I for one am looking forward to corrupting the hell out of revenants.
So they can just swap mallyx, get a full heal + resistance, and throw all those condis right back on YOUR WHOLE TEAM?
Mallyx reves will eat condi users/teams up hard-core.
This is what I’m most afraid of. It really looks like any condition based build won’t stand a chance against a revenant. I don’t want to overreact as the class isn’t even out yet, but I hope they implement it correctly (as in: there will still be ways to outplay revenants on condi builds).
Currently, there is no iteration of a sb build that I would consider viable. The reason I say this is because lb > sb for power (I think we all agree on that) and because although sb does have a lot of sustained pressure, you ALWAYS are pulling bleeds to the top of the clear list so if you manage to get a good number of stacks on someone they should just cleanse it. The issue with a/d is that you have to be a bit riskier in terms of positioning for team fights (but if the fight gets too big you can just bail and go 1 v 1). Which is why I think a/d can work because you can go 1 v 1 most of the time and because you don’t bring as much to a teamfight as a ranger with a sb compared to any of the other 3 cele classes. So if you can’t 1 v 1… why are you playing condi then?
This is what I have been messing with. From my experience:
Beats:
Other rangers (condi v condi is often determined by RNGesus).
Elementalist (out pressures them on point and out sustains).
Engineer (easy)
Warrior (shoutbow can be tough but so far only the best have just completely shut it down).
Necro (as long as you dodge the transfers)
Mesmer (easy)
Thief (just gotta land some splitblade or entangle).
Guardians (easy)
There are some iterations of this build that I think would be superior to what I have posted.
Is the oakheart salve/settler’s amulet combo really worth it? I’m currently running a carrion amulet with poison master as the WS grandmaster trait, but the healing power route is interesting. Also, what is your opinion as a bird pet in this build? I’ve been trying it out lately and have found it to be quite useful to keep pressure on squishier classes when LOS’ing.
Are you really gonna make a whine thread like this whenever you have a bad experience in PvP? This is the third one on the first page of the PvP forum alone.
I share your hope of more frequent balance updates. The revenant seems cool so far, I just hope they implement everything in a balanced way. Mallyx stance + resistance makes it look like they’ll be near immune to conditions, let’s hope that’s not the case.
I saw the title of this thread and hoped there might be a productive discussion about something like fixing ranger pets, short bow, adjusting main hand sword, etc.
Then I saw who the op was and realized it was just another ranger qq thread.
Haha, I went through exactly the same steps. I’d call it funny that the OP thinks it’s “evident that the ranger is OP in it’s current state” but after reading through his other thread it’s more sad than funny. All this time spent kittening and moaning by the OP could be spent learning to play the game and there wouldn’t be any of these stupid threads, but yeah there you go.
Why exactly would this skill need an obvious animation? It’s not like all the damage from rapid fire goes in the first hit. If you’re paying attention you might get hit by the first two, maybe three arrows(20-30% of the damage, less if you count the vuln stacks) and you can dodge right after that. On top of that, the skill has a destinct sound you can recognize and it’s not that hard to predict (You ate a point blank shot? Well, chances are rapid fire is coming now.). Honestly even if you’re half asleep you can still avoid over half the damage this skill does just by reacting to the damage numbers showing up, and then I haven’t even touched on line of sight yet. There are so many ways to avoid damage from this skill, if people would learn & adapt instead of making threads like this the forum would be an all around better place.
The difference here is that Condition cleanse helps against almost every class in the game. Reflect works well against LB Rangers. If you can’t see the differences here, I don’t know what to tell you. The ENTIRE kittenING GAME shouldn’t have to adapt itself around one class. That is a sign that one class is doing something it probably shouldn’t be doing.
Sigh. This is why we can’t have good things.
The problem isn’t everyone having to adapt themselves around one class. The problem is everyone has been able to ignore that one class for so long. Suddenly that class is buffed so that the abilities it brings to the game now make a difference, and people are in shock because they can’t ignore it anymore.
Basically, anything added to a game which forces you to adapt is a good thing. That’s telling you Anet has successfully added a new and different challenge or mechanic for you learn to overcome. It’s increased the breadth of the game.
You complain that Reflect only works well against LB rangers. That’s probably a valid complaint, but then you incorrectly conclude that it’s a reason to nerf rangers. The correct conclusion is that Anet needs to add more skills to other classes which require reflect to defend against, thus making it equally as important to carry reflect as it is to carry a condition cleanse. That is balance. What’s the point of even having reflect in the game if you never need to carry it because all builds vulnerable to it are non-threatening and thus can be ignored?
As I said in another thread, balance isn’t “I can run around with my preferred build and not have to worry about anything because my build can defend against anything.” That is horribly unbalanced. Balance is “My build has strong defense against certain things but not others, so I have to be careful to play to my strengths and avoid situations which exploit my weaknesses.” Rock, paper, scissors would be a stupid game if scissors were so weak paper could always ignore them.
Extremely accurate and very eloquently put. Anyone who’s still crying OP should look at this post.
I’m really hoping this was accidental somehow. Just as I was getting more faith in their balancing of the game, they pull something completely stupid like this. What, were rangers pushing other classes out of dungeon runs or something? This makes no sense at all, man.
While the skill sounds cool, there’s already way too many low skillfloor AI builds out there in my opinion. Putting more of them in the game is the last thing they should be doing.
If a cat is black, wether you like it or not i’m gonna say the cat is black. If it’s a l2p issue, wether you like it or not i’m gonna call it a l2p issue.
Sure, but be consistent with your calls. What you’re doing now is calling the black cat black, but you’re calling the black dog white because it suits your interests better.
Learning to deal with the sword rooting is going to be very useful if you plan on doing dungeons later. Other than that, I usually just take mobility weapons when I level alts (for ranger that’d be gs and s/wh).
Mate, you need to take a step back, read the entire thread again and try to objectively look at things. It’s utterly ridiculous how hypocritcal you’re being in your argueing. When someone provides you with an arguement in favor of stealth tracking (i.e. it’s one of the very few counters to stealth) you shoot it down saying it’s overpowered, it’s a faulty mechanic, etc. At the same time, you defend stealth itself by saying not being able to deal with stealth outside of said trackig is a L2P issue. You do this for every arguement made. You can’t have it both ways, man.
I’m not trying to insult you, but it’s very, very obvious that you lack experience with non-stealth classes. If you’d play them and then look back at what you said in this thread, you’d realize the things you’re saying are adverse to eachother.
“however, “good” warriors are generally at a disadvantage versus equally skilled players on other classes, and this is a point that’s rarely addressed.”
You still see warriors at the highest level of tPvP (where the “good” warriors are) and I can tell you they’re still pretty dominant. The gap isn’t as big but they’re definitely not at a disadvantage.
I’ve talked to a lot of good players/watched their streams and all of them agreed that warriors are still too strong, even at their level of play which basically means there is no disadvantage.
A lower skill ceiling doesn’t necessarily mean you’re at a disadvantage, only that it takes less skill to play the profession at the highest level.
Anyway, I’m looking forward to the next patch and hope they nerf the right things and/or increase the skill ceiling.
To add to this, most of the top PvP teams even use 2 warriors (out of 5 total players).
I couldn’t agree more with the OP with regards to balancing to the lowest common denominator, but I really don’t think warriors are at a disadvantage at high levels of PvP. On the contrary even, they’re arguably still one of the strongest classes at that level (the most used class in any case).
Its literally impossible to win a discussion vs people like Introp. No matter how far from the truth their make believe reality is. They will spin it around and create logic out of nonsense.
I remember their was a similar thread with a poster similar to introp. At the end ppl posted a duel video between Caed and Anastarcis. Two of the best, most epxerienced and highest rated people in the world.
You know what the guy said? “That thief sucks and is a typical player that complains about how weak thief is”.
You don’t win discussion. ever. If you have your side of argument, you can argue with other side. ARGUE, not win. You can reach some consensus on some points, but not on whole thing, because side already walk in with their experience.
Now while you think that you thinking your side of argument is complete truth is ok, and me thinking the same is wrong.
By the way your truth is far from reality for me. GOES BOTH WAYS
I offered to agree on disagree, yet you cant back off, really need to win on dem internets?
You made all that talking, that was your side of argument with no proof
Im actually done here.
You kids cant understand that other side could have their position and think that your view on the things are superior to others.
I just took the time to read through this entire discussion and holy kitten introp, stop acting like you have ANY idea of what works in PvP already. You have never played a single game of solo queue/team queue yet you claim to know everything when it comes to PvP. Locuz was making some good points and he was doing it in a rational way; all you’ve done is dance around the subject and make kitten up.
I don’t usually respond to discussions like this, but kitten it this had to be said.
sorry to dissapoint, ive done solo arena.
You having same positions means you see locuz points are good for you. Its as simple as it is. I dont know everything, i know enough to call out people’s bullkitten. didnt dance around subject at all, it was a lengthty argument with OP, which is not locuz.
You’re dancing around it again. If anyone tries to make some good points about warriors being too strong, you just wave it off and say they do it because it’s good for them. You don’t take a look at what they have to say, you don’t consider if their point of view might actually be nuanced, you just say they’re biased. That’s it.
Locuz has actually made some very good points about warriors at high level play; you decide to ignore that and say he’s biased. That’s all you’ve done in this thread. Taking a look at your post history, this doesn’t surprise me really. The ONLY people who still argue that warriors aren’t too strong at the moment are warrior players who never/very rarely play other classes (just look at the warrior subforum). You’re making it painfully obvious that you belong to this group.
You haven’t played enough arena games to even show up on the leaderboard in percentages man. If you’ve played 5 arena games before, you might as well have played 0 because you won’t have played against any decent opponents.
I won’t be replying to this thread anymore now. I think at this point most people realize that warriors are too strong. The question that remains is how much toning down they need, not if they need toning down. The OP’s ‘experiment’ also didn’t really prove anything or add anything to the warrior discussion, so this thread is moot.
Its literally impossible to win a discussion vs people like Introp. No matter how far from the truth their make believe reality is. They will spin it around and create logic out of nonsense.
I remember their was a similar thread with a poster similar to introp. At the end ppl posted a duel video between Caed and Anastarcis. Two of the best, most epxerienced and highest rated people in the world.
You know what the guy said? “That thief sucks and is a typical player that complains about how weak thief is”.
You don’t win discussion. ever. If you have your side of argument, you can argue with other side. ARGUE, not win. You can reach some consensus on some points, but not on whole thing, because side already walk in with their experience.
Now while you think that you thinking your side of argument is complete truth is ok, and me thinking the same is wrong.
By the way your truth is far from reality for me. GOES BOTH WAYS
I offered to agree on disagree, yet you cant back off, really need to win on dem internets?
You made all that talking, that was your side of argument with no proof
Im actually done here.
You kids cant understand that other side could have their position and think that your view on the things are superior to others.
I just took the time to read through this entire discussion and holy kitten introp, stop acting like you have ANY idea of what works in PvP already. You have never played a single game of solo queue/team queue yet you claim to know everything when it comes to PvP. Locuz was making some good points and he was doing it in a rational way; all you’ve done is dance around the subject and make kitten up.
I don’t usually respond to discussions like this, but kitten it this had to be said.
This should be fun!
Name: Obscured By Clouds
Server: Desolation
Preferred game type: A bit of everything. At the moment I’m playing PvP mostly because I’m close to the champion hunter title, but I’m up for any gametype.
I’m off to bed now, but I’ll be able to accept an invite tomorrow.
In my opinion, they should do away pets as a permanently out component and instead make them similar to Mesmer phantasms that we select like Engie utilities.
I’ve also suggested this on multiple occasions, dating back to almost a year ago. I think this would be the perfect solution, but let’s be realistic: it’s probably way too much work to ever happen.
I think the signet changes (especially traited) and the changes to opening strike are exactly what the ranger needs in PvE and/or WvWvW, but it would be way too strong in PvP. Other than that, I like your suggestions. Thanks for taking the time to make this, you have some very nice ideas and you didn’t go over the top with the buffs. Anet should definitely take a look at this.
I think Khayoss has a good understanding of what’s wrong with the ranger class. He wrote it down in a thread (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Complete-Ranger-class-suggestions) without being overly dramatic but while still pointing out the major flaws. You should have a few good questions when you go through his thread, but for me the most important question you can ask is what role they have in mind for the ranger.
Yes, we care about the forums. We also care about all the classes equally.
If this is true, can we then please have some communication from your team? As you can see, your community is feeling very angry, a bit mislead, and extremely confused. It would be very helpful for one of you to sit down and detail to us what your actual vision of this class is. Right now we can’t really find anything we are better than anyone else at, no role that we can fill that others can’t fill better. People are actually being turned away from parties in some cases because of their class, because the vision of what role the ranger could fill in any group setting is very cloudy.
All we have to go on is a months old developer quote saying that Ranger is probably the most broken class, and the writeup on your professions page on the main site. The skills/traits given along with the adjustments to traits and weapons over the past 9 months does not reflect in even a small way the class that is presented in that write up. So clearly that descriptions is wrong. In it’s place, we need a description of either what we are, or what we are going to be after you are done carving us up.
And we would really appreciate some comments on these pet changes as well as the absolutely crippling problems many of us have with pets in larger encounters in WvW. How does ANet feel about these problems, and do they even view them as such? Do you plan to address them?
Even if the answer is “We don’t have an overarching vision, we feel that you are as powerful as you need to be and that your role is fulfilled. Live with it.”, it’s better to know where we stand so that those of us who are angry and disappointed can move on either to a different class or a different game rather than sitting around wondering what happens next…
This. I think this is a well worded version of what the ranger community wants. If the devs respond to one more post on the ranger subforum, please let it be to this post.
This post is a little poorly phrased, Puandro :p I don’t think you’re bringing the message across that you intended to. That aside, your videos are what got me into WvW roaming on my ranger and I love the mobile playstyle. I haven’t had the chance to test it yet since the update, so I’m glad it still works =) Are you going to try 30 NM for the shout trait?
I don’t think the complaining is baseless, to be honest. This patch was really bad for rangers, not only for what they did, but mostly for what they didn’t do. They made big promises about multiple builds becoming viable, traitlines being changed, etc. I think a lot of people got their hopes up because of these promises (I know I did), but in the end it was an utter disappointment.
He explained it pretty clearly, I don’t know what part you don’t understand… Being carried: your team is doing the most of the work, you’re not doing anything vital.
While this might be true, I do think rangers can be used effectively in dungeons, just not nearly as effectively as just about any other class. Personal skill is a big factor in this.
I agree, more or less. I don’t think they have any idea where they want to go with the ranger; their excuse for keeping rangers so weak offensively is that they have a pet to do damage too, and now they nerf the pet damage. They have to make up their minds, what will it be? Rangers who deal decent damage through their own weapons but have useless pets, or rangers who’s damage is very mediocre at best but have decent pets? If these patch notes are accurate, both the ranger’s damage and the pet’s damage is going to be abysmal.
