Guild Wars 2

MidgeisGood.2153:

Based on your last comment im gona say you’re talking about pvp. Well guess what, thats not all what GW2 is all about. In pve it is quite good, great use of blinds, teleport for in-and-out, daze and still good damage.

You’re not the best thief in gw2, so stop acting like it

News flash: Everything is good in PvE, PvE is easy, I lvled till lvl 76-78 with lvl 40 items! Good damage? What do you call good damage? 2x Unload do more damage than 10-12 sec of damage from a D/P set.

@Knyx:

What you said is a joke. No skilled competitive intelligent Thief player would play D/P if he is going for a burst spec, why would he? What combo field? Bring smoke utility or waste initiative on Black Powder so he can heartseeker through it while his target is 100% hp so he can get a stealth? Don’t make me laugh. D/P is the biggest fail set on the Thief in PvP, D/D does the role better. Also, how are you going to CnD with D/P?

@ddrake

P/P condition dmg? You clearly know what you are talking about.

Jjiinx.8795:

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

Cris Croix.2370:

Isn’t this thread called “Fantasy THIEF skills”? If so, then why do people keep bringing up Assassin’s when that class doesn’t exist in this game? Thieves are NOT Assassin’s, why is that such a hard concept for some people? It seems like more than half of the suggestions in here are based around the assumption that Thieves are Assassins, when in fact, they aren’t. Be more realistic or re-name the thread.

LOL, Thieves are Assassins and Assassins are Thieves.

Thief [theef]
noun, plural thieves.
a person who steals, especially secretly or without open force; one guilty of theft or larceny.

As·sas·sin [uh-sas-in]
noun, plural assassins.
a murderer, especially one who kills a politically prominent person for fanatical or monetary reasons.

So Thieves in GW2 don’t kill, don’t use force etc. they just hop around and steal stuff? glad you cleared that one up!

Oh wait, we are talking about a fantasy setting and class names which means that they have other boundaries than that of the real world!

Thief, Assassin and Rogue or w.e you name the class will allways be 90% based on the classic Assassin archetype; Stealth, Shadowstep, Poison and Daggers.

P.S: >Implying Arenanet didn’t name the class Thief just to make it feel different and “innovate”.

ddrake.5436:

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

Unicorn build in your dreams, it is called Blood Storm and I was probably the first person who made this build while people where rocking their PW and HS

@ OP, come do a 1v1 against me, name a time.

haha I love it when someone thinks they have copyright over a build. you sir are just silly. you didn’t come up with anything unless you designed and built the game :P

I don’t think I have copy right, my version is called Blood Storm and I was playing it before the name “unicorn” was even mentioned on this forum

P/P and all Pistol builds would be tPvP viable with the following changes:

1. Vital Shot: Instead of bleed, it adds 1 stack of vulnerability for 5 sec.
1.1 Sneak Attack: remains the same.
2. Body Shot: Instead of vulnerability, it adds 3-4 stacks of bleed for 6-8 sec.
3. Unload: Damage increased by 15%, fire speed increased by 20%.
4. Head Shot: Damage increased by 300% (it has to become a mid combat viable interrupt instead of an anti-rez/stomp/quickness).
5. Black Powder: Reduce the initiative cost by 1.

ehtom.5047:

I think the excellent point that the OP is trying to make clear is that in its current state thief will never be balanced. Being based around one-button spam builds means that either the “button” will be overpowered or it will be underpowered.

That is what Arenanet wanted, deal with it. Good Thieves don’t spam the same ability back to back, they time it and make sure it lands.

Unicorn build in your dreams, it is called Blood Storm and I was probably the first person who made this build while people where rocking their PW and HS

@ OP, come do a 1v1 against me, name a time.

Cris Croix.2370:

Isn’t this thread called “Fantasy THIEF skills”? If so, then why do people keep bringing up Assassin’s when that class doesn’t exist in this game? Thieves are NOT Assassin’s, why is that such a hard concept for some people? It seems like more than half of the suggestions in here are based around the assumption that Thieves are Assassins, when in fact, they aren’t. Be more realistic or re-name the thread.

LOL, Thieves are Assassins and Assassins are Thieves.

Make a Thief yourself and find out.

Worst Thief weapon set, even P/P is more useful.

Calysto.7469:

WvW is a great place to look at balance. You’re looking at a much bigger crowd size to take data from. sPvP has it’s place, but don’t go getting all high and mighty because you refuse to play WvW.

Great comedy, thank you.

Namu.5712:

Blazer- I wasn’t saying they weren’t designed to be mobile I was just stating that the mobility on top of massive dps is the problem…. and evades count as mobility in my book. Especially since you can increase endurance recharge rate on a thief. 25% speed boost plus rolls…. thats mobility. Far better mobility then other professions save maybe a ele. Oh and almost forgot swiftness on roll…. if you trait for it.

Swiftness on roll is minor trait and every thief that goes in acrobatic traits gets it. Evades are not mobility, they do not increase speed directly or travel large distance, evades are defensive. Mobility is teleports, swiftness, portals and abilities that zap you to your target. Thief is not the only profession that can increase their endurance recharge, Warrior’s and Engineers can do that too and they have two times stronger passive defence than a squishy Thief.

I know that getting 2 shotted from nowhere is not fun, when I play my power crit builds I experience this from Backstab thieves. The problem is not the mobility, it is the damage. Redesign Assassin’s Signet to avoid 1 shot backstab and remove the Steal trait that makes steal deal damage and it’s fixed.

You know why Stealth and Shadow step’s are present in most Thief/Assassin/Rogue classes? because these are the iconic and most popular attributes to the people that play these classes. I always main Thief/Assassin/Rogue in any game I play. If you take away Stealth or Shadow Steps then you might aswell delete Thief profession, I am not even joking.

Shadow Signet was bandaid fix to Thieves because they lacked swiftness, there is an audio transcript of arenanet developers and balance testers talking about it and deciding to add it (pre-beta? don’t remember).

TheRamosOnline.2670:

Blazer Hellsing, I really do wish it was.
The guardian in my guild whispered me to give him a hand with a thief who was grieving him in the EB puzzle, I went inside and almost as soon as I loaded, PHWOMP!
I’m pulled down, locked down, dead.
Didn’t even get to see him, the render engine wasn’t having it.
So after a respawn, I get some guildies together and give it another whirl; we wanted to clear the puzzle anyway.
The 4 of us go inside, coast is clear.
We jump down, phwamp. Guardian at 50%. Guardian at 10%. Guardian down.
Still can’t see what’s doing it. Engie down. Didn’t even notice his HP falling. Now I’m getting attacked. Still can’t see the thief. I pop every field I have ready, thief finally visible but I’m downed. Ele has no idea what he’s doing and hardly fights back before getting downed.
All the while he made sure to melee us to stop us from healing between HS.

So this wasn’t a bogstandard thief, this guy knew what he was doing, but that didn’t make it any less annoying.
:v

WvW… should have known it. Sorry man, I can’t be bothered to take input from WvW experience serious when it comes to game balance. In WvW there is a thing called “Gear Imbalance”, in sPvP a Heartseeker won’t be that effective. The developers are not concerned with “balance” in WvW, only in sPvP. WvW was designed to be large scale imbalanced PvP.

Yes they do, infact from my experience they are the only mmorpg company that legitametly look at forums.

I lol’d at your “red gem” value. No pro gamer will invest time in that. Also the game is free so don’t know how that works out :p

Stealth is fine, Thief mobility is fine.

Thief needs a redesign to Assassin’s Signet to stop 1 shot backstabs and change the trait that makes Steal deal damage.

Then Thief will be the most balanced profession in the game.

Nice bro, Great Sword Warrior ownage

Bunkers are fine man, stop complaining. I can take them on my Thief, Necromancer and Warrior. 50% of the time I lose eventually but still, they are fine.

TheRamosOnline, your story is made up or you didn’t comprehend what happend during that battle.

No Thief will ever take down a “purely defensive” Guardian with spamming Heart Seeker from the start of the battle and then take down another player with “enough initiative”.

Heartseeker damage is a joke when you are above 50% hp, if I spam heart seekers till I am out of initiative, recharge initiave with traits and abilities and spam more heart seekers in to a purely defensive guardian… I won’t get him below 50% hp.

Heartseeker is gap closer and finisher, nothing more. You can’t use it as main damage ability.

Namu.5712:

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

Namu.5712:

Paynful-

You make it sound as everything you said apply’s the most to this profession…. it applies to every profession.

A bad warrior is a bad warrior nothing changes.

The only difference is other class’s aren’t as forgiving. A thief can get away with not knowing how to play and still be better then average.

Opps I messed up, run away stealth try again. Other class’s dont get a get out of jail free card when they screw up…. well maybe mez’s, which are much harder to master imo.

Thief has more “get out of jail free cards” because they will get in jail faster. Other professions don’t need get out of jail free cards because they are more durable.

But that durability doesn’t mean much against a thief. Thats where the problem comes in with our profession. Risk vs reward, we have high risk, sure if the opponent can lock us down…. which most of the time they can’t in my experience anyways.

We have the high burst/dps, and we have the mobility to get out if it goes the wrong way. Those two things are cause for concern and why there is so much chatter about this profession in particular. We are in a way more durable because taking no damage is better then tanking damage. And we are the best profession at avoiding damage completely.

Its not hard to dodge a backstab build, but its hard to dodge a back stab build when:
A. they are invisible
B. have more mobility

This assumes the thief didn’t throw away their mobility.

But the stealth issue is still a problem.

The real problem is the people abusing it intentionally I think. People that KNOW the other player can’t see them when they are attacking.

1. Backstab build is a joke in tPvP, venom share and conditions are better.
2. Thieves not taking damage? that is duo to their evades, not mobility.
3. What good does it do if the thief runs away from you? Don’t chace him, go get a base. This is conquest after all.
4. Stealth is fine.
5. Thief mobility is a bit too good at the moment because of the nature of conquest, if you nerf that you will have to improve their defence. That is why you don’t see any Thief bunkers, but you see that multiple thief builds all can be a roamer.
6. Backstab builds 2 shotting people from nowhere is not a mobility problem, but a damage problem. Just nerf that idiotic steal trait and change Assassin’s Signet to give 5-10 stacks of might for 5-8 sec and the Thief will be the most balanced class in the game.

Thief is designed to be mobile, period.

There is no such a thing as “Heartseeker thief”, seriously.

You didn’t kill him, you downed him I don’t know why arenanet chose the downed state, especially in PvP. Don’t care really, sometimes you can 1v2 even with the downed state. Try your best mate.

Doubt they will nerf backstab, they didn’t touch Quickness because it applies to multiple professions. If they nerf backstab build they will nerf Assassin Signet and Steal doing damage trait (did 6k with it once lol).

Namu.5712:

Paynful-

You make it sound as everything you said apply’s the most to this profession…. it applies to every profession.

A bad warrior is a bad warrior nothing changes.

The only difference is other class’s aren’t as forgiving. A thief can get away with not knowing how to play and still be better then average.

Opps I messed up, run away stealth try again. Other class’s dont get a get out of jail free card when they screw up…. well maybe mez’s, which are much harder to master imo.

Thief has more “get out of jail free cards” because they will get in jail faster. Other professions don’t need get out of jail free cards because they are more durable.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

Backstab – Shadow step behind your target and stab him in the back, high damage, ranged ability.

Classic Assassin ability <3

backstab is in game. stealth yourself while holding a dagger, aim for the back for double damage.

combine with stealth when stealing, and you got exactly the skill you just described.

Nope, don’t want it with stealth and steal won’t shadowstep me behind the target when I face them. Also, the combo you described will take 1-2 sec. I want it to be instant

Atleast 70% of these “OP” threads are from WvW experience which is gear imbalance to the max I wouldn’t take these threads serious if I were you.

Before beta weekends you and I predicted this exact same problem with Initiative and that it will lead to this playstyle, Arenanet knew this and chose this as the path for Thief. The only chance we had was pre-beta, if the Thief is going to get a redesign it will be in an expansion pack which will be another year or two.

I don’t think they will nerf every viable thief build, they won’t go further than an Assassin’s Signet nerf, steal damage trait nerf.

Thief is in a good spot, it has 1 condition build that is insane (the best in my opinion), it has a good support build with venom share and it had multiple burst damage builds that have been adjusted.

The complexity that you and I wanted for the Thief isn’t there, the Thief is the FPS profession of GW2, only thing that matters is reaction and timing. You won’t have cool combinations like a warrior, elementalist or engineer etc. This fact will also prevent Arenanet from changing the Thief because a lot of people like this playstyle.

Death blossom is horrible? lol, don’t spam it and then be useless after a condition swipe or shift, balance your initiave vs professions that can counter condition.

There are two things that will never be nerfed: Stealth and Shadowstep. 90% of Thief players play the Thief for these 2 important traits, nerf these and you will kill the Thief.

Kurow.6973:

Blazer Hellsing.9184:

They won’t nerf anything, if they do it will be Assassin’s Signet and the trait that makes Steal do damage.

That’ll make steal even more garbage compared to other class’s class specialty.

As long as there is a Warrior or Necromancer on the opposing team, Steal will be good

Thief is fine, really. Don’t get why people cry.

Backstab – Shadow step behind your target and stab him in the back, high damage, ranged ability.

Classic Assassin ability <3

They won’t nerf anything, if they do it will be Assassin’s Signet and the trait that makes Steal do damage.

Oh cool, didn’t know people actually played glass cannon guardians like you! Well as a glass cannon you’ll have trouble against a thief glass cannon.

Mrbig, Thief won’t get a class overhaul, trust me.

Thief benefits from weapon switching, but not in the same way that other classes do. Thief game play is based on timing.

Stay away from P/P in sPvP, it is weak. Try Backstab build or D/D condition.

Pistol Whip is still good, don’t understand why people complain.

I use Pistol/Pistol for PvE dungeons. Pistol/Pistol is terrible in sPvP, Shortbow, Dagger/Dagger, Sword/Pistol and Sword/Dagger dominate sPvP.

I rarely do WvW so don’t know how useful it is there, but I hope Arenanet improves Pistol/Pistol because it is my favorite set when it comes to esthetics.

It is in PvE because of bleed cap. I prefer power/crit in PvE. In PvP condition damage is all right.

Didn’t know there are jumping puzzles in sPvP

Our paths cross once again old friend

The Thief was doomed to this playstyle when they implemented global inititave for both weapon sets, you and I complained about a lot of valid stuff but this is the vision arenanet has for the Thief.

I play a Thief, Necromancer and Warrior and the combo’s and complexity with Necro and Warrior lies with the execution of many skills to get an epic outcome, while the complexity with Thief lies mostly on Timing. A Thief that spams 3x Death Blossoms as soon as he can is not effective as a Thief that uses 3x Death Blossom and with every Death Blossom he evades an enemy attack. Thief is all about timing, nothing else.

Don’t worry too much old friend, Guild Wars 2 is not going go be an E-Sport anytime soon anyways :p just enjoy the game.

dodge or evade.

Warriors easy kill for me, it all depends on timing and avoiding their important abilities.

spif.7580:

I see almost every Thief build out there using Signet of Shadows. It may not be “fine”.

It doesn’t matter where you put the 25% speed increase on, 80% of the thieves in sPvP will use it. They knew this and thought it was fine.

Knyx.5926:

@Blazer It doesn’t have those options because the weapon sets do not make sense with the dual skills, they are mixed in sets where they shouldn’t be. This is why we have weapon sets, and they should be choices for specific builds. Saying thief is fine as it is just sounds like a HS/PW spammer that builds on relying on haste…

Dude? Seriously? Why do you accuse me of playing a HS/PW build? I don’t play that. You don’t comprehend what good design is, I will explain. Good design is that 1 single weapon set, D/D has different play styles, crit/power and condition. This is the same for Short bow, these weapons are the best designed weapons for the Thief.

ZLE.8293:

Apparently you don’t spam it in your own feet as a melee skill…

Why would I when I can leaping death blossom?

I don’t need to read further, the Thief is fine as it is. It has options for both crit/power and condition builds which are both viable paths to take. That is good design.

ZLE.8293:

Heartseekeer needed a nerf.Cluster Bomb needs a small nerf.Pistol Whip didn’t need a nerf(Haste deserved it).Backstab don’t need nerf(Assassin Signet maybe deserve it).A lotof other thief skills need a buff/redesign.

Cluster bomb needs a small nerf? lol, it needs a buff.

The drive behind all these wannabe Assassin classes like WoW’s rogue, GW2’s thief etc. has been the Assassin archetype, quick, agile, stealthy and a little bit of poison just in case.

I like them all, Rogue, Thief, Assassin etc. but all of these classes have an Assassin game play at their core, as they should. Assassin = Win