Hyade and his flamethrower
The only solution is to drop all concept of competitive WvW (what little remains of that) and also megaserver the WvW fights. That would cause other problems of course, but it would take care of this one and a few others WvW currently faces (like server alliances and spying).
Hyade and his flamethrower
its quite widely rumored that BG and JQ have guilds with access to both servers and they decide who gets 1st place every week.
Is this true? because it seems like TC only gets first if BG and JQ allows it.
at least thats what the rumor says.
You just defined what JQ and TC did awhile ago. I hope you missed it because it was miserable for everyone involved excluding the dedicated few on JQ and TC that manipulated their entire servers into not fighting for weeks. All that just because they didn’t get first place for the one time in months.
I wouldn’t be too surprised if it spread, though. There are some messed up individuals that treat WvW like players in EVE treat alliance wars, all the way down to spying and using propaganda. It seems unfortunately natural that it would spread here like it did there.
Hyade and his flamethrower
(edited by BAITness.1083)
Because of cheating. Because ANet doesn’t care. I am not going to waste my time trying to have fun while two servers coordinate with each other and their spies on our server to prevent a real fight.
Hyade and his flamethrower
I quite enjoy looking at NA gold, and seeing that it is the only league out of 6 of them, where one server didn’t win EVERY SINGLE WEEK. NA gold (T1) is the only league playing WvW properly.
Seriously, NA silver/bronze and all 3 EU leagues have one server face rolling the rest. That. Is. Boring.
NA gold for president.
You’re kidding right? Because gold is also a joke right now. Instead of having 1 server getting the wins(which only happened in season 1 because SoR was weak and crumbled from week 2, they sided with bg in week 1) we now have 2 servers TC and JQ double teaming and trading wins the entire tournament for 1st and 2nd overall, all that for 50 more tickets so gg.
And yes seasons are a joke and will continue to be a joke, as long as Anet does nothing to support spreading out the population. Way to help bandwagon HoD in silver league ANet, way to throw off the balance right before the tournament and then get servers locked in the wrong places, way to go. Swiss doesn’t exactly work with a 3 vs, 6 team bracket, mags and db end up facing each other the entire tournament and getting beat on by the top 4 servers.
T1 needs to be locked into their own bracket after tournament, maybe then people will get blobsick of each other up there and start spreading out. SoS needs to lose some weight and go back to T2 status than T1.5, Mags could probably use some ocx, DB could probably use na, HoD will probably step up into T2.
If they planned on having the events/living story starting up next week then the tournament should have ended this week at the latest.
I think a lot of T1 agrees with you, I don’t think anyone comes here expecting small fights. We came because we enjoy big fights all around the clock. The problem, like you said, is the win trading preventing there from being any interesting fights. Seasons surely brought out the worst.
At least we aren’t in the EU situation where hackers are running around like crazy. Actually maybe that sounds less bad. Either way, no fun to be had in seasons.
Edit: BUT WE ALL GET NEW WEAPON SKINS. Three cheers for the most game changing new wvw content since mastery!
Hyade and his flamethrower
Everyone thinks it is so simple to create and balance a game. People have put forth ideas, in these forums, that some of the player base would like and others wouldn’t.
Anet built the game mode the way they wanted to, based off of what was already on the market. Even ESO based their pvp off of GW2 and DAoC, and it has the same scoring mechanic everyone complains about here (PPT). It has zergs, etc, etc.
Look, it would be nice to get something new, but it isn’t easy to mess with a competitive game mode like WvW. People are already fanatical about it, just think about the fact that the majority of people who play WvW, are not in these forums complaining, and generally enjoy the game mode. Why would Anet want to kitten off the non-vocal majority, for the few vocal minority?
I am not so certain there is a non vocal majority here. About 90% of the people I knew that really enjoyed WvW quit the game for various reasons. I actually feel like there is far better retention among players that step in once in awhile, or do it on the side.
Edit: 90% may be a bit high, but I am talking about the people I knew that played GW2 only for WvW. Most of the ones I knew stopped playing, including all my old theorycrafting buddies, every one of my old favorite commanders, and most of my old guildies.
Hyade and his flamethrower
(edited by BAITness.1083)
So this has been my first tournament. I was there at the start, wide eyed and eager to fight for the pride of my server. Throughout April, I poured as much effort as I could into the tournament. But for the past week or two, I’ve started dreading the experience. The feeling of obligation to put in as much time as you possibly can, taking away from many other aspects of the game, is really starting to get to me. Two months is just a long kitten time, and I don’t think it should be that way for future tournaments. I would rather see a series of 10 three day matches over one month, rather than the 8 one week matches we’re seeing this time around.
What are your thoughts on the length of the current tournament, and what do you think should happen in that regard for future tournaments?
This is my second tourney and I am not burned out.
If people aren’t pacing themselves in WvW, that’s a personal responsibility issue, not a gaming issue.
Go for a walk.
Clean your room.
Do the dishes.
Do the laundry.
Talk to your friends.
Spend time with family and friends.
Go into WvW bright eyed again…
All of these are great suggestions.
This all sounds like a lot of fun.
Except for the last one.
Hyade and his flamethrower
I think 2v1 is an intended part of the game, there are tons of counter measures in place for it, especially during a tournament like this where one of the 2v1 servers will keep getting dropped out of the matchup.
Win trading to make sure that doesn’t happen is certainly against the defined rule. It gets even worse when it is possible to trade wins to first and second place with no legit wins.
If anet finds this was the case they should take action.
Hyade and his flamethrower
I think it’s not cool, but at least it doesn’t look like they are up to anything other than having fun. Either way, it is just a few people, I doubt their server mates approve of them doing that – unless they bring a dolyak next time. Everyone approves of the doly.
Hyade and his flamethrower
Edit: woah that was way faster than I expected
Hyade and his flamethrower
(edited by BAITness.1083)
Is it very interesting to spew your server propaganda in every single thread and get every single one of them locked because it gets derailed into server mud-slinging? Not everyone is interested in the history and workings of the great Blackgate, some people just want to talk about the tournament and its implementation without tripping on a crying player on every turn. Is that so hard for you to accept?
Edit: changed my mind, not taking the obvious bait. Seriously though, the hypocrisy was a good touch.
Hyade and his flamethrower
(edited by BAITness.1083)
What is wrong with you.
What’s your problem?
Hyade and his flamethrower
I am not saying I can think of a better tournament style, but yeah this definitely stinks.
I am going to have a tactical netflix binge instead of joining WvW. Better strategy. Plus Trailer Park Boys.
Hyade and his flamethrower
If you really think that JQ and TC have the same coverage as BG then I’ve got some nice ocean front property to sell you in Orr.
I also think JQ and TC have the same coverage as BG. I play in BG and most of the time I see same for some time greater amount of player from JQ. Please provide prove to your claim. At sometime BG only have one full size team.
I think they mistake our float team for a full group on every map sometimes, which I guess is credit to the float. But yes, I believe that JQ and TC have equal coverage to BG this season, and that it is only equal when we count BG’s large PvE population that fortunately is coming to play. We saw how drastic the coverage difference is without that population pre tournament, where BG got beaten for months.
JQ and TC claiming that BG outnumbers them is really ludicrous.
Edit: and thanks tom for putting some numbers in the post above this. People that claim bought guilds usually have not thought about how absurd the claim is.
Hyade and his flamethrower
How does it matter? Servers have always bought guilds to transfer to their server in order to win, how is buying guilds on other servers to attack the third server any different?
In this case its for tourney position, not just gold. It sucks but there’s nothing you can do about it.
It is worth fixing this misconception also. First, please list any bought guilds on any of the servers in this tournament. Also, the having guilds on other servers thing is something JQ tried to do in Season 1 as well. Unfortunately TC had some guild leaders that were far more receptive and dedicated to it.
Hyade and his flamethrower
First of all, this is not a qq, so save your childish insults and yes I’m from BG, if that matters.
Point is, I just want to know if this was ever thought of when devs designed the wvw. I get the “smaller servers team up to fight larger server” kinda vibe but it seems to me that at this point it’s not just that, it’s basically only about players deciding who’s gonna win.
1) If people want BG to win -> no team up, let their coverage rules, BG wins
2) If people want JQ to win -> team up, trade wins to push BG down, and we all know TC can’t beat JQ so JQ wins
3) If people want TC to win -> team up, trade wins to push BG down, then maybe if JQ is that philanthropic, they would like TC winIt seems… ridiculous to me. I’m not talking about whether it’s fair or not fair. I’m talking about whether this makes sense to make the design that people can pretty much decide who’s gonna win. It makes the whole fights seem pointless.
And it’s not just about tier 1, pretty much any tier can do this if they will it.
Keep in mind, JQ and TC have equal coverage to BG. They beat BG for two months on end. They had full queues when they lost week 1. This is not a matter of two lower coverage servers trying to make up the difference. This is the top two ranked servers heading into seasons agreeing not to fight each other and trading wins. A couple guild leaders just threw a fit when BG won their first match in ages and decided to wreck wvw for everyone in T1 by win trading until there were no fights.
I think it is really ridiculous that ANet bothers to make a tournament that they do not bother to regulate. BG could have tried to make a 2v1 alliance with SoS like JQ and TC did, and further destroyed the game. Fortunately that did not happen, but for 3 weeks at least there will be jack all to do in T1.
Thank goodness for the forums, the TC and JQ trolls are the most interesting thing happening in this matchup.
Hyade and his flamethrower
(edited by BAITness.1083)
Credit where it is due – when I was talking about the idea in #1, it was actually Akk Adian’s idea. I do like how it takes care of multiple problems at once, though.
Hyade and his flamethrower
The only reason 2 servers have a reason to team up against the 3rd server is because they cannot beat them due to the overwhelming coverage. Obviously it works to their benefit to keep the 3rd server down.
If a server doesn’t want to get teamed up against, don’t stack your server, it’s as simple as that. While I was on BG after Season 1 and throughout most of the off season, at least 7 guilds transferred there while I was there and 1 left. 7 different blackouts called. I left with about 3 weeks left before Season 2 started and I’m sure more guilds must have transferred there during that time.
I can tell you for sure, TC didn’t have at least 7 guilds transfer, and I’m almost positive JQ didn’t have 7 guilds transfer to them. Who had better coverage before all the transferring went on? Well easy answer, BG did, so they in fact, stacked their server.. now the fruits of their labour, a coordinated 2vs1.. brought it on themselves.
Anet also pointed out that the 3 way system was in place to in fact keep the stronger server in check, so it’s completely working as intended, it’s just that other servers don’t do it.
Everybody would like a nice even competitive battle, but unfortunately, some people/servers take it upon themselves to completely try to swing the odds in their favor… tsk tsk.
List the guilds you think BG got.
BG has a net loss of guilds since S1. People insisting BG bought guilds are the trolls trying to justify the win trading. TC and JQ have equal coverage to BG, and you can see them beating up on BG for months leading up to the tournament.
Hyade and his flamethrower
BG has the best coverage out of all servers on NA. I’ve been saying this months ago even when they were intentionally tanking to recruit more guilds. You want squash any momentum BG has from the start, but by 2v1ing JQ, TC has essentially made BG stronger.
Hey look, a whole lot of nothing with no evidence. For those of us that actually like to live in the real world of data, take a look at the Millenium WvW Matchups. If you look at the weeks and months prior to the tournament, BG did not do well. For the first week of the tournament prior to the alliance, it was a close matchup. (35k difference)
The problem was that this swiss tournament punished the 3rd place team so much that JQ/TC panicked and formed an alliance so neither would get 4th. The end result is that NA gold league is very boring with little fighting on all fronts.
Do not worry about jojo, he is a BG obsessed troll.
The BG TC and JQ matchups have the potential to be really really good, but a few very dedicated people are doing everything they can to wreck that. I doubt the players on JQ and TC will let the guild leaders that threw them under the bus continue this win trading and force t1 into an empty wasteland. There is fun to be had in spite of the tournament and in spite of these people trying to control the rest of their servers.
For the tournament discussions above, I think that only rewarding the first place team in a matchup would definitely promote focusing on the person in first place, which is desirable. I think it would still be vulnerable to win trading, though, as there is nothing really to stop that other than ANet intervention (which would require them caring about WvW… yeah that seems unlikely). I definitely prefer the “no more tournaments” idea, myself.
I feel like the main draw of the tournaments must be the rewards, both the achievement points and the tickets. I think that what both of those things point to is a serious lack of achievement points or rewards from playing WvW. That is what needs a serious revamp. Throw away the tournament system and let WvW be something people can enjoy again, rather than a nine week endurance race.
Edit: For the OP, I think it is almost working as intended. Right now, on EB there is usually a focus on the team with SM, as defending SM makes them stretch to defend the rest of their map. That helps to keep the scores tight and balanced. On the borderlands, the focus is usually on the “home” server as they have an easier time defending their keep/towers. That also helps to keep the scores tight and balanced.
I think when ANet (and all the players clamoring for three way pvp) envisioned this system, the idea was that as servers pushed to first place, they would naturally be focused and brought into check by the other two servers, which would put another server into first, who would get focused, repeat. If that happened, the scores would always stay tight enough for the matches to be interesting. ANet needs to give some real incentives to first place outside of seasons though, for that to work.
As the game goes right now, when there is not a tournament a lot of servers do not make dedicated pushes for first because they feel they have more fun just getting into large scale fights away from objectives. I think ANet would prefer those large scale fights to be about the objectives.
There are also very rarely positioning changes in a matchup. Who is on first at midday saturday usually stays there, same for second and third. I think ANet would prefer all those scores to stay tight enough that positioning changes many times. To do that, not only would they have to give more incentives for people to play for first place, but also do something to bring the third place server back up and into the mix score-wise.
I saw a user named Akkadian post a great idea on how to do that, but it would at the very least require some big UI changes. He proposed that fights take place over 3 tiers, involving 9 servers. The green server in t1 would be teamed up with the red server in t2 and the blue server in t3. The blue server in t1 would be teamed up with green in t2 and red in t3. The red server in t1 would be teamed up with blue in t2 and green in t3.
They are not all fighting on the same maps, mind you, the only real “teaming up” is from their scores. The servers still only fight in their tiers, but the winner at the end of the week is the team with the highest score. This allows every match to matter, every server to have a chance at first, and every server push to have an impact.
Once again not my idea, I can’t take credit, but I think it is a good one.
Hyade and his flamethrower
(edited by BAITness.1083)
Does it actually happen? I mean as far as see, ranger are just good at killing a bunch of uplvl…
So my question, Have you ever been victim of a ranger that fought you 1vsX?
I once played with an excellent ranger who also commanded on his ranger. I can’t recall any time I was on the receiving end of a pro rangers pain, though. Most guilds I have been in do not let people run ranger unless they have no other class. The ranger class needs help.
Hyade and his flamethrower
Yeah… I made the math, and if Gold was actually running by the regular standarts, SoS would finish 2nd (lol wut?).
I guess JQ/TC doing 2v1 on BG have another excuse to continue, more than sheer hatred…
Well, from my standpoint, there isn’t any BG hated at all – both JQ and BG are tons of fun to fight.
NA Gold, with the political intrigue going on, is pretty interesting to follow and be a part of (for me anyway). Who knows how it will all play out.
thx bro we luv you too <3
I think the only “hatred” comes from BG’s former SoR rivals that are on other servers now. It was intense and it will take a bit to die down, but it is just a tribute to how awesome the WvW was between those two servers.
Also, in light of all the examples given above, I really think the only thing to do if two servers finish in one place is to consider it a tie for that spot and give both the reward. It seems like the only surefire way to not screw anybody over (more than they already have been by the tournament).
Hyade and his flamethrower
The behavior of the top-3 servers during their matchups this season, especially the reactions of those accustomed to winning, are really the final proof of what fight-based players have been trying to tell ppters for the past year or more. The score is not a meaningful competitive metric. It is not indicative of how well you play. It is not indicative of how well your guild plays. It is not indicative of how well your server plays.
This idea threatens the ego of certain players who conceptualize weekly victory as an accomplishment. Hopefully losing through no fault of their own will open their eyes.
It is interesting you put it that way, considering the top two ranked servers going into league teamed up on the third server after the third won their first match in over 2 months.
Fighting for PPT is not about winning at all costs, but more like playing the objective. If you go into a BF4 map you can sit in the back and snipe people as they respawn on a point. It may be fun but it is not playing the objective. Same in GW2, to me at least.
Hyade and his flamethrower
Reading this makes me think some people use “2v1” and “focus” interchangeably.
I use them as follows:
When you have no agreement in place but you hit one server more than the other, that is focusing (reminds me of having to focus down the adds in a boss fight). When you team up with a server to be friendly with one another and only hit the third server, that is a 2v1.
To use the words my way, it seems like like people are saying they have a problem with the 2v1, as focusing is how it is intended to work.
Hyade and his flamethrower
Most commanders I know take care of this by finishing downed state players off as a priority. If you do not leave the enemy in down state long, they are not likely to rally. I know it is not always that simple, but I do see some commanders charge after the players still alive and let the downed rally up.
In smaller things than that there is even more reason to focus on the downed players. I think it is hilarious if I am fighting with someone and they go down and get back up because they kill a mob. I try to be wary but sometimes I get stomp-happy and don’t notice them finishing off the poor moa as I try to get my wurm finisher off.
Hyade and his flamethrower
Ah, well, NA gold league has 6 server, so that might be a problem, since you had 2 servers with 3 points, but they had to be put in different tiers.
Yanno, let me apologize for the snarky comments. This whole tournament has been frustrating for NA Gold, and that’s ANet’s poor choice, not yours.
Sorry for pointing my frustration your way.
That was really nice bro
Also agree with your frustrations with the tournament.
Hyade and his flamethrower
Best thread NA. OP makes excellent points, and explains them well.
Hyade and his flamethrower
yet its frustrating and Anet should do something about this issue.
Yes its frustrating and of course they should be and probably are doing something about it.
A valid point is already valid without the need to sensationalise as many posters seem to do, hence the “reality check” tone of my post.
I am not sure you achieved the tone you were going for. I got more of a “screw you worthless players, hackers are great don’t fix it ANet” vibe.
Hyade and his flamethrower
In season 1 I lost the majority of my guild and many friends. Many came back to GW2 after a few months, but this thing is not healthy. It is basically taking a several week long period and saying “if you are playing for fun, not for points, you are hurting your servermates.” That really stinks.
Season one also surely had much to do with the collapse of the previously strong and organized SoR server. They were dealing with a lot of other things as well, but it seems to me they would have recovered had their problems not been happening during the season.
This season in tier 1 we have a complete joke of a competition that I have seen all sides complain about – and one of the chief reasons I have seen given for this happening is the functionality of the tournament forcing drastic measures to be taken by the servers that experienced an early loss (not my reasoning but it certainly makes sense). There have been days of complete boredom by all three servers, because actual good fights are counter productive to the strategy being implemented here.
Lower in the gold league we see Dragonbrand being given 9 weeks of absolute terrible matchups, because they did not tank their rating like they could have before the tournament started.
In the silver league we see population disparities that make me question what, if any logic was put into grouping up these servers.
At this point in the game I think WvW needs a complete overhaul, as what has been done with it so far is not nearly enough. We need new maps, new objectives, new rewards, new mechanics.
But mainly we need ANet to never make a godkitten wvw tournament again.
With the mega servers taking away a chunk of each server’s identity (for a good cause, I think), we need WvW solutions now. Whether it is guild alliances in place of servers, server score combinations (not forced mergers, Akkadian wrote a phenomenal idea about how to do this the other day, adding a red, blue, and green servers points over 3 tiers), or something else, WvW needs a change.
Right now it is a gametype that many people take very seriously, that seems to be completely misunderstood by the developers managing it. One side of this system has to fall, whether it be the players starting to view it as a complete joke, or the developers starting to put some serious resources into improving it.
TLDR: WvW tournaments bring out the worst, never do it again ANet.
Hyade and his flamethrower
I do not think they have said. If I were them I would go by the server with the most first place finishes. I think that makes the most sense.
That or hell give both servers the reward for that place, it is not exactly a large difference.
Hyade and his flamethrower
And knock it off.
You and the trolls from TC and JQ
BAITness when you have others servers telling you to stop embarrassing yourself it’s time to take stock.
Please stop posting, your not making your server look better.
The WvW Community has spoken.
Had I known you were the WvW community and not an old SoR player I would have tried harder to impress you.
Hyade and his flamethrower
(edited by BAITness.1083)
Really though, I think the point he is trying to make is that he doesn’t see the difference between cheating by win trading and cheating by hacking. If players all started hacking as a response to their rigging matches though, I do have to say that sounds even worse to me.
Really? You don’t see a difference? Like how Anet explicitly condones 2v1’ing stronger servers but bans people who exploit into towers? The slope is quite slippery on BG.
As for “win trading”, this happened last season in Silver with YB and EBay. Not only did YB and EBay double team SBI, YB let EBay hold onto its assets last minute and ended up putting SBI in third, eventually depriving SBI of a second place finish in Silver. They did the same thing to BP a week later.
Not only was Anet perfectly fine with this, but players in general applauded YB and EBay for the coordination. Sure, there were a few bitter players on SBI/BP, but no one QQ’d so much that the entire front page of this forum is effectively flooded by their tears.
I’ll let you in on a secret. WvW isn’t fair. Players from every other server have realized this long ago, and BG bandwagoners are just realizing it now. Playing for rewards is meaningless, both for the victor and loser. Have you ever considered playing WvW for fun or for the community? Like engaging in epic battles or roaming with your friends? There’s more to the game than a couple of weapon skins…
Reread it before trolling it.
The first part, about hacking being equivalent to 2v1’ing/win trading, is addressed to him. The second part, about rewards being meaningless, is addressed to you. Who cares if JQ/TC trade wins? That’s part of 2v1’ing, and Anet has already explicitly said they condoned it. They condoned it last season with YB/EBay, and they’ll condone it this season with JQ/TC.
While I was aware that ANet is on board with 2v1s I was not aware YB and EBay had traded wins last season. I agree with you about rewards being meaningless, I edited that into my prior post. It simply says that I don’t think any of the servers involved in this are concerned about weapon skins. I do think that for some reason those 50 extra tickets are enticing enough for the leaders of these servers to organize the match rigging. Maybe they missed out on mini doly from season 1. He is pretty kitten tbh, maybe they just love doly so much they decided to screw the tournament to guarantee getting that sweet sweet doly.
Edit for the person above me, regarding both the players getting swept into it, and what ANet would do:
I guess it is important for BG to remember that the win trading happens because of only a few people. I am sure there are plenty of people that are just there to play, as it is seasons.
As for what ANet would do: I can’t imagine anything they could do that would work, but the worst would be a complete lack of response. The only thing WvW players have received since EotM is this tournament. The tournament is being rigged. To look the other way is not cool. It is the weekend though, I bet we will see something said soon. I bet it will be “match discussion not allowed.”
Which is odd since that is all WvW is. It is like having a boss subforum and saying “boss fight discussion not allowed.” What do they want us to talk about, how pretty the badges are? Yeah the topics were endlessly trolled just as bad as these ones are being trolled now, but this alternative of no discussions isn’t working.
Hyade and his flamethrower
(edited by BAITness.1083)
So you are back, once again trying to spew that even though I showed you both servers fighting, it doesn’t count, because you said so.
Its already been quite comprehensively explained why they don’t refute anything. It seems de nial aint just a river in egypt.
So, for clarity’s sake.
You are saying the videos of SoR and BG attacking and taking each others objectives don’t count, because JQ lost. You are saying that SoR and BG had an alliance to work with each other in spite of their fighting with each other.
Because that really doesn’t sound like a 2v1 agreement to me. That really sounds like the servers just fought and kept fighting.
Hyade and his flamethrower
Really though, I think the point he is trying to make is that he doesn’t see the difference between cheating by win trading and cheating by hacking. If players all started hacking as a response to their rigging matches though, I do have to say that sounds even worse to me.
Really? You don’t see a difference? Like how Anet explicitly condones 2v1’ing stronger servers but bans people who exploit into towers? The slope is quite slippery on BG.
As for “win trading”, this happened last season in Silver with YB and EBay. Not only did YB and EBay double team SBI, YB let EBay hold onto its assets last minute and ended up putting SBI in third, eventually depriving SBI of a second place finish in Silver. They did the same thing to BP a week later.
Not only was Anet perfectly fine with this, but players in general applauded YB and EBay for the coordination. Sure, there were a few bitter players on SBI/BP, but no one QQ’d so much that the entire front page of this forum is effectively flooded by their tears.
I’ll let you in on a secret. WvW isn’t fair. Players from every other server have realized this long ago, and BG bandwagoners are just realizing it now. Playing for rewards is meaningless, both for the victor and loser. Have you ever considered playing WvW for fun or for the community? Like engaging in epic battles or roaming with your friends? There’s more to the game than a couple of weapon skins…
Reread it before trolling it.
Edit: and for your other point, the weapon skins are given out to the top 5 servers and gold league only has 6. We weren’t thinking about skins, I don’t think anybody involved in this on either side was thinking about the skins. The win trading to fix the tournament has us downright peeved, though.
Hyade and his flamethrower
(edited by BAITness.1083)
My name is Hyade as you can see in my signature and I am in the last video. I am having a hard time taking you seriously at this point though, as you are asking me to suspend my experience of fighting SoR all out, because a troll said it didn’t happen and then disappeared.
What me? I don’t spend every minute of the day on these forums. Your claims have already been refuted, the 2v1 on JQ happened until JQ was out of it just like the 2v1 last week happened until BG got what it wanted. The fact that it didn’t last the whole match doesn’t mean it wasn’t an organised 2v1.
So you are back, once again trying to spew that even though I showed you both servers fighting, it doesn’t count, because you said so. I think we both know how absurd that claim is. But I do admire your dedication to sticking with the lie after it blew up in your face.
Hyade and his flamethrower
I’m not going to get into the whole debate about whether 2v1 is right or wrong, but my personal feeling is that ANet is not going to outright block it from happening.
WvW is supposed to be war, and the Spring Tourney is war with an objective; to reach #1. When confronted with a foe that one cannot defeat by yourself, it only makes sense to ally with someone else to bring them down. Hence, the JQ/TC alliance to defeat BG. (For the strategy fans, this is exactly like the Wu/Shu alliance against Wei in the Three Kingdoms games by Koei.)
As the tournament rolls on, expect strategic goals to change. Maybe BG gets beaten so badly it can no longer be in the top 3, allowing SoS to sneak in. Then TC/JQ will gang up on them so they can be in 1st/2nd. And when it comes down to the final weeks, maybe the alliance gets broken as both servers jockey for the top spot. And who knows? Maybe if BG or SoS play their cards right, they could still snatch a top 3 finishing spot.
As a player, I readily admit I’d find a 2v1 quite frustrating when I’m a foot soldier on the ground, but if you step back and look at it all from a wider perspective, the political and strategic manoeuvrings going on is actually quite fascinating and entertaining to observe.
If BG managed to do that with JQ and TC attempting to rig the entire tournament, I would be pleased. On the regards of it being fascinating, the most interesting part to me is that this is literally entire servers. There is a lot of organization required in pulling something like this off, especially something that a lot of their players will be averse to. But there they stand. I would think even such a determined organization would fall at various times to the “red=dead” mentality, it seems nearly impossible to maintain. But once again, there they stand. Never tell them the odds!
Hyade and his flamethrower
Not exactly true…The fact I/We have chosen not to cheat is because there’s such a thing as Honor. The pathetic troll attempts….the sickening lack of scruples….the bogus attempts to justify cheating… they are what they are…but make no mistake about it….If I choose to exploit/cheat…There will be NOTHING that can save the Borderlands & EBG.
Whole zergs will be strolling unopposed into places you thought were secure by means that will illicit hacking cries from now until you grow up.
At a certain point my respect for the constituency/the engine/the format, and Fighting with honor will be out the window. I reserve the right to cheat in kind by whatever means that pleases me at the time.
You can run your mouth…you can spew nonsense…you can ACT like you’re suddenly talented. There are people that work for anet that know what’s possible for a very very few of us to make happen.Whether or not I choose to release a fraps showing what’s possible is going to depend on what kind of discipline is handed down later today.
Send this entire post to Devon cuz I kid you not when i say…as ugly & unfair as this weekends shenanigans have turned out to be…wvw is going to be 100x uglier if there isn’t a penaty for tc/jq’s collusion. If not…everyone across all servers will be in every keep/tower/spawn across all 4 maps and you’ll be patching an absolute kitten ton of exploits.TL/DR: “Since we can’t beat these guys 2v1’ing us, I’ll teach everyone to glitch and hack stuff, so arena net have to work double/triple”
Friend… There are so much problems in wvw, that I wouldn’t be surprised if people actually doesn’t give a kitten about the exploits you want to teach everyone… You’ll just ruin your own game doing that, and you know it. Is really winning THAT important?
Ruin what game? He isn’t playing, TC and JQ are standing there, the most interesting thing happening is seeing what the trolls make up on the forum.
Really though, I think the point he is trying to make is that he doesn’t see the difference between cheating by win trading and cheating by hacking. If players all started hacking as a response to their rigging matches though, I do have to say that sounds even worse to me.
Hyade and his flamethrower
Sir or madame, I don’t have to give a lick of “proof” – that burden is entirely on you. Your first post in this thread was talking about how commanders NOT on your server were doing such and such for such and such reasons.
Proof please.
What I’ve given you is what I’ve seen (having been there in the chat when a representative purporting to be from BG was INITIATING the buying process, which you claim never happened. I was there, and didn’t see you, but BG never did that. Interesting.
I’ve given you a perspective from servers that somehow have to continue to play, tearless, when they are hopelessly outmatched because of population imbalances (as you are right now), often as a result of either BG buying, or the knockoff effect of other servers doing the same thing as they copy what the #1 server did to get to be on the top.
Let me offer you another bit of perspective – IF it turns out that Blackgate implodes after the season as a result of this (and don’t scoff it off – others have), and you choose to continue to play after that, which of the two choices available to you will you pick?
Will you bandwagon to another server that you think will place high the next time there is a season, possibly hoping to capitalize on “I was on Blackgate when it was still great”?
Or will you ride the ruin of it down to the bronze tiers, and learn how to defend your entire map with five people against a zerg of 40+ and roamers taking back the occasional camp you manage to capture?
You may want to consider that if there is enough ill will towards BG, the 2v1ing may not stop with the season. You may just find yourselves being pushed downward week after week after week.
I know that you’re still at the point where you can’t imagine tier three servers being able to even touch you, but even if the 2v1 doesn’t work that week, there’s always the next one. And the next.
Good luck with that ticket to ANet.
Wait I am sorry, are JQ and TC denying these things now? I thought they were still bragging about it.
The burden of proof isn’t on me if they are admitting it. I can link you earlier posts in pretty much any topic right now – it is flooded with them bragging about it. If you are really going to feign ignorance to that level (god I hope you are feigning) I will link them for you when I wake up.
But no, the burden of proof is on you, telling me things are happening. You tell me you see people initiating the buying process. I challenge you to do simple math. Calculate how much gold it would cost to move a 60 person guild. You are telling me that BG not only afforded moving multiple guilds over, but managed to pay them for their time as well. But you can’t even name the guilds? Surely we bought a lot. You have lots of names to pick from. Right?
What would be the point of naming and shaming again? You BG apologists would simply try to white-wash as you do with everything. And you say your competition is dishonest. HA!
I really do not get the difficulty in being able to name these purchased guilds. You would think it would be common knowledge.
Something seems fishy.
Fishy? Not really, but dense? Absolutely.
I like to think nobody is dense enough to believe there is a bunch of secret guilds out there that only TC and JQ know about but everyone refuses to name.
Hyade and his flamethrower
Sir or madame, I don’t have to give a lick of “proof” – that burden is entirely on you. Your first post in this thread was talking about how commanders NOT on your server were doing such and such for such and such reasons.
Proof please.
What I’ve given you is what I’ve seen (having been there in the chat when a representative purporting to be from BG was INITIATING the buying process, which you claim never happened. I was there, and didn’t see you, but BG never did that. Interesting.
I’ve given you a perspective from servers that somehow have to continue to play, tearless, when they are hopelessly outmatched because of population imbalances (as you are right now), often as a result of either BG buying, or the knockoff effect of other servers doing the same thing as they copy what the #1 server did to get to be on the top.
Let me offer you another bit of perspective – IF it turns out that Blackgate implodes after the season as a result of this (and don’t scoff it off – others have), and you choose to continue to play after that, which of the two choices available to you will you pick?
Will you bandwagon to another server that you think will place high the next time there is a season, possibly hoping to capitalize on “I was on Blackgate when it was still great”?
Or will you ride the ruin of it down to the bronze tiers, and learn how to defend your entire map with five people against a zerg of 40+ and roamers taking back the occasional camp you manage to capture?
You may want to consider that if there is enough ill will towards BG, the 2v1ing may not stop with the season. You may just find yourselves being pushed downward week after week after week.
I know that you’re still at the point where you can’t imagine tier three servers being able to even touch you, but even if the 2v1 doesn’t work that week, there’s always the next one. And the next.
Good luck with that ticket to ANet.
Wait I am sorry, are JQ and TC denying these things now? I thought they were still bragging about it.
The burden of proof isn’t on me if they are admitting it. I can link you earlier posts in pretty much any topic right now – it is flooded with them bragging about it. If you are really going to feign ignorance to that level (god I hope you are feigning) I will link them for you when I wake up.
But no, the burden of proof is on you, telling me things are happening. You tell me you see people initiating the buying process. I challenge you to do simple math. Calculate how much gold it would cost to move a 60 person guild. You are telling me that BG not only afforded moving multiple guilds over, but managed to pay them for their time as well. But you can’t even name the guilds? Surely we bought a lot. You have lots of names to pick from. Right?
What would be the point of naming and shaming again? You BG apologists would simply try to white-wash as you do with everything. And you say your competition is dishonest. HA!
I really do not get the difficulty in being able to name these purchased guilds. You would think it would be common knowledge.
Something seems fishy.
Hyade and his flamethrower
Sir or madame, I don’t have to give a lick of “proof” – that burden is entirely on you. Your first post in this thread was talking about how commanders NOT on your server were doing such and such for such and such reasons.
Proof please.
What I’ve given you is what I’ve seen (having been there in the chat when a representative purporting to be from BG was INITIATING the buying process, which you claim never happened. I was there, and didn’t see you, but BG never did that. Interesting.
I’ve given you a perspective from servers that somehow have to continue to play, tearless, when they are hopelessly outmatched because of population imbalances (as you are right now), often as a result of either BG buying, or the knockoff effect of other servers doing the same thing as they copy what the #1 server did to get to be on the top.
Let me offer you another bit of perspective – IF it turns out that Blackgate implodes after the season as a result of this (and don’t scoff it off – others have), and you choose to continue to play after that, which of the two choices available to you will you pick?
Will you bandwagon to another server that you think will place high the next time there is a season, possibly hoping to capitalize on “I was on Blackgate when it was still great”?
Or will you ride the ruin of it down to the bronze tiers, and learn how to defend your entire map with five people against a zerg of 40+ and roamers taking back the occasional camp you manage to capture?
You may want to consider that if there is enough ill will towards BG, the 2v1ing may not stop with the season. You may just find yourselves being pushed downward week after week after week.
I know that you’re still at the point where you can’t imagine tier three servers being able to even touch you, but even if the 2v1 doesn’t work that week, there’s always the next one. And the next.
Good luck with that ticket to ANet.
Wait I am sorry, are JQ and TC denying these things now? I thought they were still bragging about it.
The burden of proof isn’t on me if they are admitting it. I can link you earlier posts in pretty much any topic right now – it is flooded with them bragging about it. If you are really going to feign ignorance to that level (god I hope you are feigning) I will link them for you when I wake up.
But no, the burden of proof is on you, telling me things are happening. You tell me you see people initiating the buying process. I challenge you to do simple math. Calculate how much gold it would cost to move a 60 person guild. You are telling me that BG not only afforded moving multiple guilds over, but managed to pay them for their time as well. But you can’t even name the guilds? Surely we bought a lot. You have lots of names to pick from. Right?
Hyade and his flamethrower
Another good indicator is the trolls above you trying their best to say that pictures and video aren’t proof. The one fail troll seems to be trying to imply that I faked the videos despite them being dated on upload. The other one is trying to say that when one server is attacked by two servers, it is the exact same as two servers attacking only that server and making an agreement between each other to let each server have a win every other week, without any actual contest happening.
I have already explained the reason for the 2v1 against JQ that week and the approximate length of it in one of my earlier posts. The 2v1 was to ensure JQ finish 3rd place and that was accomplished during the first half the week.
Since you mentioned dates of your videos, I decided to look them up. The one on twitch says it’s on DAY 7. The other 2 videos are dated on 10/23/13 which is on a WEDNESDAY. The dates on YOUR VIDEOS BACK UP MY DESCRIPTION OF WHAT HAPPENED THAT WEEK.
Seriously, I don’t think you actually played Week 1 of Season 1. Before I discuss anything with you further about week 1 of season 1 when BG planned the 2v1 against JQ, I need proof that you actually played that week. Without proof you played that week, anything you say, I am just going to consider as trolling or made up nonsense.
Also I am in one of the videos! I am the handsome charr.
That is not proof. I could say I’m the chubby asura in the video. I need solid proof you actually participated that week because you know nothing of what happened that week.
My name is Hyade as you can see in my signature and I am in the last video. I am having a hard time taking you seriously at this point though, as you are asking me to suspend my experience of fighting SoR all out, because a troll said it didn’t happen and then disappeared.
Hyade and his flamethrower
But of course I am applying my own interpretation to CoC, it is all I can do. I think win trading to guarantee first and second does sound like a really safe bet for manipulating the rankings of a ladder though.
ANet’s interpretation > your interpretation.
When ANet suspends JQ and TC’s wins, feel free to quote this back at me and I’ll admit you were right about violations to the CoC.
I read the PvP section of the CoC as very clearly talking about SPvP, not world versus world. I’m totally comfortable with being told I’m wrong by an ANet representative.
Of course ANet’s interpretation is the one that matters. Just like you said. Until they say something though, all I can do is speculate. Right now I speculate that rules against PvP match manipulation mean you can’t organize a 2v1 and trade wins to secure first and second place in a wvw tournament.
If that interpretation is wrong though, then WvW has a much bigger problem than my being bummed I didn’t get it right.
Stretching PvP to cover WvWvW is exactly that – a stretch.
Honestly, I know it sucks. I know that looking forward and knowing that this will happen to you for the rest of these matches sucks.
If and until ANet decides to intercede, there’s nothing you can do about it. And they won’t, and they shouldn’t.
Hopefully when it’s all over you guys will be able to redefine yourselves as a server such that people will be interested in what Blackgate does, rather than just being sardonically amused that the most obviously prolific of match manipulators has had their ego bruised.
When season two is over, there will be the analysis threads and people will post their views. You should post then. You should also read the other posts.
Especially the ones that aren’t commiserating with you. And before you say “unfair” in regards to how you are collectively being treated, just for kicks try to work out what the collective you have done to evoke that from others.
And knock it off.
That is just it. BG didn’t do anything. You and the trolls from TC and JQ are trying to justify 2v1 win trading match fixing scheme to give yourselves first and second. You and those like you come here and accuse BG of being some scumbag of a server. But you never bring any proof.
The only proof there is, is JQ and TC giving the middle finger to ANet and their tournament, fixing matches and trading wins at the expense of the other four servers in the league so they can get 50 extra tickets they won’t spend until next season.
All that because JQ and TC didn’t finish in first place, for the first time in over two months.
I’m not getting first or second. Check the tagline, dude. I’m also not trolling you.
Match fixing – if you’re going to call people taking paper keeps off of each other match fixing, then I’m going to call buying people and guilds from other servers in anticipation of a wvw season match fixing, since it is a) calculated to give your server an advantage it wouldn’t otherwise have during the matches and b) detrimental to the servers you entice players away from.
BG did plenty, but it doesn’t even have to answer for it. Partly as a result of enmity it’s generated by very selfish actions against the community as a whole, it is now experiencing… what it is experiencing.
The only thing unique to Blackgate’s current situation is, it’s going to trend downward. Those of us on other servers are used to a certain amount of up and down, but BG has been sitting up top for so long that it’s bought into it’s own myth and blithely brushed over its own history of callous disregard for the effects its actions have had on others.
It’s clear you’re unwilling to accept this, or unable to imagine a GW2 where Blackgate isn’t on top. But here you are. What are you going to do about it?
You continue to make claims without providing proof. Show me the guilds BG bought. Surely they bought a lot in season 2, since they were getting their butts kicked leading up to it. Can you at least show me one so I can ask them about their harrowing experience?
Also, this is another person saying that BG could never handle losing when it is literally all that BG has done for months. It is much more so that JQ and TC can’t handle losing literally one match.
I am not kidding. That was the first match BG won in 10 weeks.
All this crap about BG deserving what it is getting is the two servers spreading their BS to justify their cheating. If you are starting to buy into the negative things they are saying, I challenge you to prove them for these trolls. They are not willing to, but you might be.
Hyade and his flamethrower
Another good indicator is the trolls above you trying their best to say that pictures and video aren’t proof. The one fail troll seems to be trying to imply that I faked the videos despite them being dated on upload. The other one is trying to say that when one server is attacked by two servers, it is the exact same as two servers attacking only that server and making an agreement between each other to let each server have a win every other week, without any actual contest happening.
I have already explained the reason for the 2v1 against JQ that week and the approximate length of it in one of my earlier posts. The 2v1 was to ensure JQ finish 3rd place and that was accomplished during the first half the week.
Since you mentioned dates of your videos, I decided to look them up. The one on twitch says it’s on DAY 7. The other 2 videos are dated on 10/23/13 which is on a WEDNESDAY. The dates on YOUR VIDEOS BACK UP MY DESCRIPTION OF WHAT HAPPENED THAT WEEK.
Seriously, I don’t think you actually played Week 1 of Season 1. Before I discuss anything with you further about week 1 of season 1 when BG planned the 2v1 against JQ, I need proof that you actually played that week. Without proof you played that week, anything you say, I am just going to consider as trolling or made up nonsense.
Wait are you saying that a 2v1 changes every single day of the matchup? That is not really a 2v1 at all then is it? That seems kind of like hitting whoever shows up? Also I am in one of the videos! I am the handsome charr.
Once again, anybody stretching the truth to try and say BG and SoR could stomach an alliance between each other needs to pick an easier target to lie about.
Also, tell the other guy that I didn’t just make the videos up. I don’t know how he thinks I pulled that off, but he thinks very highly of me.
Hyade and his flamethrower
OK. Here we go.
You think win trading is not OK. Take it up to Anet. Escalate it. Make things happen.
Can’t? It’s happening. You can’t do anything about it. Deal with it, or cry and amuse all the other 23 servers.
#BGTears
I would love to spend time crying but I am spending too much time correcting the TC and JQ propaganda machines that are trying to get people to believe they aren’t the first scumbags to do this.
Because you aren’t part of the propaganda machine trying to shake accusations off your own server?
The motivations are inconsequential. Whether we are the first to do it isn’t even the problem, the problem is if an organized 2v1 is inherently wrong or against what is acceptable in WvW. If you want it to be, go do something about it. Until Anet speaks up about what is or isn’t allowed, everyone who tries to paint any server on the moral high ground and condemn other servers has no basis whatsoever.
Yes, this includes accusations of BG stacking, or spying, or whatever. There’s nothing inherently wrong with any of those, just like there’s nothing inherently wrong about 2 servers teaming up. But when you only select one of those things and single out TC and JQ for your condemnation, then you are clearly a hypocrite.
There is nothing wrong with a 2v1 either.
There is an awful lot wrong with fixing matches to trade wins so you can guarantee first and second place.
Says you and…who else exactly? Why should anyone accept your judgement of what is right or wrong?
There is essentially no difference between a 2v1 and “match manipulation”, especially when the 2v1 is carried out against the strongest server. Why would the 2 even team up if they cannot do better than if they did not? The 2v1 is EXACTLY to ensure that the colluding servers do better than they would if they did not collude. The only thing that changes is scale – you can 2v1 in an open field fight, you can 2v1 a fortified objective to break it, you can 2v1 a server for a week, or you can 2v1 an entire server for a whole season. Who decides where the line is drawn for what is acceptable or not? If there isn’t a line, what makes some of those 2v1s acceptable while others not?
The fact that you have to go this far to justify it should be a good indicator. I am not sure I have heard anybody try to justify win trading before in any context.
Another good indicator is the trolls above you trying their best to say that pictures and video aren’t proof. The one fail troll seems to be trying to imply that I faked the videos despite them being dated on upload. The other one is trying to say that when one server is attacked by two servers, it is the exact same as two servers attacking only that server and making an agreement between each other to let each server have a win every other week, without any actual contest happening.
But you say I am the one judging it is wrong. Really, it is more so the guilty parties trying to make it sound like it is not as awful as it is. The two top ranked servers going into season 2 were worried they wouldn’t finish first and second, so after losing one match they teamed up to fix matches, trading wins every other week without fighting to guarantee their top finish.
I mean kitten . It speaks for itself.
OK. It speaks for itself. TC and JQ are guilty, BG are the victims and have always been. We’re bullying BG now because we’re terrible, terrible people. Here is the key question:
What can you do about it.
N O T H I N G
other than cry
Like I said, I would have a lot more time for crying on the forums if you guys would stop lying on the forums. I mean crap I could have like 10 topics by now if I wasn’t so preoccupied with the trolls trying to fling bs. I even started an outline between replies:
Topic: Sad
points: super sad, want to have good wvw fights but don’t want to give doubleteamers something to do, eotm fights suck srsly wtf
conclusion: sosad
I was thinking I could expand it but I keep getting distracted.
Hyade and his flamethrower
“The two top ranked servers going into season 2 "
It’s like you actually believe BG didn’t tank in advance to squeeze in guilds.
Chunky you are going to need to very carefully explain how losing a match squeezes in guilds, let alone losing multiple months of matches on end.
Or tell me the guilds that got squeezed in, I will ask them how it helped them.
Hyade and his flamethrower
OK. Here we go.
You think win trading is not OK. Take it up to Anet. Escalate it. Make things happen.
Can’t? It’s happening. You can’t do anything about it. Deal with it, or cry and amuse all the other 23 servers.
#BGTears
I would love to spend time crying but I am spending too much time correcting the TC and JQ propaganda machines that are trying to get people to believe they aren’t the first scumbags to do this.
Because you aren’t part of the propaganda machine trying to shake accusations off your own server?
The motivations are inconsequential. Whether we are the first to do it isn’t even the problem, the problem is if an organized 2v1 is inherently wrong or against what is acceptable in WvW. If you want it to be, go do something about it. Until Anet speaks up about what is or isn’t allowed, everyone who tries to paint any server on the moral high ground and condemn other servers has no basis whatsoever.
Yes, this includes accusations of BG stacking, or spying, or whatever. There’s nothing inherently wrong with any of those, just like there’s nothing inherently wrong about 2 servers teaming up. But when you only select one of those things and single out TC and JQ for your condemnation, then you are clearly a hypocrite.
There is nothing wrong with a 2v1 either.
There is an awful lot wrong with fixing matches to trade wins so you can guarantee first and second place.
Says you and…who else exactly? Why should anyone accept your judgement of what is right or wrong?
There is essentially no difference between a 2v1 and “match manipulation”, especially when the 2v1 is carried out against the strongest server. Why would the 2 even team up if they cannot do better than if they did not? The 2v1 is EXACTLY to ensure that the colluding servers do better than they would if they did not collude. The only thing that changes is scale – you can 2v1 in an open field fight, you can 2v1 a fortified objective to break it, you can 2v1 a server for a week, or you can 2v1 an entire server for a whole season. Who decides where the line is drawn for what is acceptable or not? If there isn’t a line, what makes some of those 2v1s acceptable while others not?
The fact that you have to go this far to justify it should be a good indicator. I am not sure I have heard anybody try to justify win trading before in any context.
Another good indicator is the trolls above you trying their best to say that pictures and video aren’t proof. The one fail troll seems to be trying to imply that I faked the videos despite them being dated on upload. The other one is trying to say that when one server is attacked by two servers, it is the exact same as two servers attacking only that server and making an agreement between each other to let each server have a win every other week, without any actual contest happening.
But you say I am the one judging it is wrong. Really, it is more so the guilty parties trying to make it sound like it is not as awful as it is. The two top ranked servers going into season 2 were worried they wouldn’t finish first and second, so after losing one match they teamed up to fix matches, trading wins every other week without fighting to guarantee their top finish.
I mean kitten . It speaks for itself.
Hyade and his flamethrower
OK. Here we go.
You think win trading is not OK. Take it up to Anet. Escalate it. Make things happen.
Can’t? It’s happening. You can’t do anything about it. Deal with it, or cry and amuse all the other 23 servers.
#BGTears
I would love to spend time crying but I am spending too much time correcting the TC and JQ propaganda machines that are trying to get people to believe they aren’t the first scumbags to do this.
Because you aren’t part of the propaganda machine trying to shake accusations off your own server?
The motivations are inconsequential. Whether we are the first to do it isn’t even the problem, the problem is if an organized 2v1 is inherently wrong or against what is acceptable in WvW. If you want it to be, go do something about it. Until Anet speaks up about what is or isn’t allowed, everyone who tries to paint any server on the moral high ground and condemn other servers has no basis whatsoever.
Yes, this includes accusations of BG stacking, or spying, or whatever. There’s nothing inherently wrong with any of those, just like there’s nothing inherently wrong about 2 servers teaming up. But when you only select one of those things and single out TC and JQ for your condemnation, then you are clearly a hypocrite.
There is nothing wrong with a 2v1 either.
There is an awful lot wrong with fixing matches to trade wins so you can guarantee first and second place.
Hyade and his flamethrower
LOL a SoX member from SoR at the time just said it happened. That isn’t proof cause you said it isn’t. Man BG at a new low really.
2v1 is 2v1 doesn’t matter how it is done. It can be a soft 2v1, a hard 2v1. It is a 2v1. You from BG are denying that you 2v1 ANY server at all. JQ and TC has never said anywhere they don’t 2v1. Yet BG tries to say they don’t 2v1. What a joke. So say BG hits TC WPed (on JQ BL) bay S gate and JQ hits TC bay N gate. That isn’t 2v1 on TC bay? How about if JQ seeing BG has more numbers let them do the work inner while they take out TC reinforcements. That isn’t 2v1. It isn’t 2v1 if BG + SoR hit Garri in JQ BL constantly on both sides cause they “fight” each other.
There is a lot of 2v1 and if you think it doesn’t happen for even a short period of time you aren’t a core WvW player. I would seriously recommend that you consider a lower tier server to transfer to meet your needs.
Let me ask who actually believes what you say is true except other people from BG? BG is the underdog. Who believes that? BG never 2v1. Who believes that? BG never recruits people. Who believes that? BG doesn’t do paid transfer even at say 50% or something. Who believes that? BG has a low chance to win S2 before the 2v1. Who believes that? BG has been a weak server compared to other T1 servers after S1. Who believes that? lol
Look at you, you are literally trying to redefine what a 2v1 is to make it sound like win trading is ok. By your definition, you think any time a server plays wvw they are engaging in a 2v1. So why don’t we only call it what it really is – win trading.
Two servers teaming up to give each other first place every other week. Not fighting each other for that top spot.
Also, yeah he said SoR and BG were allied, I said they weren’t, then I provided pictures and videos proving that BG and SoR fought both each other and JQ throughout the tournament.
You need to quit the trolling game dude.
such a bad troll lol. Your proof is Mos. Ok how about this, JQ + TC aren’t 2v1ing BG. BG just suck so they aren’t showing up. Proof is Mos. Score difference don’t matter it just shows BG ain’t playing the game. Anything happening on map or politics don’t matter. Since it didn’t matter for BG + SoR in S1.
2v1 is 2v1. So if someone GvG I can go 30v20 cause that really isn’t 30v20 it is 20v20. I mean if two servers hit 1 objective owned by a third server it isn’t 2v1. It is just a 1v1 it just happens 3 servers are all in the same place. Oh all them SMC fights it is just a 1v1 and another server is watching. Also when people roam as a 5 man and kill one person. That aint 5v1 it is 1v1 since we are on the same server and such. What a joke. 2v1 is 2v1 regardless of what it does.
Oh btw JQ and TC fight each other in open field for fun. We just don’t take each other objectives. It is like BG + SoR. Hence no 2v1. BG, SoR, JQ matchup only happened twice. W1 and last week when SoR imploded. So how did BG and SoR fight each other through out the tournament when all 3 servers were in the same matchup? By the time the last week of the tournament started the Season was already decided so what is the point of an alliance. And how did the alliance work of BG + SoR if JQ wasn’t matched with either for most of the tournament. #bglogic
My proof is actually the photos and videos I provided above which include multiple instances of BG and SoR attacking and successfully taking each others objectives.
Dude. Even I am embarrassed for you at this point. I am going to assume you just didn’t look at any of those links, and that even though none of them link to mos, that you misread every single one of them. Or maybe you looked at them but thought nobody else would.
But at this point dude, you really need to pick something else. I am sure there are tons of matches you can lie about BG organizing a 2v1 on, but you are really honest to goodness trying to say that BG and SoR were allies.
Hyade and his flamethrower
OK. Here we go.
You think win trading is not OK. Take it up to Anet. Escalate it. Make things happen.
Can’t? It’s happening. You can’t do anything about it. Deal with it, or cry and amuse all the other 23 servers.
#BGTears
I would love to spend time crying but I am spending too much time correcting the TC and JQ propaganda machines that are trying to get people to believe they aren’t the first scumbags to do this.
Hyade and his flamethrower
But of course I am applying my own interpretation to CoC, it is all I can do. I think win trading to guarantee first and second does sound like a really safe bet for manipulating the rankings of a ladder though.
ANet’s interpretation > your interpretation.
When ANet suspends JQ and TC’s wins, feel free to quote this back at me and I’ll admit you were right about violations to the CoC.
I read the PvP section of the CoC as very clearly talking about SPvP, not world versus world. I’m totally comfortable with being told I’m wrong by an ANet representative.
Of course ANet’s interpretation is the one that matters. Just like you said. Until they say something though, all I can do is speculate. Right now I speculate that rules against PvP match manipulation mean you can’t organize a 2v1 and trade wins to secure first and second place in a wvw tournament.
If that interpretation is wrong though, then WvW has a much bigger problem than my being bummed I didn’t get it right.
Stretching PvP to cover WvWvW is exactly that – a stretch.
Honestly, I know it sucks. I know that looking forward and knowing that this will happen to you for the rest of these matches sucks.
If and until ANet decides to intercede, there’s nothing you can do about it. And they won’t, and they shouldn’t.
Hopefully when it’s all over you guys will be able to redefine yourselves as a server such that people will be interested in what Blackgate does, rather than just being sardonically amused that the most obviously prolific of match manipulators has had their ego bruised.
When season two is over, there will be the analysis threads and people will post their views. You should post then. You should also read the other posts.
Especially the ones that aren’t commiserating with you. And before you say “unfair” in regards to how you are collectively being treated, just for kicks try to work out what the collective you have done to evoke that from others.
And knock it off.
That is just it. BG didn’t do anything. You and the trolls from TC and JQ are trying to justify 2v1 win trading match fixing scheme to give yourselves first and second. You and those like you come here and accuse BG of being some scumbag of a server. But you never bring any proof.
The only proof there is, is JQ and TC giving the middle finger to ANet and their tournament, fixing matches and trading wins at the expense of the other four servers in the league so they can get 50 extra tickets they won’t spend until next season.
Oh yeah so on ready up they were showing WvW clips and saying how BG is getting 2v1. I don’t see them saying anything bad about that. So trolls dominate WvW in TC and JQ. Why don’t you do the math and tell me how JQ and TC and prevent SoS from getting free 2nd considering W1 and W2 results. BG: 10, JQ: 6, TC: 6, SoS: 6. I’ll help you out too. At the current rate SoS gets easy match W9 with a win of 5 points and JQ or TC will rotate at 6 points for 8 weeks unless BG is 3rd. I would love to know a good start.
Other servers get 2v1 how many threads do they make? A server has more coverage than another server how many threads do they make? BG gets 2v1 how many threads do they make per day? 10+. You tell me how people think of BG.
No other servers have conspired to trade wins to rig a tournament before. All it took to make the leaders on these two servers give up on the game and cheat their way to first and second was a handful of 50 tickets.
Fifty tickets that they will save until season three, because it isn’t going to get them anything extra this time.
Hyade and his flamethrower
LOL a SoX member from SoR at the time just said it happened. That isn’t proof cause you said it isn’t. Man BG at a new low really.
2v1 is 2v1 doesn’t matter how it is done. It can be a soft 2v1, a hard 2v1. It is a 2v1. You from BG are denying that you 2v1 ANY server at all. JQ and TC has never said anywhere they don’t 2v1. Yet BG tries to say they don’t 2v1. What a joke. So say BG hits TC WPed (on JQ BL) bay S gate and JQ hits TC bay N gate. That isn’t 2v1 on TC bay? How about if JQ seeing BG has more numbers let them do the work inner while they take out TC reinforcements. That isn’t 2v1. It isn’t 2v1 if BG + SoR hit Garri in JQ BL constantly on both sides cause they “fight” each other.
There is a lot of 2v1 and if you think it doesn’t happen for even a short period of time you aren’t a core WvW player. I would seriously recommend that you consider a lower tier server to transfer to meet your needs.
Let me ask who actually believes what you say is true except other people from BG? BG is the underdog. Who believes that? BG never 2v1. Who believes that? BG never recruits people. Who believes that? BG doesn’t do paid transfer even at say 50% or something. Who believes that? BG has a low chance to win S2 before the 2v1. Who believes that? BG has been a weak server compared to other T1 servers after S1. Who believes that? lol
Look at you, you are literally trying to redefine what a 2v1 is to make it sound like win trading is ok. By your definition, you think any time a server plays wvw they are engaging in a 2v1. So why don’t we only call it what it really is – win trading.
Two servers teaming up to give each other first place every other week. Not fighting each other for that top spot.
Also, yeah he said SoR and BG were allied, I said they weren’t, then I provided pictures and videos proving that BG and SoR fought both each other and JQ throughout the tournament.
You need to quit the trolling game dude.
Hyade and his flamethrower