Guild Wars 2

aydos.8259:

I was given Best Buy gift cards for my bday to purchase this game.

Apparently Best Buy is not selling the Digital Download until the game is released.

I saw that you can buy the pre-order from the Black Lion in game store, but it does not take gems only cash.

Is there not a way to pre-order the game from Best Buy.

I do not see an obvious way, but I was hoping I am missing something. I already checked to see if they sold Amazon Gift Cards and they do not.

Exchange it with someone you know for cash.

Essence Snow.3194:

Ayrilana.1396:

RapidSausage.4620:

Ayrilana.1396:

I suggest doing the PvP dailies (all 4) and the reward tracks. I have gotten a full set worth of ascended armor chests and about 8 ascended weapon chests. Much cheaper than crafting them but you do rely on RNG more.

Which reward tracks are you talking about exactly??

Any of them work as you want the loot boxes. I normally hoard those loot boxes until one of the PvP weekends with the MF buff and then open all of them. I’ve gotten most of them over the past six months or so just doing the daily achievements.

I have done all the pvp dailies on two accounts and have gotten exactly nada from in terms of ascended armor or weapon boxes, What I have gotten are ascended junk rings. So this is not a reliable method for all to say the least.

The best chances for ascended drops (armor/weapons) come from higher level fractals.

I never said that it was.

RapidSausage.4620:

Ayrilana.1396:

I suggest doing the PvP dailies (all 4) and the reward tracks. I have gotten a full set worth of ascended armor chests and about 8 ascended weapon chests. Much cheaper than crafting them but you do rely on RNG more.

Which reward tracks are you talking about exactly??

Any of them work as you want the loot boxes. I normally hoard those loot boxes until one of the PvP weekends with the MF buff and then open all of them. I’ve gotten most of them over the past six months or so just doing the daily achievements.

I suggest doing the PvP dailies (all 4) and the reward tracks. I have gotten a full set worth of ascended armor chests and about 8 ascended weapon chests. Much cheaper than crafting them but you do rely on RNG more.

Nokaru.7831:

Test.8734:

So yeah, saying that ascended gear being grindy is ok because it’s optional is completely irrelevant – by ArenaNet’s own definition, it was not meant to be grindy. Despite how it is.

Is your definition of grind “anything I’m unwilling to do”?

Pretty much. Notice how he conveniently left out the next section in that link of his about what Anet considers grind to be? It pretty much counters his argument of what Anet’s definition of grind is. Of course, he likely was full aware of it and leaving that part out was intentional because it doesn’t fit the narrative of his argument.

Zeross.3576:

Is “white knight” a insult? Actually not, it’s a word that happens to describe your role in this topic, but it doesn’t insult you as a person since I don’t even know you.

It’s frequently used as an insult on forums to demean a person rather than their argument. It’s never used as a compliment or at least not from what I have seen on these forums.

Since you’re done, and that I don’t feel like getting into this further, I’ll end it here as well.

Astralporing.1957:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Neural.1824:

Therodin.2970:

We have always had a non RNG way, buying them off of the trading post. So what people wanted is a new way with less cost and more grind.

What Anet appears to be delivering is “same cost, more grind.”

What would be better then? More cost, less grind or less cost, more grind? (They aren’t going to give you both less cost and less grind so that’s not an option).

More cost is the tp option. This one should be more effort, less materials and gold required.

Which, based on what we have seen so far, is true.

He’s using daylight savings or something.

Zeross.3576:

Ayrilana.1396:

Doesn’t matter. You complained that you’re being charged for the core game and the expansion content where new players get both for the same price. Same deal with Skyrim. I bought Skyrim for $60. If I were to get the expansion content, I would buy the legendary edition which includes the original game.

Oh. Insults also tend to make anything you say come off as less credible.

Insults? “White knight”? If you felt that as an insult, maybe that’s because you have a guilty conscience

By the way, the fault in your logic is very simple, my dear friend: GW2 vanilla was still sold at 25-30$/€ before becoming f2p.
It’s not like the game decreased its price over time, excluding the online cd key stores that aren’t always trustworthy.
Does that means Arena.net has to refund all the players who have bought the game? Obviously not.
But making pay the expansion without any sort of discount for old players and giving that sop of char’s slot, meh, isn’t very classy of them.

I make an example:
Blizzard, with WoW, made every expansion around 20-30$ (or €), but if you don’t have the vanilla game and the previous expansions you can’t play the new content.
What does that mean? That old players are, somehow, advantaged in buying just the expansion, but new players have to buy the whole package.. but the vanilla’s and old expansions’ prices drop every time.

Said so, my point of view on the matter is simple: I will not buy the expansion at day one, I will probably wait the price drops to what I think is a fair price for a expansion, and I don’t think I’m the only one to think that otherwise this topic wouldn’t have 7k replies.

So if I spout off an insult against you, and it offends you, then that must mean you have a guilty conscience. Yeah… makes a lot of sense.

It doesn’t matter what the original game sold for. Your complaint was that you felt you were buying the core game with the expansion which was wrong.

This isn’t WoW. GW2 and WoW have different business models. Anet stated there reasoning for why new players get the core game as a free bonus.

This topic as 7K replies because it’s a compilation of all threads related to this subject. If you feel that the number of posts in this thread is relevant then the people who want mounts deserve to have that addressed before the people in this thread.

Almeida.6458:

Ayrilana.1396:

Almeida.6458:

Ayrilana.1396:

Almeida.6458:

Ashen.2907:

Almeida.6458:

in my opinion PLAYERS THAT SUPPORTED THE GAME SINCE ITS LAUNCH ARE GETTING SHAFTED.

Fixed that for you.

I too am passing on the expansion, not because of some idea of it being a, “scumbag move,” because charging for the product you spent millions of dollars developing is not a scumbag move, but because the expansion doesn’t really have anything worth paying for IMO.

Yes, I’m sharing my opinion on the matter. And as far as I’m concerned, yes it is a scumbag move. Of course they have to charge, but it wouldn’t kill their launch if either the previous owners of GW2 got a discount on the expansion, or there was an option to buy the expansion NOT INCLUDING THE CORE GAME.

Yes, this is a move that’s getting more and more common in the games industry. Still, it doesn’t make it any less of a scumbag move.

You can buy the expansion without the core game right now. It’s $50.

No game franchise has ever given discounts to existing players otherwise it would be no different than just marking it down completely to the lower price.

Let me point you out to Elder Scrolls Online, for example, that on their move to f2p gave several compensations to existing players that would continue the subscription to “ESO Plus”, as well as compensation for everyone that had a subscription even if they wouldn’t continue with it.

Stating that “No game franchise has ever given discounts to existing players” is just spreading misinformation to suit your opinion on the matter.

Compensation is not the same as discount. If you look at your post, you’ll see you were talking about price. There’s no spreading of misinformation by me. Just you changing things around to suit your argument.

Because a compensation that has monetary value (in ESO case, the cash shop currency amongst other things) is abismally different from a discount (that has—you guessed it—monetary value), right?

If you want to discuss semantics, do it with someone else, buddy o/

There is a difference between a price discount and offering something such as a free character slot. There’s also a difference between offering an item at a direct discount versus the discount being in store credit.

Zeross.3576:

Ayrilana.1396:

Zeross.3576:

I’m not gonna spend 45€ for a expansion that includes the vanilla content, since I already bought GW2 vanilla on 2012.
It doesn’t seem right, I mean new players get base game+expansion at the same price old players get only the expansion?
If it was half the price for players who already own GW2 then I would have understood and maybe have bought it, but at the moment it doesn’t look very appealing.
And 1 character’s slot surely doesn’t cover the overprice of the expansion, let’s not even joke about it.

Skyrim Legendary Edition for $40.

Expansion/DLC content $45

Skyrim basic edition originally sold for $60

So new players get everything for $40 when old players had to pay $105. Or even cheaper than that. What a rip off, right? /sarcasm

This has been the norm in the industry for quite some time…

And FYI, you’re not being charged for the core game of GW2. It’s free for those who purchase the expansion and apply it towards a new or F2P account.

Skyrim is not free to play and it’s a singleplayer game without microtransaction: 1/10.

Next white knight, pls.

Doesn’t matter. You complained that you’re being charged for the core game and the expansion content where new players get both for the same price. Same deal with Skyrim. I bought Skyrim for $60. If I were to get the expansion content, I would buy the legendary edition which includes the original game.

Oh. Insults also tend to make anything you say come off as less credible.

Almeida.6458:

Ayrilana.1396:

Almeida.6458:

Ashen.2907:

Almeida.6458:

in my opinion PLAYERS THAT SUPPORTED THE GAME SINCE ITS LAUNCH ARE GETTING SHAFTED.

Fixed that for you.

I too am passing on the expansion, not because of some idea of it being a, “scumbag move,” because charging for the product you spent millions of dollars developing is not a scumbag move, but because the expansion doesn’t really have anything worth paying for IMO.

Yes, I’m sharing my opinion on the matter. And as far as I’m concerned, yes it is a scumbag move. Of course they have to charge, but it wouldn’t kill their launch if either the previous owners of GW2 got a discount on the expansion, or there was an option to buy the expansion NOT INCLUDING THE CORE GAME.

Yes, this is a move that’s getting more and more common in the games industry. Still, it doesn’t make it any less of a scumbag move.

You can buy the expansion without the core game right now. It’s $50.

No game franchise has ever given discounts to existing players otherwise it would be no different than just marking it down completely to the lower price.

Let me point you out to Elder Scrolls Online, for example, that on their move to f2p gave several compensations to existing players that would continue the subscription to “ESO Plus”, as well as compensation for everyone that had a subscription even if they wouldn’t continue with it.

Stating that “No game franchise has ever given discounts to existing players” is just spreading misinformation to suit your opinion on the matter.

Compensation is not the same as discount. If you look at your post, you’ll see you were talking about price. There’s no spreading of misinformation by me. Just you changing things around to suit your argument.

maddoctor.2738:

Rasimir.6239:

maddoctor.2738:

Bomber.3872:

Even the most expensive pre’s cost less than 50% of a legendary. I don’t really understand why this thread is always shifted to the ‘I want it cheaper’ idea. Cheaper pre would mean cheaper legendary’s and we all now that anet since release never wanted to change that overall legendary price.

I’ll repeat one more time:
If selling the mats (means you went and played the fun part to get those mats, no skipping of the fun part) required to make a legendary earns you enough money to buy the precursor on the TP and then leave you with lots of extra gold, then what’s the point of this new system?

Having fun on the precursor journey?

Believe it or not, there are plenty of people around who enjoy traveling the world with a purpose in mind, collecting and crafting their own stuff, without caring about selling/rebuying for optimized coin gain.

Let’s say you don’t want to buy the precursor on the TP but instead you go on the fun journey to make the precursor yourself! You travel the world and complete various fun challenges, making the game much more fun and enjoyable in the process. The system works well so far.

Here is the tricky part, once you gather everything in order to craft your precursor, you realize that if you sell everything that is sellable, you will earn enough gold to buy the precursor and then have enough left-overs to begin a new one (!!!)

And to be a bit more exact, according to my calculations selling (not buying) all materials needed to craft the Colossus will net you ~400g, I used a lot of assumptions to reach that price but it doesn’t include the price to craft many of the items needed for the collection itself. For example, they tell us you will need to craft the container that will hold the oozes, you might need to craft the food for your ooze, and so on and so on. In other words, crafting the Colossus might well require materials that if you SELL them you will earn way more than 400g.

If all precursors are like that then the whole process is useless for any precursor that is worth below 400g. What’s the point in collecting materials that will give you 400g if the precursor itself is 200g, just sell the mats and BUY it instead of crafting it! The mats you got having fun and being on the journey btw.

Keep in mind that Anet did mention a time element when trying to match the precursor crafting value to the value of existing precursors. You keep trying to fill in the gap that you see with more direct costs through crafting without considering that the gap (not necessarily all of it) consists of the value of the time spent doing the various tasks.

Otherwise, if they’re doing what you think they are, none of the precursor collections would be worth doing since the material costs would equal the cost of precursors on the TP but disregard the time spent doing the tasks which you could have used to farm gold.

Iason Evan.3806:

Wanze.8410:

Iason Evan.3806:

Here’s how it is gonna play out: A player that wants Howler isn’t gonna do the precursor quest for Howler. They will do it for whatever precursor is the most expensive that they personally don’t want or like. They will sell that and buy the pre for Howler and have leftover money to put towards their T6 mats etc.

I thought a little more about this and i dont think its neccessarily a bad thing because it brings precursor prices more in line.

Expensive ones get produced amd sold more often and cheaper ones get bought more from the tp.

I get that and think you’re right. My issue with it is they designed account bound pre crafting around the TP instead of around being a better way for people to avoid RNG and have less frustration and more fun. Legendaries should be fun to do all the things for. It should be a good time. It shouldn’t devolve into “how can I make this thing with as little frustration as possible?” Unfortunately, that’s what it is.

Account bound precursor crafting? You mean the precursors for the new legendaries? Or did you mean the precursors for the legendaries that we can get right now?

Almeida.6458:

Ashen.2907:

Almeida.6458:

in my opinion PLAYERS THAT SUPPORTED THE GAME SINCE ITS LAUNCH ARE GETTING SHAFTED.

Fixed that for you.

I too am passing on the expansion, not because of some idea of it being a, “scumbag move,” because charging for the product you spent millions of dollars developing is not a scumbag move, but because the expansion doesn’t really have anything worth paying for IMO.

Yes, I’m sharing my opinion on the matter. And as far as I’m concerned, yes it is a scumbag move. Of course they have to charge, but it wouldn’t kill their launch if either the previous owners of GW2 got a discount on the expansion, or there was an option to buy the expansion NOT INCLUDING THE CORE GAME.

Yes, this is a move that’s getting more and more common in the games industry. Still, it doesn’t make it any less of a scumbag move.

You can buy the expansion without the core game right now. It’s $50.

No game franchise has ever given discounts to existing players otherwise it would be no different than just marking it down completely to the lower price.

Zeross.3576:

I’m not gonna spend 45€ for a expansion that includes the vanilla content, since I already bought GW2 vanilla on 2012.
It doesn’t seem right, I mean new players get base game+expansion at the same price old players get only the expansion?
If it was half the price for players who already own GW2 then I would have understood and maybe have bought it, but at the moment it doesn’t look very appealing.
And 1 character’s slot surely doesn’t cover the overprice of the expansion, let’s not even joke about it.

Skyrim Legendary Edition for $40.

Expansion/DLC content $45

Skyrim basic edition originally sold for $60

So new players get everything for $40 when old players had to pay $105. Or even cheaper than that. What a rip off, right? /sarcasm

This has been the norm in the industry for quite some time…

And FYI, you’re not being charged for the core game of GW2. It’s free for those who purchase the expansion and apply it towards a new or F2P account.

Rozbuska.5263:

Ayrilana.1396:

Rozbuska.5263:

Seriusly I wasnt this angry for many years. Move like this is something what I expected from some 3rd world mobile gaming shady company but not from you. Yes I am talking about change to finishers.

Its what.. A day ago? when you added all finishers to gem store with ‘buy them for full price before they will gone’ and let us think you removing them for half of year as you doing it with rest of the stuff. But now you add them to BL chests and made them worthless.

A day ago I spend on them 9350 gems. Thats over 2k gold. I demand now my gems back because this was dirty fraud.

You do realize that it costs gems to buy black lion keys and you’re not gauranteed a specific finisher?

Open Trading Post and write ‘finisher’ thank you.

That’s new and prices could likely rise once people figure out they’re there. Contact support then and ask for a refund. Far more productive than claiming fraud.

Rozbuska.5263:

Seriusly I wasnt this angry for many years. Move like this is something what I expected from some 3rd world mobile gaming shady company but not from you. Yes I am talking about change to finishers.

Its what.. A day ago? when you added all finishers to gem store with ‘buy them for full price before they will gone’ and let us think you removing them for half of year as you doing it with rest of the stuff. But now you add them to BL chests and made them worthless.

A day ago I spend on them 9350 gems. Thats over 2k gold. I demand now my gems back because this was dirty fraud.

You do realize that it costs gems to buy black lion keys and you’re not guaranteed a specific finisher?

maddoctor.2738:

Ayrilana.1396:

Neural.1824:

Superfrick.1536:

To be honest, I feel betrayed. I’ve spent the better part of 3 years gathering the materials, throwing away crafted exotics and rares into the RNG pit and such for my legendary; failing at every turn and ready to walk away from the game forever.

I came back to the game with the promise that getting a precursor would be a journey and not be something else in the game attached to the gold standard pretty much anything else is. I got the $100 version of the game and translated 4,400 gems into gold to buy the T6 mats I still needed.

I expected a bunch of quests and kill X dudes that eventually got me account bound stuff that then let me make an account bound “The Legend”. But nope, it’s more time gated crafting and expensive material sinks.

I’m sorry you learned the hard way on this one. Arenanet isn’t going to make any changes that would affect the current transaction rates and prices on the Trading Post. You can fully expect to pay just as much gold to “craft” a precursor as you currently would to just buy one off the TP.

It’ll likely be less direct gold needed to get a precursor from the collections than buy off the TP. There will be a time element included which will bring the value of the collections in line with existing precursor prices.

This will depend on the precursor and if the materials required for each one will be the same or not. I can redirect you to my post with all the math about it, how selling the mats needed to craft Colossus (sell not buy) will net you ~400g. While the precursor itself is at 800g (so double the value of materials) What does that mean for a precursor that costs 190g on the TP? Is the difference between precursors going to be so huge?

And let’s say that indeed some precursor are very cheap compared to others. For how long? And how will they ensure the prices stay that way in the long run? (hint: they can’t, it’s a player driven market). I really doubt precursors that currently cost less than 200g will cost 200g to craft, while precursors that cost 1000g will require 1000g to craft, that would be just silly.

Yeah I forgot to take that into consideration.

Neural.1824:

Ayrilana.1396:

Neural.1824:

Superfrick.1536:

To be honest, I feel betrayed. I’ve spent the better part of 3 years gathering the materials, throwing away crafted exotics and rares into the RNG pit and such for my legendary; failing at every turn and ready to walk away from the game forever.

I came back to the game with the promise that getting a precursor would be a journey and not be something else in the game attached to the gold standard pretty much anything else is. I got the $100 version of the game and translated 4,400 gems into gold to buy the T6 mats I still needed.

I expected a bunch of quests and kill X dudes that eventually got me account bound stuff that then let me make an account bound “The Legend”. But nope, it’s more time gated crafting and expensive material sinks.

I’m sorry you learned the hard way on this one. Arenanet isn’t going to make any changes that would affect the current transaction rates and prices on the Trading Post. You can fully expect to pay just as much gold to “craft” a precursor as you currently would to just buy one off the TP.

It’ll likely be less direct gold needed to get a precursor from the collections than buy off the TP. There will be a time element included which will bring the value of the collections in line with existing precursor prices.

Unless “less direct gold” is a good 40% of the overall cost, collections will not be worth it, because you can bet that the amount of time required to get everything done will be much longer than you would have to spend farming gold straight up.

I’ll be quite happy to eat crow and be wrong about this, but I seriously doubt there is anyway in which this new method will be remotely economical compared to the almighty cash-to-gold method.

Maybe or maybe it’ll be on par with that. That way you can be doing something fun to complete the collections rather than farming gold the entire time.

Probably won’t be reverted so once again it pays to be on right after an update.

Neural.1824:

Superfrick.1536:

To be honest, I feel betrayed. I’ve spent the better part of 3 years gathering the materials, throwing away crafted exotics and rares into the RNG pit and such for my legendary; failing at every turn and ready to walk away from the game forever.

I came back to the game with the promise that getting a precursor would be a journey and not be something else in the game attached to the gold standard pretty much anything else is. I got the $100 version of the game and translated 4,400 gems into gold to buy the T6 mats I still needed.

I expected a bunch of quests and kill X dudes that eventually got me account bound stuff that then let me make an account bound “The Legend”. But nope, it’s more time gated crafting and expensive material sinks.

I’m sorry you learned the hard way on this one. Arenanet isn’t going to make any changes that would affect the current transaction rates and prices on the Trading Post. You can fully expect to pay just as much gold to “craft” a precursor as you currently would to just buy one off the TP.

It’ll likely be less direct gold needed to get a precursor from the collections than buy off the TP. There will be a time element included which will bring the value of the collections in line with existing precursor prices.

I’m pretty sure they would have us download it during the release week and then run an update that unlocks it.

Showbiz.9725:

I’m lvl 42 and I accidentally used the exp booster that gives “+50% exp in all game types, +50% PvP reward track gain, and up to +100% bonus exp on kill streaks”. I logged out to save the timer =P

http://i.imgur.com/WJ9Pvi6.jpg

What are the best activities for me to do to take advantage of this? I was thinking about leveling up cooking to 400 while it was active. I can afford all the mats right now at around 8g. But it also has PvP bonuses and I’m not sure what that does exactly. Would it be better to sit in Edge of the Mists the whole time? Or can I just continue on my way doing open PvE leveling zones

Anyways, I don’t want to waste this thing because I don’t even know how valuable it is. So if anyone could give some advice that would be helpful

Thanks

I would personally do EotM.

It wouldn’t hurt to prepare anyway and set up your bank before creating a new beta character.

Sephas.8793:

Honestly, ANet never gives a specific time for patches/updates because, often times, they are working on them up until the last minute.

I thought it was said to be live at 12pm pacific.

Mirta.5029:

Ayrilana.1396:

Most of the complaints back then focused on the lack of a character slot while still charging that price. Many did not want to may out another $10 so they could play the new class. You’d notice that the issue relatively died down after they added the character slot.

that should mean that the issue should come up again after the expansion’s released, because the free character slot was added as a prepurchase bonus only :I

And?

Most of the complaints back then focused on the lack of a character slot while still charging that price. Many did not want to may out another $10 so they could play the new class. You’d notice that the issue relatively died down after they added the character slot.

It’s not always pricing a product at a price to maximize profit at its release. I showed you an example above where that pricing it at a premium (as some people like to call it), and then reducing the price a little while after its release, could provide you more profit. You’re too focused at an all or nothing where the sales must occur at or before its release or they won’t occur at all.

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

VictorTroska.3725:

ArenaNet, lower expansion price to 30 €. I guarantee your sales will increase so much that it will surpass current numbers with 45 € price tag by tenfold. Just ask Gabe Newell.

As stated someone else, since you guarantee it, are you willing to bet your own money and pay someone else?

The 30 euro your suggesting is about $33.50 in the U.S. How many existing players do you think will not purchase the expansion between now and when Anet does reduce the price? Would the $17.50 loss in sales from each player, be cancelled out by the ones hesitating to buy the expansion now purchasing it? Would the new price bring in enough new players, who would not have bought it at $50, to cancel out the loss Anet would take?

thats what finding a price point is all about, I’d say yes. Especially since the cost per consumer is minute, they have nigh infinite inventory, and each new user adds little in terms of cost.
Not to mention a system that profits from selling stuff to players who are fairly engaged with the game.

Of course its impossible to know for sure without testing it both ways. Truth is i probably would have prepurchased without much questions if they had a lower cost and a release date(about 40 bucks). Now that some places are selling it at an even lower price, i still hesitate, because the info they released looks grim. I’m waiting for some critical player feedback now.

of course we ll never no for sure unless we tested both scenarios.

Except if the majority of players were willing to pay the $50 (only Anet would know the actual percentage) then there would be no point in testing to see what would happen if the price were reduced. Based on that, the rest of the players who would forego purchasing the expansion, and the new players who would only have purchased the game if it were at that lower price, would in no way compensate for the loss.

Its fairly likely that the majority of people who bought gw2 did not purchase gw2 hot. Because at this point last time they had already released preorder numbers in the millions.
Not only that, but you couldnt even measure it with the number of initial gw2 sales, because the overall market for MMOs is much higher than gw2 sales ever were.

anyhow, even assuming a perfect non expanding pool of players, your math is wrong, even with a majority of players accepting the price you can still be at a bad price point.

51% of people will buy at 50 dollars
81% of people will buy at 40 dollars
91% of people will buy at 30 dollars

81 is the best price point given that data. Stopping at 51% you would lose out on 27% more earnings.

finding the right price point isnt as simple as majority is ok.

in fact with their system, if they could get the same exact profit, but more customers, they would profit more in the long term.
so IF they could find the proper 81% price that would equal a 51% price point, it would be better to go for the 81% because they would make more money off that extra 30% in the long term

That’s assuming the percentages you listed are accurate. You’re also forgetting about opportunity cost as Anet is loosing out on the difference of the $59 and whatever new price point you set.

I don’t see how my math is wrong when I didn’t even do any.

the game is 49 dollars not 59, and im including the opportunity cost.

i made up numbers but you dont need to make up the number to see how much more % you need to gain to profit.

you spoke about majority, majority is 51%
if 51% buy at 50 dollars that is equal to 63.5% buying at 40 dollars

so mathematically, if dropping the price gives you 13% more of the total, you would make MORE money.

its just math.
The problem is its generally impossible to find out for certain how much a price point will add to your totals. So you basically guess. People almost always guess wrong. Generally takes years of data to find the right point, and even then you are never certain if it was the right answer at that moment in time.

Based on the initial high backlash though, and the market standard for expansions, i dont think they picked the right price point. You generally dont get a substantial backlash from the right price point.

I had meant $50. Majority means different things and you choosing the lowest possible value for it doesn’t make you any more right.

majority means 51 to 100 % 51 is used to show that majority is not the proper term.
but 51 is arbitrary, it can be many %

71% at 50 is equal to 88.75% at 40 dollars

the point is that losing a minority of people actually can very realistically lose you money.
if a 10 dollar drop is discouraging even 15% of buyers, you could be losing money.
even at 71% satisfaction, if 10 dollars cheaper would get you 18% more people it would be profitable.

now, there are other factors, like outside buyers, but along with that one must consider anet is way better off making the sale themselves than having people who wait for price drops from other retailers.

anyhow main point is for finding the right price point you cant simply look to majorities, its all about ratios

I’d go into the math but there’s no reason to. They can sell it at $50 and capture a certain percentage of the player population. They can then sell it at a reduced price later on and capture the rest.

EDIT #1:

Also, which I think you’re ignoring, if 80% of the player base were willing to spend $50 on the expansion, you’d need the entire population to purchase the expansion if it were priced at $40. If more than 80% were willing, then Anet would be taking a loss.

EDIT #2:

Let’s say there’s the player population consists of 100 people, to keep it simple, and we’re comparing between the expansion being $50 or $40.

If 80 people are willing to purchase the expansion at $50, this would bring in revenue of $4,000. In order to match that at $40, you’d need 100 people to purchase it.

If 51 people are willing to purchase the expansion at $50, this would bring in revenue of $2,550. In order to match that at $40, you’d need 63.75 people to purchase it.

If 51 people are willing to purchase the expansion at $50, this would bring in revenue of $2,550. If 49 people would be willing to pay $40, but no more, this would bring in revenue of $1,960. Total revenue would then be $4,510.

Out of option 2 and 3, option 3 is far superior. Anet can capture the sales from those 49 people at a later time. They also would only need 36.25 of those 49 to purchase the expansion at the price of $40 in order to break even with option 2.

The problem you’re not accounting for is how much more of the population will be willing to purchase the expansion at the $50 price between now and when it gets reduced.

Note: I will also add that those examples were out of a population of 100. You can easily refer to them as a percentage instead.

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

VictorTroska.3725:

ArenaNet, lower expansion price to 30 €. I guarantee your sales will increase so much that it will surpass current numbers with 45 € price tag by tenfold. Just ask Gabe Newell.

As stated someone else, since you guarantee it, are you willing to bet your own money and pay someone else?

The 30 euro your suggesting is about $33.50 in the U.S. How many existing players do you think will not purchase the expansion between now and when Anet does reduce the price? Would the $17.50 loss in sales from each player, be cancelled out by the ones hesitating to buy the expansion now purchasing it? Would the new price bring in enough new players, who would not have bought it at $50, to cancel out the loss Anet would take?

thats what finding a price point is all about, I’d say yes. Especially since the cost per consumer is minute, they have nigh infinite inventory, and each new user adds little in terms of cost.
Not to mention a system that profits from selling stuff to players who are fairly engaged with the game.

Of course its impossible to know for sure without testing it both ways. Truth is i probably would have prepurchased without much questions if they had a lower cost and a release date(about 40 bucks). Now that some places are selling it at an even lower price, i still hesitate, because the info they released looks grim. I’m waiting for some critical player feedback now.

of course we ll never no for sure unless we tested both scenarios.

Except if the majority of players were willing to pay the $50 (only Anet would know the actual percentage) then there would be no point in testing to see what would happen if the price were reduced. Based on that, the rest of the players who would forego purchasing the expansion, and the new players who would only have purchased the game if it were at that lower price, would in no way compensate for the loss.

Its fairly likely that the majority of people who bought gw2 did not purchase gw2 hot. Because at this point last time they had already released preorder numbers in the millions.
Not only that, but you couldnt even measure it with the number of initial gw2 sales, because the overall market for MMOs is much higher than gw2 sales ever were.

anyhow, even assuming a perfect non expanding pool of players, your math is wrong, even with a majority of players accepting the price you can still be at a bad price point.

51% of people will buy at 50 dollars
81% of people will buy at 40 dollars
91% of people will buy at 30 dollars

81 is the best price point given that data. Stopping at 51% you would lose out on 27% more earnings.

finding the right price point isnt as simple as majority is ok.

in fact with their system, if they could get the same exact profit, but more customers, they would profit more in the long term.
so IF they could find the proper 81% price that would equal a 51% price point, it would be better to go for the 81% because they would make more money off that extra 30% in the long term

That’s assuming the percentages you listed are accurate. You’re also forgetting about opportunity cost as Anet is loosing out on the difference of the $59 and whatever new price point you set.

I don’t see how my math is wrong when I didn’t even do any.

the game is 49 dollars not 59, and im including the opportunity cost.

i made up numbers but you dont need to make up the number to see how much more % you need to gain to profit.

you spoke about majority, majority is 51%
if 51% buy at 50 dollars that is equal to 63.5% buying at 40 dollars

so mathematically, if dropping the price gives you 13% more of the total, you would make MORE money.

its just math.
The problem is its generally impossible to find out for certain how much a price point will add to your totals. So you basically guess. People almost always guess wrong. Generally takes years of data to find the right point, and even then you are never certain if it was the right answer at that moment in time.

Based on the initial high backlash though, and the market standard for expansions, i dont think they picked the right price point. You generally dont get a substantial backlash from the right price point.

I had meant $50. Majority means different things and you choosing the lowest possible value for it doesn’t make you any more right.

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

VictorTroska.3725:

ArenaNet, lower expansion price to 30 €. I guarantee your sales will increase so much that it will surpass current numbers with 45 € price tag by tenfold. Just ask Gabe Newell.

As stated someone else, since you guarantee it, are you willing to bet your own money and pay someone else?

The 30 euro your suggesting is about $33.50 in the U.S. How many existing players do you think will not purchase the expansion between now and when Anet does reduce the price? Would the $17.50 loss in sales from each player, be cancelled out by the ones hesitating to buy the expansion now purchasing it? Would the new price bring in enough new players, who would not have bought it at $50, to cancel out the loss Anet would take?

thats what finding a price point is all about, I’d say yes. Especially since the cost per consumer is minute, they have nigh infinite inventory, and each new user adds little in terms of cost.
Not to mention a system that profits from selling stuff to players who are fairly engaged with the game.

Of course its impossible to know for sure without testing it both ways. Truth is i probably would have prepurchased without much questions if they had a lower cost and a release date(about 40 bucks). Now that some places are selling it at an even lower price, i still hesitate, because the info they released looks grim. I’m waiting for some critical player feedback now.

of course we ll never no for sure unless we tested both scenarios.

Except if the majority of players were willing to pay the $50 (only Anet would know the actual percentage) then there would be no point in testing to see what would happen if the price were reduced. Based on that, the rest of the players who would forego purchasing the expansion, and the new players who would only have purchased the game if it were at that lower price, would in no way compensate for the loss.

Its fairly likely that the majority of people who bought gw2 did not purchase gw2 hot. Because at this point last time they had already released preorder numbers in the millions.
Not only that, but you couldnt even measure it with the number of initial gw2 sales, because the overall market for MMOs is much higher than gw2 sales ever were.

anyhow, even assuming a perfect non expanding pool of players, your math is wrong, even with a majority of players accepting the price you can still be at a bad price point.

51% of people will buy at 50 dollars
81% of people will buy at 40 dollars
91% of people will buy at 30 dollars

81 is the best price point given that data. Stopping at 51% you would lose out on 27% more earnings.

finding the right price point isnt as simple as majority is ok.

in fact with their system, if they could get the same exact profit, but more customers, they would profit more in the long term.
so IF they could find the proper 81% price that would equal a 51% price point, it would be better to go for the 81% because they would make more money off that extra 30% in the long term

That’s assuming the percentages you listed are accurate. You’re also forgetting about opportunity cost as Anet is loosing out on the difference of the $59 and whatever new price point you set.

I don’t see how my math is wrong when I didn’t even do any.

Kind of relevant and also because I don’t want to go searching for it again:

All pre-HoT precursors crafted from the mastery collections will be sellable.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3mi5y2/twitchcon_day_2_panel_2_legendary_journey_notes/cvfpdys

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

VictorTroska.3725:

ArenaNet, lower expansion price to 30 €. I guarantee your sales will increase so much that it will surpass current numbers with 45 € price tag by tenfold. Just ask Gabe Newell.

As stated someone else, since you guarantee it, are you willing to bet your own money and pay someone else?

The 30 euro your suggesting is about $33.50 in the U.S. How many existing players do you think will not purchase the expansion between now and when Anet does reduce the price? Would the $17.50 loss in sales from each player, be cancelled out by the ones hesitating to buy the expansion now purchasing it? Would the new price bring in enough new players, who would not have bought it at $50, to cancel out the loss Anet would take?

thats what finding a price point is all about, I’d say yes. Especially since the cost per consumer is minute, they have nigh infinite inventory, and each new user adds little in terms of cost.
Not to mention a system that profits from selling stuff to players who are fairly engaged with the game.

Of course its impossible to know for sure without testing it both ways. Truth is i probably would have prepurchased without much questions if they had a lower cost and a release date(about 40 bucks). Now that some places are selling it at an even lower price, i still hesitate, because the info they released looks grim. I’m waiting for some critical player feedback now.

of course we ll never no for sure unless we tested both scenarios.

Except if the majority of players were willing to pay the $50 (only Anet would know the actual percentage) then there would be no point in testing to see what would happen if the price were reduced. Based on that, the rest of the players who would forego purchasing the expansion, and the new players who would only have purchased the game if it were at that lower price, would in no way compensate for the loss.

VictorTroska.3725:

ArenaNet, lower expansion price to 30 €. I guarantee your sales will increase so much that it will surpass current numbers with 45 € price tag by tenfold. Just ask Gabe Newell.

As stated someone else, since you guarantee it, are you willing to bet your own money and pay someone else?

The 30 euro your suggesting is about $33.50 in the U.S. How many existing players do you think will not purchase the expansion between now and when Anet does reduce the price? Would the $17.50 loss in sales from each player, be cancelled out by the ones hesitating to buy the expansion now purchasing it? Would the new price bring in enough new players, who would not have bought it at $50, to cancel out the loss Anet would take?

Psientist.6437:

Am I really? I am tempted to accuse you of putting words in my mouth.

Sorry but you created an argument that was not from me. You can attempt to claim that I’m somehow putting words into your mouth but we both know that’s not true.

Psientist.6437:

Would your statement about potential impact be considered an opinion? What exactly are you predicting would appear in the exchange rate? What I see is what would make sense if there were a greater aggregate demand for gem-shop exclusive items than luxury goods. I also recognize all those consistently occurring downward vectors in the exchange rate for what they are; consistent exchanges of gems for gold. I also recognize the steady increase of the exchange rate as a steady increase in the supply of gold.

Let’s put it this way. Calculate how many gems someone would need to buy a particular precursor. Let’s go with dusk as it’s one of the ones people always seem to bring up. Dusk currently has a sell price of 1,300 gold. In order to buy it with gems at the current rate of 1G per 9 gems, you would need 11,700 gems.

Now refer back to this older thread where roughly 58 dusks were sold over a 57 hour period. In order for gem->gold conversions to impact the dusk price, you’d have to people converting and buying dusk at a rate above the typical turnover that normally happens.

How many people it would take before a noticeable impact occurs is debate-able. If the price goes up, people will be more inclined to produce more from the MF. This then puts pressure on the T5 mats, rares, and anything else commonly used for forging precursors. How long it would take before their costs in doing so increase is also debate-able.

Now you must consider how many players, who convert their gems, would it take to cause a meaningful impact. A one off conversion by a bunch of players will only show up as a blip at most. In order to have the so-called inflation that you and others claim, it would mean players converting gems to gold was being sustained at a high enough rate to cause this.

Let’s just arbitrarily say that it takes 20 players, at any given time, converting their gems to gold to produce such an impact. I’m low-balling it as I’m ignoring the buffer that T5 materials would provide as prices likely would not increase until they do. That’s 234,000 gems being converted and under the assumption that the precursor price of 1,300 gold is the same for all 20 players. That won’t be the case.

Now spread this across all high demand, highly priced items. Precursors are not the only things people would convert gems for. Also remember that each player converting their gems for one of these items, likely doesn’t need duplicates. This means each player converting their gems to buy a particular high priced item (e.g. dusk) would be unique. Are there realistically that many players willing to spend real money on gems to convert to gold in order to purchase those high priced items on a sustained basis and at a rate that would cause the prices of those items to increase as of a result?

Psientist.6437:

The currency exchange increases the supply and preserves the availability of gold, helps players maintain a demand potential, makes gem shop exclusive items available through play, decreases the impact of black market RMT……

The currency exchange doesn’t increase supply no more than me taking money out of my personal guild bank increases supply. Preserves the availability of gold? You mean one of the things the currency exchange does is preserve the availability of the gold that enters it? You know, my personal guild bank does that well too and without the fee. I’m not sure where you’re going with demand potential.

Psientist.6437:

Why do white knights freak out when the princess takes off their makeup? That is a rhetorical question.

Now. Now. No need to resort to insults.

Psientist.6437:

RMT is a loaded term and I should be more careful about using it. There is a big (not in-game economic though) difference between a game developer selling their in-game currency and a black market seller.

If a currency exchange is going to be employed then one that preferentially impacts the cost of luxury goods is not bad for the game, especially if there are many ways for a player to remain relevant without spending the currency being exchanged.

The currency exchange extracts gold with a low probability of being spent in-game and transforms it into gold that has a high probability of being spent in-game. In other words a player who exchanges gold for gems is not spending that gold on in game items and therefore that player has no effect on the price of in-game goods. A player who exchanges gems for gold is going to spend that gold in-game and impact the cost of in-game goods.

The existence of the currency exchange increases the supply of gold available to be spent on in-game items. Players farm gold for the specific purpose of spending on gems.
This is gold that is now available to be spent in-game that would not have been created without the existence of the currency exchange.

In my apparently uneducated opinion, a player exchanging gems for gold will preferentially spend that gold on in-game goods that require the most time in-game to acquire. Precursors take a long time to acquire. Again in my humble, ill-informed opinion, the question of whether the currency exchange impacts luxury goods more than non-luxury goods is a question of how much. More than a blip I wager.

You’re ignoring the frequency of players converting gems to gold. Is a single person going to cause the price of a particular precursor to increase? No. It will take many more than that. There will also have to be a consistent number of players doing so all the time in order to have a meaningful impact on precursor prices.

Nobody is denying the potential of someone purchasing gold from gems in having an impact. It’s about the same potential as a single player trying to corner that market to inflate the price to make a profit. It’s something that is not easy and pretty difficult to do in the long run. In the case of buying gems to gold, you’d see it in the gem→gold rate.

Psientist.6437:

Their, and my, opinion is based on solid assumptions. Gold will go where there is the greatest demand for gold first and then it will propagate. The weakness of your argument should be obvious to anyone with a remote understanding of economics.

Uh huh. Gold going to where there’s the greatest demand has nothing to do with whether precursors prices are artificially inflated or not. All it shows is that you don’t have a remote understanding of economics.

Psientist.6437:

Are you really taking the position that the quantity of precursors created in the MF has nothing to do with demand? Are you really going to look at the exchange trend and insist players aren’t exchanging gems for gold?

I never said that precursors created in the MF had nothing to do with demand. That’s something that you decided to make up on your own. Nowhere did I say that players were not exchanging gems for gold. Perhaps you should read the posts completely so you don’t miss something or maybe just don’t make up arguments and claim that they were mine.

Garrisyl.7402:

Wanze.8410:

And if prices of some precursors should spike temporarily (because 10-20 people buy the same one) professional forgers will add new supply because forging them with bought rares or crafted ones with t5 mats will yield good profit.

Until the surge in mystic forging leads to an inevitable rise in prices for t5 materials until the average forging cost again reflects the new, higher precursor price.

You’re assuming that there’s a constant stream of players buying gold for a particular precursor. At the rate that it would take to realistically impact precursor prices through buying gold, the gem->gold rate would look much different than it does now. The most impact you would see from those buying gold is a small, temporary blip.

Garrisyl.7402:

What you are asking me to prove is just as obvious as it is impossible to prove without access to the data. There are tons of people who convert money to buy precursors, I personally know several of them.

Again, without any proof all that you’re stating is an opinion rather than fact. Your statement that “prices were artificially inflated due to people buying them with real money through currency exchange” is nothing more than an opinion. You’re disregarding how many precursors are created each day and the rising gems->gold rate which you would think would not be rising so much with so many people converting gems to gold.

Garrisyl.7402:

Obviously the precursor price is determined by supply and demand. In this case, the higher the precursor price, the more people are willing to pay for t5 mats to try their luck in the mystic forge instead. The price of t5 materials is inherently tied to the price of the most popular precursors, so inflated precursor prices mean inflated t5 prices.

Or you have it backwards and it’s the T5 materials being one of the factors that determines the price of precursors.

Doam.8305:

Also 400 geodes!? If that’s how many Geodes they want I’m afraid to know the other mats….

The 400 geodes is very easy to get. Join a map when one of the guilds are sponsoring a T6 run, and you’ll have most of that in the course of two hours.

Agemnon.4608:

Why craft? It’s the only guaranteed way to obtain ascended gear.

Fixed it for you.

Agemnon.4608:

Ayrilana.1396:

Agemnon.4608:

Ayrilana.1396:

Garrisyl.7402:

where prices were artificially inflated due to people buying them with real money through currency exchange. This put players who just played the game without spending tons of real money at a significant disavantage.

Please prove this.

I converted some gems to gold in order to buy legendary mats when I made mine three years ago. Back then gems to gold conversion was abysmal so I didn’t even do much of it for icy runestones just T6 mostly.

I went and edited my post. I accidentally cut off the first part of their sentence I was quoting and then I bolded the part that I wanted them to prove.

Just because there’s the option to purchase gold with gems, doesn’t mean that high prices for some items are caused by that. The poster was arguing the opposite which was why I wanted them to prove their statement. They completely disregarded that the price was determined by the supply (e.g. RNG and cost for mats used to MF) and the demand for that particular precursor.

Think of it this way: if you farm for powerful blood (Bloodtide Coast didn’t exist back when I got my legendary) and other T6 long enough you will eventually get some. I used that logic to win my precursor from the forge. I had level 400 huntsman so I can continually forge rare level 80 shortbows and mystic forge them.

However, due to the relative rarity of T6 mats it makes RMT a very attractive option at least to meet the criteria halfway. You will get some T6, but not 250 in a reasonable time.

The ability to acquire 250 of each T6 has nothing to do with precursors though. Also compared to back then, we have the laurels that can be converted to T6 where you get like 165 or so every 28 days simply for logging in.

Agemnon.4608:

Ayrilana.1396:

Garrisyl.7402:

where prices were artificially inflated due to people buying them with real money through currency exchange. This put players who just played the game without spending tons of real money at a significant disavantage.

Please prove this.

I converted some gems to gold in order to buy legendary mats when I made mine three years ago. Back then gems to gold conversion was abysmal so I didn’t even do much of it for icy runestones just T6 mostly.

I went and edited my post. I accidentally cut off the first part of their sentence I was quoting and then I bolded the part that I wanted them to prove.

Just because there’s the option to purchase gold with gems, doesn’t mean that high prices for some items are caused by that. The poster was arguing the opposite which was why I wanted them to prove their statement. They completely disregarded that the price was determined by the supply (e.g. RNG and cost for mats used to MF) and the demand for that particular precursor.

Garrisyl.7402:

The problem was the RNG element which forced players to buy precursors on the TP, where prices were artificially inflated due to people buying them with real money through currency exchange. This put players who just played the game without spending tons of real money at a significant disavantage.

Please prove this.

Strzalka.9451:

I wanted a means of crafting a legendary that did not include RNG. That is what they are implementing. Success

And the potential 30 days of time-gated crafting is significantly better than 3 years of waiting for RNG to yield a positive result.

And what’s better yet, people can start now and stock up on those items. I also suggest doing the same for leather and cloth too in case legendary armor uses them in some way. If not, you can always sell them.

I thought I saw somewhere that they’ll refund you if you purchased within the last 30 days but don’t quote me on that.

Colin or someone estimated two week to give players enough time to play the expansion and not feel rushed to get masteries. Earlier today, they announced it would be a few weeks after HoT release but that no exact date was set. Only that it would be before the holidays.

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Ayrilana.1396:

Seera.5916:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

August 29th blog post. It’s says, the first one will be will be shortly after launch.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/raids-in-guild-wars-2/
….. Players who purchase Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns will get access to our first raid, with the first of the three associated raid wings to be activated shortly after launch.

Yep and then Sept 2nd they changed their tune and said it would arrive WITH HoT… point is latest info developers gave was with HoT people preordered then they changed it

Found the source, but the sentence doesn’t imply raiding will be there on Day 1 to me.

Either he heard wrong or he’s making it up.

https://youtu.be/tM8cgQ42bMQ?t=14m

Please look at my OP… the link is there and I quoted the specific line…

Raids are coming with the release of the expansion. Whether you have access to them at day one of the release or not doesn’t change make that statement false.

latinkuro.7304:

Let me give you an example,

How fractals work: we all know this but still.

Say you go in and run a level 1 fractal, which you didn’t open but participated.
after clearing it, you’d be able to open a level 2 fractal, cause progress is tracked individually.

But the way they made it sound on stream was more like this:

You go in and clear Boss 1, you participated but didn’t open.
next time you wanna raid as an opener you’d NOT get the option for Boss 2 since progress is tracked ONLY by opener.

What this says to me is this:

You need someone that cleared and was also THE opener in order to actually get that progress recorded, as a participant only, your progress is NEVER saved.

That’s what it sounds like to me, and it is why I was asking for some clarification on the matter.

I didn’t see that at all.

latinkuro.7304:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s like how fractal progression is tracked. The one who enters first (instance starter) sets the level. For raids, they set which boss.

https://youtu.be/tM8cgQ42bMQ?t=6m54s

Nope, fractal progression is tracked individually regardless of who opens it.
the only thing determined by opener is the level you will be running.

Which part of the raid you go to is determined by who starts the instance just like fractals…

Either you’re not understanding what was said and making an issue over nothing or you need to clarify exactly what your problem is.

Seera.5916:

Solomon Darkfury.3729:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

August 29th blog post. It’s says, the first one will be will be shortly after launch.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/raids-in-guild-wars-2/
….. Players who purchase Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns will get access to our first raid, with the first of the three associated raid wings to be activated shortly after launch.

Yep and then Sept 2nd they changed their tune and said it would arrive WITH HoT… point is latest info developers gave was with HoT people preordered then they changed it

Found the source, but the sentence doesn’t imply raiding will be there on Day 1 to me.

Either he heard wrong or he’s making it up.

https://youtu.be/tM8cgQ42bMQ?t=14m