Guild Wars 2

Wow..

Where to start.

Engineer’s are able to use on-swap sigils now with kits, and all sigils carry their effects over. This created huge new possibilities for Engineers.

Elixir based, might stacking Engineers reigned supreme since January-ish. Link below:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/List-of-my-TPvP-engi-builds/first

The 100nade build was birthed, and then died. It was pretty amazeballs, and still fills me with warm fuzzies. Link below – it’s an artifact in the GW2 history now though.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Five-Gauge-s-100nade-Guide/first

Now, healing turret has been buffed to provide adequate condition removal, and has given rise to many variations of double kit condi-nade builds.

That sums up the important things. Engineers are in the upper tier when it comes to tPvP godliness, not due to massive buffs, but just because players are learning to maximizing grenades now (lawl).

redslion.9675:

Do you know if we can double proc the combo on the healing turret as follows?

Use toolbelt -> 1 water field
Deploy turret
Overcharge turret -> 2 water fields
Detonate turret -> double healing proc.

Does this work, or combo fields overwrite each other? Or the first field doesn’t last long enough?

No, you can’t overlap two or more fields and then blast all of them with one finisher. There’s a priority system, only one of them receives the finisher.

Soon.5240:

How do you instantaneously trigger the burst on the Healing Turret?

Double tap the heal keybind and press your Detonate keybind .25 seconds later. There’s no global cooldown, so you can do it instantaneously.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Lupanic.6502:

Teldo is playing at top level with the FT.

I’ve seen it. It’s horrible. It’s three horrible utility skills with random traits.

I’m sure I’m not alone here in saying: … Wat?

I am extremely ashamed of this thread, guys. And I think all of you guys should wake up and smell the napalm. Here are the real facts:

• I can actually run Kit Based condi builds now, since healing turret can remove up to 8 conditions per minute, in chunks of 2 every 15s. This is a time to celebrate. Turret & gadget builds are indirectly less terrible now, too, from this huge healing turret buff.

• Bunker/support builds are amazing now, too. The healing turret, in addition to the base 2520 self healing, is like a 2520-3820 AoE base heal & condition clear for allies every 15-20 seconds, respectively. Clerics/shaman amulet healing is monstrous.

• Incendiary powder change, I dig. I am ok with loading someone up with 6 seconds of burning on my very first opener, since it’s 100% proc chance.

Engineer is one of the Strongest classes with more options than HGH.

AsmallChicken.9634:

Chaith.8256:

AsmallChicken.9634:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Chaith.8256:

Adrenal implant, stacks with vigor.

Natural vigor, no stacky with vigor.

Whoah, are you sure? Because I was pretty sure it didn’t. Now I want to go test it.

It does not stack.

From my testing a couple months ago, there was at least a marginal increase in endurance regen.

Just tested

W/o Adrenal Mods but with vigor : 5 sec to regen from one dodge
W Adrenal Mods and vigor: 5 sec regen
W/o Adrenal Mods and no vigor: 10 sec
W Adrenal Mods and no vigor: 7.5 sec

Bummer. Another one for the ‘useless under every circumstance’ pile.

AsmallChicken.9634:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Chaith.8256:

Adrenal implant, stacks with vigor.

Natural vigor, no stacky with vigor.

Whoah, are you sure? Because I was pretty sure it didn’t. Now I want to go test it.

It does not stack.

From my testing a couple months ago, there was at least a marginal increase in endurance regen.

Adrenal implant, stacks with vigor.

Natural vigor, no stacky with vigor.

bhagwad.4281:

They got the better of me, I deserve to die, better luck to me next time.

Are you kidding? Haha.

“Oh! I lost because his skills are significantly better than mine!”

Said no gamer ever.

They don’t do as much sustained damage and they have almost no staying power and limited mobility.

This kind of feedback can only mean one thing. You’re one of those Thief players in hotjoin that are always on the tunnel vision target’s heels spamming 1111111111 in the air, and get flanked by everyone.

It’s a playstyle issue. Once you discover the magic of Shortbows, you’ll never have a complaint about sustained damage, staying power, or mobility again, I promise.

Sustaining pressure on people:

• Between Trick Shot, Choking Gas, and an occasional Cluster Bomb, your sustained pressure on a point is really high, and extremely easy to do. Auto-attack is easily 50% of your pressure, depending on how much initiative you want to put into cluster bombs. Shortbow is still effective in 1v1’s to dish fair damage while not risking yourself, until the opportunity for a dagger combo arises. Thief Shortbow is one of the best weapons, period. Maximize it!

• Problems with staying power is all in the positioning, & disabiling shot & Shadowstep usage. Convert initiative into evades & cripples when the situation demands, while you lay low for a second or reposition.

• Bad mobility. You can slot signet of shadows, which I personally don’t recommend, or you can press Shortbow 5 more often. I’ll remind you that when you’re escaping, a vertical teleport can put you 5-15 seconds ahead of your pursuers, depending on terrain. You can’t even put a price on this in Temple of the Silent Storm or Khylo maps.

Hope this helps you overcome your problems with sustained pressure, staying power, & mobility.

Nope, he’s still around. Page3.

jsu.4370:

D/D Ele focusing on CC & Dodging.

Example here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSyiTT41LLU&hd=1 =)

You had such an erection from this fight, it’s hilarious, haha. “JSU vs. OstrichEggs” Like a pre-arranged duel or something, savor the moment.

Just goes to show, if you walk into a situation where your enemy has an elite, and you don’t, you will lose.

If you get hit by things, you can’t sustain yourself. You will freakin’ die.

If you miss both chill grenades & a blowtorch, you will freakin’ die.

Clearly a faceroll, heh. More people should see this video.

Raptured.9307:

The difference is that the engie bunkers not by avoiding dmg, but being tanky while destroying whoever comes to his base including bunkers. That effectively rules out the point of point bunker guards, who can last for a bit but can’t kill and melts under an engie.

LOL.

Gotta love those 30/30/30/30/30 Engineers who can sit on point and melt full bunker guardians.

Condition Engineers can’t stay on point in a few 1v1 match-ups, let alone in any 2+ enemy skirmish. Ranger holds a point much better.

Condition Engineers will beat a bunker guardian 1v1 almost always, but the time to kill is usually around 40 seconds. Same boat as Necro & Ranger.

True bunker Engies (Toolkit, Elixir Gun) can’t melt anything. . .

Lordrosicky.5813:

The engi supply drop elite needs nerfing. Easily the best elite in the game.

It is probably the best elite for on-point 1v1’s, yeah. Largely un-noticed in teamfights though, due to the turrets needing to be placed where you want the stun, then getting annihilated.

Raptured.9307:

What you have now is the ultimate tpvp bunker instead of just an anti- bunker because the build is not glass at all and doesn’t fall to one glass easily. It’s all over as soon as they drop their supply crate on the node.
It essentially makes guards obsolete and that is bad.

You heard it here first, folks. Condi Engineer, ultimate tPvP bunker.

Sixe.5704:

This is a screenshot of a 1v1 or should I say 0v1 as I never saw the thief coming. Now I’m a necro with a bit over 2k toughness and 29,600 hp. Never got a chance to hit back, and all this in a matter of about 2-3 seconds. How is this fair is pvp? Should so much burst damage be allowed right after stealth? Not to even mention when they blink out before they spike you.

What a pile of misinformation.

Okay, first off. Let’s say you take:

• Soldier’s Amulet & Jewel
• 30 pts in Death Magic & 30 pts in Blood Magic
• Freaking 5 Dolyak 1 Earth runes

You are at 2,050 toughness, and 28,312 Health from that. How are you claiming to have 29,600 health and over 2k toughness? That’s not even achievable if you sacrifice every possible thing in sPvP.

I am 100% certain that you have around 1200 toughness or less, actually, from those numbers. The guy has 0 might stacks, and had 0 bloodlust when he opened – everyone knows how much damage Glasscannon thieves do. You probably run Carrion, and maybe mistakenly thought your armour value was your toughness value.

You soaked 38,720 damage from that thief, 11,056 was from his burst combo, that’s 28.55% of the damage you took. 71.45% of the damage you took was like.. dodge-able, & counter-able. Heck, if you even turned around and looked intimidating you probably could have forced him to dodge off you.

Like many people in this thread have said already, it took the thief at least 5.75 seconds to do this to you, because the second Flame Blast hit you before he Heartseekers you for the last time and then autos. Even though you’ve insisted it was was 3 seconds max many times, the likelihood of the Thief circumventing internal sigil cooldowns, or using cheats is a lot lower than the chances of you being.. wrong.

Sorry man! You’re going to have to look for improvement within yourself before giving feedback on the forums.

AlBundy.7851:

Are you really rocking dolyak signet in that spvp match wtf?

AlBundy.7851:

you do know it only gives you like 90 toughness and has a cast time and isn’t a stunbreak?

AlBundy.7851:

You must know that balanced stance is superior to it in every way possible right?

AlBundy.7851:

I appreciate you posting screenshots but maybe you should go to photoshop and insert the balanced stance icon over dolyak signet.

AlBundy.7851:

I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone own themselves so hard on the guildwars 2 forums with a screenshot before? KUDOS BRO!!!

AlBundy.7851:

your response was a total let down

AlBundy.7851:

even the edit was a let down

Seven posts later and you’ve really said nothing of importance. Impressive.

zone.1073:

SwickHobo.5096:

so bring a necro. At least HgH engies have a hard counter other then zerging them with 3+ people

I can see you don’t have very much experience in tournament pvp.

Necros do not counter HGH engineers.

Actually Zone, a properly played Carrion, Condition Necro is the hardest fight for an HGH Condi-Nade Engi. Condi nade HGH Engies do not win an equal skill 1v1 duel vs. a conditionmancer.

You’d need to seriously outplay them to win, IE, predict and dodge at least putrid mark, sometimes both Staff4 & Dagger4. If the Necro uses his flips badly, or misses, and the Engineer blows supply crate, thats when the Engineer wins. A necro’s common plague form is completely useless in a 1v1.

Here are the main determinants:

• Condition Flips: If a necro flips a blowtorch and 1-2 shrapnel tosses, all he needs to do is corrupt boon and its an auto-lose. You can start channeling your condition removal, but in my experience, removing 1 condition at a time in panic mode rarely saves you, unless you RNG remove the burning and bleeding first. As soon as this happens, I’m forced to run while removing conditions, and typically reset combat with little health.

• Damage avoidance: Engineers get to nullify one rotation of conditions around every 25s by casting elixirs for about 3 seconds. In that duel, a Necromancer can Consume Conditions on the Engineer’s first rotation, and Putrid Mark the next rotation, and Death Shroud soak or Deathly swarm any residual.

• Health Differences: Carrion > Rabid in a condition fight. The Necro should be sitting at around 24k, and the Engineer at 18k.

• Control: During the fight, the Engineer is going to have a decent amount of fear dropped on him. Elixir S is the only counter, but multiple fears.

I’ve gotten like, 15k putrid marks to the face after really putting the hurt on a Necro who I thought had nothing left. There’s no telegraph or projectile for Putrid mark, so, hope you get lucky.

Alchemy Engineers do die to overwhelming conditions. Engineer condition removal handles a full bar of conditions poorly, you can’t just Cleansing Flame 4 conditions off, or Contemplation of Purity, or Consume Conditions. HGH Engineers have smaller, but persistent condition removal.

Necros on the other hand, handle full bars of conditions quite well, with Consume Conditions & flips. That’s the main reason why the Engi will go down before the Necro in a condition damage slug-fest.

I think a better direction this thread should take is ‘buff warrior melee uptime & sustain’. Haha.

Currently, this thread is about taking people’s words out of context.

Chaith.8256:

semi-viable full time melee options

Response:

Warrior viable melee builds? i take it you dont pvp much?

lol

Kupinoodle.7194:

The problem is the numbers, not the class concept.

Response:

XII.9401:

The concept of having broken classes such as thief is ‘Awesome!’?

The concept of having OP classes is ‘Awesome’?

Wish I could filter out certain players’ posts.

lol

Apolo.5942:

Chaith.8256:

This is a Guild Wars 2 Elementalist, not a Dungeons & Dragons Wizard.

Given the massive failure of this games pvp, specially considering its a sequel to GW1, i would not be too proud of that. Doing something different, makes it different, not good.

You’re entitled to your opinion of why GW2 PvP is ‘a failure’. Seeing as WvW and PvE are phenomenal, it’s probably more to do with PvP content than class design. GW2 Class design & playstyle at it’s core is the best thing about this game, although traits need work. You wouldn’t know what’s good about this game even if it came up and sucker punched you.

Apolo.5942:

Chaith.8256:

I think the real problem is Elementalist & Warrior are the only professions that have viable and semi-viable full time melee options, respectively.

Warrior viable melee builds? i take it you dont pvp much?

Me? PvP? Nah, never figured out how to find the ‘enter the mists’ button.

You think I’m wrong in saying there are Warrior builds that are semi-viable? Wow, I am kind of stunned. Every warrior must be so bad, haha. Wait till you run into a good one. Look man… viable is not that hard, it’s optimal that warriors will never be, at the moment.

Apolo.5942:

Chaith.8256:

silentnight warrior.2714:

The best duelist professions in the game are not melee. That says a lot.

D/D elementalist

Elementalist is not a melee class, try again.

Well, we share similar opinions in that the game has a heavy range focused meta, but you are not correct. D/D Elementalist is pretty much the only viable pure melee build that is used in tPvP that doesn’t rely on ranged options.

Only effective at 150-300 range, and relies on gap closers, while being one of the great(est) dueling builds. You seem to be wrongly thinking that melee or ranged ONLY professions actually exist in GW2. There are only builds. And the D/D Ele build is a proficient melee dueling build. You’ve really got nothing to stand on, lol.

Apolo.5942:

Because he is a caster and he should not be able to stand toe to toe with a warrior.

Edit: This is a Guild Wars 2 Elementalist, not a Dungeons & Dragons Wizard.

Bickering aside, there are only really 2 ‘full time’ melee builds used in sPvP and tPvP NA meta. It’s the D/D Elementalist, and occasional warrior without Longbow/Rifle. Every other common build that you expect to see depends on a ranged playstyle option.

Unconventional full-time melee builds totally exist, and I acknowledge that, but.. Thieves without shortbows, Necros without staff, damage Guardians without scepters, Rangers without shortbows are mostly considered YOLO TROLLIN’ builds by the community.

I think the real problem is Elementalist & Warrior are the only professions that have viable and semi-viable full time melee options, respectively.

silentnight warrior.2714:

The best duelist professions in the game are not melee. That says a lot.

D/D elementalist

Engineer is the only profession without Signets – it’s kind of a flavor thing. Speedy kits is a unique Engineer playstyle, and I like it. Our utility slots are too important as is to dedicate one to movement speed. Personally, I’m good with not having to take a utility, haha.

Bringing a teamfight to far point would be nearly impossible. Every competent enemy you encounter would drop elites & revive utilities, and then graveyard rush the point, dropping elites & revive utilities again.

Highly exploitable. So, no.

google.3709:

I don’t know about you guys, but i would much rather if Med kit got ignored.. currently is awesome and it works perfectly.. a little attention and it might not anymore.

Keep in mind that people who don’t play engi, don’t know how good this healing skills is, if they find out! its a bye bye

Rofl. +1

waka.9826:

Chaith.8256:

waka.9826:

Chaith.8256:

waka.9826:

And what have you done for the engineer community??

Whelp, I don’t take a dump on people solely for making videos and sharing builds, that’s a good start I suppose. Haha.

Ps: Can I have your power bomb kit 1spam build?

Just whisper me in game. I would love to share my build

Too secret for forums?

Don’t you see how big this game is becoming? Gotta keep that stuff on lock. It’s a dog eat dog world bro.

That’s true.. I understand.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Chaith.8256:

I think that the healing turret is likely intended to be the support-ey heal. Maybe we’ll see some buffs to that in the future? It’s certainly under-represented at the moment. Time will tell!

I would be super happy with Med-kit if they made the cast time on the abilities 1/4s instead of 1/2s. There definitely is a lot of ‘down time’ when healing up.

The way healing turret is now, you’re disadvantaging yourself if you let it sit and do it’s thing. The best ways to use it are to blast finish the water field, pick it up for shorter cooldown, or try and pop the overcharged skill quickly (I think you might be able to get it on initial placement if you do it quickly). Otherwise, you’re just letting it put out a regen buff and you lose your ability to actually heal yourself when you need it. The only time it’s worth keeping it out is if you’re idling since the regen duration will increase over time.

Yep, you’re correct. The AoE support (when used in a way that doesn’t kitten yourself) is pretty much one water-blast and 8+ seconds of AoE regen every 20s.

Cleansing burst is AoE too, it’ll fire immediately after .5 seconds if you spam the button, but no regen or water field. Situational, and combined with a long CD, yucky.

I feel like it could be much better. Fingers crossed for the balance god’s favor!

I think that the healing turret is likely intended to be the support-ey heal. Maybe we’ll see some buffs to that in the future? It’s certainly under-represented at the moment. Time will tell!

I would be super happy with Med-kit if they made the cast time on the abilities 1/4s instead of 1/2s. There definitely is a lot of ‘down time’ when healing up.

waka.9826:

Chaith.8256:

waka.9826:

And what have you done for the engineer community??

Whelp, I don’t take a dump on people solely for making videos and sharing builds, that’s a good start I suppose. Haha.

Ps: Can I have your power bomb kit 1spam build?

Just whisper me in game. I would love to share my build

Too secret for forums?

waka.9826:

And what have you done for the engineer community??

Whelp, I don’t take a dump on people solely for making videos and sharing builds, that’s a good start I suppose. Haha.

Ps: Can I have your power bomb kit 1spam build?

Ostricheggs.3742:

No. I’m not sure if anyone knows the build as well as me because I created it and played it for months before anyone started to run it. I theory craft and try new things constantly and understand what every permutation of HGH enables a player to do. I strive to make the best build humanly possible and understand every bit of the build from stat distribution to condition application and raw physical damage. If you think you know more about this build than me you’re insane. I’ve played almost 4.3k damges on my engi, a good 2k of which was with some version of HGH.

But AGAIN, I agree it’s overpowered, I’ve stated as much a billion kittening times and was the first to say it.

I feel like you need to be called out on a few things.

This dude didn’t even try and discredit you, and you readying an immense e-penor for battle.

While I have full faith that you do intimately know every condi-nade variant, your playstyle is something that develops independently. Not every variant is going to be optimal for your exact playstyle, or in every encounter.

You don’t need to present yourself like some kind of inhuman guru that has exclusive understanding on the depth of these builds. Hell, I, like other Engineers I’m sure, have the mental capacity to ‘c wat u did thar’ and conclude most of the same findings that you did with regards to what builds are hot right now. I know you’re proud of the sigil of battle you slapped on a common condi-nade build, but please don’t act like it means that you invented the MMO genre. Stahp.

While you’ve been near strictly throwing nades since launch, and you have the most games played NA, this means you stomp the sheit out of most people. Does this mean that since you’ve had great success, you’re forgetting to admit your complete bias when you’re screaming “ENGIES ARE DISGUSTINGLY OVERPOWERED” on repeat? Absolutely.

In February, your main build was an HGH Power nade build. Condi-nade build something you ran 25% of the time. You’ve said on forums many times that condi-nade builds were simply not optimal in large teamfights, about 20,000 times, due to excessive condition clearing from the ranger/ele meta.

In March, last month, your main build switched to Condi-nades. This is where, according to your forum history, you start screaming that it’s overpowered. Repeatedly. Like every post since then.

What’s up with you, dude? I feel like you’re going a little off the deep end. I feel in terms of balance, a top Engineer on your team is not going to swing odds in your favor more than a top Elementalist or Guardian. Engineers can duel the pants off most classes, but you still lose if you get outplayed. A few might stacks above average, IMO.

Don’t get me wrong, I respect the hundreds of hours & thousands of games you have logged on Engineer. Just getting a little tired of your slanted preaching, heh.

Puandro.3245:

Thief couldn’t kill a Bunker if he landed his full combo with Signet, Engi on the other hand could.

With protection down, an 100nade Engineer burst could gib a Clerics amulet bunker Guardian or Elementalist if you landed 16/16 grenades. If protection was up, gibbing was not possible. Vs. a Soldier’s amulet Guardian/Elementalist bunker, randomly gibbing was simply not possible. With protection up, any burst attempts are just cute.

Puandro.3245:

Also Stun breaker would break thief’s combo but for an engi unless you had a teleport like shadowstep, blink, lightning flash, the stun breaker wouldnt work off magnet pull because you character was still in the “air” when the Barrage landed so stun break’s didnt work.

This is just wrong! You are not in the air when barrage landed, it’s a separate CC that happens when you land. Stunbreak once you’ve landed and you will get out of the 1s magnet stun. Balanced stance, Cleansing Fire, Armor of Earth, Save Yourselves, Contemplation of Purity, Stand your Ground, are some common ones that will save you. Practice, and don’t pop your stunbreak in the air.

On live, you’re not going to get 100naded, but you can still break the 1s magnet stun and avoid the subsequent Pry-bar.

Stunbreaking immediately after you are aware you’re being bursted by a thief is too late, the backstab comes in .25 seconds later. It’s possible sometimes to anticipate (unless it’s from stealth, or out of camera view), but it is extremely difficult to successfully avoid a backstab by reacting.

Speaking of reacting, when a Rifle or Toolkit Engineer is bursting, (not necessarily an 100nade Engi of before) there are opportunities out the kitten to avoid it completely. I’d associate it closely with the Warrior Greatsword in terms of telegraphing/predictability. Since an Engineer’s Rifle isn’t in any way comparable in the pressure it can put out alone, rifle/toolkit power builds are in a really dark & obscure place atm. 100nade was the only thing that was ever good about such builds that now lack burst on top of lacking survivability and disengages.

But oh well! Spamming conditions is great fun, too.

bromi.7809:

they realise the skill cap is higher than spamming 222222

Skill cap of facerolling HGH condi gren is extremely low. I blame exactly it for massive engi spawn.

Nope. Using grenades properly takes more practice than anything else I’ve encountered in this game.

Ostricheggs.3742:

Yamsandjams.3267:

I doubt they’ll change how HGH operates, but they may very well change how other things affect it. In particular, I could see them altering external boon duration bonuses. By external, I mean things from runes or food. For instance, they might put a cap on boon duration (or maybe just might duration) from runes or something like diminishing returns. That would be considered a nerf as far as HGH builds go, but it wouldn’t alter the way the trait functions.

I honestly figured this is the way they’d go. Sigil of battle in particular is what makes HgH and might stackin up to 25 viable.

Same. +40-60% Might increases through runes is on the overpowered side if your class has a might stacking trait & battle sigil.

If these runes went away, it’s not like there are no other good options or sigils, even. I’m in favor of limiting/diminishing returns on the runes & buffs.

Goloith.6349:

Chaith.8256:

Goloith.6349:

Forestnator.6298:

I use Sigil of battle for obvious reason?!

3 stacks of might (105 CD & Power) equals the following damage increases:

Burn = 25dmg
Bleed = 5
Poision = 10
Confusion = 15

Sigil of Earth = 2500
Sigil of Geomancy = 2100 up to 10500

Easy decision for condition damage builds

I sure wish all my decisions were this easy.

So, this is how you run Sigil of Battle, and here are the actual numbers.

On Live, a 30 Alchemy build with 2hoelbrak, 2fire, 2strength runes can get +90% duration to might. This setup is optimal when you’re running a sigil of battle, but with condi builds I recommend using 2 Lyssa to get a third tick on Incendiary Powder trait.

Let’s just say you’re optimizing your might stacking for a good comparison – and use full might duration runes. For these numbers, you have a +90% duration.

20 Second duration*(1+.9Duration) = 38 Second duration
38 Second duration / 9 Second cooldown = 12.66 Permanent might stacks (4.22*3)
12.66 Permanent might stacks = 443.10 Permanent power & condition damage, after maximum stacks have been achieved over 36 seconds, and player skill error reduces this.

So when you get the Sigil rolling, how much effective damage will 400ish power and condition damage do for you from this sigil alone? How much better will your HGH trait be? All this is without any positional requirements.

I recommend running a set-up that supports your choices before running the numbers, in cases like this there’s a huge gap between what you initially value it at and what it’s worth.

;)

Sigil of Battle has a 10 second cooldown. It would be sweet if it had a 9 second cooldown because you could go from 9 to 12 stacks. So only 9 stacks, but it at least gives you an 8 second buffer/forgiveness for stacking might.

So let’s look at the damage over 40 seconds to be fair.
First 10 secs = 733.87, next 10 sec = 1467.74, next 10 secs secs = 2201.61, next 10 secs 2201.61. So over a 40 second time period you are going to do 6604.83 total condition damage. Lets add 2000 condition damage for proc on crit to be generous. That’s 8604.83 damage with Sigil of Battle do some of the skills do AoE, yes, but it’s still going to fall short of Geomancy. Over a 40 second period of time Sigil of Earth would have inflicted 10000 to a single target, Sigil of Geomancy would have inflicted 8400 to a single target or 42000 damage to if you hit 5 targets consistently over that 40 second time period.

I have a lot of problems with how you are comparing these sigils. You are actually converting the might stacks into a damage value, and comparing that with the damage value of Geomancy/Earth that is easily measured.

If you apply many conditions or AoE many targets in that 10 second frame, each of those attacks are going to be greatly increased by the might stacks. It’s completely different then a proc for X damage. You can’t put a reliable damage number on might stacks benefit. Might stacks scale much higher if your activity level is high while under the effect of them. Earth and Geomancy are powerful, but individual attacks.

Saying Battle Sigil is 733.87 over 10 seconds, for example, is just over-simplified and completely inaccurate for almost all in-game encounters.

Your ‘numbers’ only reflect starting a battle with 0 Battle Sigil stacks. Geomancy is front loaded damage, and battle is based on ‘picking up momentum.’ After you’ve fully stacked and are keeping it stacked is when Battle peaks and gives the most benefit.

You can actually keep your might stacked and do many subsequent encounters fully or mostly fully loaded. You have to be spam critting immobilized enemies every 2 seconds for 40 seconds to get those numbers on Earth, or non-stop melee range Geomancy spam. It’s not reasonable at all. You only have to be in combat or take minor fall damage to use Battle – you don’t have to be attacking, or in range. Other than being boon stripped (which sucks) its not possible to counter Battle by dodging, or it missing.

Hopefully these things taken into consideration will help you to Theorycraft on your Engineer a little better.

Goloith.6349:

I’m not trying to belittle you Forest, I just want educate. …….. Now like you’ve mentioned before Forest that you can actually get 6 stacks of might if you are great at keeping track of timers at the 10 second mark.

Goloith.6349:

Sigil of Battle has a 10 second cooldown. It would be sweet if it had a 9 second cooldown because you could go from 9 to 12 stacks. So only 9 stacks, but it at least gives you an 8 second buffer/forgiveness for stacking might.

http://www.twitch.tv/chaithh/c/2125121

^^ This is all I have to say about those two comments.

Goloith.6349:

Forestnator.6298:

I use Sigil of battle for obvious reason?!

3 stacks of might (105 CD & Power) equals the following damage increases:

Burn = 25dmg
Bleed = 5
Poision = 10
Confusion = 15

Sigil of Earth = 2500
Sigil of Geomancy = 2100 up to 10500

Easy decision for condition damage builds

I sure wish all my decisions were this easy.

So, this is how you run Sigil of Battle, and here are the actual numbers.

On Live, a 30 Alchemy build with 2hoelbrak, 2fire, 2strength runes can get +90% duration to might. This setup is optimal when you’re running a sigil of battle, but with condi builds I recommend using 2 Lyssa to get a third tick on Incendiary Powder trait.

Let’s just say you’re optimizing your might stacking for a good comparison – and use full might duration runes. For these numbers, you have a +90% duration.

20 Second duration*(1+.9Duration) = 38 Second duration
38 Second duration / 9 Second cooldown = 12.66 Permanent might stacks (4.22*3)
12.66 Permanent might stacks = 443.10 Permanent power & condition damage, after maximum stacks have been achieved over 36 seconds, and player skill error reduces this.

So when you get the Sigil rolling, how much effective damage will 400ish power and condition damage do for you from this sigil alone? How much better will your HGH trait be? All this is without any positional requirements.

I recommend running a set-up that supports your choices before running the numbers, in cases like this there’s a huge gap between what you initially value it at and what it’s worth.

;)

Resouled.5614:

240 hp per 0,8s? I think that adds a ton to your survivability.

Cons:

-Requires 30pts in an extremely lacking trait line.
-Requires you to spam Bombkit1 to get full effect. (The proper way to play condition based kits are to maximize condition output by constant switching and using skillshots)
-If you’re moving, your bombs will not heal you. You have to literally pause for half a second for the bomb to explode on you. Nope. Not happening.

I feel like no player that has his movement and dodging down, who knows how to play defensively can ever play with elixir infused bombs. You really cannot finesse it.

Phineas Poe.3018:

But with Incendiary Powder you can take full advantage of its high attack rate to consistently apply burning across multiple targets. Permanently. Meaning all the time.

Chaith.8256:

Incendiary Powdertrait has a 3 second global cooldown .._.. It seems to me, if anything, that you see the FT through rose-colored lenses.

Phineas Poe.3018:

I don’t have rose-tinted glasses. I’ve just experimented with it more than you have

3 second global cooldown

Phineas Poe.3018:

In my experience, that is not how it works.

I think if anyone else wants to chime in here.. you will see that that is in fact how Incendiary Powder works. With proper duration you can keep perma burning, on one target. Very strong, but a far cry from how you describe it’s effects on your flamethrower damage. Any other burning is from channeling your flame jet for the full 2.5s.

Phineas Poe.3018:

But there’s no reason for belligerence.

Your jimmies are unjustly rustled.

Best perk of being an alchemical genius – we’ll just put the 15% blast in our elixir throws. Then we can have RNG while we RNG.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Chaith.8256:

You’re talking about something totally different than me. Survivability was a bad choice of words on my part, because I am speaking to the sustainability or effective health of engineers who choose to forego offensive options to achieve group support, or hybrid roles.

The Flamethrower takes up one slot, just as the Grenade Kit and Tool Kit do. If you think the EHP of a Grenadier is good, then an FT Engineer’s should be no different—if not better with the added Toughness.

Grenade kit is not taken by Engineers wishing to take a support/bunker role, to sustain themselves and their allies, like I just said. Elixir Gun & pre-nerf FT is what I’m talking about – support related utilities. I feel that at least EG should be able to fulfil/justify a support role if you invest enough. It can’t, and that is a problem. I would challenge you to make a cleric/shaman based build justified with how much damage this engineer could be doing.

Phineas Poe.3018:

But with Incendiary Powder you can take full advantage of its high attack rate to consistently apply burning across multiple targets. Permanently. Meaning all the time.

It’s a good thing you explained what permanently across multiple targets means, because my incendiary powder trait has a 3 second global cooldown, meaning that it only procs one time every 3 seconds. What’s cool about global cooldowns is they are internal, not external ‘per target’. It seems to me, if anything, that you see the FT through rose-colored lenses.

Phineas Poe.3018:

I’m really getting frustrated reading these posts that act like the Flamethrower has no viability in any situation ever, or that it is patently “forgoing offensive options” by wielding it over the Grenade Kit.

Whelp. 30 points into explosions to trait grenades yields a lot more single-target and multi-target damage in PvP then traiting 30 points into firearms to trait a flamethrower. Juggernaut trait requires you to sit in FT channeling flame jets to get full benefit, that’s something I will never do. A Flame Jet takes 2.5 seconds to channel. A grenade kit can drop 15 grenades in 2.5 seconds. You can dispute it if you like, but 3 shrapnel grenades, 3 flash grenades, 3 freeze grenades, and 3 poison grenades is going to put more numbers down then a flame jet & flame blast combo with extra burning. Not to mention bigger condition pressure that the FT lacks – poison, chill, & actual bleeds. Single target, nades are getting the incendiary ammo love, too.

Flamethrowers are optimal when your comp can blast your fire field a lot. Flamethrowers are optimal for FT5’n stomps if your elixir S toss is down.
Flamethrowers are optimal when you’re trying to interrupt a res/stomp/heal <—- this is the big one.

Don’t agree if you don’t want to, but the FT is based around utility, not unloading damage. FT is not optimal when your goal is to make them dead before you are made dead. It’s optimal for control and utility.

I am getting rather off-topic, though, so I’ll stop there.

google.3709:

@Chaith.8256:
sadly as this might be, EG/FT + surprise shot on berserker gear is the strongest straight DPS we have right now. it does a lot of hits, and big hits too but no where near 100nades.. no one is gonan be saying “WTF, how you kill so fast” but ye..
ps: FT 1 sucks! i only use for #2,5 and 5 ( for sPvP Stomp )

Hold up, Elixir Gun does not have a place in the ‘strongest straight dps’ build, haha. I would seriously contest flamethrower being in there, as well. All it offers for burst is flame blast. Strongest power damage? For SPVP? Right now, It’d be static discharge variants for sure. Want a completely suicidal YOLO build? I’d probably say:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQFAUl0piYnpSyF17IyYGkmoB+Qe95Bb9gQIA;TkAg0CnoCyojQHbOugk5MEB

Phineas Poe.3018:

The loss of two condition removals through kit swapping has affected its durability over lengthy fights, but to say that the FT/EG build has had its survivability “totally ruined” is a bit of an exaggeration. Wearing a Soldier trinket with socketed Knight jewel, an FT Engineer has 25K HP with close to 3K armor. The lost of one removed condition does not “totally ruin” anything.

You’re talking about something totally different than me. Survivability was a bad choice of words on my part, because I am speaking to the sustainability or effective health of engineers who choose to forego offensive options to achieve group support, or hybrid roles.

Sure man, you can put a soldier’s amulet on, for 3k toughness and 25k hp. Are you survivable? Definitely not. Your effective HP is 27k-ish, before your healing skill. What do you think a survivable staff guardian, or clerics amulet ele’s effective HP is?

We all have the tools to avoid burst. Quickness took a huge hit, 100nade is gone, I would like to think Mug is on the chopping block in the future.. I mean – the biggest problem in tPvP right now is how powerful the support skills from Elementalists and Guardians are.

Eles can equip a valk/clerics amulet and have damage/control & support, and have the disengage tools to survive indefinitely and hugely affect teamfights.

An engineer with a soldier’s amulet, and no condition removal is a hybrid. Part damage, and part fool. The only thing soldier’s amulet accomplishes is it serves as a direct counter to hotjoin hero thieves who will just spam 2 until they go down, without disengaging. By equipping a soldier’s amulet you’re basically saying:

“I’m cool with doing mediocre damage, and betting this fight will be over in 20 seconds. I sure hope I get some really nice control off, cause otherwise my team is carrying me. I definitely will prolong my life by 5 seconds if I do get outplayed and eat some full combos, though.”

NevirSayDie.6235:

“the only build for any profession that Anet considered so OP it had to be removed from the game.”

It’s a little funny when you phrase it like that. Sure I’ll miss the unique 100nade play style that I ….practiced obsessively for a while (hehheh) – but I am happier that GW2 gameplay took a step forward by removing a 1shot mechanic. Unfortunately, Engineer gameplay then took two steps backward to achieve this, but not all is lost.

Gideoknight.4736:

I haven’t been able to play a lot since the patch but so far I found that the synergy between my kits only went up. My choice of weapon is the much dreaded Flamethrower with Elixir Gun and Rifle as sidekicks.

I usually rush the fray with Flame Blast, followed by some Flame Jets. Well into the battle I swap to Elixir Gun trying to immobilize as many as possible. Then Fumigate, a Super Elixir, Acid Bomb for the Retaliation, swap to Rifle, Jump Shot in again, swap to Flame Thrower in the air for a Flame Shield, back to Rifle, Blunderbuss as I land, Overcharged Shot. Repeat.

Sorry for the long chain but, since writing isn’t my best side, I kind of lost patience.
Of course one would have to adjust according to situation but that is the main idea.
And one more thing, I find that Glue Trail is wonderful with the Sitting Duck trait, since it can bring many stacks of vulnerability into combat.

Someone happy with Kit Refinement? Burn him!

In all honesty though, there are maybe one or two under-represented single kit builds that have seen love from the Kit Refinement rework, such as.. uh, turret/gadget engineers who take bomb kit? It also depends if you’re pve or pvp. I’m taking kind of a tPvP standpoint.

My problem with cool kit builds, like yours, that I WANT to be able to play, now have next to no condition removal, sustained healing, and still no threatening killing power. You can’t make your enemies dead before they make you dead, and you can’t sustain yourself or allies with condition removal, or healing. It’s the numbers I feel are weak. There’s so much sacrifice, for that air blast, fumigate and super elixir utility, when you look at how hard you can rock with grenades & toolkit numbers.

This is my point, and also my rant:

Lets look at a medkit, EG/FT support build, before Kit refinement changes of February 26th (that introduced the 10s global). This kit build that inherently has 1-2 damaging skills per kit, and 13 condition removals per minute, with up to 3 removals on demand. Post March 26th, this same (already underplayed) build is down to only one condition removal on demand every 15s from medkit, AND had the the life sustaining double super elixir healing sliced in half, effectively. For such an under-utilized build, this just leaves me in shock & awe. The maximum condition removals per minute is only 30.77% of what it was, and the AOE healing from super elixir was gutted.

It may be true that for this kit support build, which depended on Kit Refinement the most, an adept trait being 69.23% of the condition removal available and god knows how much of the AOE healing support was too good. This trait was a build defining trait, that should not have been in the adept category. Now there is no build defining trait in tools, perhaps except for static discharge, or speedy kits (lolol, both adept traits)

You may feel that you like your glue trail and fire aura once each over 40 seconds gives you a ton of synergy, but.. I refuse to play EG/FT builds that have extremely low damage output potential, that have had their survivability totally ruined. The opportunity for proper balance was to fold the healing support and condition removal back into the elixir gun, through fumigate & super elixir. The trait should be comparatively balanced. The builds that it depended on should not be garbage for trait progression’s sake.

Here’s where I get a little heated:

Nothing matches the pressure from unloading 2 pistols & a grenade kit on somebody, with high might stacks. Oh, I can also get 12 condition removals per minute, with 6 condition removals per minute for my friends, and with 6 condition removals on demand for me. Oh, this was already the best build available since Dec14th change to sigils & HGH?

Better use a ton of programming time to introduce a ton of clunky effects that 75% of the playerbase will instantly chuck, destroying the already under-represented kit based builds that depended on the previous effects without folding any viability back in.

GENIUS.JPG

Kardiamond.6952:

I’m personaly a fan of super speed, and I’m curious to see how long it will last. 2 sec? Prolly not 5 sec like the real one, it would be OP on a 20 sec cooldown.

I like that you are actually grateful for lots of positive changes. Me too.

But just to be a downer (lawl), I’m not sure I’m in the same category as you when it comes to thinking Super Speed is good.

Super speed does not stack with swiftness, and in combat (with speedy kits on) all it does:

Make you run at out of combat speed for 2 seconds. You will cover like 100 extra distance. Out of combat with swiftness? It still would trigger, give you nothing, and put KR on cooldown for your next fight. That’s not cool with me, tbh. I will avoid using toolkit KR like the plague.

Punkins.2087:

Been using this for ages. Rocks.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fcAQJAqalspyanuSgF17IBoH5tu3V0jHT5J/pAbB;TkAAzU5YCSEkVHXOSdGiMrA

HGH Flamethrower builds are still yucky. I can’t deal with only being able to stack 2 bleeds, sure the burn is excessive.. but, it’s just that. Excessive. I don’t need incendiary ammo, blowtorch, burn on crit, and FT1, FT3, FT4. You can’t put enough pressure up from infinite burning and poison alone. The flamethrower knockback, although really sexy, is not going to make up for the huge hole it creates.

No shrapnel grenade, or geomancy = no bueno. If they made flame blast a replacement for shrapnel grenade, it’d be a different story.

Mif.3471:

Chaith.8256:

Mif.3471:

“Grenade Kit: Equipping this kit drops a mine at the player’s location that deals damage and removes a boon”

So my 1500 range kit drops a bomb at my feet?
Well that’s “useful”…. /facepalm

Not tooo much less useful than a grenade barrage that only hits @ 0 range when you’re at 1500. Heh. At least the mine sticks around.

The grenade barrage did a huge amount of damage. One mine won’t.
It simply isn’t worth the effort.

Effort. It’s probably going to be better as passive, not active ability, really. It seems to be just like free damage, that doesn’t require you to position yourself or anything. If it hits as hard as the throw mine ability, it’s possible to get like 3.6k crits in an offensive HGH grenade/explosion power build. But everything remains to be seen, it might be too early for a snap judgement.

The goal of this patch was to bring really good kit refinements (nade, EG) down, and bad ones up. (Bomb, med-kit, etc.)

Mif.3471:

“Grenade Kit: Equipping this kit drops a mine at the player’s location that deals damage and removes a boon”

So my 1500 range kit drops a bomb at my feet?
Well that’s “useful”…. /facepalm

Not tooo much less useful than a grenade barrage that only hits @ 0 range when you’re at 1500. Heh. At least the mine sticks around.

The Geomancy sigil / nightmare rune variant is quite formidable as well, that’s my preference due to the aoe bleed spike. I feel slightly less obligated to use my elixirs on CD as well, saving them for condition cure counters is easier. Trading might stacks for condition damage & duration takes down the risk of a devastating boon strip too, but it’s hardly noticeable.

Pros and cons, yo.

Runes & sigils are just something you have to get used to / like as a player, there are few good choices. You can even rock a rampager amulet to the same degree of success, but I feel it doesn’t offer enough reaction time when people are really after your chocolate starfish.

The traits are excellent though.. it truly is the ‘top dog’ in the current Engi meta it seems.. which is a little disappointing.

Seras.5702:

But I we don’t have a single “ice” attack

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Freeze_Grenade

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Launch_Ice_Mortar

But I think agree that lightning fields are really missing in this game, and engineer turrets/gadgets would be a prime candidate to generate them.