Guild Wars 2

Personally I dont see a reason in those differences either.
7500 hp difference from lowest to highest is simply put too much.

f.e. the ele gets hit with a 5k damage skill and he tries to run for his life. The warrior gets hit for the same amount and just continues his rampage.

I´ve been maining engineer since december 2012. I love the class because of its build-in whackiness, the cc-tye gameplay and of course explosions :P
Though I love the profession overall I really can´t stand decap builds. They´re simply no fun to play. Especially when the build gets mostly countered by bugs.

I´ve read the OP and must disagree with one thing: Decap engineers are not unkillable. I can think of at least one build that can reliable kill a decap engi 1v1 in a comparably small amount of time. Though it is highly unviable in the current meta.
Also heard from a few condi warriors that they could kill a condi engi… Not confirmed yet.

My guess is that it will open a lot more counters to decap engineers if AR was changed/removed. Seriously, noone likes that trait
They should change AR to something more active or at least make it not give complete condi immunity.

Skill-wise it´s really hard to balance the engineers knockbacks without heavily hitting its profession purpose (area denial) or its power builds.
Especially rifle is a highly needed crutch for many engineer powerbuilds to set their burst up.

Another option would be to reduce engineers healsources or reduce the scaling of healing power. But I can´t see this happening as it seems that Anet wants engineer to remain a knockback-bunker-ish thing that sits on a point and… area denial… duh. No, really on most patches I can think of engineer´s healing coefficients were buffed.
(When kitrefinement was removed super elixirs heal coefficient was increased by 100%, the healing turret change, bomb healing coefficient change +50%, backpack regenerator coefficient change)

No, let´s be honest. High survivability and knockbacks just don´t go well together in a point-capture mode. Outside of that its… ridiculously useless.
So if I had the possibility to take it into my hands I´d change back most of the coefficients to their original state and try to make a cc/burst roamer happen.
Why?
Let´s be honest, a damage roamer that actively needs its knockbacks for its burst and defense (and needs to actually time them well and not just randomly pushing someone off point and staying alive) is way more fun to play.

In other words: I´d try to make a 30/10/0/0/30 (turret knockback, static discharge + new explosion line trait) burst build happen
Why?
For the glory of whackiness of course!

No… just no.
Great for any bunker build, sure, but…. no.

A pvp match´s pace these days is already at rather slow point, no need to make it even slower…

If I had to directly compare thief with other glassy high damage roamer builds 1o1…
I´d say the main reasons that thief comes out on top is the class´s ability to burst with no big tell and by its elusive nature it´s hard to setup a burst on a thief.

Just like mesmer thief is practically build for berserker builds with its many in-build mitigation skills. With their elusiveness they´re pros at staying alive by repositoning and evading. The problem is that those strengths are most other berserker build´s weaknesses because
dem builds need a good setup to land their burst, which the thief can easily negate by porting or simply pressing 3 or 5(yes, simplifying and talking s/p here :P).
And when the thief charges to attack? Other builds can reckon of a combo with a port and s/p 3. And that´s for most players really kitten hard to evade.
And don´t forget the awesome damage!

As a matter of fact most other berserker builds simply fall prey to that combination (elusiveness, little to no setup, high damage). It doesn´t matter that other builds have far more damage or can even kill the hated decap engi in record time. Fact is they can’t prevail as soon as a thief is in play.

I´d also like to talk about how to bring thief in line so other awesome damage builds have a chance to shine, but I honestly have no idea how to accomplish that

In the core of your statement you´re definitely right. Balancing should be done according to solid numbers gathered ingame and not mainly on the opinion on forum users.
The reason is simple: Why do a lot of people visit the forums instead of playing the game? I´ll take chances and say that a lot of people are here to whine about something. Also you can´t say whether a person on the forums has ever played pvp, if he played the last few months at all, if he´s biased as hell or if he´s a pro.

On the other hand I don´t believe that they´re balancing ONLY according to the opinion of forum users but rather see it as a possibility to get kind of a dialogue with the community about what´s going on.

I have similiar thoughts on the state of pvp.
I´m just an ordinary player who mainly plays pvp together with friends for fun. But even with changes to pvp rewards (yay moneyz) I became less motivated to play the gamemode. Though that patch was awesome and definitely a big step in the right direction.
What takes the fun out of pvp for me is that we have to wait sooo long for balance patches.
I´m not sure whether it´s possible in terms of resources but I´d prefer to see more regular small balance patches. Maybe every 1-2 months, heck even 3 months would be okay as long as it prevents the game to be stuck in one rather unhealthy meta for over half a year.

… I feel like crying :/ My dear engineer won´t get a viable version of kit refinement or turret buffs.
but okay that would be too good to be true…

JinDaVikk.7291:

According to today’s leaked patch notes decap engi got some nice buffs.

Kite refinement 4s magnetic aura for med kit + 10s cd. This if possible to micro manage could be very very very strong.

Aegis cd from15s to 10s. LOL another good buff.

Lame buff but toolkit 2 got cooldown reduced.

Nerf: AR went down 5 percent. Easier to get condition bursted…
O wait necros got nerfed. lol

Actually I´d be more concerned about the 10 sec of fire shield engineer is supposed to get with flame thrower and KR on a 10s CD AND the cooldown reduction on napalm and incendiary ammo…
Decap engineers with lot of burning and might anyone?

Tei´s right. They didnt mention anything about the Overcharge Skill. So if the Overcharge is still at 15 seconds it would be no big benefit to the engineer to place the turret every 10 seconds…

kubetz.3058:

People were really complaining about KR engineer running with FT in current state? Probably same people that were getting killed by tanky guardian because they suicided to retaliation.

yeeeh that was actually my bad english skill striking again :P what I wanted to say was that we´ll see a lot of qq in the future

Okay… I highly doubt that they´ll let us pick our good ol Healing turret up every 10 seconds… In terms of numbers it´s already a kitten powerful heal with a kitten amazing water field… there MUST be some kind of nerf coming for it…

And for the KR buff… I already see people qq’ing about FT-KR engineers that can put lots of burning on them, gain might from it AND still be tanky as hell WITHOUT investing 20 points for incendiary powder.
From a tpvp-point that all sounds disastrous but funny as hell xD

also from my point of view they made at least 2 toolbelt skills (incendiary ammo and launch personal battering ram) even more sd-compatible…

In my point of view those are some daaaamn heavy buffs O_O

Awesome and really helpful videos there

I´d love to know what you think about decap engis…
And what do you think about engineer power builds in pvp?

hihey.1075:

K U T M.4539:

hihey.1075:

Terrahero.9358:

Acandis.3250:

There is literally no counterplay.

Knockbacks = CC-effect
Stability = immune to CC-effects

You literally dont know what literally means.

Throw Mine says hi.

Excuse me while I strip your boons every 15 seconds

Sorry if I confused Throw Mine with Minefield (16s CD, 5boons ripped)

Aaaactually due to a bug 20s CD, 5 boons ripped

1. Elementalist
2. Ranger
3. Engineer

What build are you even talking about? Are you just hating engineers in general or do you have anything to back up your request for nerfs?

Like serious maths that state that engineers have higher healing, condiremoval, conditiondamage and everythign else than… say… warrior? A necro?
But then again you´d need to inform yourself about the engineer, its mechanics and -godforbid- actually tell us in detail what you think is too op on an engineer.

Right now this is just some guy saying: “Hey it´s op, I can´t give exact reason why and I can´t tell which spec exactly it is but please nerf the whole class because it´s like old dd ele, thanks.”

Actually I stopped taking you serious when you started talking about kit engineers and elixir c. Have you ever even played the class? Even informed yourself about it on the forums? Read one of the many thread´s on how to counter it?

I agree that AR needs a change. Can´t tell much about diamond skin… until now I only met one Ele with diamond skin who was actually somewhat hard to kill.
Generally I don´t like the idea of having immunity at all…

Instead of Immunity on AR I´d like to see some more condiremoval. Maybe something like: “Some Elixir-Gun skills are now actually elixirs and work with Formula 409, etc”
or “Gadgets remove 2 conditions upon use” (Engineers really need more gadget traits)
or “Conditions now only have half duration. The effect triggers below 50% health”.

Engineer:

1. Condi Necro
2. Good thieves
3. Good Warriors

Yay, Teldo! fangirl scream
Thanks for telling us that he streams

No matter what build I play I am always terrified of condi necros
Other than that I have hard times against a very well played thief/mesmer, sometimes even a hambow warrior.
Somehow I don´t feel as bad against spirit rangers or mm necros…

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Kit Refinement – Reverted to original functionality.

Is the least likely change to happen on the entire list

By now it feels like even thieves and mesmers have more condiremove than we do ;D

Jokes aside I wouldn´t mind if they changed fumigate to remove at least 1 condition from the engineer himself upon use
or change AR to somehow remove condis instead of giving immunity.
Or change projectiles that pass through lightfields to remove conditions from the player instead of removing conditions from the guys they pass through…

It´s amazing how bunker-ish builds with the same utilities can be so different.
I also use tk, ft and eg but my Traits are 0/0/20/30/20 with no big surprises like “Kit Refinement” build in.

Your build definitely inspired me to try Accelerant Packed turrets in my build.
I´ve been in love with the trait for a long time now but somehow never used it in a serious build

I just love the engineer´s whackiness. And explosions. And theorycrafting whacky builds with lots of explosions.
Yeh… that pretty much sums up my love for the engineer

Cold Hearted Person.6154:

Cero.5132:

Cold Hearted Person.6154:

Tho, even if the skill will be good, as a gadget it will have only one, freaking one, trait to go whit it, that is speedy gadgets, every other healing skill have atleast few traits that can increas its quality.

True, true…
On the other hand we have Automated Medical Response that goes with every healing skill. I think in this case it kinda makes up for the lack of traits.
Though I hope that they sometime tidy up our long list of “traits that are broken and noone uses” and maybe develop a few gadget traits in their place.

Yep, some boons on gadget use would be nice, like guardians virtue activate aditional boons, but that is a topic for different disscusion.

btw, you didnt happen to hear what is base heal amount for that normal heal, when you didnt get below 1% hp, did you?

I believe it was somewhere around 5k… really a small heal in comparison

Cold Hearted Person.6154:

Tho, even if the skill will be good, as a gadget it will have only one, freaking one, trait to go whit it, that is speedy gadgets, every other healing skill have atleast few traits that can increas its quality.

True, true…
On the other hand we have Automated Medical Response that goes with every healing skill. I think in this case it kinda makes up for the lack of traits.
Though I hope that they sometime tidy up our long list of “traits that are broken and noone uses” and maybe develop a few gadget traits in their place.

Manuhell.2759:

Imho, they were using a cleric amulet in the stream. A soldier amulet wouldn’t have had that few hp. Anyway, we’ll see next week.

I think they specifically mentioned that the base heal is 13k-ish and can scale up to 16k…
but my native tongue isn´t english so maybe I am mistaken o.0

Just watched the stream… guess my earlier assumptions were plain wrong…

In the stream they said the base heal is only a bit lower than 13k and scales really well with healpower, up to 16k-ish…

Well if those are the numbers we get at patch day and if they already implemented the scaling with healing power then AEDs base heal (1%) is 9720.
When I had 999 healing power it went up to 10720. So the healing power coefficient is only 1.
(I think there won´t be many changes to the scaling. I also calculated mesmer and thief hp scaling. It´s much higher)
And the skill isn´t instant as we hoped…
It has no condiremove, no water field, no regeneration, worse scaling with healing power, less hps and longer casttime

So healing turret will still be the healing skill to go for :/

Though I hope I´m wrong and we get a super mega duper healing skill xD

coglin.1867:

That would give it vulnerability procs, 15% chance to proc a 12s bleed, a larger explosion radius, and all in an AoE. That is way over the top.

You got a point there, but…
what if the trait was grandmaster? I think that would for once be a gm trait worth taking.

How about we remove Coated Bullets as a trait, make pistols pierce by default and instead create a trait that makes pistol´s explosions actually an explosion that works with traits like shrapnel etc?

Looks like a heal you activate shortly before you die. This said I´m sure they´re going to balance it around Automated Medical Response.
Healing turret may not be an instant and no “o kitten”-healskill but it still gives a lot of healing for the engineer and his team, a water field, blast finisher, aoe regeneration, has low cooldown and removes 2 conditions.

To keep up with that and yet not be too op aaand considering the trend that engineer skills scale extremely well with healing power and that Anet seems to make a bunker-alternative of us, the skill will need a base heal around the amount of the healing turret and probably an exorbitant scaling with healing power.

So I guess the 1% base heal will be a bit lower than guardian´s signet of resolve but AED will scale better with healign power than SoR.

Anyone else here who wants to share his theories about the new skill?

I always try to get into 1v1 with other engineers I meet.
Just to see what kind of build they´re running and what tricks they have up their sleeve.
Found so many interesting and fun engineer builds and fights this way

So technically… Putting 10 points into tools and 10 points into alchemy will give us 50% vigor uptime and 10s swiftness over a timeframe of 10s (boonduration not included).
With 2x rune of the monk and 2x rune of water and 30 in alchemy we can push it to 7.5 seconds of vigor every 10 seconds in pvp and 15 seconds of swiftness.
Only thing we have to do for this is change kits. Seeing that latey most engineers use at least 2 kits I guess we swap pretty regularly in a fight. So the active play to get these boons is minimal.

Now looking at a trait that gives automatically 50% endurance regeneration – Adrenal Implant.
It´s an investment of 30 points into tools. The trait itself doesnt need swiftness to trigger it. In fact it works completely passive. Though I think that most engineers would still take Speedy Kits if they´d go for it.
So there´s max 15s of swiftness and always 50% endurance regeneration without the possibility to enhance it. All that for 30! points into tools. The trait is a little bit more useful for engineers that use only 1 kit and thus mostly dont swap as regularly.

In my opinion Adrenal Implant as a grandmaster trait is overall still inferior to the Speedy kits/Invigorating Speed combo. I don´t think it should be moved down to master tier but instead it should get an additional effect. Nothing big just a minor tweak so that people actually consider taking it.
Some may argue that Adrenal implant is for people who use only 1 kit and sooo on… But I think that engineers who only use 1 kit should get a boon because they dont have the benefit of the versatility a 2+kit engineer can bring.
Maybe Adrenal Implant could be merged with kit refinement? 1 kit engineers could easily handle the effect and the cooldown wheras 2+kit engineers would need to actually concentrate even more. So it would overall still be a nice trait for 1 kit engineers..

tldr; Bring Adrenal Implant up so that there´s an alternative to the Speedy Kit/ Invigorating Speed Combo. Maybe merge it with Kit refinement?

Hi there,

I´m also looking for a few friendly players to play tPvP with.
I mostly play engineer in all build-variations. The more explosions the build has, the better :P But for real matches I´d prefer to play a more viable build.

I have ts3 and skype. I use both on regular basis.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

kirito.4138:

Without any major changes from patches for the last few months

We have went from OMG Necro OP -> OMG Spirit Ranger OP -> OMG Warrior OP.

And OMG ELE OP before that. Maybe mesmer too at one point.

I remember some point where HGH engi was considered op, too.
Now looking bad… I think hgh engi wasn´t so bad after all :P

You keep talking about warrior having plenty counterbuilds. I´m pretty sure that you mentioned in some other thread that every class has viable possibilities to counter them.
I sincerely doubt that every profession has an effective counter against them. So would you mind to prove that statement in some way?

I ask of this because you mentioned quite often that an engineer can easily counter a warrior with protection injection, power damage and blinds. (So you´re practically talking about tanky a rifle build with bombkit?)
Yet I, as an engineer, don´t feel like countering a warrior with that at all. It´s rather that I take the steps necessary to enhance my lifespan against a good one.

I can rather imagine a mesmer to be a more viable counter against them because they can poop stunbreaks But jokes aside.

I´d be glad to maybe see a video or something of highly viable counters to warriors.

I´ve also fallen in love with static discharge.
It´s fun and all but I have several problems with the lack of utility of the basic sd build. That´s why I tried the Tesla Coil way and put 20 p into explosives for accelerant packed turrets
I´d love to use 20/x/x/10/20 (20p free to spend) with at least 2 turrets (healing and rifle turret. As a potential third I´d take thumber or rocket turret) for sd. But the issues here are the pathing of SD when we use a ground targeted attack.

But the use of turrets and 20 p into explosives opens another problem.
1. The critrate is compared to the originial sd build rather low. you dont have fury on demand and probably need to use critrunes
2. As everyone knows turrets tend to be unreliable :P
3. detonating turrets is a ground targeted skill and static discharge will miss if u dont stand in front of your foe when detonating them. Also the detonation doesnt crit :<

Nevertheless I want to see the faces of the warriors I burst down with this
“Heyyyy a turret ingi, I´ll just jump in there pop stability and be fine!”
Unfortunately for them they dont get knocked back by my turrets because of their stability, eat all turret detonations + static discharge and often eat the entire burst.
That alone is worth playing this spec xD

1. Rewards/Progression
2. Balance
3. Making PvP more part of the game

jmatb.6307:

I haven’t logged in the game in more than a month.

jmatb.6307:

Its hard to figure out why you’re even posting on the PvP forum if you don’t play it lol

I don´t want to call warrior op but I think in their current state they can have too much of everything at once.
I think the problem isn´t with individual skills/traits/sigils but it´s rather that all of them sum up to a cluster of too much awesomeness.

I loooove my engineer. I use it for both, PvE and PvP with good success.
Before that I played Guardian and Mesmer. Now I almost fall asleep everytime I play them :P
They just dont have as much explosions and mightstacking and… Explosions and… variety and did I mention the awesome explosions?

kitten s.7421:

Cero.5132:

Wow that was a bit harsh
There are some points where we share an opinion but I ahve to disagree on others…

I´ll just put something in for #6, because that´s actually the class I play. So it could be that I´m a bit biased :P
As I see it a lot engis, me included, are actually not begging for buffs to the turrets but several bugfixes to all the traits, fire rates and overcharges.
But I also dont want turrets to become too viable, like spirits on ranger. I don´t like when the screen gets all cluttered with them and other stuff on top.

Also I think you´re right about the spot engi has
Currently engineer is neither badly underpowered nor extremely overpowered. Depending on the build it has a rather high or normal skill floor. I think that´s quite the healthy state for a class.

Hey I don’t make the rules I just follow the ones I make. <3

… Do I actually have to understand that logic?

I remember posts some months ago where people asked to balance the game around Warrior.
Funny that the arguments are quite similiar o.0

Wow that was a bit harsh
There are some points where we share an opinion but I ahve to disagree on others…

I´ll just put something in for #6, because that´s actually the class I play. So it could be that I´m a bit biased :P
As I see it a lot engis, me included, are actually not begging for buffs to the turrets but several bugfixes to all the traits, fire rates and overcharges.
But I also dont want turrets to become too viable, like spirits on ranger. I don´t like when the screen gets all cluttered with them and other stuff on top.

Also I think you´re right about the spot engi has
Currently engineer is neither badly underpowered nor extremely overpowered. Depending on the build it has a rather high or normal skill floor. I think that´s quite the healthy state for a class.

Huh, yeh. I think that´s got to do with some crying on the pvp forums about classes that can keep some buffs and conditions permanently up.
I´m not sure how this 5-stack thing will work out, though.

Personally, I wouldn´t mind too much. I´d see it as an invitation to try and get back to power builds…
But that´s just me

Terrahero.9358:

Toss Elixir B: This ability now grants stability to allies, in addition to a random boon. Base recharge increased to 30 seconds.

O_O I´m quite curious about that one… Stability … for us? A dream come true? O_O
… I hope the awakening won´t be too harsh…

Snack.9315:

Actually, rangers have still been getting nerfed. They were only buffed a few times, and those were insignificant.
The main issue -pets- is still there. Until they fix that, they’re the only class hindered by their mechanic.

Thanks for you Feedback Snack, but your princess is in another castle.

Partially I´m happy that engineer doesnt get as much attention as other classes.
What happened to the classes who got Anet´s attention? They either got nerfed or overbuffed.
The only kind of attention I´d like to have is for some bugs.
Turret-bugs, of course. The pathing of Static Discharge… (Both ruin the build I´d love to play :P )

I understand that there are issues that are way more grave in terms of balance.
But just as the majority I´m a bit egoistic and I´d love to see more bugfixes to my dear engineer

In terms of pvp-viability and build-variety I think that engineers are fine. After all we got at least 3 viable pvp-builds (which I admit that most of them take a good amount of know-how).
I think we can at least say that we have more builds than most other classes xD

Yeh I also want 25 seconds cooldown on some turrets. Especially Rocket Turret.
The nerf spirit rangers recieved would be a buff for turret users.
Somehow I find that funny :P
But I think such a buff to engineer turrets would be quite plausible. Because in my opinion turrets are inferior to spirits in every way… safe for cc maybe

cantuchky.8412:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Dont worry. Someone who is good will come up with a new ranger build then all you baddies can jump on the bandwagon. Hang tight.

^ haha, awesome comment.

^haha, awesom…oh wait, nevermind.
But honestly can someone explain why engineer’s standing point with, imo what are very effective turrets, endure so much less rage than ranger and their spirits? I do not play engineer so i’m asking this without sarcasm.

Because there is no effective turret build.
At least none that fits into any meta we ever had.