Guild Wars 2

I do have a question for John. Suppose the game is set up so that something drops 1% of the time. And suppose 1000 people loot the chest with the item in it. And one person gets 10 of these items, and the other 999 get nothing. Is this working as intended, or is there something wrong.

I honestly think that, if they do implement a system to reduce loser outliers, that this system only apply to prestigious stuff that has a very small chance to drop. I don’t think the game needs to track how long it’s been since we got a rare, or even an exotic. I would like them to track how long it’s been since I got a teq horde, or an aetherpath weapon, or a black lion ticket. We don’t need to put an undue burden on the game engine, tracking everything ever. However, I do think that 2.5 is the best, where you have a chance to get the item as a drop, but if you don’t, you get a token. I also agree with people that Dry Top is a good place to start.

I’ve been working in Dry Top to get all the ambrite weapons, and yes, it took a long time, but I noticed something: it felt good to have a goal that I could work towards, see improvement, and know when I’d be done. There’s an element of rng in the insect drops, but getting the recipes wasn’t. I had to grind a lot to get geodes, but I knew I was making progress. With a precursor, I don’t. It’s just waiting for a drop, or making enough gold to buy it. I don’t think that’s satisfying. I think we need a better way then RNG. I think building up ‘luck’, for lack of a better term, is a good idea. I’ve been doing teq for the past 45+ days, and I haven’t gotten a sunless weapon. A guildie did it twice, and got one. I know people have been doing it longer and not gotten a sunless weapon. How is this helpful to people? I don’t think everyone should get a sunless weapon after the second time, but I think there has to be a better way then doing the event every day, hoping that you’ll get a rare drop, only to be disappointed when you don’t. This is demoralizing, and that does NOT help the game. It only hurts it.

John Smith.4610:

wwwes.1398:

John Smith.4610:

There isn’t such thing is some accounts getting stuck lucky. Yes there’s an RNG, yes it’s random and there are streaks and outliers and an even aggregate distribution.

Can you confirm whether it is an RNG that uses some sort of value from the user’s account or whether it is purely random/session based? I have a friend who swears that smack-talking an anet dev during a beta weekend pvp match doomed his account to poor rng for life.

Absolutely it does not use anything to do with a user.

The relevant quote, for posterity.

Buttercup.5871:

Ohoni.6057:

Sorry, I just don’t believe it’s random. And if it is random, it’s broken. I don’t see how one person can “randomly” get 10 precursors, while I get 1, and I play WAY more than they do. And even if you do believe this is truly random, do you understand why this might be frustrating to the players that don’t get precursor drops?

Yeah, that’s the important bit. We can believe it’s random, or not, and argue about the laws of averages all we want. The problem is it doesn’t FEEL good to be on the receiving end of a bad luck streak. ANet should want their players to feel good, and while it might be nice to have a lucky player feel super good about getting ten precursors, it feels bad to not get any, and it would be in the best interests of keeping everyone happy if they cheated with the intention of having everyone “win” over a reasonable period of time, rather than to let random chance create long-term “losers.” “Hot Streaks” can be cooled down a bit, they’ll never notice, and “cold streaks” could use a little extra heat, which they’ll definitely notice, all to the better.

Even if the distribution of Precursors does fall into statistical averages, they shouldn’t.

I fully agree. But can we get back to the first part of his quote? Did someone actually get 10 precursors? I really hope that’s a figure of speech. My “age” is 3500+ hours and I’ve never actually seen a precursor drop. Not even once.

No, it’s not much of an exaggeration. He gets SO many precursors, the rest of the guild has as wishlist, so that when HE gets it (not them), they get first dibs at buying it. This has happened to a few guild members. He has like 5 legendaries. The bit about the moa was true too.

John Smith.4610:

There isn’t such thing is some accounts getting stuck lucky. Yes there’s an RNG, yes it’s random and there are streaks and outliers and an even aggregate distribution.

Sorry, I just don’t believe it’s random. And if it is random, it’s broken. I don’t see how one person can “randomly” get 10 precursors, while I get 1, and I play WAY more than they do. And even if you do believe this is truly random, do you understand why this might be frustrating to the players that don’t get precursor drops?

John Smith.4610:

tolunart.2095:

Leamas.5803:

The RNG acts very strangely with me and seems anything but random (Which I have reported to ANet couple times). Just can’t do it. I know people who have thrown in over 1000g worth of stuff to get nothing, while I know others who have gotten multiple pre drops with little effort from the forge.

This is the definition of “random.”

You might be referring to the clustering illusion. Wikipedia has a really cool gif:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clustering_illusion

I’m sorry, but when one guild member gets more precursors than everyone else in my guild combined, and in fact, leaves the game for 2 months, comes back, and loots a pre-cursor off a moa, while I spend those 2 months doing multiple events and get nothing, I don’t think that’s what I call a “clustering illusion”.

It is a good idea to always go to the website and send in a support ticket, if you’re truly worried. Never click on anything in an email. Go to the website, and look for the support link, and ask.

You can’t, not really. Some people try, and it causes events to fail.

The “intelligent and logical fashion” is to announce it on the website, in the patch notes, and in game.

If they made it so that you could buy 1 infinite mining pick, and use it on all your alts without using the bank, the picks would skyrocket in price to make up for it. Remember, they went up (slightly, I know) in price when they went account bound. You don’t really think they’ll stay 1k gems, do you?

Ask customer support for help?

The tickets were important to me, so I found out how to get them, and made sure I did. Sometimes, you have to put a bit of effort into knowing what to do in game.

From the Feb 18th, 2014 patch notes:

•Banker Golem (2 Weeks) will now start its countdown timer when players activate it for the first time, so it is safe to stack unused ones in inventory. This will not affect golems previously purchased or waiting in mail.

So, why is my golem banker’s countdown timer already started?

What they’re going to do is rewrite some stuff to take out the plotholes. They won’t restore the personal story.

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Becka Williams.4978:

If there’s no way to collect them outside of outrageous sums of gold, or incredibly low rng drop rate, what’s the point of having them? You might say “Well, what about the fractal collection” and I’d say “yeah, that’s just as dumb.”

Listen, if you don’t get the point of a collection, that’s fine. It wasn’t meant for you. But there are others that enjoy having it here, even if it will take a long time for them to fill out the collections.

It’s okay that the content wasn’t geared towards you. As everything else in this game, some people will like it, some people won’t.

I’m one of those people that would rather they spend time on collections that are more obtainable, and more fun (like a scavenger hunt) than just rubber stamp a “new” collection, which is really just some skins. I guess I don’t get “fun”.

Hamfast.8719:

Becka Williams.4978:

Here’s my thoughts about a low pop server: especially for Orr, this wouldn’t work. If people could guarantee they’d get to do temple events, they’d flood the low pop servers to do them. You’d also get people going to them to guarantee hits on champs for bags. So, they’re not as low population anymore, are they? Do we then ask for enforced low population servers, where the maximum amount of people allowed is 10-20?

I have no idea what the current minimums/maximums are. It quite possibly varies by zone. Those numbers are quite possibly tweaked periodically. I’m sure they would do the same under a Population Choice MegaServer.

Some of you say the MegaServer is fine RIGHT NOW. You have no problems with Zergs and “tagging” for event credit. A High Population MegaServer would be no problem for you. So why would you join a low pop server that takes more time and work to get your reward? I don’t see your scenario as a problem.

• The High Pop Servers would act much like the current MegaServer. If you like it now, go High Pop.
• The Low Pop Servers would act much like the old Server-based zones. Expect your Boss and Champ fights to garner about the same size crowds. There won’t be today’s super-huge lagfests there.
• Medium Pop would fall somewhere somewhere in-between.

If Orr is too hard for you in Low Pop, then bump yourself up. If Zergs make everything a boring, unrewarding cakewalk, drop to a lower population MegaServer.

This is all about FREEDOM OF CHOICE. How can you be against that? Everyone gets to decide what works best for themselves.

I’d kind of like the freedom to have my posts read correctly, but alas, that isn’t in the cards.

Here’s my thoughts about a low pop server: especially for Orr, this wouldn’t work. If people could guarantee they’d get to do temple events, they’d flood the low pop servers to do them. You’d also get people going to them to guarantee hits on champs for bags. So, they’re not as low population anymore, are they? Do we then ask for enforced low population servers, where the maximum amount of people allowed is 10-20?

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Becka Williams.4978:

I think the aetherpath weapons one is pointless. They go for 1k gold on the trading post, the path isn’t played much (tho this might make it more popular) and it’s 18 drops. What could they possibly give you to ever make all that work or money worthwhile?

The whole point of doing the collections is just for the sake of doing the collections. The rewards are NOT worth doing them for ANY of the collectibles. They’re merely some minor token of completion.

If you’re doing the collections just for the rewards, you’re going to be very disappointed.

If there’s no way to collect them outside of outrageous sums of gold, or incredibly low rng drop rate, what’s the point of having them? You might say “Well, what about the fractal collection” and I’d say “yeah, that’s just as dumb.”

Asmodeus.5782:

I sure’d like to have an option to try. And, if they’re too tough to solo now, to organize just enough people not to make it an idiotic autoattack lightshow. So, do you also have something against half-pop maps for people like me?

If that’s what you got from my posts, then I don’t know what to say.

I think the aetherpath weapons one is pointless. They go for 1k gold on the trading post, the path isn’t played much (tho this might make it more popular) and it’s 18 drops. What could they possibly give you to ever make all that work or money worthwhile?

Yes, you “used” to. I used to solo golem. Have you soloed it since megaservers? How do you know you still could?

AncientYs.8613:

i also had an aweful experience with this just now… i got the notification to voluntarily move to another map but i clicked no because i had bloodlust stacks at 25 and wanted to move to another map after i finshed completing it,

then after a while(forgetting about the 1 hour map countdown) i ran into 3 events in one place(metrica province defending the towers from inquest, gathering inquest golem parts and another defend the tower event) so i thought wow! 3 events at once.. i was happy that i would get alot of exp after completing them^^

but sadly.. during the middle of the first event.. i got guess what? yeah.. kicked from the map! all credit from the current event i was doing was gone! and also the 2 others i also had lost completely and had no chance of doing anymore..

it was then that i realized that this system is a bad idea.. imagine if this happened during a worldboss! =O

What’s the probability of a low population map during a world boss event? What’s the chances of you killing a world boss on a map that has the low population warning?

I do nearly 100% hotjoin, and I don’t think it deserves better rewards than structured pvp. You can quit hotjoin without penalty, you can join whenever you like. 500 points is enough. If anything, I’d maybe remove the limit on total points you can get per day in hotjoin, but it’s fine now.

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Becka Williams.4978:

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

I know a lot of vendor items have bulk orders, why not the beads? I don’t see a reason why we can’t buy them in groups of 50/100, when you know you’re going to need a lot for weapons anyway.

Possibly because, until this patch, no one bought many beads. And after everyone gets that achievement, no one will again And yes, I made all the weapons. Clicking that many times SUCKED.

And yet, you still needed 75 no matter what weapon you wanted to make. That’s still an egregious amount to have to buy even for just a single weapon.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sun_bead

Yeah, I know. How many people used beaded weapon skins?

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

I know a lot of vendor items have bulk orders, why not the beads? I don’t see a reason why we can’t buy them in groups of 50/100, when you know you’re going to need a lot for weapons anyway.

Possibly because, until this patch, no one bought many beads. And after everyone gets that achievement, no one will again And yes, I made all the weapons. Clicking that many times SUCKED.

I do kind of think not being able to use map chat will be a hindrance for new players, and might turn them off. Perhaps allow them to use map chat in the starter zones and racial cities? Yeah, that would still allow gold sellers to spam a lot, but wouldn’t completely isolate legitimate players.

Vanive.3804:

Becka Williams.4978:

They were never on sale.

sigh Ok, I never said they have are were on sale, and I know for the most part always be in the gem store at 800 gems each…what I was saying is I want anet to put them on sale this week so I can save some gems…like any thrifty consumer..most times when I buy stuff I buy during sales..how hard was that to understand? -_-

Because you said you wanted them to go on sale again. The “again” part was what made your statement hard to understand.

They were never on sale.

Rajani Isa.6294:

Yamsandjams.3267:

1. “You may not program a single key to perform multiple functions” – The inputs performed by the macro are not performing multiple (different) functions, they are performing the same function over and over again.

I know it’s moot now that a dev has chimed in, but notice the EULA/TOS doesn’t say “Multiple different actions” – merely “multiple actions” – they don’t distinguish between repetitive different and same actions.

It’s possibly not the best idea to advertise that you’re going to use a macro on the official forums if you don’t want anyone to know.

I think the exhaustion system when placing siege is probably the best way to go. Maybe 4 instead of 3. As for the people who say “you can place a lot of siege when defending a keep” that’s true. But presumably there’s a bunch of people in the keep, otherwise a: your siege won’t get built, and b: you’ll lose the keep anyways. If there’s other people, they can place siege too.

If you’re exactly the same as a low level character in a low level area, what’s the point of having levels at all?

Perhaps this is an example of not waiting too long to start something. If you had started it a week ago, like you originally said, it’d be done by now, and you wouldn’t have to worry about it being derailed. I also wonder why you didn’t think that we’d care more about whatever the feature patch introduced and less about future guild management options.

It might be because it’s parked there, and you’re being hit by diminishing returns. Try moving it to a different map. Why is it parked there, anyways? There’s a waypoint that’s like 5 seconds away.

They do kind of have to make the armors awesome. The reward track is objectively worse than the dungeons. So far, to be honest, the new pvp armors are bog standard armors that are harder to get than the dungeon ones. Why?

I was intrigued by the armors that were datamined. The ones we got aren’t nearly as good. I was going to do 4 runs. Now I might only do 1.

They eventually get kicked out anyways. You only get an hour, then anet forces the shard to shut down. At least, I think that’s what it said. I read it kind of fast.

I think the marionette could be a good boss fight, or maybe fractal end boss, but that wouldn’t work for every single living story update from season 1. That’s why I think cut-scenes are probably easier to do.

I’d actually suggest more story based instances. Like, instead of killing the marionette, you see what happened play out as a cut scene. You could probably make some of the events playable, but I think cut-scenes is probably easier, and faster.

Do you mean an axe you hold in two hands, or a axe/axe configuration? Because warriors can do axe/axe.

I don’t recommend using karma armor at this time. If you put expensive runes into it, they’re locked inside the armor forever (yeah, you could use the extractor, but that costs so much more than any rune, and is one use only). The same with WvW armor. If you want exotic, the best way is to loot it, or craft it.

What he means is, if you want to put say 20 mithril ore in your bank (not collection tab, cause that’s full) and you have 120 mithril ore in there already, the game puts the 20 ore in a new slot, rather than combining it with the 120 ore already in there.

Cross.6437:

Guhracie.3419:

You want us to go through the traits list and do something you should be doing because you can’t be bothered to go through this 43 page thread that’s been around since April? This “specific information” you’re after? It’s all here. It’s been stated and restated.

Yes. That’s exactly what he wants, because now we have a focus and a purpose.

JonPeters.5630:

Cross.6437:

JonPeters.5630:

Lazuli.2098:

ozmaniandevil.6805:

JonPeters.5630:

Thanks. I’ll pass this on.

So, this is how it works? Cherry pick ONE PERSON’s “list of things I don’t like”, while ignoring 40 pages of really good feedback and ideas? OK. I’m done with this thread.

From this response from JonPeters and his initial post it is obvious that Anet is not going to fix their new leveling process or trait system except the individual tasks themselves.

I’m discouraged since I used to like leveling new alts but can live with just playing my level 80s instead.

To be clear we are looking at the system as a whole but recognize that changing that will take longer than is satisfying and are looking for ways to improve the current system until a time at which we can make a better overall system from the ground up. Specific suggestions on what traits are poorly placed are helpful for #1, specific suggestions on #2 are also welcome but are going to be read but not responded too right now.

So, if I’m reading this right, are you saying, you’re looking for quick changes to make the system more bearable while not confirming or denying the possibility of a holistic revamp at some point in the indeterminate future?

Because knowing that would really settle some of my anxiety about the existence of this request for feedback.

Yup. and I would replace the word possibility with the word probability…

He wants to know how to make what we’ve got tolerable in the more foreseeable future, which means he needs clear and concise lists focused on a single topic in order to act more quickly and effectively.

He’s telling us what he wants so that he can work on something specific. This is how feedback is supposed to work.

We all know the current system is majorly flawed. Heck, THEY know the current system is majorly flawed, but they’re trying to do what they can in the short-term so that they have the freedom to consider the long-term.

Perhaps if they hadn’t ignored the thread for 4 months, it wouldn’t be so overwhelming large for them to read? As for “They know it’s majorly flawed” if only there was some big feature patch coming out that they could introduce changes to the trait system four months after releasing the failure of a trait system they introduced with the “sincere, singular hope of absolutely delighting you.” Here’s a tip: We’re are NOT absolutely delighted.

timmyf.1490:

I think the thing ArenaNet didn’t anticipate with this system is that players would EXPECT (yes, EXPECT, not WANT) to unlock EACH AND EVERY TRAIT RIGHT AWAY instead of unlocking them as needed for a build.

I absolutely don’t understand this desire, but it certainly seems widespread. For players who have it, their characters feel “incomplete” until they finish unlocking everything. Which is, as many have said, time-consuming and expensive.

I think the best bet would be to reduce the cost of paying for traits or to switch trait unlocks to Grandmaster only.

You mean, it’s unreasonable for us to expect to get something we had before the april 2014 feature patch?

JonPeters.5630:

Hey all,

I see a lot of people talking but with a thread this long the details are often muddied by a large number of similar but differing opinions. I want to address some of the more straightforward stuff.

Trait Tier level increase. We made this change because despite what the more hardcore players like myself want, most players need to be introduced to systems more slowly so that they don’t get lost. Every time we overwhelm new players that is an opportunity for them to stop playing the game. Every time that happens it becomes harder and harder for new players to develop into longtime players. Without more longtime players it becomes hard for you and your current guilds to meet and find people to replace those who inevitably will be pulled away by real life from time to time.

Unlocking traits. We talked about this a bunch in the horizontal progression CDI and it came to our attention that many players were not learning about traits, how they worked, or understanding the options. When we talked through unlocking traits via activities it led us in the direction we have currently. Unfortunately, unlocking traits in the open world generally causes one of the #1 things we never wanted in the game which is players in conflict. You want might the Balthazar trait but someone is about to complete the chain and leave you waiting. This is bad for the game, but I think right now only occurs this dramatically for a few of the traits.

If you all list out the most offensive ones here we would be happy to look into changes given that we have already done so in the past when we switch many of the poorly placed map complete adept tier traits among a few other changes. Here is a list of those changes:
• Profession Trait 13: This trait is now awarded upon preventing the Statue of Lyssa from being re-taken by the Risen, as well as defeating the corrupted high priestess of Lyssa.
• Precision Adept Trait 5: This trait has been moved from Bloodtide Coast map completion to the defeat of Sharky the Destroyer in Arca Lake of the Harathi Hinterlands.
• Precision Adept Trait 6: This trait has been moved from Fireheart Rise map completion, to the defeat of Captain Jayne in the Brigantine Isles of the Gendarran Fields.
• Toughness Adept Trait 6: This trait has been moved from Iron Marches map completion, to the defeat of the Giant Blood Ooze in the Challdar Gorges of the Bloodtide Coast.
• Vitality Adept Trait 5: This trait has been moved from Timberline Falls map completion, to the defeat of Gargantula, the spider broodmother in the Wynchona Woods of Harathi Hinterlands.
• Vitality Adept Trait 6: This trait has been moved from Mount Maelstrom Map Completion, to the defeat of the Krait Witch in Timberline Falls.
• Profession line Adept Trait 5: This trait has been moved from Sparkfly Fen map completion, to the defeat of the Champion Ice Wurm in Lornar’s Pass.
• Profession line Adept Trait 6: This trait has been moved from Frostgorge Sound map completion, to the defeat of Lord Ignius the Eternal of Lornar’s Pass.

At the end of the day this system has helped spread out the teaching of the system and the feeling of accomplishment through acquisition, but it has done it in ways that are sometimes counterproductive and still not nearly visible enough to impact as many players as it could.

Guild Wars 2 is a game that is going to continue to evolve and it will be because of your feedback and our efforts so do not get discouraged from posting feedback and be patient with change and I hope we will reward that patience.

TLDR;
We added this system as a direct result from the horizontal progression CDI. We are always reading your feedback, however, we don’t always have time to respond right away or action it quickly. We updated some trait unlocks in the past but we can do more. How can you help?
1) Give us a list of the most offensive trait unlock locations.
2) Keep giving feedback and be patient as this is a big ship and it takes time to steer it.

Why can’t you just change it back to the way it was before the april 2014 feature patch, then? Or, like I said, make the adept traits free, and make master and grandmaster unlockable. That would seem to be an easy fix.

I actually wonder if this is just a method to absorb all the skill scrolls they’ve pumped into the game.

I think a good middle ground is to make adept traits free, and lock master and grandmaster. That gives people something to work with, and lets them play around with traits, while still giving them something to work for.

Donari.5237:

Becka Williams.4978:

I think there’s far more problems I’d rather Anet work on then making it so that people can use skins for a different armor class. It would also wreck havoc in WvW and pvp, cause then you couldn’t tell at a glance what armor class they were. You see a norn in light armor, and boom, hammer stun because they’re a warrior.

This particular rationale is frequently brought up but simply no longer applies thanks to outfits. Unless outfits are disabled in sPvP and WvW? I don’t know, I’ve not gone in those areas wearing an outfit. If they’re not, then good luck figuring out if that norn in the Ancestral Outfit is light, medium, or heavy before that hammer stun gets you.

Perhaps that’s an argument to ban outfits in wvw/pvp, and not to allow mixing and matching armor classes?

I think there’s far more problems I’d rather Anet work on then making it so that people can use skins for a different armor class. It would also wreck havoc in WvW and pvp, cause then you couldn’t tell at a glance what armor class they were. You see a norn in light armor, and boom, hammer stun because they’re a warrior.

I looked at the squad color, and I would not call the two colors “substantially different” They’re very similar, to me, almost the same. Now, it’s a good point that impersonating a GM is a serious offense, and we can report them, but I might look at making the colors a bit more different.