Guild Wars 2

Every class has been making bug reports on bugs for 7 months. I agree it’s a real issue. I’m merely pointing out that the way we present the issue should be the actual issue, and not via a complaint we don’t get enough attention.

I want the same things you want. I want our stuff fixed. I don’t want to ignore or report you, I want to convince you to do things in a more productive manner. The way it’s done now is childlike, likely unintentionally done so, and I want to correct that.

Mostly I would just buff all the gunk that exists in the skills, traits, and such. As for specific types of reworks I’d reduce Turret and Gadget cooldowns, remove some auto-attacks in the Kits and replace them with just cooldown abilities, make sure things like Downed state have damage hybridization, boost survival a bit by introducing some more sustain, reduce RNG in the Elixir line, introduce a few new finishers into select places like the Pistol and Grenade Barrage, generally align the Engineer’s theme that their Utility Slots are above average in power, and introduce the Portal Mechanic into the Engineer’s utility slots.

Sometimes when you jump skills fail to finish working properly. Don’t jump. This might not be the case here, but be wary of it.

Pretty much everyone has a “the grass is greener on the other side” approach to class balance on the forums. What I’d really advise you to do is make up your own mind about things and don’t let the forums sway your opinion much.

Also I already see the exaggeration with turrets here. If Turrets one shot everyone they wouldn’t be able to really be killed at all. So simply saying they suck because they have low health and that it doesn’t matter how much damage is increased is a silly line of thought. The argument that their survival is weak and that is what should be improved is a fantastic argument and one I support, but there is always a point where increasing the damage would negate the survival weaknesses of a turret. Make the argument that their survival should be increased and why that should be so instead of just making an example that can be easily defeated.

This is absolutely ridiculous. I don’t mean the change, because any patch fix is great for this game. I mean this whole line of thinking. They fixed a bug, and just because it wasn’t the Engineer’s bug you are all complaining?

I get it, you are frustrated that Scope is still bugged and that Deployable Turrets recently is bugged. However the fix to Hidden Killer was probably exceptionally easy to do. Now this is speculation driven by experience with programming, but to me I’d imagine the Scope bug is incredibly difficult to fix and the Deployable Turrets one is at least more difficult then the Hidden Killer one. The Hidden Killer bug is also a much higher priority as many more people were using it then these other two Engi traits. Is there anything wrong with that? No!

There are tons of bugs across every class that are like Scope and Deployable Turrets. Do all the other professions complain about things like this too? Actually yes, they do. We are not alone in this department. They have a lot of things to fix, and it sounds incredibly petty when we identify a bug fix and complain that it wasn’t ours.

What should you do instead? Make a thread with a topic concerning the Deployable Turrets bug. The Scope bug. Make bug reports about it. Put it in the Bug forums. Do anything other then the completely unproductive task of complaining about the bug in a thread obfuscated via complaints that other classes are getting fixes. That’s not going to get anything done and is nothing more then a fruitless activity of pessimism.

irakai.6891:

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Technically speaking even without multi-kit builds being viable there is more than enough room for 5 to 7 builds out there. When it comes to build diversity, what I see is something akin to one set back and two steps forward. I don’t like that 100 Nades is effectively gone, but I do see the rationality for it. To compensate they fill the patch up with tons of buffs (more then any other profession from my standpoint) and hopefully make a few more builds viable and competitive. This hopefully makes more net builds viable. It won’t always be the case nor is it necessarily the case now, but it shows me at least that the devs are on the right path.

I know Scope is still broken and Acidic Elxirs is still terrible. There are bugs and terrible, terrible traits among all the classes. It’s not just the Engineer. It really just comes down to manpower and although ANet isn’t exactly small, they aren’t some massively large company yet either. Given the success of GW2 perhaps that will change, but as it stands a little bit of rationality brings us to only a couple of changes per patch. Which is reasonable to me.

Given we don’t know what their intent is, but perhaps multi-kit builds aren’t truly designed to be competitively viable. Is there anything wrong with that? It’s impossible to make every build variant truly viable and there will always be relatively speaking better builds then others. This to a gaming community means all the builds below that are completely out of the picture. They said their goal is five to seven builds, which is completely reasonable to me and seems to be something they are striving for.

It does come down a difference in perception or perspective. What I see are a bunch of assumptions about what you think ANet is doing behind the scenes, which only serves to fuel your own pessimism. Now there is nothing wrong with your opinions on the changes (as everyone has a right ot their own opinion) and there is nothing wrong inherently with pessimism, but when it’s fueled by exaggerations and evidence that does not exist then it starts to become dangerous. Then the discussions on forums become silly and serve no real purpose. When the arguments become “Hey ANet play our class more!” instead of "So I think the problem with our class is we lack survival, many of our less used kits still need boosts, and I really think this Scope trait should be fixed. Here is why…. " then we aren’t providing anything for the devs. The reason I think you feel detachment is because it’s a position that forces you to detach yourself. Else bias would leak in subconsciously. I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing for a dev to have as a quality because of that. That’s why detailed discussion on forums instead of blame calling is really, really good for devs to read.

I know you like the game. I love the game too. I can see it in your passion and desire to fix the game. Sometimes though, you have to temper your emotions and make rational arguments. Both of us are inherently biased and we need to recognize that. We’ve had some fantastic discussion on things and while we may not agree on everything I know we both love the Engineer class and love GW2.

Make sure you are trying to use Shrapnel Grenades on cooldown, that’ll force you to swap enough.

Why do you think that is safe to say? I don’t see that from my perspective so I’m curious.

Haha, I was serious though, I made an awesome mistake. Hopefully someone who has tried both builds can help rectify this craziness. I’ve played the Power variation and it is quite different to have the Rifle and extremely powerful Grenade Barrages in comparison to relying more on Bleeds and Burns. Again though, without really doing an SD build in a long time I don’t think I’m qualified to compare them or I would be offering advice.

I wouldn’t plan an ability combo on a Mesmer. Their entire kit is designed to mess up preconceived plans. Especially when it comes to Burst combos it’s very unlikely to land them without juking through multiple defenses. Just know what they can do and when they are likely to do it. That’s the best way to beat a Mesmer.

I can only offer generic advice without knowing what build you run, and I’ve answered the question previously in a generic fashion. If it were condi-burst, I’d just say AoE the stuff down. This all assumes we know the Mesmer is a Shatter Power Mesmer.

Ayestes.1273:

MatyrGustav.6210:

any Suggestions?

The Mesmer in this case is a Shatter Memser, not really a melee mesmer. It’s unlikely they will stay in melee the entire time. The reason being, they are incredibly squishy when they aren’t pulling off their burst and when they are in their Sword set. This changes a bit when they are with the Staff, but in general there are fantastic set of tips when dealing with them. Keep in mind though that if you are pure melee then the odds aren’t in your favor, but that doesn’t mean you auto-lose.

• Dodge roll into the clones when they shatter. This triggers their explosions. A Shatter mesmer’s damage is mostly in these shatters. Mitigate them and you mitigate the vast majority of what they can do.

• Move away from the Mesmer if possible. Mesmers need you to be close to deal their real damage. Unless they have a Greatsword they have no real way to deal damage in this long range case, and without the Staff they are incredibly weak defensively beyond the trickery. AoE slows in particular can make it very easy to pick off Mesmer stuff.

• Move all the bloody time and learn to recognize the leaping clone. This leaping clone is the very beginning of the burst combo that you are going to be hit with. If you can keep away from it and/or dodge the follow-up then you have fully mitigated the combo. The other way to start the combo is with the Magic Bullet stun, so dodge roll that projectile if possible as well and stun break it if you get caught while having that cooldown up.

• AoE is pretty key in dealing with clones in general. This won’t stop the primary combo of clones if you get caught in the burst cycle, but beyond a Mirror Images burst while you are Immobilized it’s completely feasible to cleave them down. If you do get immobilized, make sure you use whatever invuln options you may or may not have.

• Recognize Distortion. They are invulnerable during Blurred Frenzy and their Distortion Shatter. Don’t waste valuable cooldowns during this period. I’ve seen far too many people try to burst a Mesmer I have targeted with Quickness for example. They are literally invulnerable during their burst combo, keep that in mind.

Best advice in general though, is to go play one. Start with a Phantasm build for a few hours to ease into the profession and then pickup the premier Shatter build once you have adjusted to the profession. Easiest way to learn how to beat something is to play it, and in GW2 it is incredibly easy to do that. If you are too stubborn to learn how to do that, then just watch Mesmer some streams on twitch.tv. Experience and knowledge of what a profession can do and usually does is the vast majority of skill in any MMO. Targeting nightmare is accurate though, they can be pretty frustrating without tons and tons of practice.

Well let’s just pretend all of our posts back there don’t count then, and I’ll see myself out. Whoops. I’m clearly not qualified for that kinda discussion, heh.

I disagree that Null Field makes a Condi Build useless. I actually only strips one per per second, and around 5 or 6 conditions total. Since we typically have more then 5 or 6 conditions on the target and are constantly applying many of them anyway it makes a dent certainly but it most certainly does not stop the flow of damage. Engineer condition builds overload most condition removal compared to other condi builds. Condi removal is not the answer to an Engi condi assault.

As for what is better, an SD build vs. a Condi-Burst… I honestly haven’t played SD in a long time so I don’t think I’m qualified to answer that.

These are nifty ideas, but they do kinda break design precedent by referencing specific abilities instead of categorically classified abilities. Basically, these traits might be too specific to single abilities instead of general categories.

Without doing math, I think it’d still be weaker then Ele healing. I however don’t think our healing should be as strong as an Ele, but I would love it if our survival did actually come more from healing then evasion or mitigation.

As an example I think our Perma Vigor access should be pushed deeper while our Heals get a unique boost in functionality. Toss Elixir H should have a splash heal, Healing Turret should actually pulse some direct heals with a smaller Regen effect, and Med Kit pickups should splash the effects in a small radius. That’s kind of me just being wishful though, as I kinda think we should be the perfect mix of moderate sustain, moderate evasion, and moderate mitigation. Not superior in any category unless specialized, but not equal to or weaker then anyone else in those categories either.

I think in general our survival isn’t really where it should be though, and I would like it improved. I think improving it mostly in the sustain department would be the right place to do it design and flavor wise.

Ah, yeah I was thinking we could get over 600 regen per second with this and Regen. That would make a pretty crazy Bunker build, but maybe we should just concentrate on convincing ANet to give this a healing component irregardless.

That makes the trait extremely powerful. Interesting for Bunker builds.

Without Incendiary Powder, the crit isn’t really that good.

There is something oddly satisfying about throwing up 7 to 9 stacks of Confusion on someone in WvW for 10 full seconds. Especially while blocking attacks from a Haste Thief. The phrase “Stop hitting yourself!” comes to mind.

I actually have a pretty big list of changes too, but there is a reason I’ve never posted it. It’s just a wishlist. You need to explain why you want each change or else that’s all it is. It’s hard for a dev to take anything from it at all beyond what the hopes and dreams of Killyox concerning the Engineer class is. It needs arguments, discussion, and elaboration. More then just “it needs changes” and “it’s weak” as well, since that’s not descriptive enough.

I mostly agree with Mask here that the changes as a whole would be too much. I do realize though that you may not intend for everything to absolutely go through though. I think alongside your disclaimer that things would need to be tweaked obviously, that everything shouldn’t necessarily be all done at once. Additionally this kind of thing would assume similar overhauls of other classes as well, so even then it wouldn’t really change the balance of power too much and hopefully just increase build diversity.

Terror works a bit silly because the timing of the damage pulses are not consistent within the Fear durations. The damage does not tick precisely at the beginning and then one second later, it starts at some point after the Fear is applied based on your other ticking conditions I think.

There has been some testing that Bleeds will rollover some of their ticks to so that it mostly works out to an actually 97% damage increase, probably a little less since it rounds down rather then rounds up in this case. Poison stacks in duration, usually has a long duration, and isn’t exactly high in the damage so we aren’t concerned with Poison here. Confusion doesn’t tick for damage, so we don’t care about that 3% there either, although perhaps the rounding in the tooltip to quarter seconds may be meaningful? I wonder if in reality it’s rounded or uses as that decimal? Anyway, still it isn’t going to be a big deal.

The biggest problem is your Burns. Our Burns come in… 2 second chunks. It stacks in duration so it wouldn’t be too big a deal if you could maintain it, but Burns are so powerful they are balanced by not being able to be maintained. Especially with condi-removal present. You will lose a lot of Burn damage, and basically whenever the Burn condition expires off a target you will lose one tick of Burn damage.

So that’s the sacrifice. it’s up to you if you want it, as without real testing or math beyond that logic above I can’t tell you which one is better. Especially when it comes down being a build that you use, and not one that I use. Personal preference matters a lot more then most people would let you believe.

Linnes.2678:

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I’d generally agree the build wasn’t that overpowered, but there were certain aspects of it that made it different compared to other burst options. I think it had two qualities that made it even more frustrating than Thief or Warrior burst. One being that it would work at a range, and continue to stay at a range when performed via the Magnet Pull. The other was that the damage part of the combo was entirely done in a single global and just a single Grenade Barrage alone is around the same relative strength as a Thief Backstab yet we were effectively doing two of them. It was hard as all heck to land certainly, but when it was pulled off unless they some decent intentionally stacked defenses or Protection then they were pretty much dead or nearly dead.

I mean, I think the burst in this game is a little too strong as it stands. They nerfed the heck out of Quickness, so I don’t see why it wasn’t appropriate to remove some of the burst off a Power Nade build either. Which is especially the case when the concept of standing inside your opponent to deal the proc barrage damage was so obtuse. HGH Power Nades is still frightening to see when that single Grenade Barrage can do 2/3 of the original combo still, and has vicious amounts of condi-dmg for direct-dmg build. I think we are okay in this area.

irakai.6891:

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I honestly thought I had acknowledged turret fragility in one of my posts here, if I haven’t I apologize. I know how weak they are to AoE. I kill them without problem lately in hotjoin as a Condi-Burst build. I know Turret AI is junk and since the devs have already said that’s a problem I figure they are working on that still. That doesn’t mean they aren’t viable. I mean most people still group their darn turrets up at a control point and then complain they get AoE’d on. I don’t think I’ve ever seen another Engineer in-game actually put a Rocket & Rifle Turret off-point before and make me choose to have to go kill them individually or take the punishment they can now deliver. Really here, the whole point is I don’t know if they are viable or not, but I’m not going to simply claim they aren’t viable because no one knows yet if that’s true.

In terms of build diversity we still have a fair bunch. HGH builds are what I’d consider the community finds at minimum usable in tPvP. Inside HGH builds there is actually a fair amount of diversity in terms of direct-dmg, condi-dmg, Grenade Kit, Tool Kit, and I’ve heard tale of some using Bomb Kit successfully in that kind of setup. Duo Kits without a stun break is actually pretty reasonable now too without insta-gibs from Quickness. This build opened up the possibility of some successful turret builds and improved the Static Discharge build. The last patch opened up the possible success of the Flamethrower in a control-damage build. I mean, the entire point of the mostly buff-centric patch notes concerning the Engineer is to bring other builds into viability. I really think we gained more then we lost, especially since HGH Power Nades simply takes the place of 100 Nades now.

Don’t call yourself bad, I highly doubt that. The average person who goes on a gaming forums is generally much better than the average player. I can’t know this for certain, as there is no way to really get to know someone through a short forum discussion, but I think if there is a problem is just mentally. By that I mean you might be handicapping yourself by restricting yourself on builds because you potentially just see as non-viable without really heavily playtesting it. There are so many common things people say we absolutely need in our builds… but do we actually need them? Playing with low amounts of condi-removal, without stun breaks, without maximum damage, and many other common lines of thinking aren’t necessarily correct.

In terms of 100 Nades, I imagine the delay was primarily because they weren’t sure if they should get rid of it. Given this is all speculation, but simply because they take a while at nerfing the build doesn’t show detachment to me. It shows patience, testing, and responsibility. Again here, perspective changes a lot how you can look at something. When you see something negative and I see something positive, what does it mean?

Would a Public Test Server be a good thing for GW2? Probably, I’d love to see it. I mean I agree I think things would be much better in general with a PTS then the way things are now. Perhaps we could catch some of those bugs and the like before they go live that they didn’t find. Maybe our balance feedback could be continual rather than monthly. That being said, I highly doubt they are structured internally to deal with a PTS and the introduction of it is ultimately up to them.

Sigil of Geomancy vs. Sigil of Battle is also a point of contention that many argue over. There are great arguments for both sides of that discussion I think. Battle is better if you have to swap at a range, and Geomancy is better if you can hit them with the proc. Geomancy requires swaps at close range though, which can obviously be limiting.

irakai.6891:

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Yes I’ve tried Turret builds pre-patch. My impression has always been that Turrets are too vulnerable. That doesn’t make my impression correct though, and with these changes I see many of the Turrets being more feasible to use. A pair of damage Turrets right now appear to actually be rather threatening. What I see are steps on the right path from ANet involving turrets. Are they done? I’m not sure. I think Turrets could very well be viable and competitive now in some situations. The keyword is could though, as with first glance I think there still needs to be more work in the area.

That is also what I got from the State of the Game discussion. They have the right plan. The right ideas. Buffing things that are weak so that build diversity is increased. That is the fundamental problem in Guild Wars 2 and they are frankly addressing it. I think a key difference in the dissent between many opinions and my own though is I acknowledge that these things are going to take time. The Engineer is not the only profession and they are trying to be careful about not overpowering anything. No matter how good your QA team is, things will get through a patch that are suddenly way stronger then you anticipated. They’ve been really good at not letting those things through via their small incremental changes. I like this and I think it’s wonderful design. This is why I’m optimistic.

Specifically with Kit Refinement, I think people will figure out how to make good use of it. It will take a bit of work, especially in multi-kit builds, but I think it still has a place. I don’t think this trait is lost by any means, and I don’t think it was necessarily to a successful direct-dmg build.

When you mention playing a class throughout, what level is through enough for you? No single person will find all the quirks, bugs, strengths, and weaknesses of a class if they specifically played it trying to find them all for years. When I looked at Kit Refinement forever involving Grenade Kit, did I ever think to try to and stand inside someone and use it? Heck no, and I don’t see why they would’ve picked up on that either. I’m sure they found tons of abusive mechanics that none of us will ever know of. That’s why I think this kind of discussion is absurd, because we pick apart the small things that make it through (like they do in every game) while having no knowledge of all the other stuff that has been caught. It’s a huge difference in perspective.

I didn’t mean to say that you said they should be fired, but I do think some people have been skirting the line or have actually said it. That or the discussion has been very close to that sort of thing. This may be an assumption on my part though, or maybe it’s coming from some of the stuff over from the sPvP forums. Just to be clear though, I didn’t mean to imply you said they should be fired and I apologize for that.

Since I took notes and created a thread on the topic, I think you can have my assurances that I watched it. To me it’s astonishing that that State of the Game wasn’t wonderful to hear from everyone. I loved the Engineer discussion and am very optimistic of the Engineer future because of it. The patch only gave me more evidence to support my optimistic impression.

The previous Kit Refinement change was terrible, and I talked about it back then too. The rest of the changes at the time were wonderful though. We all talked about how Kit Refinement should’ve been nerfed in a different way, and what did they do? They did pretty much exactly what we all discussed back then. They nerfed it and took the internal cooldowns on top of internal cooldowns away to simplify it.

The assumption they didn’t play Engineers with Kit Refinement to me is absurd. The assumption they lack QA testing is absurd as well. It adds nothing to the argument at hand. If you want to discuss how much you disagree with the changes, that’s great. That’s real discussion and there are points to be made on both sides. Assumptions that are inflammatory and boil down to “the devs are bad at their job” add absolutely nothing to the discussion and only serve to remove any good discussion that was around. Why should a dev read a thread that is essentially nothing but “you should be fired” from what is very likely someone who has no industry knowledge at all? There are ways to discuss all this, and even if I disagree with you there are good points in what is brought up. The way it’s brought about now though accomplishes almost nothing.

I remember probably only a few months ago discussing a Grenade Condi HGH build and it being dismissed as not even close to viable next to things like Static Discharge or Condi-Bunker builds. (“Offhand Pistol is terrible!”) Open your minds, there are other effective builds out there. Do not intentionally pigeonhole yourself into a single build because the community sees it as viable. If previous history means anything, then it’s very likely there are other viable builds out there the community doesn’t know about.

I’ll fully agree the Kit Refinement change removes the 100 Nades burst, but the HGH Power Nades was a build that still was viable before that and even has more survival. Turrets honestly show plenty of potential and Static Discharge got plenty of buffs this time around. Every patch we get one nerf, and a whole lotta buffs. Everyone always focuses on that one nerf irregardless whether it was too strong or not and says the Engineer always gets nerfed yada yada poor us. Yet, we are just fine.

There are far too many assumptions in this thread. Apparently we can pick and choose what the devs say and determine it as lies or truth depending on whether it supports our argument or not. I don’t see how this discussion does anything at all to help us, and from the look on this thread I’d honestly feel the desire to not even balance the Engineer at all anymore. Which is probably the opposite effect you all want, but then I will assume alongside all these other assumptions they are professional enough to ignore these kind of threads.

Well, I pretty much only played sPvP for the first several months of release as a mix of a Mesmer and Engineer. I thought Confusion was pretty powerful back then. When I went to WvW it simply blew my mind. I honestly think the sPvP Confusion damage is appropriate to players in all situations.

Nothing was promised, it was merely mentioned. Discussing possible changes in a State of the Game is by no means a binding contract for the next patch. It could be in a later patch or it could be decided against completely.

The only condi-buffs I think we need are in Explosive Shot and underutilized builds anyway. Our strongest condi-builds are actually pretty competitive as they are. Heck, they are seen as fully competitive in today’s tPvP metagame.

They really need to make the distinction for Confusion damage PvP vs. PvE not sPvP vs. Everything Else. Confusion is far too strong in the current state for WvW. I honestly think that without that max condi-duration and HgH would be fine.

I’m very happy with the changes. To me it looks like the devs know what they are doing and are moving the Engineer forward. Seems to be too slow for some people, but honestly they have another seven classes to deal with so it’s simply going to be slow.

Considering they were looking at giving it buffs I’m honestly not too terribly concerned, and whatever they do I can deal with anyway.

I honestly don’t see it as risk when we are looking at primarily improving 2 second durations to 4 second durations. No one has enough condi-removal to remove them continually without either running out of cooldowns or spending too much time not dealing damage back. It wasn’t the case when I had 50% duration, and it isn’t the case when I have 100%. It does mean if someone lacks condition removal though they get absolutely crushed with the incredibly high durations though. WvW Confusion makes this pretty silly too. Honestly I dislike Tool Kit, but it’s so bloody effective with a Pry Bar hit it’s silly not to use it.

One of the bigger parts I like about condition duration increases in general is it buffs all the control conditions as well. Glue Shot is pretty threatening with 2 second durations.

Now if only I had a Giver’s Jewel to pick from in sPvP or something.

Surprise Shot does seem like it’d have enough to keep doing with Quickness. That old build seems like it’d do better with the upgrades. Elixir U, Rifle Turret, and Tool Kit. I do wonder how bursty Tool Kit autos would feel under Quickness. Oh it does make me curious.

I don’t even think Rifle auto’s would be sturdy enough to base Quickness on, but then I haven’t tried that since nearly Beta. Elixir U can probably find some decent direct damage based auto to work well off of, it just wouldn’t be anything like the autos a Thief, Ranger, or Warrior can output though.

If Explosive Shot was buffed, then maybe it could work in a condi build. I’d still see more Condi-Burst out of Geomancy alone though then quickened Explosive Shot autos even if the bleed was doubled. I’m skeptical of it in general I guess, but I would love to be proven wrong here.

Problem with Elixir U to me is Quickness doesn’t feel that great without decent no-cooldown abilities. I could be every much wrong here though.

Boon Duration is probably better then specifically increasing Might Duration, I’d agree with that. There are a lot of other boons in the build.

I admit, it would be a whole lot easier to balance if they made those the only viable builds. Even if it was strictly a bunch of 1 kit builds with condi, direct-dmg, and bunker variants you’d have plenty of build diversity.

I don’t think that they want specifically 1-kit builds though, that’s just speculation.

If you run with Geomancy, the general combo is you charge in with Pistol attacks finish with a Blowtorch, swap to Grenade Kit, and land Shrapnel Grenades. Teldo has many videos of it I imagine, hopefully someone else can be more specific.

I advise against chugging most of the elixirs on cooldown, and instead just use them when you need them. A change on the build with runes for Might and such though can make that viable though.

NevirSayDie.6235:

There was a line in the patch notes that condition duration bugs for some gear pieces had been fixed. It didn’t specifically mention giver’s.

Yeah that’s why I’m hopeful, but I figure some testing needs to make sure of it.

As long as the actual projectile doesn’t hit the wall we should be able to get at least a little further back then it was previously. I can’t really see this allowing us to hit the back of a wall though, unless the grenades get some extra special arc treatment. I don’t think this will be a huge fundamental change and is instead mostly quality of life when dealing with LoS issues.

Oh no, I don’t blame them at all. It’s actually fun to see actually.

I’ve never actually read the General Discussion forums, crazy.

Hey Goloith, have you tested Giver’s weapons yet? Are they fixed?

Do you want to run without any Kit? Tool Kit? Grenade Kit? That can change the types of builds delivered. The biggest thing is at least 10 points in Firearms and 30 points in Alchemy with P/P, Elixir B, and Elixir S most likely. Or at least that is the most common, because frankly even what is most common isn’t necessarily what works for you.

It looks like the exact same patch notes from February, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it got left in as a remnant of that.

I’ll be honest, it’s too early to tell if they will be competitive or not. They received some pretty good buffs and may either be well on their way to being competitive or already there.

It fixed a bug. It used to be a Necro with +133% condition duration could still apply conditions to you. They apparently fixed that, so that you are still immune.

The new Rifle Turret looks pretty promising. I agree playing without a stun break will be a lot easier with the Quickness nerfs. I honestly thought playing without a stun break before was viable as well though, so it only solidifies my position on that.

There are so many Turrets in hotjoin right now it’s hilarious.