Guild Wars 2

Remove stealth. In fact remove stealth for only the thief thief and let everyone else have stealth.

Let me have the damage output of a real assassin instead.

Feel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJyLRi6TmSE

To summarize,

So you don’t want a thief excelling in DPS.
So you don’t want a thief excelling in mobility.
You don’t want a thief excelling in survivability.

Short version;

You clearly don’t want to have a thief. You want to have your own little version of a wet towel thief. You probably want him to get kited to death while you are in your airplane dropping bombs on him.

I will also make a post regarding the viability of a mesmer.

For the time being, I am pretty sure this thread will lead “If you are a Mesmer reroll to a Necromancer”.

Warriors are popping up and players are rerolling from their mesmers. Guess we have got many players that want to do things easy cheesy fotm.

Feels good playing D/P for fun.

Re-work weapon sets (reduce) and weapon skills so classes can be more unique. If someone literally spends one whole day with all classes and all weapon sets I am pretty sure he will smash his head on a wall.

More clarity in general.

Can someone please summarize the actual changes regarding warriors in TPvP? What do those changes mean practically?

Thanks in advance.

After playing 10 tournaments overall this will be my personal solo-duo tournament build.

Inspired by OP
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR7flwzipnVTnGZ9IxJFQX6oec9tXdSKU9rB-TsAgyCuI+S9l7LzXyisFN+Y9xWAA

By the way I am going to use this build since I am going to start playing a Mesmer for fun.

Adjusting your build
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR7flwzipnVTnGZ9IxJFQX6oUc9tT6hqT9rB-TsAgyCuI+S9l7LzXyisFN4Y9xWAA

There are only a few twitches I might need to do for my personal taste. Feel free to ask me on anything.

Winter did you update your build already?

I am going to include now my main Pve build.

Pistol-Pistol goes to Pve!
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYEQNAqaVlYmaPnXz5E/5Ex2DgmTe69gsi1saFoJA-jUyAYLIqCAZBiKAm8KiGbVsIas6aMlLRUtBvIa1SBExYA-w

Also because I am going to start playing other classes in soloque tournament, I am going to be adding my favorable builds. I am going to include a Mesmer build soon.

QtHman.6502:

snip

So explain to me from the top lvl pvp why S/D Thief is superior to other classes and whats its contribution to the team in comparison to other classes?

Make me a spread sheet aka Aoe Damage, Raw Damage, Burst Damage, Condition Damage, Chance-to-one-shot a class, On going condition removal, Returning conditions, Might stacking; basically the list I made on page 3 post 6.

And also pay attention to the person who quoted me and I clarified things for him.

QtHman.6502:

There are some teams/comps that take skills to play. And there are some players who would rather have it easy all the time and play FOTM classes.

Which teams/comps take skills to play? And which players have it easy playing FOTM?

Because you are of the opinion that those classes are imbalanced? Classes that have trouble dealing with something will complain about it sometimes they complain to complain but in this case I personally don’t believe that true.

No because those classes cannot be compared to an S/D Thief. And I already stated why far too many times. I never mentioned anything about them being imbalanced in this thread.

So I am really sorry that I am not that delusional to think for a second that I am in the same state with an elementalist, a mesmer and an engineer and I should sit back and wait for them to dictate my own nerfs because an S/D thief annoys them.

Kitten please.

Sure class diversity is a great thing but you are not actually trying to say that running d/p is superior in a tournament game over d/p? 90% of the thief’s runs s/d and that is not what i would call class diversity.

You stated that some thieves are thought to be really good because of the build and not the skill. You clearly mentioned, that because of S/D build others think they are godlike when its the build.

I replied back telling you that you are completely wrong. In each meta with different weapon sets, some players excel and others decide to be on their old weapon set for their own reasons.

Also I if you want to talk about skill again then go back and summarize every single example I brought up regarding the intelligent play.

But if you really want to argue with me over this whole “easy mode should be punished” with S/D then I can gladly make a list adding punishment for all classes.

Because of the Necromancer the S/D thief shines even more as explained in posts above me. And I do question the knowledge of a player suggesting to run cc warriors in tournaments. At this point there is a clear “strongest” composition that dominates competitive PvP scene.

Necromancer and a S/D thief share nothing in common. A necromancer and an engineer do for the obvious reasons.

Teams will pick up a comp with an S/D thief because of tactical reasons. Just like teams pick up a CC Warrior for tactical reasons. Just like other teams might consider (soon or in the future) to pair up a CC Warrior with a D/P Thief for tactical reasons or try to fit in a role for a D/P thief.

We are still in point zero because the fact remains that if you break down S/D thief and compare it to other classes and what those classes bring to the team, you will realize what a completely load of BS your argument is.

And for the last time, if you want skill and balance, like I said, bring everything to the state of Warrior. I personally do not want that because there is no reason not to have specific roles for specific classes and there is no reason not to have classes and builds countering each other and canceling out every type of “meta”. That is balance; having a meta is not.

RaZaC.1963:

If you do not wish to listen to complaints of other classes then read Nyqwist his post on the previous page. He plays d/p thief on a competitive level and has a fair opinion of how stupid s/d is in its current state.

I already responded back to all the people that put forward and claimed that either S/D Thief is OP or that S/D Thief is a must or without S/D Thief they can’t play competitively. I made clear points on what makes a S/D Thief strong and what doesn’t as well as refuting their initial claims (see first sentence)

I never replied because an engineer, a mesmer and an elementalist specifically said some things and specifically requested heavily nerfs. That only added up to the irony and hypocrisy of those specific classes asking for specific nerfs on a Thief.

nyqwist.2360:

…
Before this last major patch (June 25th), personally, I did actually enjoy the game a lot. The only thing pre-patch that I felt like was over the top were the Sword/Dagger thief and is also what I would like to post about, since I am playing as one. The ”balance” last patch did not really change anything.
…

Most thieves either rerolled or went back to D/P and started doing World vs World because they don’t enjoy the playstyle of an S/D, out of pride/ego/calligitwhateve you want.

No thief, including my self, defend the playstyle of S/D. But at the same time that was the exact same thing when we were using D/D and then D/P showed up. It is the same circle.

Others stayed and excelled in S/D.Build variety is great because it brings new players that excel in specific builds. You won’t find a thief who excels in every single Thief build. That is the way it should be.

If there was no balance patch and no Necromancer shifting meta and thus no CC Warrior, then I would be the first one to state objectively that S/D Thief is too strong not to have. Now there is a variation with team comps and there is still a bit of time to experiment more (bringing a CC Warrior or bringing a D/P Thief or bringing them both).

With your logic I can safely call out that every single top tier shattered mesmer has been carried by AI and build. We can do this train for every single one-shot build of every single class since day one.

RaZaC.1963:

@Authority.6145 & Lordrosicky.5813

The both of you are probably doing better in tournaments since last patch. Either you play at a level where S/D thief is played badly (Is such a thing possible?) or you play it yourself and refuse to see how stupid low the skill sealing is for the ridiculous amount of rewards it gives. The problem with S/D thiefs is, is that they are impossible to punish for mistakes due to their teleports and constant evades.

I don’t do tournaments anymore because I don’t have time to invest on a Team as well as other reasons like playing a game and feeling that 75% is build and 25% skill where anybody can pick a faceroll build or super abusive and can play with it regardless of practice. You could have the best D/P thief out there in tournaments and his contribution will be less than a decent/average S/D thief though I would like to think that it might be possible to see D/P thieves countering S/D thieves soon or in the future.

In terms of build I was playing a variation of S/D-Shortbow and after two weeks I came to the conclusion like every singe thief comes with this specific S/D-S/D; that it is successful if played like it is suppose to played and traited as it is suppose to be traited; a rigid formula of efficiency.

Right now when I solo-que I am always on my D/P.

I understand clearly what the strong points are with S/D but I will refuse to let a mesmer, an elementalist and an engineer talk about how strong S/D thief is and what nerfs it needs.

If you want to make a list of what classes contribute to the team in this current meta as a whole I am 100 percent sure S/D thief will be last.

Ultima.8673:

i am kinda bored to answer you

So lets sum up again in team fights,

a.A class that can disengage is stronger that a ranged class that continually engage.
b.A class with no raw damage, no burst damage, no aoe damage and no condition damage but sustained damage on a single target is stronger than a ranged class that applies aoe and condition pressure on the whole team.

Also,

S/D is not D/P so no need to talk about stealth when S/D does not uses stealth but teleport and stealth is only used to interrupt an enemy rezzing someone, an enemy in a downed state or an enemy who is about to die and wants to escape or use a heal, if we break it down the rotation an S/D does during a team fight. Thus, there is nothing abusive with S/D in terms of stealth and the only stealth abuser is D/P with 30 on SA.

Best mobility? I think I have already clarified that S/D thieves are dropping or will considerate dropping Shadow Trap after the timer introduced. Don’t forget to explain to me how is it possible an S/D thief with no Short-bow to have the best mobility in game since most classes are able to go from point A to point B faster than a S/D Thief.

And if you want me to add Shadow Trap to the equation lets see how much ground an S/D can cover in 5 minutes and compare it with other classes.

In terms of aoe-and-conditions spam I clearly said that an S/D Thief spends most of his time disengaging, condition cleansing and evading/dodging than actually producing damage. If you break it down the bottom line is not even “sustained” damage.

Also please make me a list so we can compare the S/D Thief’ contribution to the team with other classes in every angle possible (support, dps, aoe, conditions, heals, boons)

S/D Thief is strong because akittens best it is an effective nuisance; like trying to kill a mosquito with your finger. S/D Thief is strong not because you play right but because that particular team has made it clear what is the specific role of that specific class build including belonging to a specific team comp.

Now stop typing as if not having an S/D Thief on your team comp means instantly your chances of winning are greatly less.

I would be bored too if I couldn’t refute any of those points.

Henqquli.5078:

Authority.6145:

Condition removal – On going condition removal. It is pointless to use a utility on a 40-50 seconds cooldown to remove 3 conditions if the other classes can simply re-apply

S/D number 2 removes condition when re-activated..

I am comparing it with other classes and not on its own.

Dirame.8521:

Authority.6145:

When did teams stop playing double elementalist again? And you did make a post on forum stating that an S/D thief needs a nerf because because YOU used to be an aggressive far-pointer. After the nerfs you are still here asking for more nerfs.

An elementalist asks for nerfs on a thief as if the thief can 100-0 that class or as if the thief is on the same “balance spread sheet” as an elementalist. Want to compare what an elementalist brings to the team with an S/D thief just to show you how ridiculous your justified complains are?

Lets look at this in another way,

What does S/D do better than other classes?*

Aoe damage? None.
Raw damage? Why would you play it if it didn’t have damage?
Burst damage? None.
Getting one-shotted? Absolutely not.
Condition damage? None.
Condition removal? Shadow Step
Returning conditions? None.
Might-stacking? When Stolen
Self-sustained boons? When Stolen
Self-rezing skill? None.
Rezing an ally while he is downed? Shadow Refuge
Fear, Knockback? When Stolen
Kicking off the point close holders? None.
Holding a point 1v2? Not even worth typing.
Close-point holder? Not even worth typing.
Mobility superiority? Shadow Trap, Infiltrator’s Arrow, Shadowstep, infiltrator’s signet
Stability? When Stolen or using Lyssa
Being the best far-point contester? Not even close.
Passing/sharing boons with the team? None.
Supporting the team with heals? None.

Corrected to be fair and less one-sided. Don’t get me wrong, I’m an advocate for keeping S/D thieves the way they are but you have to stick with the facts and not leave holes in your argument.

Condition removal – On going condition removal. It is pointless to use a utility on a 40-50 seconds cooldown to remove 3 conditions if the other classes can simply re-apply the same condition (s).

Raw damage – I meant similar to Warrior on GS, Mesmer on GS.
Burst damage – As in D/P Thief, 100b Warrior, Shattered Mesmer, S/D Elementalist; using a combo to bring out an extremely burst combo.

Rezing an ally – I meant using a utility. I should have clarified that. Also shadow refuge is easily countered by CC due to the lack of stability.

Mobility – in terms of going from A to B and from B to C and from C to A like using Short-bow as a D/P.

Shadow trap – It has a cooldown now.The best way to play that role without thinking that sacrificing Shadow Step or Shadow Refuge is absurd is to play it like Cruuk’s play it which I think is the most efficient way for a thief to invest and build around the concept Shadow Trap aka super aggressive far assaulter.

Think of it this way – With this CC meta having only access to Shadow Trap as an appropriate stun breaker means you are going to teleport far away from the team fight.

Boons – On going boons like on going condition removal. Self-sustained and not taking it from others. Also I am looking at things without including any runes and talking specifically for specific weapon set skills and utilities as well as the tree line.

I hope I made my self clear now and not leave any holes behind. Please re-correct me appropriately again if needed.

Also I am comparing them with other classes and not talking specifically about a thief on its own.

Ultima.8673:

Authority.6145:

PS: Ultima used to run triple elementalists in his team comp. That was the epitome of balance right right Ultima?

Ultima is asking specifically for a nerf because his favorite role and build are not viable anymore so instead of adjusting and adapting like all the thieves have always have done as well as the current trend with warriors, he is asking for a nerf.

just watch the last european curse masters of the mists tournament . in my team i am the only ele… (switching from bunkerele to an offensive one is a completely different role/playstyle)

i played at beginning of the game an offensive staffelementalist ( in svanir ninjas with posi, psyco..) and that steal backstab mug combo was really too high damage. u didnt see the thief coming and u died from 100% to 0% instant. so the thief nerfs were justified….

u should be glad that i won’t post here all former elenerfs….
many of them were justified i can refer to old posts of me
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/The-reign-of-eliminati/first#post1704192

so kitten my complaints are justified.

When did teams stop playing double elementalist again? And you did make a post on forum stating that an S/D thief needs a nerf because because YOU used to be an aggressive far-pointer. After the nerfs you are still here asking for more nerfs.

An elementalist asks for nerfs on a thief as if the thief can 100-0 that class or as if the thief is on the same “balance spread sheet” as an elementalist. Want to compare what an elementalist brings to the team with an S/D thief just to show you how ridiculous your justified complains are?

Lets look at this in another way,

What does S/D do better than other classes?*

Aoe damage? None.
Raw damage? None.
Burst damage? None.
Getting one-shotted? Absolutely not.
Condition damage? None.
Condition removal? None.
Returning conditions? None.
Might-stacking? None.
Self-sustained boons? None.
Self-rezing skill? None.
Rezing an ally while he is downed? None.
Fear, Knockback? None.
Kicking off the point close holders? None.
Holding a point 1v2? Not even worth typing.
Close-point holder? Not even worth typing.
Mobility superiority? None.
Stability? None.
Being the best far-point contester? Not even close.
Passing/sharing boons with the team? None.
Supporting the team with heals? None.

*real

Do you even know why a thief/rogue/assassin has always been super squishy and super deadly in other mmorpgs? I will tell you why;

a. it balances it self out.
b.because it forces players not to blow up all their cooldowns.
c.because it forces players to pay attention rather than playing passively.
d.because it was one of those classes that would punish other players for not knowing their classes.
e.because it was always one of those classes that was able to counter play super abusive set ups/team comps aka mass magic damage/mass cc/and so on and so forth.

So we end up with Guild Wars 2 and a meta that flips completely what a thief is and makes it look like as if playing a joggler instead of being an assassin just to satisfy classes that offer way more to the team while not feel the heat as a thief does versus them.

Fear the almighty S/D thief because an elementalist, a mesmer and an engineer are getting one-shotted while at the same time an S/D thief does everything better than them.

The fact is that you have no arguments strong enough to considerate a S/D Thief OP/Meta in any angle. You just want to have a thief breezing past you.

You want that class which is supposed to outdps every single class in this game to be a walking troll stick.

Well you got it.

Xeph.4513:

^
you would be very narrow minded to assume that; our complaints about those things have been on going for a few months now, and the reason I am discussing this now is because there is a huge up coming tournament, that could potentially shape the face of this game, so I am a lot more concerned about that.
It’s obvious to me that your not even talking objectively if you have come here with the assumption that this is for some petty loses to a team; I don’t think that we are gods gift to guildwars, we win and loose just like any other team, but when I see things that are broken then I point them out.
Also nerfing some classes will bring other potential builds out, but if you are too blind to see the classes ruling this meta and in a very negative manner then I would say ask any team and they will give you the same answers I have.

I am not here to try and give my team some edge over others; and regarding the matter of stealth, well we have an engi and we do use stealth openers, I just hate the fact that there is no counter play to it.

Lets do this the other way.

To the individuals that I have personally talked to so far and are on teams currently participating in tournaments, varying classes, the common census was that S/D thief at best is annoying; either you deal with S/D thief [which practically in one map it is impossible due to teleporting from bottom to top] or you let him loose.

No player so far told me personally through our entire discussions regarding how this game is going, that a specifically S/D Thief is “meta” nor “game-breaking”.

If something is too strong or overpowered in Guild Wars 2 then either you see whole

a.Teams running double that class in their comps.
b.Teams re-traiting their builds specifically to deal with that class.

None of that has happened.

To add, you still didn’t answer why an S/D thief in team fights versus specifically elementalist, necromancer and engineer spamming Aoe and stacking conditions makes the S/D thief a threat.

Considering that in an environment like that the thief is too pre-occupied investing his time, I would roughly say 65-75% or more either with

1.cleansing conditions.
2.trying to evade as much as possible the range-close-spam of all types

how is it literally possible that a class who spends most of its time out of team fights to avoid being nuked from either Aoe or Conditions be considered belonging to the meta?

Considering the fact that it cannot even use a short-bow and therefore it cannot offer by any means ANY Aoe damage from either range or in close, how can it be meta? How is S/D that strong where it can’t even one-shot anyone?

S/D thieves don’t even apply weakness as they were meant to because they have to keep on spamming to play the build like it is suppose to be played.

If for example thieves in the future will be able to have a strong condition removal tool, then that will be the day they they would be the new meta because D/P would be viable again. The only reason thieves do not play D/P which is far, so much superior to S/D it is even a joke to compare it; and let us not forget that if properly timed a D/P thief can shut down the S/D thief instantly while using Headshot and Heartseeker as a finisher, is because of the sword #2 with S/D. Take out the ability to teleport like that and I guarantee you that either 99.9 reroll or switch back to D/P.

In this current meta, Necromancers and Engineers are there. Maybe in the future we are going to see mesmers playing high condition bunker builds since right now torment is extremely powerful for that certain class.

So if a certain class like that with fact-based drawbacks in an environment dominated by aoe-and-conditions team fights where it spends most of the time out of team fights, is perceived to belong in this current meta, then I guess I am going to be blinded to death and not agree to it.

To finish, you can counter-play stealth by stealthing your team after or time it when to stealth.

Compilation of Thief Nerfs
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Compilation-of-Thief-Nerfs-V-2-0/first

Biggest nerfs by order

a. Basilisk Venom not immobilizing
b.Mug not criting.
c.Introduced one second reveal
d.Short-bow range changed to 900.

First of all,

“A thief can jump in and out —> No Risk”

Thief’s role is not to jump in and out like a bunny on speed like you see with this condi-meta, wasting most of his time cleansing conditions than giving to the team sustained damage. You even forgot to tell us the risk in staying IN. Why don’t you imagine for a second what staying IN means as S/D with having in front of him an engineer, an elementalist and an necromancer spamming Aoe?

Secondly,

“In regards of stealth counterplay…”.

Regarding nerfing stealth, that includes all types of stealth right from all classes right; aka thieves, mesmers, engineers?

Also let me get this straight.

Due to the fact that your team is not running a thief and thus does not have Shadow Refuge then stealth needs to be nerfed. So because you choose not to run a class and others are choosing to run one with it you gotta nerf that specific class so everyone is rolling the same team composition as you. Got it.

Shadow refuge has existed for far too many months and the whole grouping-up-to moah-that-poor-little-soul-named-Guardian is not something new. I never saw one person complaining about that tactic because everybody was doing it or have done it at some point. In fact it was considered a very intelligent play.

So why now if not because of other teams not running the same composition as you?

“This would allow people who rely on stealth to get away still to use it as an escape”

Can you name me which classes right now rely on stealth? We are talking about stealth and not teleporting I assume unless there is a new definition of stealth meaning teleporting. The only trait line for a thief to rely on stealth is Shadow Arts and no thief invests on SA for TPvP.

Lets now talk about intelligent play

Mesmer – Spamming Clones [Artificial Intelligence] and one-shotting a player.
Mesmer – 3-shotting a player with Moah.
Mesmer – Auto-attacking with GS, going and making some coffee, have some a smoke and then come back to see Phantasms [Artificial Intelligence] nuke the kitten out of a player.

Elementalist – “Hey guys I used to go and contest an enemy’s close point by pressing only one button – activating my tornado and then I would just be chilling there healing my self over and over again”.
Elementalist “Right now I do things differently; wanna see real magic? Say blink and boom!”.

Ranger – “I was such a beast master back in the day that I would sit on my close point and wait for my pets to do the work for me”
Ranger – “Now I am working a bit harder because I also have to do some auto-attacking and laugh at you as I am applying my conditions. Ask my new pets. They love it!”

Necromancer – “You wanna see the train of death? Just ride with me”.

Engineer – “I am all about the pew pew pew. I am like Lucky Luke. I pew pew pew faster than my shadow”.

So with all of these great examples of intelligent play in mind, the second class that is so game-breaking right now is an S/D thief. Rumors say that in the next patch we are going to see double thieves and before 2014 it would be triple just to get even with elementalists.

There is too much irony and hypocrisy in having a mesmer, an engineer and an elementalist calling nerfs on thief; regardless of the reality of nerfs over the period of time.

PS: Ultima used to run triple elementalists in his team comp. That was the epitome of balance right right Ultima?

Ultima is asking specifically for a nerf because his favorite role and build are not viable anymore so instead of adjusting and adapting like all the thieves have always have done as well as the current trend with warriors, he is asking for a nerf.

Others should jump in as well and defend this nerf S/D thief bandwagon. Especially the ones that claimed that engineers would be replaced by necromancers (you real bro?!) even though logic dictated that they would compliment them. I predict many more pages where the end of the line would be shouting that playing a thief is skilless and everybody else’s sweat is unbearable to watch it.

I hope I do not offend anyone because that was not my intention. But to be quite honest while I do agree with a couple of points presented so far and logic dictates again that S/D thief should be nerfed, it shouldn’t happen if other nerfs are not implemented as well.

However, I am still extremely suspicious that this is more about a personal TP thread against Car Crush regarding the latest outcome facing them than balance itself.

Long version short, if you genuinely want “balance” then ask for all classes to be nerfed to the extend of a Warrior or a D/D thief.

This post is in the heart of all thieves.

This is the highest backstab damage in TPvP.

Great feedback and thanks for the info.

One last question.

Is there a perfect build for a thief to run any type of Fractal Difficulty?

Also wanted to add my thoughts regarding the current state of Thief in this current meta after exchanging an interesting discussion with another thief.

“I would assume that in this condition-based crowd control meta (Condi-Mesmers, Condi-Necros, Spirit Master Condi-Rangers) thieves are forced to

a.Go back to D/P and provide the most viable DPS damage with dazing from headshot and steal as well as boon stealing and sharing.
b.Go back to S/D and provide the most CC build.
c.Go back to S/D and provide the most supportive build (10/0/0/30/30)
d. Synergize S/D with D/P (start off with S/D, finish off with D/P)

because

a.D/P cannot work as only a full glass cannon build (25/30/0/0/15) due to the various updates and nerfs, including the most recent one.
b.Hybrid S/D (evade + sustained damage) is currently spending 65-75% of the time removing conditions than providing what it should provide.

Ultimately, I really hope that they do something about that sigil – SoP. If thieves are able to daze one extra second (33+15) it will open more doors for D/P and S/D to provide more interruption-like roles.

Your arguments from your first reply are sound and by no means do I wish to challenge them. I still though believe that there is still hope. I am extremely biased and after watching Defektive’s New CC Warrior build I was inspired to sit down and re-think over of what a thief was, what a thief is and what a thief should evolve too.

I would like to think that at this current meta, we as thieves need to evolve in the sense of changing our role.

My 2cents.

This will be the final version of my personal favorable D/P and I am really looking forward to complete it on my character for WvW.

World Class D/P
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYEQNAsaVlYmiOHcy5E/5Ey2jKUo4JOFGlT1pgrsKA-jUyAYLBRiCAZBiKAm8KiGbVsIas6aMlLRUtBvIa1SBExYA-w

Arganthium.5638:

Heya,

The 10/0/0/30/30 build that you have posted under my name under there, while reflecting the majority of my trait choices, isn’t my build. You can give yourself credit for it.

I’d say that 10/0/0/30/30 builds are one of my specialties, though I wouldn’t go so far as to call myself the father of a certain string of builds.

Unlike other people out there. You guys know who I’m talking about.

EDIT: I should also say that I’m trying to find the time to write about my build on this thread, as you suggested. I’m just waiting to get over my current “oh-it’s-summer-time-to-be-lazy” mood.

No need crediting for anything. I just use my “name” because I have a tendency to change them over time to adjust my personal preferences; and I will keep updating them taken into account all the possible feedback I receive. Thats about it really. Everybody has helped me in one way or another including forum, youtube, twitch streaming, in game, and so on and so forth.

Looking forward to your future response. It is summer after all. No need to rush.

PS: I am going to re-design the appearance of my thief.

Asura>all (with evidence not just personal appearance preference)

josh.7390:

Mammoth.1975:

So you’re running all those since they’re the strongest builds atm right?

Imho the biggest balance issue is the various easy to play builds. It’s ridiculous that some guys pick up a necro or a spirit ranger, roll their face over the keyboard and are able to win vs. others who play their class near perfect. The kitteny thing is, that those guys dont get punished if a neff comes in, they just switch to the next flavor of the month op build.

When BM ranger came up (the old one) a lot of ppls switched on it and they easily won most 1v1 just because its face rolling. Same thing for Mesmers 8 months ago. Its a easy to pick up class. You can play an effective Mesmer after 5h of practice. As soon as you play vs. better opponents you need do adapt, because every1 dodges your spikes. Thats the point where you can actually spot good mesmers because they can set gheir spike properly and close to instant, but that needs a lot of time. I mean there are not many mesmers left, afaik even xeph switche on thief

This just happens to many classes. They get a cookie-cutter build, it gets nerfed – ohh just pick up the next one, np. So bring up some builds which are harder to learn but in the end are more effective than all those cookie-cutters. Engi is probably a good example for a hard to pick up class (except hgh)

I am going to use your post for my new blog-post. Hope you don’t mind.

+1

Thanks for all the responses so far. Very useful information indeed.

One more question at the moment. What is the best way to start gaining a lot of Laurels? Can you complete both PvP and PvE daily in one day and receive from both Laurels?

Dear community,

My guild is going to move to PvE and World vs World since most of our members now are casually TPvPing as we are all waiting for solo-que leaderboards to be announced. Here are our members so far.

Deathgod Ryuu (Thief)
Feel my Loove (Mesmer)
Illustríous (Mesmer)
Oblivion Ocean (Guardian)
Reborn E (Elementalist)
Umpa Ele (Elementalist)

I am personally looking for experienced PvErs and veterans of World vs World in solo-quo-triple group format

Classes I am searching for PvE (Dungeons;Speedruns/Speedfarms + World Exploration) as a start are

Guardian
Warrior
Mesmer

Requirements for PvE

Experience:
Gear:
Personality:

Please keep in mind I want individuals willing to PvE with me and others in all types of PvE or be willing to.

Classes I am searching for World vs World (Exploring + Killing)

Mesmer
Warrior

Requirements for Wold vs World

Experience:
Rank:
Gear/Build(s):
Personality:

Representing is always a must. To add, one class from each profession stated will be recruited. This is an extremely close group of individuals and we will keep it this way. If you are able to both PvE and WvW with us you are able to include that information as well as other info relevant with the requirements.

Thanks for your time and feel free to ask anything,

Deathgod Ryuu

The ratio is one out of two players has got a smurf account. Precisely it is one out of three but slowly is going to have the ratio mentioned in the first sentence.

Re-update the following. The “Cobra S/D” is the definition of what I consider the role of a thief as an interrupter. Blind when stealthed + Daze. I would consider Melandru’s Runes over everything since your main job is to apply daze as much as possible and that means needing a rune to negate part of condition durations (i.e fear will last from 3 seconds to 1.5).

SoP + Runes of Mesmer still require more testing to see whether;

1.SoP can be double stacked.
2.SoP actually increasing Daze duration.
3.Calculate the final Daze duration with runes of Mesmer and see whether being able to Daze for longer is more risk-awarding than other runes.

Rattlesnake S/D
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAsY8YlYmaPncS4E/5Ey2jKUo4JuCGV3DuyqqKA-TwAg0CnIMSZkzIjRSjsGNQYhw+j5HA
Runes: Lysa, Melandru, Mesmer (Requires more testing with SoP)

Cobra S/D
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAsY8YlYmaPncS4E/5EyWhKk7hR5UJV3DuyqqKA-TwAg0CnIkSJlTKjUSpsSNsYZx+j5HA
Runes: Most likely Melandru or Mesmer (Requires more testing with SoP )

Also regarding SoP (+15% duration of stun) here is an interesting discussion.

Stacking double SoP?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Papa-s-Stance-Warrior-Build

Any hot spots in World vs World for solo-duo ?

So far X server boarders = Zergfest from either enemy or ally.
Eternal Battlegrounds = Seems quite a lot of fun but still need more time exploring it.

rmBossa.4621:

Yeah this is the first time Ive missed SoS in a build, but only really notice it at the start of the match. If its really bothering me Ill just use steal to get that long swiftness and its usually back up in time to use it (going far point usually )

I actually was having trouble with other D/P thieves at first too, for the same reason— I was too used to the initiative regain from S/D. I try to not be the first one to powder>HS so they come out of stealth first and just immediately spam 1 > steal (with bask venom up) Usually stacking 2 stealths with HS will ensure this. Like old school D/D its the first thief to land an opener.

It still bothers me. I have always used it since day one so I will keep it. I am also thinking of doing this trait-variation of D/P;

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlUmaPncy5E/5Ex2DfKUe69gsj1saFoJA-TsAg0CnI4SxljLDXSuscNoYZxsAA

where the combo is the following;

Basilisk Venom
Activate signet of shadows + infiltrator’s signet [10stacks of might] + Heartseeker + Steal (daze)
Black Powder + Heartseeker + Backstab
Headshot + Heartseeker

However if I find that activating both signets in team fights is detrimental in long fights then I will probably invest on 5% precision converted to HP and 20% cooldown on signet use and start off like this;

Basilisk Venom
Infiltrator’s Signet + Heartseeker+Steal
ect.

Versus D/P thief it would be

Black Powder + the combo using infiltrator’s signet

or black Powder + Headshot/Steal to cut of the animation of their Heartseeker.

Once we have soloque leaderboards since I am playing it right now casually (which they said the will definitely implement it and actually made an official response of doing it soon) I will probably comment more accurately.

It is a different approach doing things as a thief in a ts-premade environment i.e use last refuge for 4 members of your team and different doing it solo or use last refuge and stealth engie/ele to go to their far point.

Also the really need to put a visual timer on Shadow Trap. After getting it to last 2m I either

a.keep missing it
b.waste it because their close holder didn’t come to team fights or their close holder did but because the team fights were long I was not able to use it.

rmBossa.4621:

^ Yup Ive been using this D/P build for a lil while now. Been getting really good results with it.

Earlier in this thread I talked about how I didnt think the changes to Steal would make up for previous nerfs. All I can say is you really have to try it out to see its potential.

If you run with infiltrators signet that with the reduced CD on steal means you can consistently close ground and land backstabs.

The stun and boon hate on steal are really good to. The thing I had liked about S/D was its ability to bring down bunkers, and this brings this back on the table for dagger MH builds where before you wouldnt even think of de-bunking.

Especially against guardians now. Using steal and then the stolen mace item right after is always fun.

The only thing I didn’t like was not having signet of shadow for that 25% movement increase. I literally can’t stand walking like a matrix squirrel. Also I am thinking of investing on SA to get that trait that gives you 2 initiative every time you stealth instead of mug doing damage.

Something like this

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlUmaP3cS5E/5Ey2jKUo4JuCGl3DyasMLA-TsAg0CnI4SxljLDXSuscNoYZxsAA

Also how do you start vs other d/p thieves? I keep getting humiliated after switching to D/P after such a long time. Is it good to stack stealth with that 10/30/0/0/30 since there is no ini regen through that?

Travlane.5948:

i prefer the extra second of stun over….it matches well with 3-4 secs of invis. the lyssa runes only help you once every 45 seconds….at best. mesmer runes can potentially help you every 4-5 seconds if u get stuns off right. srry cant say that it balances in comparison. perhaps if you used improvisation and got lucky everytime with venoms on a 20 0 20 0 30 build or something. idk. jmpov

If you fight someone without boons as S/D [in TPvP] you will feel naked/stripped. There are many times with S/D that you use your elite defensively to remove an X amount of boons. and withdraw has a 50% chance to give you a dire-of-importance boon. Plus if you think about it the acrobatic line gives you 30% boon duration – which synergize well with those runes.

Boons can also enhance your survival-skills in team fights ranging from condi-to-rawdamage. So collecting boons by any means with 30% boon duration is the butter of this build. Take away everything that can give that build boons and you are left with vulnerable evasive thief. Of course the sum is bigger than parts but that is my opinion.

I am personally going back to D/P.

Back to D/P
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlUmiOXcS4E/5Ey2jKcn4JvHk1YZWaFoJA-TsAg0CnI4SxljLDXSuscNoYZxsAA

Rance Webster.2635:

… Shadow refuge with stability?… yeah, not a chance, with stability there’ll be no way to stop them in shadow refuge when they use it to make the finishing animation on downed people, reviving people, or to just try and hit them while they are inside (I use my hammer’s 4th skill and burst skill to try and stop them, usually it works)

So basically let me get this straight.

All classes have got stunbreaker for our 45 second elite = checked.
All classes can get us our 60 second refuge = checked
All classes have got/can gain stability (apart from Mesmers I think) = checked

So yeah no stability for thieves but it is alright to have for the rest. Makes sense.

Without runes of lysa S/D is a joke. Will post feedback tomorrow.

Tested Runes of Mesmer. Not worth it.

Also I think Sigil of Paralyzation does not increase daze duration.

Going to Try Runes of Melandru now with the Cobra Build.

For World vs World this is the build I am definitely going to be using. taking consideration all the changes with D/P so far.

Backstabbing you to death
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAoaVlYmaPXcS6E/5EymidqC5eYUOVR1pgrsKA-j0xAEFAyCEVAM5VEN2qYR0Y11YKXioaA-w

The problem is with condi removal.

My experience right now tells me that what they need to do is

a.Reduce Hide in the Shadows to 20 seconds and put “remove 3 conditions” or have Withdraw remove 2 conditions.
b.Shadow Refuge needs to grant the thief stability

I honestly think that the change with the reveal in TPvP should stay because stealth-backstab, stealth-backstab without the enemy being able to track down where is the thief was absurd.

Travlane.5948:

well u forgot one….im using p/d stun 10 0 30 0 30…and its my fav build right now. strongest all around in wvw. and ive mastered all thief builds….. except p/p.

Well post the link so I can add it using preferably gw2skills.net

Would nice if there was a way in tournament to be able to use S/D + D/P in TPvP. Like start off with S/D to apply weakness, steal boons ect, then switch to D/P to finish him off with a good old backstab.

Probably something like this;

Backstabber Evasive Thief
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAsY4alYmaP3by4E/5Ey2jKcn4JtC0U3DuyqqKA-TwAg0CnIKSVkrITRyisFNsYRx+j5HA

Regarding Daze builds here are all three all S/D S/D.

Rattlesnake S/D
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAsY8YlYmaP3bS5E/5EymiKcn4UYUOV3DuyqqKA-TwAg0CnIKSVkrITRyisFNQYhw+j5HA

Cobra S/D
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAsY8YlYmaP3bS5E/5ExWhdy9woOVpdP4qVrKA-TwAg0CnIMSZkzIjRSjsGNQYhw+j5HA

Ultimate Daze S/D
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAsY8YlYmaP3bS5E/5EBXBj69gsj1sdP4qVrKA-TwAg0CnIkSJlTKjUSpsSNQYhw+j5HA

• First one uses Runes of Lysa
  Sigils: 2x Sigil of Fire + Sigil of Endurance

• Second uses Runes of Melandru
  Sigils: 2x Sigil of Paralyzation + Sigil of Endurance

• Third one uses Runes of Mesmer
  Sgils: 2x Sigil of Paralyzation + Sigil of Endurance

For any thief who is willing to test them in Tournament Environment [TPVP] please give feedback. Please also comment after playing tournaments on the sigils used and the runes as well since it is of a dire important (i.e how well do they synergize with the trait line;i.e shadow arts = runes of melandru?, ect)

Travlane.5948:

drop 15 in acro. its not needed. put more in crit line or preferably shadow arts….what i would do is 10 for mug/poison on steal and 5 into SA for meld in shadows

There are two versions of it.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAsY8YlYmaP3bS5E/5EymiKcn4UYUOV3DuyqqKA-TwAg0CnIMSZkzIjRSjsGNQYhw+j5HA

Travlane.5948:

Authority.6145:

Ultimate Daze

Inspired by loljumper, Arga and Defective I bring you probably the most annoying//ultimate daze build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAsY8YlYmaP3bS5E/5EBXBj69gsjNsdP4qVrKA-TwAg0CnIkSJlTKjUSpsSN+Y9xugZBA

Daze them all night long.

Concept: Interrupter – Your role is to interrupt and allow your team to burst the target while you get on formidable enemies (Necro, Ele, Engi) and force them to move away/around from their team and disengage as much as possible by delaying his burst on your targeted ally.*

*See more in here; https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.twitch.tv%2Fdefektive%2Fb%2F430003013

PS: I need to find a new name for it.

i dont see how this is a daze build…other than tactical strike. ud be better off using sleigh to f hand

Yeah link was not updated properly.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAsY8YlYmaP3bS5E/5EBXBj69gsj1sdP4qVrKA-TwAg0CnIkSJlTKjUSpsSNQYhw+j5HA

Ultimate Daze

Inspired by loljumper, Arga and Defective I bring you probably the most annoying//ultimate daze build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQRAsY8YlYmaP3bS5E/5EBXBj69gsjNsdP4qVrKA-TwAg0CnIkSJlTKjUSpsSN+Y9xugZBA

Daze them all night long.

Concept: Interrupter – Your role is to interrupt and allow your team to burst the target while you get on formidable enemies (Necro, Ele, Engi) and force them to move away/around from their team and disengage as much as possible by delaying his burst on your targeted ally.*

*See more in here; https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/external?l=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.twitch.tv%2Fdefektive%2Fb%2F430003013

PS: I need to find a new name for it.

muslumgurseks.4951:

Used to use WTFast back in the day while I was playing World of Warcraft and Turkey’s outgoing ping was kitten and it was helping quite alot. However if you are experiencing skill lag there is no way a 3rd party program like it wont help your case and It wasnt free back in the day dont know how much it’s nowadays.

I didn’t know WTFast was that old. I just saw it randomly on someone’s stream and thought when did they introduce that program?

Anyway how can you see your ping for Guild Wars 2?

One person suggested this

“Resource Monitor – Check the GW2.exe in the ‘Networking’ pane, and you will get your ip addresses and their related pings in the bottom box”

I am going to give a shot at battleping again and see the results.

I miss it like I miss my dead ex-wife.

Arganthium.5638:

Authority.6145:

Arganthium.5638:

What an absolutely well-made argument, truly. The evidence provided here was just extraordinary. The thesis, legendary. Truly, a masterpiece that represents the epitome of modern debate.

Your language was clear and concise. You used a variety of extremely powerful literary devices to influence the readers’ thoughts on the topic at hand (going from a singular noun to a verb describing a plurality? Brilliant!). The argument was short yet to the point.

You, sir, will have monuments built in your honor. Your story shall be told to generations of children, aspiring just to be like you, for centuries. You will become a god among mortal men, and shall be known as one of the, if not the greatest human being to have ever lived.

Although I was laughing my kitten off reading your reply, I hope we are on the same length with the OP when it comes to the Immortal S/D build.

I’m in a bit of a state of limbo when it comes to S/D. See, if we’re talking about Jumper’s build, I would not at all say that S/D is OP. In fact, I think that Jumper’s build is very easily counterable, and I have been able to counter it very easily myself (albeit with my own S/D build :P). That being said, I am a bit… On-edge with my own build possibly being OP, actually. Here it is: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fYAQNAsYVlYm6OncS6E/5Eh3DyO2wqVgmdP4qV1KA-TsAA1CnIKSVkrITRyisFNKYVwECA

Undoubtedly, somebody’s bound to complain that “lol u don’t run 30 cs, ur a lozer and teh bild suckz”. However, I feel that every trait in this build is extremely useful and is used, and that this build is near unkillable. I designed it specifically myself, building on it using both mathematics as well as some strategy I’ve learned with my hobby of playing chess. It also does some surprisingly high damage, especially with boonsteal and TotC. Now, because Steal’s CD has been reduced by 10 seconds, I get to use Steal so often that I usually have fury for at least have of the total battle, and more if I can boonsteal it.

So I dunno. I’ve countered S/D easily before, but whether that’s because I was also running S/D, the S/D meta sucks, or the players suck is the real question to me. I think it might be a combination of all three.

No bragging rights in here but congratulations! I am just surprised that it was the S/D build I posted a long time ago (immediately after the post-patch) but decided to remove it since it didn’t give me enough faith to try it at a first glance.

Whenever you have time please explain it to us (if you do not mind that is) in this thread https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Time-to-suicide-Stealth-Stunner-S-D/page/5#post2412553 so we can have a constructive discussion about S/D; I would really love to exchange opinions with you about it in there.

I will respond appropriately there as well since this is a troll thread.

Jzaku.9765:

Well, if you’re running mace/shield greatsword you might as well full-time the skull crack 100b build.

Link please?

Defektive.7283:

Authority.6145:

Great Streaming. Keep it up.

Here is the build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fIAQRApe8ZjcOtwxQqQ4wBE0jrQDriTBlQ9wOmD8A-TwAA1CtIMSZkzIjRSjsGNKYFwugJCA

Incorrect, but nice try!

I give up. I simply can’t get your 24.512 HP.

So kitten you.

Anyway goodnight.

redslion.9675:

So there was no mace shield/greatsword build, then…

That build is kinda odd… at first sight I’d say it doesn’t deal a great amount of damage, but seems like it works.

His role is to interrupt and allow his team to burst the target while he gets on formidable enemies (Necro, Ele, Engi) and forces them to move away/around from their team and disengage as much as possible by delaying their burst on his targeted ally.

I wanted to point out that I am 99.9percent sure that is that build. I am still skeptical with the rune choice (with Rune of Lysa I get 17% Crit-Chance – See previous Attachment) as well as with some specific traits (trait line s are right).

Though he did state that he brought a Sword/Mace instead of bow due to having a Thief with him (D/P/Shortbow).

His role is sort of exactly like the Perma Evasive S/D Thief if you think about it.