Guild Wars 2

Unspecified.9142:

I don’t think I said anything about people should sell them for less or the current prices being unjustified.

My issue is that the current prices ARE justified. The system for acquiring precursors is broken (imho). The single biggest problem I have is the uncertainty, the randomness, the lack of guaranteed reward regardless of work, and the fact that some people have precursors handed to them while others spend months struggling and still have no precursor.

I think the best bet for you is to hold off on your pursuit of a Legendary until another method is created to get the precursor by ArenaNet.

Play the game….save your money….maybe you’ll end up getting enough just by playing to buy your precursor off the TP.

You do realize that a Legendary is meant to be a long term goal…..right? Just because people have gotten lucky and have been able to shave time off the crafting of theirs doesn’t mean the system is broken. It’s inconvenient for those that don’t get lucky, but not broken.

I really hope that ArenaNet does follow through on the scavenger hunt, but you know what? Whatever system they implement in a scavenger hunt is going to be met with even MORE complaining about precursors. If it’s too easy, the prices for precursors will drop and people will complain. If it’s too hard, the prices for precursors will rise even higher and people will complain. They can’t please everyone….and in a way, they can’t please anyone.

I also hope that the scavenger hunt is REALLY difficult. I hope it takes 16 new gifts to craft a precursor, requiring 100’s of items to make those gifts and MONTHS before we can figure out all the new recipes. An epic scavenger hunt would be the icing on the cake for Legendaries. The only problem is……people will just buy them because the scavenger hunt is “too much work”. I would love to have something epic to spend my time doing rather than running dungeons.

Fikfain.5849:

Vol.5241:

Your system is too complicated and unrewarding.

The current gold system is fine. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having currencies.

How is it any more complicated? If anything, the lack of a need to compare everything to some standard currency is less complicated. What’s so rewarding about the current system? I see plenty of people complaining in this forum that suggests they don’t see it quite so rewarding.

The complaints you see on the forums come from the vocal minority. There are MANY people that are extremely happy with the game, yet don’t come onto the forums to tell people so.

I am VERY happy with GW2 and enjoy playing it immensely. I do NOT play only for gold….but I do need gold in order to get some of the things I want from the game.

Are there things that could use some fixing? Sure!! Is the removal of gold as a currency one of them? No….absolutely not. Is the change to an “honor system” a necessary change? No.

As I stated before…..

MMO players, in general (this does NOT mean ALL MMO players), are selfish. Even I’m selfish as an MMO player. I have my own goals….my own desires. Those goals and desires are why we play the game. They make it fun for us.

Catisa.6507:

Tom.3981:

So I just hope anyone from ArenaNet is reading this, and here are my proposed solutions:
- immortality and no effect in the puzzle area
- no weapons and spells in the puzzle area
- automatic revive (farm issue)

The real solution:
-If you don’t like PvP stay the heck off a PvP map. Done. Simple. Already implemented.

The problem isn’t that players don’t like the PvP maps….the problem is that ArenaNet put PvE content INSIDE of a PvP map. The solutions that the poster you quoted would make it so that the PvE’rs that aren’t really contributing to PvP can get in, get out, and open up some slots for those that DO want to PvP…..or who knows…maybe they’ll stick around and help out.

It would also force griefers outside of the jumping puzzle where they are visible to the zerg.

Le sigh……..another thread about mounts. :-(

Ursan.7846:

^OP isn’t even proposing a barter system. He’s talking about people, simply putting up items for no reward aside from “titles” and others simply taking it for free.

Oh god!!! I totally missed that the first time through (obviously). I guess I gave the OP the benefit of the doubt that he was suggesting a barter system.

What I explained is bad…..but…..no. The OP’s idea definitely would not work.

MMO players, in general, are too selfish and without a way to flex their kitten, a game such as this would be devoid of players.

What you suggest would be for a true barter system.

You see something you like, you have certain items to trade for it. The owner then accepts whether or not they’ll accept your trade.

This is the reason currency was created. Too many people wanted to sell their goods, but others weren’t offering what they needed, so trades got complicated and involved a group of people in order to get everyone what they wanted.

It would more of a headache than it’s worth. Take this example for instance.

Player 1 has Item A and wants Item B
Player 2 has Item C and wants Item D
Player 3 has Item E and wants Item F
Player 4 has Item B and wants Item C
Player 5 has Item D and wants Item E
Player 6 has Item F and wants Item A

So, for this to work….

Player 6 trades his Item F for Player 3’s Item E, then trades Item E for Player 5’s Item D, then trades Item D for Player 2’s Item C, then trades Item C for Player 4’s Item B, then trades Player 1 for Item A.

Wow!!!! That’s exhausting!!!

Instead….give everyone a universal currency. Now….Player 6 can just buy Item A that he wants from Player 1 straight away and sell his Item F to Player 3 who wants to buy it. MUCH more efficient.

Death Reincarnated.3570:

@ Iures.2894

Let me rephrase. You should be able to plot a trend line (i.e. linear line of best fit), however this should not actually appear in the graph (i.e. straight line). Once again, economical data is based on a quasi-chaotic system. If you remove this from the equation then realisticly speaking you should get zero gradient, however this is not the case here, hence there is an underlining factor added to the gem/gold exchange which can be associated to manipulation.

I believe that you don’t understand the conversion rates for Gems to Gold and Gold to Gems. These two conversions, while they have similar conversion rates, are not the same. They are separated by a 30% buffer. As the price of Gold to Gems rises, the price of Gems to Gold also rises…..but more slowly. The gap between them when the price is low is small, but as the price rises, the gap increases….but always remains at 30%. This 30% is not a tax though. It’s meant to discourage players from converting from one to the other and back again quickly.

There’s no market manipulation going on in the Gems market. It’s simply easier and faster for some people to buy Gems with real money, then convert them to Gold so they can buy their in-game “shinies”. I’ve seen MANY posts where players are implementing their own subscription fee and buying a certain amount of Gems each month. I don’t know what those players are doing with them, but I’d venture a guess that some of them are converting them to Gold.

Anu Vare.5812:

Not to take any attention away from your thread but I have my own thread full of ideas:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Suggested-Improvements-to-the-BLTC-UI/first#post1375793

Your thread is only about improvements to the UI….not about improvements to the systems behind the UI that hinder player buying and selling, but are in place to combat botting.

I would like the community to provide specific examples about how to make these tasks easier or faster for the player, while making it more difficult for botters.

I guess I’ll start….

Idea: Keep the current system in place as it does somewhat combat botting by slowing it down, but add the following systems on top to speed things up for the players.

Buy Side: Give the ability to input user determined quantity up to any amount (as long as they have the gold to cover the buy order in their inventory) and add a CAPTCHA for buy orders over 250.

Sell Side: Give the user the ability to list all of the same item at once, but add a CAPTCHA for sell orders over 250. Also add a random CAPTCHA instead of having the “Error attempting to sell” every 10-15 listings.

How it combats botting: The current system isn’t changed. CAPTCHA is added to further hinder botters adding multiple listings or buy orders and the “Error attempting to sell” is replaced by the CAPTCHA so that it must be answered correctly before another sell listing can be made.

So as not to hijack this thread, I have created a new thread asking the community for ideas to make buying and selling on the Trading Post easier for the player, while still combating botting.

How can buying and selling on the Trading Post be improved for the player, while still combating botters?

The reason I created this thread was due to a lot of complaints I see in these forums about the way the Trading Post works when buying and selling. I would like the community to come up with ideas to improve the functionality of the Trading Post regarding buying and selling of items, but keeping in mind, your idea needs to make it more difficult for botters than the current system.

The goal is to make it easier for the players and more difficult for botters. Please reply using the following format, or discuss other players’ ideas.

Format:

Idea:
How it combats botting:

Mystic.5934:

bot users would REALLY want this suggestion.

I agree completely.

The real problem is coming up with a system that makes it easy for the players and impossible for botters. I see players throwing out ideas all the time, but nearly every one is thinking about it only from the player side. Many of their ideas, while making it easier for the player, would make it REALLY easy for botters.

There have been many topics discussing this, and similar, “issues” with the Trading Post.

This system is in place to slow down and combat botting. While it is inconvenient for players, it also makes things more difficult for botters.

I don’t know if there’s an actual system that could work (like CAPTCHA), but it would be nice if they tried something like that.

The problem with CAPTCHA is that it takes away from the immersion aspect and I’m sure players would complain about it….even though the system would be in place to “help” players, while still combating botting.

I think there are some factors that many people seem to miss.

I’m going to use GW2Spidy as the reference point because I would guess that many in this conversation use that site to get their information, or at least are well aware of that site.

While GW2Spidy provides a great deal of information, they do NOT provide the entire picture. They provide us with 4, very simple, pieces of information that many people misunderstand as being a complete picture: Current Buy Price, Current Sell Price, Current Demand and Current Supply.

While these 4 pieces of information supply us with some data to make assumptions and predictions, they are NOT the entire picture.

Let’s break it down….

Current Buy Price: This is one price point. It happens to be the highest price that someone has put in as a buy order to buy this item.

Current Sell Price: This is one price point. It happens to be the lowest price at which a seller created a sell listing for this item.

Current Supply: This is the total number of sell listing for this item encompassing all sell listings at all prices.

Current Demand: This is the total number of buy orders for this item encompassing all buy orders at all prices.

There is SO much missing information though. What about the distribution of those sell listings? How many are placed at all the price points from lowest to highest? How many of those sell listings will NEVER be sold….yet still count toward the total number of “supply”?

That information can be acquired, but it has to be done manually. You can go into each item and see the distribution of sell listings at the various prices as well as the buy orders at the various prices.

Even with that information, it still doesn’t paint a true picture of supply and demand. There is supply that’s being held based on any number of reasons: the current sell price is too low, the player may be saving them for some reason, some people just like to hoard things. The same goes for buyers. Maybe the price of this item is too high right now, but if the price was to fall, there are players that would buy this item, even though they don’t have a current buy order in place.

These are what I like to call Hidden Supply and Hidden Demand. Those, in combination with the visible supply and demand from buy orders and sell listings would allow us to create a fairly representative supply and demand curve.

The problem here is that that data isn’t available anywhere….at least not publicly, nor could it every really be attained. Hidden Supply and Demand are just that….hidden. An assumption, or best fit curve, could be made to explain it, but it’s really just an estimation.

Another thing that seems to always be left out, but was mentioned about by another poster, is the traffic of sales that isn’t displayed on GW2Spidy. This traffic is more representative of the actual supply of and demand for an item.

I’m sure that ArenaNet tracks every sale of every item live as it happens. They are the only ones with this data. I’m sure it’s THIS data that John is referring to. I highly doubt that ArenaNet will make this data public….but if they do, that would be awesome. Until then, we have to take the word of the ArenaNet employee that’s participating in this forum. I, for one, am willing to do that. He has the information. I do not.

forever.6908:

This is non-sense. No way you can prove no market manipulation with any method you could propose. That you cannot do it doesn’t mean others cannot do it either. And 2000 gold is not even remotely enough to manipulate the market. No further discussions necessary.

While I agree that 2000 gold isn’t enough to manipulate THE market….but it may be enough to manipulate A market.

Smooth Penguin hasn’t been back to post in this thread yet, but I, too, would like to see his theories.

I think if you chose a single item that doesn’t currently look to be manipulated by another, or multiple, players, I think it could be manipulated to drive the price up.

I say this because I wonder how many people have looked at the price of butter and chocolate over the last couple of months….

Nike.2631:

Your entire post

I clipped it because I didn’t need to quote it. I just wanted you to know I feel exactly the same way. Legendaries are a long term goal….not a short term one. I’ll get mine too…..eventually.

You’re right.

Good luck getting your idea implemented.

Actually….I think a better explanation would be to use a real-world example on how greater taxes affect an economy.

I’m going to try and do a VERY broad stroke on this because to go into every single detail would be more than I’m willing to type….and probably MUCH more than many are willing to read.

Let’s make a few assumptions before we begin so that we can at least put players in the correct buckets for comparison.

Assumptions:
There are 3 groups of people: Poor, Average and Rich
Poor = bottom 10% of the player base (Poverty)
Average = middle 80% of the player base (Middle Class)
Rich = top 10% of the player base (Wealthy)

Example:
When a government (in this case ArenaNet) implements higher taxes, everyone is affected. The Poor make the least amount of money and are affect the greatest because the money they have buys less than it did before. The Average players money also buys less, but the affect on their bottom line is lower because they have more money to begin with. As for the Rich, these new taxes do little to them because they have money to lose. The Rich are the ones in control of the prices, so in order to make sure they continue to make money, they will pass on as much of the additional cost provided by these new taxes on to their customers (the Poor and Average players).

While these new taxes take more money out of the economy and cause the profits of the Rich to reduce, the Rich are STILL going to make a profit….at the expense of the Poor and Average player. With these new higher taxes come higher prices on goods. With higher prices on goods, the purchasing power of the money that the Poor and Average have is reduced.

Some people are Rich because they got lucky. Some are Rich because they worked hard. Some people are Poor because they are unlucky. Some are Poor because they’re lazy.

The Trading Post is NOT required to acquire ANYTHING in this game. Everything on the Trading Post was found in the game from a drop or by some other means. EVERYTHING!!!!

What that means is that it is not necessary to buy or sell anything on the Trading Post….it’s just the most convenient way to do so.

If someone doesn’t like the prices of items on the Trading Post, they are NOT required to pay them. The item they desire IS available within the game by other means.

Most of the threads I’m seeing in regard to gimping the Trading Post are being made because players want a certain item and it is currently out of reach for that player due to its price on the Trading Post.

I’m going to use the specific example of Legendaries and their precursors….

Legendaries are NOT for everyone. The precursors for Legendaries are NOT for everyone. If you feel that Legendaries and their precursors are too expensive based on their price on the Trading Post, then perhaps it’s time to find another way to acquire those items. There are other ways. Are you willing to put the work in? I am…and I’m working on it…..SLOWLY!!! A Legendary is supposed to be a “long term” goal.

Gimping the Trading Post by adding MORE taxes will not fix any problems….it will only create new ones….or make the current ones worse than they already are.

You may believe it’s better for the normal player, but it will actually be detrimental for the game.

Players that buy/sell regularly will still do so, but pass on the extra 15% of fees on to their customers. Also, it will most likely lead more players to more risky forms of trading that are not supported by ArenaNet (i.e. trading through the mail system). It will most likely also make players turn to other forms of trading that are strictly against the EULA, like eBay and gold sellers.

If people can’t sell their goods because prices are too high, they’ll stop farming, because what’s the point? If you can’t sell your goods, you can’t make money. If you can’t make money, you can’t buy anything. If you can’t buy anything, how are you supposed to gear your character? If you can’t gear your character, how are you going to progress?

The 15% fees as they are now are perfectly fine and serve as an amazing gold sink to keep inflation in check. Every time an item is listed on the trading post, or purchased by a buyer, money is removed from the economy.

As for this combatting “flippers”….it won’t really do much. “Flippers” will still flip and still make money. The prices of the items that those people trade in are pretty steady.

It sounds like you’re most concerned with the high value, low supply items. A higher tax on the Trading Post will only make those items MORE expensive, because the people “manipulating” (if that’s even what’s going on) those items will just jack the price up more.

Again….15% is fine. No need to change it.

It might have something to do with future plans for your Home Instance too. Who knows, but I doubt we’ll see a race change added to the game.

I can’t see a race change being implemented. It would completely break the Personal Storyline. There is a whole section that is based on the race you chose…and the choices within that race.

As for a name change…..they could add that, make a little money, and it wouldn’t break anything. I don’t want it, but I’d +1 that for others that do.

Essence Snow.3194:

Humor me for a moment plz. Hypothetically, if a progressive tax were added wouldn’t it help curb inflation? Maybe enough to…oh idk maybe…diminish the DR on farming/dungeons/dragons/events? Since DR combats inflation by limiting inputs and a tax combats inflation via outputs, couldn’t they re-balance the ratio as to make the game more fun for the 85% vs the 15%?

What you’re suggesting is to tax the rich more…..just because they’re rich. That doesn’t make sense. Why should someone be punished because they are able to do something you are not?

Believe me, if you wanted to be rich, you could be.

I play the TP because it’s fun to make money and I don’t want my life spent in game to be spent farming. I don’t get all that much time to play the way it is. I spent MOST of my time in GW1 farming. I got REALLY burned out on it. I didn’t want that for myself in GW2. I spent the first 6-8 weeks building a tool to help me analyze the TP for the purpose of making money. So…I’m a little behind in my progress in the game, but I have money.

You’re suggesting that because I spent my time trying to make money and you spent your time playing the game that I should pay more to use the Trading Post than you do. I wholeheartedly do NOT agree with this mentality. I put my work in too….just differently than you did.

Don’t try to punish me for choosing to do what I did, while you chose a different path. I don’t suggest that ArenaNet tries to hinder your play style.

Playing the TP doesn’t actually accumulate anything….it moves wealth around….and REMOVES some currency in the process.

Areas that get “nerfed” with DR or decreased loot drops are “nerfed” because they are ADDING too much currency to the game. Every time an enemy drops an item or coin, it adds currency to the game.

I think the reason that there is DR in areas that include farming….dungeons, DE’s, etc…..is because those areas ADD things into the game through loot drops and coin.

The Trading Post doesn’t add anything. It actually REMOVES coin from the game by moving it from one player to another and taking a cut. The taxes and fees associated with trading ARE the DR for the Trading Post. Just because the loss is fixed at 15%, that doesn’t mean more needs to be added.

I don’t think there even CAN be DR on the TP….

How would that even work?

Right now, buy orders and sell listings are player controlled. How could Anet implement DR on something they don’t control?

Are you suggesting that Anet adds false buy orders to overcut certain players that play the TP a lot? Are you suggesting that they add false sell listings to undercut the sell orders of TP players too?

Maybe you’re suggesting higher fees for high volume TP players? Maybe you’re suggesting implementing taxes on the placement of buy orders?

Please clarify…..I’m confused.

Divinity’s Reach is my favorite.

The Bank and Guild Bank are right next to each other and the BLTC is just across the hall. It takes about 10 seconds to get there….if that.

Also, downstairs are ALL of the crafting tables lined up against one wall. There’s a WP right next to the Bank and another right across the road from the crafting tables.

For me, those 4 things (Bank, Guild Bank, BLTC, & crafting tables) are the things I use most often, so their close proximity to each other is wonderful.

Well, I for one do play the TP and have far more than 20g sitting in my bank. I want to acquire as much wealth as I possibly can for one simple reason…..I don’t want to farm.

I played GW1 from nearly the very beginning (the Feb 2005 Beta Weekend). For nearly 7 years, I farmed. I farmed….farmed some more….then farmed some more. It burned me out on the game, but I never really had the money to buy the vanity items I wanted. I didn’t get Obsidian Armor for my main until almost 6 years in….and I saved and farmed for MONTHS to get it.

I approached GW2 with a different mindset. I knew I’d want / need money in this game, but I also knew I didn’t want to farm my life away. I didn’t want to feel like every minute in the game was meant to be spent running dungeons, farming DE’s or repeating some menial task over and over and over again.

I wanted to enjoy the game this time and be amazed at my surroundings. I spent the first 6-8 weeks the game was released creating, updating, and automating a spreadsheet to help me figure out where to invest my money. I’m now in the process of moving this spreadsheet into a database so that I can make the best use of cross referencing different markets to determine the most efficient path to investing.

The time I spent at the beginning of the game has given me a tool that I can use throughout the life of the game. Any time I feel I need more money….I go to my spreadsheet, do some investing, then collect my profits.

Also, a long term goal of mine is to craft a Legendary. I actually want to craft it….not buy it off the TP. That doesn’t mean that I won’t make 2 and sell one though.

It’s fun for me to make money on the TP, mainly because I had such a difficult time making money in GW1. I love being able to see my profits come in with minimal effort. Don’t get me wrong, it wasn’t easy creating my tool, but the money I make from it now IS easy and I will continue to make money….even if I have 2,000g…..or 5,000g…..or 100,000g.

Farming for money is NOT something I want to do in GW2.

It’s that way now because ArenaNet chose it to be that way.

Whether or not they said something early on doesn’t change the way it is now.

Honestly, dyes are one of those things that many people want. ArenaNet knows this and that’s why they sell dye packs in the Gem Store. They’ve also applied a generous amount of RNG to Unidentified Dyes, so getting a highly desirable one is less likely.

With the high RNG and making dyes Soul Bound, that will end up yielding more money for ArenaNet from Gem Store sales than if they made them Account Bound.

ArenaNet is in this to make money. It’s a sad, but true, fact. Given that dyes are considered a “vanity item” and give no edge to a player, they can sell them in the Gem Store without going against their “you don’t have to pay to win” philosophy.

Snoring Sleepwalker.9073:

- Is there any way to get google docs to separate the digits into gold/silver/copper ?
Having the silver digits in a different color to the rest would be sufficient.

This equation might get you started. I got bored the other day and decided to see if I could get my spreadsheet to take one number and break it down into its parts.

=if(Q14=“—”,“—”,if(len(Q14)>4,mid(Q14,1,len(Q14)-4)&"g “&mid(Q14,len(Q14)-3,2)&”s “&right(Q14,2)&”c",if(len(Q14)>2,mid(Q14,1,len(Q14)-2)&"s “&right(Q14,2)&”c",Q14&“c”)))

Where:
-Q14 is the cell to the left of the cell I’m working in
-Values of "--" are just checks to see if one of my OTHER checks replaced the data

Note: You may have to change the format of the cell as well to “rounded with no decimal places”. Otherwise….you might get some funky numbers, lol. :-)

I hope this helps.

Belexes.4923:

edit – btw, this is not meant to be argumentative towards you @Charismatic. I appreciate your viewpoints!

I didn’t take it as argumentative. :-)

Speculating on why people speculate is difficult to do though….because we’re not them.

I’ve seen some VERY profitable speculating happening on the TP. While I don’t actively participate in driving the prices of items up or down…..I have profited from risks of others.

Well….it looks to me like on the 18th of January, someone decided to take a risk and buy up approximately 10,000 of these up to a certain price point, effectively raising the price of the item to where it is now.

Someone is doing EXACTLY what I described above (with the Chocolate example). Now the question is…..

Can this player effectively KEEP the price at this level?

Maybe they did some early speculation in regards to the Jan 28th update. Maybe they’re thinking new recipes will be introduced that will require Ancient Bones. Maybe they wanted to push this price up so that after the update, the price would skyrocket and they could make a boatload of money on their speculation.

Who knows? I guess we can find out the answer to some of those questions after the update. Either way…..this/these player(s) took a risk.

Belexes.4923:

This item is still trading in the mid 2.40 silver range so it is no where near any point where this buyer can think of selling it.

Just because you don’t see a way to sell it and make money, that doesn’t mean someone else doesn’t.

Maybe someone bought up a whole bunch of stock up to a certain price point and will unload them slowly making a BUNCH of money on the items they bought for a low price….and losing a little bit of money on the items they bought for a higher price.

Who knows what that person is doing? There are a LOT of people taking some pretty big risks on the Trading Post right now. Take a look at the price of Bars of Chocolate over the last couple of months. Someone has effectively risen the price from around 30c each to over 1s each. That’s a HUGE risk on a highly traded commodity, but you know what…..they wouldn’t have done it if they didn’t think they could make money.

The only true way to get rid of market manipulation is to not have a market to begin with.

Make it to where you can only sell items to vendors and not offer any way to trade between players. The price is set by ArenaNet and can only change if they want it to.

This won’t work though. Do you know why? It won’t work because everyone will have the exact same access to everything that everyone else has. So…if you feel something is overpriced now, at least the players are setting the price and not ArenaNet. If ArenaNet was in complete control of all item pricing in the game, there would be a complete outrage. As it is now, items that people feel are valuable….are. They cost a LOT of money to get….as they should.

If you think the players aren’t setting the price, ask yourself a few questions. Do you buy things off of the Trading Post? Do you sell things on the Trading Post? Is the Trading Post the ONLY way to get the item you desire?

If you answered “yes” to the first question, then you are helping to set the price.
If you answered “yes” to the second question, then you are helping to set the price.
If you answered “no” to the first two questions, then you must be getting the items you want from somewhere else, so the answer to the third question is “yes”.

I’m actually getting kind of tired of the complaints about “market manipulation”. All it shows me is that it’s a part of the game that “you” don’t want to play. That’s fine, but don’t hate on the people that do. You have made your choice….others have made theirs. It sounds more and more like people aren’t complaining about the market….but that they aren’t willing to do the work to get an item, so they’re trying to tell other players how they should, or shouldn’t, play the same game they do.

This is called entitlement. Entitlement in MMO’s, and all games in general….even in life, is rampant. Be a part of the solution instead of being part of the problem.

Or perhaps someone knows the real value of the item and feels that even at the price listed, they’re still going to make a big enough profit.

By closing the gap and putting in a large buy order, which costs a great deal of money to do, it’s less likely that someone will overcut them.

They will get their items, make a profit, then move on.

I do this ALL the time….especially when I see and item I can make 100%+ profit margin on, but if I were to put in a buy order of 4,000 at 1c over the current….I might get 10 of said item.

If I put a 4,000 piece buy order in at 40c over the current buy order….and can still make a 50% profit….I’ll take that all day long.

It’s a matter of weighing the amount of money you’ll make by the time it takes to make said money.

If it takes me 2 days or more to fill a buy order at 100% profit margin, but only 30 minutes to make 50% profit…..which is the one you think I should choose?

Emunator.5371:

SneakyErvin.3056:

28th PST is 28th PST, thats just how the world turns… litteraly.

Since when is 28th a time that can have PST added ??
You managed to confuse me.

What he means by that is that between the hours of 12:00am PST, Jan 28th, 2013 and 11:59pm PST, Jan 28th, 2013, the patch will be released…..it was simplified to Jan 28th PST in the hopes that people would understand the times that make up the date of Jan 28th, 2013.

Obviously, not everyone understands how times / dates are configured so more explanation was necessary.

If the patch comes out on the 28th….then it comes out on the 28th.

ArenaNet is on the West Coast in Washinton, so there’s 24 hours in which they can release the patch on the 28th and still have it be released on the 28th.

If they don’t release the patch until 12:01am on the 29th…..THEN you MAY have something to discuss. Until then…it’s still the 28th where they are.

You say not say “you are pampered babies” and “we demand satisfaction”…..but how can someone reading your post NOT think that?

If you’re NOT located in Washington and they decide to release the patch at 11:59pm on the 28th in THEIR time zone….then it’s likely that YOU won’t see the patch on the 28th….but they still released it on the 28th.

Just be patient…..my god!!!

You could always create a dummy guild and have both accounts join it…buy a little influence and get a guild bank….

Then you can freely transfer items using the guild bank…..50 items at a time.

I’m going to try and do a simple math equation that will hopefully answer your question. I’m only going to look at what price you’d have to list an item for that you bought on the Trading Post in order to break even.

Variables:
T = Taxes (Listing Fee [5%] & Item Sold Fee [10%]) = 15% or .15
P = Purchase Price of the Item = 1s = 100c
S = Sell Price to break even = unknown

Equation:
The Sell Price is the amount you have to list it for, minus the Taxes, in order to break even and have it return your original Purchase Price.

S * (.85) = P

Solve for S

S = P / .85
S = 100 / .85
S = 117.647059 = 118

You would need to list your item for 118c (1s18c) in order to break even and receive your initial 100c (1s00c) back. If you list your item for more than 118c and it sells, you will make a profit on that item.

@Astraea
I agree with you. If this new site is using GW2Spidy API data, then charging for the analysis tools….that’s ridiculous.

I’ve played around with the link to the official Trading Post, I would not use any other 3rd party sites to gather information from because capitalizing on THEIR hard work is a despicable practice. Part of the fun is figuring it out too.

There are quite a few threads regarding similar, if not the same, issues.

It has something to do with a process like….awesomium….or something that needs to be shut down through the task manager before trying to restart the game.

Not to be rude, but please try harder to search the forums before repeating a question. I realize their search functionality isn’t the greatest and it’s difficult to find what you’re looking for, but a little bit more work on your part will help to alleviate multiple threads covering the same topics.

It would be nice if a moderator could merge all of these topics.

But that’s just the thing….

There are enough people in every gold tier you could think of, from the somewhat “poor” to the “super rich”, that will all end up fighting over the scraps and if the super rich wanted to, they could attempt to dominate the markets of all of the lower tiers.

I really don’t think any profitable market would exist if ALL market information was readily available for everyone to use for free.

I think it would bring the entire economy to a screeching equilibrium though. :-)

I know that I’m not about to try and create a tool like that for others to use without being compensated for it. That would be incredibly stupid of me….unless my goal wasn’t to make money, but instead to attempt to create complete chaos in the market and potentially ruin it for everyone…..which it’s not. I LOVE GW2 and want to see it survive for many years to come.

Khisanth.2948:

But there is an achievement that requires holding on to at least 200 gold!

Just wait a year to do that achievement. By then, inflation should be in full effect and 200g then will be like 2g is now….everyone will have that achievement without any work whatsoever, lol.

Yamagawa.5941:

Triple word score!

Yes, the market in general would benefit from free detailed analysis tools.
Yes, the individuals doing all the work would suffer.

I agree that the individuals doing all the work would suffer, but I don’t believe the market in general would benefit.

If everyone has exactly the same tools that show exactly the same information and these tools are the absolute best available that give complete market analysis across multiple markets to show profitability, we would see the exact same thing as we see when someone gives away a “secret”. Those markets that show profitability would have everyone and their dog trying to invest in them and very quickly become unprofitable. This would lead to no markets being profitable….ever.

Buy and sell prices would always be 1c apart from each other and they would always stay constant. Any attempt at market manipulation would fail immediately.

Would this really be a benefit to anyone?

Most long term investments require historical data to identify trends. I don’t think that GW2 has been out long enough to be able to analyze those trends. Also, it depends on your definition of a long term investment. If you’re thinking of buying something now, holding onto it for a month, or a year, then selling it, I would advise against it. The only commodity that I’ve seen that may be worth investing in long term would be Gems. The price of Gems has been steadily increasing since the games release, but even then….all it takes is ArenaNet adjusting that currency conversion to make your investment completely worthless.

Most of the investments I’ve been seeing made and being talked about are at longest a week. Those investors are looking at the cyclical weekly trends of items, such as crafting materials, buying low when the supply is at its highest, then holding onto them for several days until the supply begins to drop and the demand increases.

I think that most investors are investing more in the short term by either immediately flipping items, or posting large buy orders, then relisting items the following day. It really depends on the investor and the time they want to spend keeping an eye on the Trading Post.

Personally….I place buy orders before I log out, then pick up the items the next day, then do something with them and make sell listings.

After thinking about my idea more and reading the post since I made it, I actually think that ArenaNet would like my idea LESS than the site providing the data for the users….whether they like the idea at all is yet to be determined.

The reason being….

Instead of a single user account (the web sites’) requesting the pricing data, you would have multiple, possibly 100’s or 1000’s, of user accounts requesting the information….and many of them would be requesting the same info. That would exponentially multiply the requests that the Trading Post would see.

@goldi

I like your example of the bots in WoW It makes sense…..and I realize you weren’t trying to compare this to actually botting. To provide detailed analysis tools, as we’re discussing here, for free would be downright silly. It would put everyone on an even playing field. While that sounds good in theory, the reason people play and analyze the market is to gain an unfair advantage. That unfair advantage should be something the players either need to work for and figure out on their own, or pay for because someone that’s done the work should be rewarded for doing so. Capitalism baby!!!

goldi.3129:

And the information that is essential for the automated tools is provided by Anet as a gesture of goodwill. Or was so far. Without the access no automated search with high profit analyzes and therefore no buisness model
If youd create the analyzis without the automatimns than your golden.

Hmmm….this brings up an interesting dilemma.

What if a site was only to provide a way to GET the data and analysis tools to analyze it? What I mean by this is that the site doesn’t actually collect all the data using it’s authorized account, but the user would have to request the data they want using their own account. The website just offers an easy way to do this and collects it on a per user basis, then also offers the analysis tools to the user. That way, each user would be responsible for the number of requests that are made…not the service provider.

It would be like eTrade offering up their feeds from the stock markets to each user individually based on the markets / stocks they want to analyze, then once the data the user requested is collected, they can use the analysis tools that are also offered by eTrade to analyze the data.

The site would only be offering tools….no actual data…just a means to acquire it.

Grey.7319:

That’s my worry. I love the work that’s gone into spidy, and the openness of its API has lead to some really interesting options for market enthusiasts. I would hate to see ANet tighten up the web access to the TP, thus killing spidy, because of sites trying to profit directly from that information.

This may be nit-picky, but I feel it’s an important point to make….

I don’t feel they are directly profiting from that information. They are indirectly profiting from it. Their direct profits are, or at least should be, coming from their analysis tools.

Vol.5241:

Yeah, it’s like what I see in baseball.

In baseball, statistics are heavily relied upon and you can generate a ton of analysis based on that data alone. Some people make their own analysis tools that profit of said data.

But the data is owned by the league, and as such anything that profits off of it starts to enter a dangerous area.

That is a perfect comparison to put it into perspective. GW2 is ArenaNet’s intellectual property. They are the ones that determine what people can and can’t do with their property. If they deem it ok, then it’s ok. If they say it’s not, then it’s not. Simple as that.

FYI….I did a little searching around and found the website the OP was talking about…including the subscription fees. I’m not going to advertise it because if this is deemed to be ok by ANet, I don’t want to funnel potential customers to a competitor. I was happy to see that I don’t think they’re doing exactly what I want to do though. It looks like a site that may be an incremental step above GW2Spidy, but maybe not enough to warrant a subscription fee.

Healix.5819:

If what they’re selling is basically just information, then they’re free to do so, in the same way that players sell their own guides (ie, leveling, gold making guides).

That’s just the thing. We don’t KNOW if it’s legal. We do know that YouTube sites that are monetized and post GW2 videos have had those videos taken down. I’m sure there are others doing similar things as you suggested like selling guides. That doesn’t mean what they’re doing is strictly legal. It may just be that it’s difficult for ArenaNet to find those sites to shut them down. YouTube is popular, so it’s easy to search for GW2 videos there. A site like what is being discussed here, I feel, will become EXTREMELY popular as well, but may be against the EULA…..even though what subscribers are paying for isn’t the data, it’s the work behind the analysis. ArenaNet may still have a problem because this 3rd party site is profiting from GW2.

Hopefully we’ll get a confirmation.

Vol.5241:

Grey.7319:

I don’t doubt the usefulness of the tool, indeed I’ve built something similar (though on a much smaller scale) for my own personal use, using Spidy’s API.

What I’m worried about is the legality of it, and whether ANet object to it. It’s an interesting and fine line to walk.

One thing I really would hate to see, is gw2spidy being punished in some way, simply because it’s providing the data via it’s API.

It’s already mentioned by Smith that gw2 is legit.

I’m sure the story would be different if gw2spidy started hosting advertising on it’s site.

And then this new site is going to charge a sub? That’s over the top.

I would disagree. I feel what they’re trying to get subscribers for is THEIR work, analysis, algorithms and forecasting….not the GW2 Trading Post data itself. They’ll be charging you for using the systems they created, that many people just don’t have the knowledge, patience, or time to figure out for themselves.

I agree it’s a slippery slope, but as long as they aren’t trying to automate the actual trading (buying and selling of goods) from outside the game, I say go for it. As long as they just gather data and not interact in any other way, it’s ok in my book.

I don’t know how ArenaNet will react to something like this. I’d love to see an official response though, because it’ll tell me how quickly I want to work on my project. :-)