Guild Wars 2

huh, I never imagined a D/D build without Earth

I spvp as alchemist and only use the elixer gun.

Caffynated.5713:

Bard.7215:

I’m not new to the class but to save time scathering through the forums as to why, I’m going to pretend like I’m new in this thread.

So is arcane required for any spec because It’s just too good to pass up or is it because the class can not function without?

I run a bunker 30 eath/ 30 water/ 10 arcane specilization that I like and I’m not sure why anyone would say it was bad because it wasn’t 30 arcane.

Thank you

Arcana is + boon duration and faster attunement cooldown. Boons and attunement swapping are the lifeblood of the class, so arcana is logically your most important line.

I don’t think 30 is mandatory, but 10 is with 20 being the flexible middle ground.

You’re not going to gimp yourself by shorting arcana, but you need to be aware of what you’re missing out on and plan the rest of your build accordingly.

Ah, Ok.

Thanks.

I’ve been using 4 kits since the beginning

All the Gadgets suck and torrents are so situational you just change to them when you feel the need.

Since Nadespammers were all the jazz since I started an engi, I did Med/Nades/flamethrower/Bomb

No

But I will answer your tree question now that I actually read your question

Every level you get one trait point

You have five trait trees that each focus on different abilities

In most cases you can tell the intended purpose of the tree by it’s trait stats it gives, which are listed on the far left (this isn’t always the case in some classes).

Each level you put points into the tree which will add to your bonus stats (Which aren’t really that important due to future gear so don’t stress about them, the triatglyphs matter the most) In stages of five you will unlock a traitglyph.

The small ones give you an important but unchangeable buff and the big ones give you a list of buffs

Each tier (Series of 10 point in a tree) will unlock one small glyph and one big one, and the further you go the more big glyphs you unlock.

When you’re not in combat you can select from any big glyph (If you have 30 you can pick from any glyph listed when you click it.

This way your choices have lots of customization that can be changed.

In elementalist terms, I’m not to keen on the air traitline but I know that despite the stats making it look like a single target crit chance based specialization, It’s actually more of a movement and speed based one, though I’m likely wrong.

Flame blast doesn’t bother me so much but the skill requirement to use it effectively is almost insulting compared to that of other classes.

The reason it pierces is because the intended purpose of the ability is to hit a target at a specific range to deal bonus damage. It would work if the pierce had high damage and the explosion dealed powerful damage as a reward for the engineers skills at estimation. You can tell the design by the blowout ability. It seems they want engineers to torch the enemy with a few auto attacks, then knock them back complete with a fiery ball of death that will hit them with a bang on their way back. the blast was the reward for using the ability after repelling a target when they got to close or you were finished torching them with your midranged auto and wanted to finish them off.

The problem is the pierce does crap damage and the explosion does average damage, making it’s use as a reasonable damage skill pointless.

I don’t think it should be redesigned so that it merely aoes upon hitting a target like the ele staff skill, but that the pierce damage should be greatly increased and the blast damage add burning or other conditions as a reward, maybe a short cripple.

I’m not new to the class but to save time scathering through the forums as to why, I’m going to pretend like I’m new in this thread.

So is arcane required for any spec because It’s just too good to pass up or is it because the class can not function without?

I run a bunker 30 eath/ 30 water/ 10 arcane specilization that I like and I’m not sure why anyone would say it was bad because it wasn’t 30 arcane.

Thank you

Not to degrade the topic even further into an elemental thread on an engineer forum, but how far in arcane is generally required at this point? Last time I played my ele was a very bunker d/d rig with 30 earth 30 water and 10 arcane and I had very little issues with attune swap, which is apparently the main reason for going deep arcane.

I’m not joking, go to the elementalist forums and look up threads dated before the current series of patches and you will see threads pertaining to the same exact level of of upsetness as engineers currently face.

Arguments between Lrn 2 Attune players and Arcane Elitest who beg Arena to make 90% of the arcane buffs standard to the elementalist(and change the tree) because Arcane is a build required to play anything(according to them). Similar pains of trait maximizing(Like our Nades requirement) in bunker specs for PVP due to the Rice Paper Canon effect of the class as well as pretty much valid summaries of how Fire and Lighting Traitline need a redesign due to lack of focus on any particular damage type or damage itself. In fact I evens saw a new thread arguing d/d isn’t OP and it’s all they have in which it’s nerf would send them down to the Ranger and Necro level that’s just above us.

Given two patches have past and things were probobally buffed, I see that something changed in ele’s that made them far more viable for PVE and PVP but I have to see what it is.

I assure you though, even if you’re right and they are a very good class at the moment, only a few months ago they were worse off then the nade engi.

Sons of Svanir are allowed in Hoelbrek, or at least the outskirts of the city. This means that despite Jormag hate, the Norn still respect their rights of worship and only attack if the Sons start attacking or converting.

so Elementalists are no longer the worst class? Again I ironically quit leveling mine for my engineer after realizing they can’t do pvp without a bunker and all these other bad things about the class that were ranted about in the forums. Did they get uber buffed? I thought the fire and lighting tree were still poorly designed and that they need focus on arcane just to function?(Last time I played)

Right. They’re considered misguided. We can assume that since the Norn live in a sort of “do what you want outside of meadhalls” kind of society, fighting amongst each other isn’t considered a direct impending threat that the norn need to unify against. Norn likely understand Jormags corruption is bad and try to stop it, but It still seems they allow the Sons to hold on to their territory and don’t attack unless attacked first. It’s like they’re stuck between hating Jormag but respecting the Sons “right” to act like kitten. Norn are all about life and freedom, specifically personal freedom, so it’s obvious there’s some morale code or law that makes it unfavorable to unite against or subject another norns beliefs, even if they’re fundamentally bad. This doesn’t mean the norn can’t go in and kill the Sons because the sons are attacking, but I don’t think the norn feel it’s morally just to wage war or persecution against them.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

If Guild Wars was a horror game, then not being able to kill Zhaitan might work. But as a science fantasy game as it is, that just leaves disappointment in a lot of players. You’re clearly not the kind who would be disappointed – tbh, neither would I be, but you can’t please everyone and it’s clear that ArenaNet wanted an actual victory in the end.

Then again, while we’re told Zhaitan is dead, who’s to say that he isn’t just inactive while his body reforms and he just simply won’t be seen in this lifetime again because of such?

As for whether Cthulhu can actually die… well, even if cut off pieces will just reform it, if you destroy those pieces then would it not thus be unable to reform? E.g., vaporization? Besides this, if you ask me, a seemingly all-powerful being who’s limited by the alignment of stars sounds pretty kitten pathetic to me, devourment of souls aside.

You can’t really vaporize something that’s immune to chemical change, He’s not made of actual matter, remember. I’d theorize that even if you ground Cthulhu up into the smallest particles (Assuming he even is composed of small individual particles like matter) that they would still reform into his base form. Lovecraft made it pretty clear that his eldrich horrors were beyond such notions of death or obliteration.

Nyx, Greek primordial of night, good choice.

Female Necro Mercel Shaw

Growl voice acting doesn’t match their theme of primitiveness at all, it’s very clean and clear sounding and doesn’t strike people as “These are ape men”.

This might be intentional though, as Growls primitiveness might not apply to every aspect of their being. Growl might lack greatly in many forms of intelligence but they might have a very high linguistic intelligence. This could explain how they retain a non-broken dialect of New Krytan (and picked it up) and why they use poetic phrases that don’t reflect their inability to comprehend advance concepts such as civilization.

The dredge are a different story.

You need to remember that historically, Dredge were once very primitive and that stereotype might have clinged to them despite advancing just as quickly in industry as the Charr.

The Dredge are an oddball due to A-nets failure to flush out and explain some the relationships between the ruling races and the Dredge, especially the dredge as a villain. It was suggested in a thread on the subject by an A-net dev that the reason the dredge aren’t taken seriously outside of the Durmand Priory is due to the Norn viewpoints of various races in their current residence at shiverpeak. The Norn a very hardy and life loving race that have a penchant for dominating races they see as weaker. While the Dredge have powerful tech, and can be assumed to be physically strong (Incredibly fast diggers even without iron digging armor), they are suggested to not be much of a threat or “challenging opponent” to the Norn. Or the Norn might be intimidated by the Dredges effort to take control of all of shiverpeak and therefore choose to insult them for their once primitive nature.

The Dredge are not really culturally evil like the Krait, their main desire to desecrate the remains of those that enslaved them and try to establish power in shiver-peaks, likely to show the world that they are the true inheritors of Dwarven civilization and to garnish respect from the currently ruling races, which I feel they deserve. Why no one has decided to attempt a peace treaty with the Dredge is beyond me, but again it might be a pride issue with the Norn among a leadership issue with the dredge. Some of the reason the dredge have been so inconsiderate of the current elder dragon situations and the boundaries of the territories claimed by other races is likely due to the fact that the leaders of the moletariat are essentially insane due to Inquest influence.

I thought most mammalian apex predators were unusually gristly and foul tasting, I guess big fatty bears would be the exception though.

I’ve heard that necro’s are suffering as badly as engi’s right now.

You can basically tell what classes have it the worst by looking at the number of negative threads on the front page.. Warriors have none.. lel.

My Engineer is 80 and I still play it without much of a problem. I don’t do a lot of instances so i’ve never experienced the whole Engi Discrimination factor people have talked about.

I do WvW and spam grenades without really looking at numbers, although my aging computer can’t take WVW and the FPs drops to around 8-15 in zergs so my usefulness is never actually estimated in dps.

I’m not amazing at pvp in general but I’ve been testing an 30 alchemy, 30 firearms and 10 tools specialization that focuses on stacking condition and dpsing with bleeds aswell as good survivability. I use elixer gun, Pistol Pistol swapping (sometimes shield) to stack conditions and use Elixer C and Elixer-b (Debating on subbing B for something else) but swap utility depending on situations and good foresight (Swap elixer S if theif closing in). The effectiveness of the build is hard to tell given that I’m not outstanding at pvp and very rarely fight alone, though I have survived 3v1 encounters and soloed people in 1v1 (Albeit it takes time due to bleed stacking). It’s a very chance based build given my victories come against condition spammers who proc my boon conversions. I play this build knowing that it’s probobally the worst thing a person could do given the “Engi’s can only grenade spam and it’s nerf means the death of the class” philosophy.

Overall I couldn’t say I was upset about the nerf until going on today and seeing all the “We’re finished, it’s over guys” threads like this.

The biggest irony about this is I stopped playing my ele because they were being called the worst class in the game, and now my Engi is (where as ele’s are doing a lot better from what I’ve heard)

Chessrook.8643:

You’re forgetting other races. Skritt, Ettins, Dredge, Grawl, Harpy, Centaur, Dwarves, Ghosts, Risen, Kodan, Krait, Largos, Ogres, Tengu…… DANG there’s a lot of sapient races…

Most of those I’d assume not be very tasty, except maybe tengu and centaur

I thought flamethrower, despite it’s burn applications, was more of a power heavy weapon.

FalconPunch.8076:

Video games are designed for men, most men like skinny girls with medium sized breasts or hourglass figures with impossible hip-waist ratios and tremendous bosoms. I am sure someone will come in here and say that they prefer a different body shape but with limited time and resources the team will design bodies that they think are most attractive to their player base.

Yes, it is kittened up and yes it is unfair to real women to have those expectations placed on them. Do I feel disgusted with myself for finding both of those physiques attractive? Not really. It is difficult to change the wiring of perceived attractiveness when we are bombarded with digitally enhanced perfection 24 7 and both those body types cater to men biologically.

I doubt this game is out there to subvert the patriarchal subjugation of the female body or appease the feminist critique on body image. Their modelers are probably more interested in designing hats or sunglasses for sale, just saying.

It’s not really that unfair since women have their own biological set standard of attractiveness in men, This is sometimes overlooked in media criticism because most men don’t get bothered by a handsome chiseled lad who’s physically fit(with a nice buttox, as girls have told me), Unless the character has a grapefruit sized bulge in his pants or displays over the top sexually suggestive behavior (Voldo from the Soul Caliber series). In fact most male players seeking to design a male character are naturally drawn to these traits as they’re viewed as heroic and strong rather than view them as a sexist standard of beauty. The reasons for this can be debated but it could have something to do with men having a completely different competitive complex then women. I’m sure if some female game devs created a game where male characters are shown to have outrageous “in bed” standards you’d start getting some pretty angry male players saying the game is sexist.

phlemhacker.1372:

I have said it once, I’ll say it again. What the game shows is normal. Everyone nowadays is just fat. There is supposedly a lot of pressure on modern women to be skinny. Clearly there is not enough pressure, because in the United States, the majority of women (and men for that matter) are overweight. There is a massive difference between slender women and women who are genuinely unhealthy. Tbh though, I am also a little drunk. the morning will tell more.

I blame our food and endless distractions. Even I’m gaining weight…

Teabaker.9524:

I agree that most humans (both gender) are just fat nowdays. However, I don’t think that having a perfect hourglass figure and huge d-cup boobies are possible. I mean, I don’t think that girls are “normally” like my thief -> http://i.imgur.com/oHiqc.png

Human anatomy has done some weird things in history, I for one have monkey arms that are too long for my height (Though this isn’t really that uncommon). And I assure you that Hourglass figure and above d-cup combined do exist (genetically, not a result of icky plastic). Of course this is uncommon as are the epitome of all the traits we desire in a potential spouse, because if they were common then we’d have even greater standards, as rarity breeds value.

Enough about real things though and more about the ingame anatomy

I feel that every race should have a slider option.

The problem with Aion’s system is that the sliders had a very poor scaling limit. They likely applied this so the most perverted amongst gamers (they who cannot play a game without sexual imagery) could have F-cup and above bossomonsters, as is common in K-rpgs. Despite this, the scales could make other things un-porportionally large, specifically the head. Making bobble-head abominations was much in Aion but obviously placed some fears into A-net regarding realism.

The phobia is unjustified however, as scale systems can be tweaked for accuracy. Limits can be set and even more limits can be set based off other slider, such as being unable to scale your eyes past a certain size based on other proportions on the face and so forth.

Slider can be tweaked and constrained to only produce body types that are visually acceptable and do not disrupt the game. So all the fears of Bobbleheads and CAPTAIN GIANT LEGS! have no real grounds for not adding a slider system.

If you obtain might after burning the target, does the buff apply to all dots already placed on the target before the buff? or does it increase the damage on next application?

Lord Aargadon.4135:

Not really sure, but we have to trait and gear into our desired role if you want to do it right and effectively, while sacrificing the ability to do anything else, where as other proffesions don’t need to sacrifice all their traits and gear in order to do one thing effectively. Our damage is subpar, might stacking is supbar, combo fields are subpar, we are often stealthnerfed, we suffer from potentially fatal RNG skills, many important skills and traits are bugged causing unintentional affects or simply don’t work, we lose wep atributes from using kits, and so on.. so to say we are the worst is maybe the truth, maybe not. Necro’s have it pretty bad, but I’ve never rolled a ranger so I can’t tell you about that…

When I rolled an Engi I did so after learning and actually discovering in game the ele’s were supposedly the worst class in the game. Now it’s true that most of this games classes are worse off then the plate wearers who are brought up in every comparison but after playing these classes it’s easy to understand why. They’re very straightforward and almost mindless in direction and therefore easy to balance.

I’ve never felt significantly weak on my engi, but then again I haven’t ran too many instances and I spvp with unorthodox trait lines (30 arms 30 alch 10 tools) which is difficult to determine in efficiency.

This thread is hilarious, but it’s also making me sad.

Are we really the worst class in the game, even worse than Rangers?

Greiger.7092:

Aren’t hylek extremely poisonous?

Only the poison glands on their back are.

I’ve actually gotten pretty good at not missing with the flamethrower, All it take is right clicking and pretending you’re in an TPS. That aside it still needs to be fixed.

Stats on weapons would be nice, but I don’t constantly worry about it, especially sense being a DPS perfectionist is unhealthy in a game where 90% of the classes can’t compete with warrior dps.

WoW used a phasing system partially for this reason and as a gimmick for their cataclysm expansion to show off that events and actions could premimentally alter terrian (Though it came with a load of problems)

I used instance as a technically term, as games like WoW had most of their world maps on a single instance(or zone). Guild Wars divides their territories into separate instances and implemented an overflow to cater to the high stress of it’s gameplay and to allow people with weaker computers to play with less lag.

Because GW2 has such a flexible group system that can allow players from different servers to run instances together it wouldn’t be that hard to implement a system to return to or party with players in a the old “zone” of which you have unlocked a “post event” version of. due to the level scale system such a thing would be quite easy to implement.

Some of this issues of cannonity could be easily solved with a phasing system or a before or after territory

Of course this generally splices the games population, who can’t see or play with players who are playing in a version of territory that differs depending on the completion of a quest or not.

Given that the games territories are instanced, the “Open world factor” is already suppressed, so the notion that they could just create canon versions of each territory before and after an event doesn’t bother me, as long as they include options to enter older instances before entering an instance portal.

Defeat Zhiatian? Orr changes a bit, some other territories change aswell? you’d be playing in a canon version of a territory with players who have also completed the same thing.

Sadly, this would take a lot of resourced because it would essentially double the size of the game by adding future instanced versions of new territories, probobally at the cost of an entire expansion that could have been used developing new places.

Also, This thread is confusing considering there is no OP and it basically looks like a lot of the thread was deleted. Whats going on here?

The prophesies and craziness in lovecraft works are supposed to be taken as true, It’s not supposed to be taken as “They’re just big aliens who want you to believe their deathless space gods”, that’s truly what they are. You’ve gotta remember that reality in the lovecraft universe is just a dream by Azathoth and that the Old ones are kind of alien to the dream (I need to go back to confirm this). We have no physical means of destroying them, we can"only make ripples in the water that is them" if you get my metaphor.

the only thing your actions do is temporary change their physical structure(blow them up), you can’t stop it from returning to it’s standard with anything in the physical realm.

You also have no way of knowing the star position required for his body to sustain activity.

The elder dragons are similar in a sort of supremely powered elemental force way but they aren’t really bound to the same set of rules as the old ones, they can be dismembered and destroyed.

It’s simple, Abbadon somehow gimped Orrian magic so they were useless when the charr came.

Perhaps the Cataclysm was caste earlier within those 12 hours then we are lead to believe, sucking the magic from the area in process which led to a helpless defeat?

Regardless, a sudden loss of magic would explain how easily the charr were able to defeat them, specifically as a people who likely couldn’t imagine life without it.

I also go with the notion that the searing cauldrons require some charge time and can’t just instantly be spammed, It could be that the charr were in the process of ransacking the city while the cauldrons were being set up to level it, given that the charr seem to be into annihilating entire structures. However the cataclysm occurred before they were fully functional.

Cthulhu wasn’t “Defeated” by the boat, they were just lucky that the stars came out of alignment while his head was reforming. The boat popping his head open was like someone blowing air in your face, it was of no consequence

Understand that Cthulhu and the other old ones are composed of something like matter but isn’t truly our universal standard of matter. It’s suggested that every piece of an old one is and always will be under any physical change.. the old one. Meaning every tendril you slice of Cthulhu is still a part of him and will simply just merge back, exerting physical change such as cutting or blowing him up is of no consequence less of temporarily stalling his pseudo-physical body from crushing you, which isn’t necessary sense he could simply make your head pop like a cork.

Also Azathoth is only scary if he wakes up (Reality disappears), the old ones are a bit more menacing then the Outergods since they’re a bit more personal.

Quaggen or Hylek.

Most of the playable races can be assumed to taste bad.

Humans taste bad likely due to their use of medicine and diets, one of the reasons why humans taste bad in real life(according to sharks and cannibals).

The same could be said about Asura given their pill popping and deeply processed food, in addition to not being very meaty.

Charr could be somewhat edible. A little known fact about Charles Darwin is that he was a member of a small club of culinary explorers who practiced eating unusual species and rare delicacies. Having eaten puma steak, he described it as having the flavor of lamb but very gristly. I’d imagine char having this sort of consistency but less tasty due to their exposure to industrial chemicals and ash.

Norn would probobally taste like human, but toughen the flesh a bit.

Sylvari could taste bad or good, they’re plants with plant parts mimicking animal metabolic processes, their entire biology is un-comparable to anything real.

Now Hylek are basically frog men, seem to have a free ranged diet of insects or anything else they can swallow and seem mostly natural. Also, since they’re frogs we can imagine they taste like frogs. Which means they taste like chicken.

Quaggen are an odd little “Fishmammel” sort of species who’d probobally taste like a fusion of fish and whale flesh. I for one have never eaten whale because it’s meat is pretty much illegal in most places but from what I’ve learned from Japanese anime it’s pretty good.

Overall.. I’d say Hylek would be the tastiest, maybe skelks too.

The problem with the weak story with Zhatian is pretty much seen in most beginning MMO’s.

Generally these games haven’t had enough time to elaborate and establish themselves, so multiplots and characterization of the world around your character is more focuses on then the big bad. It was the same thing with WoW, and they didn’t truly have a well done big bad until the third expansion due to totally messing up the villainy/anti-heroism of Illidan(Who despite promotion was barley a threat in the expansion) and not having a truly established villain in Vanilla WoW.

A-net did something impressive by trying to flush out a game to go to greater lengths then others in it’s beginning, a difficult feat. By comparison to the beginning of other games, this is impressive. So you can’t expect them to have such an excellent grasp on Themeing and plot progression so early on, especially when they have no idea how the gamers will react to it (players forget that their power of hindsight does not to apply to the artists in work, who have very little idea whether or not their work may be seen as bad). Once the waters have been tested and they understand exactly what players want, the story and plot line should improve.(Unless the writers and artists have an ego issue, such as the issue in WoW in which they originally wouldn’t allow armor transmutation because obviously their Armor designer was offended)

Basically let the game grow a bit, and maybe one day you’ll get your Lichking like villian

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Off the top of my head, no. But I’m fairly sure that dryders – like a vast majority of D&D lore – originates from an older mythos, even if not the exact same name or identity. Most Tolkien and D&D fantasy originates from norse mythos (incuding, yes, dark elves – though in the original Norse mythology, dark elf and dwarf are one and the same), so my bet would be there.

You’re right about the heavy mythology influence in D&D as… Eh it’s mostly common knowledge among the great “nerd circle”.

While Drow are heavily inspired by the Norse mythology(While the name is an old Scottish dialect pronunciation of the the word Trow, or Troll). The Driders, as far as I can tell (Holding claims of originality with a grain of salt) are an original to the DND universe. The name Drider is obviously a combination of the words Drow and Spider.. which essentially is what they are.. Centaur like creatures. Drow from the waist up, spider from the waist down.

That aside, the spelling and the presented form of the Dryder are unique enough to avoid lawsuits. Besides, Wizards only gets mad when people copycat their Beholders or Mind Flayers which are generally renamed and changed up a bit into something stupid like Observer or Floating Eye to avoid threats(you know what I’m talking about). I’ve noticed that it only really occurs around these two creatures, as other Iconic DND beasties have been copy pasted into franchises with the same appearance and name, such as the Owlbear, without so much as a redesign or rename for years.

RenoMiranda.2685:

WarriorOfAsgard.3705:

I’ve only seen one screen shot of the scepter and it’s hard to be certain. This is a flattened texture of the globe pulled from the .dat file.

I have heard in different forums that that is not a complete map of Tyria because it was “too small” for a world. In one forum it actually said that if Tyria was a planet, it would not even be as big as our moon.

Even in games that presents an area in a realistic setting, most open world games do not take the actual in game territory range as being canon. I don’t even think the TES:Series does this. Limits of technology(and game development time/human psyche) do not allow massive realistically sized territories, nor would it be practical to do so. So when making a game with an inter cat story, it’s generally best to act like you’re crafting a segment of a massive territory that would fully express what this territory is about, without having to comprehend and produce a massive to the point environment. I’m pretty sure the almost cubic mountain ranges that box in most of the territories aren’t supposed to be taken literally either.

Because every class from the perspective of a player ever class outside of their class is better unless they’re a warrior or guardian or they’re comparing themselves to an elementalist. Remember that people post of forums when they’re unhappy, which can stem from as much as a 1% damage difference between a rival class that supposedly lost them a fight in WVW.

The Engineer is not the worst class in the game, but it isn’t top tier, which too some people is nerve rackingly horrible and the bane of their usefulness. This is pointless, as from what I’ve read on this forums, 80% of the classes in this game fail compared to 20%. With such a statistic you should be far from bothered, as we know not everyone in competitive pvp roles a warrior or guardian.

By norn governmental bodies I’m thinking of Knut Whitebear. Lodgemaster seems to be a very high status of power in Norn society, I would also assume Shamans and havruns have diplomatic say.

I just don’t think that “Everyone is a Dwarf sympathizer!” excuse would cut it for such an intelligent race. They aren’t like kraite who are born sadistic and cruel and aren’t manipulated by insane prophets. The Dredge just seem like they want everyone to take them seriously, as their main goal seems to be completely eradicating dwarves from history and re-establishing themselves as their successor. The territory dispute thing doesn’t make sense as most of shiverpeak was never Norn land in the first place. Sometimes I feel that I’m the bad guy when I go in and slaughter a bunch of Dredgi who probobally had justification for being in said tunnel system.

Edit: Most of SOUTHERN Shiverpeaks.

My question about the Dredge is why the Norn are at war with them. While the Durmand Priory is under attack for preserving dwarf culture and even housing a stone dwarf in their ranks, there isn’t any reason why the Norn governmental bodies couldn’t have purposed a treaty. It’s not like the Dredge are forcing their communist beliefs on other races.

Now given that some Norn are using dwarf ruins as living spaces, perhaps the conflict begins there, Otherwise I’m not really seeing a good reason for the player to go in and slay a buch of molerat men.

Well dimalit, the notion that they are plants, not mammals is completely moot at this point. Sylvari have a lot of things plants don’t have, such as eyes, vocal cords, lungs, ect.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/e/e9/Salvation_page.jpg

my face when they have no face

You can’t change weapons in battle, Unless you’re trying to Weapon Swap? Ele’s can’t weapon swap because it doesn’t work with the attune system, despite the people claiming the class is underpowered BECAUSE they can’t weapon swap.

Yes the blue weapons on the bottom right corner are your aquatics.

If you for some reason can’t equip weapons outside of battle then I’m not sure why.

Every class has a million glitches other than the divine creation that is the Warrior class. We’ve got a long waiting list…

I was mistaken, there were two concept arts depicting nude murasaat, the other one giving a better view of their “faces”. while they clearly have some sort of eyes or eye indents, they don’t really have much else.

I think elixer gun does Ok with a pistol condition build Zorgor, Switching too it doesn’t mess up bleed stacking.

That was an ice elemental? I thought It was just a big Tumor of Jormag Ice. I haven’t explored all of Dredgehaunt.. now I’m disappointed.

No! Konig! you’re ruining the fan service by questioning the biology!

While Sylvari might not have nipples because the males do not and some hinting through concept art, the reasoning that they don’t have them because no mammary glans would be the same reasoning to a conclusion that sylvari had no genitalia because they can’t reproduce. However we know for a fact that they do have ahem, have “Stamin” and “Pistol” which are essentially vestigial for anything but mimicking an act of reproduction.

So why not nipples? I mean they’re obviously covering something with those petal bikinis, as the general trope for nippleless yet breasted species is that they censor themselves., therefore why modest clothing, right? I don’t take men not having nipples as an indicator of anything, one too many times have I seen this in fantasy where the male race are excluded of nipples solely for atheistic reasons, I think male trolls in WoW lacked nipples.

As for Krait having mammary glans, ummm Fishmammels maybe? I mean look at quaggen, egg laying but also full of mammalian traits. Given that krait are intelligent, perhaps the adaption of mammary glans was vital for the species to transfer enough nutrients for brain development. If you noticed there are plenty of mammal like reptile species(based off real mammal like reptiles) in Tyria. The line between mammal and reptile is pretty much blurred in Guildwars.

Edit: As a side not, perhaps they’re not exactly nipples, but nipple like flowers O_O*

Promordus had a strong symbolic opening in being first, not a litteral explosion of terror for the people of the surface like Zhaitan.

the presence of the big bad is the sense of looming

It depends on the flavor ranging from first to last when considering impact.

First and foremost, I admit that my first statement was an accidental assumption on prior information that was passed around that I mistook for coming from a source that isn’t so bogged down in questioning. In fact I didn’t even know Thruln was the source of the information (Because my norn was unable to talk to the NPC when I first noticed he existed)

Notice the vagueness of “something and somewhere”, I don’t even believe I was attempting to state that the norn/Juton relationship was cannon (True to the sense that it had a higher standing than the kodan theory).

I don’t think I stated that thrulns belief about how the gods perceives humans was infallible, I was however trying point out that the facts regarding human history do not contradict his vague statements about the gods themselves. Grawl could be a relative comparison, not a literal one. The Gods that favored them are not necessarily the pantheon we have now. There is workable wiggle room in such a mystery that doesn’t negate the idea that the gods brought humans to tyria.

As for the three things that are wrong (from what I recall, you claimed it was A. Gods not knowing humans B. Humans being as primitive as growl(taken to the most litteral degree) and C. GIant Wars unleashed because of loss of magic)

If you still consider the magic loss = downfall to contradict pride/power =downfall than I urge you to re-read my speculative scenario on the situation. The degree of segregation between the two given run downs of the event is so limited it’s asinine to call them contradictions.

I know I saw a video promoting primordus. Still, even if the Zhaitain was the only one to get the spotlight in the promotions, it doesn’t take away any of the build up surrounding primordus.

Primordus awakening being relatively unknown until the subterranean races surfaced just adds to the suspense. We don’t know exactly how much he has hiding down there, We don’t even know if any stone dwarves remain in the depths. Primordus is like an active volcano with no indication of when he’s going to burst to the surface and fry us all, and that is what I love about him.

Also, he’s the fire/magma dragon, those are always saved for last :P

I understand that all dragons want to consume, that wasn’t even wroth responding to since you obviously know I understand the dragons intentions from previous conversations. My point is that Primordus is the destruction dragon like you said, the thing that’s just biding to completely eradicate us. Krakkletorriks personal vendetta with glint is a huge deterrent that is integrated with all that he’s currently done, He cut a huge line through Ascalon and stopped at the crystal desert to slap a dragon. Don’t get me wrong, that gives him a level of personality above other elder dragons…it’s just not BIG BAD material.

I reread the entire conversation; I was not using the source as an undeniable claim to base the history of the norn off of. I merely used his equally supported, if not weaker theory on the origin of the norn to that of the Kodans own claims. the Kodan being just as a “reliable” source as Thruln.

Recall that earlier in the thread you outright stated that most of Thrulns information was wrong, or at least you worded it as such to state certainty that thruln was wrong and that this level of fallibility strongly supported him as a completely uncredible source.

My intention was never to pose Thruln as infalliable, but to support the possibility that he is not wrong by revealing certain grey areas in the lore and to revoke assumption that would lead players to ignorantly perceive thruln as beyond reasonable doubt a wrong character. In other words we have widdled out this assertions to reveal the lore based grey area they exist in, the realm of possibilities. Of course in the end there was one such notion for which I am unable to find a field of fallibility in(Unless I can go through the difficult task of finding evidence within the limited lore that consists of early human/god relationships), this being thrulns belief that the gods did not care about humans (Implying they didn’t know about them) which contradicts human arrival).

Yes I have a personal biased in the idea that Juton are related to norn and a biased against the kodan theory, you’ve caught me, but my intention was to revoke the defamation of thruln as being infallibly wrong or at least a completely unreliably source based off peoples certainty/lack of knowledge on juton history. I did not ever intend to posse him as being infallible, I just oppose the notion that he is statistically “too wrong” for any possible theory regarding a Juton norn connection, which from my perspective was your attempt at the beginning of the conversation.