Guild Wars 2

How to Fix DD:

1. Remove Dodges as GM traits.
2. Create 3 GM traits
3. Adjust staff to be a more synergetic and friendlier initiative use weapon
4. Adjust sustains traits
5. Fix animations

Good start.

The Tooltip on Channeled Vigor reads “Physical,” I wonder if there are any ideas or plans for the future to change the heal to reflect the tooltip?

I think that would be an interesting and unique characteristic to add to DD.

Best suggestion imo is to start all over with DD, scrap everything thus far. Take ideas from the community and release the new Elite Specialization again whenever it’s ready.

I’d personally rather wait a bit longer for something that has effort put into it, than use something that looks like it was thrown together overnight in a hurry.

To be frank i’d be completely ok if DD was completely gutted and started from scratch. Even if that meant it wouldn’t be ready by release.

I would actually ENCOURAGE that. lol.

Here’s something unique and interesting to add to Daredevil..

Stances.

Stance 1: F3 Ability: Defensive Stance: Way of the Mushin no shin ; In this stance DD would have access to abilities that would sacrifice damage out put for sustain and condition removal. Access to blocks and bonus endurance regeneration. Access to unique utilities.

Stance 2: F4 Ability: Offensive Stance: Way of the 1000 fists; this stance would give the DD access to high damage and control abilities along with an enhanced movement speed and initiative regeneration while sacrificing overall sustain and healing. Access to Unique utilities.

You could switch between the two during a fight depending on your needs.

Something like an adrenaline bar would be at the top of your endurance called your “Zen” bar. This would be filled the longer you were in combat based on damage you dealt. When the bar becomes full you can access this stance. Once you activate it, it decreases until it reaches zero or you cancel the stance.

Zen Stance: Gain the ability to see stealthed foes for the time this stance is active. Condition damage is reduced substantially and your abilities cost half of the initiative. Damage output is increased and gain access to unique and very powerful utilities.

I know i’m a dreamer, but let me dream. That and i’m desperate and I want to see DD succeed!

Nike.2631:

Alright, lets run with Thieves actually stealing stuff, that’s got a nice ring to it, yes?

There’s two types of boon steal – stealing any type of boon the target has, and stealing specific boons. Lets try to fit both into the Daredevil.

STAFF
Just going with the names of the attacks we get…

• Weakening Charge. Add “Steals Might from foes struck and transfers it to yourself.”
• Debilitating Arc. Add “Steals Regeneration from foes struck and transfers it to yourself.”

…Making Staff a truly unique tool for thieves and giving the Daredevil an interesting counter to the over-saturated “Might-meta”. Stealing Regeneration is a fabulous ‘swing’ effect keeping your enemies from getting out from under your pressure while giving the Daredevil sustain through theft.

ELITE
There’s concern Impact Strike’s value is chiefly limited to the final moments of a fight you’ve already won because of the finishing mechanic. But with boon steal…

• Impact Strike. Add “Steals 1 boon from your foe.”
• Uppercut. Add “Steals 1 boon from your foe.”
• Finishing Blow. Add “Steals 1 boon from your foe.”

…It makes the elite more appealing mid-fight and more hilarious as a finisher where you essentially are picking a dead man’s pockets…

This is a great idea, this is also assuming the staff abilities and impact strike are going to stay the way they are. I sincerely hope not.

I’d like to bring back the topic of more Boon Stealing capabilities for the DD.

PvP meta has always been about boons. Giving boons, stripping boons, converting boons etc, but the action that you find most prevalent among many of the professions is the ability to generate and sustain their own boons.

This is a fantastic opportunity to balance this ever so increasing abundance of boons that were going to see when HoT is released.

With the introduction of specializations like the Herald and Tempest boons are going to not only last longer but they’re going to be much more available and easily accessed.

The DD can potentially kill two birds with one stone, on one hand they would have the ability to steal boons that they need to survive (since they’re expected to play with less stealth) and on the other hand forces enemies to think twice before they just pile on boon after boon without any thought of consequences.

This way development wouldn’t have to consider what abilities gave what boons, the player could figure that situation themselves and take what they believed they needed the most at that time.

This would certainly put the Thief back into a more competitive position against opponents like Prismatic Understanding Mesmers, D/D Elementalists, Engineers and Guardians and add more balance and counter play to this meta of rapid boon application.

It would be even more interesting to consider if a DD could steal “effects” like Super Speed and Alacrity.

The overall idea here is that DD GM traits only effect them when they dodge. In that 1 second channel time you get the benefit of a GM trait.

What do you get when you’re not dodging from your GM traits? Nothing.

So for you math people out there before enhanced regeneration (Vigor, passive traits..etc.) You get three seconds total to benefit from the “strongest” traits in your specialization, before they go on cool down and you regenerate enough endurance to benefit from them again.

Or we can very easily remove the Dodges from the GM line and create three new GM traits that would benefit you’re entire style of play; whether you were dodging or not. That is what a GM trait should be and has been until now.

Reaper benefits from their GM traits whether they’re in Death Shroud or not, exception being Reapers onslaught and that still affects ALL of the shroud abilities.

Tempest GM traits are the same way, they can benefit from them whether they’re overloading or not. They have that choice.

Dragonhunter, Berserker, Scrapper…etc…

Yulan.4069:

Bllade.1029:

Here are your GM traits, they compliment your over all play style depending on your needs.

Please enlighten me on how this isn’t exactly what the 3 different dodge traits do.

I would enlighten you, but that would take me a wall of text to show you the point we’re trying to make here.

Best thing I can say for you is to look up all of the other Grandmaster traits of the other specializations then compare them to what we have currently. Note the differences and i’m sure you’ll come to your own conclusion.

Amante.8109:

Rising Dusk.2408:

I’m shocked that you’ve persisted so diligently in asserting that the Daredevil GMs aren’t “real”. They all have very real effects on dodge, and all augment dodge in a unique way that makes them very strong. I’m not sure what you genuinely expect to change in response to your complaints.

How many other elite specializations trade a whole tier of trait choices for their elite mechanic, exactly? Oh right… zero.

Or are you going to insist with a straight face that it’s an extra dodge-bar pip?

Agreed 100%. Does Reaper need to spec into a GM trait to gain Reaper Shroud? Does Tempest need a GM trait to Overload?

Should DD be forced to choose one GM trait just to use its core mechanic? The Dodges should be a package deal, here’s DD you get an extra endurance bar and three unique dodges you can select from via this handy dandy UI we put in; very much like Revenant.

Here are your GM traits, they compliment your over all play style depending on your needs.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I’m not too concerned about stability and aegis stopping this skill. That’s what aegis and stability are supposed to do: stop attacks and stuns. They wouldn’t be very good boons if they didn’t. Having counterplay isn’t the problem. I just want this chain to do 50% more damage, that way when we see an opening it is worthwhile to actually use the skill.

I agree, it’s not the counter play. It’s the fact that everyone has it. Now a days boons are everywhere dished out on relatively low cooldowns. Many of these boons are passive traits we find in defensive trees, so imagine we have to use this ability when the enemy is close to 25%, just so happens at 25% they gain 5 stacks of stability for 15 seconds.

It’s an easy fix though, like i said unblockable, significant damage increase like you suggested and something like a 100% critical hit on the final strike with a knockdown if it doesn’t instantly kill an enemy. That way you could use the ability at any point in an engagement; maybe find an opening where their stab is down and use the ability to lock ’em down for a combo with fist flurry.

The synergy here is potentially amazing.

Pukc.6328:

My idea for one is: You are unable to gain stealth(should change certain stolen abilities while under the effects of this) When you dodge gain one random boon.
Physical apply boons.
Channeled Vigor- Aegis
Bandit defense- Protection
Distracting Daggers- 3 stacks of Stability
Fist Flurry- Might for each hit
Impairing Daggers- Resistance
Impact Strike- Quickness

I know alot of you will object to the no stealth part of this but I believe that reason we lack boons is because we gain so much from stealth(not interested in talking mesmer to much there).

The boon meta is really boring and unoriginal. Every profession has access to boons one way or another, instead of piling on more boons for an already prevalent boon meta, this might be a good opportunity to embrace what the class is by nature: A Thief.

Instead of providing our own boons, have more access to stealing other peoples boons.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Glad to hear all of these changes.

Any word about the Impact Strike chain basically only working once you’ve already won?

Glad you brought this up, I wanted to see how other people felt about this ability. Here are my feelings.

Primary concerns with Impact Strike:

1. The total chain cast time is 2.75 seconds long. That’s a too large of a window for a profession that has no access to stability to be interrupted or countered.

2. What makes this ability an elite in the first place is the instant stomp at the end of a hard control chain. Due to the mechanics of this ability, to gain the full benefit a DD must wait towards the end of a fight when the enemies health is low. Unlike every other elite in the game there is no mechanical requirement when an elite should be used. As Arachnid put it, when the fight was already won.

3. Boons are going to stop this ability in it’s tracks. One aegis, protection or stability boon makes this elite practically useless in it’s current state, and just about every profession now a days has access to these and can reapply them relatively quickly.

Thoughts?

PopeUrban.2578:

Bllade.1029:

Nice suggestions, but timing is off. With HoT so close to launch, Karl barely has the time to fix DD much less make changes to the core Thief.

You should re-post this after launch, you’d have a better chance of attracting some attention and your ideas are solid.

no, we wouldn’t have a better time of attracting attention. We’ve been trying for years. DD feedback is the first time any developer that we know of has read this forum in over a year.

And you think that because he’s responding in the DD feedback topic that hes just going to mosey on over here and open up a whole new can of worms one month from launch?

Post this after launch once things have calmed down, too much focus is on DD/Tempest/Dragon hunter right now and if enough people get behind your post could usher in some good changes for the core Thief.

Unless of course, Karl has intentions to make some changes to the core Thief while at the same time working on the DD. I Guess we’ll see.

Nice suggestions, but timing is off. With HoT so close to launch, Karl barely has the time to fix DD much less make changes to the core Thief.

You should re-post this after launch, you’d have a better chance of attracting some attention and your ideas are solid.

This has much larger fundamental issues than the simple utility of the ability. The problem is not how practical the ability is or if this elite will even be commonly used; the problem is that with a click of a button this elite can shut down an entire trait line.

This trait line being Shadow Arts, is currently the only viable defensive measure Thieves have available to them. This is an indirect Nerf to Shadow Arts; and not counter play. One ability does not define counter-play.

This type of thought process has led an ugly spiral downward for the Thief and is a large contributor to why the Thief is currently in the position it’s in now.

In regards to this Shadow Refuge dodge inside issue. If this is done right, you won’t need it.

SR has been a tool Thieves have used to reset the fight in the past, but if DD is built correctly with efficient abilities and sustainability….

You won’t even need it. Yes, there are a lot of “if’s” but i’m optimistic. So far Karl has made the correct changes and is definitely putting the DD in the direction it needs to go in.

Shalien.9018:

I’ve taken the liberty to take my example UI a step further. Now it’s broken down into two images.

• In the first, you see what it looks like when you have a dodge selected
• In the second, you see what it looks like while selecting a dodge

This needs to be baseline for Daredevil so that we have the same access to Tier 3 Grandmaster Traits as all of the other elite specializations.

This.

The benefits of our dodge as GM traits do not even remotely compare to those of other specializations. I’m sure I don’t need to give any specifics its as easy as looking it up.

If something like Shalien’s suggestion is considered, it would fix just about everyone’s concern with needing a GM trait to unlock the core mechanic of the profession. At the same time, this would allow these GM traits to potentially compliment ALL if the DD’s dodges.

Nike.2631:

Tabootrinket.2631:

To be honest, the problem you’re mentioning isn’t supposed to be ours.

You’re right. The problem on this side of the fence is having any concept of the level of effectiveness we’re supposed to be receiving. I get it the thief community is feeling a bit downtrodden after ages of being THE most despised of all professions. But GOOD DESIGN gives you a set of options that put you at the middle of the pack, not leapfrogging to the top spot.

It should be good enough a skilled player can win some of the time against other skilled players. That’s it. Not amazing. Sure as hell not stance dancing what they felt were three GMs worth of awesome. Oh, with another GM on top like a cherry.

Disappointment is the distance between bad expectations and reality. The bad expectations running rampant with “Oh, sure, just give us a triple GM and then 3 more GMs to pick from” is raw absurdity.

Could the Daredevil be better. Yes. Should it be better? Maybe, the data is kinda limited. Is it going to get THAT MUCH BETTER? Hell no. What gains are there to be made will be made within the framework we have now.

Give them some feedback and ideas they can use, because “We want 4 GMs instead of one!” doesn’t even pass the laugh test.

I understand exactly what you’re saying, but dodges aren’t GM worthy to begin with. These aren’t GM traits, they’re a core defensive mechanic.

Just because they’re in the GM trait line, doesn’t mean they’re GM worthy. So no, we’re asking for our core defensive mechanic and to have GM traits like everyone else.

Nike.2631:

Does ANYONE here think they’re going to give not just one, but all three of the current GrandMaster effects as a freebie (which incidentally you CAN toggle outside of combat — what you can’t do and never will do is dance between 3 GMs mid-match…) and then write up/code/test 3 more Grandmaster scale benefits in the 30 days remaining before launch.

You are describing a fairy tale.

There’s still persuasive arguments and bargains to be made with the Devs in the eternal quest for buffs to a spec you want to play, but that? That ain’t one of them.

Forget about the launch date, it’s a forgone conclusion DD will not be polished by launch; same goes for many of the new Elite specializations.

We might as well assume that these changes are going to happen post-release and give feedback under that assumption.

In regards to the Dash animation, an instant shadowstep would be interesting to promote the theme; but I feel like it would run into many mechanical issues that Karl mentioned. Best way to approach this would be to make dash a “blur” and the animation fast much faster than any current dodges.

Also, I agree that the DD’s core mechanic should not require GM traits to be accessible.

These changes are certainly in the right direction.

Now that Dash removes immobilize; I wonder if Staff 3: Debilitating Arc will keep it’s immobilize removal?

Arctarius.2649:

Maugetarr.6823:

Shalien.9018:

Bllade.1029:

Might as well keep this Feedback train rolling;

How do we feel about Staff #4? Any Suggestions?

How about Channeled Vigor the DD heal?

Consensus on Staff 4 is to make it take 1/2 second cast time and put down a darkness field that pulses blind for 3 seconds.

Not many people talk about the heal because they aren’t planning on using it. A 3 person cleave physical attack that heals you and if you hit someone returns endurance would be leagues above the weird super long channel skill we have now.

How about a heal that returns 100 endurance instantly and heals a small amount (~2.5k) and then gives you a buff that the next 3 times you evade attacks you gain health (~1k) per successful evasion. Put a time limit of 10 seconds for the buff.

With the reveal timer, 3 would be pointless, I like your idea but instead it should be, for 10 seconds you have ( the next evade you make grants you stealth) and the buff is removed once stealth is granted. Even in the moment you get stealth, that’s 1 second, then at least 2 while in stealth, then 4 of reveal. 7 seconds gone so I don’t see the point in the 3.

That’s interesting, the tooltip of the heal actually reads “Physical.” What if we combined your idea with a unique heal that actually was physical?

If you look at all of the other specializations the heal kind of supports the role they’re meant to fill; Example: Tempest’s heal is more support; Reapers heal does damage and provides the means to do more damage via Life force.

What if Daredevil’s heal incorporated a targetable offensive physical attack? Could use your idea to give an example:

Evade forward to your target and gain 100 endurance and a small heal. Upon striking your target gain access to a buff that allows your next three attacks to heal you additionally for each attack landed.

A heal like this would really promote staying in the fight, while at the same time giving the option to use it for a retreat/gap opener.

Might as well keep this Feedback train rolling;

How do we feel about Staff #4? Any Suggestions?

How about Channeled Vigor the DD heal?

Also Amante, it might be nice to create a brief summary of what we’ve discussed to weed through all of the posts not on the topic of DD suggestions for improvement.

Since you seem to be really good at that, would you mind?

Ohoni.6057:

So you want a reverse sword#2 or ranger sword #2. Good luck with your request just don’t give staff any kind of smoke field.

No, I just like Staff 3 as it is. No changes needed.

Make the initial part of the ability cost 3 initiative; the flip ability a follow up gap closer that costs 1 and gives some sort of benefit, but you only get the flip ability if you actually contact a target with it. Kills two birds with one stone.

No. We already have plenty of ways of getting back in, and this would mean that if you hit it twice, you wouldn’t end up twice as far away, you would just end up back where you started.

Yes you would as long as you didn’t strike anything with your staff.

So, you get immobilized you can hit it quickly to break it that will cost 3 intiative but if you make contact like Amante said you would be rewarded with a cheap re-engage that could provide useful utility. That re-engage could also come with an evade, and would address the issue of being left in the open from rolling backwards and spending initiative to put the thief in a dis favorable position. At the same time, you’d have two opportunities to gain the benefits from DD’s passive traits.

What that Utility could be would be up to Karl, but it opens up an opportunity to address some concerns in the player base.

Seems like a lot of us are torn between staff #3; we’ll see what Karl has to say.

An idea would be to change Staff skill #3 into a flip ability like Flanking Strike and Larcenous Strike.

Make the initial part of the ability cost 3 initiative; the flip ability a follow up gap closer that costs 1 and gives some sort of benefit, but you only get the flip ability if you actually contact a target with it. Kills two birds with one stone.

That way you can use the consecutive evades if you feel like you need to; other wise you can close the gap.

hino.3157:

Ohoni.6057:

I feel the need to remind you guys that the Thief does not have cooldowns.

Initiative is a different kind of cooldown.

Ohoni.6057:

Staff 3 does pull you out of melee range, and if you then want back in quickly, you might have to Dodge, use one of Staff’s two built-in gap-closers, or Steal. This is not terrible

You seem to be under the impression that Steal won’t be on cooldown and Thieves have infinite initiative. Why should we have to waste initiative in order to compensate with an awkward move? S/D 3 doesn’t do this.

Exactly. Why do we have to use more resources to make up for our own ability? Why is this the only #3 Thief weapon skill that puts you in a position where you cannot maintain pressure on your target?

Anyone see the Scrappers Hammer skills? Did anyone notice any of those abilities displacing the Engineer out of melee range? Reaper Greatsword?

A melee two-handed weapon’s skills should always function around keeping you in melee.

PopeUrban.2578:

I remember when we were masters of stealth.

Then engineers got a mobile super-refuge.

And they still don’t rely on stealth to defend themselves.

Look, Karl, I realize this is the DD feedback thread, but acro was eviscerated, and with all the reveal being tossed around to every single other class in the game SA is being eviscerated as well.

You want our role in PvP to be back capping and +1? Well that’s awful, but if you’re going that direction go all the way. Give us more run speed, shadow steps, and mobility so we can at least reliably run from fights since it’s obvious that we’re not supposed to be able to win them unless we select the mandatory new evade playstyle.

I don’t even play a stealth build any more and I’m just plain upset about the constant inattention to thief stealth reliance as more and more revealed creeps its way in to the game.

how does it even make sense that the class The developers stated is “the master of stealth” actually worse at providing and maintaining stealth for both allies and self than not one but both pet spam classes?

How is thief burst even a problem when compared to mesmer burst, or the upcoming engineer stunlock?

Isn’t it more problematic to have a class that can continually hand out lethal damage while remaining completely invisible? Didn’t you nerf cloak & dagger because of that exact issue?

Isn’t it more problematic for a class that can literally stunlock someone for upwards of ten seconds to also hand out obscene amounts of stealth to his allies?

I get that daredevil is all about the evasion. I’m a fan of that. But core thief is not in a good place and it is the only class that has all of its passive defenses turned off when revealed by an outside source

Since you’re in charge of thief balance at the moment, can you enlighten us as to why you feel this is an acceptable limitation for thieves, but not for classes with far better innate passive survivability tools?

Couldn’t of said that better myself and i’m really glad you did. I think many of us were hoping the Daredevil would fill in the MASSIVE gaps in thief gameplay you listed in your post. As we can all see though it’s going to take a lot more than Daredevil to put Thief in the position it needs to be in.

Only reason I posted this was to reinforce the fact that it’s not just a few people who feel this way.

Amante.8109:

BIRDPUNCHER.8263:

Is it reasonable to suggest that the Revealed-applying skills be changed to, instead of applying Revealed, simply removing stealth from affected players?

I would like to strongly echo this. The toolbelt skill on the Scrapper Elite removing players from Stealth instead of causing Revealed seems like a great direction to go with other anti-Stealth abilities. You could still leave in self-applied Reveal to stop people from chaining Stealth.

I’d also like to suggest the idea of profession-specific durations for self-applied Reveal. The Thief has been sold as the “master” of Stealth to the point where they’re balanced around using it to survive, so four seconds of Reveal hurts Thief disproportionately more than any other profession. Either way you cut it, Thief badly needs more reliable Stealth OR less reliance on it through an increase in core durability. Preferably the latter

I second that.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

This doesn’t make any sense.

What’s the reason for using DArc if not to get out of melee range? Just to be flashy?

I mean seriously, if you’re not immobilized, why would you use it?

If you’re immobilized you lose your ability to maintain pressure anyway and this is when you have to use DArc to get out of immob and re-engage.

Have you played a Thief before?

This topic has run it’s course, great discussion though.

babazhook.6805:

Maintain pressure is not a function of dual wield skills just because you say it is.

You’re right, it’s the function of a Thief. And as a Thief that is your job, applying pressure constantly and doing a massive amount of damage. An ability that costs you initiative to hinder that, is not an ability that should be on a thief WEAPON. If this were a utility, heal or if this ability kept you in melee range so you wouldn’t have to follow up with another resource consumptive ability or even gave some sort of additional benefit other than an evade and one condition removal this wouldn’t be an issue.

Cost/Benefit ratio here is off. There are much better alternatives available to the Thief that give the same benefit and are far less costly and not as permanent as a weapons skill. Also, notice that Thief weapons follow a certain trend; The #2 ability on most thief weapons offer some sort of gap closer and/or damage.

There is also a trend for all of the #3 skills that Thieves have access to; Some sort of defensive/offensive oriented ability. The difference is, if you want to follow this trend which is exactly what I think the staff is modeled after to begin with; all of those abilities allow you to stay on your target one way or another and do not require an additional ability to move back into range.

Staff 3 does.

I hope you’re having as much fun with this debate as I am, I think this is a great discussion.

babazhook.6805:

Why on Earth would I want to maintain melee range?

Staff is a melee weapon. That’s how it does damage. Auto-attack being its primary source of damage.

babazhook.6805:

I do not want to waste a dodge

Initiative is a much more difficult resource to come by than endurance as a Staff DD.

babazhook.6805:

if I need to avoid an attack or AOE as the dodge will very likely pull me AWAY from the opponent and the damage wasted.

You can choose the direction in which you dodge, you don’t get to choose the direction in which you roll with staff 3.

babazhook.6805:

Dodges are going to be used to do damage and wasting them to get away from an attack and away from an enemy is not an efficient use of them.

This goes back to you can choose the direction you dodge. You can evade AoE while still applying pressure to your target.

babazhook.6805:

It is not the same. Stop mentioning withdraw. it has no bearing on arc. One is a weapon skill one is a heal/ they have nothing to do with one another.

Debilitating Arc: Strike enemies in front of you, roll backward and evade, breaking immobilizing effects.

Withdrawl: Roll backward while healing and evade attacks. Cures immobilized, chilled, and crippled.

Youtube the animations.

One costs 18 seconds, the other one costs 25% of your initiative plus whatever you use to close the gap again. Which you’ll have to do, unless you plan on retreating or swapping to a ranged weapon. Were trying to promote staff synergy, not rely on weapon swaps to make up for it’s pitfalls.

babazhook.6805:

S/d is also a melee weaponset. it too has a skill that pulls you out of battle.

Which is the #2 skill not the #3 skill. Debilitating Arc is the #3 Skill on Staff.

babazhook.6805:

How is this functionally different from Arc?

Because Debilitating Arc is not the #2 gap closer most Thief weapons have. It’s the #3 Defensive ability that unlike all of the other #3 defensive abilities removes you from the range in which you can do damage. That range will cost you more to close it again.

Here are some #3 Weapon Skill references:

Death Blossom: Evades while stacking bleeds and dealing damage in an AoE area – Still maintains pressure while evading. 4 Initiative.

Shortbow: Disabling Shot – Cripples with an evade at range (This is essentially what the staff is doing for us right now) but the Shortbow is ranged damage. Maintains Pressure – 4 Initiative

Pistol Whip: Stun followed up with high DPS while evading – Maintains Pressure – 5 initiative

Shadow Strike: Apply torment, shadow step away from your enemy (600 range) and deal damage. P/D is RANGED DAMAGE Maintains pressure 4 initiative.

Shadow Shot: Fire an UNBLOCKABLE blinding shot at your foe, then shadowstep to them for a dagger strike. Gap closer, maintains pressure 4 initiative.

Debilitating Arc: Minor damage, cripple, evade, immobilize removal. – Lose pressure – 4 Initiative

babazhook.6805:

I will continue to disagree..

You suggested that Arc a weaker version of Withdraw. It i not that at all. You can not compare a heal to a weapon skill. There are only three weapon skills in the entire game that break IMMOB and Arc is by far the best.

Withdraw is not something people want to waste just to break an Immob. You want to use it when you need a heal.

Withdraw does not do damage to multiple enemies as one pulls back while Arc does.

Withdraw AND those other Immob breaks all have cooldowns. One can use Arc to break Three Immobs in a row. Nothing else can do this.

Arc also inflicts crippled and has an evade built in which those other weapon immob breakers do not.

Now even with that evade this is why I want to pull back when using Arc.

When Immobed in game this generally followed up by AOE attacks by an enemy or group of the same. It is followed by a hundred blades or a eviscerate or a fire grab or phoenix from an ele. Staying in place and relying on the evade to avoid all that is not enough. I want to get out and avoid what they might have built up for me and then reset my attack sequence with a bounding dodge right into the thick of things.

In the beta the skill did these very things. It also stepped me out of traps being set where I stood . I want that gap opener. While DD is supposed to make it easier for us to fight in melee we still can not fight like warriors or guardians. Our armor is not higher. Our health is not higher. We still have to use some measure of in and out. The set already has a number of in the thick of things attack type skills. I think this added mobility even as it takes you out of battle is something that will be needed.

The point of what were saying has nothing to do with it being better or worse than Withdraw. That was just a side point for reference and comparison; The point is it’s the exact same thing as withdraw with some added minor damage and a cripple and it’s a weapon skill that moves you out of melee range.

The immobilize removal is minuscule compared to the TOTAL cost of the ability and the lack of synergy it provides with the rest of the weapon. It is the only weapons skill #3 ability that completely removes you from being able to do consistent damage and maintain pressure on your target. That in and of itself is a HUGE disadvantage and cost in terms of being a Melee damage dealer.

Also there are ways to make the ability still break an immobilize and maintain pressure on the target. That would be the ideal fix on this ability; do everything it does now but MAINTAIN MELEE RANGE. Or maybe add an immobilize break to Weakening Charge, the possibilities are endless.

Amante.8109:

blarghhrrkblah.3412:

Just a suggestion for Unhindered Combatant…from what I have seen, the current animation for Dash is a short version of Rush. Might I suggest that, if absolutely no new animations can be made, the animation for Burning Speed or Shield Bash be used instead? Both of these animations retain the characters weapons (I read that the thief’s weapons would disappear when using Dash), and in my opinion, would feel more like a quick dash than Rush does.

I’ve heard two great suggestions on a proper animation for Dash. One is what you mention, the other would be it having little animation at all and being a fairly quick shadowstep instead. Due to the potential for deception, a blinking dodge would have to be carefully balanced, but you could tweak particulars like the distance of the dash and the duration of its boons to compensate.

Either way, really, as the current animation for Dash does not work at all.

https://youtu.be/vHNOLytV6hU?t=36s

There’s a good dash animation and speed imo.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Bllade.1029:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Amante.8109:

I had a couple thoughts on Staff I’d like to share.

People are generally of the opinion right now that Debilitating Arc is of limited usefulness, as the evade back takes you out of melee range. This forces you to spend even more Initiative on Vault or Weakening Charge to get back in after evading if you want to keep doing damage at all. Lest ArenaNet forget, Initiative is a precious resource that Thief never really has enough of.

My suggestion would be to add an effect to Debilitating Arc along these lines: “Your next Weakening Charge within X seconds costs no initiative.”

The only way that DebArc will be used is to give the Theif a breather, meaning when they don’t want to keep doing damage, perhaps heal or cleanse.

What you want is to combo it with other skills, but if you choose to do that, it has to cost you and making other skills cost less will make this skill to powerful because of what it can do.

For the cost of 4 init, you can;
- deals damage
- cleaves upto 3 targets
- evade attack
- gap creator
- break immobilize/cripple
- then heal if you successfully evade

Then you want to make the next gap closer for free? Too much stuff for a cost of 4 initiative don’t you think?

That ability in actuality will cost 8 or more initiative if you stay on staff. Which is 66% of a Thief’s base initiative pool right there. That means to use that combo, you’ll be forced into Trickery. With that it will still cost you over 50% of your initiative just to use those two abilities.

We all pay for the cost of making combos work but making the this to reduce the cost of a skill is not the right way to do this.

Creating a gap as a DD is counter-productive and initiative does not regenerate nearly as quickly as endurance does (im referring to DD endurance regeneration specifically.) Let’s say it stays the same and we swap weapons to main hand sword or dagger. Infiltrators strike and Heartseeker both cost 3 intitative. So to use that ability then switch weapons will cost you a 10 second weapon swap cooldown and 7 initiative. That is very costly for something Withdraw does for you for no initiative cost with a heal, condi removal, evade and a much larger gap opener. Not to mention only an 18 second cooldown.

What this one does that Withdraw can’t do is to be used up to 3 times in a row which will only cost a total of 12s cooldown. And no it’s not counter-productive because there’s no reason to use this skill without reason.

Amante has the right idea but the problem with his/her suggestion is that it kind of forces the player to use that strategy. After every Debilitating Arc everyone would use Weakening Charge if they got that reduced initiative cost. Doesn’t really promote different strategies and tactics.

When I use Withdraw, I close the gap with Steal or Scorpion Wire. You can very well do the same here.

I agree reducing the cost of Weakening Charge after DA isn’t the right way to do this.

The point is that Debilitating Arc is a weaker version of something we already have (Withdraw) on a weapon skill. If you’re going to promote synergy on the Staff initiative cost is going to be the first thing that’s going to shut that weapon’s usefulness down; When we look at initiative cost, it isn’t just the initial cost of one ability we have to consider.

When looking at initiative compared to all the other Thief weapon sets and combinations the Staff is very costly in terms of initiative for the utility provided.

It is counter-productive the minute you seperate yourself from the enemy with a MELEE weapon skill not a utility, not a heal skill a MELEE weapon skill

Let’s compare:

Death Blossom: Evades while stacking bleeds and dealing damage in an AoE area – Still maintains pressure while evading. 4 Initiative.

Shortbow: Disabling Shot – Cripples with an evade at range (This is essentially what the staff is doing for us right now) but the Shortbow is ranged damage. Maintains Pressure – 4 Initiative

Pistol Whip: Stun followed up with high DPS while evading – Maintains Pressure – 5 initiative

Shadow Strike: Apply torment, shadow step away from your enemy (600 range) and deal damage. P/D is RANGED DAMAGE Maintains pressure 4 initiative.

Debilitating Arc: Minor damage, cripple, evade, immobilize removal. – Lose pressure – 4 Initiative

Were going to have to spend something else just to use that ability, whether its a scorpion wire (Utility) Steal (F1) or a Dodge (50 endurance) to close that gap again. All the other weapon sets #3 evade weapon abilities do not require you to do that.

“Fighting yourself and the enemy at the same time is counter-productive and not synergistic within the profession.” – Kruppe (In reference to a Melee weapon ability that costs initiative that takes you out of melee range.)

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Amante.8109:

I had a couple thoughts on Staff I’d like to share.

People are generally of the opinion right now that Debilitating Arc is of limited usefulness, as the evade back takes you out of melee range. This forces you to spend even more Initiative on Vault or Weakening Charge to get back in after evading if you want to keep doing damage at all. Lest ArenaNet forget, Initiative is a precious resource that Thief never really has enough of.

My suggestion would be to add an effect to Debilitating Arc along these lines: “Your next Weakening Charge within X seconds costs no initiative.”

The only way that DebArc will be used is to give the Theif a breather, meaning when they don’t want to keep doing damage, perhaps heal or cleanse.

What you want is to combo it with other skills, but if you choose to do that, it has to cost you and making other skills cost less will make this skill to powerful because of what it can do.

For the cost of 4 init, you can;
- deals damage
- cleaves upto 3 targets
- evade attack
- gap creator
- break immobilize/cripple
- then heal if you successfully evade

Then you want to make the next gap closer for free? Too much stuff for a cost of 4 initiative don’t you think?

That ability in actuality will cost 8 or more initiative if you stay on staff. Which is 66% of a Thief’s base initiative pool right there. That means to use that combo, you’ll be forced into Trickery. With that it will still cost you over 50% of your initiative just to use those two abilities.

Creating a gap as a DD is counter-productive and initiative does not regenerate nearly as quickly as endurance does (im referring to DD endurance regeneration specifically.) Let’s say it stays the same and we swap weapons to main hand sword or dagger. Infiltrators strike and Heartseeker both cost 3 intitative. So to use that ability then switch weapons will cost you a 10 second weapon swap cooldown and 7 initiative. That is very costly for something Withdraw does for you for no initiative cost with a heal, condi removal, evade and a much larger gap opener. Not to mention only an 18 second cooldown.

Amante has the right idea but the problem with his/her suggestion is that it kind of forces the player to use that strategy. After every Debilitating Arc everyone would use Weakening Charge if they got that reduced initiative cost. Doesn’t really promote different strategies and tactics.

Keep in mind guys these are only a few changes, i’m sure with DD in it’s current state there will be many more to come. So don’t fret!

Karl McLain.5604:

Vault: Reduced initiative cost from 6 to 5. Reduced cast time from 1 second to 3/4 second. note: We’ve discussed leaving the initiative high and giving this ability an evade component at the beginning or end. Feel free to let us know what you think.

Not a bad idea, if it doesn’t seem up to par once that change is implemented can always just go from there. Great work!

PopeUrban.2578:

Fade.5904:

Another idea would be to make the dodges behave differently if you have a target or not.

If you have no target- perform a regular dodge
If you have a target – perform the enhanced dodge and actually move towards your target with all of them.

That should fix any issues changing dash to a shadowstep might bring up pathing wise, it would create a new gap closer, stop you flying off in all directions and it would give you a choice whether to use the enhanced dodges or not depending on the circumstances.

Personally i think this would make the new dodges feel much smoother and look a lot less dumb if your actually traveling towards your target. It would allow you to dodge without doing area damage (for traveling / dodging in shadow refuge/ when stealthed)

I don’t want to move toward my target when I’m using lotus. I might want to dodge away from an AoE without having to hit an extra button and drop my target.
What you’re suggesting would be like taking how clunky and unintuitive they are with the animation delay problems, and making them even more clunky and difficult to use

The whole point is that they add to dodge. You’re suggesting taking what’s good about the DD dodges (that you can customize them so they do more than just dodging) and basically making them worse than actual dodging.

The easiest fix to the dodges is simply to not have them fire effects when you are stealthed, fix the animation and resource use bugs, problem solved.

This is a horrible suggestion.

Not to mention you could forget about using Auto-targeting at that point.

There would some balancing issues that would need to be done here but I do agree, I feel like every build is forced into the trickery tree for its Utility. With Daredevil coming out that means if you want to play Daredevil you get one free trait line option.

No one is going to give up Trickery, and the staff will make that tree even more necessary with how initiative consumptive all of the abilities are.

An easy fix to this would give every trait line some sort of initiative regeneration based on what it specializes. An example would be something like gaining initiative for attacks that critically hit in the Critical Strikes tree.

Shadow Arts tree has Shadow Rejuvination, but that requires a Thief to be in stealth. If we want to open up different build varieties without giving a passive +3 intiative all around, give each tree a initiative regeneration bonus.

I don’t think giving Thieves +3 initiative just because is a good idea. Still need to require a skill cap and not promote spamming.

Edit: Putting initiative regen in multiple lines is not a good idea. Not without restrictions.

Urejt.5648:

I would love small smokefield on staff and better dps on autoatack with some cool effect

If they gave it a smoke field they’d be turning the staff into a two-handed Dagger/Pistol set. Drop the smoke field and the leap on 5 or a dodge.

We’ve already got that, let’s get something new and truly unique with the staff.

These are really good ideas, guys. I see what you mean now about the dodge swap function, definitely would have to be careful about balancing but I don’t think it would be OP as is.

The idea on enhancing all three dodges with a GM trait makes perfect sense. You get the option between F3-F4-F5 swap but each GM applies to all three depending on your needs at the time.

That sounds pretty amazing actually! I hope all of this discussion sparks some creative thinking and ideas at Anet!

You’re still limited by endurance. I have no idea why you believe having all three dodges available would be OP.

Im thinking about this in any combat situation, and I strongly disagree with you. So please, explain in detail why you believe that would be imbalanced.

Don’t confuse having access to all three dodges the same as being able to spam all three dodges. Like you can swap to the dodge, gain full endurance and just spam.

No, I mean you can swap to a particular dodge to fit the situation. You still are very limited, so choose youre dodge wisely. Very similar to what an Ele does when it swaps attunements. On that note, a Revenant as well.

Edit: Unless the dodges utility has changed and I don’t know about it. As they currently are right now, no i don’t think that would be OP at all.

Gray.9041:

Vornollo.5182:

Tonikor.5637:

Bllade.1029:

WHoever suggested turning the three different dodges into an F3-F4-F5 skill. Thats a fantastic idea.

Take dodges out of the grandmaster traits and replace them with something else.

Thank you.

But it seems some forum heroes dont like the idea and think its overpowered… sigh.

It really would nothing more but fair to reimplement the dodges in such a way.
Truly it is quite outrageous to be the only Elite Specialization that has that what makes it stand out from the core spec locked behind Grandmaster Traits.
Like someone noted above, it’s not like the dodges have a lot of synergy between them so I don’t see how this would be overpowered.

Having the GM’s instead do something beneficial to this dodge-swapping, Steal or general Offense/Defense/Utility would be much more solid.

I think the big issue here is that there are two trains of thought being mixed up:

• new dodges shouldn’t be tied to GM traits

• new dodges should all be available.

so while I think most people agree with the first, many – like myself – would be happy(er) with a single selectable revenant-legend-like box which allows us to select one dodge, and so object to the idea of having all three dodges available – not to removing them from the trait line.

(so it’s probably people disagreeing with the details, not the direction)

Maybe an idea where instead of just giving you access to one the dodges, the GM traits greatly enhance a particular dodge you wish to focus on; making it much more powerful.

The way they are now (with some slight adjustments to the animation and mechanics) would be the base dodge you would get between your F3-F4-F5 dodge swap. However, one of those would be your focus and the traits would greatly enhance that particular dodge.

Example might be: “I’m going to need a lot more mobility and condition cleanse, i’m going to spec into dash.” Dash would do what it does now, but that GM trait might give it something like increased range, removal of more conditions on evade. Etc.

Another example: “I think Condi pressure is on the menu for this particular fight, im going to specialize into Lotus Training on this one.” So you’d spec into Lotus training which would enhance the dodge even more so.

At the end of the day you could use multiple dodges, but one of them is going to be your focus.

Jinx.4619:

And dont say its l2p issue im at dragon rank in pvp that mean i know what im doing

No one is going to take this post seriously now.

Amante.8109:

The Elite Chain needs a better animation for the third hit, too. The Warrior Stomp is the best recycled suggestion I’ve heard.

So the first strike dazes right? Then the second strike knocks em into the air?

Animation for the Third strike? How about this…

https://youtu.be/NKDIVq8UMLM?t=11m4s

Make it challenging, please. Or atleast the option to be challenging. And by that I mean mechanics that can be very unforgiving, no more second and third chances that down state allows, no more casual AFK auto attacking dragons give us dynamic fight mechanics that involve more than staying out of red circles and afk spamming auto attacks.

I hate to reference this for I might get shunned but Black Temple raids in Burning Crusade (World of Warcraft) were some of the most difficult, dynamic and straight up fun raids I have EVER been apart of in any MMO.

We died 1000000 times, but when we finally nailed it. There wasn’t a feeling better in the world.

Bllade.1029:

• Channeled Vigor Suggestion – [Insert name change of heal here] - Three part chain. Summersault (front flip) towards your target and evade, heal for a base amount, and cure two conditions. . If you strike a target with this ability deal damage and gain access to [Insert three part chain name here.]

• [Three part chain] – Strike your enemy three times in quick succession, dealing damage, restoring health and endurance. The last strike knocks enemy back for X distance. All three strikes can critically hit.

This idea combines Withdrawals mobility and condition cleanse, with Channeled Vigors 3 pulse heal and endurance regen mechanics. The difference is the heal does physical damage and rewards you for landing those hits.

You would still gain the heal and the condition cleanse if you didn’t hit a target. So you could essentially use it just for the evade and mobility, but the heal promotes staying in the fight and maintaining pressure.

Can still be blocked, dodged etc. So there is a skill cap there, won’t just give you everything for sitting still for 2 1/2 seconds.

This was part of the wall of text I wrote on page 5.

The point isn’t the utility of the heal. The point is does it mesh well with the mechanics and theme of the profession. The heal is counter-productive in a sense that in order to get the FULL benefit of the heal you have to channel for over 2 seconds in the middle of a fight and be at full endurance.

The core mechanic of the class is about using endurance. That would be like rewarding ele’s for not switching attunements.

Also, if you think about it a DD that doesn’t use endurance won’t need to heal because obviously it’s not taking any damage. If it’s condition damage you’ll still burn endurance to cleanse with the trait.

That heals makes no sense at all when you could have Withdraw or Hide in Shadows.

Also the tooltip reads that heal as physical and I think thats a great idea, make the heal offensive and physical. Reward the player for landing strikes on the enemy doing damage while at the same time sustaining.

WHoever suggested turning the three different dodges into an F3-F4-F5 skill. Thats a fantastic idea.

Take dodges out of the grandmaster traits and replace them with something else.

Hello Everyone,

I wanted to offer some constructive feedback and maybe some suggestions on the staff as well as the Daredevil’s traits and mechanics over all.

Just wanted to say I love the direction Daredevil went in as far as the overall theme goes. Before I begin, I just wanted to thank all of the people who helped collaborate these ideas and I hope they may be of use to spark some creative thinking in future changes for the Daredevil!

Note: All of these suggestions were the result of the collaboration of multiple players in the Guild Wars 2 community. These suggestions were also made under certain assumptions:

• Staff was intended to be a synergetic weapon with the Daredevil specialization.
• Daredevil is intended to use less stealth as defensive means and instead use more evading and crowd control abilities for survival.
• Daredevil was intended to have more hard CC than any other trait line available to Thief.
• The physical utilities are intended to synergize well with Daredevil mechanics.
• Daredevil should be effective in both PvE as well as PvP.
• Daredevil specialization should be flexible with any build combination and not force players into a certain trait lines due to mechanics or the nature of the specialization.
• Daredevil’s combat style relies on speed, combos, evades and crowd controls.

I apologize if any of these assumptions do not coincide with what was intended for the specialization.

Staff Suggestions

• Staff Auto Attack – As the primary source of consistent damage for the staff, we felt it left the fragile Daredevil too exposed in a combat situation to justify the damage it does. We thought it would be nice to play on the theme of the agile physical damage dealer and reflect that within the auto-attack itself.

• Staff Auto Attack Suggestion: Three-chain auto attack. First strike deals two stacks of vulnerability. Second strike deals an additional two stacks of vulnerability. Third Strike includes an evade and at the end of the strike grants quickness for x amount of seconds. Another idea was, instead of quickness, inflict a short duration daze.

The quickness would help the thief chain combo into other abilities, promoting a much faster style of combat. The daze would offer a chance to interrupt an incoming ability and synergize well with Pulmonary Impact.

• Staff 2: Weakening Charge – Historically, the second weapon ability on many Thief melee weapons generally offered some sort of mobility combined with damage or a condition (Heartseeker, Infiltrators Strike, etc.) We thought this ability should also offer mobility along with an additional effect. The overall mechanic of this ability was great, just needed a few adjustments to help synergize with the rest of the staff abilities.

• Weakening Charge Suggestion – Dash towards your target quickly. Upon reaching your target immobilize for X amount of second(s), inflict weakness, and deal damage. Enemies you pass through to reach your target also take damage but do not get immobilized. They do, however, gain weakness for X amount of second(s). Gain stability for each enemy struck with your attack for X amount of seconds. Only one target can be immobilized by this ability.

The thought process behind this was the fact that the Daredevil is expected to be amidst the combat. With stealth not being the primary source of defense it is important that it has some sort of skill based defense to stay in a fight for a longer period of time. As it stands now, the animation is too slow without an evade. The immobilize on your target would set you up for potential combo’s and the speed of the ability would allow you to navigate a battlefield quickly.

We imagined a Daredevil weaving through a combat situation very quickly to find those vulnerable targets and apply strong pressure quickly. The stability would also be a skill cap in a sense that you must strike a target with the skill in order to gain the stability effect, the more targets available and struck the more reward with stability you get. Whirl finisher could be removed.

An example of the speed of the animation can be seen here: https://youtu.be/vHNOLytV6hU?t=38s

• Staff 3: Debilitating Arc – We really like this abilities mechanics and believe it is definitely in the right direction to assist with survivability. The only issue we have is the fact that the range of the roll-back is very short. For professions who are hard to slow down (Warriors for example), the cripple would be less effective and they could easily close the gap from an ability that consumes four initiative.

• Debilitating Arc Suggestion – Strike enemies in front you stunning them for X amount of second(s), evade and roll backwards removing any immobilization effects. Increase the roll-back distance.

We wanted to suggest replacing the cripple with a hard CC to compliment the theme of an interrupting thief. This goes well with Pulmonary Impact, and also helps the DD control the fight and interrupt abilities that may otherwise have been fatal. We felt the roll-back distance should be increased simply because of how easy it would be for the enemy to close that gap for an ability that costs four initiative.

• Staff 4: Dust Strike – There were many different opinions about this ability. Many agreed that some sort of ranged defense combined with the blind utility of this ability would be a great change. Others believed it should be changed completely to a control ability that offered CC. However, everyone agreed that this ability was far too costly in terms of initiative for the utility gained.

• Dust Strike Suggestion 1 – Leg Sweep: Sweep the legs out from under your enemies in an area in front of you knocking them to the ground for x amount of seconds. Enemies already on the ground cannot be knocked down again consecutively. Enemies not knocked down are crippled.

An example of this technique is shown here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_XrjRTOJv4&feature=youtu.be&t=14s

• Dust Strike Suggestion 2 – Spin 360 degrees with your staff and create a ring of dust around you, incoming projectiles are absorbed and enemies that enter or exit the dust ring are blinded for X amount of seconds.

• Dust Strike Suggestion 3 – Spin 360 degrees with your staff and create a ring of dust that absorbs projectiles. Enemies directly hit with the staff take damage and are inflicted with AoE weakness and vulnerability. Enemies that exit or enter the ring are blinded for X amount of second(s).

There are many that believe ranged defense for DD shouldn’t be only composed of spamming dodges to close the gap and get within melee range of your enemy. With the lack of stealth, damage- based- long range abilities would be very difficult to counter while in the middle of a combat situation. Suggestion 2 and Suggestion 3 would provide both utility in melee range as well as offer protection from outside sources of damage. This would also add to team utility.

• Staff 5: Vault – The damage potential of this ability is amazing. The only major issue many of us were having was landing vault due to its long hang time. If it wasn’t blocked it was easily dodged or interrupted. A line of warding for example would stop that ability even though it appeared you leaped over it. It’s usefulness in a PvE setting is fantastic for good AoE damage. However, in a PvP setting, the ability is extremely difficult to justify using given its initiative cost and how easily it was to avoid. Many of us would find ourselves using it strictly for mobility, rather than actually using it for damage.

• Vault Suggestion 1 – Decrease the cast time and initiative cost down from 5 to 4.

• Vault Suggestion 2 – Leave it the way it is but make it unblockable and decrease cast time.

• Vault Suggestion 3 – Jump into the air and instantly teleport above the targeted area, after a X second(s) delay, smash the ground with your staff dealing heavy AoE damage.

We thought a nice number for Vault Suggestion 3 would be 1/2 a second delay before bringing the staff down. The teleport would allow vault to be much less predictable but the delay would still offer some sort of time for an enemy to react. This is not a shadow step, simply a way to make the ability much easier to land and at the same time add to the fluidity of DD gameplay. You would still be susceptible to control effects during the cast.

Utility Skills and Elite

• Heal Skill – Channeled Vigor – Although the idea behind the heal is good in terms of reward, there are many better options available to the thief in its current state. A couple of major problems we noticed are as follows:

1. The heal yields a greater health reward if the players endurance is full. This is counter-productive for a specialization who’s core mechanic is about using endurance.
2. The channel time of the heal leaves an enormous window for it to be interrupted, and leaves the DD too vulnerable in a combat situation to justify using over other heals available.
3. Many believed the animation did not properly represent the profession. All other professions get unique animations that differentiate from them from their counterparts. (Ex. Overloading attunements, Berserker burst effects, Reaper death shroud.) This animation is almost exactly the same as Elementalists ether renewal and does not fit well with the theme of a fast-paced, evasive, hand-to -hand combat oriented fighter.

• Channeled Vigor Suggestion – [Insert name change of heal here] – Three part chain. Summersault (front flip) towards your target and evade, heal for a base amount, and cure two conditions. . If you strike a target with this ability deal damage and gain access to [Insert three part chain name here.]

• [Three part chain] – Strike your enemy three times in quick succession, dealing damage, restoring health and endurance. The last strike knocks enemy back for X distance. All three strikes can critically hit.

This suggestion we believe is a fantastic alternative in terms of what the mechanic of heal abilities have done for Thieves in the past. For the most part heals have put the Thief into a defensive position (Ex. Hide In Shadows, Withdraw). This heal would be a fantastic opportunity for thieves to continue pressure on the enemy while at the same time sustaining themselves. This would differentiate the DD’s heal by being the only gap closer offensive heal in the game with a hard CC at the end of a chain. We thought the knock back would be justified if a player managed to land all three strikes, further promoting the theme of the DD and at the same time setting up the DD for the next attack. This would also remove the long channel and allow the DD to time it’s heal strikes for maximum benefit. There would be a limited amount of time available for the chain to be used before it went on cooldown.

An example of a front flip or a somersault can be seen here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PmUDDgVKSI

This link demonstrates a martial art combo in rapid succession:
https://youtu.be/QyaVZKkmgqk?t=10s

• Utility Skill – Bandits Defense – This ability is a great addition to the DD. A short CD stun break followed by a skill block and knock down works extremely well with the DD traits and theme. Since it is skill based, damage could be increased a bit on counter attack.

• Utility Skill – Impairing Daggers – Since there are three individual daggers that each inflict a different condition, we suggest maybe increasing the projectile speed to match Distracting Daggers. Also to promote a much faster paced fighting style making impairing daggers instant cast would really help the DD combo its abilities together for maximum effectiveness.

• Utility Skill – Distracting Daggers – Remove the ICD between each dagger thrown, and make them instant cast to promote a fast paced combat style. This would also, like impairing daggers, help synergize with other abilities via combo’s.

• Utility Skill – Fist Flurry – This ability took far too long to channel even with the CC’s available to the DD. Many of us believed the utility of this ability would be justified if the cast time of the entire ability, including palm strike was reduced greatly.

• Elite Skill – Impact Strike – There was much debate on if this ability was worth taking given it’s current cooldown. The idea behind this ability is that it offers two hard CC’s followed by an instant stomp if your enemy goes down. One of the biggest issues with this elite is that it forces the DD to wait towards the end of the fight to use if you want full effectiveness of the ability. Basilisk venom, Thieves guild and Daggerstorm, can be used at any time during combat, due to their mechanics. This also is taken into consideration in a PvE environment where NPC’s do not have a down state.

• Impact Strike Suggestion – The first two chain abilities remain the same. Finishing Blow – Deal a downward strike on your foe. Downed enemies struck with this ability are finished. If enemy is not instantly finished, Finishing Blow is a garunteed crit and knocks target down for X amount of second(s). Reduce cast time on all three chain abilities. Increase damage on Final Blow.

A variation would be to cut the cooldown in half if an enemy player is not finished, but not include the knockdown on the third chain nor the garunteed crit.

This would promote using the ability at any time during combat. It would also bring more utility for both PvE and PvP.

Daredevil Traits

• Minor Adept Trait: Weakening Strikes – When compared to the other two options in the tree this trait was pretty insignificant due to the fact it would only affect one target for 5 seconds before it went on a 10 second ICD.

• Weakening Strikes Suggestion – Remove the 10 second ICD and give the trait a % chance to proc on critical hit. This would allow the AoE nature of the staff to apply weakness to more than one target while amidst combat. Adding an offensive way for the Daredevil to defend itself.

Minor Master Trait – Driven Fortitude – The sustain granted by this ability was too minuscule to notice. Conditions applied negated the effects of this ability, especially if one of those conditions were poison. This trait is designed to offer some sustain for the Daredevil through skillful play, meaning evading an attack. Since you must evade an incoming attack to gain the benefit of this trait the reward should be higher than traits that give sustain passively without any action (Example: Shadow Rejuvination).

• Driven Fortitude Suggestion – Remove healing power scaling with the trait itself. Increase the heal from evade substantially. Keep the ICD the way it is.

This would better reward a skillful dodge and offer much better sustain. We recommend at least doubling the base value of the heal if not tripling it.

• Minor Master Trait – Escapist Absolution – This goes back to what was said about Driven Fortitudes skill play. In order to gain the benefit from this ability, you must evade an attack not simply dodge. With that being said, since it has an ICD the benefit from this skill should be greater than that of a non-skill passive trait (Example: Shadows Embrace.)

• Escapist Absolution Suggestion 1 – Increase the number of conditions removed per evade. Keep ICD the same, or remove ICD and keep trait as is.

• Escapist Absolution Suggestion 2 – Gain x amount of seconds of resistance when you evade an attack and remove one condition. ICD for X amount of second(s).

• Major Grandmaster Trait – Lotus Training – The utility of this ability is great, the only issue anyone mentioned was the fact the animation is the same as a death blossom. There were a couple of thoughts in regards to if people wanted to play a condition daredevil that the ability should prioritize the targeted enemy and not be random within a certain radius.

• Major Grandmaster Trait – Unhindered Combatant – Most people felt the utility provided was good. The only suggestion was to increase the speed at which the animation goes off while still maintaining the same range. This is very similar to what we suggested for Staff 2 earlier in this post.

• Major Grandmaster Trait – Bounding Dodger – This was very difficult to land and use effectively. It also shares the same animation as bound, so it is difficult for an enemy to differentiate if someone is using bound or dodging. For balance reasons we feel the animation for either bound or this dodge would be a welcomed change.

We were not really sure how difficult it would be to program and animate this suggestion, so if it’s unrealistic I apologize in advance.

• Bounding Dodge Suggestion – Instead of the damage occuring at the end of the dodge roll, damage to enemies could happen at anytime during the channel of the dodge. An active hit box would allow you to do damage no matter your targets position as long as you made contact with the enemy during the dodge. Enemies could only be struck once per dodge, or multiple times but with reduced damage.

As it stands now Bounding Dodge is very predictable for an enemy and at the same time very very difficult to land. If this is going to remain a Grandmaster trait, we felt it really needed to be spruced up a bit. If the ability wasn’t dodged completely it was blocked and for a Grandmaster trait it was rendered quite ineffective in combat. An open hit box where you could strike your enemy at any time during the dodge would make it not only much less predictable to avoid, but also much easier to land in general.

Last but certainly not least we had some suggestions on Steal and the utility it could potentially provide for a Daredevil since one wasn’t released for the DD this time around . Before I get into it, we felt like every other specialization had some sort of distinguishing factor and upgrade to their F1 ability (Ex. Berserker Adrenal abilities, Reaper Death Shroud, Tempest Overload Attunement). I also want to mention that the suggestions we created are completely ignorant on how difficult it would be to actually animate and program, so again I want to apologize if our suggestions are unrealistic.

F1 Ability

• Steal Suggestion 1 – Steal a random utility from your target. This ability does not disable your targets utility skill, but copies it instead. Healing skills and Elite skill cannot be copied. If target does not have a utility gain x amount of quickness instead. The Utility stolen does not have to be currently equipped, any utility available to that profession can be copied.

• Steal Suggestion 2 – Steal x amount of endurance from your target. Replenishing your own endurance pool. Cure a condition per endurance bar you currently have.

Naturally some utilities that would require pets or gave access to things like kits would not be feasible for a Daredevil to use (Example: Ranger Search and Rescue, Engineer Tool Kit) with that being said a pool of abilities that could be stolen would have to be created that a DD could actually use and be available to be copied. We weren’t quite sure how the mechanic would work with something that required a specific type of energy like Revenants utilities for example, unless the energy cost is removed. The idea to grant quickness on steal for targets with no utilities was founded on the basis that NPC’s do not have utilities skill pools to choose from.

That sums up our take from this Daredevil beta weekend! Thank you Arena Net for all of these fantastic new additions to the game. I know I speak on behalf of many players when I say that were are excited to play HoT and look forward to rolling out all of these fun specializations on October 23rd!

If you have any questions, comments or suggestions feel free to post on here or contact me in-game!