Guild Wars 2

Here is the wannabe-glad, wannabe bunker/damage version of D/P.

Please criticize it as much as possible because that would help me to twitch some traits or utilities (which I think needs to be changed too).

Soldiers Amulet.
Scholar Runes.
Sigil of Chill on Dagger.
Force on Pistol.
Fire on Bow.

Note: My instinct tells me that “bunker/damage” role/build (call it whatever you want) suits more with a sword/pistol

RedSpectrum.1975:

Oh Authority, I don’t know why I did’nt clear this up sooner, by my D/D build isnt glass cannon 10/30/30/0/0…whoopsies. Sorry if any out there got snapped in half

Haha. No worries. What type of build is it then? Do I need to change anything from the tips given in my main post due to that?

Arganthium.5638:

Edit: Added in a link to Authority’s thread about countering other professions, looks great.

Was meant to post to your thread. Apologies for the late reply. And thanks a lot.

By the way this build looks intriguing.

PvP Lifesteal Thief
http://www.gw2build.com/builds/pvp-lifesteal-thief-updated-4-02-2013-pvp-pistols-lifesteal-4861.html

There was a youtube video that inspired me to make an effort to create a “support” build as a thief. Still not done with it because I am still playing around with runes and amulet just to figure out the best possible stats for my vision of “support” as well as utilities, ect.

Bunker/Damage has been posted on the d/p theory crafting so check it out too and let me know what you think.

Oni.5429:

I think one of the most amusing things on these forums is watching these horrible hotjoiner eles trying to convince top players that they’re bad because said top players are calling eles overpowered.

The class is absolutely disgusting and does not require massive skill to be extremely powerful. All it needs is the right build.

You can be a r30 bunker ele with little to no real experience and still pose an absurd threat to the enemy team by just pushing their close.

‘’We instantly die to thieves’’

Yeah, that’s because you have the wrong build. Eles wont ‘’instantly die’‘, even when they’re up vs a thief, a mesmer and a warrior from stealth burst together with the correct build. They’ll be able to rtl+blink back to mid, reset their health and push close again whenever they feel like it.

Trash class that makes pvp a chore to play.

+1.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyNZKFHIGEk

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Authority.6145:

Dagger/Dagger Glass Cannon Approach.

VS Bunker

Elementalist

• Elite – Thieves Guild.
• Use Cloak and Dagger at start to get behind them.
• Remember not to open up with standard Basilisk Venom + Steal combo. They will survive it.

You can’t really open with Basilisk if you have the T-Guild.

This is a hit-and-miss using D/D. The effective approach is S/D since you can keep them disabled for a long time in addition to Basilisk. The key is Tactical Strike and Sleight of Hand, plus the boon removal capability of Flanking Strike.

Thanks for noticing my error. Will re-edit it and add more info from your post.

By the way I have been meeting condi rangers. Anything we could do against them with any build?

Also against Rifle Warriors [WTF] information would be appreciated.

pitrelli.5361:

I was really struggling and getting bored with d/d glass cannon build, just hated waiting on cooldowns and being useless after the initial burst so switched to dagger/pistol 0/10/30/30/0………… It rocks.

Fights last sooo much longer but its great, most fun I’ve had on my Thief. Best thing about this build is you can roam freely and harrass small groups of opposition.

That is the thing. I have felt the same way. Especially the fact of feeling useless after the initial burst.

What runes and amulets are you using for that build?

Well Taril I think I found the ideal build for what I was talking about.

Basically it gives me 23k Life, 2.9k Armour, 3.1k Base damage. The only downside is crit rate which is 18percent. However that is not of a concern since I got the hidden killer trait!

Will post more info about it later on.

Taril.8619:

Authority.6145:

What traits, runes and amulet I need for a purely precision build (so my auttoattacks hit as hard as possible?)
Is there a build set up (traits, runes and amulet) to balance precision with defence (hp/touchness/ect)?

Highest auto-attacks:
30 VI, IX, ??
30 III, X, XI
0
0
10 IV

Using Berserker Amulet + Divinity Runes. Though while it would maximise damage dealt through auto-attacks there’s no survivability.

For a more defensive build with high crits I’d say something like:

0
30 III, VI, XI
10 IV
30 III, IX, X
0

10 III
20 III, VI
20 IV, V
20 III, IX
0

0
30 III, VI, XI
30 IV, V, XI
0
10 IV

Berserker amulet and Divinity/Scholar/Eagle runes (Build/Runes to playstyle)

Thanks for this! Will test them later on. One quick question.

If I wanted to purely focus on base damage with average/low/decent crit rate how would I go about it (runes, traits, amulet)?

Sorry about this but I am currently saving info on a notepad >.>

I am going to get a lot of hate with this (justifiably) but after trying it a couple of times in SPvP I would like to share a couple of personal points;

I consider D/P to be a purely defensive build/support due to the following.

• It does not maximize Stealth Tactics as D/D does with C/D.
• It is better investing in mobility (sigil) and non-stealth survivability (withdraw) as well as HP amulets/runes.
• Autoattacks should be heavily focused with precision in this build since the backstab combo acts as a finisher and not as an opening. Therefore investing in Precision amulets/runes.
• Shortbow is not ideal to use with D/P due to being low on initiative. P/P should replace it.

I am still mindkitten trying to work out what are D/P true strength for an all around encounter experience in SPvP (and not having to change everything in each match).

So I have got two questions;

What traits, runes and amulet I need for a purely precision build (so my auttoattacks hit as hard as possible?)
Is there a build set up (traits, runes and amulet) to balance precision with defence (hp/touchness/ect)?

Rayya.2591:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Rayya.2591:

Authority.6145:

Builds countering our enemies.
D/D Approach.
VS Mesmers that use clones (unknown build)

• Work your way through clones with C/D.
• Use 3 seconds to determine the real Mesmer.
• Use short bow aoe spam to nuke the clones.

Doesen’t work vs condition staf mesmers
you get hit stealthed by staf auto attack , if you destroy clones with your CnD , you get confusion

Well then? You can contribute, 1 person giving their personal encounters isnt enough :p

Against staf mesmers i sugest (Hide in shadows – shadowstep /blinding powder / shadaow refuge – basilik vennom) – at least 10 points in Shadow arts for condition removal on stealth
Initiate with shadowstep – 1 autoattack chain -1 hs -CnD – Shadowreturn
Hide in shadows -basilik – steal +HS , dodge,Death blossom , dodge- blinding powder- backstab – try to finish
if you fail shadow refuge.

Can you re-edit it this way because I am having a difficult time reproducing it.

VS Conditional

Mesmers

• Hide in shadows/Blinding powder/Shadow refuge – Basilisk Venom
• At least have 10 points in Shadow arts for condition removal on stealth

Taril.8619:

Authority.6145:

Updated the initial post.

Can someone tell me the runes that they use for D/P and also utilities + elite? Preferably for a SPvP situation.

I personally use Vampirism Runes (Extra healing + damage works well with Withdraw’s low cooldown)

Heal skill: Withdraw (Hide in Shadows if up against a lot of conditions, as my build lacks condition removal elsewhere)

Utilities I run are: Infiltrator’s Signet (Signet of Shadows for WvW)/Blinding Powder/Shadow Refuge.

Elites are swapped around a lot, Basalisk Venom can create some breathing room and allow for a stealth to be set up, Daggerstorm helps against both ranged and crowd control (Only used for damage in WvW) and Thieves Guild helps against tough targets like bunkers and such (Shouldn’t be used vs x/D Thieves though as they can CnD them)

Thanks for the info. Also do you know how I should go about with a venom build d/p? Like traits and the rest?

TheGuy.3568:

Authority.6145:

This is my honest opinion so if you get offended I don’t mind. The way I look at it is this;

If you rely on perma stealth chain, that is your problem. It is not a general thief’s problem because another thief over-abusing a “spam” (either hs or stealth) does not reflect the standard game play of a thief. Don’t confuse what most thieves do with what a thief can do .

What reflects the standard nature of the profession is adapting not relying on skill exploitation. Thief is a profession that will constantly need you to adapt. If you haven’t played other mmorpgs as a thief, you should know that through Guild Wars 2 by now.

I don’t mind the change because I have started to rely less on skill exploitation and more to adaptive reactions.

And before I forget, there is a difference between nerf and adaptation. If there is a spam that needs to be changed, that is called balancing it out not nerfing it.

Define skill exploitation please.

Becuase among the non “spam” builds that wont be touched are. P/D hit 5 spam 1 from ranged when they close the gap do it again. DD Death Blossom Spam 3 hit a stealth spam 3. S/P pistol whip spam. How about PP unload spam.

Shockingly the only builds that require more than 2 skills to use or where the other skills are actually useful are D/P and S/D.

What I find funny is that even a backstab combo with DD requires more skills to pull off then the majority of our builds. If we cut the BS most of our builds are spam. The worst don’t even involve stealth.

The standard nature my fellow thief is literally to exploit single moves.

Edit:

Different topic altogether but the real question is how is stacking stealth going to work?

Apologies for the late reply. My views have been changed since experimenting with other builds and increasing my rating in SPvP. So my points expanded will be countering the point in my initial post.

I used to see a lot of HS spam (doing it to the enemy with full health) but HS is just more than that and I understood that clearly when I switched builds. Plus HS spam doesn’t work at all in SPvP as you increase your rating. I also agree with your other statements.

• However, mobility “boost” for me is not welcomed. I don’t consider mobility to be an issue at all right now as thief since we can adjust our set up to maximize mobility.
• Touching our stealth assumingly means re-adjusting trickery (which I am extremely uncomfortable and stubborn to do at the moment since having 15 points in trickery is a must for me (3 extra initiatives are way too fundamental)
• Thus, in the long run it will affect X/D users or DPS/Stealth users which is the main nature of a thief. High DPS, Stealthiness and Squishiness.
• Thus cooling down your DPS traits is a no go.

Note: To answer to another player on why a 5m permenant stealth skill with one minute cooldown in Aion was and is superior to chain stealth is simple; ganking mass enemies without feeling the heat and getting away easily without feeling the heat.

As for me, I am already seeing signs in being forced to change my D/D (being forced is debatable but D/D in an all around perspective in SPvP is not viable since in higher and higher SPvP ratings enemies are not as squishy anymore)

Ideally, I would have liked; a boost on an attack speed trait or interlinking attack speed with an essential trait and introducing more cc control. An appropriate paralyzer on our dagger procing with 1-10 percent success and not the 15 percent stun duration. Or something that will have us invulnerable for 3 seconds.

In all honesty I think the way our traits are and the patterns we take (what sigils and utilities to use) need to be fixed somehow because every time I change slightly in there I am feeling I am sacrificing something which I am not sure it is even worth doing so and it gets tiresome this “sacrificing” adjustment instead of feeling that it is something to adapt.

I am probably and ignorantly theorycrafting but that is how I feel/see about it at the moment.

Updated the initial post.

Can someone tell me the runes that they use for D/P and also utilities + elite? Preferably for a SPvP situation.

Loading.4503:

Try switching your offhand dagger and mainhand dagger around >.>

I did and it said Error: You got rick rolled.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Authority.6145:

RedSpectrum.1975:

Ok well from a D/D backstabbers P.O.V. To fight mesmers, use CnD on their clones to to work your way to the real one, assuming you know where the real one is. Alternatively, use those 3 seconds to find the real one, then use the step above. Patience is key to a non glasscannon baskstab build. OF COURSE WITH THE NEXT PATCH this will require some tweaking and sorry, I have trouble with D/D bunker eles. Whenever I am about to win they RLT to the other side of the map

How do you start off against a bunker ele? Do you know the build that mesmers generally use?

The mesmers im referring to are the ones that use they clones to confuse you while they hide behind their army (dont know the actual build) Glasscannon mesmers are a little trickiersicne their clones are made to burst you down so finding ones to CnD off of is a bit difficult. So for a glass cannon mes ( if I know they are gc) I open up with B venom steal CnD backstab and that brings them down before they realize their true potential. As for bunker eles, For an elite I recommend TG since that adds extra support albeit for a short time. The reason bunker classes are a thief’s worst nightmare is because they can outlast us for much longer periods of time. So I recommend attacking from behind at the start, DO NOT use BV and steal to open up, they not only will survive it, but will heal (which the seem to do every 2 seconds-_-) and now you are down two utilities. BUT if you are using BV and you get them down to low health, you can use that plus steal to finish them off once and for all. <—- personal exp
Edit: also for mesmers, dodge forward not away when it comes to phantasms and for ele -ahem- DODGE ALOT but no reckless dodging, that stuff gets you killed
-cough- this is when a sword use tells us what they do in this scenario-cough-

Thanks a lot. Tried to summarize your points. Will re-edit it tomorrow.

RedSpectrum.1975:

Ok well from a D/D backstabbers P.O.V. To fight mesmers, use CnD on their clones to to work your way to the real one, assuming you know where the real one is. Alternatively, use those 3 seconds to find the real one, then use the step above. Patience is key to a non glasscannon baskstab build. OF COURSE WITH THE NEXT PATCH this will require some tweaking and sorry, I have trouble with D/D bunker eles. Whenever I am about to win they RLT to the other side of the map

How do you start off against a bunker ele? Do you know the build that mesmers generally use?

RedSpectrum.1975:

Do you just want bunker ele or multiple classes? Irregardless I am interested in this thread, I hope people put suggestions for multiple thief builds instead of “Lol 4 warrurs use infiltrt0urs strike with sord” What if I dont use the sword?

Multiple classes. I hope so too.

Builds countering our enemies.

I want to make a list of different popular builds our enemies use and how the thief can counter them. For instance, bunker Elementalists.

Hope the thief community helps me with this one.

Dagger/Dagger Glass Cannon Approach.

VS Bunker

Elementalist

• Not applicable/viable at the moment. It is a hit or miss. Stealth affected by next patch.
• Use Cloak and Dagger at start to get behind them.
• Remember not to open up with standard Basilisk Venom + Steal combo. They will survive it.

VS N/A

Mesmer that use clones

• Work your way through clones with C/D.
• Use 3 seconds to determine the real Mesmer.
• Use short bow AOE spam to nuke the clones.
• Tick off Show Npc Names from options and tick Show Always Player Names (clones do not have a name while the real Mesmer has a red name above it)

VS Conditional

Mesmers

• Hide in shadows/Blinding powder/Shadow refuge – Basilisk Venom
• At least have 10 points in Shadow arts for condition removal on stealth

VS Glass Cannon

Mesmers

• Open up with Basilisk Venom + Steal + Cloak and Dagger + Backstab.

Necromancers

• Evade their marks in order to not only break the marks but take no damage
• Switch to short bow if they go into plague form.

Rangers

• Try to C/D their pet to get behind them
• Use gap closers techniques

Warriors

• Kite them to death until you feel confident of burning them down.
• Maintain a distance away to avoid 100 Blades; Whirlwind Attack; and negate Bladetrail.

Dagger/Pistol Glass Cannon Approach.

VS Bunker

Elementalist

• Elite – Thieves Guild.

VS Glass Cannon

Ranger

• Open with Shadow Shot + BP + HS + BS + Stomp

X/D Thieves

• Open up with Shadow Shot.
• Stand in Black Powder if they use utility/heal to stealth to reduce the risk of stealth attacks.

X/P Thieves

• Use Blind to hamper Shadow Shot and Heartseeker
• Try to stealth after them

Warrior

• Maintain a distance away to avoid 100 Blades; Whirlwind Attack; and negate Bladetrail.
• When on the offensive, use Shadow shot and Black Powder to reduce incoming damage.

Sword Dagger Glass Cannon Approach

VS Bunker

Elementalist

• Very effective since we can keep them disabled for a long time in addition to Basilisk
• The key is Tactical Strike and Sleight of Hand, plus the boon removal capability of Flanking Strike.

Need more guilds to be listed.

This is my honest opinion so if you get offended I don’t mind. The way I look at it is this;

If you rely on perma stealth chain, that is your problem. It is not a general thief’s problem because another thief over-abusing a “spam” (either hs or stealth) does not reflect the standard game play of a thief. Don’t confuse what most thieves do with what a thief can do .

What reflects the standard nature of the profession is adapting not relying on skill exploitation. Thief is a profession that will constantly need you to adapt. If you haven’t played other mmorpgs as a thief, you should know that through Guild Wars 2 by now.

I don’t mind the change because I have started to rely less on skill exploitation and more to adaptive reactions.

And before I forget, there is a difference between nerf and adaptation. If there is a spam that needs to be changed, that is called balancing it out not nerfing it.

the same Columba ranger in aion?

https://forums.na.aiononline.com/na/member.php?u=5229

Please tell me he is that person. I am laughing just thinking about it.

I want to use your initial post for my blog because it has inspired me to write about a topic. Is that alright with you Arganthium?

Drawing Guy.3701:

Authority’s post is the classic 3-hit-combo glass cannon thief build. I’ve had a thief do 24k (6.2k steal, 7k CnD, 12k backstab) on my glass cannon Warrior with that build. I wouldn’t use that in PvE, but at this current time it rules supreme in PvP/WvW. When they turn off culling, I do expect that this build made with zero survival options (past the two single target holds) will take some changing since people will finally be able to see them. That’s happening in 2 weeks, so enjoy it while you can.

And why would I enjoy it for 2 weeks?

Also why are you sharing your tears as a glass cannon warrior to a glass cannon thief? What happend? Couldn’t kill a thief in 1.5 seconds? Life is hard?

Interlink passive attack speed or movement speed with one trait.

Introduce paralyzer 7-10 percent to apply on one dagger.

I had to re-edit so here you go.

Actually dont copy that. I completely kittened it up.

Sucks like hell. Bring back spirit map.

Sensational post.

I hope when I die they will talk about me in such a lengthy manner as you did with GW2.

badddddddd trooollllllllling is bad.

Xsorus.2507:

This games stealth is vastly superior to every other games stealth..

You mean superior to a 5 minute perma stealth?

@Spitu
Learn to differentiate serious post from non serious post.

Thief: Impossible to counter because stealth is broken. That petrifying 45 seconds cd elite needs to be removed.

So you want us to be dotted, kitted, aeo spammed the hell out of us, and in your defense of balancing we should reach someone and kill him with autoattacks. Go it.

But wait back stabbing is easy because in PvP the target stays rooted in one spot, always facing us on front.

What.

/slitshiswritst.

I think what they should remove is people like you who can’t adapt or change their build to deal with certain professions that are most likely to appear in SPvP over others or finds balance issues always an excuse of not being able to deliver his class effectively every time he dies.

Names – Deathgod Ryuu
Profession – Thief
Gaming background – Too long to care right now.
Age – 18+
Schedual to play- Mostly 7-8pm onwards on week days and varies on weekends.
Motivation – High
Wath can you bring to guild – I prefer my game to talk than me typing it.
How do you deal with loosing – Losing is not the issue. As long as after each defeat there is a smal or lengthy convo about it I am fine with it.

Bumping for the message board length.

Dominus.4153:

Guild: This War is [OURS]
Region: NA
Activity: High, almost every night around 10:00 PM CST; we focus primarily on PvP including duels/practice in spvp, regular tpvp groups, organized tpvp teams that require a tryout, and also a little WvW.
Contacts: Vanity.6058, Dominus.4153, Kelevra.1293
Website: Visit our website at http://ours.guildlaunch.com

Thanks. Added.

Krizzy.6950:

Fenga Papit [FAP] NA
Small guild only accepting people who prove their worth. (sounds bad but quality>quantity)
Contact – Leet Magi Karp or Steez in game

Added.

What is your rank? Unless you reach 30-40 minimum you are stuck with the “hell”. That is a fact.

And it is much harder to start your rank grind successfully from now than it was a couple of months ago for various reasons.

So what I would really advise you is to at least try to have one or two people that daily spvp and build your relationship from there. Try to respond to spvp guild recruits in map chat or find some that are listed in here.

When you start improving your communication with these 2 or 3 people try to seek players through tournies or making lfg statements in mapchat with that small group of yours.

You can count me out because I am a baddie and disrespected.

I respect Big Playasaurus. I will inform him about it and let you know.

kittenick all of those. Be right back. Rerolling.

SniffyCube.6107:

I’ve played against most of the guilds in here on my warrior

all decent guilds, good luck recruiting guys!

/bump

Thanks for the bump.

I hope people have started joining spvp guilds with that list.

Updated it again. Please check for errors or typos and inform me about them.

Django.5923:

Guild: How To Blow Up An Egg [BomB]
Region: EU
Activity: Almost every day. (currently not playing because of heavy lags of 2 members since the update)
Contacts: write me a pm, but we are not recruiting. ^^
Website: No website. We are a guild with 6 members and discuss our stuff directly ingame and/or in TS.

We have our core team (as you may think of our number of 6 people), so we don’t recruit.

Done.

Boot.7368:

Dear Authority.6145,

You have misspelled (probably on purpose due to the nature of the word) the guild’s name. So just to clarify the issue. The guild name is JlZZ IT with tag – [JlZZ] (with a lower case L and everything else in capitals).

Rechanged it.

TrustyTurkey.1653:

You should definitely copy-paste the list from Reddit onto here. It’s probably better to have it all here anyways. Having said that…

Guild: Our Team is Garbage [Garb]
Region: NA
Activity: Almost every night around 8:00 PST
Contacts: Just send me a PM, or try talking with Xenos, Apollo or Snuki.
Website: None, but you can visit our respective Twitch pages to see if we’re streaming.

I’m not sure if this is a list of guilds that are recruiting, or if it’s simply a list of active guilds, but we’d fit the 2nd option. We’ve been hosting trials for the past couple weeks and we now have a fairly consistent core team, so yeah, feel free to put us down as active.

Will do that. Main post re-edited again. Thanks for the response.

leashmaygoss.2140:

Booty Bakery [yumy]

Who to contact?: leashmaygoss.2140
How active is it?: Daily.
Requirements: Communication, great game sense, mechanical, mature, friendly etc.
VoIP: We use Mumble & TS3.
Where are the members mainly from?: North America & Asia.
Other games played: CS:GO, SC2, LoL. Guild is more GW2 oriented.

If you want more infos just ask.

Added and thanks for the info.

Kugron.5128:

sixteen and pregnant [buMp] NA

Same for you too. Quoting so you can receive the notification.

EaGrimdarK.7849:

Reddit is for fgts.

But for the sake of GW2 I will contribute:

I cant post on Reddit since I never made the mistake of making an account there but if one of you kids wants to add these guild names to the list that would be grand.

Waste Management and Disposal[WMD] sPvP

Necros In Excess Nexus N X S[NXS] Necros only

Both are NA.

Who to contact, Activity level, ect.

Initial post re-edited.

Larynx.2453:

www.reddit.com/r/gw2esports

Revive that kitten.

Anyways, I’m surprised there’s more than 5.

Why are you surprised?

List updated for EU and NA.