Guild Wars 2

@OP

I’m not sure thieves will get much sympathy on the profession balance forum. Certainly not from me, that’s for sure. I personally can’t wait to start mowing them down in WvW with the post-patch rapid fire. Their QQ tears will be like a fine wine on a mild summer’s evening.

Chrispy.5641:

Prysin.8542:

point 1: it is a bow. A bow shoots arrows. Want something else? get a musket or something, oh wait, rangers cant get those.

point 2: see point 1

point 3 : exploding trick arrows and flaming arrows of fiery death are already taken by other professions.

kitten, now I’m imagining how awesome it would look if rapid fire shot flaming arrows, or if barrage was like an arrow firestorm. Or if point blank shot were to shoot some kind of floral breeze at the enemy or some shiz. I can dream kitten.

nagymbear.5280:

I ran a shortbow sw/wh zerker build with 0/2/0/6/6 Owl, Wolf. It was really good for stacking might on pet. Might mix some rampager in there, and mess around with rending barbs probably. 20 stacks on my owl and bleed on his autoattack will be a boost to the damage I was already able to put out with him. If I hade full ascended celestial build it would even be better, but I just can’t be bothered to grind for that.

That sounds pretty different/interesting – do you have a link to the build?

@Fluffball

Ha, I think pure physical DPS will be a very nice, welcome option for many Rangers :P I may just go after thieves in WvW as they tend to be the ones who party invite/whisper me with some incredibly vulgar language if I manage to kill them……

I’m going to try to see if I can make the might stacks on the axe amount to anything by fiddling with different runes and whatever, but I think you might be right in that the 3 second stacks could just prove to be insignificant

@Sina

Ha, do you mean the 1h sword or the GS? I may try out the GS auto for the sake of pure damage, otherwise I’m pretty terrible at maneuvering with it >.>

What are you looking forward to trying out?

Since I’m an avid WvW roamer I’m keen to dust off my full zerk gear/build and see how much damage spike I can stack up with SotW + QZ + RtW + Rapid Fire. For the most part I probably won’t be rolling with QZ, but it’ll be interesting to see the effects of that spike. I’m also keen just to see the effects of zerg-surfing with longbow auto-attack at 900+ range with the additional RtW 10% attack speed and QZ. Longbow AA + QZ is already incredibly viable for a zerg sniper to pick-off enemy zerg stragglers (and pre-patch I’d especially not recommend wasting QZ on rapid fire), but that little extra 10% might spice it up even more.

I’ll also be keen to see how the axe might affects my usual a/d s/t condi bunker build, but not until I’ve satiated my lust for other peoples’ QQ with the DPS buff of course.

Will also get around to making a build similar to the longbow power/toughness meta and see what can be done with the updates there.

Kilger.5490:

I’m thinking the buffs will be pretty much unnoticed to the community at large. Its more just a dumbing down to make things easier to use and spec for, and fun to use. But mostly inconsequential.

The main thing that will bring qq are the number of people playing their rangers to check out the changes; there will be arrows flying around quite liberally, which will no doubt result in some deaths.

Some good points here, I agree.

I think you hit the nail on the head in that a fair few players will want to dust off their Ranger or level one up to check out the new improvements to DPS, and this could indeed result in QQ as to the sheer number running power or damage-spike builds in WvW and PvP. Hopefully if this does happen it will subside after people go back to their mains.

But by-and-large I think you’re right in that generally the updates will go unnoticed, except perhaps to the odd thief who dies to a QZ-buffed rapid fire. Condition and regen-based builds will likely still dominate the solo roaming meta and certain pvp roles as these updates do not surpass their viability.

Although it’s hard not to love being buffed, I’d say we don’t really need any more after this. What we do need however is a complete overhaul in our pet mechanic (for the love of god please bring in something like aspect of the pet…) or something that results in us having much, much more control over the interactions between our character, the pet and the enemy.

shinigamith.7120:

sminkiottone.6972:

The discussion was made several times, here a dev post :

Tyler Chapman.1832:

If you queue up attacks prior to the player stealthing, they will still land. Ranged attacks that is.

Hope this clears it up!

Skills like rapid fire are ment to track the target even after stealth.

Thanks for digging it

Well so even if i still find this illogical seems like it is working as intended!

Show Spoiler

hide spoiler

special thanks for you Bryzy my “friend” :p

No problem at all, maybe we should go for tea and biscuits sometime :P

Just weighing in with my support for this thread. As anyone could tell from my forum posts I only play Ranger… quite…uh…militantly you might say…. however given the fact that we’ve had our skill bar preview well in advance of the patch, we, alongside Engis, Thieves and Warriors have had ample time to provide feedback on these changes.

For the sake of pure fairness I can’t get my head around why the remaining balance notes haven’t been released. The balance updates for the remaining professions are just as relevant to Rangers, Engineers, Thieves and Warriors as they are to the professions receiving them as this is very much a group-based game.

shinigamith.7120:

Bryzy.2719:

@shinigamith

Your “hard vs soft” counter-play argument is entirely subjective. Who are you to decide what constitutes hard or soft counter play? The only measure of determining that is how good the player is at handling that counter play. So that’s one of your arguments voided straight off.

A hard counter leave you with no satisfying option unlike a soft counter. That’s not subjective.

Bryzy.2719:

Remember how you wrote about how there are options for “soft” counter-play to stealth like AoE and auto attack? Well guess what, they are both situational too. What if AoE attacks are on cool down?[…] What if you don’t have a viable auto attack for doing that? In fact, the only weapons that have a chance at doing that are the greatswords

First you are maybe gonna learn something but even dagger have a range close to a greatsword so every melee weapon is viable.

Edit: just verified quickly on the wiki thief Dagger auto attack have the same range than guardian Greatsword one. I’m too lazy to watch the other but i’m pretty sure that you will find the same thing for everyone

Then i don’t know any viable pvp build that don’t have recurring aoe OR a viable auto attack. If you do please link it.

Bryzy.2719:

What if the AoE attacks are placed nowhere near you (as they can’t see you)?

I edited the previous quote to take away this sentence and discuss about it here.
That’s pretty much the l2p issue you have to play this matchup again and again until you are used to the timing of a stealth-user.

Bryzy.2719:

You have also chosen to ignore all the logical rebukes people have given on here.

Which one? i may have forgot one since i’m not a robot In that case you are welcome to remind me!

Bryzy.2719:

You have presented no facts. All you have done is given anecdotal evidence laced with hyberbole and a wholly biased view towards stealth without being willing to look at the bigger picture. […]. Every other post you make just makes you look more stupid. You have no argumentative legs left to stand on.

I send you back to my previous post where i talk about “being arogant and denigrate people”.

The “satisfying option” is the subjective part. Just because you personally can’t handle that counter-play doesn’t mean many other players can’t. I’ve played many skilled thieves who’ve laid my use of rapid fire to waste. Timing their stealth after I’ve casted it for example. There you are – another way to counter the counter-play.

I can see it’s pointless trying to argue with you because you’re clutching at straws with trivial matters such as the distance of a cleave. Let’s bring things back into perspective, shall we? I have presented you with viable ways of countering channeled skills and gameplay, yet you seem to be choosing to reject them. That’s the true sign of ignorance. You call me denigrating and ignorant, yet all I have done is point out the flaws in your arguments and telling you why you are unreasonable and that the fact of the matter is, we will not see the situation with channeled skills following stealthed players change.

In case you are still unclear, let me summarise for you why it won’t change:

1. Stealth is the most powerful interpersonal ability in the game
2. Every aspect of every gameplay style needs to have counter-play to ensure balance
3. You are trying to remove a large aspect of stealth counter-play because you feel that it makes your gameplay experience too difficult, yet many other thieves/stealth users seem to be able to deal with it just fine – if they couldn’t, we’d see a lot more QQ about the subject, yet yours is the only thread I’ve seen on the topic
4. The huge majority of people agree with my standpoint in this thread
5. Most of the arguments you are presenting are flawed to some degree, yet you’re not helping your own cause by being ignorant towards people who are showing you why you’re wrong.

Have to agree with Esplen on the way in which the devs have implemented these skill bars. Not particularly organised to say the least.

It skips my mind completely why the devs won’t just release written versions of the proposed changes for all the remaining professions (and reasoning thereof) so that there will be at least time for feedback before the patch goes live. I’m not quite sure what the devs’ reasoning could be for not wanting to reveal the balance preview notes.

@shinigamith

Your “hard vs soft” counter-play argument is entirely subjective. Who are you to decide what constitutes hard or soft counter play? The only measure of determining that is how good the player is at handling that counter play. So that’s one of your arguments voided straight off.

Also, it’s ironic how you make excuses for not being able to counter-play skill channeling. Remember how you wrote about how there are options for “soft” counter-play to stealth like AoE and auto attack? Well guess what, they are both situational too. What if AoE attacks are on cool down? What if the AoE attacks are placed nowhere near you (as they can’t see you)? What if you don’t have a viable auto attack for doing that? In fact, the only weapons that have a chance at doing that are the greatswords, and even then given thieves’ mobility those auto attacks are easy to escape. Your second argument is voided.

You have presented no facts. All you have done is given anecdotal evidence laced with hyberbole and a wholly biased view towards stealth without being willing to look at the bigger picture. You have also chosen to ignore all the logical rebukes people have given on here. Every other post you make just makes you look more stupid. You have no argumentative legs left to stand on.

Prysin.8542:

Leo G.4501:

Prysin.8542:

xev.9476:

Ithilwen.1529:

Ranger pets ignore Mesmer invisibility and clones. So, they always point out the Mesmer. They also have really excessive damage and will follow you across a pvp map… Wow I wish my clones tracked half that well.
INSTANT NERF TIME.

Rofl, thanks for the chuckle! You’re like the mesmer version of Daecollo!

If glassy mesmer vs bm pet/bird with might, it will not be unreasonable to expect hits over 5k on f2 use, and 2-3k aa’s

How much damage does Mind Wrack do again?

apparently over 20k if all clones hit at the same time…. oh ya.. NURF CLONES, NURF MESMER, NURF STEALTH, BUFF RANGER PET

Dude I have to disagree here.

It’s not “NURF”

It’s: “Errrmahgerd OH PEE, NEEEEEERRRRRFFFFFFF!!!!”

shinigamith.7120:

Dodging do not fix the fact that the guy know where you are and that you can be nuked by one of his allies.

I repeat, this is COUNTER-PLAY. Christ, talk about a circular argument.

So they know where you are? Welcome to what every other profession without stealth has to deal with 24/7!

Also, don’t dismiss my dodging assertion with a “just no”. I’ve been maining Ranger since early access and have used rapid fire thousands of times. A single dodge from a player will mitigate between a 3rd and a half of rapid fire’s total damage output dependent on how they strafe when entering and leaving the dodge, so don’t even go there. Furthermore, skills that are being channeled against you can be nullified by simply moving beyond the angle of view of the attacking character, which cancels their channeling. Your arguments have no basis other than “Urgh I’m sick of people being able to kill me! QQ why does the most powerful and abusable ability in the game have to have counter-play?! QQ”.

shinigamith.7120:

Bryzy.2719:

shinigamith.7120:

Bryzy.2719:

shinigamith.7120:

You’re pointing a 2 years-old problem here But yeah i totally agree i’m tired of seeing ppl following me while i’m stealthed.

i.e you want there to be no counter play to your ability. Not gonna happen my friends, especially with all the QQ about how OP stealth is right now.

That’s not a counterplay that’s a design flaw. About the OP Stealth as allways => L2P my “friend”.

Muchacho.2390:

Maybe because those skills are heat (magic?) seeking und stealth makes you only invisible…

It makes as much sense as it doesnt…

There is no logic in gw2 i call it a bad design i’m not gonna search in the lore why it is not working as it should be.

Cufufalating.8479:

They should probably make you invulnerable in stealth too. I mean we all know spamming is bad, so why should people be able to spam AoE and #1 and kill you while you’re stealth? Just promoting more spam not skilled play like stealth.

You just didn’t understand that we are not complaining about #1 and Aoe…but about chanelling skills..as allways ppl talk and don’t know why

PS: That’s allways funny to see casual complaining about stealth

No, it’s counter-play. A thief’s primary strength is its ability to stealth. If there are no ways for other professions to be able to defend themselves against this, that would be a design flaw. Also, I never personally said stealth is OP; I referenced the general QQ about stealth on the forums. But yeah, way to add to the stereotype that all thieves are 12 year old kids spouting “L2P!!” at everyone who disagrees with a functionality of their profession. But whatever, you’ll be stuck with this whether you like it or not. So suck it.

First we are not discussing about thief but stealth don’t bring the debate here.

Then, something that break a mechanic like this is not a counter-play it’s a hard counter. The difference is simple: a counter-play can be avoided if you mind that your oponent is gonna counter you. Here you can’t avoid the fact that targetting chaneled spells follow you.

Finally, there are currently ways to defend yourself against stealth (and particullary thieves as it seems like you want to talk about it):

-Aoe spamming. the stealth user will still take them (and in the case of a thief, since the profession have no hp it’s very efficient)
-If you don’t have recurring aoe you still can spam #1

And that’s it you have your soft counter to stealth

“But hey i don’t know where the thief is”: L2P issue the thief is allmost everytime behind you

Yeah it takes time to mind where the stealth user can be and it’s the l2p issue and that’s why when someone say “stealth op” we reply “l2p”.

Actually, you are clearly referencing thieves as I can see all your past forum posts and it’s obvious you main a thief. Also, you can avoid channeled casts, even in stealth, by doing something called dodging. Additionally, all other professions have very limited channeling skills that will follow you through stealth, so most of the time a thief is fighting, those skills will be on cooldown. Not to mention the fact that dodging will allow you to avoid most of the damage from things like Rapid Fire. I’d say this is more of a “L2P issue” for you.

shinigamith.7120:

Bryzy.2719:

shinigamith.7120:

You’re pointing a 2 years-old problem here But yeah i totally agree i’m tired of seeing ppl following me while i’m stealthed.

i.e you want there to be no counter play to your ability. Not gonna happen my friends, especially with all the QQ about how OP stealth is right now.

That’s not a counterplay that’s a design flaw. About the OP Stealth as allways => L2P my “friend”.

Muchacho.2390:

Maybe because those skills are heat (magic?) seeking und stealth makes you only invisible…

It makes as much sense as it doesnt…

There is no logic in gw2 i call it a bad design i’m not gonna search in the lore why it is not working as it should be.

Cufufalating.8479:

They should probably make you invulnerable in stealth too. I mean we all know spamming is bad, so why should people be able to spam AoE and #1 and kill you while you’re stealth? Just promoting more spam not skilled play like stealth.

You just didn’t understand that we are not complaining about #1 and Aoe…but about chanelling skills..as allways ppl talk and don’t know why

PS: That’s allways funny to see casual complaining about stealth

No, it’s counter-play. A thief’s primary strength is its ability to stealth. If there are no ways for other professions to be able to defend themselves against this, that would be a design flaw. Also, I never personally said stealth is OP; I referenced the general QQ about stealth on the forums. But yeah, way to add to the stereotype that all thieves are 12 year old kids spouting “L2P!!” at everyone who disagrees with a functionality of their profession. But whatever, you’ll be stuck with this whether you like it or not. So suck it.

shinigamith.7120:

You’re pointing a 2 years-old problem here But yeah i totally agree i’m tired of seeing ppl following me while i’m stealthed.

i.e you want there to be no counter play to your ability. Not gonna happen my friends, especially with all the QQ about how OP stealth is right now.

Ithilwen.1529:

My clones lose interest in a target if it gets x distance away. Beside which, it is absolutely OP to destroy my main operating method by giving the Ranger an infallible method of finding the “real” Mesmer.
That’s a BS cheat when that bloody longbow is already far too powerful.

Welcome to Guild Wars 2 and something called counter-play.

I’m guessing you’ve just lost to a ranger in pvp/wvw and decided to moan about it on here? Whatever the case, you’re going to love what’s in store for rangers in the next balance patch so I suggest you buckle down and take your medicine.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

Rangers have nothing to do with archery other than being able to do it.

The term “Ranger” does not imply a ranged specialist, neither in GW2 nor in tradition. It refers to a character who is an experienced survivalist and who is attuned to nature.

And they can perform that role just as well with a sword as they can with a bow.

I think you missed the “title is a joke” part. First phrase, second line.

Lol, looks like OP is starting the QQ for the Ranger buffs a couple of weeks early.

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

even though I main an elementalist in a prominent speedclearing guild.

You just lost most of your credibility right there, OP.

Elementalists have been abusing skill 4 in dungeons. Doing that amount of damage was not the intended use for that skill. This is a fix. If they don’t fix it, every other profession apart from elementalist will soon face the “NOT IN MY DUNGEON” rejection Rangers have had to put up with all this time.

Holland.9351:

Bryzy.2719:

Holland.9351:

Plated Behemoth (wiki)
AoE Stability (8s) – 40s cooldown – 1/2s cast time (same as Brown Bear)

Green Moa
AoE Swiftness (15s) – 25s cooldown – 1s cast time (same as Red Moa)

They would help the Ranger’s usefulness in zerg movement/warfare, UNLESS they root when they cast like the god kitten jungle stalker -.-

They all root in place when they cast. The cast time is what matters though. Brown Bear is excellent with only 0.5s cast time. Red Moa is pretty good too with only 1s cast time. Jungle Stalker however has 3s cast time. That’s 6 times longer than the Brown Bear. It’s just ridiculous for that pet.

Yeah sorry, length of time on the cast root is what I meant

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Give Mesmer a few buffs/bug fixes for this and we have a deal. As people have said already mes is already weak and nerfing this without any buffs would be punching someone already on the ground (like the ileap change and many others nerfs before it).

Mesmers aren’t weak, and they are still very viable in pvp and solo/group roaming. They just need a lot of fixes to the elements that are broken. They don’t need buffs but they certainly need fixes to bring them up to speed again.

I’m looking forward to all the thief QQ if more rangers start rolling with sic ’em post-patch.

lol @ OP and this thread

Holland.9351:

Plated Behemoth (wiki)
AoE Stability (8s) – 40s cooldown – 1/2s cast time (same as Brown Bear)

Green Moa
AoE Swiftness (15s) – 25s cooldown – 1s cast time (same as Red Moa)

They would help the Ranger’s usefulness in zerg movement/warfare, UNLESS they root when they cast like the god kitten jungle stalker -.-

Prysin.8542:

You do realize the 1 sec RF burst can only be used once every 16 seconds at best, that is if we take gm trait in bm line offering 3sec quickness on swap. If not speccing into bm its 1sec burst every 48 seconds. GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT

I’d also like to reiterate that the rapid fire burst buff is also a double-edged sword. Sure, we’ll be getting quicker burst meaning better DPS, but that also means other professions have a better opportunity to avoid all our burst in a single dodge, or reflect it all back at us more easily. This is an example of truly “balancing” a skill; giving the Ranger a better attacking force while giving their opponents a better chance of countering that force.

Phoenix as a rare/elite pet all the way. Dem firey particle effects

So how much are people willing to bet that when the balance patch goes live other professions are going to QQ like mad about Rangers until they force the devs to nerf or remove the buffs?

Like a jealous sibling on christmas day…. “No mummy if I can’t have it then he can’t either!”

To be fair, as a Ranger who semi-often runs full zerk longbow in WvW, thieves are pretty easy fodder for rapid fire + QZ especially as it follows them in stealth. Although, if they do get the hit on me then I’m as good as dead lol, unless I can pull off a lucky lightning reflexes + hunter’s shot, then I might survive.

Ithilwen.1529:

Now rangers are easily interrupting most skills and killing before I can get into attack range, if that is that I can get past their multiple pets.

This patch is totally in the wrong direction.

This is ridiculous, people are SO eager to QQ about Rangers because we got some decent buffs which we needed since day 1 that they’re calling them OP and making things up even before the patch has passed!

I wish everyone would just shut the hell up QQing unless it’s for genuinely broken things like mesmer skills, ranger general terribleness or how OP facerolly warriors are.

Coulter.2315:

I don’t understand people who go “I have an idea for a buff!” and then immediately follow it with something so absurd that no one would ever integrate it into the game.. Its like writing some Professor McGonagall/Voldemort fan fiction and asking JK to shove it in a novel.

This. Your second suggestion is ridiculous. Think about the bugs now. Then think about the potential number of bugs with 6 phantasms. Not to mention how OP it would make shatter. Not to mention the huge number of changes to mechanics, traits and gameplay. The QQ from the rest of the community would be heard in other dimensions.

And if a lot of this thread’s QQ is about losing all the time to certain professions, aside from the fact that you should L2P: sure, Mesmers don’t excel at beating certain professions like thieves, but it’s just the same across the board. Thieves get kitten d by longbow zerk Rangers, RRR Rangers, d/d eles, Guardians get kitten d by necros and warriors, anything squishy gets kitten d by thieves, and Rangers get kitten d by everyone, like one huge gang-kitten on the Ranger. Generally speaking that is. Otherwise everyone in every profession just needs to L2P then there’ll be no balance QQ.

Rym.1469:

I’d much rather just speed up the projectile/make it usable in 270 ° frontal cone, remove useless swiftness and add Haste for the duration of HS’ stealth.

Bam, more rewarding, easier to land in combat, counterable, allowing for true repositioning.

This. To be honest my success rate with hunter’s shot is around 70%, but that can go up or down depending on the situation…. 1v1 (though I rarely 1v1 with LB LOL) it’s a lot harder to land than in a group skirmish in WvW. Haste on proc would be great and would provide that element of mobility to the longbow. Fits in well with the lore, too. Devs please take note!

“I found that Mesmers were pretty underpowered compared to most classes”

“just about everything we can do, another class did better”

“lot of players refuse to dungeon with us because they see us as dead-weight”

Ha, welcome to the world of Rangers. It’ll be a long stay with a lot of disappointment to come.

Liewec.2896:

Bryzy.2719:

It just doesn’t work like this in most scenarios! Most other PvPers or people you encounter in WvW can gap-close incredibly quickly, and a glass longbow Ranger vs someone up close is dead in an instant.

This is what people don’t understand

i’m rank 72, i think i know a little bit about pvp XD

you position yourself somewhere high up and difficult to get to, where if you start taking too much damage you can simply step back and be obstructed.
but from experience they are usually low on health by the time they get to land a single hit.

also keep checking the route up, and have wolf as a secondary pet so if the enemy makes it near you you can knockback/fear them off the edge

also ranger isn’t “my class” its just a fun build i like to play on occasion when i’m less focused on holding points but just wanting some dakka dakka fun

So what you’re essentially saying is, stay away from everyone and make sure nobody gets near you else you’re basically dead. Longbow gameplay is limited to this. Now that we have these buffs we might finally be able to hold our own with the longbow in more close-up encounters. Then again, it might make close encounter fights even worse considering it will take just 1 dodge to avoid most of the damage this time.

Sevans.4619:

I laughed out loud when I read the thread title.

Ahahaha, same here I think a little pee came out too!

“Errmahgerd Rangers are getting buffs and we aren’t!! NEEEEEERRRRRRFFFFF!”

Carighan.6758:

Bryzy.2719:

Sigh… incredibly overstated,

Which was clever in a way, because your entire original post is overstated the very same way, just in the opposite direction.

So you mean “understated”?

How, exactly, when I haven’t denied that the updates are good? They’re just what we needed – a boost to our DPS so we too can have a good power build like all the other professions. The signet change is also something that should have been in place since day 1. And also, since you’re a mesmer, you should be happy with the fact that you will be able to run reflect and destroy longbow power Rangers when they decide to use rapid fire + QZ against you. In that sense, the updates to rapid fire are very much a double-edged sword.

This really gets to me. The profession lagging behind the most in the game gets updates it’s needed since day 1, and people start moaning about it. It’s ridiculously childish and selfish. Even as a Ranger, the current worse class in the game, I would be happy to see other profs such as elementalist and necro get buffed as I know they need it. Mesmer I think needs fixes more than buffs but w/e. The point is, this community has become very orientated towards selfish “balance”, and it’s people like you who need to snap out of it.

Like the others have said, try and decide which of the two you will use the most often. Do you have other professions that you play a lot as well as your Ranger? Do their builds involve greatswords or longbows too? Secondly, try to decide which you like the look of the best.

Kudzu is absolutely perfect for the Ranger image, fires awesome looking arrows and has footfalls too. However this might not fit the image of a longbow warrior so well. Sunrise on the other hand looks amazing on pretty much anything.

Another thing to consider is that Ranger longbows will be getting a fairly decent buff come the next balance patch, so longbow will most likely be your weapon of choice for PvE once the patch lands.

I personally want Kudzu, though like yourself it’s a toss up between that and sunrise. My only thought is that I only like to play my Ranger, and my elementalist is only there for Orr farming (but it can’t wield a GS anyway so…). Let’s just hope they give Kudzu a nice aura too in the future.

Pugsley.9627:

It’s best with a small team but you sure can roam on it as well just don’t expect to always win or escape. As with any Player vs Player game once you stop caring about dying all the fights are fun win or lose.

This sums it up perfectly. Small team roaming, especially with at least one other zerk Ranger, is great fun. Last night I was roaming with a mesmer and another zerk ranger (I was zerk too ofc) and we were wrecking face against other small teams, though might stacks from 2 jungle stalkers helped a lot…

Unless you’re playing RRR or some other take on condi bunker/regen, in which case you can solo roam pretty safely, but you’ll have to put up with party invites and whispers from very angry thieves who get mad kitten that they didn’t beat you 1v1.

ens.9854:

Bryzy #1 the ranger can have a teammate protect him and #2 the longbow dmg won’t be garbage up close now. We are talking about ranger as a DPS roamer… Anybody that can close on you from 1500 range, take 1-2 opening strikes and not be in serious hurt is probably somebody you can just run from til help arrives

The longbow DPS will be better post-patch. But no, we’re not talking about ranger as a DPS roamer. They will still get eaten alive by thieves and other glass builds in 1v1 or group situations. The longbow ranger will simply be more efficient in a team DPS-support role. “somebody you can just run from til help arrives”…. yeah you have definitely not played longbow Ranger! There is no “running” if you’re a longbow Ranger. The only chance you might have of disengaging/escaping from a fight is if you’re running sword and greatsword. Rangers have terrible disengaging/escaping ability otherwise.

nearlight.3064:

Bryzy.2719:

ens.9854:

The current longbow can wreck face and get 3-4k auto attacks and is borderline abusive with some clever positioning.

The new longbow is, quite frankly, scary.

Sigh… incredibly overstated, you obviously don’t play zerk longbow builds on a Ranger. The average ranger at 900+ range will get up to 3k crits on squishy targets only. 4k crits are possible but only when under intermittent buffs, mostly those from other players too. The AA is too slow for this to concern most players, and especially given the fact that 900+ range HAS to be maintained AND zerk Rangers will go down quicker than felix baumgartner in zerg situations (which is the only place the snipe-based builds you’re referring to are useful). Furthermore, considering the meta across all professions in WvW is heavily drawn towards tankier builds, the most you will see rangers maxing out on most players with AA is 2-2.2k. In PvP AA is almost redundant. Rapid fire, the skill that is supposed to be the longbow’s “damage spike” skill, is out-DPSed by the AA. Rapid fire is only a threat to thieves entering stealth, and even then not a game-breaker as it’s incredibly weak – hence the update.

On necro I get 3 – 4k lifeblasts on squishy targets. And that’s in a single attack, but frankly it’s needed for necros to be competitive and only at 600 range or less.

Anyway as for this thread I do agree for the most part and I wish they had done more with making the pets less suicidal abused winnie the poohs. And this is much more constructive that the mesmer moaning thread you made a while back… so my respect for you has been restored.

I’ll be interested to see what happens in the necro skillbar. I never play my necro so I don’t know a lot about their mechanics but… I am getting the impression they’re in need of a few tweaks or buffs here and there.

Liewec.2896:

ens.9854:

The current longbow can wreck face and get 3-4k auto attacks and is borderline abusive with some clever positioning.

The new longbow is, quite frankly, scary.

this^

when i’m bored i’ll play a sniper in hotjoin, camp somewhere high where i can cover a capture point with my lovely 1500 range, i’ll then nuke down anyone that is brave/stupid enough to get within my range,
it hits like a truck, squishies are dead in 4-5 shots!
and now it’ll:
attack 10% faster, get access to signet effects like 150% damage on next attack, 25% increased damage for 8 seconds, and rapid fire will now be more busty and less sustain.

this is going to be lethal!

It just doesn’t work like this in most scenarios! Most other PvPers or people you encounter in WvW can gap-close incredibly quickly, and a glass longbow Ranger vs someone up close is dead in an instant.

This is what people don’t understand, and to be perfectly honest, I don’t think you’d be willing to admit even if you did understand because you can stand the fact that another profession is getting more buffs than yours. Even if it’s the profession that people actively kick out of dungeons and shun in most aspects of the game. This is ridiculous, but ah well, we’re the ones with the buffs so I’m still happy. Whatever.

vincecontix.1264:

ens.9854:

The current longbow can wreck face and get 3-4k auto attacks and is borderline abusive with some clever positioning.

The new longbow is, quite frankly, scary.

+1 lost almost 3/4 of my health in like 2secs from glassy rangers rapid fire and thats was with 3k armor 24k health.

Edit: I was in wvw.

So now people are straight up lying about what Rangers can currently do. You people are ridiculous.

3/4 of a 24k health pool is 18k health. You’re saying that a Ranger’s rapid fire took EIGHTEEN THOUSAND HP off a 3k armor build in 2 seconds?

First of all, a Ranger’s rapid fire hits on average up to 10-11k on a standard zerk build if there are a good number of crits in there. This can potentially be boosted to around 14-15k if might-stacked from other players and other power buffs and assuming most attacks crit. And this only on total glass players.

Second of all, Rapid fire has a 5 second cast time, so I’m not sure where you pulled that 2 second figure from (though I have a very good idea…). And finally, most players dodge during a Ranger’s rapid fire, which makes almost half the shots miss.

You are simply proving the point I made in my original post.

ens.9854:

The current longbow can wreck face and get 3-4k auto attacks and is borderline abusive with some clever positioning.

The new longbow is, quite frankly, scary.

Sigh… incredibly overstated, you obviously don’t play zerk longbow builds on a Ranger. The average ranger at 900+ range will get up to 3k crits on squishy targets only. 4k crits are possible but only when under intermittent buffs, mostly those from other players too. The AA is too slow for this to concern most players, and especially given the fact that 900+ range HAS to be maintained AND zerk Rangers will go down quicker than felix baumgartner in zerg situations (which is the only place the snipe-based builds you’re referring to are useful). Furthermore, considering the meta across all professions in WvW is heavily drawn towards tankier builds, the most you will see rangers maxing out on most players with AA is 2-2.2k. In PvP AA is almost redundant. Rapid fire, the skill that is supposed to be the longbow’s “damage spike” skill, is out-DPSed by the AA. Rapid fire is only a threat to thieves entering stealth, and even then not a game-breaker as it’s incredibly weak – hence the update.

Rangers will be receiving some good updates in the upcoming balance patch, but it seems as though other professions are overstating them and then having high hopes for what the skillbar will hold for their profession.

The thing is, Rangers needed these buffs the most out of all professions just to bring them up to par with how the other professions are performing in all aspects of the game. This is the key point that a lot of people seem to be forgetting. The Ranger profession came out miles ahead of the others in the vote for “who needs the most help?” so it should have been expected.

In reality, while these updates are undeniably good, they have only really scratched the surface of the Ranger problems. One key aspect of this update was making the longbow a more viable weapon for power-based builds (which will remain very few and far between until this patch). Although we do get an increase in DPS ability using rapid fire and a slight increase in attack speed with RtW, this simultaneously boosts the potential for counterplay (e.g. 1-dodge-damage-avoid and projectile reflect) from other professions by an equal amount.

However, our skillbar preview:

- only touched on pets briefly with 2 fairly insignificant fixes – no mention of any plans to implement brand new pet mechanics like the “aspect of the pet” that took off well in the CDI. Given that pets are one of our biggest flaws, this is looking a little disappointing

- Only 2 utilities mentioned and no signs of new additions or upgrades for others (particularly nothing for traps and spirits)

- No improvements for the torch, shortbow (which will be officially dead post-patch!) and sword

Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m not moaning about the voids in the balance preview. The devs can’t do everything all at once (…even though cough one balance patch every nine months cough….), but the point I’m trying to make is that people shouldn’t be getting so fired up about the Ranger updates when it’s exactly what everyone agreed was needed in the first place.

In all honesty, were Warriors really expecting any pros from this balance? Given that Warriors are widely considered the most face-rolly OP profession in the game as things stand, it shouldn’t surprise you guys. I personally have no problems against Warriors so I couldn’t have cared less about the skillbar as long as they weren’t buffed more, but I think nerfs this time round were to be expected.

Eugenides.1274:

I think people were hoping for buffs along the lines of what we saw with Engi and Ranger. Most of the buffs are fairly minor and many traits are still completely useless.

If there’s no reason for people to get excited, of course they’ll complain about nerfs (regardless of whether they are necessary or not).

The thing is, Ranger NEEDED those buffs. In all honesty I think the buffs Rangers received will be the best buffs out of all the classes, or joint-best depending on what the others get.

But that’s how it should be. Rangers needed those buffs just to get up to par with how all the other professions are performing right now. Thieves don’t need lots of buffs. Like mesmers, elementalists, guardians and necros, they need tweaks – small buffs here, small fixes there. Warriors rightly got nerfed – perhaps not even by as much as some people were expecting.

The problem with the skillbar now is that a lot of professions are going to have high hopes now they have seen what Rangers received – however they forget that Rangers were most in need of those buffs (as indicated in the overwhelming majority of support for the Ranger CDI) to bring them up to scratch.

Well deserved nerfs right there for the warrior. Watch thieves play on the “nerfs” like they’re all they got. You guys got mostly buffed. p/d venomshare thieves incoming!

Warriors and thieves are two of the most powerful professions in the game, so this is just as well.

Well from the preview, it seems as though the Devs took a lot on board from the Ranger CDI, which I’m very happy to see. Particularly for the longbow.

I posted this quite early-on in the original Ranger CDI thread that Allie started months ago, and I’m loving how the Devs have taken it on board (though I’m not arrogant enough to suggest they took their longbow ideas solely from my post as almost everyone was saying the same!):

Specific Game Mode

All really, but preference would be WvW

Proposal Overview

Overhaul longbow skills to give Rangers back their archetypal weapon of choice

Goal of Proposal

“Unparalleled Archers”. Even Warriors have a better longbow skillset than we do.
Many Rangers would love to use the longbow if it wasn’t such a stagnant weapon. Longbow skills are clearly designed towards DPS functionality (as the GS is to the warrior, guardian, mesmer, and dual daggers are to thieves and eles), but they don’t pack enough punch. Open up a viable DPS build option for the ranger (for which there is currently none). Though “sustained damage” is included in Anet’s Ranger philosophy, it is not fair that every other class gets a decent physical DPS build. There is no holy trinity in this game, and Anet themselves said that any class should be able to perform any role. Allow the Ranger to take back more control over their own DPS rather than relying on terrible pet mechanics.

Proposal Functionality

Here I present some simple skill-change ideas that have frequented the Ranger forums for quite some time.

LB skill 1 suggestions:

- Either speed up the arrow flight or increase its damage

- Create a chargeable shot by holding down the key; in line with the sniper-esque image

LB skill 2 suggestion:

- Either increase damage or decrease cast time. LB auto attack currently gives more DPS than rapid fire, and this just isn’t right. It’s also too easy to dodge.

- Or replace the skill entirely with a single, powerful shot that could perhaps also add a condition such as stacked vulnerability or cripple.

LB skill 5 suggestion:

- Allow movement during the casting of Barrage. This skill isn’t good enough to warrant such vulnerability.

- OR, if no movement, then grant the player stability during the casting time

Was a little disappointed they didn’t do more with Barrage, but I am certainly hoping they took the same approach towards all the fantastic pet ideas people were suggesting. I think after such an intense CDI it would a pretty big shame if they were to leave significant pet changes out of another balance patch.

Carighan.6758:

Bryzy.2719:

“The FIRST year”.

We’re almost at the end of the SECOND year.

Try again with more recent statistics.

Well, you are the one who said Rangers are the least represented profession.
I then pulled out the most recent statistics we have. We don’t have any newer ones, we lack the amount of data points necessary to extrapolate (plus you’re postulating that it changed significantly, so it wouldn’t make sense to do that), so what else is there to do?

Can you show us what percentage of played toons are rangers? Because the last stats we know, Rangers were the second most common, and Mesmers the least common. That’s about as far as I can verify any claim. You?

You see this is interesting, because those statistics show nothing about how many players MAIN each profession. By the looks of things, it merely shows how many accounts have those professions in their character slots. Or perhaps it even shows something else. They are incredibly ambiguous and unreliable.

Ranger may have been one of the most commonly created professions at launch and immediately following the inception of the game, however at that point players had no idea of each professions’ individual effectiveness, so for all we know those that created Ranger characters could have switched their main play to another profession.

We will see what, if released, the end-of-second year statistics show, and I can guarantee it won’t be the same picture.

EDIT: regardless of who is the least and most represented profession, it doesn’t make my other points obsolete. Rangers have always been the worst profession overall.

Carighan.6758:

Bryzy.2719:

You wanna talk statistics? Oh so you only presented me with TOL stats did you? How about ones for the WHOLE GAME? Rangers are the LEAST represented profession in the WHOLE. GAME.

Interesting.
The most recent official information we have is https://d3b4yo2b5lbfy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/1c2c9GW2_Anniv_Infographic-590x3215.jpg – which shows a very different picture.

“The FIRST year”.

We’re almost at the end of the SECOND year.

Try again with more recent statistics.