Guild Wars 2

Interesting find! I’ve been using searing flames on and off since the patch. Its a solid trait now.

Svarty.8019:

Aza.2105:

Svarty.8019:

Aza.2105:

Svarty.8019:

Aza.2105:

Svarty.8019:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

MastaNeenja.1537:

For the developers to stop saying “The Guardian is in a good spot”, and get out of that framework of thinking when it comes to Guardians.

QFT!!!!!

QFT II

I would like guardians to be brought up to warrior standard.

What is warrior standard?

Not trying to troll you or anything, but I want to see your perspective.

Let’s start with:

1. our passive heal being on a par with warrior’s signet, and
2. base HP pool being on a par with warrior

You might argue that they have to choose to have signet and our passive heal is free, but we don’t get Adrenaline powers.

Don’t you feel that comparing the two classes in that way is a bit one dimensional?

No.

I feel one of the most important things that people tend to leave out when comparing the two classes is ally support. Over 50% of Guardians skills affect allies, warrior has a much lower number for that.

I don’t feel that that is important in any way whatsoever.

Many of guardian heals affect allies,

[Citation Needed]

Certainly healing signet is better than vor traited or untraited. But then healing signet can’t be shared with allies. So there are definite advantages and disadvantages.

But VoR has to be traited to affect allies. You’re really not selling this argument to me at all.

The class also can spec “force of will” now which nobody will sacrifice (for example) that VoR-sharing trait for, thus making my previous comments void.

Fixed it for you.

You already have a preconceived notion of what you feel the guardian class is, it prevents you from seeing the advantages of the class compared to warrior. If a something about the class doesn’t fit into your perspective then its discarded as not being good.

Can we please focus on the topic at hand rather than wheeling out the amateur psychiatrist routine?

The topic is a “reasonable guardian wishlist”. Not a “why warriors are better than guardian” topic, you are the one who has deviated from the topic.

xFireize.6318:

Wait.. I thought warrior wanna-be guardians already moved on? Some still stuck in limbo, I see..

Many are still around and still comparing the class to warrior. To me they just cause suffering to themselves, they write posts complaining about how bad the class is in comparison to warrior. But there is nothing stopping them from playing warrior. Its ironic.

If another class fits into ones perception of what they feel good game mechanics is, then why not just play it? Guild Wars 2 is one of the easiest mmos to reroll in, even better since many things are now account shared instead of soul bound.

Svarty.8019:

Aza.2105:

Svarty.8019:

Aza.2105:

Svarty.8019:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

MastaNeenja.1537:

For the developers to stop saying “The Guardian is in a good spot”, and get out of that framework of thinking when it comes to Guardians.

QFT!!!!!

QFT II

I would like guardians to be brought up to warrior standard.

What is warrior standard?

Not trying to troll you or anything, but I want to see your perspective.

Let’s start with:

1. our passive heal being on a par with warrior’s signet, and
2. base HP pool being on a par with warrior

You might argue that they have to choose to have signet and our passive heal is free, but we don’t get Adrenaline powers.

Don’t you feel that comparing the two classes in that way is a bit one dimensional?

No.

I feel one of the most important things that people tend to leave out when comparing the two classes is ally support. Over 50% of Guardians skills affect allies, warrior has a much lower number for that.

I don’t feel that that is important in any way whatsoever.

Many of guardian heals affect allies,

[Citation Needed]

Certainly healing signet is better than vor traited or untraited. But then healing signet can’t be shared with allies. So there are definite advantages and disadvantages.

But VoR has to be traited to affect allies. You’re really not selling this argument to me at all.

The class also can spec “force of will” now which nobody will sacrifice (for example) that VoR-sharing trait for, thus making my previous comments void.

Fixed it for you.

You already have a preconceived notion of what you feel the guardian class is, it prevents you from seeing the advantages of the class compared to warrior. If a something about the class doesn’t fit into your perspective then its discarded as not being good.

If you don’t find the ability to support allies important then why play guardian?

Svarty.8019:

Aza.2105:

Svarty.8019:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

MastaNeenja.1537:

For the developers to stop saying “The Guardian is in a good spot”, and get out of that framework of thinking when it comes to Guardians.

QFT!!!!!

QFT II

I would like guardians to be brought up to warrior standard.

What is warrior standard?

Not trying to troll you or anything, but I want to see your perspective.

Let’s start with:

1. our passive heal being on a par with warrior’s signet, and
2. base HP pool being on a par with warrior

You might argue that they have to choose to have signet and our passive heal is free, but we don’t get Adrenaline powers.

Don’t you feel that comparing the two classes in that way is a bit one dimensional? I feel one of the most important things that people tend to leave out when comparing the two classes is ally support. Over 50% of Guardians skills affect allies, warrior has a much lower number for that.

Many of guardian heals affect allies, warriors have a small access to that in comparison (shout heals, regen banner). Further more, many of Guardian’s support aspects are innate or baseline. That I feel is the distinct advantage.

Certainly healing signet is better than vor traited or untraited. But then healing signet can’t be shared with allies. So there are definite advantages and disadvantages.

Personally speaking I feel Guardian’s hp is just right. The class also has force of will now which moves them to around medium tier hp.

Hunter.4783:

I cannot take seriously PVP videos where the guy you are fighting sits inside your Symbol of Wrath for the whole duration while taking a WW to the face.

Show clips with more competent players please.

At first you would think that sPVP players are more competent than WvW ones, but after this last patch its no longer the case.

Some players don’t take symbols very seriously and just stand in them, its arrogant.

I feel its fine. Try to look at it this way, shield of absorption is comparable to wall of reflect which is a utility skill. In addition it also heals. Shield is basically two utility slots moved to weapon slots.

oZii.2864:

Arken.3725:

Alright, lets take a look at the Majors:

Valor:

Glacial Heart: RNG based, long ICD. This felt like a poor attempt at giving the Guardian much needed soft-cc.

Focused Mind: A borderline useless one in the sense that since meditations are selfish builds, shouldn’t the effectiveness of the boons applied be stronger? A mere 4 seconds of fury when 3/4 of the meditations are on long cd’s doesn’t make much sense to me.

Honor:

Empowering Might: The ICD is what makes this trait useless. Now granted if it was removed, it could become op. Other options are far better in my opinion.

Force of Will: Just a very plain and boring trait to help Guardian’s deal with the low health issue. Seems very similar to the poor attempt at soft-cc.

These are just the ones I wanted to comment on the rest I agree with you.

Glacial Heart – 50% on Crit is pretty reliable, it’s aoe up to 5 targets, with a 4 second base chill which is very long. The icd is long though and you have no way to reduce it, maybe if two-hand mastery reduced this trait since it is with hammer it could see more use. It would then be 24 second cooldown for a 4 second base chill. I think it has potential to be powerful if you just went with base duration sigil of ice+hydro+glacial you could chill someone for 8 seconds thats with no duration investment.

Focused Mind – I agree with this one 4 seconds is short I think a bump up to 5 maybe 6 seconds would be better. 2 of the meditations are offensive in nature the rest are defensive with long cooldowns so 4 seconds is a bit to short. If you popped meds off cooldown with 20 virtues it’s about 50% uptime on fury but many times you aren’t just blowing them especially COP.

Empowering Might – Agree it could it’s not necessarily a bad trait it’s similar to Forceful great sword but that is tied to a weapon with cd reduction. Not sure how I feel about this one tbh.

Force of Will – It is bland yes but I personally like this trait it’s raw stats and raw stats are never a bad thing. If it was 300 power, Ferocity, or Precision I think people wouldn’t be so down on it.

I’m going to vouch for Ozii on Glacial Heart, its quite strong. With sigil of chilling and rune of ice with 30 in zeal it makes the chill duration go from 4 secs to a bit over 7 secs. That is in spvp. In wvw with food it will be even more with condition food. I feel the cooldown needs to be shaved a bit but aside from that due to the feature patch changes its indirectly better than it was before.

Svarty.8019:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

MastaNeenja.1537:

For the developers to stop saying “The Guardian is in a good spot”, and get out of that framework of thinking when it comes to Guardians.

QFT!!!!!

QFT II

I would like guardians to be brought up to warrior standard.

What is warrior standard?

Not trying to troll you or anything, but I want to see your perspective.

Bloodclot.4896:

I wish shield could block melee attacks, still seems odd to be that it can’t. I’d like a larger aoe range on scepter 2 and I’d like to see couragous return replaced with anything that doesnt completey suck, really hate it. At least so it worked from a dead state and not just downed.

Courageous return is definitely not a good trait. What makes it particularly bad to me is that it only works if you kill something while downed. So being rezzed or healing yourself doesn’t work.

AlexEBT.7240:

Do you really want to increase the difficulty on one of the main income sources in the game after all the nerfs we got on basically all the other forms of income in the game (farming, world bosses, temples, resource gathering,etc) outside tp flipping with the last patch?

Bring in new dungeons with harder content but leave the core alone, right now they are the income backbone to way too many players. Also they did make instances with content designed around what you ask for: aetherblade path in TA and the dredge fractal. We all know the result :P

My perspective is if they were to change AI, then they should increase the rewards from normal mobs and bosses to compensate for the change. If they implemented AI changes and left the rewards as they are now they no one would do them because the time vs the reward isn’t worth it.

Jahroots.6791:

Not exactly. But I don’t see any inherent value in having to learn ‘advanced’ video game mechanics. Some players enjoy this, others couldn’t care less.

Also, there simply isn’t enough endgame content to warrant making our existing dungeons any harder. Don’t forget that there’s still quite a few of players who don’t ever to dungeons because of the perceived difficulty.

As is dungeons are moderately challenging and do require some knowledge and skills, and I think this is adequate. Wouldn’t you prefer it if we could have more challenging mechanics in entirely new dungeons?

Advanced? I’d say its “common”. Even gw1 had these mechanics I mentioned:

“Inflicting multiple hits of damage from damage over time area of effect skills like Fire Storm, or Mark of Pain. This can cause foes to scatter out of the AoE.”

Gw2 is among one of few mmos I’ve played where stacking, and zerging is the tactic for 90% of fights. I’d say the other is Lineage 2.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Aggro

Jahroots.6791:

As is a lot of players struggle to learn and understand even these basic mechanics, so in a nutshell: Yes.

What the OP and some of the other posters describe sounds good in theory, but in practice I think it would just be annoying. Lots of raging and complaining on the forums as regular players try to figure things out and dispute new tactics among themselves, more rage quitting and arguments in-game. And for what? The same gold coin and handful of tokens. No, thank you.

I’m not against hard content. By all means, add it. But don’t replace what we already have.

Basically what you are saying is that players should stay ignorant to gameplay mechanics and that the developers should continue to appease this mindset where the player’s general strategy is to auto attack and occasionally heal while the mob is stuck in the corner.

Sorry, I can’t support this type of thinking. Its overall bad for the game and ultimately the players themselves. Its better for them to actually know and understand mechanics than to not at all. Content essentially revolves around strategy of fights and if fights all consist of: stacking, pushing mob into the corner, los in corner and lure mob and then aoe then no matter how much content they add it will be the same with the only difference being the cosmetics.

Jahroots.6791:

Einlanzer.1627:

Jahroots.6791:

No. We don’t want our dungeons to do different things, we want new dungeons, Please and Thank you.

Nice attempt at speaking for the community, but it’s a failure because you’re probably in the minority.

The game needs more rewarding content and better mob AI.

No, trust me. I pug dungeons daily. It is also common knowledge that most players avoid harder and time consuming dungeon paths, as evidenced by the LFG postings and discussions on the forum.

As for the latter , I agree to an extent. Hard content for good, consistent rewards would probably be well received. However, GW2’s track record for this isn’t very encouraging. Hence my view that we should keep things simple.

So its better to keep the mobs dumb so players do not have to think to do anything? Mobs might as well not have any AI and just sit there like target dummies.

KratosAngel.7289:

And suddenly you can now tank, heal and DPS, woot !

I disagree.

Changing the mob AI doesn’t change the way the core mechanics functioning. Are you suggesting that the concept of no holy trinity is so poorly designed in Guild Wars 2 that the AI needs to be bad to compensate for this? That because of lack of trinity, that each encounter needs to be: los in corner or knock mob against wall and aoe zerg?

There can never be a real healer in gw2 and that is a good thing. Traditional healers do not engage in combat, they sit behind the dps and tank. In gw2 a vast majority of healing that exists is incorporated into active combat.

My suggestion only gives more importance to builds that are focused on control and support. How?

Well if mobs scatter then a group would need cc to slow or immobilize them in order to maximize dps. If the strongest form of dps is aoe spamming and the ai is changed to scatter upon aoe then having area control skills would become very important. So this translates to condition duration becoming important, immobilize, chill, cripple, skills like ring of warding, warrior’s hammer will all find a place in pve.

Like wise, support and healing will become more important. Since there can be enemies that successfully scattered that are still targeting allies from afar. Right now support builds aren’t needed because enemies are dead long before support is needed.

Aedrion.6483:

The tomes boost your HP immensely and give a permanent boon when active, that is very powerful. I would like to see guardians retain utilities through it though, otherwise the skill feels too hampering for its 3 minutes cooldown.

The boon tomes provide can be stripped and it doesn’t refresh itself. So its not permanent I’m afraid. :<

Fellow Guardian players,

If you had a wishlist for guardian what would it be and why? Try to keep the wishlist reasonable as possible.

Here is mine:

• 1. Make scepter skill # 1 do piercing damage

I feel scepter is a solid weapon, I think one issue that is never mentioned is the lack of piercing damage for skill #1. In pvp if you are fighting a class with pets or clones, if the pet is in the way it will hit the pet instead of the target. Quite frustrating.

• 2. Improved spirit weapon AI and health

The AI is awful. There is nothing worse than seeing shield of avenger and bow of truth run off after targets when they are suppose to protect you. Really, it would be great if the AI for these two were changed to guard you.

Also, removing the mechanic where weapons are destroyed when you use the skills would be a great start to making the summons a bit less frustrating.

• 3. Perfect inscriptions

It would be nice if it was changed to share the passive mechanic of signets with nearby allies in addition to the 20% stat increase. In addition 20% is rather modest, there are minor traits like strength in numbers that give a higher stat bonus that PI does while applying it to allies as well.

• 4. Signets

Aside from Signet of Judgement, signets as a whole feel clunky. I personally feel its the cast time that causes this, but this is just my opinion. I feel that all the utility signets were instant casts or brought down to 1/4 sec cast then they would be used more.

The passive effects to Signet of Wrath and Mercy are poorly thought out. Increased condition damage isn’t worth the sacrifice vs other potential utilities and there is no need to ever use Mercy with a healing build. Signet of Mercy’s active effect is also underwhelming especially when compared to Rez signets available to other classes.

I don’t feel healing is broken, it seems to be in the right spot. On the other hand, healing power doesn’t seem to make a good primary stat or stat for that matter since even according to Anet healing is the least dynamic support.

It removes 3 conditions when first cast, after that it applies the -33% condition duration.

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Aza.2105:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Aza.2105:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Aza.2105:

Mostly all the traits listed by the OP are good, except a few. The problem with the traits perceived as bad is that they are only viewed that way because they do not fit into the “zerker meta”.

One example is shattered aegis, since most players are focused on “big numbers” they can’t seem to reconcile why choose it over a trait like fiery wrath.

Zerker meta doesn’t have anything to do with it, especially with any trait that requires you to be downed/rallied. I’m so glad you can read people’s minds for their motivations just by reading their posts alone…. oh wait. Nevermind.

Aza.2105:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Stars.2179:

Grimreaper.5370:

xFireize.6318:

I suggest play your guardian more to get a better grip on how it works. A few traits in your list are far from being useless. Please, at least try the trait yourself next time.

Care to elaborate on which traits you find useful and why?

Care to read the rest of the other posts before picking on one poster who probably didn’t care to list it because it’s already listed before?

Again I pointed out Communal Defenses is overpowered, which according to your opinion has little use and “bad”

Consider Shattered Aegis used in conjunction with Communal Defenses in a group of 20 – 40 guardians. Perma Aegis, perma damage to anything that touch that zerg and all they have to do is seat there and press F3 turn by turn once in a while.

Also Retributive Armor is good. It gives you minimum +3.4 % critical chance up to +6.5% crit chance for an adept trait (and please do your calculation before asking “oh where do you get your number”?). And for a DPS build +3.4% permanent crit chance is a lot, and for a bunker build +6.5% crit chance can help out.

You do know that the required range for Communal Defense is quite horrid, right? Sure it might be handy in a bottlenecked situation, but that’s it. I’m not sure it’s quite GM worthy. It’s not bad, but as a GM? I dunno.

No its not, its twice as large as a symbol. That is quite large.

Which are also not that great when it comes to WvW….

Depends under what circumstance, since its situational then it means that its relatively balanced. Any time a build or skill is viable in all situations means its too powerful. The only thing you are saying is communal defenses weakness is coordination. Cool, it has a weakness do you feel it shouldn’t?

See, look. You’re trying to do it again. You can’t read minds bub.

The fact that your group only has aegis for 5 seconds, that it does not affect you at all, and that AoE is king is it’s weaknesses. Should it have a 1200 range? No, that’s ridiculous, but it’s current range just encourages stacked playing, and we already have enough of that crap.

Also, Symbols are very situational, but that’s a different story.

Aoes makes communal defense work even better when one is traited for shattered aegis, not sure how that would be a weakness. Add in another guardian with communal defenses and shattered aegis and it makes it even better. The more guardians that run it the more beneficial it becomes. Have you even taken the time to extensively test it out at all?

Yes I have, and no it is not worth the tradeoff to the other GM traits…. by far.

• (with the exception of PvP. It may work well there, but definately not in WvW.)

As I’ve said, it’s not a bad trait, but it’s not a great one either.

What is your definition of “great” and “bad”?

Tarsius.3170:

The synergy between shattered aegis, pure of heart and communal defense could be a really nice thing, and it was one setup I was keen to try when I have a chance to play again.

However I am sure i’ve read that while the damage effects are sourced from every player who received aegis from you – it is you and just you that receives all the retaliation that is reflected back, which usually means insta-death for the caster in any kind of semi-organised wvw.

I am hoping that this is not the case – but I wouldn’t be surprised if it is.

I’m not sure, outside of pve I’ve tested it in hotjoin dm arena, just to see how much damage that combo can do. I do not recall myself ever dying to retaliation

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Aza.2105:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Aza.2105:

Mostly all the traits listed by the OP are good, except a few. The problem with the traits perceived as bad is that they are only viewed that way because they do not fit into the “zerker meta”.

One example is shattered aegis, since most players are focused on “big numbers” they can’t seem to reconcile why choose it over a trait like fiery wrath.

Zerker meta doesn’t have anything to do with it, especially with any trait that requires you to be downed/rallied. I’m so glad you can read people’s minds for their motivations just by reading their posts alone…. oh wait. Nevermind.

Aza.2105:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Stars.2179:

Grimreaper.5370:

xFireize.6318:

I suggest play your guardian more to get a better grip on how it works. A few traits in your list are far from being useless. Please, at least try the trait yourself next time.

Care to elaborate on which traits you find useful and why?

Care to read the rest of the other posts before picking on one poster who probably didn’t care to list it because it’s already listed before?

Again I pointed out Communal Defenses is overpowered, which according to your opinion has little use and “bad”

Consider Shattered Aegis used in conjunction with Communal Defenses in a group of 20 – 40 guardians. Perma Aegis, perma damage to anything that touch that zerg and all they have to do is seat there and press F3 turn by turn once in a while.

Also Retributive Armor is good. It gives you minimum +3.4 % critical chance up to +6.5% crit chance for an adept trait (and please do your calculation before asking “oh where do you get your number”?). And for a DPS build +3.4% permanent crit chance is a lot, and for a bunker build +6.5% crit chance can help out.

You do know that the required range for Communal Defense is quite horrid, right? Sure it might be handy in a bottlenecked situation, but that’s it. I’m not sure it’s quite GM worthy. It’s not bad, but as a GM? I dunno.

No its not, its twice as large as a symbol. That is quite large.

Which are also not that great when it comes to WvW….

Depends under what circumstance, since its situational then it means that its relatively balanced. Any time a build or skill is viable in all situations means its too powerful. The only thing you are saying is communal defenses weakness is coordination. Cool, it has a weakness do you feel it shouldn’t?

See, look. You’re trying to do it again. You can’t read minds bub.

The fact that your group only has aegis for 5 seconds, that it does not affect you at all, and that AoE is king is it’s weaknesses. Should it have a 1200 range? No, that’s ridiculous, but it’s current range just encourages stacked playing, and we already have enough of that crap.

Also, Symbols are very situational, but that’s a different story.

Aoes makes communal defense work even better when one is traited for shattered aegis, not sure how that would be a weakness. Add in another guardian with communal defenses and shattered aegis and it makes it even better. The more guardians that run it the more beneficial it becomes. Have you even taken the time to extensively test it out at all?

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Aza.2105:

Mostly all the traits listed by the OP are good, except a few. The problem with the traits perceived as bad is that they are only viewed that way because they do not fit into the “zerker meta”.

One example is shattered aegis, since most players are focused on “big numbers” they can’t seem to reconcile why choose it over a trait like fiery wrath.

Zerker meta doesn’t have anything to do with it, especially with any trait that requires you to be downed/rallied. I’m so glad you can read people’s minds for their motivations just by reading their posts alone…. oh wait. Nevermind.

Aza.2105:

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Stars.2179:

Grimreaper.5370:

xFireize.6318:

I suggest play your guardian more to get a better grip on how it works. A few traits in your list are far from being useless. Please, at least try the trait yourself next time.

Care to elaborate on which traits you find useful and why?

Care to read the rest of the other posts before picking on one poster who probably didn’t care to list it because it’s already listed before?

Again I pointed out Communal Defenses is overpowered, which according to your opinion has little use and “bad”

Consider Shattered Aegis used in conjunction with Communal Defenses in a group of 20 – 40 guardians. Perma Aegis, perma damage to anything that touch that zerg and all they have to do is seat there and press F3 turn by turn once in a while.

Also Retributive Armor is good. It gives you minimum +3.4 % critical chance up to +6.5% crit chance for an adept trait (and please do your calculation before asking “oh where do you get your number”?). And for a DPS build +3.4% permanent crit chance is a lot, and for a bunker build +6.5% crit chance can help out.

You do know that the required range for Communal Defense is quite horrid, right? Sure it might be handy in a bottlenecked situation, but that’s it. I’m not sure it’s quite GM worthy. It’s not bad, but as a GM? I dunno.

No its not, its twice as large as a symbol. That is quite large.

Which are also not that great when it comes to WvW….

Depends under what circumstance, since its situational then it means that its relatively balanced. Any time a build or skill is viable in all situations means its too powerful. The only thing you are saying is communal defenses weakness is coordination. Cool, it has a weakness do you feel it shouldn’t?

Lonewolf Kai.3682:

Stars.2179:

Grimreaper.5370:

xFireize.6318:

I suggest play your guardian more to get a better grip on how it works. A few traits in your list are far from being useless. Please, at least try the trait yourself next time.

Care to elaborate on which traits you find useful and why?

Care to read the rest of the other posts before picking on one poster who probably didn’t care to list it because it’s already listed before?

Again I pointed out Communal Defenses is overpowered, which according to your opinion has little use and “bad”

Consider Shattered Aegis used in conjunction with Communal Defenses in a group of 20 – 40 guardians. Perma Aegis, perma damage to anything that touch that zerg and all they have to do is seat there and press F3 turn by turn once in a while.

Also Retributive Armor is good. It gives you minimum +3.4 % critical chance up to +6.5% crit chance for an adept trait (and please do your calculation before asking “oh where do you get your number”?). And for a DPS build +3.4% permanent crit chance is a lot, and for a bunker build +6.5% crit chance can help out.

You do know that the required range for Communal Defense is quite horrid, right? Sure it might be handy in a bottlenecked situation, but that’s it. I’m not sure it’s quite GM worthy. It’s not bad, but as a GM? I dunno.

No its not, its twice as large as a symbol. That is quite large.

Mostly all the traits listed by the OP are good, except a few. The problem with the traits perceived as bad is that they are only viewed that way because they do not fit into the “zerker meta”.

One example is shattered aegis, since most players are focused on “big numbers” they can’t seem to reconcile why choose it over a trait like fiery wrath.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

The build is fairly typical of a meditation style. In Tpvp/soloQ this build is usually called “Off-guard.” It can assist at mid in taking down individual targets, and when needed return to either home, or push far for 1 vs 1 situations. The only weakness to it is that it has limited condition removal and any necro that has greater marks will negate all the blocks this build has, as well as any blinds. To be entirely fair, this build is best suited for hotjoin fun. In hotjoin matches when I see this build as a great sword warrior/terrormancer/bunker guardian/shatter mesmer they do put up a strong beginning fight, but having played a guardian I know which skills are slow and lethargic, all its animations and times when blocks will expire. After that, it is only a matter of time before I can spike them down. Usually when I see them use renewed focus, it means the end is near for them due to there average health pool/toughness. However, it is indeed a fun build to play for warriors who want to change things up a bit. I would also recommend not using it in dungeons/fractals. Every
time I have seen it appear in fractals over lvl 25, it just becomes a revive dump before team mates begin to question whether it should get booted.

Its true, meditation guards lack longevity. The longer the fight drags out the worst they get. I think the core issue is aside from smite condition, the other meditations cds are too long to provide good sustain.

Objectively though, all builds should have a weakness. This is just the weakness of a med guard.

I’d rather them change light field combos to be something other than retaliation.

Dalanor.5387:

After beta, necro bunker got nerfed beyond oblivion and Anet shamlessly affraid to buff them in that role, so guardians are uncontested bunkers in the game.
And due to their wide variety and good support they are too valuable in both WvW and PvE. Every defensive thing in the game is available to them, except weakness.

Actually guardian has decent access to weakness:

Signet of Judgement and Shield of Avenger.

Zephyron.7081:

Okay, why would it be tricky to land all of those procs? I would only need to block every 20 seconds while being near my Zerg, right? In between blocks I would use staff as support.

Its easy to land when you are doing something like teq.

Bash.7291:

Aza.2105:

Bash.7291:

My question is though, is that really better than what a power guard could have done? Yes, you can get high burning numbers, but is it going to be better than what you could achieve with a power build, if not, then whats the point?

I’ll be bold enough to say that condition guardian maybe in a better overall position than a power guardian in pvp. I say this because the number 1 offender (lack of soft cc) does not stop a condition guardian from doing damage.

Amplified wrath is a extraordinary trait, the biggest problem is the preceding traits leading up to amplified wrath do nothing to synergize with the trait. Other than fiery wrath of course, but if one is condition spec I’m not sure if fiery wrath is worth it.

In sPvP? No. The lack of soft CC is pretty much not noticed just due to the fact of capture points. Hell, the fact that mace can actually be used in sPvP is clear indicator of that.

In roaming/small group WvW, it all depends. Scepter is an amazing weapon assuming you know better than to try to use it at full range. When used like a melee weapon with extended range it really does a good job at keeping damage on someone. Also with the changes to runes of speed/traveler (a few patches ago) keeping one someone isn’t as bad as it used to be. Also now with the added rune slot we can add in either sigil of ice or hydromancy to help with some soft CC. Or you can just be a complete jerk and use Reaper of Grenth to troll.

In large group, well the lack of soft cc is thrown out the window anyways…

And I do agree that the new grandmaster is a pretty decent trait, but as you said, it is in a horrible place. It has no synergy with anything else in the line, and if you want to build on it with something like permeating wrath or radiant retaliation, you pretty much have to sacrifice any and all survivability. I was Just playing around tying to make an AoE large group burn build and going 6/x/x/x/6 earlier on one of the build sites, going full dire I sat at around 3k armor and 17k health, which is fairly modest, but the issue is that there was no way to heal any of it. And considering that permeating wrath is focused on the guardian, you HAVE to be in the middle of the fights to land it.

Also, as far as radiant retaliation goes, the cap kills it. It barely does enough more than a decent power build would, and either you have to choose to go that route and spec into virtues to get really good uptime, or you have to go the extra burning damage and forget about condition retal as you wont have the points to get the extra uptime from virtues (3 trait points for retal on virtues)

I feel that lack of soft cc will always be a problem, its just to a lesser extent in spvp. It doesn’t mean the weakness isn’t present however.

What is weird is that three different trait lines are involved with the burning condition somehow. It makes it difficult to obtain many great traits that would help optimize a condition build.

So far in my experiments I’ve settled with 30 in zeal and 30 in radiance for maximum burn. 30 in virtues is great depending because of the better ret uptime and pbaoe burning and supreme justice. Overall condition guardian is in a way better place than its every been.

I feel anet just needs to bring more focus in the zeal line and fix up radiant retaliation. Maybe remove the damage cap if you have the trait? Zeal line is completely weird, if you run spirit weapons it has synergy. But with no spirit weapons the traits seem to be all over the place.

CountzuCrytus.7256:

What are your opinions on Communal Defenses?
Is it worth taking over Altruistic healing?
How does it work exactly? Does it proc every time you block in general?
Does it work with aegis or only with skills like focus 5? or Mace 3.

Just how AH goes well with hammer, CM goes well with mace.

Here are a few points that many people fail to mention because they have failed to experiment with it:

• It doesn’t have a target cap, so when you proc aegis the entire zerg receives it.

• It can proc pure of heart on everyone

• It can proc shattered aegis on everyone

• It can proc wrathful spirit on everyone

My opinion on the trait is that its very good, it goes much better with the mace due to skill #3. The skill has a 20 sec internal cooldown and yes it works with focus #5 or any block you do. That includes, shelter, virtue of courage, valorous defense etc.

Bash.7291:

My question is though, is that really better than what a power guard could have done? Yes, you can get high burning numbers, but is it going to be better than what you could achieve with a power build, if not, then whats the point?

I’ll be bold enough to say that condition guardian maybe in a better overall position than a power guardian in pvp. I say this because the number 1 offender (lack of soft cc) does not stop a condition guardian from doing damage.

Amplified wrath is a extraordinary trait, the biggest problem is the preceding traits leading up to amplified wrath do nothing to synergize with the trait. Other than fiery wrath of course, but if one is condition spec I’m not sure if fiery wrath is worth it.

messiah.1908:

Trice.4598:

The biggest issue with condis guard is not the damage, or sustain, for me it’s mostly the fact that we do not have any cripple, or chill, or fear, or AoE condition (except for traited VoJ?) A good necro will give you about EVERYTHING, so your heal won’t be as effective (Poison) your cooldown will be slow (Chill) you will be slow (cripple, chill) while receiving bleed, fire, torment damage. Warrior will put fire, cripple, bleed and CC you at the same time. Same goes for every other classes.

Even if the guard fire hits for 1k (in PvP it’s more like 800) it’s the only thing we have.

Also in PvP, the fact that we have low health pool means we have to go for HP or toughness, either way we get wrecked by either conditions (Toughness) or by any burst build (HP with trait and gear is hardly over 18k)

the main difference is guardian can put perma burning while other profession cant.
in pvp my burning dmg is between 950-1050 and retaliation is 192 combine with swap sigil of bleeding and poison and you got yourself another 3 stack of bleed 300+250
so total of 1750 dps from conditions

necro can put between 4-6 bleed, poison,2-3 torment which do about 1300-1800 dps. sure he can use fear (trait) for 1k dmg tick, and burning but you need to dodge them or block
1 video a fight me fighting condi necro. my hp was 10k and didnt drop at all as i manage to block all his burst conditions skills. just need practice

@Dirame +1
couldnt agree more
burning guardian starting to be more viable in small scale fight
even if you try to ignore the fight you’re dishing out good dmg
without hitting a mesmer i could get him to 10% hp just by blocking and when he put viel i JI and he burn himself to death.

Don’t forget to add binding blade into the equation, with rabid amulet it does around 430ish per tick for 10secs I believe.

JamesAckley.7541:

To be clear, Guild Wars 2 does support surround, if you have speakers and hardware to support it, like what nuggant has.

The problem StinVec is referring to is if you set the game to Surround but only have 2 speakers, you will lose sounds since it’s trying to route the audio to speakers that don’t exist.

Hope that helps.
james

Is it possible to add a option in the audio tab that allows one to change their speaker configuration?

Hunter.4783:

Having to rely on sigils to get a condi build to start being valiable is the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard.

Lets look at condi warriors shall we? They don’t need a sigil for bleeding, do they?

AND warriors get 6k more health for free too so don’t get me started on how “tanky” guardians are.

And you still have not provided any argument on how kittenty spirit weapons are to this day.

What you are saying here is one of the core problems that plagues most suggestions and complaints. As soon as you begin to compare another class the argument becomes invalid.

One common element is when comparing classes people tend to compare what they perceive as the good things about the “better class” while not mentioning the negatives, like wise the class they feel is under powered they only mention what they perceive is bad. The result is the comparison becomes rather one sided.

In regards to the guardian class, mostly all skills and utilities tend to follow a common theme: ally support. I made a post several days ago illustrating how well over 50% of guardian’s weapon skills and utilities are geared towards supporting allies in some way. This is the only class that has that much support baked into utilities and weapon skills. This isn’t taking traits into consideration. It should be apparent that guardian is geared towards being the pillar in group, the foundation that other classes revolve around.

Yes the biggest negative is guardian is its a bit behind when it comes to 1v1 in dps or conditions. But their strength is when you placed them in group they can provide extraordinary support or pressure via dps or condition damage.

I suspect that many people who test condition builds with guardian go at it from the angle of a 1v1 against a necro or mesmer etc. They wind up losing and deeming that guardian sucks at conditions. In gw1 this type of mentality probably wouldn’t exist, because roles were more refined in pvp. I consider the role of condition guardian is that of one who can put constant aoe pressure on enemies not one who is a duelist or roamer.

Following the reoccurring theme, guardian is a group class at any aspect of the game. Thats the strength of the class and weakness. Certainly warrior is better at 1v1 battles but inferior when it comes to supporting the group and providing area sustained damage and pressure via conditions. This is my opinion of course, but I like to look at things from a objective perspective.

Bash.7291:

Something that could actually be compared to a power build? As it stands, there really is no up side to take conditions compared to power as a guardian, be it bunker, glass cannon, or somewhere in between.

From my experience, one positive is that a condition build is less affected by the lack of soft cc like a power build is. Kiting a condition guardian is much less effective since burning, binding blade and retaliation can be applied at range. Defenders’s flame works well with shelter while trying to close distance. Sigil of earth, geomancy and doom can also keep ticking while the enemy tries to close the distance.

So in my opinion a conditon build does have different strengths over a power build.

Bash.7291:

Aza.2105:

Bash.7291:

Aza.2105:

Bash.7291:

Aza.2105:

Bash.7291:

Maybe if they gave us torment on crit they would need any of these stupid attempts that fail hard…

Why not just use sigil of torment?

A) Not available in sPvP
B) A single extra stack of a stacking condition is near pointless. And the AoE on it is only a 180 radius.

With sigil of torment and rune of tormenting, I can maintain 2 stacks just by auto attacking with the sword. Using a heal will make it 4 stacks.

In spvp try sigil of earth, doom and geomancy.

I am not sure why exactly you are telling me this, I simply said that instead of giving us another fail of a condition grandmaster trait they could just simply give us a torment on crit trait that would help alot of issues and would make sense in our perc/cond line.

I’m saying there is no need to think about it not being in a trait line when you can easily get the sigil in pve/wvw. I mentioned sigil of earth, doom and geomancy because those can be used since there is no sigil of torment in spvp.

There is a need to think about it, because sigils/runes alone are NOT enough to make guardians have a viable condition build. MAYBE a hybrid build could work, and I have been testing and trying to make it work, but as it stands at the moment, a straight condition build does not work because we have to give up way to much to get it ,just like amins said.

The term viable is completely subjective. So I’m going to ask you what would your objective for a condition build be. Would it be bursting the enemy down with conditions faster than they can recover? Would it be a more team oriented role were you continuously apply pressure that will eventual overwhelm the enemy group?

Bash.7291:

Aza.2105:

Bash.7291:

Aza.2105:

Bash.7291:

Maybe if they gave us torment on crit they would need any of these stupid attempts that fail hard…

Why not just use sigil of torment?

A) Not available in sPvP
B) A single extra stack of a stacking condition is near pointless. And the AoE on it is only a 180 radius.

With sigil of torment and rune of tormenting, I can maintain 2 stacks just by auto attacking with the sword. Using a heal will make it 4 stacks.

In spvp try sigil of earth, doom and geomancy.

I am not sure why exactly you are telling me this, I simply said that instead of giving us another fail of a condition grandmaster trait they could just simply give us a torment on crit trait that would help alot of issues and would make sense in our perc/cond line.

I’m saying there is no need to think about it not being in a trait line when you can easily get the sigil in pve/wvw. I mentioned sigil of earth, doom and geomancy because those can be used since there is no sigil of torment in spvp.

Amins.3710:

Aza.2105:

Yes so its like I’ve written in the previous two posts. If changes do not fit what they believe guardian is or should be then its rejected and deemed as useless. The guardian community are some of the most rigid players I’ve ever seen. They will constantly complain about no changes to the class, when the opposite is true. There are plenty of changes its just with their fossilized thinking they do not make any use of them.

It’s not a buff if it can’t be put into a viable build.

Mediations were a slight buff – not great but absolutely needed in order to make the Med Build work in the current meta. Tha’ts not a buff, that’s a balance change.

Consecrations were a buff – however, you’re only using them in Zerg vs Zerg (buff to 1 playstyle and again, buff’d to compensate for the Condi Meta we’re in… not a buff to gameplay… it was a reactional buff)

Everything else was basically useless because the lack in Synergy between trait lines and the current mentality of everyone NOT guardian expecting them to play a certain way because they don’t want to reduce their damage.

Go figure, eh (Aza)?

How would you define viable?

E Tan.7385:

The problem IS NOT the backstab, the problem is the absence of stealth counter.

A skill that does that much damage with a near instant cast time, that you can’t see coming, that you can’t counter play is a problem. Stealth just intensifies the situation.

The requirements are rock bottom with backstab:

1. Go stealth
2. Doesn’t matter if you miss, do it again because you aren’t revealed
3. Hit from the back and sides despite the text specifying it only works from the back.

1. leaves room for a lot of error for the thief, they do not even have to be behind the users to hit for full damage. If they did, I believe landing it would be far more difficult and would require a certain type of setup for them to do it.

In regards to the target receiving the backstab lets look at their options:

1. Try to run
2. Aegis, Blind, Dodge
3. Play a guessing game and aoe

If you observe the cards that the receiver of backstab can use most of a common theme rng or uncertainty. With #1, you can try to run but since you can’t see the thief you can not know for certain if this tactic is countering it.

With #2 active mitigation do not prevent the stab from landing, it only slows the process down by milliseconds. So its not an real counterplay since it does not punish the thief from missing the stab.

With #3 its the most common solution thieves try to give. “Just aoe and they die!” I don’t see many thieves stupid enough to stay in aoe. In fact most thieves are often far out of distance if they do stealth to get away from aoe.

Most people know that guild wars 2’s combat system is supposedly the way it is so that each individual can read animations to determine how they will counter play. Thief however is exempt from this rule with stealth, in fact they are exempt from many different rules of combat.

If you look at my screenshot earlier in the thread, I got hit for 14.5k in spvp. The thing is, I never even seen the thief before hand. I was at the point by myself when I was suddenly dead. How can one counter play that? They can’t.

Most thief players like to assume that each player fighting against them should be psychic. Like I should of known that thief was there before hand and got my defensive skills up. Unfortunately things do not work that way.

ArchonWing.9480:

Well let’s see here:

1.) Great for PvE
2.) Pretty interesting, purging flames is more popular these days.
3.) Still useless, as with anything involving burn builds

5+7.) A critical change for meditation dps guardians, since instead of taking a trait just to make them instant, we can give it fury.
6. Not really sure
8.) Still a marginal trait but I can see some use for it
9.) Very powerful trait for pve and roaming
10.) Good buff, but this trait is in zeal which is just hard to take as its damage and nothing else
11.) Spirit weapons being destroyed makes them hard to use.
12.) I still haven’t been convinced to use it
13.) Good buff, but trait is very hard to take given what it competes with.
14.) Scepter is more usable
15.) Ok
16.) Great for AH guardians
17.) Trait remained useless until it was recently changed to not go on cooldown when it didn’t remove a boon. It’s finally something now
18.) no comment
19.) The old version must have been terrible

Overall, that seemed to be a lot of good changes, though yes these changes don’t hit a lot of people who want all dps or all bunker.

Yes so its like I’ve written in the previous two posts. If changes do not fit what they believe guardian is or should be then its rejected and deemed as useless. The guardian community are some of the most rigid players I’ve ever seen. They will constantly complain about no changes to the class, when the opposite is true. There are plenty of changes its just with their fossilized thinking they do not make any use of them.

Bash.7291:

Aza.2105:

Bash.7291:

Maybe if they gave us torment on crit they would need any of these stupid attempts that fail hard…

Why not just use sigil of torment?

A) Not available in sPvP
B) A single extra stack of a stacking condition is near pointless. And the AoE on it is only a 180 radius.

With sigil of torment and rune of tormenting, I can maintain 2 stacks just by auto attacking with the sword. Using a heal will make it 4 stacks.

In spvp try sigil of earth, doom and geomancy.

Bash.7291:

Maybe if they gave us torment on crit they would need any of these stupid attempts that fail hard…

Why not just use sigil of torment?

xFireize.6318:

Consecrations and Meditations got buffed. Spirit Weapons actually got buffed too since they lost their vulnerability, although they were pretty much extra HP which didn’t solve the dying problem.

A list of buffs off hand:

1. Unscathed Contender went from 10% to 20%.
2. Conscreatios were buffed: Hallowed Ground gained 20% boon duration, Purging Flames gained 33% condition reduction and a lower cd.
3. Supreme Justice was buffed to 3 attacks to proc burning instead of 4.
5. Meditations were made instant
6. Merciful Intervention had its CD reduced
7. Focused Mind was buffed to give Fury
8. Zealous Blade was made to scale with healing power
9. Powerful Blades was buffed to 10% up from 5%
10. Scepter Power was buffed to 10% up from 5% (I think this was buffed, I could be wrong).
11. Spirit weapons got a trait that increased their damage by 50%
12. Healing Breeze got buffed several times: The first being a area cone increase, the second had its based healing increased for allies and the third happened with the feature patch.
13. Mace of Justice was buffed to give 250 healing power, this gives just as many stats as a entire trait line.
14. Scepter- Orb of Wrath had its velocity increased
15. Pure of Heart: Increased scaling with healing power from 25% to 40%
16. Retributive Armor: Increased the conversion rate from 5% to 7%
17. Searing Flames: Reduced the cooldown from 20 seconds to 10 seconds
18. Shattered Aegis: This trait now applies damage instead of burning
19. Shielded Mind: I’m pretty sure this one got buffed so that it also affects allies.

Out of this list, the majority of guardian players might use one or two. Because the rest of the buffs do not fit into their mentality of how guardian should be played. That is to say that if it does make a dungeon run take 20secs less or in pvp if the changes do not enable the player to kill targets in secs then its not useful.

Hunter.4783:

SO now dear sir, tell me how the guardians can enjoy more variety when half of our skills and traits are worthless? You can try spirit weapons for 5 min before you realize how subpar they are to everything else.

You shouldn’t waste your time asking questions when the only thing you want is others to agree with you so that what you believe will be self justified.

I do not for a minute think that guardian lacks variety, I however do think the vast majority of guardian players do lack variety. Currently the vast majority of the guardian community is hung up with max dps in pve and bunkering in pvp. Heaven forbid the poor soul who comes along who presents something different to these players, they will be shot down and ridiculed.

The new traits do not appeal to these “pve” players because they do not focus on dps. They do not appeal to pvp players because they like their pve counterparts are chained to the idea that guardian only bunkers.

My perspective is that even when Anet does make positive changes that further enhances variety that these players won’t know it if they seen it. Since if it doesn’t fit within their limited spectrum how guardian should play then its quickly rejected.

The only advice to you that I can give is if you are looking for variety then you have to start with yourself and not the class.

Obtena.7952:

Only 3 hits to trigger passive VoJ. Used to be 4.

Old news. They changed this sometime ago.

Virtues VIII—Supreme Justice: Decreased the number of attacks from 4 to 3.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-December-10-2013/first#post3412596

Hunter.4783:

This patch brought NOTHING to guardians but a heavy nerf (vigor).

All the GM traits are trash…even worse so.

A passive GRANDMASTER trait that gives 3k health in the hopes to fix the huge HP disparity with warriors? Boring and will never get picked over Pure of Voice.

Communal defenses sounded cool until we found out it didn’t give back aegis to the guardian AND had a 20 sec internal cooldown.

Virtues trait tries to balance the nerf to Vigor but fails because traits X and IX will ALWAYS be better. if I even went 30 points in virtues I would sure as hell pick IX and X, never this new trait.

And now, the best for last…the zeal and radiance traits…

What can I say, I thought they were a joke at the start, but lo and behold, they were not. Funny thing is that we already have another grandmaster trait in zeal which also buffs burn damage, so I wonder, why have 2 traits only the same trait line which pretty much do the same thing? Are the devs braindead when it comes to guardians? Do none of the QA ever play guardians? Was this trait a mistake?

Radiant retaliation….equally as bad as the zeal trait… Anet hopes to push guardians towards a condi heavy build while giving the class no means to apply any other cover condies nor have a reliable ranged way to spam conditions ala necro, thief, warrior, etc.
Again, this trait is an absolute joke.

Why is the community ignored when it comes to this class? Guardian is now the most boring and 1 dimentional class in the game and everyday guardian veterans and switching over to warriors.

Why are our spirit weapons STILL broken to this day? Why are half our signets worthless?

While some of what you say has truth to it, most of what you are saying is mere bickering. On patch day I came to a startling conclusion: Its not the guardian class that has become stagnate, its the people who play them that have.

Most guardian players are hog tied to certain ideas of what they feel guardian is and what it can do in most game play modes. The result is that innovation is choked since the vast majority of the guardian community does not take the time to sit down to try to experiment and draw their own conclusions. Instead, they need to wait for someone to lead them into trying different builds. When it takes one individual to make videos and threads of possible builds to even get most of the community to try something new, you know there is a problem.

With this patch, most guardian players shot down the new traits before even giving them a try. Why? Because in reality they do not want new things, they are fine with what they have. They only want things that confirm what they personally feel the class is. So if something new is presented and it does not fit their ideal of what guardian should have, they will reject it.

The class feels rigid and non innovative because most of the players are. This will continue as long as guardian players remain fixated on what they deem “viable builds”.

fadeaway.2807:

I’m finding it hard to verify but it definitely looks like a lot more than 4-5 aegis being thrown out every time I block. It looks like it might be everyone in 360 range.

I’ve seen a dozen aegis thrown out just because I blocked once.

Can anyone else verify? This is going to be very interesting in zergs/wvw if true.

I already mentioned this in the “guardians new traits suck threads”. Yea it has no target cap from what I understand. At tequatl it proc pure of heart for everyone around me, so I’m guessing it works the same with shattered aegis. Which means shattered aegis will do extraordinary damage in wvw.

Dirame.8521:

Retal test, you can see how high it can get in PvP with 24 might stacks.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xUbJi7Qtm0

xFireize.6318:

500 per tick does hurt. Is that in PvP or WvW, Dirame? Remember that the damage is reduced by 33% in PvP and WvW. How much condi damage do you have?

It was in SPvP; Without might stacks 1577. With 10 might stacks, it’s 1927 or thereabouts.

In WvW, you can probably get that to over 600 retal damage per tick.

EDIT: AH WvW has a retal cap. Nevermind that.

The spvp lobby does not have the retal cap. So that is why you were seeing big numbers. As soon as you get into a spvp match your ret will hit for around 271 or so with that amount of condition damage. And a bit over 315 per tick if you manage to get to 1927