Asura What [Else] feat. [TMO]
http://www.twitch.tv/venom_1610
Live now.
(edited by Authority.6145)
Due to summer, we are going to play casually.
At the moment I am going to concentrate on
a.Recruiting individuals that fulfill the criteria and trying to help them to find a team.
b.Accept players who do not have a guild or a team and need to find a “shelter”.
For the time being, slots are open for all classes until we reach a specific amount of players.
PS: Roaster has been changed and new rule was added; must always represent when TPvPing.
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D/D was the most rewarding build – insane dps + squishiness
D/P was and is the most enjoyable build – blind + stealth + backstab.
S/D is sometimes a bit of both and sometimes none of that.
My opinion.
Unorthodox D/P
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlYmaP3bS5E/5Ex2jeuTiypwpGtTBXtKA-TsAg0CnIKSVkrITRyisFNoYZxsAA
Just posting it because maybe in the future it might be an option.
Q.Why runes of Lyssa?
A. Since you would never run out of initiative to perform “perma-stealth” or “perma-blind” and thus remove conditions you can use Withdraw to gain boon(s) or use it with your combo for mobility purposes (aggressive or defensive).
Lets say you are in mid fight and you can see an opening to the enemies close but you do not have shadow refuge on to get unnoticed. You can stealth, then rollbackwards switch to Shortbow, teleport to the enemy’s closepoint and decap.
Q.Why Shadow Step instead of Shadow Trap?
A.D/P is usually known for being in mid-close points most of the time. Thus Shadow Trap is more team-centric (tactical) where as Shadow Step is more class-centric. Sometimes you just want to go or reach a specific point in map. You do not have the option to change your mind after placing Shadow Trap in map.
Q.Hidden Killer or Executioner?
A.I believe that the more initiative regen means more backstabs so less need for autoattacks. .
Maybe you can help me with this but I would really love to have a build with Mace/Shied + Hammer.
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I have got three questions.
1.Why not 20 on Water and 20 on Arcana?
For example, what is wrong with this build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJArYhImgbxx5gjDIEFmwLIeYBNAHWUgDzAA-ToAg0CnICSFkLITQygsBNIY+B
2.Why Air Training instead of Aeromancer’s Alacitry?
Lets pretend X spell does 100 damage and has 10 seconds cooldown.
With Air Training (deals 10% more damage when attuned to air)
It will do 110 × 6 = 660 total damage within a minute.
With Aeromancer’s Alacitry (all your air weapon skills recharge 20% faster)
It will do 100 × 7.5 = 750 total damage within a minute
3.Why not put the trait Final Shielding in the Arcane Power Trait since you would be able to overuse it with its short internal cooldown?
1) 20 water 20 arcana is perfectly fine (that’s what I run), it’s a matter of preference between that and 10 water / 30 arcana
2) your reasoning about air cd reduction would be valid, if you were to stay in air attunement for a whole minute. However, considering air attunement recharge / fresh air 5s icd, which is the same cd as Lightning Strike, you would gain nothing damage wise (you would actually reduce your lightning strike and arcana spells damage by 10% when in air). RTL/Updraft cd reduction is not worth that trait (while Shocking Aura and the new buffed Lightning Touch would for d/d)
3) Final Shielding has a 75s cooldown, unless it is broken.
Ah I see. Thought Final Shielding’s CD was much lower than that.
Why Air Training instead of Aeromancer’s Alacitry?
Lets pretend X spell does 100 damage and has 10 seconds cooldown.
With Air Training (deals 10% more damage when attuned to air)
It will do 110 × 6 = 660 total damage within a minute.
With Aeromancer’s Alacitry (all your air weapon skills recharge 20% faster)
It will do 100 × 7.5 = 750 total damage within a minute
Is something wrong with my calculations?
Alacrity doesn’t affect electric discharge but air training does. The only cooldown reduction traits that are sometimes nice are water in staff and earth with focus imo, but even then theres usually something better you could take.
Your argument is more sound but I would still argue that being able to use Lightning Ride twice within a minute instead of once or 4 times if successful within a minute (16 seconds cooldown) instead of 3 times might be another option as well.
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I have got one question
1.What is the role of a Spiritmaster Condition Ranger in TPvP?
I have tweaked your BM build a bit.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fMAQRBHfxG2IRVidflnFodgo9QTSCTvHtiWt3VAUHM5zD-TkAg2CrIuRdj7GzNybs3sCB
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I have got one question.
1.Why not 20 on Water and 20 on Arcana?
For example, what is wrong with this build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fEAQJArYhImkbxx5gjDIEFmwLIeYBOAHWUkDzAA-ToAg0CnICSFkLITQygsBNKY+B
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Any thoughts on S/P builds? Are they just not viable at all with the current condi-heavy meta? I would trade FS/LS for head shot black powder any day.
My personal opinion post-patch is still that D/P is suicidal. I believe I can justify that if you require me to do so.
S/D builds are still viable. Not in the sense of pre-patch but in the sense that with Shadow Trap you are able to do great decaps and force the enemy team to send sometimes even two people to take care of you.
I was asking about S/P – seems like no one runs it – I’m assuming a big part of it is that it’s hard to land a full pistol whip? Still, sword 2,4,5 still make it seem pretty sexy to me.
Sorry. Missed the P in the S/P.
oh re-capping so its scoring for your team. i got you. but 45 secs on recharge doesnt seem that helpful…especially when it wont go thru walls…no?
I didn’t have any issues with teleporting with it today to be honest. Though I cant say whether they fixed it or not.
Any thoughts on S/P builds? Are they just not viable at all with the current condi-heavy meta? I would trade FS/LS for head shot black powder any day.
My personal opinion post-patch is still that D/P is suicidal. I believe I can justify that if you require me to do so.
S/D builds are still viable. Not in the sense of pre-patch but in the sense that with Shadow Trap you are able to do great decaps and force the enemy team to send sometimes even two people to take care of you.
what do u mean by decaps?
Decaping the enemy’s close point as many times as possible.
This is the kind of build I would want my mesmer friends to run with.I will probably play around with yours and talk about it with my friends and I will let you know if we tweaked it a bit just so we can get a feedback from you as well.
The two players above me are right. Other mesmers told me the same thing. Its combo doesn’t work well or it is frustrating to work.
That is the first thing I did with Shadow Trap as well.
I am still working on it since my build is different than yours; http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsYVlYmaPHdS5E/5Ey2jdqC5JPFk1Y1pgrsKA-TsAg0CnIKSVkrITRyisFNsYZxsAA
Personally I am not great with S/D and I need more games to be able to master it but Shadow Trap has gave me another reason to love it even more.
The disadvantage with my build in comparisons with other thieves S/D is that I will never be able to pressure as much vs close holders and even cap a point when they are there.
In terms of my role with that build I believe it is to
a.To decap and return to mid as soon as possible
b.Force the enemy team effectively to send two people to their close so I can return to mid as soon as possible.
Any thoughts on S/P builds? Are they just not viable at all with the current condi-heavy meta? I would trade FS/LS for head shot black powder any day.
My personal opinion post-patch is still that D/P is suicidal. I believe I can justify that if you require me to do so.
S/D builds are still viable. Not in the sense of pre-patch but in the sense that with Shadow Trap you are able to do great decaps and force the enemy team to send sometimes even two people to take care of you.
At Op. I played around with it a bit more.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR7flwzyqnTzoGZ9IxJFRH6oec9s7dSKa9rB-TgAAzCpI+S9lrJzXyvsfB
In terms of stats I think it looks solid.
Oh boy i’ve birthed a monster here. I just wanted the opinions of a few well known tournament engineers.
Shoulda known that people with no teams and no tournaments and no friends to play with would pop in to tell everyone how good they are and how they run the best secret builds. Now with flamethrower and elixer gun, the greatest utility skills ever!
So why does it seems you just created this thread to justify that an engineer is not viable anymore or that engineers are better playing necro at the moment?
Hybrid by definition is carrion or rampager amulet with a significant investment in power.
If you want to use sword and scepter your best bet is likely carrion amulet, shattering like a s.o.b.
Try 10-20-0-0-10 (30), sigils of energy, 2 lyssa, and 4 nightmare a base and decide for yourself whether or not you like it. I tried 30-20-10-0-10 and found it ok.
Why would he be using sword scepter as condi when he could get
confusion + blind + burning + torment (3.3 damage) from scepter torch not to mention removing condis by Cleansing Conflagration with 20% reduced cooldown from torch skills?
Not trying to sound a smart kitten just wondering why would any mesmer not play with scepter and torch and spec it the way it should be spec post-patch.
Please explain what exactly do you mean as a condi hybrid build; i.e what do you want to do in TPvP? More condi damage in team fights and less of a close holder or good amount of condi damage and more of a close holder?
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR7flwzyqnTzoGZ9IxJFRH6oec9s7dSKa9rB-TgAAzCpI+S9lrJzXyvsfB
If you would like me to explain everything I did with that let me know.
PS: I will look into it later since that is the first thing that came up in my mind reading your post.
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I think this has been the most challenging patch for the following reasons
Personal
Highlight of my first experience was getting feared once, using my shadowstep and getting feared again, returning back and getting feared for the last time. That brought up memories as a Thief being haunted by triple Elementalists team comps back in the day.
Second highlight was seeing a lot of classes melting down in such a fast-paced non-reactionary manner one after the other one. Specifically, when I saw one guard dropping in twenty or in thirty seconds (I can’t remember the exact time) I thought that if a bunker like that gets burned so easy and so fast, then it is no wonder I see the rest following the same way.
General Consensus
What I have realized after this patch is that an overpowered* class in a tournament environment is a class that is able to
a.duplicate it self and fulfill other roles equally well
b.force the rest of the classes to change their builds just for that one class.
and I would like to think most would agree with me as well.
On other matter, most of the players I have talked to were positive with the changes. For them it was refreshing to see new stuff coming into the TPvP scene including changing the traditional perspective that you always needed a Guardian to play in tournaments.
General Observation
However on the other side, the community as a whole including a couple of players that I play with, did not receive this patch positively at all.
Typical examples are the following;
“Mesmers got nerfed”
“Engineers are not needed anymore”
“Warrior’s cleansing Ire is completely a useless trait”
“Thief’s S/D got absolutely hammered”
“I am giving up my class and rerolling to a Necromancer”
that I quite frankly,find it overacting, even though I am confident that each player has got his own reasons and concerns regarding the matter.
For example, if I was an engineer my first reaction would be “Finally, I have got a great partner in crime (condition pressure) that complements me instead of substituting me”.
What I am trying to say is that it might be in some ways a Crisis of PvP Identity but it is really a crisis within community.
a) This is still a MMOrpg and in every single MMOrpg big changes happen. If you can’t handle big changes then you an MMOrpg is not for you.
c) Each patch is a class challenge; you gain something and you lose something but also a mental one; it challenges you to show character and overcome.
d) Investing and putting effort into your class does not only mean playing X amount of hours; it also means being aware of build diversity.
e) TPvP patches have always been about adapting and that includes every single thing; from changing weapon sets, to builds, to utilities and so on and so forth. If you are not willing to switch and adapt to different playstyles then there is no point in creating and playing any class.
f) There is no such thing as “balance” in any MMOrpg; not in the sense that the average gamer defines it as having each class being able to kill all classes in one vs one with the right spec. What “balance” I believe is, is that having classes countering each other out without ever having one class with one build countering them all or having classes synergizing well with other classes (aka taking a bunker warrior instead of a guardian because it synergizes well with that specific team comp).
My 2cents.
*Please kindly note that I am in no way implying that a Necromancer right now has become Godmode. My definition of what it means for a class to be overpowered is in the context of a team pvp environment and not in one versus one environments and I hope it does justice without sounding unreasonable
Do we know when they are going to fix this bug with the Trap?
Today is the last day. After that we won’t recruit anymore. One slot available for anyone playing a Mesmer.
*shadow trap is Godlike for TPvP. Incoming 24/7 close holders. So whatever build you guys you are trying right now Shadow Trap should always be there.
*kittenit it is bugged.
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I really do not think that Arena intended to do it like that.
The reason is simple;
By being able to shadow step back/teleport (sword #2) while being stunned is still a stunbreaker regardless whether you are still stunned while teleported back.
I didn’t see it mentioned yet, but if they are at all intelligent, they will simply re-implement the exact same mechanic as in gw1.
Basically, it boiled down to:
- You could leave a match early 1 time every hour without penalty. (like if you dc or you rage)
- the 2nd time in 1 hour gave you a 10 minute ban from all pvp missions. Logging out did not make it go away, you have to wait in-game for 10 minutes.
more info: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dishonorable
Explain to me how introducing punishment measures before fixing this broken record called solo que experience actually helps the game.
We hear you guys loud and clear! We definitely plan on mitigating the leaver issue with a form of punishment. I wont give details about what the punishment will be, but it should be enough to deter this form of behavior. Anything we add will be in addition to what happens now (loss and rating hit).
With all due respect, I will say once more the same things I have said when I first played Guild Wars 2;
If soloque (allowing it to be played with as a duo) is “fixed”;
1.Separating solo-duo quers from premades – 3 players together and above.
2.Restarting rating after one is being done.
3.Have one leaderboard for solo-duo quers and one for teams.
Then I would agree with introducing punishments.
Yesterday night I played a couple of tournaments with S/D. Regardless of whether it was a fresh air using D/P after patch straight away and enjoying the things that D/P is bringing with the new patch, I would advice most thieves to stick to S/D on tournaments until things settle down.
Double Necros or Necro+Engie are currently lethal combos in TPvP and it seems to me that until a new patch comes to tone things down, D/P is really suicidal. I would be probably using “Boon Slayer S/D” but I would have to talk with a couple more people to decided whether investing 30 on Trickery is more beneficial to the team (passing boons to the team every 21 seconds) or whether I should invest the ten points on critical strikes (20% damage when target is below 50% HP).
Just my 2cents of my experience playing both D/P and S/D yesterday for a couple of hours.
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Has the new weakness really changed things that drastically? Perhaps theres no answer yet and we’ll have to see how things flesh out.
But it seems to me that d/p and thief builds in general still suffer from the age old problem of needing to go full glass just to meet any form of viability in Tpvp.
Which, being something that Anet has literally admitted to, is kind of disappointing as I dont see how they addressed it with this patch. I dont see how the steal changes can address this.
My only hope is that it was indirectly addressed through other class changes where the meta is moving away from the necessity of burst (via weakness etc.) that you mentioned. But we can only speculate on that now and time will tell. Personally I don’t believe much has changed.
I haven’t jumped on my S/D yet to comment. I can’t really comment on the two “new builds” with D/P at the moment because double necros or tripple necros in tournament matches so far is not a good feedback to evaluate until I am able to find one team composition that I am personally feeling comfortable not only playing as a Thief but also a D/P Thief.
So far, what some other thieves told me is that the new torment is not such a “big deal”.
http://www.twitch.tv/qqtrooper34
Watch team paradigm without a guard + double necros vs any team with guardian.
So far I received the following information regarding two types of team comps with a Thief.
Thief as S/D
Guardian
Bunker Elementalist
Mesmer
Ranger
Thief as D/P
Guardian
DPS Elementalist
Greatsword Shatter Mesmer
Necromancer
I am wondering if there is another team comp I should consider. Thanks in advance.
One spot available for each profession: Mesmer, Necromancer, Engineer.
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This is the most experimental I can get with D/P. The concept was to fine a way to maintain boons on you, remove conditions and apply as much as possible perma stealth without losing 30 points on Critical Strikes.
Condi-Hate D/P
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlYmaPHdy5E/5Ex2jeuTeypwpG1TBZHLA-TsAg0CnIKSVkrITRyisFNKZVysAA
Overall, the problem with DP in terms of pushing it to the extreme for TPvP for me is that Trait of increasing your damage for overall 20% when below 50% HP.
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I actually liked the look and synergy of the build you posted on previous page:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlUmaPncy4E/5Ex2DfKUe6pgsjtTxVtKA-TkAg0CnIyRljLHTOycs5ssA
any reasons you moved away from it in particular? Ive never really went for D/P before, was having fun with my S/D pre patch, but good to hear jumper’s still using it.
The problem will all might stacking builds (max 15-17 stacks of might with dodge + steal) has always been the following;
1.If you play with two signets, then you need a stun breaker so by using Shadow Step you end up replacing Last refuge.
2. With new condition builds and new conditions, it is not about DPS anymore as a Thief; i.e a good necromancer will strip off that 15-17 stacks of might immediately.
3. Initiative Regen for D/P is way better by investing 20 or 30 points on Shadow Arts
Overall, Might-stacking is just really too dangerous to invest with how things are.It used to be very viable a long time ago where you would easily out-dps a typical glass cannon D/P Thief from my perspective..
The problem right now is to make a D/P build that will be able to be effective vs i.e two Necromancers but at the same time taking advantage of the new steal cooldown reductions.
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Also a D/P build that might be able to do better vs Necros.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsaVlUmaPHdy5E/5EymidqC5eYUOlS5pgsGLA-ToAg0CnIKSVkrITRyisFNsYZB
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Forgive my ignorance, but if right now I was to create a warrior I would do something like this;
0/30/20/20/0
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-sFwo;1RKkO0d4NL-60;9;5TJJ;228A08-02;2LRV4;2CoF2CoF25BMCan you explain to me what is wrong with it? From what I understand these are the advantages I see;
I’m not a fan of Leg Specialist anymore. It used to be my fave trait. The ‘randomness’ to it makes it unappealing to me. I try to stick to traits, weapons etc. that will perform on the spot as I require them to. There may be an instance where I need an immobolize but Leg Specialist is on CD. Moments like those give me a bad vibe.
Desperate Power is ok, I was testing it on patch day. I don’t like the concept of gaining more damage for being under a certain HP%. It forces me to save my heals so I gain that 20% but in reality, doing just that will probably cause me to lose the fight if I take a sudden burst.
Opportunist is good, synergizes well with Leg Spec.
I think without the +Crit damage from Discipline your damage may be sub par. And all you’re really gainign for that is an immob and more fury. But with Sig of Rage we already have Fury uptime near 100%. And longbow / Sword already provide Immobs. Not sure if the trade off is worth it.
Utilities are solid but I wouldn’t use Sig of Fury, you already have a ton of +crit chance and methods to gain adren.
Your build may be better suited for Hammer.
My 2c.
Thanks for the great feedback.
I hope you upload more TPvP Videos with your Warrior.
Lyssa and BoonManica dont sound to me to be a good idea…
a Necro with Corrupt Boons will kill you with the press of 1 button…
True. However,
A. Every build has a counter.
B. Thieves are becoming more “team players”;
- Passing 5 boons to the team every 21 seconds
- Rezzing players – Popping up Last Refuge more frequently + Basilisk Venom (activates all boons) + Blind from signet.
C. With post-patch notes, you just need to change the way you start off a fight and not waste all these boons (i.e activating Basilisk Venom + D/P Combo)
I will be sticking with this for a month or so just to see how far I am able to push it for the sake of fun. Thank you for the criticism and I am always up for it.
Would be nice if someone posted changes with S/D, preferably for TPvP.
Forgive my ignorance, but if right now I was to create a warrior I would do something like this;
0/30/20/20/0
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-sFwo;1RKkO0d4NL-60;9;5TJJ;228A08-02;2LRV4;2CoF2CoF25BM
Can you explain to me what is wrong with it? From what I understand these are the advantages I see;
1.Dealing 20% damage when below 50% health.
2.Apply 1 second of immobilize every time you cripple a foe (every 8 seconds from Sword #2).
3.Opportunist – Always gaining fury for 10 seconds every time you immobilize someone (from triggering Leg Specialist trait; see point 2, or from F1 Flurry).
4. Cleansing Ire – Gain adrenaline when hit – remove a condition for every bar of adrenaline spent
5.Adrenaline refill – Signet of Fury + Signet of Rage + Furious trait (critical hits grant triple adrenaline) + Cleansing Ire.
Maybe even applying different runes and sigils for more boon removal or more boons.
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This will be my official D/P Tournament Build.
BoonManiac D/P by Deathgod Ryuu
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlUmaPHdy5E/5Ey2jdqC5JvHk1YZWaFoJA-TsAg0CnIKSVkrITRyisFNoYZxkAA
Re-updated the initial post.
Recruiting sessions will close 1th of July. I am willing to hear from players that play Elementalist, Engineer, Necromancer and Mesmer. After that exceptions might happen depending who you know from the guild and on the feedback I receive.
I wish good luck once again to the people who have stayed with us and I hope they can become even better players with their new teams/guilds. You know who you are and you are more than welcome to comeback if things don’t work out.
Practiced times are now officially between 7-8pm UK Timezone and onwards.
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I am trying 10/20/20/0/20 as DP with Runes of Lysa just for fun.
this build got nerfed like crazy in the recent patch. is it even viable anymore? infiltrator return no longer stun breaks.
Well they made again some controversial changes as always.
On the bright side, I assume two type of builds for D/P
1. 0/30/0/20/20 for Might + Initiative regen build or
or allocating the traits and utilities for more defensive-sustain D/P style with Runes of Lyssa
2. 10/30/0/0/30 Might stacking build which might be going to be flavor of the month.
Either way 10 seconds of might instead of 5 is a huge advantage topping that up with reduced steal cool down.
I am not in game yet so I am just naively theory-crafting here.
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Interesting changes. I might switch to D/P and try this;
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlUmaPncy4E/5Ex2DfKUe6pgsjtTxVtKA-TkAg0CnIyRljLHTOycs5ssA
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Slots are open for Engineer and Mesmer.
3 more days and we shall finally see the new changes.
I regret getting those shattered wings. What a let down.