Guild Wars 2

I expect we’ll unlock more areas as LS2 progresses. For those who never played gw1, dry top is only a small region of many other regions in that area. Here is the map to get a glimpse of what will possibly come during this ls.

http://billywr.com/guild_wars/imgs/map.jpg

The new meta is the tropical bird meta.

They should just give ranger frozen soil spirit to prevent enemies from rezzing downed players.

I’m kidding of course.

Warrior strengths and weaknesses:

Strengths:

1. High health pool
2. High armor rating
3. Can deal physical damage or condition damage
4. Versatile choice of weapons

Weakness:

1. No way to remove enemy boons
2. Inferior group support i.e group stability, group condi removal, group stun breaker etc.
3. Heavily reliant on stances for durability. Once they expire the class becomes considerably weaker.
4. No access to protection
5. Minimum access to combo fields

The only imbalance warrior has atm is its ability to disengage almost on par with a thief. According to devs on one of the previous ready ups!, this isn’t particularly part of their class design. They should be as guardian, first to get into battle and last to leave.

I feel warriors are in the hot seat too often, I believe they are strong but not as strong as people make them out to be. A vast majority of their skill kitten nal is self centered, meaning its not the class you want to bring when you want ally support.

50-60+ fps here.

Healing signet is fine, the only problem I personally have is that you do not need healing power to bring it to the power level it has by default. But then again, if healing signet was nerfed like everyone wants it to be then warrior wouldn’t have any sustain.

What players need to understand about the class is that its meant to be a frontline character like guardian but self centered. Take away the passive regen then this role is taken away.

If they did make a change to healing signet then warrior would need to be compensated. One idea is to decrease the passive of healing signet and increase adrenal health.

Balsa.3951:

Story telling wise anets writer made a leap .

that was amazing good story telling.

I couldnt stop. after everybody left the room of scarlet me and taimi stayed and i watched and read her hologram

5Stars for that

Im dead sleepy but i need to know the end

I agree, the story telling is WAY better.

Shockwave.1230:

I am communicating his statement was wrong.

This is exactly what I’m saying.

Tarsius.3170:

Aza.2105:

Then I believe they changed it heal allies for a lot….but the tooltip never reflected this. So no one who didn’t see Tarsius healing chart probably didn’t know how much it healed for.

Heh, I hadn’t even updated it for the Apr15th patch until you reminded me. thanks!

The numbers should be correct now: Group healing per minute: 52k with 1k healing power or 45k with 0 HP – nothing to be laughed at really.

Also, one thing I never added was Shelter + Might of the Protector + AH which can increase Shelter’s healing potential quite substantially if you time it right.

Nice!

That chart should be made a sticky.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Aza.2105:

Getting bored of your thief man?

Welcome to the world of guardian btw!

I went from warrior at launch, to thief, back to warrior, back to thief, to mesmer, to necro, back to thief, onto engineer, back to warrior, back to thief, to ranger, back to thief, to ele, back to warrior, back to thief, then ranger, and now guardian. O.o

And thanks! I’m having a blast with it. Buildcrafting with it feels a lot like the ranger, as none of the traits really point you in a solid direction and it gives you more freedom to expand out from standard meta options. Honestly, it feels like guardian is where every other class needs to be right now.

Darn! I didn’t know you went back and forth to so many classes. I thought you just used thief primarily hah.

Yeah guardian is really in a good spot as the devs always say. I feel that since you are relatively new to the class that you can look at things from a more fresh perspective than guardian vets can. Yea there are some staple builds and such but over time build exploration becomes minimum as players settle into the class.

Getting bored of your thief man?

Welcome to the world of guardian btw!

Shockwave.1230:

I never said Mr Sharp doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

“Mr Sharp was incorrect in his assessment of there being no counterplay to stealth.”

“Yes I am telling you that the designer/developer was incorrect in his assessment, or wasn’t thinking completely about his statement at the time.”

You are saying he doesn’t have a idea what he is saying and wasn’t thinking like you when he made the statement.

Fashion Mage.3712:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

brannigan.9831:

The guardian that won the North American TOL used healing breeze as his heal skill. So no you don’t need to use shelter.

/thread

Indeed. Healing Breeze is one of (if not the most) underrated abilities in the game imo.
If you ask me, it’s what makes healer guardians decent.

Yeah its awesome.

I believe the reason/s why its underrated is because the tooltip errors. Initially healing breeze sucked, then they changed it to have a wider cone. No one cared.

Then I believe they changed so it healed allies for a lot….but the tooltip never reflected this. So no one who didn’t see Tarsius healing chart probably didn’t know how much it healed for.

The recent change which is the biggest makes the skill really good. Its definitely the heal to use if you are cleric and in a group. A 7k ally heal on a 40sec cd is HUGE. The biggest ally heal in the game afaik.

Edit: Found the series of changes to healing breeze:

Feb 26, 2013:

• Healing Breeze: Angle of this ability has been increased so that allies are easier to hit.

Oct 15, 2013:

• Healing Breeze: Doubled the base heal when healing allies. Scaling from healing power has been increased from 20% to 40% when healing allies.

Apr 15, 2014:

• Healing Breeze: This skill has been rescaled so that the guardian receives 50% of the heal up front, and the remaining healing is distributed over 5 ticks to the caster and up to 5 allies in the cone’s radius.

It took three balance passes on the skill to make it a real option to the other heals available.

Shockwave.1230:

Numerous people have provided examples of how to counterplay stealth, we’re not wrong. If we were and stealth had no counterplay to it, then thieves would take 0 damage and always land flanking strikes to trigger stealth attack bonuses.

This is not reality, because stealth has counterplay to it and it’s available on every profession. Your opinion is that provided arguments with my experiences is somehow a weakness, I view it as a strength.

You don’t have to tell me that you don’t think you are wrong, I already know that’s what you think. And its the core reason why you continue to post because of this fact. You are so far invested into your personal interpretations that you have even gone so far to say that Jon Sharp doesn’t know what he is talking about so that you can maintain the illusion that what you are saying is absolutely correct.

You do a lot to maintain the state of your perspective even when given irrefutable facts:

1. Jon Sharp is wrong when he states that stealth had no counter prior to sic em

2. Then it became Jon Sharp was only communicating to people who share my perspective or in other words he was only appeasing a certain group of people

3. A counter doesn’t mean it has to be a opposing force, even though the definition says so

4. When all else fails you revert to trying to talk about a deficiency in the players game experience in order to continue to maintain your position. In other words you feel players only experience stealth in a negative way because they aren’t applying what you have told them.

Every single last thing you do is to keep yourself in that position. There is no harm in being wrong, in fact you gain more in being wrong than you do right. But that is something you will have to figure out on your own accord.

Poplolita.2638:

What are you even talking about? Stealth has only one counter, and this is a fact. It doesn’t have anything to do with my experience. How many time do I have to repeat that I’m talking from a mechanical perpespective only? It doesn’t have anything to do with my experience whatsoever.

Assumptions aside, are you aware I main a necromancer? How could you possibly think I’m having trouble against your class? What do you even know about my experience?

Objective thought is apparently hard to understand.

Shockwave.1230:

Aza.2105:

Shockwave.1230:

Aza.2105:

Shockwave.1230:

Aza.2105:

Zacchary.6183:

@ Aza

Your comments are rather biased.

Not biased, I’m objective. What I’ve written so far has nothing to do with my personal experience in game.

I think what people are trying to point out to you is that all these things you are complaining about are intended.

Regardless though if professions with stealth were imbalanced why aren’t the majority of people’s pvp comps made up entirely of stealth professions? The answer is rather obvious, because it doesn’t work, and that’s because stealth is not imbalanced.

Not true at all. so its not necessarily intended. When they changed sic em to be revealed Anet said they introduced it because there was no counter play to stealth and players have been asking for it. Meaning all of the stuff you have named isn’t counter play at all, like I said.

Here is the quote:

“Sick ‘Em will now apply ‘Revealed” to enemies they target. We want to introduce some counter play to Stealth (players have asked for that for a while), so we thought a pet “catching your scent” might be a cool way to insinuate some anti-stealth into the game.”

- Jonathan Sharp

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/October-15th-balance-skills-updates-preview/first

Using conquest mode as a example of why stealth isn’t overpowered has nothing to do with anything.

Mr Sharp was incorrect in his assessment of there being no counterplay to stealth. If there was no counterplay to stealth then there is no counterplay to invulnerability, which there is.

So what you are saying is the developer who designed the skills is wrong and that you know better. Its difficult to admit to yourself that you are wrong, work on it.

Invul doesn’t have counter play that is true. But its irrelevant, the cdsare way to long for them to be a problem. The only skill that had a short cd with invul was blurred frenzy but that was changed because it had no counter.

Yes I am telling you that the designer/developer was incorrect in his assessment, or wasn’t thinking completely about his statement at the time.

Stealth has counterplay without sic ’em.

You misunderstand my invulnerability comment, invulnerabilty has no counter, but it does have counterplay.

Edit
Forgot that Invulnerability does have a counter, it’s invulnerability.

You have too much of yourself invested in your posts about stealth that you can’t even say you are wrong. But don’t worry, you aren’t unique. Most people are this way were as they only want to be right.

I understand your comment about invulnerability perfectly and I’m telling you that you do not know what you are saying. You can’t counter invulnerability with invulnerability since its a identical force. It would have to be a opposing force for it to be considered a counter. Meaning there would have to be a skill that makes target vulnerable to all attacks or a skill still hits even when the target is invul.

Shockwave.1230:

Aza.2105:

Shockwave.1230:

Aza.2105:

Zacchary.6183:

@ Aza

Your comments are rather biased.

Not biased, I’m objective. What I’ve written so far has nothing to do with my personal experience in game.

I think what people are trying to point out to you is that all these things you are complaining about are intended.

Regardless though if professions with stealth were imbalanced why aren’t the majority of people’s pvp comps made up entirely of stealth professions? The answer is rather obvious, because it doesn’t work, and that’s because stealth is not imbalanced.

Not true at all. so its not necessarily intended. When they changed sic em to be revealed Anet said they introduced it because there was no counter play to stealth and players have been asking for it. Meaning all of the stuff you have named isn’t counter play at all, like I said.

Here is the quote:

“Sick ‘Em will now apply ‘Revealed” to enemies they target. We want to introduce some counter play to Stealth (players have asked for that for a while), so we thought a pet “catching your scent” might be a cool way to insinuate some anti-stealth into the game.”

- Jonathan Sharp

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/October-15th-balance-skills-updates-preview/first

Using conquest mode as a example of why stealth isn’t overpowered has nothing to do with anything.

Mr Sharp was incorrect in his assessment of there being no counterplay to stealth. If there was no counterplay to stealth then there is no counterplay to invulnerability, which there is.

So what you are saying is the developer who designed the skills is wrong and that you know better. Its difficult to admit to yourself that you are wrong, work on it.

Invul doesn’t have counter play that is true. But its irrelevant, the cdsare way to long for them to be a problem. The only skill that had a short cd with invul was blurred frenzy but that was changed because it had no counter.

Shockwave.1230:

Aza.2105:

Zacchary.6183:

@ Aza

Your comments are rather biased.

Not biased, I’m objective. What I’ve written so far has nothing to do with my personal experience in game.

I think what people are trying to point out to you is that all these things you are complaining about are intended.

Regardless though if professions with stealth were imbalanced why aren’t the majority of people’s pvp comps made up entirely of stealth professions? The answer is rather obvious, because it doesn’t work, and that’s because stealth is not imbalanced.

Not true at all. so its not necessarily intended. When they changed sic em to be revealed Anet said they introduced it because there was no counter play to stealth and players have been asking for it. Meaning all of the stuff you have named isn’t counter play at all, like I said.

Here is the quote:

“Sick ‘Em will now apply ‘Revealed” to enemies they target. We want to introduce some counter play to Stealth (players have asked for that for a while), so we thought a pet “catching your scent” might be a cool way to insinuate some anti-stealth into the game.”

- Jonathan Sharp

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/October-15th-balance-skills-updates-preview/first

Using conquest mode as a example of why stealth isn’t overpowered has nothing to do with anything.

Zacchary.6183:

@ Aza

Your comments are rather biased.

Not biased, I’m objective. What I’ve written so far has nothing to do with my personal experience in game.

Zacchary.6183:

RyuDragnier.9476:

Zacchary.6183:

EDIT: Secondly, why the hell are you burning skills while a thief is in stealth? Bust out your auto.

Auto only works if you’re not using weapons that have cleave. If they don’t, there’s no point because you will not hit anything.

Yes it will. If a projectile hits something in stealth, it will deal damage and disappear unless it has piercing. Then it will just keep flying. If the stealthed enemy is in front of you and you are swinging with a (let’s just say) dagger, it is going to clip him and the chain will progress.

Try it sometime.

Your example is rather one sided.

Poplolita and Ryu already highlighted why stealth isn’t a debuff and how it has enormous advantages over a non stealthed player.

Shockwave.1230:

Aza.2105:

Shockwave.1230:

That’s not dodging any question, please reread. Your root cause issue, is that you don’t know where your target is, I provided how you know where your target is.

I also noted that players using stealth inflict a “polar opposite counter” on themselves, which is also true.

You for some reason are fixated on this concept of a polar opposite counter having to exist for your own personal use, when that’s simply not true. Invincibility has no polar opposite counter, teleporting has no polar opposite counter. Plus the polar counter does exist for stealth anyways, players just inflict it upon themselves.

Quite simply it is your opinion that this “polar opposite counter” should be readily available to you, instead of being implemented in the way that it is. Whereas it is ANet’s opionion that it should be the way that it is currently.

It is dodging the question, you avoid answering it by simply trying to shift the discussion back to your own personal thinking of what a counter is.

Fixated? Are you sure about that one? The only thing I do is continue to bring the accepted definition of what a counter is back into the discussion. Which again involves opposites, you act like I made up the definition. Maybe you should seek out the creator of it since you seem to have a problem with it.

The accepted definition of a counter is a way to respond that will negate or reduce the impact of the initial action. For example, you would counter a larger force with strategies, tactics, or advanced technology like formations, flanking, or modern weapons.

You can negate the impact of stealth by doing things that I and others have suggested.

You don’t have to agree with the accepted definition, but that’s okay.

There is truth in what you are saying, but its a bit deceptive. The only reason why counter would be used in context with your example is if the strategists figured they had a equal force to oppose the larger one. It would not be a counter without the equal force.

Regardless, none of this has nothing to do with your listed counters for stealth. How would be dropping aoe in a random place be a equal force to stealth. Better yet how does it negate or lessen the effect of stealth?

Keksmuffin.1450:

Chaotic.9742:

Not to be rude or anything. But you’re on your soapbox preaching like you’re top guard world and honestly, I’ve never seen your name before now.

On to the matter at hand – SoR is situational. Simple as that. Remember around release when SoR was the meta heal? I sure do. Then the transition to shelter happened but a few still stuck with SoR for a bit longer. I mean, even now people run healing breeze recently so dont try to preach about shelter being the only viable choice.

k

Meaningless.

Shockwave.1230:

That’s not dodging any question, please reread. Your root cause issue, is that you don’t know where your target is, I provided how you know where your target is.

I also noted that players using stealth inflict a “polar opposite counter” on themselves, which is also true.

You for some reason are fixated on this concept of a polar opposite counter having to exist for your own personal use, when that’s simply not true. Invincibility has no polar opposite counter, teleporting has no polar opposite counter. Plus the polar counter does exist for stealth anyways, players just inflict it upon themselves.

Quite simply it is your opinion that this “polar opposite counter” should be readily available to you, instead of being implemented in the way that it is. Whereas it is ANet’s opionion that it should be the way that it is currently.

It is dodging the question, you avoid answering it by simply trying to shift the discussion back to your own personal thinking of what a counter is.

Fixated? Are you sure about that one? The only thing I do is continue to bring the accepted definition of what a counter is back into the discussion. Which again involves opposites, you act like I made up the definition. Maybe you should seek out the creator of it since you seem to have a problem with it.

Oxstar.7643:

You were the one who started with words definitions first… No, you’ve completely ignored our advice, spurned our tries to help you, and you are, 100% GUILTY. Then you can live on in your own world, but it doesn’t change ANYTHING.

Advice? Nothing I’ve said is about my personal experience. This is how your are interpreting it though. You are taking your entire experience of needing help in game and applying it to me. I already went over this with you a several posts above.

What you don’t understand is if shockwave or yourself had said “These are helpful tactics that can combat stealth users…..”. I’d say those are pretty fair statements. But what you both are saying is that your suggestions are counters and they are not.

Oxstar.7643:

Aza.2105:

Shockwave.1230:

Aza.2105:

Shockwave.1230:

Aza.2105:

Shockwave.1230:

Now you can see how rediculous some of the listed opposing view points are, but some are not rediculous, yet they’re all valid in some way.

The point is that when people provide ways to counter stealth, it’s because there actually are ways to counter stealth.

The only thing I see is the absence of comprehension on your behalf. The thing is its not my view point, since what I’m saying is objective not subjective. Its based solely upon what the definition of counter is not what I “think” or “feel” it is. The list you made is completely subjective since its based upon your own personal interpretation of what a counter means.

Its a fact that all of the mechanics I listed stand on the opposite end of the spectrum of their counter parts. It doesn’t matter how you say they are applied, the only thing that does matter is that there are mechanics in place that balance out each other by providing the opposite effect.

Going by the “definition” of counter, not your own personal interpretation of the meaning. Show me how anything you listed is even roughly related to it.

Okay if you’d like to look at everything in a silo then my argument is that stealth does nothing by itself except put you at a disadvantage of not being able to interact with objectives.

Therefore stealth is actually a debuff.

This is irrelevant because you are shifting the discussion from the mechanic itself to things outside of it such as objectives or your personal opinion that its a debuff. Looking at the mechanic itself, illustrate how any of what you listed in your previous reply fits the definition of a counter.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/counter

If you like to know what the hard counter to stealth is those are

• Stealth by itself (as the play in stealth is less useful than when they are out of stealth)
• Revealed

And there’s the list of other counters that I previously mentioned, such as Invincibility or blocks, or blinds, since stealth by itself is actually a debuff and is useful for creating an opportunity deal damage.

Stealth makes the target invisible. What skills can make a target visible?

All skilsl that either spawns a target effect or a damage number on the screen… You don’t need to SEE him to counter him, just know his position. Sigh… I’d need both Hawaii and Costa Rice to accomodate all the facepalm you deserve!

The only thing I’ve done is keep it objective. For many such as yourself and shockwave, this is a difficult task. Since you prefer to try to redefine a word to justify what you think. Perhaps if the world revolved around you then words could mean anything you want them to be.

Shockwave.1230:

Aza.2105:

Shockwave.1230:

Aza.2105:

Shockwave.1230:

Aza.2105:

Shockwave.1230:

Now you can see how rediculous some of the listed opposing view points are, but some are not rediculous, yet they’re all valid in some way.

The point is that when people provide ways to counter stealth, it’s because there actually are ways to counter stealth.

The only thing I see is the absence of comprehension on your behalf. The thing is its not my view point, since what I’m saying is objective not subjective. Its based solely upon what the definition of counter is not what I “think” or “feel” it is. The list you made is completely subjective since its based upon your own personal interpretation of what a counter means.

Its a fact that all of the mechanics I listed stand on the opposite end of the spectrum of their counter parts. It doesn’t matter how you say they are applied, the only thing that does matter is that there are mechanics in place that balance out each other by providing the opposite effect.

Going by the “definition” of counter, not your own personal interpretation of the meaning. Show me how anything you listed is even roughly related to it.

Okay if you’d like to look at everything in a silo then my argument is that stealth does nothing by itself except put you at a disadvantage of not being able to interact with objectives.

Therefore stealth is actually a debuff.

This is irrelevant because you are shifting the discussion from the mechanic itself to things outside of it such as objectives or your personal opinion that its a debuff. Looking at the mechanic itself, illustrate how any of what you listed in your previous reply fits the definition of a counter.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/counter

If you like to know what the hard counter to stealth is those are

• Stealth by itself (as the play in stealth is less useful than when they are out of stealth)
• Revealed

And there’s the list of other counters that I previously mentioned, such as Invincibility or blocks, or blinds, since stealth by itself is actually a debuff and is useful for creating an opportunity deal damage.

Stealth makes the target invisible. What skills can make a target visible?

Let me fix that for you…

Stealth makes it so you don’t know where your target is, what skills allow you to know where your target is?

• Auto attack chains
• On hit sigil procs (fire & air)
• Any channel skill used before the target enters stealth

To answer the original question though, any damage skill is the answer. A stealthed player reveals himself/herself and inflicts a revealed debuff as well, preventing stealth again, wihch means the stealthed player counters hiself/herself.

I’m still waiting for you to show me how what you are saying fits the definition of counter. All you have done so far is dodge the task by providing examples in accordance to your own interpretation of the word.

Shockwave.1230:

Aza.2105:

Shockwave.1230:

Aza.2105:

Shockwave.1230:

Now you can see how rediculous some of the listed opposing view points are, but some are not rediculous, yet they’re all valid in some way.

The point is that when people provide ways to counter stealth, it’s because there actually are ways to counter stealth.

The only thing I see is the absence of comprehension on your behalf. The thing is its not my view point, since what I’m saying is objective not subjective. Its based solely upon what the definition of counter is not what I “think” or “feel” it is. The list you made is completely subjective since its based upon your own personal interpretation of what a counter means.

Its a fact that all of the mechanics I listed stand on the opposite end of the spectrum of their counter parts. It doesn’t matter how you say they are applied, the only thing that does matter is that there are mechanics in place that balance out each other by providing the opposite effect.

Going by the “definition” of counter, not your own personal interpretation of the meaning. Show me how anything you listed is even roughly related to it.

Okay if you’d like to look at everything in a silo then my argument is that stealth does nothing by itself except put you at a disadvantage of not being able to interact with objectives.

Therefore stealth is actually a debuff.

This is irrelevant because you are shifting the discussion from the mechanic itself to things outside of it such as objectives or your personal opinion that its a debuff. Looking at the mechanic itself, illustrate how any of what you listed in your previous reply fits the definition of a counter.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/counter

If you like to know what the hard counter to stealth is those are

• Stealth by itself (as the play in stealth is less useful than when they are out of stealth)
• Revealed

And there’s the list of other counters that I previously mentioned, such as Invincibility or blocks, or blinds, since stealth by itself is actually a debuff and is useful for creating an opportunity deal damage.

Stealth makes the target invisible. What skills can make a target visible?

Shockwave.1230:

Aza.2105:

Shockwave.1230:

Now you can see how rediculous some of the listed opposing view points are, but some are not rediculous, yet they’re all valid in some way.

The point is that when people provide ways to counter stealth, it’s because there actually are ways to counter stealth.

The only thing I see is the absence of comprehension on your behalf. The thing is its not my view point, since what I’m saying is objective not subjective. Its based solely upon what the definition of counter is not what I “think” or “feel” it is. The list you made is completely subjective since its based upon your own personal interpretation of what a counter means.

Its a fact that all of the mechanics I listed stand on the opposite end of the spectrum of their counter parts. It doesn’t matter how you say they are applied, the only thing that does matter is that there are mechanics in place that balance out each other by providing the opposite effect.

Going by the “definition” of counter, not your own personal interpretation of the meaning. Show me how anything you listed is even roughly related to it.

Okay if you’d like to look at everything in a silo then my argument is that stealth does nothing by itself except put you at a disadvantage of not being able to interact with objectives.

Therefore stealth is actually a debuff.

This is irrelevant because you are shifting the discussion from the mechanic itself to things outside of it such as objectives or your personal opinion that its a debuff. Looking at the mechanic itself, illustrate how any of what you listed in your previous reply fits the definition of a counter.

coun·ter3 [koun-ter] Show IPA
adverb
1.
in the wrong way; contrary to the right course; in the reverse or opposite direction.
2.
contrary; in opposition (usually preceded by run or go ): to run counter to the rules.
adjective
3.
opposite; opposed; contrary.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/counter

Shockwave.1230:

Now you can see how rediculous some of the listed opposing view points are, but some are not rediculous, yet they’re all valid in some way.

The point is that when people provide ways to counter stealth, it’s because there actually are ways to counter stealth.

The only thing I see is the absence of comprehension on your behalf. The thing is its not my view point, since what I’m saying is objective not subjective. Its based solely upon what the definition of counter is not what I “think” or “feel” it is. The list you made is completely subjective since its based upon your own personal interpretation of what a counter means.

Its a fact that all of the mechanics I listed stand on the opposite end of the spectrum of their counter parts. It doesn’t matter how you say they are applied, the only thing that does matter is that there are mechanics in place that balance out each other by providing the opposite effect.

Going by the “definition” of counter, not your own personal interpretation of the meaning. Show me how anything you listed is even roughly related to it.

Vikkela.7261:

1. Use signet
2. Necro/Engi/Warrior hits you neutralizing/outdamaging your heal while you’re standing there vulnerable
3. Full CD on Signet with no Heal
4. You die
5. ???
6. profit

Just use blind or aegis while healing. At least that would be the smart thing to do.

Shockwave.1230:

Countering backstab is pretty simple, and is ultimately what was being complained about in recent posts. Below is a list of counter backstab options that are not random at all.

Options include but are not limited to the following:

• Back directly away from where the thief stealthed and dodgeroll 1.5 seconds after, then continue to back directly away (attacking simultaneously)
• AoE the ground (preferably with a snare, but damage is good too), back directly away from where the thief stealthed.
• Knockback as soon as stealth happens and back directly away.
• Use a DoT defensive skill such as Renewed Focus or Shield Stance
• Activate a counter block skill, then dodge when you see block, and back directly away from where you dodged from (also works with Aegis)
• Stealth to counter their Stealth
• Use a leap skill then about-face, and back away
• Equip Healing Signet, the more time a thief is in stealth the more you are winning
• Blind the area around you
• Etc…

Again the above list isn’t random actions, but you can be random if you feel like it will accomplish something.

No no and no.

Everything you listed are “preventions” not counters. Its amazing that people just can’t comprehend the definition. The definition of a counter is simple, a eye for a eye a tooth for a tooth. For it to be a counter it has to be something of equal value to what its opposing.

Cripple counters swiftness, vulnerability counters protection….there is a pattern you see?

Cripple is everything swiftness is not, swiftness speeds you up, cripple slows you down.

Protection increases your defense, vulnerability decreases your defense.

Might increases your power, Weakness has a chance to decrease your power

Aegis allows you to block, unblockable attacks penetrate through block

Conditions damage your foe, condition removal removes conditions

Following this pattern then reveal would be the counter to stealth, since its everything stealth is not. Stealth allows you to go invisible, reveal prevents one from going invisible.

Problem is reveal is only available on one skill, sic em.

Everything you listed has nothing to do with countering at all, sorry man no disrespect.

Anet wanted gw2 to be different from wow. So they decided to have the ready button available after you enter into a match instead of before.

Oxstar.7643:

Aza.2105:

Tom.8029:

When a thief uses stealth, you have a few options:
1) Use something that protects yourself.
2) Use something that punishes the thief for hitting you.
3) Anticipate a strike while they’re in stealth and dodge.
4) Use an AoE that damages the thief and stand in it.

For example, I’m an elementalist and one thing I like to do is use Shocking Aura. The moment they attack, they get revealed and they get stunned for hitting me, allowing me to attack.

None of these are counters.

Yes they are, because counter means something that denies the second party access to what would give them an advantage over you, You can’t reduce their stealth TIME, but you can very well make it hard for them to make good use of it.

adjective

1.The definition of counter is someone or something the opposite of another.

http://www.yourdictionary.com/counter

Oxstar.7643:

Aza.2105:

Oxstar.7643:

1. You are just bad, bro, no offense.
2. You don’t seem to understand what counter MEANS.

1. Expand your vocabulary, go out, interact with people. No offense taken, you are speaking about yourself.

2. I do, you don’t:

coun·tered, coun·ter·ing, coun·ters

v.tr.
1. To meet or return (a blow) by another blow.
1. One that is an opposite.

Rofl. You’ve any idea how many times I was told I suck during my learning curve? I listened and tried to improve, and it payed off. I will either do the same, or remain that majority who are too proud to fault themselves and will answer every criticism with “No, YOU suck” or “you’re talking about yoursel”. Choice is mine. I’m struggling, you’re not, you tried to help me, I won’t listen, and it’s affecting poorly on me. The sooner I get my head out of my rear and start improving, the more fun me, and people around me, are going to have.

Fixed that for you.

Since your reply has nothing to do with me what so ever. Its impossible to make personal statements against a anonymous entity on a forum that you do not even know. You are only seeing yourself in my replies to you.

Oxstar.7643:

1. You are just bad, bro, no offense.
2. You don’t seem to understand what counter MEANS.

1. Expand your vocabulary, go out, interact with people. No offense taken, you are speaking about yourself.

2. I do, you don’t:

coun·tered, coun·ter·ing, coun·ters

v.tr.
1. To meet or return (a blow) by another blow.
1. One that is an opposite.

Oxstar.7643:

Aza.2105:

Oxstar.7643:

Aza.2105:

Oxstar.7643:

Aza.2105:

Oxstar.7643:

There are plenty of counters. Pushbacks, aoe cripples, flamethrowers, and of course, the good old brain. Just because they are invisible doesn’t mean you can’t estimate where they will go. For example, imagine a thief stealths, put down an aoe cripple skill, then move in a line from where he vanished to where you think he will move. The most direct route is straight ahead, and if they don’t take that path, they lose precious stealth time.

Sorry none of those are counters. And just like I wrote in my previous post about how players will make posts about how to counter it will and can only give solutions that are random by nature.

A example: "For example, imagine a thief stealths, put down an aoe cripple skill, then move in a line from where he vanished to where you think he will move. "

It means you don’t know where he is going, so its a guessing game like I stated above. This isn’t a counter, this is the equivalent of mashing buttons on a controller hoping to get a concrete result.

Here is a example of a counter by definition:

1. A thief stealths.

2. You use a skill that causes the thief to be brought out of stealth, causing him/her to waste their cooldown, now they are on the defensive.

That is a counter, no a prevention.

Here is your example:

1. A thief stealths

2. The player randomly aoe, dropping cripple, bleeds and fears hoping the thief is getting hit by them.

None of that is a counter, its just random behavior since their is no solution to stealth this type of plan of action becomes the best thing to do. But like I said its not a counter since it doesn’t punish the thief for using up stealth and not considering what you may do.

Right now there is much considering since you can simply stealth and teleport far away. Waiting for cooldowns to come back up as well as health then re-engaging the target.

Oh, I’m sorry, but drawing a line from point A and then use some base logic to force a thief to take a non direct route to get to me is not beyond me, idk about you.

Look, I hate to be that guy, but… l2p.

This makes you look bad. When people resort to l2p, are you mad and other low intellectual responses means they are out of things that are relevant to say.

Whatever bro, I pvp’d in spvp and wvw for months upon months, stealth was never a problem to me.

This is a subjective perspective.

Objectively its a huge issue, anything that exists without a polar opposite becomes a issue.

Here are examples:

1. Protection – Vulnerability
2. Might – Weakness
3. Endurance – Weakness
4. Stun, Daze etc – Stability
5. Healing – Poison
6. Conditions – Condition removers
7. Block – Unblockable attacks

• 8. Stealth – Sic em
• 9. Evade – Nothing

Evades, blocks, blinds, leaps… I could go on. Sorry, but I don’t think any sort of majority is gonna agree with you.

What does this even mean?

Oxstar.7643:

Aza.2105:

Oxstar.7643:

Aza.2105:

Oxstar.7643:

There are plenty of counters. Pushbacks, aoe cripples, flamethrowers, and of course, the good old brain. Just because they are invisible doesn’t mean you can’t estimate where they will go. For example, imagine a thief stealths, put down an aoe cripple skill, then move in a line from where he vanished to where you think he will move. The most direct route is straight ahead, and if they don’t take that path, they lose precious stealth time.

Sorry none of those are counters. And just like I wrote in my previous post about how players will make posts about how to counter it will and can only give solutions that are random by nature.

A example: "For example, imagine a thief stealths, put down an aoe cripple skill, then move in a line from where he vanished to where you think he will move. "

It means you don’t know where he is going, so its a guessing game like I stated above. This isn’t a counter, this is the equivalent of mashing buttons on a controller hoping to get a concrete result.

Here is a example of a counter by definition:

1. A thief stealths.

2. You use a skill that causes the thief to be brought out of stealth, causing him/her to waste their cooldown, now they are on the defensive.

That is a counter, no a prevention.

Here is your example:

1. A thief stealths

2. The player randomly aoe, dropping cripple, bleeds and fears hoping the thief is getting hit by them.

None of that is a counter, its just random behavior since their is no solution to stealth this type of plan of action becomes the best thing to do. But like I said its not a counter since it doesn’t punish the thief for using up stealth and not considering what you may do.

Right now there is much considering since you can simply stealth and teleport far away. Waiting for cooldowns to come back up as well as health then re-engaging the target.

Oh, I’m sorry, but drawing a line from point A and then use some base logic to force a thief to take a non direct route to get to me is not beyond me, idk about you.

Look, I hate to be that guy, but… l2p.

This makes you look bad. When people resort to l2p, are you mad and other low intellectual responses means they are out of things that are relevant to say.

Whatever bro, I pvp’d in spvp and wvw for months upon months, stealth was never a problem to me.

This is a subjective perspective.

Objectively its a huge issue, anything that exists without a polar opposite becomes a issue.

Here are examples:

1. Protection – Vulnerability
2. Might – Weakness
3. Endurance – Weakness
4. Stun, Daze etc – Stability
5. Healing – Poison
6. Conditions – Condition removers
7. Block – Unblockable attacks

• 8. Stealth – Sic em
• 9. Evade – Nothing

Oxstar.7643:

Aza.2105:

Oxstar.7643:

There are plenty of counters. Pushbacks, aoe cripples, flamethrowers, and of course, the good old brain. Just because they are invisible doesn’t mean you can’t estimate where they will go. For example, imagine a thief stealths, put down an aoe cripple skill, then move in a line from where he vanished to where you think he will move. The most direct route is straight ahead, and if they don’t take that path, they lose precious stealth time.

Sorry none of those are counters. And just like I wrote in my previous post about how players will make posts about how to counter it will and can only give solutions that are random by nature.

A example: "For example, imagine a thief stealths, put down an aoe cripple skill, then move in a line from where he vanished to where you think he will move. "

It means you don’t know where he is going, so its a guessing game like I stated above. This isn’t a counter, this is the equivalent of mashing buttons on a controller hoping to get a concrete result.

Here is a example of a counter by definition:

1. A thief stealths.

2. You use a skill that causes the thief to be brought out of stealth, causing him/her to waste their cooldown, now they are on the defensive.

That is a counter, no a prevention.

Here is your example:

1. A thief stealths

2. The player randomly aoe, dropping cripple, bleeds and fears hoping the thief is getting hit by them.

None of that is a counter, its just random behavior since their is no solution to stealth this type of plan of action becomes the best thing to do. But like I said its not a counter since it doesn’t punish the thief for using up stealth and not considering what you may do.

Right now there is much considering since you can simply stealth and teleport far away. Waiting for cooldowns to come back up as well as health then re-engaging the target.

Oh, I’m sorry, but drawing a line from point A and then use some base logic to force a thief to take a non direct route to get to me is not beyond me, idk about you.

Look, I hate to be that guy, but… l2p.

This makes you look bad. When people resort to l2p, are you mad and other low intellectual responses means they are out of things that are relevant to say.

Oxstar.7643:

There are plenty of counters. Pushbacks, aoe cripples, flamethrowers, and of course, the good old brain. Just because they are invisible doesn’t mean you can’t estimate where they will go. For example, imagine a thief stealths, put down an aoe cripple skill, then move in a line from where he vanished to where you think he will move. The most direct route is straight ahead, and if they don’t take that path, they lose precious stealth time.

Sorry none of those are counters. And just like I wrote in my previous post about how players will make posts about how to counter it will and can only give solutions that are random by nature.

A example: "For example, imagine a thief stealths, put down an aoe cripple skill, then move in a line from where he vanished to where you think he will move. "

It means you don’t know where he is going, so its a guessing game like I stated above. This isn’t a counter, this is the equivalent of mashing buttons on a controller hoping to get a concrete result.

Here is a example of a counter by definition:

1. A thief stealths.

2. You use a skill that causes the thief to be brought out of stealth, causing him/her to waste their cooldown, now they are on the defensive.

That is a counter, not a prevention.

Here is your example:

1. A thief stealths

2. The player randomly aoe, dropping cripple, bleeds and fears hoping the thief is getting hit by them.

None of that is a counter, its just random behavior since their is no solution to stealth this type of plan of action becomes the best thing to do. But like I said its not a counter since it doesn’t punish the thief for using up stealth and not considering what you may do.

Right now there isn’t much considering you can simply stealth and teleport far away. Waiting for cooldowns to come back up as well as health then re-engaging the target.

mrmadhaze.8706:

phaeris.7604:

Stealth should drop as soon as the thief attacks.

If he gets evaded/blocked he should come out of stealth. It’s what makes stealth so unbalanced compared to other games versions. There’s no risk involved.

Spam button 1 until you get the backstab, don’t worry if he has a shield up or dodges your first two clumsy attempts, you get to keep trying until you land it. If I miss with my updraft I don’t get a refresh until it lands.

An attack even if evaded or blocked should still count as an attack and remove stealth. That would balance it entirely. It raises the skill cap without destroying the class.

Tell us how much balanced is if thief get reveled debuff (drop stealth = revealed) for every single kitten does in this game, without destroying the class ofc…….

It wouldn’t destroy the class it would destroy the players who aren’t really good at the class.

Stealth as a whole is largely imbalanced due to one counter being available “sic em”. Just like when you take away all the cats you will have a rodent problem, with no counters to stealth there is a stealth problem.

The mechanic is one of many poor choices Anet made when they created gw2. Unfortunately the team didn’t seem to learn from WoW or any other game which implements similar mechanics. That it eliminates counter play from the player on the receiving end.

Counter play comes from reading your opponents animations, observing their movement and then making the conscious choice of using a skill that might shutdown their attack so you can retaliate. Stealth takes all of this out of the equation, since they are invisible to the other player. It forces the player to play a guessing game instead of consciously thinking out their attack plan. This is why you hear people say “just aoe” “just do this or that”. It means there is no definite solution since one doesn’t exist, so the player resorts to random decision making, which may or may not work.

This is also related to why zerker thieves have run out mesmers and elementlists in pvp. No other zerker can compete since they do not have the wide quantity of stealth skills to remove their opponents ability to make concrete counter play decisions.

Definitely broken, but of course you will have people come here and defend it viciously without a ounce of reasoning why it should stay the way it is other than their are in love with their class.

NeXeD.3042:

Well if they aren’t trying to capture nodes fixing the 4v5 problem in hotjoins seems like a silly idea!

It won’t fix the problem. It will lock some casuals into one team where they get owned and bashed by there team making pvp more elitist and selective than it already is.

Here’s the thing. If you care so much about your pvp experience that this bothers you so much, then maybe you should be playing with other players that care….. Not Hotjoins. If your just testing a build then you shouldn’t get mad either way though lol.

Getting mad? What?

I’d really like to keep my thread clean and troll free. If you don’t have anything constructive to add to the thread then do yourself a favor and just do not say anything.

Its one thing if you disagree and have a valid reason why. But when your reasoning is based upon your own personal problems with the game mode then it makes your perspective irrelevant.

Everyone is experiencing a large quantity of 4v5 in hot joins, this is fact and objective. Its not limited to a single person or small groups experience. Saying something like don’t fix it because hotjoin isn’t because its not serious indicates a the individual has personal problem with the mode, not that the mode is not working correctly.

Everything you have stated is real subjective and this isn’t why I made the thread. I don’t care about your subjective opinions about what you feel about hotjoin. You can create another thread about it if you like. This thread is for the on going 4v5 issue that has been prevalent in hotjoin since they removed 8v8.

NeXeD.3042:

It does teach. It teaches them to emulate what the better players they see in hotjoins are doing before heading to the tournament. Hotjoins are fine. If they want to put a little effort into evening out tournaments and stopping the 4v5s then fine. But messing with hotjoins is unnecessary. We get little attention as it is in pvp. Prioritize.

The average hotjoin player doesn’t even care about capturing objectives, so I doubt they are trying to emulate what better players do. With that being said you aren’t offering any objective reason why Anet shouldn’t look into hotjoin other than your opinion that hotjoin shouldn’t be taken seriously.

What I’m saying is objective, if the gameplay mode is designed to be 5v5 and most of the matches are 4v5 or less then there is something fundamentally wrong. That has nothing to do with my opinion on whether or not hotjoin is a valid gameplay experience or not.

NeXeD.3042:

What exactly is the huge advantage to winning a hotjoin game…. the rewards are not enough to justify any of those players doing that. So why don’t all you people kittening join the bad team. It’s only going to make you better players in the long run. I pick the losing team everytime I join a new match.

Its not about the rewards, people played hotjoin before they reworked the reward system. Rewards might be the reason you pvp.

I personally started to do hotjoin because its a great place to try out different builds. Soloq and teamq is more rigid in this respect since it would be rude to go in with a untested build and jeopardize your allies rating.

They changed hotjoin so that its more of a stepping stone for less experienced players to get into soloq and teamq. Problem is its not teaching any of these players anything, since the ability to swap teams or side with the winning team doesn’t exist. So in this respect 5v5 in hotjoin imo is counter productive to this cause.

As it stands, with hotjoin in its current form it should be just like soloq but unrated. So that means no ability to team swap and the match starts with 5v5.

I expect to see it fixed around winterday event, due to dat six month development cycle.

Literally every hotjoin server is either:

1. 3v5
2. 4v5
3. Empty
4. Players who stack teams by abusing team swapping

Its very rare to have a 5v5 match, if you are lucky to get one its when the undermanned team is down 80 to 300 and even then that 5th player usually leaves so it ends up 4v5 again.

I think its absolutely disgraceful. The players have too much power in a match, elements like being able to swap teams, leaving the game mid match etc should be reserved for custom servers. That’s just my opinion though.

Bezagron.7352:

Okay so targeting a problem what can be do to improve or provide counter play?

Remembering this targeting noise is one of the benefits of summoning builds. Like stealth’s targeting benefits, being untargetable.

In GW skills existed that could annihilate summons. I think mesmer had a skill that did double damage if it hit spirits, Monk had a skill that did double damage to undead aka minions.

None of that exists now and probably can not due to the skill structure. For now the counter play that exists is just to simply kill the summon. This is a valid counter, since it takes 1 1/2 secs to resummon one. If you are running 3 summons then thats around 4.5 secs of being vulnerable to all type of attacks.

Not including guardian pets, I think most summons maybe too tanky in 1v1 encounters but too squishy in group encounters. Maybe they could scale pets similar to enemy npcs. The more people that are around, the more hp it has.

Tarsius.3170:

Unfortunately pets in general are implemented poorly and promote passive play which no-one enjoys fighting either with or against.

While guardian spirits have tons of issues, fixing them will still leave them in the same state as other NPC “helpers”.

I would prefer them to only activate skills on command ( rebalanced for command effect and CD ), or become actual utility summons ( like kits or elemental weapons ) to help promote more active or skillful play.

This will never happen.

Gw1 had the exact samethings:

1. Necro pets
2. Ranger spirits
3. Ritual spirits

They still had passive play but no one complained about a pet build in pvp. So I don’t feel the passive play is the issue at hand, I feel its the targeting system in conjunction with the fast pace dynamic game play.

Keksmuffin.1450:

Aza.2105:

Apparently you do care, which is why you created a entire post about how people should listen to you because you know better. You are looking for disciples to lead to pvp greatness. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem like anyone here is willing to follow you. I wonder why?

Could it be? COULD IT BE that every one has a different perspective and experiences other than your own. Most people like you don’t know how to deal with this reality. Since you need other people to agree with you and worship you in order for you to feel justified and important. The real reason why you need people to agree with you is because you are insecure.

P.S

It seems you are the one with the reading comprehension. Its obvious that you said shelter can get interrupt. But you failed to mention that when it does it goes on full cooldown without the user receiving the heal.

Okay I forgot to mention the full CD thingy in the original post, fair enough.

Apart from that… It’s not MY opinion that Shelter is the main heal for Guardians, it is actually pretty common knowledge.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/guardian/Guide-DPS-Guardian-for-PVE/first

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/c/4151192

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/c/4155408

Try to find a Guardian using Signet of Resolve in here.

But hey, I can really see how the personal attacks help you to bring your point across.

Personal attacks? I don’t have anything against you. Have you observed how you are interacting with other people? You opened up a thread to downplay anyone who disagrees with your idea of shelter being the best heal ever.

Then to show them that you are right you attached pictures of your pvp rank and told them to look at your leaderboard rank. Why? Just so you can again try to negate others perspective. Since from your view anyone who doesn’t equal or exceed your personal requirements in pvp doesn’t have a valid opinion.

Keksmuffin.1450:

tl;dr: I don’t care if you use it or not, I don’t care if you agree or not, Shelter is still better (in MOST situations anyways).

Apparently you do care, which is why you created a entire post about how people should listen to you because you know better. You are looking for disciples to lead to pvp greatness. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem like anyone here is willing to follow you. I wonder why?

Could it be? COULD IT BE that every one has a different perspective and experiences other than your own. Most people like you don’t know how to deal with this reality. Since you need other people to agree with you and worship you in order for you to feel justified and important. The real reason why you need people to agree with you is because you are insecure.

P.S

It seems you are the one with the reading comprehension. Its obvious that you said shelter can get interrupt. But you failed to mention that when it does it goes on full cooldown without the user receiving the heal.

To quote you:

“Shelter can only get interupted by own mistakes (running into a Line of Warding or similar stuff) and some unblockable stuff (Fear Me, traited Reaper’s Mark or Basilisk Venom with Larcenous Strike). This applies to both, DPS and Bunker Guard.”

Jerus.4350:

What about making the 50% duration trait into a permanent duration trait.

Eliminates a lot of the punishments listed. And, you’d still be able to counter them with killing the low hp pets that have a reasonable cool down upon dying. You’d still have to trait in them but they’d be much better and more reasonable.

Do that and fix bow to work correctly and I could see myself pulling them out.

This is a good idea, but I think it would be too powerful for a Tier 1 trait. I could see permanent duration trait being apart of eternal spirit.

It would make more sense if Bow was turned into a healing slot skill and made functional. It does have a 370 heal every 5 secs in addition to a condi removal every 5.5 secs. Thats powerful if it works.

Bow should replace litany of wrath and litany of wrath should be made a utility skill.