Guild Wars 2

daydream.2938:

Im curious chaith about what u mean you say guardians and thiefs have unique roles that are ‘above the meta’. IM not sure what you mean by above the meta?

The best I can think is that thiefs will always be roamers and guardians seem to nearly always be bunkers.

I was more joking than anything, haha. Thieves and Guardians just didn’t fit well into what I was saying.

Although, nothing in particular counters S/D or D/P thieves except S/D and D/P thieves. Nothing can stop a support Guardian from being an optimal or at least very good choice, either. All the other professions seem to have hard counters that makes it tough when people are currently stacking counterclasses.

butch.8136:

Once you have this kind of possibilites/balance, the game will become far more fun. As it would allow individual build skill. This is always the case in any game but it’s just way to subtle in GW2. I.e. Teldo managed to play at the skill ceiling of his engi build and you would see the reward. If we could have every build/class/etc. like that, the game would become much more fun. But that should be just the beginning, as I think you could make skill even more prevalent.

As I said before, it might sound silly, but being able to ‘carry’ in a game is a big part of the fun. This is already limited by GW2 conquest but that should be the only limit. Some maps reward killing more, which is a good thing.
If you have the feeling that there’s room for improvement, things become more fun.

Like I mentioned before, Engineer is one of the most rewarding professions! Every Engineer is typically significantly different, with an exception of certain builds that gain popularity.

NevirSayDie.6235:

One other serious question: how do you deal with magnet’s performance issues on inclined terrain? I have a terrible time getting people all the way to me at, say, the side points of Niflhel.

FYI I am already playing rifle control build atm so I agree with you that adaption and trying new things is good. I’m not trying to disagree with you: what you’re suggesting is good. But it’s also much easier for people to just play “whatever’s good right now,” so I’m trying to work out some of the details.

It seems to work on on inclines. Illusionary leap has an abnormally bad time dealing with inclines.

Magnet works on inclines pretty fine, but I’d say there is just a blanket 30% chance for Magnet to do one of the ‘buggy’ effects that it’s pretty famous for:

• Magnet pulls your enemy halfway.
• Magnet interrupts your enemy during an animation and nothing else happens.
• The target of your magnet moves 3 times instead of 1. (THE MOST COMMON, AND INFURIATING). I’ll edit in a link to a video of this later.
• Magnet does nothing, and your enemy appears where he was supposed to be 1-2 seconds later, already leaving.
• Magnet pulls an enemy off a ledge and then he ports back up.

etc… I’ve used it a lot. Rofl

Wombat.3510:

Each and every balance patch succeeds in only one thing; making balance worse and causing more people to leave.

I don’t consider that to be true at all. In my personal opinion, which is all I can speak for, every balance patch has been positive if you have an unselfish perspective. I consider the Necromancer God Patch (NGP) to be an exception to the rule.

What is causing people to be disappointed, and leave, if that is the reaction those people would like to take, is the fact that very little monetary resources are being allocated into new sPvP development.

You make it sound like the losses to the pvp community are totally attributed to bad decisions on the part of the Developers. That couldn’t be farther from the truth, in my view.

Ranko.2678:

All I can say is that my team is working things out, trying new things, and I still think at least most of us are having fun, and isn’t that what truly matters?

Same here! I’m always trying out new things and am usually having a blast.

It might just be that Engineer is the best designed profession (in different ways more than others), but having 10 top tier build combinations definitely makes my relationship with GW2 pvp a lot more refreshing.

NevirSayDie.6235:

But in solo queue, you’re talking about one 60-second CD burst setup that takes the place of, say, bomb kit, or your only stunbreaker, or your only condition removal outside of healing turret/drop antidote.

Just try it, bb. It is in fact a stunbreaker, and a good one at that – I can disengage most things with a Super Speed & Jump shot.

You’d be surprised how effective and easy a proper Magnet, Pry Bar, Overcharged Shot, Throw Wrench, Net Shot, Slick Shoes circle, Shrapnel Grenade, Chill Grenade, Poison Grenade, Jump Shot, Blunderbus combo can do. EZ, all day. There is a bit of learning curve attached, but once you master it, every minute you can simultaneously:

• Move someone up to 1650 distance from where they thought they were nice and safe.
• Make them unable to move, or use any skills for 6 seconds in that place of your choice.
• Destroy any rush-able profession, like an Engineer’s life bar, or a Necro’s life bar (pick one).

It’s really worth spending the time on, if you’re looking for a new challenge in GW2.

You can be effective in a soloq, regardless of what you feel you require of your team-mates. If your team needs to be reminded on Teamspeak to hop on the Necro/Engi you plopped at their feet, in the fetal position, then so be it.

Wombat.3510:

Please just leave the game alone and let us play!

That sounds like a gripe, but it can’t be… seeing as Arenanet takes the ‘let it be’ attitude and the cautiousness around changing classes to the extreme, save for one harsh balance patch. You are basically saying you freaking love Arenanet. That’s nice

Unfortunately, the only thing people have been citing as feedback lately when leaving PvP is that they hate the condition-dominated gameplay. Many people claim they will return with their team and continue to play, if the ‘condi-meta’ dies.

NevirSayDie.6235:

feel no shame in dropping a giant box on his head.

KrisHQ.4719:

Chaith.8256:

As for my opinion on professions that seem to not have a spot – I do feel there are some balance issues. The game is never going to be perfect – I feel that Mesmers and Elementalists need some slightly increased sustain against covered burn & bleed stacks.

No.
This is what killed sPvP in the first place. Constantly trying to “buff” weaker classes. That is what has caused this insane amount of general damage, spammable conditions and overflow of boons.

It’s only natural you’d associate the pain inflicted on the game from the Necromancer god patch with buffing classes in general. That was a pretty big deal.

There have been lots of awesome things that have been achieved by ‘buffing’ the little guy. I just leafed through the release notes from the last year, and I’d say not to be afraid, even if the game balance got burned once. I blame Powerr. Haha, jokes.

Vena.8436:

Chaith.8256:

It’s odd, I find S/D thieves to be a fairly uncommon sight in most high ranked tournaments. I’m agreeing though.

Common or not, really, doesn’t matter. The moment an elementalist or mesmer appears on the enemy team, it would be foolish not to roll in a S/D thief.

I’d prefer it more if the build were tuned to be in line with how warrior currently operates against necros and spirit rangers -> punishes their utility greed. The hammer warrior simply demolishes spirits and leaves a spirit ranger with nothing on the back four of his ability slots, especially now and he’ll be dead in 25s. Likewise a necro slotted with greedy, offensive utilities find themselves getting stunlocked. Stunlock warrior, though, quickly falls apart against more balanced builds and professions that can managed his skull cracks, for example. (Healing signet is a bit too oppressive though.)

S/D as it stands is just a bit too good, no matter the enemy build, against those two classes.

I edited my post right after you quoted, fyi. Basically saying that the only true counterplay for S/D thieves right now is to take the engagement to a dangerous teamfight. That’s about the only way to ruin an S/D thief’s day, which in my opinion is not quite enough.

Excalibur.9748:

warriors are everywhere in top 100 solo Q already. hardly uncommon.

This is a great thing.

Vena.8436:

People still play Spirit Rangers?

As for eles/mesmers, S/D thief is still too much of a dominating force unless something works its way into team dynamics to be able to remove it from pressuring team elementalists or mesmers, but that still won’t solve the problem of said classes get sniped by said thief.

It’s odd, I find S/D thieves to be a fairly uncommon sight in most high ranked tournaments. I think the counterplay to S/D thieves is a bit limited. You can only really hide in a teamfight to lose the thief. S/D Thieves really just thrive on out of position 1v1’s.

Spirit Rangers were not made to be unplayable at all. I still want one on my team, unless the population of sPvP Counter-comp Warriors gets too high.

As for my opinion on professions that seem to not have a spot – I do feel there are some balance issues. The game is never going to be perfect – I feel that Mesmers and Elementalists need some slightly increased sustain against covered burn & bleed stacks. It’s clear that to those that main the Elementalist and Mesmer, with very fixed options on their builds who also get hard countered by Rangers & Necros.

In my humble opinion, it’s really a big game of rock paper scissors.

Control Warrior & Engi > Condition Necro & Ranger > Power Elementalist & Mesmer

> Control > Condition > Power >

(Guardian & Thief just watch, because they’re always going to be useful for their unique roles which are mostly above the meta.)

My hope for the game is that variety happens for Mesmers and Elementalists in sPvP in the way of traits & roles, mostly. Where’s the viable condi & control builds? Attempts have been made, but it hasn’t proven rewarding enough.

Hey guys. I’ve been rather inactive in the community for the last several months. I’ve been playing and observing much like most of the silent majority of the GW2 PvP scene. I’m going to address the balance trends that we’ve been seeing in the last quarter and dig in to where it’s going.

I think it’s time to address the attitude that many players have when they’re talking about the experience they expect when queuing up with their team/friends.

The #1 Assumption

I’m going to get 10 conditions on me, and die instantly to 2 Necromancers and 2 Spirit Rangers. How is this fun? The “condi-meta” is unstoppable.

Answer #1

It’s time to adapt. The game has been patched in significant enough ways (don’t under-estimate the changes made on September 3rd.) Control comps are the next big thing. And when the control comps which are so great right now are finally being utilized to the max, then professions like Elementalists and Mesmers who laugh in the face of control abilities will have a friendly environment too. We need more good players who can drive the masses into trying new things. Look at the magical effect that it had on the ‘expected’ experience of spvp mere hours after Car Crash showcased a known build that can 1v1 the pants off of Spirit Rangers. Now you can expect to see a Warrior in your sPvP experience.

The #2 Assumption

I should take a break from sPvP because Anet just needs to equip the NerfHammer™ and beat the stuffing out of Necromancers and Rangers until nobody will dare take 2+ of each profession to a match.

Answer #2

That’s the worst idea ever! Players that will try whatever it takes to find competitive advantages are huge drivers of change, arguably even more than the pre-determined ‘balance states’ that players perceive their profession to be capable of. In my recent tPvP experience, in which I participate on an active team, I can feel the gameplay changing already. There’s way more coordinated CC, way more plays to counter the Spirit of Nature. I feel like I’m actually being rewarded by the game (winning matches) for coordinating CC plays with my team as opposed to puking conditions on the field.

So what can we change, so the “Condi-Meta” falls on it’s face, now that it’s on the run?

I challenge anyone that enjoys PvP to start practicing what works on the popular Necromancer and Ranger builds. I’ll explain in good detail what you should do, for the greater good. It’s really us that drives the ‘meta’.

Currently, Spirit Rangers and 30/20/0/0/20 Necromancers are encountering serious problems when dealing with control comps.

• It’s time to bust out the berserker stance control Warriors. Mace&Shield/Greatsword. Mace&Shield/Hammer. Longbow/Hammer. Do it. And become proficient at doing it well! Your sPvP goal could be one of many things: to melt a Spirit Ranger at his home point, or to Earthshaker/Staggering Blow/Backbreaker all of the Spirit of Nature’s revives in a teamfight, (Yes, that is a thing now.), Skullcrack is very strong. Rangers have no answer for it, Necromancers are really scared of it.

• It’s time to learn how to teamfight and actually combo with that Engineer profession you stayed away from since launch. Work your Grenade throwing arm, your magnet snipes, subsequent knockdown chains, and for the love of GW2, don’t get cleaved by a Necromancer or Ranger Spirit on point. Learn to be slippery and go to a grenade throwing position when pressured. Don’t go down. Ain’t nobody gonna revive yo’ a*s. I’m releasing a viable Power Engineer guide sometime in the future that functions in teamfights, and 1v1’s.

There is so much un-tapped potential in the Engineer and Warrior professions, especially. Things that this game needs more of:

Engineer:

Magnet pull. Everytime I successfully pull someone to the wrong side of town in a teamfight, that’s usually lights out for a Necromancer/Engineer. The opponent’s guardian is too far away for a timely save, and revive utilities are easily countered. Often, your team outright depends on a good Magnet pull to stop the target from getting revived.

Slick Shoes. After a magnet, you’ve perfectly set up a quick trip on the victim, and have time to create a ring – inflicting 3-4 knockdowns while your team collapses. Make sure you wall off the escape back to the enemy’s side first.

I really just want to encourage everybody that is still reading these forums to invest some time in bringing these uncommon juggle builds more towards the front page, and I promise that the gameplay will be much more engaging, tactical, and coordinated because of it.

So guys, sPvP community, think we can do this? The gameplay can be fun again. I feel we have the tools in our hands now with Spirit’s new tweaks. Necros and Rangers will keep their spots in the game, but let’s make sure that control regains it’s place in the trinity.

Discuss

Tyaen.5148:

zaragoz.6351:

He already has inertial converter, which I assume is why he went 5 more into tools as toolkit shield is better than 5 points in firearms..

That’s kind of what I figured after thinking about it for a minute and it makes sense.

My last comment would be the gear. At least in T1 WvW you’ll get crucified running Berserker gear. This may change after the patch on the 17th when good servers will be rewarded for running more small mans (30 mans should be that max I would think). Even then though I probably wouldn’t run Berserker.

It’s definitely life on the edge. Positioning is absolutely key. In larger fights, I depend on my group forming a rank. It’s for extreme outside fighting, with a huge snipe combo. (Magnet into group, slick shoes, unload.) I have to lose all would-be attackers, but it’s not proven to be very difficult. I find it very exciting.

I’ve never played t1 WvW, I’ve basically been in PvP from August 2012 to August 2013 – so, experiences may vary.

If you play equally well, you cannot beat a necro as a rabid condi-engi in WvW/PvP. There’s no answer to that question other than outplaying the necro. How severe you have to outplay a necro loaded with 100% deathshroud depends on your build.

My first order of advice would to play a build that necros don’t counter as hard. Things that counter carrion-necros that Engineers can do:

• Bring Slick Shoes. Bring a toolkit for magnet. When properly used, this is going to be the easiest way to prevent a necro from using his multiple iWin buttons available while you are running conditions on him. (Putrid mark, you’re dead, consume conditions, you’re probably never going to down him.)

How you do it:

• Poke some of your damage at max range into him while playing very defensively, trying to burn as much deathshroud as possible. When he pops death shroud, it’s not a bad idea to GTFO and outrange his abilities, so he’s forced to take his shroud down. (90% of necros will do this) Immediately return and burning the necro’s health down. He can’t interrupt you with doom, or mitigate any damage.

• When the necro reaches X% hp (depending on your spike, and your abilities available,) Magnet pull, activate slick shoes asap, get 3-4 knockdowns while unloading damage, then double tap him with supply crate/Rifle4 as soon as the knockdowns from Slick Shoes ends. This is to prevent the Putrid mark or consume conditions.

• Stunbreak doom with lightning ninja speed, or weave a dodge in if you have anticipatory reflexes like that. Your combo can not be interrupted.

This is a deadly combination that is much more effective as a power Engineer, because your control is better with another big guaranteed interrupt after, using Rifle4 and that’s the name of the game. Plus, you can spike more HP faster as soon as his shroud is off.

If you have a pure condition-mancer necro that you will do or be anything to beat, in WvW, using the above strategy with this build will give you your best shot:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlIqiY38SyF17IyoHdmoNaiKkffewWtFEC-jECBYfBhgAhsAI5pIaslRFRjVXDT7iIq2auIa1SBwkwI-w

My all purpose build for WvW:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0piY38SyF17IyIFdmoJSR+pffewWPIEC-jECBYfBhEBI5pIasFhBpyJslORTXDT5iIqWKAmEGB-w

Honestly, if you’re a good Engineer and you are getting destroyed by Necromancer’s constantly, there’s not a super secret to go from zero to hero, lol. Sorry if you’re not satisfied with my suggestions to change your setup. :P

Mbelch.9028:

This is about stats mostly. Why will it never happen? List reasons and logical thinking behind it.

Most people have agreed that advanced build making would be beneficial to SPvP.

It was a very conscious design decision to make sPvP limited in the different possible stat distributions. PvP balance has to be very finely tuned, there is an imposed limit to how ‘glassy’ and how ‘tanky’ you can be, so it’s in a reasonable position to balance without considering 50% more posibilities.. Full glass cannons in WvW and PvP are quite different. 100% crit damage vs, 50% crit dmg in extreme cases. Full support bunkers are very different in WvW and PvP as well.

Don’t get me wrong, everyone agrees that stat customization is a desirable feature for MMO players, but if it brings more extreme comps/builds to the table then I don’t know if I’m up for that.

The teamspeak conversations.. hahaha. Genuinely happy people.

Chaba.5410:

VitalSuit.1980:

It’s not terrible design. It’s to keep people from spamming multiple skills in and out of water. It was like when we could heal above land and then go underwater and use our medkit heal as well (which was fixed)

For example imagine of elementalists could use mist form underwater, then go above land and use mistform again. Why the hell would they allow that…

Bad analogy. Mist Form is a single skill, not two different skills. The double-heal issue could have been limited to the healing slot. It is a terrible design to link cooldowns by slot. Should I slot something for underwater that has a lower cooldown than Rocket Boots? I just tried that in-game… It works! Yay!

Well, here’s a better example then.

Go underwater as a Necro, use spectral armor, spectral walk and blood is power.

Go above water, switch back to your regular 3 utilities: Spectral Wall, Corrupt Boon, and Epidemic. With protection, swiftness, and might.

And linking the cooldown by slot isn’t that terrible of an idea. You use a 60 second cooldown ability underwater – then walk above water, and it’s the exact same thing as if you still had that 60 second cooldown ability equipped. You can’t switch utilities that are on cooldown in this game. If anything, it’s keeping congruent to the rules already implemented.

ronpierce.2760:

So I was thinking, I really don’t like how currently top tier players are kinda shafted by Hotjoin Heroes. So I thought of a pretty cool idea (imo) to try to reward higher end players, which is something a lot of people have been asking for. But with this idea, even that armor remains relatively exclusive and won’t flood the game like TPvP armor did once it became more mainstream.

Idea:
“Gold Rank Reward Chest”
“Silver Rank Reward Chest”
“Copper Rank Reward Chest”

So it would work like this: These chests would be automatically distributed weekly based on your current ranking.

Gold Rank Reward Chest – Rewarded to top 500 players. It would have 4-6 items ranging from Rank 50-80. This Chest could reward even rare items from those ranks.

Silver Rank Reward Chest – Rewarded to the top 501-1000 players. It would have 3-5 items from Ranks 50-70. This chest may but would RARELY have rarer items from those ranks.

Copper Rank Reward Chest – Rewarded to non 1000 top 10% (90%+) It would have 2-4 items from rank 50-70, and have mostly lower rarity items from them.

Then we’d have a chance at cool gear, we’d have to work for it, it would be relatively exclusive, since we’d each only get 1 box per week we wouldn’t have full sets of high end gear quickly. Of course this would have to wait for a better Leaderboard decay.

What do you guys think?

Sounds pimp.

But as of the last State of the Game, it’s implied that there won’t be any changes to the sPvP reward system until a massive overhaul.

Poplolita.2638:

Pre-patch it tranfered all the condis. *Now, if we count blind, it only transfer 2 conditions. *I’d rather have the old version that transfer all conditions but blind instead of the current putrid mark.

genius.jpg

If you tried to transfer with a blind condition on you before, it would ‘miss’ and transfer nothing. Blind is a more worthy condition now that can’t be lost by melee’ing the air – because putrid mark transfers blind instead of being.. blinded – it’s a huge buff. An un-blindable condition transfer is really strong, just in a different way than flipping unlimited conditions.

It’s a nerf and a buff, added at the same time to keep the ability somewhat balanced, but head in the proper direction of being more reliable, but less all-or-nothing devastating.

It’s logical and well thought out when you look at all the changes together.

Kravick.4906:

Why all the complaining about conditions all of a sudden. They haven’t changed. They do the same damage they’ve always done.

IKR. I think people seeing their bar loaded with that one more condition type has a profound effect on how fast they seem to think they’re dying from conditions.

I think the real reason for the increased complaining is the 50% increase to Death Shroud 3, and spectral wall being introduced – the cherry on top, shall we say.

Necro, Engi, Ranger vs. Guardian, Ele, Mesmer, Thief, Warrior

Phineas Poe.3018:

Chaith.8256:

Again, I’ll clarify, I’m coming from a WvW/PvP perspective, where Elixir U is not fine.

And yet you’re sitting here arguing with me about changing it.

Chaith.8256:

And having no stunbreak is not fine, Mr. PvE hero. So keep in mind that background when you read my posts, haha.

Well, I play every aspect of the game, Mr. PvP hero.

I know you and the other 10 other people that tourney PvP seriously think the game revolves around you, but shelve the elitism for once, “haha.”

Again, very uncalled for. I won’t reply again.

dricboylan.9812:

I should have mentioned I’m new to Guild Wars 2. I wasn’t trying to troll. Tips would be useful though. For example what traits should I max out first seeing as I’m not 80 yet, what’s a good endgame build. I’ve been doing WvW to level and I just usually fall behind.

Ah, ok.

Here’s what to do:

Go to this build calculator link:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQBUSnu5lvLqXRiRK6MnFVI/A

From the traits I have chosen here, you will have permanent swiftness via kit switching, rocket boots every 16 seconds, and super speed that can be used to increase your speed in combat, as well as increase the distance on rocket boots to 1450.

Tell me what kit you want to use, and what you want to do and then I can help you build the rest.

Phineas Poe.3018:

With option 1 (remove stunbreak), players will still take Elixir U as they did before—for its projectile wall—and players will also have access to another stunbreaker on a skill that actually makes sense for the class to operate like a stunbreaker.

Chaith.8256:

You’re saying if they remove the stunbreak from Elixir U, that will make players take Elixir U ‘as they did before’ and another Stunbreak in their build, LOL.

Phineas Poe.3018:

No, that is not what I’m saying.

Whelp, if you’re saying that a player has access to another stunbreaker, you might want to clarify that it’s not actually in his build, and he’s an Engineer running a yolo-nostunbreak-build. Again, I’ll clarify, I’m coming from a WvW/PvP perspective, where Elixir U is not fine. And having no stunbreak is not fine, Mr. PvE hero. So keep in mind that background when you read my posts, haha.

Phineas Poe.3018:

It doesn’t matter if people don’t take Elixir U after they remove its stunbreaker. Its Toss ability already provides a significant amount of utility in PvE.

So you’re cool with just outright nerfing Elixir U with no compensation because the PvE crew is tossing Elixir U to kill that Lupi guy. Very elegant. I’m sure you won’t have to adjust the other skill you’d decide to tack the stunbreak onto either. Balance is fun!

Chaith.8256:

Cause what happens to Elixir U when you start with 3 random effects and take away 2 of them is.. you get Frenzy. A word for word copied utility, under a different name. It’ll never happen from a flavour perspective.

Phineas Poe.3018:

I care little about how things appear from a “flavor” perspective.

Phineas Poe.3018:

I’m not calling for homogenization of all stunbreakers

Yeah.. you just would rather give Engineers Frenzy, word for word. And you can’t see anything wrong with that? It’s not cool or a good change just because you don’t want to homogenize every stunbreaker.

(Swap Stunbreakers) Ideally: back onto Elixir R

No. It was not okay with how massively popular Elixir R was as a stunbreak – almost no other stunbreaks were getting play after the nerfs to Elixir S. It’s still a widely used utility, which gets play in all game modes for support oriented builds. I personally prefer a 2nd kit, but it’s highly competitive.

Elixir R was just reduced to 30 seconds. Could you imagine if you just slapped a stunbreak back on it? It’d be like reversing a proper balance change and making it worse. And then Elixir U would be that much more under-represented. In no way would a change like this represent good game design or style.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Now are you ready to have a serious conversation or do you want to keep screwing around, “LOL?”

That’s kinda uncalled for.

10/10 Trolling.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Well, I use Frenzy on my Warrior all the time, and would prefer it be left alone. That’s not the topic of the conversation here, and I disagree that Elixir U should operate in ways similar to other Quickness skills, especially since Elixir U being a stunbreaker is a recent change (from March 26).

My issue stems from the fact that they felt elixirs had too many stunbreakers, so they removed the best one we had while leaving the one nobody uses. With option 1, players will still take Elixir U as they did before—for its projectile wall—and players will also have access to another stunbreaker on a skill that actually makes sense for the class to operate like a stunbreaker.

Elixir U was changed to be a stunbreak simply for the consistency of being similar to the other cross-profession quickness utilities, but I feel it changed little.

What utility that happens to make sense for an Elixir U build do you suppose will have a stunbreak magically added to it? (If the Stunbreak from Elixir U was swapped.)

You’re saying if they remove the stunbreak from Elixir U, that will make players take Elixir U ‘as they did before’ and another Stunbreak in their build, LOL. The problem from my perspective is that nobody is taking Elixir U right now and the stunbreak contradicts the usage of the utility, so another stunbreak is needed – making the stunbreak on Elixir U to be meaninglessly destroying the budget for the utility.

Maybe there’s a a misunderstanding because I don’t PvE, but Elixir U hardly gets any play in the rest of the game, from what I’ve seen. I think Elixir R would be the superior choice in every case where an Engineer build can’t benefit from another kit’s utility, or a turret, or gadget, and just had an ‘empty slot’ for a non-stunbreak utility, if that were to ever happen. (It will never happen to my builds.)

Phineas Poe.3018:

Quickening Zephyr was removed as one of the effects when Elixir U was made a stunbreaker, so it’s either 25% extra damage or the depleted Endurance. My idea for option 2 was quite simple: remove any chance for the reduced Endurance.

The only other class that has to deal with the Endurance penalty with their Quickness skill is also the best burst profession in the game that can near-perma Stealth so it’s not a problem.

You mentioned before you like the stunbreak on your warrior’s frenzy, that’s great. Cause what happens to Elixir U when you start with 3 random effects and take away 2 of them is.. you get Frenzy. A word for word copied utility, under a different name.

It will never happen from a flavour perspective, and still does nothing to address the problems it has in WvW / sPvP.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Because of its mechanic as a Quickness skill, drinking it removes Endurance and cuts its regeneration by 50%, meaning you may break your stun, but your mobility is just as poor. And with the change to Stabilized Armor, why would you want to drink Elixir U and take 25% extra damage when you take 20% less while stunned? Or even 53% with Protection Injection? It just never makes sense to use it, and I see almost no one with it equipped in WvW or sPvP. The only time I ever personally use it is in PvE, and that’s for its projectile wall in Toss Elixir U.

(WvW/sPvP)

You are rationalizing that the negative side effects are the reason that players aren’t using Elixir U. IE: Why destroy my endurance and be in just as bad a situation? Why take 25% more damage when I’d be doing better sitting in the stun with 20% less damage? ETC.

Phineas Poe.3018:

I understand that for Warriors, Frenzy is a stunbreaker. It’s a skill that works similarly. But it doesn’t crush your Endurance pool, so it’s still a pretty good choice. So I’d like to see one of two things happen.

Although I consider the Engineer Elixir U’s negative side effects to be the worst, because it takes another reaction to re-formulate your strategy on the fly, in reality, these negative side effects are just as crippling to the other classes. In every single way, just as bad. That’s why you see these skills on a massive WvW/sPvP decline.

But beside all of these details around the negative side effects, the real reason why these skills aren’t taken is that there’s no justifiable reward.

Look at the Engineer profession – what mechanics could possibly take advantage of a temporary quickness to actually make a difference in effectiveness? The correct answer is auto-attack spam. That’s really the only thing, profession wide, that synergizes with quickness properly – Unfortunately, Engineers have some of the most feeble auto-attacks in-game due to the class mechanics compensating Engineers in other ways.

Giving Engineers a quickness utility is about as appropriate as giving Mesmers a temporary buff to their healing stat of 1,000, or giving guardians a buff to their condition damage by 1,000. If there’s just no way for the profession to harness the ability, it’s quite pointless, despite being fairly balanced, cross-profession.

Engineers need for this ability to actually synergize with a burst combo – right now, a common stance is that the utility lies in reviving and stomping. Unfortunately, this perceived utility is completely meaningless at this stage in the WvW / sPvP meta – you can’t survive a stomp, especially with the negative side-effects, and quickness stomping still has a delay at the end of animation so that the time saved you end up peeing away. If you thought surviving a stomp was bad, wait till you try to survive a revive.

Phineas Poe.3018:

1. Remove the stunbreaker on Elixir U and move it to another skill.
2. Keep the stunbreaker on Elixir U, but remove the Endurance penalty.

Response to #1 – If the stunbreaker was swapped to something else, Elixir U would be so pillaged & spent, that it would resemble a veteran prostitute. Every other quickness utility is a stunbreak, cross-profession. You’re basically saying: ok ‘kitten it’, I’d rather the already better stunbreaks get better. But to be honest, I feel like none of these utilities, cross-profession, should be stunbreaks – just use the budget to make the darn ability better! You 100% need a 2nd stunbreak anyways!

Response to #2 – Just checking, you realize that all of the side-effects are mutually exclusive? You mean remove the endurance drain from the ‘pool’ of options so you either take 25% more damage or cannot be healed? Uhh. Another change that would affect a total of.. not a darn thing.

Elixir U needs a re-purpose. And coincidentally enough all of the other quickness abilities need a little nudge, so It’d be a perfect time to make a pass.

What do you guys think?

Eviator.9746:

In this video (please excuse the quality, my computer cannot record well in 1080p) I used slick shoes hoping to knock down the sentry. He never got knocked down!!! Because he didn’t get knocked down he gave me a single stack of vulnerability, then stunned me.

So, what about my understanding of the mechanics of Slick Shoes is wrong, causing my plan to fail?

http://youtu.be/qOngymxV1uY

And how do you paste videos directly?

Ughh. You did everything wrong. You clearly have no understanding of the intricacies of Slick Shoes.

Loljk, I don’t know. That’s messed up. I’ve got nothing. Nice vid.

Jumper.9482:

Gameplay highlight walkthrough from Jumper X S/D Thief POV.

Yo Jumpa, I’m really happy for you, I’ma let you finish, but Five Gauge cleared Chieftain and wins the 1v1 at henge in the fastest of ALL TIMES!

http://www.twitch.tv/chaithh/c/1905589

(Disclaimer: This is an old video, in a non-serious post.)

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

I got your back cruuk. He won’t decap us anymore

Hah! Like you had Cruuk’s back at Henge.

Ok, I’m done. * poofs *

MentalPause.9183:

@Chaith: I can see how tool kit would be awesome. That combo alone makes it worth while, not to mention the added survival from gear shield. Although there is something oddly satisfying about using rocket boots to leap around the battlefield. Is it necessary? No. Is it optimal? You’ve already pointed out why its not. Is it worth using? It has it moments, as you said quality of life and zerg avoidance. Use rocket boots while running around, switch to tool kit when you get to a fight.

Rocket boots if you’re worried you might encounter an outnumbered situation.

MentalPause.9183:

Chaith.8256:

Let me suggest to you a non-hgh rifle/nade build that’s optimized for WvW roaming & hotjoins.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlIqiY38y3F17IyoHdGnNhiKkffewWPIEC-ToAg0CnI0RljLHjOygsBNE5sA

(Take Medkit if you can afford to be more selfish, or if you’re not worriedabout conditions)

• This is an extremely offensive, and extremely mobile rifle/nade build. In fact, when the might is stacked, I dare say that it might be the most hard hitting Engineer build that exists.

• You might want to adapt it to be more well rounded (drop scope for protection injection would be the first thing to do).

• You can throw on any runes of choice, and get a fire sigil & trade ‘Enhanced Performance’ for ‘Explosive Powder’ – if might stacking isn’t fun for you (you wanted to stay away from the HgH playstyle).

I saw this build on your twitch and decided to give it a try. It’s deceptively good at chain cc, damage and all around goodness. It has a tendency to shut down an enemy and basically let your group curb stomp them (Rifle can almost do this on its own). It has a solid initiation tactic centered around slick shoes. AND as you said the damage, if combed correctly, can be pretty intense. The biggest problem is when you get focus fired, though it has some solid escapes. I haven’t dropped scope for protection injection, however I’ve been thinking about it. I highly recommend giving this a try if your looking for an HGH alternative that’s very fun to play. It may take a bit to get use to especially for HGH users, but in the long run I see it being very solid overall.

Switching in Toolkit for Rocket Boots, and traiting for Power Wrench instead of Scope will make your 1v1 and teamfight much stronger. Rocket boots is just for zerg avoidance, and quality of life.

Toolkit basically allows you to set up your control combo from 1200 range. You can magnet into slick shoes, or into another combo quite easily. Try this combo:

1.) Magnet pull,
2.) Into prybar,
3.) Into overcharge shot,
4.) Into throw wrench,
5.) Into net shot,
6.) Into slick shoes,
7.) Into grenade unload.. Quite the death combo.

Support builds are definitely made to be built tanky, sure. Engineer is probably the best class to run support on, currently, since the healing turret improvement.

Here’s a template for making a support build. Conditions variant:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqOlIqqbnwi6dkYUhOH6h9NchF9I/63yA-jEyAIuASNApPA59gkBjWeMslxioxqnJiqBA-w

Use any random combination of Shaman/Settler/Apothecary gear, if you want to use the conditions version. Shoot for ratios of like, 2k+ toughness, 18k+ health pool, 1.2k+ healing.

Here’s a basic template on how to build a Rifle based support build, which I like better:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlIqqbnwSyF17IxIFdW0hUY/CL6R+1vlB-jkxAocA6DQWsIaslxioxqmJiqV2YA-w

Same 2k+ toughness, 18k+ health, 1.2k+ healing deal.

Vestid.7619:

Hi

I wanted to try something that was less focused on Elixirs post patch. I also like to use my weapon and kit equally. In this case grenades for AoE, rifle for single target.

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=VW;4Z;0h0C67Qkv2;9;4T99J-46A4;05;009;9;9kr0D

Hope you like it.

Hey there. There are definitely a few things that should be cleaned up if you’re looking for the best non-HgH rifle nade builds. Currently, the traits and utilities you have selected have next to no synergy.

• Invigorating speed for vigor every 5 seconds, but no Infused Precision or Speedy kits to proc it.

• Taking Elixir H and Elixir B, but not getting reduced cooldowns on them. It’s good you have Cleaning Formula 409, but going half-in to elixirs is simply a weaker option than using the super powerful healing turret.

• Utility Goggles. There’s no good reason to take this utility over Elixir S, or Slick Shoes.

Let me suggest to you a non-hgh rifle/nade build that’s optimized for WvW roaming & hotjoins.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUlIqiY38y3F17IyoHdGnNhiKkffewWPIEC-ToAg0CnI0RljLHjOygsBNE5sA

(Take Medkit if you can afford to be more selfish, or if you’re not worriedabout conditions)

• This is an extremely offensive, and extremely mobile rifle/nade build. In fact, when the might is stacked, I dare say that it might be the most hard hitting Engineer build that exists.

• You might want to adapt it to be more well rounded (drop scope for protection injection would be the first thing to do).

• You can throw on any runes of choice, and get a fire sigil & trade ‘Enhanced Performance’ for ‘Explosive Powder’ – if might stacking isn’t fun for you (you wanted to stay away from the HgH playstyle).

Vyndetta.9415:

I hear taking away 1 stunbreak destroys your class. if stun break is that strong why not run 3 on ur utility bar hue hue

Regen, it’s in a precariously perched position.

Your proposed changes would make, say, an Engineer’s Regeneration with 18.5k hp with 1k healing power about 22%.

Your proposed changes would increase a Banner Warrior (Knights Amulet) with zero healing power, but 30,602 health’s regeneration by 235.40%

Yikes. I mean, I’d be largely okay with regen actually doing something. I think maybe .75% of HP + (Healing power*.15).

Forestnator.6298:

Soon.5240:

I see Sigil of Earth as redundant, because Sharpshooter trait (5 pts in Firearms) gives you a 30% chance to cause bleed for 3 seconds on criticals. Obviously you would need to have this trait selected, which I always do with my P/P build.

How does Sigil of earth effect Sharpshooter in any way? How does Sharpshooter effect Sigil of earth in any way?

Sigil of battle on the other hand increases your condition damage and withit sharpshooter trait. So what is the logic behind saying sigil of earth and ssharpshooter are stronger together then sigil of battle if simple maths can prove the opposite? :-o

The man’s correct. Sigil of Earth does not make Sharpshooter redundant, or vice versa.

[tPvP Below]But I’m not on the same page about Sigil of Battle being the best in every scenario.

Sigil of Battle obviously scales on boon duration. The more might duration, the more attractive Sigil of Battle becomes. The more ways to apply conditions, the more attractive Sigil of Battle becomes.

At low +Boon Duration stat, or low condition application methods, I truly feel that Sigil of Doom, Geomancy, and Earth pull ahead. Sustained damage is a huge consideration, but rarely do people account for the fact that quickly re-applying conditions totally ruins people. Doom, Geomancy, and Earth are stacking conditions where you may have had none before – and forcing condition removal that’s often invaluable.

Manuhell.2759:

Versus multiple opponents there is the same problem. Sure, you can stun them, but any action will cancel the shield anyway, and it lasts only for 2 seconds in any case.

Blocking all melee and ranged hits for 2 seconds, from multiple sources, is easily better than expending your entire block to stun the ranger pet, or mesmer clone. This is the worst case scenario, obviously. I’m just making a point that there will me many times where the current Shield 5 is superior.

It seems to be a 1v1 toning down and a 1vX improvement.

valiel.5041:

But we had another utility slot for that.

Btw, is it bug or feature that Super Speed buff from Tool Kit with Tools IV trait doesn’t brakes stun?

Kit Refinement breaking stuns on a 20s cooldown, giving potentially 3 stunbreaks per minute would’ve been a bit lopsided. Taking a multi-proc trait to repeatedly cash in on one superior effect seems unintended.

I mean, do you think we’re phantasm mesmers? With 4.75 stunbreaks per minute, and 10 pseudo-stunbreaks per minute on sword & staff? LOL.

valiel.5041:

Chaith.8256:

So what are tPvP Engineers supposed to do in the meantime with the offensive builds that used to use Elixir R? Slick Shoes. Slick Shoes is a highly devastating, offensive stunbreak, that synergizes amazingly with Grenades.

And almost no conditions control.

Elixir R when commonly used as a revive utility previously had almost no conditions control, either. Heh. A 120 second cooldown that you need to save for when you, or allies, are sub-25% hp is no condition removal crutch.

In the meantime, there are a bunch of powerful builds that were just created.

• You haven’t lived yet if you have not done hotjoins or WvW with rocket boots & slick shoes. The Super Speed and Rocket Boots combo allows you to stay ahead of any zerg, flawlessly. Combined with a glassy rifle build and grenades, and you have a seriously mobile, highly opportunistic, bursty skirmisher.

• 0/0/20/30/30 Support builds and variants with Elixir Gun, Elixir R, and _ are still very strong.

• Rifle Static Discharge builds are at an all-time high as well. Rifle Turret, Elixir S, Toolkit Static Discharge builds are getting some play in high level tPvP, try it out.

Engineer is largely untouched in tPvP, seeing as your hand was never forced to include Elixir R, or a shield offhand.

Here are the top 2 details, bullet form, on how the old Engineer tPvP Meta has been affected, and what to do about it.

• #1 – Shield 5 – going from a 3s channelled ranged block, with a 2 second (one time) melee stun, to a 2s channelled full block, with a 1 second (unlimited) melee stun.

^Projectile avoidance is basically down by a second, but defense against multiple melee attackers, or mixed attackers (ranged, melee) has been way upped. Previously, if you tried to shield against a ranged opponent AND a melee opponent (ie, Ranger with pet), the shield would instantly stun the melee opponent and stop blocking the projectiles. Therefore, in many situations, the blocking duration has been increased, due to the shield always blocking for a full 2 seconds.

It’s possible to perceive this as a nerf, but it shouldn’t be possible to perceive this as a reason to get your jimmies rustled. There are perks and drawbacks to both versions.

Pistol offhand has always been godly, and blowtorch now has a reduced aftercast. If you perceive shield to be too much of a liability, nearly every exact same build is just as good, if not better, with the pistol – after you’ve adjusted to not go overboard on burning.

• #2 – Elixir R – Going from an instant kitten energy refilling, stunbreak, to a 30s .5s cast energy refilling, non-stunbreak.

^OK. So this ability has lost it’s spot in pretty much every non-support or non-utility build. It’s required to take another stunbreak to be used together with Elixir R. It now is almost always combo’d with Elixir Gun, which now functions as the stunbreak. True support builds that utilize Elixir Gun aren’t penalized at all. This, in fact, has buffed support builds that run Elixir Gun and Elixir R together.

You can surely combo Elixir R with Elixir S, or Slick Shoes. You will likely have to give up a kit to do so, so it’s a less attractive choice – but if the revive utility is needed, a sacrifice for utility can be made. (I personally wouldn’t go for this.)

The long and short of it, is that Elixir R is only optimal in Elixir Gun support builds – so it’s a big nerf to the availability.

So what are tPvP Engineers supposed to do in the meantime with the offensive builds that used to use Elixir R? Slick Shoes. Slick Shoes is a highly devastating, offensive stunbreak, that synergizes amazingly with Grenades. When used to ‘ring’ enemies properly, slick shoes guarantees you enough time to empty a full clip of point blank grenades, and a blowtorch. The stunbreak is highly useful. Everyone needs to learn how to maximize this ability.

official.4658:

also I remember that video Zone u did beat us but to be fair it was a 2v2 either way props on warrior skillz i love ur build

Ostricheggs.3742:

30 5 0 20 15 with 3 5 11 explosives, 1 9 alchemy, 6 tools, 6 undead runes, rabid ammy, battle/corruption sigil, heal turret, bomb/nade kit, elixir R, pistol/shield

Best build for engis ATM.

Try ze earth/doom sigils, ya?

ronpierce.2760:

Let’s compile all the things that seem to be missing from the “Leaks”, that seemed like it should have been addressed either rightfully or by dev hint. Try to stick with professions you are knowledgable. This isn’t a “So and so shouldn’t have gotten x” thread. I’ll start off and it’ll give an idea.
Leak Page: http://pastebin.com/2rrFg9ps

Necro:
No mention of Moa not killing all minions.
No Pet AOE survivability.
Shadow Fiend haunt, no mention of a faster activation.
No mentions of Healing in DS/ stomping+rezing
No mention for Leeching/Vamp buffs hinted.
No mention on Greater Marks being baked in or merged with Staff Mastery.
No mention on lowering Life Transfer CD.
No mention on Corrupt Boon poisoning self on miss/no target (Inconsistent with blood is power)
No mention of Jagged Horror and Horde minor traits.

(I only feel I should comment heavily on Necromancer, esp MM, as its my specialty) but fill in all the no-show expectation (not just farfetched wishes) notes that you were expecting but didn’t show (yet). I just want to get a general over view of what we’re looking at from everyones’ angel in one place.

With the exception of Moa, I don’t think hardly any of these things are on people’s radar’. Some are just subjective buffs you think Necros should get. :P

Zodian.6597:

It’s been nearly a year since release and most people (who are active in pvp) are just now hitting rank 40-50 (out of 80). Was the grind for rank in sPvP really intended to be this harsh? I mean at this rate we wont hit 80 for another year or so.. Meanwhile everyone in PvE has been using the coolest skins since like 2-3 weeks after launch. It shouldn’t take this long to do something as basic as customize your character -at least imo.

What do you guys think?
I feel like this has been sort of the elephant in the room for awhile in PvP. Or at least one of them.

I’ve just got the first tier of Cultural gear (Rank60) a couple weeks ago. It truly does feel like It’s impossible to get all the skins.

I’ve been playing GW2 sPvP almost exclusively since launch, and playing quite regularly. My lifetime sPvP points are 1,833,490 with 7,530 games played, averaging at 243 glory per game. That’s like killing 366,698 players or decapping 183,349 points.

It’s been quite the journey, but then I look at the numbers and realize that I am 20.44% of the way to unlocking the third cultural armor tier, after I’ve gotten the first and am halfway to R61.

So my options are: Grind for 4 more years, and wear those Phoenix and Dragon rank skins like a boss, or .. jesus christ man why would I do that to myself? That 2.66 year gap between Phoenix and Dragon where you don’t see any character progression is just a little too harsh, haha.

Maybe they could be at least unique skins that you can’t grind in a few weeks of PvE?

Maybe they could copy and paste some legendary skins people are running around with in PvE?

I don’t think the rewards are appropriate for the investment, not even remotely close, to be honest. It is a bit of an elephant in the room.

Victoitor.2917:

If the healing turret is destroyed, then whatever timer there was left on the Cleansing Burst overcharge is lost. The main problem is that if you deploy your turret and then overcharge and the turret is destroyed when the overcharge has 0,1 second left, then you have to wait 20 more seconds to use it again. This is the longest cooldown for a healing skill in the game (35 seconds).

This has to change and I see two solutions for it.

Solution 1: Make the healing turret indestructible.

Solution 2 (better solution): Make the cooldown for the healing turret start from moment you use it and have it restart it everytime the overcharge is used. So if you used your overcharge 13 seconds ago (2 seconds left to use again) and the turret is destroyed, then you´ll have to wait 7 seconds for your next heal instead of 20 seconds.

It´s unusable as a turret in this current state.

Correct. It’s designed to incentivize being either picked up or detonated .5 seconds after deployment.

Whether if it’s now ‘working as intended’ by developers, I don’t know if I think it is. I feel like it was intended to be a viable option if left deployed.

Only time will tell.

JohnDied.3476:

Chaith.8256:

Elixir based, might stacking Engineers reigned supreme since January-ish. Link below:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/List-of-my-TPvP-engi-builds/first

If he played six+ months ago then he’d recognize elixir builds, they’ve reigned supreme since launch. What changed in january was the HgH buff, and people finally learning to use runes to maximize their engineer builds (ie might stacking/boon stacking).

On Dec26th patch, HgH was buffed and we received sigil of battle. Might stacking runes before this date were not worth it, it’s not a matter of ‘finally learning’. They were crap before you had sigil of battle.

Gorni.1764:

Dear Anet,
I can totally accept most of the changes in the last patch, for example the nerf of the healing signet. They make sense in a way, but what I still can’t understand is the change of RTL. A 40s CD on a skill that is used for movement only makes this spell not only weak but nearly useless. Even travelling with fire attunement and using dagger-3 only might be faster now, making RTL redundant.
The mentioned “problem” of “roaming tanks” in tPvP is not really a reason to make such a change. Even before the nerf an Ele could use RTL only once to travel between the points, so why nerf the CD?
The same goes for WvW. An Ele can still use RTL to easily escape combat and run away, but the overall travel-speed has been extremely nerfed – what reason for? Other classes can travel at that speed too or even faster.
I don’t even want to mention PvE where I least understand these changes.

By continously nerfing RTL you’re making this weapon-set less fun with each patch. I still can remember the days when RTL could be used to bypass canyons for example … it was unique to Eles and very much fun. You’re just taking away these mechanics and the fun we can have with them for no reason.

So Anet, what’s the exact reason for the RTL-Nerf? And even if you stick to those changes could you at least fix the problem with stealthing/dodging/blocking/outranging enemies? Regardless of having a target when casting the spell (in sPvP) it will have a 40s CD 80% of the time.

Whelp, for being ‘useless’, it sure helping your mobility a lot still, innit? Elementalist is still in the top tier of mobility rating among all the professions.

The reason for the change was primarily PvP/WvW. Too much abuse to.. well, never die, ever. You get the good cooldown rate when you use it as a gap closer – you get punished when you use it to zap to a node or cheat death.

It was totally warranted, whether or not it makes you sad that your favourite weapon was nerfed.