Guild Wars 2

there are million eles, they all running the same build (ok, they can put 10 in air or earth, kinda a choice i guess) and they are all pros.
make an ele you become a pro instantly. make a thief and you gotta know everything there is to know about this game and you’ll be able to draw one of the million eles.

SOOOO BALANCED

Debsylvania.7396:

Has it been verified that a name change would remove a player from your followers or contacts list?

negative
my account and names were changed by anet moderators, didn’t do anything to follower list. I changed toon names myself after the contract came out, didn’t do anything to the lists either.

veil wasn’t as powerful before they took out culling since it just adds a patch of FOW to a huge patch of FOW anyway. Now it’s one of the only temporary FOW in play.

you see people displace more since culling fix. Before those were places of unknown, under frog of war (no-render) and displacing into places without knowing what’s there was just too much a gamble.

frontline tactics on a medium-large scale is basically a new thing to WVW. nice change indeed.

name tags are horizontal, toons are vertically oriented.
Which guy was unidentifiable on the first ss?

perhaps if you wanted less clutter, take the XXX server invader red banner off
make the title line less opaque, but that will make fighting some classes (pets, clones) harder…

it’s fine the way it is. you don’t need to click when zerging. If the engagement was smaller, they wouldn’t be in the way.

There’s no way these name tags interfered with fighting in any way. All the info currently displayed are useful, they give you a little idea of who this guy you were fighting against was. In fact, they are necessary for properly IDing targets in a mixed confrontation.

bottom line, people are just making up excuses for their incompetence. Just like all that QQ on thief forum. Should probably look into the blizzard franchises if you wanted care bear stuff….

All these titleless scrubs afraid of people seeing who you really were?

KEEP SHOWING THE TITLES

death blossom mobility lol

but we dodged a bullet again? weeeeeee

still bugged, no bonus from trait when stealthed from leap finishing smoke combo field
no benefits

still stuck at bargaining? most had moved onto acceptance already….

it’s tomorrow already
where da patch. im still culling like a tragedy

post must be 15 letters

Mrbig.8019:

Oni.5429:

I’m very happy that they’ll hit mug, such a kitten trait.

But they wont hit ele heals.

gg no +1 on close will work.

Altough i agree mug is lame, burst is the only thing making thieves at least “fine” in serious tPvP.

Thieves suck in 1vs1.

Thieves can’t control a node.

Thieves can’t force a decap when alone, due to stealth.

Even if thieves are able to solo bunker guards, it takes so much time that the roamer will be able to come back even if he’s on the other side of the map and kill him in 2 spells.

Can you understand that current thief can’t afford a damage nerf without being totally removed from competitive play ?

Add this to the fact that the thief is basically the only “counter” to cheese S/D bunker eles, and you can figure out the outcome.

ummm, everything you said was be es, every word of the post.
thieves are just ultra bad in the hands of bads

Teamkiller.4315:

Brassnautilus.2941:

so many bads, target other thieves lol.
Among all the mirror fights, thieves produce most draws. Never target a thief.

at the present, all necros and warriors are sure kills, tanky mesmer easy, dps mesmer more of a gamble if time was limited.
glass guardian, unless very very good, will take no more than 30sec, next to that bow rangers and condi engi. Ele with staff aren’t often seen in tourneys, but if you find one, merry Christmas to you then.

d/d or s/d ele with 0/10/0/30/30 and gs evade rangers are draws. bunker engi can’t be brought down without stuns, and bunker guardians will take a while. These draw fights should be avoided unless absolutely necessary or you get to double.

Well this would depend on your BUILD wouldn’t it?!?

I assume you’re talking about D/D thief. In that case, thief vs thief do not produce lots of draws. It ends really fast because they are both squishy and both do a ton of damage, the only thing separating them from death is their stealth. So whoever’s stealth wears off first is usually the first to go.

And it happens VERY often. I’ve seen it firsthand.

I have no clue what you say about necros being sure kills. They’re definitely more difficult than most of the other classes you listed.

Warriors are again, not sure kills but gambles. They output a ton of damage and can easily one shot a thief with axe f1. Not to mention their wide array of stuns.

No clue about thief vs mesmer.

Glass guardian will take shorter than 30 seconds, most likely. They share the same base health as the thief, so if they’re glass, they’re going down to one combo. Proper bunker guardians are, as you mentioned, unkillable 1v1.

Trap rangers counter thieves.

D/D eles give thieves a lot of trouble as well. Even bunker eles can dish out a crapton of damage.

doesn’t really matter build/setup i think. dagger has the highest auto possibility is the basis of evaluation, and d/d d/p are the same on that.
the fundamental “problem” is that this dagger auto dmg isn’t enough to overcome the healing or mitigation of some the builds out there, and force fights into draw (or draw within limited window), which is unbalanced IMHO because welding a dagger in mainhand was supposed to make us supreme in single target games.

umm, mesmer…. both d/d and d/p can do fine against dps mesmer (tank mesmers are jokes we don’t need to consider them). Produce stealth to give you time so you could identify the real target properly. Other than that, keep in mind that only the purple clone (phantom) does realistic dmg.

necro is sure kill for thieves that are immue to condi. again, either d/d or d/p. Maybe even more of a joke to good d/d thieves because there are so many things to hit for cnd. If a thief has problem against a single necro, he simple doesn’t understand how to fight them, by either not understanding necro’s mechanism, or his own.

so many bads, target other thieves lol.
Among all the mirror fights, thieves produce most draws. Never target a thief.

at the present, all necros and warriors are sure kills, tanky mesmer easy, dps mesmer more of a gamble if time was limited.
glass guardian, unless very very good, will take no more than 30sec, next to that bow rangers and condi engi. Ele with staff aren’t often seen in tourneys, but if you find one, merry Christmas to you then.

d/d or s/d ele with 0/10/0/30/30 and gs evade rangers are draws. bunker engi can’t be brought down without stuns, and bunker guardians will take a while. These draw fights should be avoided unless absolutely necessary or you get to double.

Authority.6145:

There will always be this thought at the back of my mind that a team comp in higher SPvP ratings is truly better off not to have a thief but have something else. I just do not think or believe thief blends well with groups apart from other games that I have played that a thief dwells perfectly well with healers or support units (buffs givers).

Because most thieves are garbage. Either spamming heartseeker/deathblossom, or betting on baslisk venom and mug for a kill. They hardly represent top thieves, and if you haven’t seen the good ones it just meant you didn’t have the MMR to see them.

A good thief can reliably produce 1v1 kills, or hang 2 opponent players off points, giving his team 4v3 advantage. Can back cap 200 points (especially on maps like spirit), or down half of opponent’s team within couple of seconds in a gang fight , none of these functions can be reliably performed by any other classes in highend tournies.

The better tourney games are filled with bunkers, semi-bunkers and cookie cutter builds like 100nader and longbow/gs wars, Very few glasses running around for burst thieves to get free kills (and those glasses are all pro dodgers). These games required the thieves to hang, to stay alive, and sustain dps pressure, things majority of the thieves just aren’t acquainted to.

A good thief is one that knows how to kill every class every build, and knows how to not get killed by them. With that capacity, his presence alone is intimidating, and when he performs, it’s absolutely devastating.

Rusc.4978:

From a general game standpoint, I’d like to see initiative operate on a sliding scale of regeneration: the less initiative you have, the slower it naturally regenerates. I think this would help curb general spamming, without terribly affecting players who play from a steady damage standpoint and already manage their initiative use. However, that’s just my opinion.

that would punish heavy initiative usage builds and force everyone to go auto
since dagger auto does more than anything else (other than an axe) it would force everybody to mainhand dagger.

Kaon.7192:

Brassnautilus.2941:

Kaon.7192:

because every other damage heavy skill will be put on a cooldown after getting dodged. Why should we get a second, third or fourth chance?

war adrenaline moves that missed don’t burn their adrenaline, and they can swap to redo (just in a different form) with no CD.
seemed fair and square to me.

Oh but you’re forgetting swap has a CD.
And this is offset by the fact that the only heavy damage burst skills for warriors are eviscerate and kill shot, and those two are not exactly chain-able for obvious reasons.

And to be clear I’m not claiming warriors not loosing adrenaline after missing is balanced. Quite the opposite, in fact.

like people already told you, adrenalin moves required no positioning and there’s no limited window to perform them. Stealth is only 3 sec (since our trait is currently bugged and does not give the 1 extra sec), and bs required positioning within that small window.

Make killshot and asseverate must be from the back.
how about misses or blocks drain half of the adrenaline that was built up?
or, how about give wars a 3 second window to use adrenaline moves, and if not performed within that time then the adrenaline goes away, that’d be fair huh?

Kaon.7192:

because every other damage heavy skill will be put on a cooldown after getting dodged. Why should we get a second, third or fourth chance?

war adrenaline moves that missed don’t burn their adrenaline, and they can swap to redo (just in a different form) with no CD.
seemed fair and square to me.

if they let us move faster in stealth (with trait OOC speed perhaps?)
that’d help us land more of those precious backstabs aye?

Battou.7832:

Here is one of the best D/P I have seen, and this is back from BW3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnioaHVRjh4

say what?
d/p is 1v1 build, not for ganging, that guy’s traits and utilities were plain dumb compared to setups ran by d/p thieves these days.

with this new patch, maybe it’ll get even worse. Pop that stealth under reveal and do nothing. Or worse yet if it pops right before you bp, then you just revealed with bp, and by the time debuff is off the bp spot would be gone….

Shemsu.8721:

100% wrong. The D/P “Perma” stealth build is not affected by this change since they never have to leave stealth. Only the patient CnD using thieves are hit by this

maybe you take 3 sec to produce stealth with the combo
for a lot of us that’s eternity
l2 kitten ue

Kneru.8014:

PS: Black Powder always works great for stomping. Watching every little downed attack miss makes me chuckle. xD

might as well finish the combo and stealth stomp

EasymodeX.4062:

Dasorine.1964:

Fact is no one else gets penalized for using their utilities back to back, with this change it will punish those thieves that use more than 1 instance of stealth for something other than sitting around farming newbies with CnD only.

Mesmers have a 0.25 second global cooldown on shatters. So they can’t chain/combo them.

Also, Mesmers are subject to the stealth reveal changes as well.

Also, all classes with leap finishers are also affected.

then make reveal 0.25 sec. How about 3s global cooldown on shatter?

seriously, we are talking about punishing thieves for repeatedly using their defensive ability here. Thieves use stealth to remove condition, we do not have other reliable mean of condition removal.

How about 3s CD on regen? Do that and see how many eles cry.

we will be like wars using only auto and adrenaline moves, where our adrenaline move will be producing stealth, whether CnD or BP-HS.

Incurafy.6329:

Lmao @ all of the QQ players cheering because Thieves are receiving a pseudo-nerf followed by a bunch of awesome buffs. You guys have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about and it’s absolutely hilarious.

As somebody maining a Thief since BWE1, I can tell you now that besides a few traits that will need to be looked at, I welcome the upcoming changes.

Stick that in your QQ pipes and smoke it.

umm, so what were you trying to say?
i feel dumber now haven read your post….

Olba.5376:

Now let’s look at the range/initiative figures for each of those:

• Infiltrator’s arrow: 150 range/initiative
• Infiltrator’s Strike: 200 range/initiative
• Shadow Shot: 225 range/initiative
• Heartseeker: 150 range/initiative

So Shadow Shot already has the most range per initiative, plus it comes with a blind on the target.

And it’s not like we don’t have utilities with teleports.

infiltrator arrow needs no target
infiltrator’s strike comes with shadow return which is a break stun and instant displacement
heartseeker is treated like a closer only by people who spams that stuff

shadowshot only moves yuo if you hit your target, and it isn’t a utility.

the only thing semi comparable with shadowshot on your list is steal, and that cost 0 init…

make shadow shot 1200 range and maybe, just maybe it’d worth 4 init
steal should shadowstep as far as it could get you, not canceled
longer duration on swiftness from dodging will allow us to save up some endurance once we got there

Taril.8619:

Initiative can be used up on:
Heartseeker on low health targets, to either apply pressure or to get to a target (Or finish someone off if they’re really low)
Shadow Shot (Does pretty decent damage now + Blind + Shadow Step)
Headshot to interrupt big attacks/heals so I won’t get smashed in the face
Black Powder > Heartseeker combo (Yes going stealth gives back init, but only 2 when the combo costs 9. That’s a net loss of 7 initiative)

spam more hs yo

Daendur.2357:

The only problem is:
does revelaed trigger when a stealth ends or when you leave stealth?
1- will broke the class
2- not a real big problem

what I mean is SR pulses stacking stealth if revealed trigger when the first pulse goes off then we have to think to big changes to our builds… otherwise you just have to time well you skills to not leave stealth.

sounded like the later, but obviously can be just misleading.
He said “when they come out of stealth, there usually isn’t much a chance to get hold of them”, which probably aimed at CnD, since bp-hs stealth isn’t so quick to produce.

he also said “reveal is gonna apply when you come out of stealth”, not “when stealth duration ends”. So it seemed just when you let the stealth buff blink off, reveal will come in, and as long as you don’t let that wear off it’d be ok.

From d/p perspective, this wouldn’t change things much, and if we could take advantage of the mobility changes then it will be a general buff,
Right now I’m running d/p on both swaps and forest map really isn’t friendly to shortbowless thieves.

This ranking board had me worried though. It seemed like a handy tool for the dev to target certain spec or build for nerfs. Say all thief builds take a dive and only one remains strong, leaderboard will make that obvious, and we all know what could happen from there.

I think these people need to realize there are large skill margins between players, whether it’s experience, knowledge (of classes and builds) or just APM, you can’t judge a build or profession by how certain player(s) do with it. You also cannot raise playing level of the bads simply by shifting the power of build and specs 1-dimensionally. I like the approach of adding new elements (like boon punishment). Give direct counters as options, maybe utilities, or better yet, elites. Give more color to the class, and let players decide whether they want those or not.

I typed a lengthy reply but it got deleted by accident, so let me give you a TL:DL version.

You are using the setup (P/D) wrong Taril. This setup was based on the stealth producing concept, which you don’t take advantage of.

" times when you either need the stealth now and not after BP>HS or times when you don’t have enough initiative for BP>HS."
Why are you using init if you weren’t stealthing? HS spam?
You get the init return from producing stealth dude.

and WvW is hardly a good evaluation for a build or setup. Go play tourney against teams with titles (meaning everyone of their players had 150 win class title), they will stun you and you will need to stealth. You can get away with bad playing and bad builds in WvW because majority of the players in there are bads or new. A lot of them weren’t even 80…

D/P draws strength from stealth. If you don’t like the concept, then play a different build or weapons setup. Stop spamming them HS with D/P then complaining you aint got enough initiatives. HS does not return ini.

btw, shadow refuge at the expanse of infiltrator’s signet is a bad trade imo
using signet of shadow in wvw instead of ambush traps i can understand
we are d/p, we don’t need those lousy 1 click stealths. Stuns create the only dangerous situation for us, use every breakstun you’ve got.

Taril.8619:

I’ve just swapped to a 10/20/20/20/0 D/P build.

Mug/Side Strikes/Practiced Tolerance/Master of Deception/Infusion of Shadow/Fleet Shadow/Quick Recovery

Trying to maximise Initiative gain (Infusion of Shadow, Opportunist, Quick Recovery + Infiltrator’s Signet) whilst still having some on demand burst (Mug, Backstab, 20% crit damage from Critical Strikes traits) and some defence (Practiced Tolerance + Master of Deception)

Whilst Deception skills can be unecessary a lot of the time, I roll with Shadow Refuge and Blinding Powder. Shadow Refuge with lower cooldown can be used as a heal in combat and also an escape mechanism, Blinding Powder can be used while stunned and is amazing for survivability (Blind the next attack that comes after stun/knockdown and be in stealth after getting up to move away from a target)

Not decided whether to roll with Hide in Shadows + Ruby Orbs (For damaging condi removal + extra crit damage) or Withdraw + Vampirism runes (Withdraw being instant, short cooldown and working well with the ~950 damage + healing from Vampirism runes especially with the ease of access to stealth (Don’t need to hit a target with BP > HS)

Combat should be a mix of offensive abilities such as Shadow Shot + Auto’s with the ability to get some repeated Backstabs off if necessary (Along with Smoke field for blinds)

you are looking at shadow arts and acrobatics as pure defensive specs, but they really not.
shadow’s rejuvenation and assasin’s reward don’t do well bringing you all the way up from bottom, but they are extremely consistent fillers. 1k here and there, before you knew it you’d be back to full pool, which gives you 5% crit chance from keen observer, a much more consistent bonus than fury or quickness from crit line.
the 2 traits together also increase efficiency of your double/tripple/quad crossing bp tremendously. Without these traits, doing so only remove conditions, now you not only filling up at double speed, you’d be getting 12-14 stacks of might from that 4-5s of safety, which then goes directly to your backstab….

adding 10% dmg bonus from fluid strikes, it’s almost a net gain of heals when you max out shadow and acrobatics instead of traiting directly into critical strikes or deadly arts, and these damage bonuses are far more consistent than fury and quickness.

Lastly, when you only have 10 pts to spend between deadly arts, critical strikes and trickery lines, getting critical strike 3 is the best option mathematically.

d/p with stealth removal immue to condi

3 sec and you didn’t break out of it?
a lot of classes can kill you in 3sec. they all OP then?

^^ you missing half the heals, that for mug and bit of fury isn’t necessarily a good bargain.

there are good and bad players of every class, every build. d/d ele is no exception and a a good d/d ele can’t be more different from a bad one. They don’t all play the same way either, it’s very situational.

haven said that, the best d/d eles are probably impossible for thieves in 1v1, nor can they kill a good thief though, and taken the option of a draw into count, I’d say d/p is most suited against them. Worst case you save up 9 init pop steal;th and leave.

they generally run 3 cantrips, each one is a condi removal from trait. plus all the condi removal from regen and attuning to water, they are impervious to condi builds, so p/d and shortbow can forget about it.

you gotta watch for their attunements, which I find to be the most difficult thing about fighting a d/d ele. Just watching the animations wouldn’t be enough to predict their moves, especially when enemies are all red, making identifying their wrist tell even harder. Watch the attunement buffs is the only way.
Once you’re comfortable with that, they become much more predictable.

1. their only self-produced combo-finisher is fire-earth. Ring of fire doesn’t hit, but it allows them to magnetic leap and produce fire aura. Auras on d/d ele is bad news, and most of them we can’t prevent, but this one we can, by staying out of LOS from their mag leap or stealth so they lose target.
Ring of fire only lasts 6 sec, and they have to grasp you before they could leap (it immobs you),. So if you got immob’ed. break stun, stealth or get out of los, don’t let them get free buffs.

The other thing they do in fire is drake breath (breath fire) → fire grab (another fire breath but much shorter). If you see they had breathed on you and you got condi, don’t let them do the 2nd one on you, that force them to change attunement and it most certainly would fk up their plan to switch onto earth and leap you.

2. water is their condi removal and healing attunement. they are impervious in water but they do very little damage, other than that they could snare you. If counting dodging into cleansing wave, they do something like 7k heal every 10 sec and their attunement swap is around 7 sec. This is why I think d/p would be the way to go because you can remove all the snares just with stealth. Stick to them and let your auto take them down as much as possible while they attuned to water, try to reduce the amount of net heal they get from this period.

3. If they were low and switched to light, they probably wanted to run. If you were low and they switched to light, then they were trying to finish you with stuns. The light aura stuns you if you hit it (lasts 4 sec), and light 5 is a blowout/knockback, but its range is super short, like shorter than your dagger hit box.
If you have range, range them during water and light. If you melee, do not hit them when they had aura, wait till it’s gone and prepare your breakstun for the light 5 blowout. It’s a gamble if you were both low, but if he had just switched out of water, go for it.

4. earth is where it hurts, and due to the combo field-finisher possibility, most of the good d/d eles would go from fire to earth, so when they drop ring of fire, it’s a tell to watch out for earth.
To beat a good d/d ele, a thief must dps him during earth, this is the only window5 you’d get. Everything has cast duration, except that mag grasp-leap is fast but 2 stages, and if it didn’t produce fire aura for them then it was useless. Dodge whenever they do an animation in earth, double dodge if you didn’t get out of ae warning circle, and dodge if they dodged. Other than that, bp hs bs, miss, do it again. If you could force them into water and they came out of it not fully healed, you just went 1 step closer to killing them.

Silver.4798:

Ah so basically the way d/p is played is to HP + auto attack, that should be the general go-to attack theme. And every now and again, stealth to BS given the opportunity whether it be a heavy hitting opener or maybe even a closer if the opportunity is there.

Thanks! That does answers my question about initiative management, I’m too used to ignoring the auto attack

best post all thread

Dagger auto is same as axe, they are top dps auto in the game
Never heartseeker spam, ever. Use it only to produce stealth, whether at end of your bp or at beginning of it as a closer. An auto sequence > 1 heartseeker on almost dead target and it uses ZERO initiative.
Use backstab to sustain pressure when you need distance (guardian, grenade engi, d/d ele, mesmers), rest of the time (when their cooldowns are down), you stick on them like you were piece of chewing gum.

Psybunny.8906:

This would buff unicorn thieves way too immensely. This would be way too OP.

^^
d/p-init return build swap to shortbow and full bar holy crap
like there isn’t enough ppl crying about thieves already. what you guys want to do, get the class deleted?

3 stun breakers……

grometsc.2375:

About only way to kill a good engineer

Pop TG
Throw Gunk in front of your P/P thief
Let the confusion build…I run P/P or P/D just for this ability. 10+ confusion stacks, plus bleeds, plus dmg, plus thief…Dead bunker engineer

1.that’s hardly the only way to kill bunker engi
2.bunker engi aren’t among the best of engis, glasses are
3.against a top engi it’s 50/50 no matter what. get stacked and naded only takes 1 shot (a lot of shots in 1)

don’t shadow shot then, use infiltrator, steal if you were close enough
shadowshot could be a waste of initiative in some cases. Wanting to bp-hs and not have the initiative is like caught with pants down for a d/p thief.

throw
gunk
on
downed

I agree with everything Iohanna said but i’d like to point couple things out.

in duels (especially in WVW) d/p is top of food chain, but that does not mean it’s the only one up there if considered all classes. I’ve met mesmers, guardians, wars and ranger (A ranger, pains me to say this) that I can’t kill, and alot of those d/d eles are freaking impossible too. So d/p is king of thief builds if 1v1 was the goal, but hardly OP.

secondly, the lack of usefulness for d/p in situations (including but not limited to zerging in WVW and high level tourney matches) is its lack of AoE dmg. BP shots are nice defensive ae but it’s easily overwritten.
That said, a good d/p thief always focus on what they do best – downing people. and the sheer amount of kills can sometimes turn the tide. I wouldn’t consider myself useless in zergs, I also carry supply and build siege yo.

oZii.2864:

Most D/P I see run either S/D, SB, or D/D I never seen one use P/P offset or P/D. If your running S/D and they switch to either other those sets you should be able to kill them pretty easily.

in wvw i run that, p/p swap. It’s just easier to get kills zerging.
in spvp no. accidentally swapped to p/p = gg

el oh el, every single “top” thief in spvp…

add soko d medo, he’ll give you a lesson on your 25/30/0/0/15 d/p

better yet, post a video of your 25/30/0/0/15 against his 0/10/30/30/0

or how about i give you an engi that will crush your 25/30/0/0/15 all day? add duke valens

these ppl lives in the mist, don’t tell me you couldn’t find them yo.

and just to stress the point. I can solo a lot of things on my guard, I guess that means guardians are even more OP?
Actually I think we’re onto something better there. LFG posts says so…

randomfightfan.4091:

Brassnautilus.2941:

is soloing lupi a proof for thief’s pve viability?

just because there’s a skill combination that let you avoid dmg from a certain boss with strict spell intervals does not mean the class was useful in general dungeons. There are many dungeons and bosses where a thief has to be carried.

and even on lupi, having a thief in the group (one that knows what he’s doing) only slows the group down. Having 5 thieves do it with sword 2 will take how long? While a well composed group without thieves does it in 2 minutes?

wethsopu on his warrior did it 5-6 minutes faster than me and that’s on a berserker warrior. Thief excels at arah, coe, hotw, ac, se, cof (yes cof), and ta. I don’t know about cm because I don’t do cm. If I knew 4 other thief players out there who knows what they’re doing, I’d gladly do a 5 thief party in any of those dungeons and on any path.

And have you tried using sbow in the open world? That is OP, completely broken, kill anything that moves and never get hit kind of weapon.

And with an uncomposed group (composing of me, 2 thief friends, and 2 pugs), everyone going ranged, we killed lupi in 5 mins.

i will gladly queue 80 fractal for you. Find your 5 thieves and show me how you OP through anything but swamp and water, those 2 can be soloed btw.

is soloing lupi a proof for thief’s pve viability?

just because there’s a skill combination that let you avoid dmg from a certain boss with strict spell intervals does not mean the class was useful in general dungeons. There are many dungeons and bosses where a thief has to be carried.

and even on lupi, having a thief in the group (one that knows what he’s doing) only slows the group down. Having 5 thieves do it with sword 2 will take how long? While a well composed group without thieves does it in 2 minutes?

Hotcake.2137:

You’re only further proving how ignorant you are on the subject, you’re obviously clueless. Burst D/P builds are almost identical to burst D/D builds, with only a couple modifications to suit WvW i.e. less power from the DA trait line, all of which is made up from Sigil of Bloodlust stacks. In sPvP, the build is EXACTLY the same, but you wouldn’t know that. I’m only pointing this out because people like you provide wrong information to people trying to learn.

too bad you are the only one on this thread that thinks that way. I’ll just ignore you like the others.