Guild Wars 2

gamefreak.5673:

To be honest im amazed you got hit by necro grasp. That thing will normally miss anything that is beyond the 600 range as long as it moves.

My thoughts exactly!
I can’t remember the last the I was hit by a necro’s grasp while on my Warrior.
Then again I can never remember landing one on my Necro, so i’m sure that necro was pleasantly surprised.

Moderator.1462:

Hi everyone,

Please remember that the team has not yet stated what abilities or how are they going to be changed. You might get a glad surprise!

Anyway, regarding the issue of “what is considered AoE and what not” you might find this GW2 Wikia article interesting. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/AoE

Again, please relax and enjoy the game. Thanks for your understanding.

Thanks for the update! And the link that helps with clarification

fishergrip.4082:

More ascended gear to further stat creep on wvw. Plz stop stat creep on wvw.

I agree Hopefully Laurels are not so rare to get and that Ascended gear isn’t too expensive in terms of them.
Well just have to wait and see.

I would only recommend Shouts for the ability to cure conditions. (With knights runes ofcourse)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Soldier
The healing done by the shouts is not all that great, but being able to cure conditions from allies still makes this build very viable.
Plus you get to hear your character yell stuff during battle! There’s nothing better than that

Evalia.7103:

Causic.3798:

I’m a shout warrior (with full knights gear) and since I always WvW I use mending.
I absolutely love the condition removal (since I already heal with shouts).
In total I have Mending (cures 2 + heals), Shake it off (cures 2 or 3, never really checked), and For Great Justice (1), all on short cooldowns Then as my lest utility I have Endure Pain for those “Oh shi-” moments where you need to escape.

Have you tried out Fear Me? It’s a pretty agressive shout.
It’s versatility is amazing to no end, really. Even so i’m not always using it due to it’s high cooldown(only drawback).
Also, Shake it Off is a stun breaker plus condition removal. It only removes one condition(but for everyone around you as well, plus up to 2 with soldier runes – I still find it pretty overhyped because of other great abilities)

Yeah I use to have Fear Me, but since its also a shout I would end up using it to heal and not for the fear (which is bad since it has such a terrible cooldown) :P Or I would use it when I was about to die in a zerg and fear away all the enemies close by but the long range ones would still get me. My usual WvW strategy is to run into the enemy group (or zerg), attack away (while using shouts/mending to cure off conditions), and then when I use up my utilities I’ll use Endure Pain and Whirlwind Attack and Rush to safety till the cool downs are over So Endure Pain saves my life quite often :P

With my shout build I use:
Mending (heal skill), Shake It Off, For Great Justice, Endure Pain, Signet of Rage (elite)

I’m a shout warrior (with full knights gear) and since I always WvW I use mending.
I absolutely love the condition removal (since I already heal with shouts).
In total I have Mending (cures 2 + heals), Shake it off (cures 2 or 3, never really checked), and For Great Justice (1), all on short cooldowns Then as my lest utility I have Endure Pain for those “Oh shi-” moments where you need to escape.

Id like to know if they even have anything planned for it, so that if not I can start forcing myself to do FotM…

Will ascended gear be attainable through WvW?

It appears with the new Flame and Frost: Prelude update that laurels will be a new way to gain ascended gear. That is great! But it seems we can only get laurels once a day. And with more and more ascended gear being released, we (people who don’t do FotM) are being left behind (in comparison to PvErs), despite being more time in WvW and been contributing more.
With the release of Ascended amulets and more infusions I fear WvWers are being left further behind power-wise in our own domain

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/january-2013/

This is exactly what I meant:

Question is, do they consider this their “WvW available method”?

Anyone read anything on getting ascended gear through WvW?
I’d rather earn it through WvW than have to log on daily for a month to get it
(And doing FotM is out of the question, I hit 80 to not have to PvE anymore)

zhonnika.1784:

Only a wvw player knows that watergate is more than a shady political scandal.

Haha this is hilarious!
These are all great guys, keep um coming!

Archer.1658:

saiyr.3071:

Dhampyr.2104:

saiyr.3071:

Dhampyr.2104:

Oozo.7856:

Acelerion.6820:

Does kaining run any small group stuff or is it all for the realm business?

Kaineng on an individual basis is one of the least skilled servers we have gone up against. Maguuma is much better in terms of individual skill overall.

But, what Kaineng has that Maguuma doesn’t are multiple no-skill 30-40 mobile guild zergballs. And, they’ve picked up even more of this cheese in the last couple of days.

Your face. No U.

Good one

Sorry, deleted the original. Started to type a response, then realized I’m tired of responding to “Kaineng sucks” posts. So, it turned into that. ;-)

Ha, fair enough. I’ll admit I chuckled a little.

Archer.1658:

Kaineing has a lot more people, but Maguuma has the a good amount of numbers + good open combat skills which Kaineing lacks.

I find it a little offputting that Ehmry Bay has found a server that they would bet against vs Maguuma. :P

Heres the deal. Ehmry Bay has always shined when it comes to individual skill and open combat. We have just always lacked the numbers. I may dislike Maguuma, but I admit out of any server I’ve faced they have have some great skills. Now that you guys have even more people, I am sure you’d put Kaineing into the ground given the chance. Let me reiterate the past couple days vs Kaineing.

Me: Strolling, killing off bad kaineing lalalala
Me: Shrieks KAINEING ZERG OF 40+ INC RUN RUN RUn (impossible im a guardian)
Kaineing: Hey we killed you 40v1 but will still laugh and dance on your body. (true story, even got screenshots and I invited a one of them to party).
Me: Afk eating dinner.

I came from Ehmry Bay just recently, and I have noticed it is much less organized than I thought it would be. Running around with other people there made me feel a little unsafe since sometimes they couldn’t hold their own and would run and abandon me. Now that i’m in Kaineing I feel much better running if just with one other person since they seem to know what their doing much better (atleast the level 80 people ive ran around with). I think we do well on our own (individual skill wise and against the same number of enemies as we have our own).

Slamz.5376:

Darxio.5672:

What you have is Duke going up against a middle school in a game of football. It’s not fun to watch or participate in for anyone other than Duke, who gets to beat up the weak.

I seriously doubt it’s fun for them either.

The hurp-durp types will lol it up over being able to kill a dolyak with 45 people but even that will get old after 3 weeks, which is exactly what Kaineng has been doing. I’m sure a number of them are regretting the decision to all jump on a bottom tier server, not realizing it would guarantee them 5+ weeks of no competition.

Sure you “win” but winning doesn’t get you anything and in fact you end up getting almost no karma, XP or badges because most nights you can’t get into a good fight (the 1-2 zones with a fight will have long queues).

Ehmry has been in that position a couple times when we got pushed into the bottom tier, which was basically the two servers with no population. Owning the map with 650+ points is pret-ty useless and boring for the winner too.

Yeah most of the time it isn’t fun (when numbers aren’t equal). But sometimes you still encounter the very exciting small scale group fights over a group of us (Kaineng) trying to take back one of your supply camps with a whole lot of resistance on your end.

Rinzler.8072:

Causic.3798:

Niim.9260:

rubber.5324:

This suggests that stealth in WvW should be looked at as it is:
Not fun to to play against, maybe fun to play as, and is not something other profession can achieve.

Just to be clear someone playing a mesmer, a class that has stealth, clones, confusion stacks, into the void, and moa is complaining about thieves being ‘not fun to play against’?

Mesmers are fun to fight against. You can see the skill it takes to use those skills effectively.
Thieves? Not so much. They either kill you to start or run off when you try and kill them.
I at least know that if a mesmer messes up I will take it down. Thieves just run off like kittens(self censored, cant believe that word isn’t censored) and come back seconds later.

I play a guardian and a necro and i have no issues taking out thieves. Def a lrn2play issue here.

And if your class isnt particalry strong against a certain class, guess what? back off and stop running around solo. Some classes are better at soloing than others, and some are better with groups around.

Yeah definitely true, as a Warrior I always run in groups of at least 2 since usually thieves come one at a time. Not saying I get to kill them, but we get to where were going

Edited.
@ Professor Sensei.2941
Thanks for clearing that up, makes sense

covenn.7165:

Causic.3798:

Theres never only one elementalist in WvW If that was the case I would be fine with it. Multiple elementalist stacking AoE drop people too fast for no risk on their part.

Only stupid people that dont move out of circles. Staff elementalist AE is painfully easy to dodge. Heck, you can even move out of the area most of the time if you pay attention to animations without even wasting a dodge.

By the way, I got hit by 2 rangers the other day and they destroyed me. Nerf them please.

That is exactly my point, a small group of people can control an area just by spamming AoE in a door or gateway. It is no skill.
As to the 2 Ranger destroying you part, im not saying im the one dying to elementalists (id say boost their 1 vs 1, id like to see them have alternative builds that more worth using in WvW), im just saying that they prevent capturing of points unskillfully by laying down AoE.
Though I will drop this topic (we will never come to agree, much like me and thieves), ANet will do as it pleases regardless of either of our arguments.

Churchill.8714:

Meteor shower doesn’t hit for 4k…lol

Stop going into WvW upleveled. A glass meteor shower barely hits be for ever 2k and then you can go ahead and get away from it because it takes forever to full cast.

Theres never only one elementalist in WvW If that was the case I would be fine with it. Multiple elementalist stacking AoE drop people too fast for no risk on their part.

Scouting for thieves will be way more of a pain than scouting for mesmers…
Great video though, how is it that you kept that field up the whole time? Was it your friend besides you?

Papaj.9035:

Causic.3798:

In melee you can get stunned, pulled, immobilized, etc.
Can’t even get hundred blades off before being CCed and pulled sometimes.
In the back? nothing but stray shots.
.

0/10 don’t troll again. You think being out of melee range prevents this from happening? That is half the reason kiting is near impossible to do and why the damage disparity being so mismatched is an issue more so than a few idiots who can’t hit dodge roll or strafe. So many immobilizes/stuns with a 400-600 range, couple those with the constant stream of gap closers on melee weapons and being ranged is just nerfing your damage in battle. I’ll give you melee runs a higher risk, but I can’t hit 2 buttons that lock someone at 600+ range and drop a full tank spec from 100 to 50 in < 3 seconds, melee get to do that once they close the gap to 600.

P.S. – Try stability next time, or maybe a knockdown before you 100 Blades.

Way to lose credibility by proving your losing because as we all know only losers bash.
Now on to the REAL topic at hand.
Of course being in the back prevents you from all those things, name one AoE immobilize or pull that isn’t stupidly obvious (mesmer curtain is more than obvious).
I did not understand much of what you tried to say after that (all the italicized), it was so awfully phrased I will not try to decipher what your trying to say. Clarify what your trying to say and ill try and counter it. As to the stability/ knockdown thing, why should people up close HAVE to use a stability(that only lasts 5 seconds might I add, then have to retreat) while people in the back can attack all the time (and do just as much damage, 4k Meteor Shower is painfully OP, especially considering it is 1200 range at the center, so it reaches furcher than that) with no need of one. Also, I never use hundred blades, its way to obvious. Hundred blades is much too situational for a self root attack while i’m in front lines.

I think hitting them and showing the numbers would be a better solution. That way whacking around actually proves useful, as well as AoE because they can see where those attacks are but we don’t even know if the skill is effective or not.

Can we get some input from Devs as to what direction you are going with this?

I just cant believe they are fixing AoE before this.
I find it pretty ridiculous.

Niim.9260:

rubber.5324:

This suggests that stealth in WvW should be looked at as it is:
Not fun to to play against, maybe fun to play as, and is not something other profession can achieve.

Just to be clear someone playing a mesmer, a class that has stealth, clones, confusion stacks, into the void, and moa is complaining about thieves being ‘not fun to play against’?

Mesmers are fun to fight against. You can see the skill it takes to use those skills effectively.
Thieves? Not so much. They either kill you to start or run off when you try and kill them.
I at least know that if a mesmer messes up I will take it down. Thieves just run off like kittens(self censored, cant believe that word isn’t censored) and come back seconds later.

Papaj.9035:

Causic.3798:

Poor play is punished through repairs (things still break if you die)
Easy play has not been punished (stand in the back firing AoEs and getting more kills, badges, and loots than anyone else)

Pretty sure I could roll a Thief/Warrior and go run into the faces of zergs and double my current kill count in a matter of a month compared to sitting back firing off that 3 second cast AoE. When AoEs do the damage of 100 Blades or Steal/Backstab/CnD chains in a comparable amount of time, then you can say that the ‘easy play’ is unpunished.

Risk vs Reward.
In melee you can get stunned, pulled, immobilized, etc.
Can’t even get hundred blades off before being CCed and pulled sometimes.
In the back? nothing but stray shots.
Anyone running in the front lines deserves more loots than people sitting in the back with nothing to lose.

Jinks.2057:

Ceregon.3581:

Jinks.2057:

To the TL 100blades+haste War and all the other Kain players in your BL @ Redbriar today…..

You should be ashamed of yourselves….down right ashamed

Funny… this coming from what I would assume to be the group with 3 thieves / mesmer and a d/d ele? lol, cull much? FOTM much? You should be ashamed that we beat you at least half the fights with a normal group.

A normal group of 10-15+ vs 4 than yes you are correct.

I find this quite the norm from Kain. It saddens me b/c I figured w/ all the xfers you would think some good players would have moved.

Assuming is bad.
Fought two terrible thieves yesterday from Emhry Bay. With culling issues you’d figure they would do much better. All thieves there suck? No.

Victory.2879:

Unless they are specifically looking at nerfing dagger storm so that they can actually be damaged during that long spin by arrows AND stop them stealthing for 10 seconds afterwards then any other changes can be binned too. THAT is the most OP aoe in the game, luckily most thiefs are too scared to try using it or the forums would be full of complaints about it too (as well as backstabbers).

AOE more than single target damage? Let’s see: 8k steal/mug, 6k skill, 6k cnD (oh look I’m invisible again and your downed), not even using backstab, all in under a second.

Give me an aoe that does that sort of single target damage, takes less less one second to cast, etc and THEN think of nerfing it.

Any nerfs to most aoe’s (except dagger storm, which makes the thief INVINCIBLE against rangers for the duration) should be confined to sPVP only. A lot of aoe’s need buffing not nerfing if you ever want to move away from the zerg mentality.

I laughed a little at how you used (OP) thieves as your point of reference.
Try comparing the damage of Necro or Rangers instead, that would make your point much more valid.
@ Papaj.9035
Poor play is punished through repairs (things still break if you die)
Easy play has not been punished (stand in the back firing AoEs and getting more kills, badges, and loots than anyone else)

For me it would defy the point of being in a group entirely. (At least Pugs anyway.)
I only stay with people near my area to counter thieves since they are kings of 1 vs 1 and I would I fall to a disadvantage otherwise.
At the moment, even bad players can contribute by at least ressing me and giving me a second chance.
Thieves get much to easy kills for ressing to be removed from this game.

Rangers or Necros!
They are so behind other classes something like this could put them on par!
(As long as its not Thieves or Elementalists. Those are much too strong already, or atleast not underpowered like the above mentioned.)

You guys win the last discussion. And I do agree that ANet should prioritize on what they are fixing better!

Zonzai.2341:

Causic.3798:

I think this is spot on. In Statistics you learn you have to use random sampling to get accurate data (random posts from forums doesn’t count since its still not random enough, they would have to include everyone who plays to get legit information), using solely information from one source is inaccurate as we may (and do) have certain bias that people not posting on forums do not have (sorry this was strangely phrased). They should work on problems as they see fit, since they are the ones who know more than we do (since they created the cooldowns, cast times, etc.)

And what about the massive threads asking for changes to be made that get ignored? You’re suggesting that because you took a statistics class, this form of feedback is not part of the consumer feedback equation? Analysis shows very clearly that when voluntary customer feedback is ignored it is detrimental to the product.

Here’s What Happens When You Don’t Listen To Your Customers’ Complaints
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-01-19/strategy/30641945_1_customer-service-negatives-complaints

The complaint is a signal that should not be ignored. When customers complain, they are giving your company an opportunity to fix what is wrong and improve your business. Why? Customers act in their own self-interest, and they are in a unique position to tell your company the unvarnished truth…

Online: The danger of ignoring customer complaints
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/edde4a1c-264b-11e1-9ed3-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz2IT5BQUb9

“The message to companies from their customers is clear: if you want us to use social media to talk to you, you had better be ready to talk back,” says Josh March, chief executive of Conversocial.

He warns that retailers who do not treat social media complaints seriously “risk losing not just their current customers, but vast numbers of potential customers, who now have a window to see how you respond to – or ignore – your customers in full public view.”

Why Ignoring Social Media Complaints Is a Huge Mistake
http://www.forbes.com/sites/rogerdooley/2012/09/18/complaints/

In his book, The End of Business as Usual, social media thought leader Brian Solis displays a social media word cloud for a major (but unnamed) airline. The dominant references (fail, worst, sucks, hate, wtf, etc.) are emblematic of what happens when unhappy customers dominate a one-sided conversation.

Hawkmoon.5849:

Zonzai.2341:

Right now forum feedback has primarily been ignored by ANet. (Even though they keep saying otherwise.) The only people they really pay any heed to are the “e-sport” PvP people. And even then, it’s not much.

^
This.

Case in point: drop rate/DR issue thread(s). Players make a thread, thread gets 1200 responses, thread gets locked. “Official” thread gets started, and it takes nearly 2 months to get a Dev reply, which basically said, “we’re still looking into it, it takes time”.

I could list other examples, but this one is fairly prominent.

As for paying attention to the PvP’ers… this is clearly not the case, either, as is evident by the decline of sPvP and the clear intent to ignore requests for different game modes besides something conquest-based that relies so heavily on bunker builds.

Agreed. They are adding new game modes, though I think that has nothing to do with the feedback. Like I said, they give very little heed to sPvP players. They know how to ruin their game best, that’s for sure.

That is not what I am saying at all. Of course it is to be considered. It should be looked in to. What I am saying is that forum poster’s opinions are biased. ANet should make judgements based on other sources, their own. People on forums are never happy and such should not be trusted. People complained about not having anything to work towards and they added Ascension gear. After they added the gear people complained that they shouldn’t have added it. People will always complain for something they want (or think they want).
Complaints should be made after something is done when all the details of it are known, not before made up solely on assumptions.
@ killcannon : “If the community does not wish to give feedback, they are irrelevant.”
Your opinions are no more important than anyone else’s. (The nicest way I can say this)

Direksone.3867:

ArenaNet isn’t simply nerfing everything. They are bringing damage down of some things, because they are simply too powerful and it makes the game unbalanced. Call it nerfing, I call it balancing. Also some of the issues you point out that you find crap are things that are also not working as intended, such as the WP system. It makes people lazy and sloppy. This ought to make it more difficult as there is less room for error.

If you would actually read and listen to them carefully, they wish to have no differences between PvP/WvW and PvE for a character so people get familiar with them and the character operates everywhere the same. Sometimes this means a certain class is very good in a certain instance, this is looked at, and mostly, corrected.

No offense, but if you in the future post threads like this, make it more easy to read and watch your spelling. I’m not being some grammar freak, but it takes the credibility out of your post, at least it did for me.

I agree with you, especially the last part about losing credibility due to grammar errors. (Not the typos, those are fine, just text talk since it doesn’t seem profession in a discussion about a serious topic.)
People are just overreacting to something that could end up being nothing.

killcannon.2576:

It doesn’t matter if the forums are a minority or not. The posters here are some of the only people giving public feedback. The forums are a tool the same as any other, if the community wants to give feedback, it’s only a couple mouse clicks away. People in the community are aware of the forums, Reddit, other forums, et al. The forum posters are a valid tool for feedback for any issue and if the rest of the community does not wish to give feedback to devs or community at large then it is more their fault than anyone else’s. It’s the game you play, if you want to see change, take action. If you don’t take any action, then who is at fault?

Minority or not is irrelevant, the information haven gotten is inaccurate basing it on one source alone, since its skrewed to one bias or another (be it WvW for people who play WvW or Pve for people who play Pve more often). Just because the rest of the community does not wish to give feedback does not mean your feedback is the only to consider(which is why they would rather figure out the pros and cons to things on their own so they can take the non-posters into account).

Erasculio.2914:

nethykins.7986:

Forum feedback would show:

Nothing.

The forum community is only a very small part of the total players. To make things worse, it’s not a general sample – it’s a specific subgroup of players. And to make things even worse, it’s a specific subgroup including many of the worst kinds of players in the game.

I’m not happy with the idea of the AoE nerf. But to say “no one in the forum complained about it so it’s not an issue” is ridiculous – the forum does not represent what players think, much less what is or isn’t an issue in the game.

Players are not game designers. More often than not, players are not capable of doing good game design. Developers should not ask players to tell them how to design a game, since this will more often than not lead to failure after failure due to lack of long term planning, lack of care about the impact changes have in the game as a whole, and the self-centered nature of most suggestions.

I think this is spot on. In Statistics you learn you have to use random sampling to get accurate data (random posts from forums doesn’t count since its still not random enough, they would have to include everyone who plays to get legit information), using solely information from one source is inaccurate as we may (and do) have certain bias that people not posting on forums do not have (sorry this was strangely phrased). They should work on problems as they see fit, since they are the ones who know more than we do (since they created the cooldowns, cast times, etc.)

I see no reason why Arrow Carts should ever hit less than an ele’s meteor shower.
Professions should not have area control compared to things that need supply to make.
Compensation for said change should also be accounted for. (Boost some 1 on 1 to make them worth using!)
I welcome this change with open arms

Poster. Still waiting on culling to get fixed. Plus my favorite classes are gimped (mechanic wise) in WvW as I dislike the big 3 so hopefully they balance better (fix the bugs/mechanics) in the future.

Ratphink.4751:

Softspoken.2410:

Ratphink.4751:

You’re arguing that people who complain about poor forum etiquette are a bigger problem than those who flood this forum with the same threads every day. You are claiming that they don’t bring any ‘documented problems to the table’ when this entire sub forum is rife with documentation of the problem. Every day brings new threads complaining about known issues. Every time people speak out about how many complaints are misinformed and largely exaggerated they are brow-beaten as being ‘care bears’ or ‘anet cheerleaders’.

Why, exactly, do minions stop attacking targets that the Necromancer is attacking?

I’ll try to be more clear with this. This forum is rife with documentation that the vast majority of users who utilise it show poor forum etiquette by spamming it with threads containing the same complaints (Necros sux, I’m changing classes, I’m quitting the game, Minions sux, it’s not a necro). Apologies for confusing you.

EDIT: Also, to humour your ‘sharp wit’, I’d like to say that the only minion I ever use is Jagged Horror (because I regretfully have to in the Toughness line) and that Minion regularly attacks who I’m targeting and even in Orr I rarely see it draw aggro on its own. 9/10 when it does draw agros, I accidentally spammed the Tab and started attacking another mob.

There is method to their madness. They are complaining to get ANet to get something done.
Your complaining seems counter intuitive unless you play some other class and want Necros to stay as they are.
So I agree with the past poster in saying that the complainers of the complainers are worse than the original complainers.

Thieves get to pick and choose their fights (afks or single people in the back), shouldnt Rangers have something their good at? Finally they can set a fight to their advantage
The pet healing after it dies is still a bug and that should be fixed though :P

Brett.4305:

I saw the dev banner and got my hopes up. Clicked and read the top post.
THEN I SAW THE DATE.

Yeah so did I

I think everyones overreacting.
Without details I don’t see why everyone is worried about little things like auto attacks, i’m sure those are not the AoEs they are referring to. They may nerf just certain skills, they may nerf everything (and if they do im sure they will make some other builds more viable for those classes in compensation, which may make us even better off)

Mif.3471:

Causic.3798:

holding a choke point by having small numbers stack their AoEs and not let the larger numbers get to them is a problem.

No, it’s a good thing.
It’s an example of intelligent play beating a giant moronic zerg.

It may be intelligent but it isn’t skillful or fair to those with less AoE skills.
Still doesn’t show how its a good thing?

Matt Witter.6982:

There are a few different knobs we can turn in regards to AoE some of the bigger ones being:
Radius of the AoE
Frequency of the AoE Damage
Damage of the AoE
Max Targets of the AoE

Currently, some players causing the AoE are able to do more damage to one person while also controlling a portion of the field, compared to a player with single target damage.
In our balance discussions we always look at what these changes could do to PvE as well as PvP. Any changes we make will undergo a lot of testing, both internal and by our trusted alpha team. It is important to understand that we are not doing a blanket nerf to all AE’s or a dramatic adjustment of the damage AoE’s can do. There may be some cases where players can build for AoE damage, but are just not viable or other cases where AoE is clearly the dominate way to build, and as such the other builds get left on the side lines. Its these classes/builds that we are concerned about.

I agree with bold, holding a choke point by having small numbers stack their AoEs and not let the larger numbers get to them is a problem. (I know you can have guards block and other stability/invincibility skills to get past stacked red circles but is it even fair the small number does not have to waste a utility)
Also id like to add that having a smaller number spam AoE on entrances and not allow people in is not skill in the least bit.
And I really hope the italicized means that other builds may get a boost to make them as useful as AoE builds! Looking forward to what they come up with.

Record and post them here!
@Magnus Pym: Great vid! I dont even play mesmer but it was fun to watch

Wow that video is sad,
and not realistic in the least bit.
It was a stroke of luck for those 4 guys that not one decent player chased them , AND everyone was stacking for easy kills.
Ive server jumped quite a bit, and not once have I seen such fail from a large group of people o-o

Oh ok I see now, people may be able to out-heal AOE if they nerf it. So a bigger force becomes unstoppable. Thanks guys

I was under the impression zergs (or people in them) used Area Of Effect skills as their primary way of fighting since they can hit more people at once.
Wouldn’t nerfing AOE also nerf zergs since they are less productive with AOE? And since they are more productive through close ranged fighting wouldn’t it help small scale fighting?
Understood it is less skill based (If standing on top of a ramp and spamming AOE skills is really considered skill, and I personally do not think it is) since a smaller number can pigeon-hole a larger number and scare them not to advance (through red circles of substantial damage from an “organized” group of stacked elementalist).

Can anyone explain to me (quote me please so its easier to find) how lowering the damage of AOE actually makes Zergs stronger? (Serious question, i’m only looking at it from one side and id really like to see the other side of it.)

Doomdesire.9365:

Causic.3798:

Doomdesire.9365:

Columba.9730:

Samhayn.2385:

Columba.9730:

Samhayn.2385:

Columba.9730:

Other games have stealth break on damage and break upon attacking. I don’t understand why this game made stealth even more powerful than it is in other games. Even in other games stealth causes mass complaints although it’s less powerful.

Stealth lasts 4 sec (speced) unless its shadows refuge. No other game limits stealth to this short of a duration. Hence the reason it does not break on damage.
If it broke on damage it would be useless and we would be low hp/ low armor warriors with no group support.

I don’t buy it. I have a top of the line system and I rarely see a thief at all when he attacks me.

You don’t buy what? Stealth durations? Go to the wiki and look it up

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_thief_skills

If you are not seeing them its culling, it’s an Anet side problem and has nothing to do with how good you computer is.

ok, so since i can’t tab target them, and I can’t see them, how is it different than stealth again since they can stealth soon thereafter and I never can target them?

It isn’t, but why is that a reason to nerf a class, when culling is already being worked on? Opinions are nice, but yours isn’t helping. Be patient. Wait, and it will all get fixed eventually.

You don’t nerf a class because of a broken game mechanic that can be fixed. You fix that game mechanic.

BTW, you can tab target them, as it neglects culling, but tab targetting only works on targets in your line of sight, where he is not likely to be.

I think your looking at this the wrong way. If a class is broken as is don’t you think it would be fair to every other class that it is temporarily balanced to the current situation. I see no reason people cant exploit other glitches (and get banned for it) but when they exploit this (yes, it is an exploit) ANet just looks the other way :/ Seems like they have either high hopes of fixing this soon, or they are just big fans of Thieves. I personally think they’ve taken much longer than they should have to fix this and expect them to take even longer (for something that should have been fixed to start).

Edit: I would like to add that this is coming from someone who ONLY WvWs. As it stands its more frustrating than fun to play with current culling issues.

But why when culling is going to be fixed soon anyways? If you read the post, they already said a lot of the changes were being tested and going to be rolled out when ready. Anet isn’t going to ninja nerf the thief anytime soon, even if they decided it needed a nerf, it’d probably be implemented at the same time around culling.

If culling if fixed, and thieves are still “deemed OP”, then we move from there. I also don’t believe you realize what culling is and what exploiting is in relation to this. Culling will happen whether you go into stealth or not in wvw, with no choice from the thief player. Culling or not, thieves are going to utilize full stealth. Me, and many of my fellow thieves don’t go out into the field using stealth thinking (hey, I’m going to abuse culling!). It’s more like “Going to use stealth, because I have it!”. Culling itself isn’t an exploit, it’s a deliberate system put into place in order to have WvW run more smoothly, and this is the side effect. Anet is working on introducing optimizations in order to remove the culling system. They could if they wanted to right now, except WvW would be unplayable in zerg fights.

All is really explained in the link I posted earlier.

I dont think “soon” will come as soon as you think, so id atleast like a temporary solution. And to the second bold point, I understand you dont “plan” on taking advantage of it. It is much like Rangers using Guard up walls, ANet has never mentioned it being against the rules, but I still do not feel it should be done regardless.
EDIT:
I dont mean for thieves not to use stealth till its fixed, that would be absurd.
I dont blame the thieves as much as I do ANet for not having done anything about it. (Ranger Guard up walls as well, if that is indeed being exploited. Otherwise point is null.)

Ordibble.3092:

Causic.3798:

…which makes no sense as to why someone with heavy armor is in the back of the scout and cloth classes.

Throughout most of military history, armies sent in their light armoured and mobile forces to harry the enemy and probe for weak points before the heavies went in. So just wait for your auxiliaries to do their job before diving into the fray

This is enlightening
Then their logic pans out then :P

mathras.2450:

Firstly, even if I make the money back, it’s a hassle I can do without (and have done without in the last two MMOs I played, WAR and SWToR). It feels like a step backwards, and utterly needless – although in a game in which you can legally buy gold with real money I can see why they did it.

Secondly, it will make me play more cowardly. I already tend to play in quite a reserved manner in these games, as I dislike dying (well, it’s no fun for me if I don’t get into it…) but if I know I’ll be losing money each time, I will be much more likely to surf the zerg and stay out of harm’s way, instead of using my class to its potential. I imagine there will be others who think like this too.

I agree, it is a step backwards to have to pay to fix gear. I don’t play my warrior as much because anytime I try and be the front line as I thought we would be in groups, we get stunned and immobilized to death(yes I have Knights exotic armor, and soldiers runes for shout healing). Its not rewarding in the least bit, you do better with a rifle from the back, which makes no sense as to why someone with heavy armor is in the back of the scout and cloth classes. Also fear of death (having to run back to join the fight later on and paying for repairs) leads me to abandon my comrades mid-fight to run from the enemy.
Also if a map in WvW is failing I am less reluctant to join the fights that really need me because I know I will not make up for the money wasted in trying to help. It does seem like it punishes you for helping in losing fights.

KensaiZen.3740:

Commander achievement should be unlocked when you hit a target of a combination of other achievmrnts.

Sacking
Defending
Escorting
Upgrading
Supplying
Building sieges
Enemies killed

Once all have been maxed out then the commander title and icon is unlocked. Paying for commander can breed many commanders people just should not follow as they are neither skilled or understand WvW.

Just for kicks though just put paid+multi achievments together.

This exactly.
Kills are a joke, counting kills is way to easy.
The 100g is not that bad of an idea either if only it couldnt be bought (which there is now way to tell) since it would require the Guild as a whole to contribute to make people commanders.
I can get on my level 30 elementalist and AoE away and get more kills than say my Warrior who has less mobbing ability, but contributes just as much in a zerg (through shouts and banners).

Seems like a waste on a Warrior,
But on a Mesmer i’m all for it!