Guild Wars 2

LoneDeranger.5963:

That isn’t a similar effect. That isn’t what I meant.

I just wanted to make it easier for ppl who aren’t ingame as regularly as those ppl without a real-life to get the loot they want.

So….you’re saying there should be an incentive NOT to log in? That seems like a GREAT idea!!!!

/sarcasm

Coopziana.1802:

I just read a post on it and I actually have my own idea that I’d like to suggest outside that post.

To make dyes account bound would be silly as the market would get flooded with dyes as it would only take 1 dye to unlock it account wide. So to get around the issue of that myself and a friend came up with a great idea!

Abyss dye (account bound).
How?
Get 4 abyss dyes and throw them in the forge and get 1 account bound abyss dye that unlocks on all character slots.

This would in turn actually increase the sales on all dyes and give players the account wide dye unlocks we have all been wanting.

+1 if you like and drop a reply to keep this suggestion on page 1 in the forums.

This is actually one of the best ideas I’ve seen regarding Account Bound Dyes. Most threads are just complaint threads stating “lies” or ways that Anet isn’t “sticking to the ideals set forth in the manifesto”.

The only suggestion that I would add to it is that these Account Bound Dyes are truly Account Bound….meaning that once they’re created, they cannot be sold. Individual Soulbound and Unidentified Dyes can, of course, still continue to be traded freely.

Several other possibilities for Mystic Forge recipes could include:

• 3x of the same dye + some Mystic Forge item (Eldritch Scroll / Bloodstone Shard / etc.) = Account Bound version of dye
• 3x random dye + some Mystic Forge item = random Account Bound dye
  • This method would play to the gamblers in the game that want to try for an expensive dye using cheap inputs, but would be very risky due to the random nature of receiving something you already have and cannot sell.

I can see ANet adding Trait saving and swapping out of combat at some point. Maybe it’ll still cost money to do….maybe it won’t. My guess is that out of all of the gold sinks in the game, this is one that’s used least often. Sinks like WP’s and armor repairs I’m sure generate a far larger gold sink than re-traiting does.

If they were to do it, I feel it should be done out of combat and not allowed in WvW or any other area that has any type of PvP associated with it. I think the imbalance it could cause in WvW would be too great to allow….even if it’s out of combat.

I see the comparisons to GW1 with build saving. It does hold some merit and ArenaNet made changes to that quite some time after release. Initially, you couldn’t save and load builds at all. It took quite some time before you could that. Also….does anyone remember Attribute Refund Points? That system was scrapped fairly early on in the game.

I’m sure ArenaNet is looking at all of the systems in the game, reading the forums, and evaluating the efficiency of their systems regarding their initial intent. They are well known for completely changing the mechanics of a system that either doesn’t work as intended, or is more of a pain than it’s worth.

Build saving and loading was a HUGE improvement over the initial system in GW1. I really can see them implementing something along those lines in the future into GW2.

I like the idea as well, but without the condition that Kal mentioned of having completed the missions before when the content was live.

If they gave us a way to experience the content whether we played it while it was live or not would be an amazing way to give new players the opportunity to experience everything that is, or once was, in the game.

I completely agree on no rewards though.

I think it would be VERY difficult to implement though. So much of the Living World content was group based and would require the implementation of a new instance of the world for each different Living World content release.

Would a player get access to all of the Living World and special even content or just some of it? Would we be able to play the Halloween and Wintersday content, or would it be limited to Flame & Frost, Secrets of Southsun and content like that?

Xehanort.4589:

marnick.4305:

Xehanort.4589:

Hello, I’m trying to buy gems at a certain price, but i can’t check everytime theirt price, i have to play too and the price is always on the move. Is there an api that makes a sound when the price falls under a certain value that you can set?

Their price is fixed at 10 euros per 800 gems, although you could try to find bargains online. Apart from a few deals bargains, the price hasn’t moved since launch.

Are you serious or what? Obviously I meant the gold gem exchange.

Actually….his answer is quite relevant, but now that you’ve clarified that you were talking about the Gold to Gem Exchange….I’ll try to answer as well.

Currently there are no apps available to inform users of the price of Gems for Gold. However, there is an unofficial API that you can use to create one yourself. I’m sure many people would find use for an app like that. GW2Spidy uses this unofficial API to give current pricing and history on their website and they have an API you can use to get their data without needing to authenticate your connection like you’d have to do through the unofficial / official API.

There are many threads on many forums throughout the web that can help point you in the right direction as far as getting started on using that API. I suggest going to GW2Spidy first and trying to create your own app using their API. Once you’ve got a base, you can change your code to figure out how to use the unofficial / official API and you’ll already have the base notification part of your application complete.

TL;DR
Nothing exists currently…..you’ll have to create your own.

Aruemar.7891:

It is quite obvious that someone controls the copper ore market or someone just took control from someone else. Recently, I just saw a spike of 500k in buy orders(13c ) which was not there when I last checked (3-4 hours ago, around 2 am, GTM-5) and there no trend that will lead to that massive spike in buy orders.(Note: Also, there is a sell order of 1.2m, 17c each)

So my question is, how is possible to place that order?It seems to me, they will need to type 250&13c at least 2,000 times.

Or is there a trick/programs which does this?

There’s no trick to placing that many buy orders….it’s called latency.

If you were to put a quantity of 250 (max possible) in at a price of 13c each and click the “Place Order” button once, you’ll put an order in for 250. On the other hand, if you can rapidly click (or double-click) that button, you can put in multiple buy orders at the same quantity for the same price and probably place buy orders for a couple of thousand items. If you program a button to just keep clicking while you hold it down….there’s a possibility of getting 10’s of THOUSANDS of that same item for the same price before the latency catches up with you.

If that’s your goal….use a laptop over a wifi connection to INCREASE your latency.

It’s all a matter of how quickly you can click that button….

P.S. Be careful using this technique. I doubt seriously it’s intended. Also, you could end up buying a LOT more of something than you want. I stumbled across it by accident when I happened to double-click the “Buy” button instead of simply clicking it.

Edit:
P.P.S. As far as I’m aware, this only works when buying something. It won’t work if you’re trying to sell stuff.

kesla.9187:

ironicly that is how they got around my email and hacked me. It works yes but the issue is if they disable all verification to get into your account you are still defenseless. The idea of the code is that you only can get it if you have a way to verify yourself other than account name and password.

So, you’re saying that this hacker had your e-mail address, password AND a way to authenticate their connection using your randomly generated 6-digit code?

How could they disable all the verification on your account if you were using the two-factor authentication? Were you using it only on the game and not also using it on the e-mail account attached to the game?

I’ve gotten e-mails from ArenaNet stating that attempts were made to access my account without authorization before, but no one has ever made it past the second layer of protection. It’s just very confusing to me. Two-Factor Authentication works if you use it properly.

ArenaNet has implemented Two-Factor Authentication for logging in to its games and websites. It’s not required to use, but is an option.

Check out this link….It may be what you’re looking for.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Beta-Feature-Mobile-Two-Factor-Authentication/first#post398418

I use it to log into GW2 and I find it very handy. Just an option for you….

I don’t know what kind of metadata that Cliff and the team at Anet has, but I think the issue of event linking could be solved with the addition of 2 parameters to the “event_names” API.

If you added….
“event_success” : event_id
“event_fail” : event_id

…..those two items could allow developers to do a complete event chain link and if multiple events are required to have a “Success” state in order to complete them, they would each have the same event_id in their “event_success” parameter.

Like I said….I don’t know if it’s possible, but it’s something to look at.

I would like to see an API that gives me all of the recipe details for all of the recipes in one JSON file. Currently, the procedure for getting all of the recipe details is…..

Step 1: Call “recipes” to get the list of recipe_id’s
Step 2: Loop through each recipe_id
Step 3: Call “recipe_details” to get the details of each recipe

This method takes a large amount of bandwidth as the current recipe_id list is 6870 items long….each requiring an individual call to get its details.

If a new “recipes_details” API was created or “recipe_details” would allow for the request of multiple recipes at once (say 250), then the number of requests would be dramatically reduced.

If the new “recipes_details” was created that contained ALL details for ALL recipes, then you would only need to call it once to get all of the information.

If the current “recipe_details” allowed for multiple requests (250), then you would need 6870 / 250 = 27.48 or 28 calls.

Either way, 1 or 28 calls, is FAR less than 6870 calls and would reduce bandwidth dramatically.

Edit: I haven’t tried using the “items” and “item_details” API’s yet, but I would hazard a guess that they work the same way.

Sky.7610:

Does anyone know how i can maximize my profit using these? Current have around 3 kit laying around and trying to get rid of them.

I remember seeing a thread somewhere recently about buying a certain item on the TP, salvage it and the Rune would sell more than the purchased item, + etcos… with a black lion salvage kit…

Trolls will be trolls. Why would you even care about making money with 3 Black Lion Salvage Kits when you already have…..8448g in your inventory?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Gold-useless-more-ways-to-spend-it/first

I was having the same problem, but ended up getting the PoI by going around the outside of the platform to the right. Once you get to the end, do a little jumping toward the PoI. You won’t actually be able to jump up on anything, but the PoI should pop for you. It took me a few tries, but I finally got it.

Sauzo.6821:

Well you do know that the TP is across all NA servers so that’s a lot of people to get lucky with the mystic forge. So it’s not necessarily finding the sweet spot, it’s the fact that you got what 15 servers(guessing atm since I’m not ingame) with X amount of people on the servers all “playing” be it MF, dungeons, farming, etc etc.

This is incorrect. The Trading Post is actually global and covers ALL servers, not just North American ones.

munkiman.3068:

Pandemoniac.4739:

munkiman.3068:

Since there is an exchange rate, you could say that gems have a value, which in turn translates to in game gold. Just because you gamble with chips which can be traded for money, doesn’t all the suddenly make it not gambling anymore. Not that i really care about the whole gambling argument, i’m just pointing that out.

I don’t particularly care about the gambling argument either, but I think the fact that the conversion is one way (gold can’t be converted to cash) would be an important legal distinction.

I don’t doubt that there have been plenty of legal discussions over this and I would imagine ANET isn’t to worried about it, but in this case a key cost $1.20 usd and you can clearly attach a monetary value on it. According to the Germany law argument that constitutes gambling there, even if all you are winning is pretty pixels. I’m no lawyer, German or otherwise, but if it is possible to get sued over it in Germany, maybe they should just pull the keys from the store there.

I think it’s the addition of the second layer of purchase, the fact that Gems do not have to be “purchased” with real money, Keys do not have to be purchased with Gems, and that Keys are not the only things in the Gem Store that can be purchased with Gems that gives them the legal grounds for them to fight a lawsuit regarding this, or any matter associated to it.

munkiman.3068:

Charismatic Harm.9683:

FourthVariety.5463:

Gambling is defined at the moment where you enter a game of chance in exchange for money.

By this statement alone, Black Lion Chests are not gambling. Black Lion Keys are purchased with Gems….not money.

Gems can be purchased with either money or in-game gold.

Since there is an exchange rate, you could say that gems have a value, which in turn translates to in game gold. Just because you gamble with chips which can be traded for money, doesn’t all the suddenly make it not gambling anymore. Not that i really care about the whole gambling argument, i’m just pointing that out.

You can say that Gems have a value all you want, but in reality, they don’t. If they do, then there would be somewhere that I could exchange my Gems for real money. If that exists, please show me.

The conversion of money into something else is a one way street. Nothing in Guild Wars 2 has a monetary value that can be directly associated with it (unless by means against the EULA or ToS).

FourthVariety.5463:

Gambling is defined at the moment where you enter a game of chance in exchange for money.

By this statement alone, Black Lion Chests are not gambling. Black Lion Keys are purchased with Gems….not money.

Gems can be purchased with either money or in-game gold.

Edit:

I get it….I really do. Players are upset because they want the skins from the chest and there’s no guarantee they’ll get it no matter how many keys they buy or chests they unlock.

As long as players continue to support these methods, ArenaNet will continue to put “awesome stuff” in these, or similar, chests.

Players can complain all they want, but nothing will change until ArenaNet isn’t making money using these types of business practices.

Pandemoniac.4739:

I’m not arguing the point about chests always containing something – I agree that viewing keys as a “chance to win” doesn’t really sync up. My point is that all of these “only drop from chests” items are either temporary or have a substitute that can be purchased outright.

If your argument is that there are substitutes for those items, I’ll agree….there are. There are also substitutes for weapon skins too….LOTS of them. A substitute is something similar, but not exactly the same….right?

That’s not really the argument though. The argument is that THESE skins are not available anywhere else. I see that as a good thing….a VERY good thing, in fact.

Players complain there isn’t enough rarity or customization in the game and that everyone looks the same. Having one of these skins is “prestigious” in the minds of some players. The argument boils down to the same thing that it does in every other thread regarding a prestigious item…..

“I want that shiny, but….”

• “I don’t want to pay that much for it.”
• “I want other ways to get it.”
• “I don’t want to spend real money for it.”
• “I don’t want to gamble for it.”

Those are all subjective opinions. If a player doesn’t like the method of acquisition, then don’t participate. If they don’t like how much it costs, don’t buy it. If they don’t want to spend real money on it, then don’t spend real money on it. If you don’t want to “gamble”, then don’t. As long as players continue to support the methods of acquisition, ArenaNet will continue to use that business model. Money talks….as does the lack of money.

munkiman.3068:

Charismatic Harm.9683:

But….but….aren’t the odds 100% that you’ll get something from the Black Lion Chest? So, you ALWAYS win. Every single time, you win. You never lose.

You may not get what YOU want….but you ALWAYS get something.

There’s actually no gambling involved at all when you win every time.

This isn’t the point at all, everyone of those items are purchasable by other means. If i want a booster pack i’ll buy one, if i want a backpack i’ll buy one, if i want dyes i’ll buy them.

Actually….that’s EXACTLY my point. The definition of gambling and “winning” are what seem to be in question.

These skins are not the only items exclusive to the Black Lion Chest. Here is a list of all of the other things you can only get from the chest (Source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Black_Lion_Chest):

• Tonics
  • 1 Endless Mystery Tonic

• Boosters
  • Armor Booster
  • Speed Booster
  • Strength Booster

• Backpacks
  • Pink Quaggan Backpack Set
  • Tiger Charr Backpack Set

• Influence
  • 1 Small Guild Discovery
  • 1 Medium Guild Discovery
  • 1 Large Guild Discovery

• Tools
  • 1 Black Lion Harvesting Sickle
  • 1 Black Lion Logging Axe
  • 1 Black Lion Mining Pick

• Everlasting items
  • 1 Permanent Bank Access Contract
  • 1 Permanent Black Lion Merchant Contract
  • 1 Permanent Trading Post Express Contract
  • 1 Permanent Hair Stylist Contract

When opening a Black Lion Chest, you always get something so, in the sense of gambling, you always win. If it were gambling, then you could lose, which means you would get nothing. That’s not the case here. Again….you always get something.

The problem players are having is that they’re not getting exactly what they want and the only way to get them is from the chest. Whether or not they find the other items in the chest of value to them, that doesn’t mean they’re getting nothing. It means they’re getting “nothing of value to them”. There’s a BIG difference.

All of the items on the list above are “rare”. Players are choosing to select a single item from a list of “rare” items that they want as the only thing of value in the chest. While this may be the case for them, it is not the case when discussing the chest in general. What one player deems “valuable” is not what all players deem “valuable”.

As for the gambling argument…it’s silly. Black Lion Chests are not gambling because you never lose.

But….but….aren’t the odds 100% that you’ll get something from the Black Lion Chest? So, you ALWAYS win. Every single time, you win. You never lose.

You may not get what YOU want….but you ALWAYS get something.

There’s actually no gambling involved at all when you win every time.

It sounds to me like ArenaNet should stop selling GW2 in Germany and block all German IP addresses….just to be safe.

Stormclaw.5031:

“Hey ANet, would you consider selling the Fused weapon tickets in the store for 4500 gems?”

Why can’t the skins be for purchase in the gem store also? That’s what irks me. I would pay a higher price for the knowing I would get it than having to gamble.

Arenanet makes far, far more money exploiting peoples’ gambling tendencies than they would from the few people who would buy a skin outright.

That’s just the thing though. If ArenaNet offered the skins for 4500 Gems, some people would buy them because they feel the RNG will never be in their favor, while some people will still gamble because they feel they can get the skin without spending 4500 Gems….and still others will complain because even though they’re getting what they want (purchasable in the Gem Store) they feel the price is still too high.

No matter what they do, people will complain…it’s just human nature.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

The better solution would be to limit the chest not to one per character per day, but one per character SLOT per day.

Alt deleting would do nothing for a player in terms of chest farming, but if a person actually cashed out and got more character slots, then fair enough, take the additional chests.

I believe this would fix and alt deleting problem, SAB or otherwise.

I was going to suggest this myself, but I wanted to make sure it hadn’t been suggested yet. Too bad I had to read 2 pages of posts before someone made a slight modification to the original suggestion that would solve the issue of “delete farming” while still allowing new players to access the content right away.

I think this would be a really good solution to the “issue” as it would still keep the sell-able skins rare, it would allow players with multiple alts to get more chances at the chests, would allow new players to access the content immediately, and would still give players a viable way to “farm” for the skins they want (through baubles….not bubbles) for themselves without flooding the market with the sell-able ones.

I don’t think ArenaNet intended for delete farming to be a viable way to increase your chances at the rare skins. If they had, they would allow you to run it as many times as you’d like on 1 character without having to delete farm and would not have implemented the “once per character per day” rule.

dunebeetle.4307:

Celeras.4980:

This thread is not about a counter, but having the boss kill being a necessity for the achievement. That requirement should be removed, or the boss kill shouldn’t automatically port you from the zone. Again just my opinion, but I don’t think a counter is needed.

Let’s try to stay on topic, thanks!

This is an internet forum, not a courtroom.

OFF topic:

That may be, but it’s also Celeras’s thread. If they would like it to stay on topic, they’re welcome to “self-moderate” by reporting posts that go off topic. In this case, they made a request rather than reporting the post.

Back ON topic:

While I think it would be nice to have the achievement trigger before the boss kill, I think it’s a little bit against the goal of the achievement. They want you to make sure you don’t kill the boss before you get all the baubles. A counter would solve this issue, but would also be against the intent, imo.

Since other achievements within SAB will trigger without a boss kill, maybe this one should too. I don’t think you should be able to stay in the zone after killing the boss though.

Nike.2631:

It will crack me up without end if someone wins their gambling argument legally – and ANet just pulls the whole game from that country as being too much of a pain in the rump to bother doing business there at all.

That’s exactly what I was thinking….

Would be all too funny if they just said: “We’re sorry to inform those people that would like to play Guild Wars 2 in <insert country name>, but we are unable to legally sell, or allow you to play, our game in <country name>. All IP addresses originating from <country name> will not be supported, will be tracked and those accounts banned. Thank you for your understanding.”

The good thing is that they wouldn’t be able to complain on the forums though…because their account would be banned. A few less complainers wouldn’t hurt the game, or the community.

Astral Projections.7320:

What about this as an analogy? I have a house (a game) that you can come inside of (log onto) and play. While you are in my house, you may play with the items in there, but I retain ownership at all times. One day I get some nice new items which I put inside some boxes and say, you pay me money for keys to open up these boxes. If the box has the item then while you are in my house you may play with it. I however, still retain ownership of the items.

Is this gambling? Since ownership never transferred, I would have to say no.

You can’t start using logical comparisons and analogies on the forums. Peoples heads will start to explode.

Raestloz.7134:

About the supply of precursors, well, it’s for another thread.

Actually….no. That’s what THIS thread is about.

munkiman.3068:

Just FYI, proceeding the karka event, the price of dusk plummeted 200g the next day. Proving that increasing the drop rate will make the prices for pres go down significantly.

The reason for this was because the entire supply was created at exactly the same time. So, what we saw was the market being flooded with precursors and everyone trying to sell theirs, and to do that, they were undercutting each other.

When looking at the price of Dusk around the time of the Lost Shores event, we can see the price at its highest (~410g) a few days before the event ended. During the final days of the event, prices began to plummet due to speculation of the final event chest rewarding precursors. On the 18th of November, when the event ended, prices fell continuously until the 21st when they bottomed out….falling to around 240g. It was only a temporary drop in price though as VERY soon after that, price began climbing again. They climbed steadily since then to the point we see them at now.

The factors involved during and after that event are more than just supply and demand. There was speculation and panic as well. The supply was increased an extraordinary amount with the implementation of that final even chest. Keep in mind there were also technical problems during the final event where many people were disconnected or didn’t get their loot. There were also players that were double dipping into the chest and getting multiple precursors by logging in with multiple characters. SO many factors contributed to the sudden drop in price….it’s difficult to pinpoint whether it was solely the increase in supply, or if the panic, speculation, and players “just wanting to get paid” had anything to do with it.

laokoko.7403:

How does the price of something no one want justify the price of something people wants being too expensive.

Simply because they’re both precursors for Legendary weapons.

laokoko.7403:

Maybe Anet should double the drop rate of precursor and triple the rate of mystic forge and make venom 10 gold and dusk 200 gold.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

ArenaNet controls the supply of precursors through an algorithm that determines the chance that a player will get a precursor through a world drop, or from a recipe via the Mystic Forge.

That is what you wrote yourself and now you say Anet don’t control the precursor price?

That’s right. They control the supply….NOT the price. The price, in this case, is STILL determined by overabundance of DEMAND!!!

laokoko.7403:

I get it. There is no demand for Venom that why it is cheap. And there is high demand for dusk, that is why that is expensive.

If you get it, then why do you still keep saying that the price is controlled by ArenaNet?

laokoko.7403:

But why do you keep neglecting the reality if Anet increase the drop rate, or mystic forge rate, or add in more event which drop precursor it’ll be cheaper.

I’m not neglecting that possibility….but it would also require the supply to be great enough to outweigh the current demand for the item. Doubling, tripling, or even, quadrupling the supply at this point would probably barely touch whether the price comes down…..again….based on the demand for the item. I guarantee you if they were to increase the supply of precursors, the price of Venom would fall because the demand for it just isn’t there to support the price it’s at now. As for Dusk / Dawn….there may be a reduction, but it would most likely be negligible.

Precursors….ALL precursors….are meant to be rare. Rarity usually comes with a price. I’m sure the intent of the low world and Mystic Forge drop rate was to keep precursors rare. I doubt ArenaNet could have predicted the disparity between Venom and Dusk…..but the fact is, the demand for Dusk is much higher than the demand for Venom, therefore, the price players are willing to pay for it is higher. If players didn’t want the item as badly as they do, the price wouldn’t be as high as it is.

Please take the time and read this article: http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp

In particular, the section on “Excess Demand”. Maybe then you’ll truly understand what’s going on with these highly popular precursors.

If that is truly the case, then Venom would be as expensive as Dusk, but it’s not. Dusk is much more expensive than Venom because more players want Dusk than want Venom.

ArenaNet controls the supply of precursors through an algorithm that determines the chance that a player will get a precursor through a world drop, or from a recipe via the Mystic Forge.

Let’s make one assumption regarding world drops just to simplify things. Each time a player kills an enemy capable of dropping a precursor, they are given a chance to get one through the algorithm controlling the loot table. Let’s say that player “gets a lucky roll” and a precursor is going to drop for them. At that point, let’s assume that the player is going to get a precursor and has an equal chance to get any of the precursors available.

The second way to get one is through a Mystic Forge recipe. The Mystic Forge recipe is 4 Rare or Exotic weapons lvl 76 or higher. They don’t have to be the same kind of weapons either. However, the player can improve their odds by throwing lvl 76 Rares of the same type in….in the example of Dusk / Dawn, that would be Greatswords….for Venom, it would be Tridents. Now….the player can increase their odds even further by throwing in 4 lvl 80 Exotics of the same type. The chances to receive a precursor via the Mystic Forge are the same, no matter which one you’re going for. You’re not more likely to get a Venom by throwing in 4 lvl 80 Exotic Tridents than you are to receive a Dusk or Dawn by throwing in 4 lvl 80 Exotic Greatswords. In actuality, throwing greatswords into the Forge gives you double the chance of getting something valuable since there are 2 possible outcomes, even if one of them isn’t the one you want.

Take a look at the prices of rare and exotic greatswords vs. the prices of rare and exotic tridents on the Trading Post. The greatswords are significantly higher….most likely because more players are buying them to throw into the Forge for a chance at Dusk / Dawn.

Even with the extra supply that the player base is attempting to generate via the Mystic Forge, that shows us that the demand for the item far outstrips the supply. Players can’t make Dusk / Dawn fast enough to lower the price significantly. Even if ArenaNet was to double, triple, or quadruple the supply of precursors….would it be enough to satisfy the demand? Probably not….and we can see that from the Karka Event. Precursors were dropping like candy during that event and the prices fell for a short time, but once the players went through the supply, the prices began to rise again. If ArenaNet introduced that kind of supply on a full time basis…..yes….prices would drop….but not because they are controlling the price. The only thing they control is the supply….the rarity of the item. The price is still controlled by the player base. The price will fall with an increase in supply as long as demand allows for it to, but that’s how supply and demand works.

As supply increases, prices will fall as long as there is not sufficient demand for the item. Prices may still rise if the demand far outweighs the supply though. This is the case for the popular precursors (Dusk, Dawn, Hunter).

As demand decreases, prices will fall as long as there is sufficient supply for the item. This is the case for less popular precursors (Venom).

In order for the price of an item to reach equilibrium, the amount of supply vs. the amount of demand for the item will be virtually equal. Take a look at the chart I posted in my OP. Look at the expensive items. The prices of those are REALLY high…..because the “demand” for them far outstrips the “supply”. Now….look at the inexpensive items. The prices of those are low in comparison, but look at their volume ratios…..it’s nearly 1….meaning that the “supply” and “demand” for those items are nearing equilibrium.

If ArenaNet increased supply of precursors, it may bring the prices down, but only if the demand for precursors doesn’t continue to far outweigh the supply.

ArenaNet does NOT control the price of precursors….the players do. Plain and simple.

laokoko.7403:

Let me quote what you said in your first post “My findings are, whether you like it or not, that prices are being dictated by the player base.”

That is wrong right? The “difference” of precursor price is set by the players. But the price of precursor is really set by Anet.

Infact the price of the popular precursor is most likely set by the mystic forge. You may be right about those “less popular” precursor price. But without the mystic forge, the price of spark, dawn, dusk, might be in the thousdand.

So it is supply and demand. “But” Anet is really the one controling the supply.

Look at it another way, almost no one will bother to spend 600 gold in material for a trident legendary, “yet” Venom cost 30+ gold. Because the supply is low right?

And you are not even discussing about supply “and” demand. You are really discussing a market in which there is a “fix” on supply and how the variation of demand will adjust the item price.

Perhaps I should clarify my initial findings….

My findings are, whether you like it or not, that prices on the Trading Post are being dictated by the player base.

There….that’s better.

You are correct in stating that ArenaNet sets the price of precursor though. They did give it a value if you want to sell it to a vendor. That’s not really the price we’re talking about though…is it?

The price we’re talking about is the price of a precursor on the Trading Post. ArenaNet’s initial price of a precursor on the Trading Post would have been 1 copper above the vendor value, and that’s the ONLY time they will set the price of an item on the Trading Post. They will only set the low end price of an item at 1 copper above the vendor value. It seems that the price is WAY above that right now…even for the precursors fewer players want.

How is it that the price of the precursors have gone up so much? It couldn’t be because of the demand (how many players want the item)…..could it?

So….while the supply (set by ArenaNet through drop rate chance and Mystic Forge recipe) and demand (how many players want the item) are both contributing factors of the price of a precursor on the Trading Post…..which do you think has more impact on why the price is high?

I have a feeling you’re going to say supply because the supply is so low. While that is PART of the “issue”…..it’s not nearly the entire picture. If supply was the only contributing factor to the price of a precursor on the Trading Post, then Venom and Dusk would have nearly identical prices…..but they don’t.

It seems that the supply of Venom vs. the demand for it are pretty well in line. If the supply of Venom is meant to represent the supply of all precursors, then the demand for the others must be what’s driving the price up…..but I don’t know. Maybe you should shed some light on exactly what’s going on because I can’t follow your logic at all.

Edit: TL;DR – ArenaNet sets the rarity of an item. The players determine the price of that item based on it’s rarity and how much they are willing to pay for the item.

Anet = Supply / rarity / vendor value
Players = Demand / value / price on the Trading Post

munkiman.3068:

Actually, I think more of the wanted precursors move more as the supply could be higher due to, just suggesting here, people attempt to forge the higher demanded items to make more money based on the same forge rate as the lower demanded ones…. Which you would think would actually bring the costs down :shruggs:

You make a valid point, but you would also need to take into consideration the cost of creation as well. I haven’t checked, but I would guess that the price of rare greatswords is much higher than the price of rare tridents since there are two highly demanded greatsword precursors.

Edit:

You’d also need to look into crafting materials due to the fact that it may be less expensive to craft those greatswords instead of buying them to throw into the MF.

laokoko.7403:

It is supply and demand. I’m just saying OP forget why precursor price is so expensive “beside” the demand is high.

It is because the “supply” is also low. Which is “completely” controled by Anet. So when OP act like Anet have “nothing” to do with the precursor price. I think that is completely wrong.

Do you also feel that the price of Venom is also too high? The supply of that is completely controlled by ArenaNet as well and is most likely equal to the supply of all other precursors, including ones like Dusk, Dawn or The Hunter. Do you feel if the supply listed on the Trading Post for The Hunter, using the data in my original post, was also 41 like the Venom that the price of The Hunter would also be 33g like it is for Venom?

If supply (drop rates) for precursors remain constant and equal for all precursors, as demand for an item rises, so does its price. That is simple economics. The price of a precursor is set by supply AND demand. Assuming the supply (drop rate) of all precursors is exactly the same (as I stated in my OP), then we can deduce that the reason for the price differential can be equated to the demand (how many players want that precursor) for that item. Again….as the demand rises, so does the price.

It’s not that ArenaNet has “nothing” to do with the price of precursors because they do control the supply….so sure….I’ll agree with you there. You need to look at the entire picture though. The difference in price of various precursors is due to demand…..not supply. Venom is “cheap” in comparison because very few people want it. That doesn’t make Venom any less of a precursor used in the crafting of a Legendary though. It just makes it less in demand…..hence the price for it is lower.

Syeria.4812:

….as prices for crystalline dust were relatively stable (around 5s-7s) until the introduction of the Triforge Pendant (ascended) which required 750 crystalline dust to craft and was the only available ascended amulet for some time…..

Ok….so if I understand it correctly, the introduction of this amulet recipe is the true culprit of the rise in T6 Dust. If that’s the case, then what are all of these other arguments trying to play with other areas of the markets to fix a problem that didn’t exist before the introduction of this recipe? 750 of any item, especially a T6 item, is an extremely large amount for a recipe. Rather than looking at silk or leather or bags….perhaps you should be asking Anet to look into the Ascended Triforge Amulet recipe. What if it only used 250 instead of 750? They could then replace the other 2 stacks of dust with something else….like Elonian Wine, Ectos, Obsidian Shards or Fractal Relics. Replacing 2 stacks of dust with something else would reduce the consumption of dust by 2/3 without the need to touch supply. In time, the price of dust should come down to a reasonable level…probably not the 5s-7s range where it was when it started, but at least more manageable.

You’re mistaken in your view that RNG is making it take longer and cost more. RNG, in this case, is intended to keep an item rare by a very low drop rate or chance of creating one via the Mystic Forge.

Your friends who farm 10 hours a day aren’t necessarily “getting lucky”….they’re increasing the probability that RNG will be in their favor with each enemy they kill that has the possibility to drop a precursor. They aren’t the entitled ones. They’re the ones working toward their goals. The entitled ones are the ones that think they too should have an item because other people do.

Entitlement is defined by Merriam-Webster as (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/entitlement):
Definition of ENTITLEMENT
1
a : the state or condition of being entitled : right
b : a right to benefits specified especially by law or contract
2
: a government program providing benefits to members of a specified group; also : funds supporting or distributed by such a program
3
: belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privileges

In the case of video games and this discussion, the definitions stated in 1b and 3 are most applicable. So many complaints about precursors and Legendaries are rooted in a players “wants” or what they think they deserve because they purchased the game….not what they actually deserve.

Ursan.7846:

Because it is supply and demand?

See: Venom.

You’re stealing Vol’s argument…..he’s going to be MAAAAAADDDDD!!!! :-)

Your argument is flawed in the simple sense that it’s not “supply of Legendary precursors” that’s the problem…..it’s the “supply of POPULAR Legendary precursors”. What that means is that Legendaries……ALL Legendaries…..are meant to be rare. If all you want is a Legendary, there are several precursors that are FAR less expensive than their more popular counterparts. Make one of those.

Yes, ArenaNet controls the supply of precursors, but the players control the demand for them….and the prices OF them.

If what you want is a Legendary, it won’t take you very much longer at all than it did in the beginning to craft one yourself. If you want a VERY POPULAR Legendary….it will take you a great deal longer to craft it because the DEMAND for that Legendary and it’s precursor has gone up…..as has the price.

To blame ArenaNet for the pricing of an item is to point the finger in the wrong direction. Those items are meant to be rare and ArenaNet has made the drop rate and Mystic Forge recipes accordingly to keep them that way. However, ArenaNet does NOT control demand for an item or the price of it….the players do.

You’re also correct in your statement that the precursor price is set by the Mystic Forge rate. How many rare Tridents do you see being thrown in the MF? What are the prices of those rares on the TP? If they’re equal to the price of rare Greatswords, why do you think that is? Is it because people are buying to throw them in the Mystic Forge….or are they buying them to salvage for Ectoplasms? My guess is ecto….not MF.

Btw…..this is also not a “cash shop mmorpg”. Nothing in the cash shop makes you a better player, nor is any of it necessary to play the game. They are all convenience items. If you’re making the argument that you can buy gems with real money, convert those gems to gold, then buy a Legendary off the Trading Post, while that is true….you can…..have you done the math? How many people do you think will actually do that?

Your entire argument seems based on the fact that you want a precursor / Legendary, you want it right now, you can’t afford it, and you’re not willing to put the work required into getting one. That’s called entitlement.

My guess is that you and all of the other entitled players that continue to cry because you don’t have your pretty shiny will eventually make ArenaNet cave and start handing out precursors like candy. When that happens….how quickly will you start complaining that Legendaries are now too easy to get, everyone has one, and they’re far too expensive for how commonplace they are?

munkiman.3068:

Hopefully you don’t represent anets outlook. That’s all i got.

Actually….I do hope that I represent ArenaNet’s outlook on Guild Wars 2. That would mean that they’ve made a game that is easy to get into for casual players and doesn’t require a grind to get max stat gear, provides content for above average and hardcore gamers that offer them a challenge, and pretty shinies that if you save your pennies, you can strive to achieve in a reasonable amount of time. Oh wait…..that’s what Guild Wars 2 is….isn’t it?

The sad part is….they’ll cave to the entitled and start handing things out like candy….essentially ruining the game by making everything too easy to get.

I really hope they don’t cave though. Only time will tell.

I love seeing all of these threads that state how a simple change would fix everything and then seeing them get voted up.

Does anyone realize the impact this change would actually have on the game, the market, or the economy? Or….is it just the fact that you want what you want, but feel the price of what you want is too expensive so rather than working for something, or god forbid, saving for it…..you want it given to you?

@munkiman

Players only consider it a job because they want some of the most expensive items in the game without putting in the work required to get them. Those items are out of reach for those players for a reason….and that reason is because the amount of effort to get them is greater than what they’re willing to put in.

Look at “effort” however you’d like and associate it with whichever part of the game you want to…..but it’s going to take one of the following to get….

• A lot of dungeon runs to amass the gold you need to buy from the Trading Post
• A knowledge of the Trading Post and the ability to find profitable items so that you can amass the gold you need to buy it from the Trading Post
• A great deal of time playing the game and killing mobs to increase your chances of getting the item you’re wanting
• Pure, unadulterated luck
• or a combination of the items listed above (or some that aren’t listed)

Any way you look at it……it’s the players expectations that are out of whack…..not the systems in place currently. While they could probably be adjusted slightly, they aren’t SO broken that they need a complete overhaul.

Windwalker.2047:

Only problem is that some of the things in the gem store are needed for normal gameplay (if anyone can play with the basic 30 slot bank i take my hat off to them)

Your statement is false. There is nothing in the Gem Store at the moment that is needed, or required, to play. Certain items in the Gem Store do make playing the game more convenient….such as bank tabs and bag slots, but they are not required. “Needed” in your statement is an opinion, not a fact.

Pandemoniac.4739:

Charismatic Harm.9683:

In a way, you kind of prove MY point, lol.
(snip)

What if you thought about Legendaries as the HoM reward for GW2? All it really is is a skin anyway….

Well if it seems like I agree with you it’s because I do… mostly

Why do legendaries have to be the account bound reward when there are other items that already fulfill that role? What if we flip it around and ask if you got a lucky drop of a precursor for a legendary you didn’t want, why shouldn’t you be able to turn your game playing effort into a huge pile of gold?

When I get home from work and off my phone, I think I’m going to price out the legendary recipes to see how much value the account bound components add just out of curiousity (assuming the precursor is free)

You may have misunderstood my point. I didn’t say that precursors should be Account Bound….I said that Legendaries should be.

Precursors differ in one simple way…..they are a world drop. Legendaries are crafted by a specific Mystic Forge recipe that is guaranteed to give you one if you put in the correct amount of the correct pieces.

The Mystic Forge recipe for a precursor is a “random chance” recipe, not a guaranteed one and similar to how world drops work.

Perhaps it would be best to clarify my stance on why Legendaries should be Account Bound. What I really mean is…..anything that requires Account Bound materials to craft should also be Account Bound. I would even include foods created by the Chef discipline that require Account Bound ingredients.

@Essence Snow

I realize your post was meant to be humorous, but the sentiment of your post rings true throughout the forums.

I was hoping you’d actually mention the Trading Post as one of those methods of gaining gold that is leaps and bounds above other methods…but you didn’t come right out and say it, although I think that’s what you were implying, lol.

Many forum goers need to realize one simple fact: Making money on the Trading Post is NOT EASY!!!! It takes a LOT of work….it’s just a different kind of work. It’s not looking for the most efficient path in a dungeon, or tweaking a build to get your DPS just right, or picking the perfect team of players to get you through it faster. Doing those things require a certain mindset and capabilities that are not available to everyone. It is, however, the ability to acquire data, formulate calculations based on that data, present those calculations in a meaningful way, understand that presentation, and then act in the most appropriate way based on the amount of information you have.

Whether it’s playing a certain type of content in the game, or playing the Trading Post, both require more work than many people realize….and the reason players don’t realize how much work it takes to figure it out is because many of them just use what other people provide for them. They’ve rarely ever tried to figure it out for themselves.

You compare buying things from NPC’s to buying things from the Trading Post. Those are two COMPLETELY different animals.

Increasing your earning potential in game will allow you to more easily pay NPC’s for their goods and services…..so long as those prices aren’t increased by ArenaNet as well.

Increasing your earning potential in game will NOT allow you buy goods from the Trading Post.

While your idea may help the casual player get some of the things in the game, like Cultural Armor, it will not put them on a faster path to acquire things like Legendaries and will actually create a larger disparity between NPC offered items and items from the TP.

You actually touch on the point I’ve been trying to make this whole time. High valued items are valued that way for a reason…..players want them. You say you don’t want to have to get a second job (CoF P1) to pay for them……well, you don’t have to now. All you have to do is extend your timeline for the purchase. If you want it NOW….get a second job. If you’re willing to wait for it….play normally.

I think the transfer rate is fine as it is.

As more players want new things available in the Gem Store, they convert their in-game gold to Gems and the price goes up. The reason they do this is because they’d rather part with their in-game money than their real money. The value of the items in the Gem Store doesn’t change unless they go on sale. When things go on sale, the conversion increases yet again…and more complaints arise.

What players don’t realize is that the conversion of gold to Gems is a convenience that ArenaNet added into GW2 so that you didn’t HAVE to buy things from the Gem Store with real money. As the conversion rate gets “worse and worse”, more players will turn to using real money to buy Gems instead of converting their gold to do so. That’s what ArenaNet wants anyway. They don’t care about your gold, they care about your money.

Btw….those sales….they are really only meant for the players that use real money to buy Gems….not the ones that convert gold to Gems.

@munkiman

I fully understand your examples, but those only address the day to day costs of playing. There are a LOT fewer people that complain about those than complain about the pricing of items on the Trading Post.

How would increasing your earning potential affect that? What would the price of precursors, Legendaries, Charged Lodestones and other high end items look like?

Pandemoniac.4739:

Charismatic Harm.9683:

Shortened or skipped journey aside….Legendaries should be Account Bound in my opinion. You should not be able to buy them with gold at all. They should be reserved for those players that gathered the Account Bound materials necessary to craft one via the content in the game that provided them.
.

I have mixed feelings about this… I agree with the sentiment and in some ways I think that there should be rewards like the GW1 HOM rewards that you can’t get unless you play the game. I think the high end karma and dungeon gear fills this role.

On the other hand, I don’t know why there shouldn’t be extremely expensive items that reward the TP players and the farmers that can generate that kind of gold. Heck even the folks that spend real money to get gold (legitimately) help the game by supporting development.

In a way, you kind of prove MY point, lol.

You like the idea of the HoM rewards from GW1 being exclusive to those players that played GW1 and accomplished a great many things, including, but not limited to: Acquiring skills, Vanquishing, Cartography, etc.

What if you thought about Legendaries as the HoM reward for GW2? All it really is is a skin anyway….just like the skins in the HoM from GW1. If that’s the case, then they SHOULD be reserved only for the people that completed that journey. Right? :-)

@munkiman

Increasing the earning potential across the board will NOT accomplish the goal you want it to….unless the goal is to make those fixed costs of playing the game (WP travel, repairs, etc.) have less of an impact on your pocket book.

It will NOT do anything for disparity of pricing of items on the Trading Post. When people start making more money, the price of goods WILL go up…..across the board. There will STILL be extremely expensive items listed on the TP as well as extremely inexpensive items. The difference between the two will remain the same.

The only way to bring the price of something down it to increase the supply, but when talking about those items in GW2, we’re talking about precursors and Legendaries. One of the reasons people want them is because there’s exclusivity associated with them. The more of them there are, the less exclusive they are.

Shortened or skipped journey aside….Legendaries should be Account Bound in my opinion. You should not be able to buy them with gold at all. They should be reserved for those players that gathered the Account Bound materials necessary to craft one via the content in the game that provided them.

At least that way, the wielding of a Legendary weapon would show that YOU completed those tasks and YOU acquired the Account Bound items you need to craft it. The way it is now….no one really knows….no matter how ridiculous it seems to many of us that you can convert real money to gems to gold and buy one outright.

The fundamental difference between Karma and gold is that Karma cannot be transferred from player to player. It is a closed system. Gold is an open system in which transfers can be made freely.

With a closed system, changes can be made that don’t greatly impact other areas. Sure, they can have some impact, but that impact is minimized due to it being a closed system.

If Anet was to try and make a similar change with the gold system, all that would happen is that prices would adjust themselves according to the change. If more gold is introduced through drops, the prices of goods would rise.

Here’s a quick breakdown of the systems being compared:

Karma (price of goods) = ArenaNet
Karma (availability of currency) = ArenaNet

Gold (price of goods) = Players
Gold (availability of currency) = ArenaNet

The MAJOR difference between the two is that the pricing of items purchased with gold are controlled by the players.

In order to make gold act more like Karma, either ArenaNet would have to take control of the pricing of every item in the game, thereby removing the need for the Trading Post, or give control of the availability of the currency to the players. Both of those options are horrible ideas. The Trading Post is an amazing tool that allows players to set their own prices and acquire goods they want / need quickly…..I would hate to see the Trading Post be eliminated. If Anet was to give control of the availability of gold to the players, we’d be swamped with gold and pretty much everything in the game would be worthless.

As it is now, Anet is trying to balance the availability of gold to close the gap between the average player and the grinder or TP player. They can’t do anything drastic though because it will quickly become exploited. Look at the two recent changes made to the meta-event boss chests. Initially, the market was flooded with items because players could farm the meta-events gathering up many items extremely rapidly. A change was made to limit that item creation because many players were using this new system that was intended to reward players for spreading out and playing more content because players were “exploiting” (I use this term loosely) the system and generating items far more quickly than was intended. So….Anet IS trying to change the system, but there isn’t a magic bullet, so they have to make small, subtle changes and see how those changes play out.

Syeria.4812:

Logic would dictate that the maximum investment should be one of the least efficient methods instead. The best baseline would actually be one that’s very much still possible: obtaining the item on your own without purchasing anything from the TP. But people see shortcuts and decide the fastest route is the only route.

This is, and will always be, the issue. If ArenaNet decided to use the baseline you suggested, that would mean that a majority of players could acquire “high end goods” by playing the game normally. What is “normally” though? Therein lies another problem. What’s normal for one person isn’t normal for another, so all you’ve effectively done is lower the hurdle. How low should that hurdle be? These “high end goods” are NOT meant to be acquired by every player in the game. Let me repeat that…..they’re NOT meant to be acquired by every player in the game. They are the “carrot on the stick” for those players that enjoy the grind of an MMO.

If you lower the hurdle and make everything easier to get, everyone will have one, no one will feel special by having it, and people will complain that there’s no “end game”. We already see that complaint about GW2, whether it’s true or not. Those players complaining about GW2 not having an “end game” are most likely the ones that rushed through as fast as they possibly could to get to level 80, complete the personal storyline and get their Legendary…..in the process, skipping a great deal of content that ArenaNet intended for them to play along the way.