOT will include. Not sure that we can say that it will exceed (or not exceed for that matter) what others have added without knowing the full scope of what it will actually add.

Galen Grey.4709:

PvP what we get in sPvP and WvW isnt really bigger then what other expansions do but it isnt smaller either. Well at least compared with those expansions that actually release new PvP content, plenty of examples of expansions that didnt contain any PvP content. That being said I wouldnt say this exceeds expectation but that it rather meets them.

If it is accessible without buying the expansion it is not a feature of the expansion.

Galen Grey.4709:

Quality of life.
HoT will also redesign Guild chat, Guild Currencies, Guild missions, guild claiming in WvW, the trait system and PvP Queuing system (already happened but was dont for HoT), introduce PvP Leagues, Map reward bonuses, Fractal redesign, fractal leader boards, revised WvW Scoring. Certainly not the first Expansion to include a quality of life update to an existent system but personally I’ve never see one that includes so many updates to so many systems all at once. Once again as expansion go this is bigger then what you generally get with an expansion.

If it is accessible without buying the expansion it is not a feature of the expansion.

Galen Grey.4709:

That all that was revealed so far and none of it is really underwhelming like people seem to claim..

Or it is all underwhelming. Or some of it is underwhelming. So far nothing that has been revealed has been worth the price of the expansion to me.. This of course may change based on future revelations. We shall see. The thing is that worth or value is completely subjective. To some everything revealed so far may be worth $100 while to others (such as myself) even as little kitten would be too much.

Galen Grey.4709:

That being said there of course is a concern that it will be lacking in terms of new maps.. thats possible especially since Colin more then once said that they’re not focusing on making a huge number of maps but rather making quality maps. So yeah its possible it may lack in that respect however we dont know anything in that regard so we cant really judge. Besides the number of maps on its own is meaningless. It needs to be taken in context with content. I mean having a ton of empty maps is not better then having a few content rich maps. We have to wait and see when they get around to unveiling what content HoT will have in that regard.

Odd, you describe the size of GW2 Guild Halls as making them more worthy relative to other expansion halls and yet here you say that size is meaningless.

Personally I have never seen a game release empty maps. Every one that I have seen has had mobs to fight, places to explore, etc. As someone for whom exploration is a major draw to this genre small maps are just plain less interesting than large ones.

Galen Grey.4709:

Lets stop claiming that what we know so far isnt worth the price because its far from true. What we know so far exceeds in scope of what other expansion of similar or slightly less price offer.

You do not get to decide what something is worth to other people. If someone does not find what we know so far to be worth the price then it is true for them. I for example, as stated above, do not consider what has been revealed so far to be worth the price. It is not worth a fraction of the price to me. That may change. It would take only a couple of things for me to be willing to spend hundreds of dollars on the expansion + gems.

And to clarify: I think that Anet’s business model for expansions is great. This is another example of their business model/sense being among the best in the industry in my opinion.

To me it means a game world being updated with periodic, or frequent, patches that actually add to or alter existing core content while perhaps expanding the game as well.

My hope is that the living story will continue in between expansions going forward. I also hope that the story telling is better in future seasons of the LS.