I think the best way to do it is to have a slowly returning listing fee. For example you might get back 1% of the listing fee returned upon taking it down, per day. If you want to instantly relist things over and over again on the same day you will take the 15% to the face every time. If 5 days go by and no one has bought your item? Its probably not going to sell.
Those that believe in themselves will keep it there. Those that want the item sold at a reasonable price, will relist it. Maybe after watching for 5 days they will better understand the item and wont undercut for 1c. Maybe they will but it will not be a huge amount of undercuts.
Opinions?
While this idea sounds good on the surface, it would be a complete nightmare to implement. Think about having to track the duration of every single trade for every single player and calculate / recalculate based on a time scale in order to return the proper amount of the listing fee based on the sales price on a “just in case this player decides to cancel their trade” basis.
These fees are guaranteed gold sinks. They’re necessary to the overall health of the economy. Removing part of, or all of, the Listing Fee by returning it if you cancel an listing circumvents this system. We’re paying to use a service. We shouldn’t get refunds in this case because we did use the service….even though the item didn’t sell.
I can understand someone listing an item for too much accidentally….possibly by a factor of 10. In that case, maybe a full refund could be offered, but there would need to be a time limit associated with it…..say…..15 to 30 seconds. The problem with that though is it opens it up for abuse. “Free listing” bidding wars would start happening. At least with the way it is, it costs you something to pull your listing and lower your price.
Another option could be a lower listing fee to change your price…say….3% on a relist. Instead of removing your item, picking it up from the Pick Up tab, then re-selling it…..there could be a “Relist at a different price” option that would allow you to change the price of a current listing, up or down, for a 3% charge based on the new price. There is a possibility for abuse here though too….but maybe not as much. A player could initially list an item at a very low price to dodge most of the 5% listing fee, then relist at a much higher price at 3%. The only thing that would stop this would be if the current highest buy order was close to the current lowest sell listing, because currently, if you place an item for sale at or below the highest buy order, you will immediately sell the item to them.
Who knows what they could really do, but honestly, I think the listing and selling fees are just fine as they are. As long as you account for them when you’re selling items, you shouldn’t have a problem.
You could have a verification system which requires a mail and response.
How would this work? Would it also be a service the 3rd party would provide? Is it just something that shows both players acknowledge the trade? Would it be something that Anet programs in?
I can’t see Anet adding ANY kind of system that allows for circumnavigation of the Trading Post….especially when the Trading Post is secure already. Also, the TP is a MAJOR gold sink that is sorely needed in this game. I see many players complaining about inflation and gold sinks are the primary way to combat it (but this is a topic for a different thread).
The bottom line is that any trading outside of the Trading Post will have a negative effect on the game as a whole….even if it looks good in the short run for the players by saving them money on fees, it will be bad for the players in the long run by making everything more expensive. Those Trading Post fees are a necessary evil to combat inflation in the game….along with repair costs, travel fees, etc. The game actually needs MORE of them….not ways to work around the already existing ones.
I would like to see the state of a Legendary weapon change to Account Bound as well.
But one addition I’d like to make is that it never becomes Soul Bound on equip. That way, you can work hard toward crafting your Legendary, then use it on any lvl 80 character that can use that weapon type.
You’d only need to craft 1 of each Legendary weapon that way too….and to have a whole arsenal of Legendaries is something many high-end players would strive to do.
The formula you’re asking for requires knowing the drop rate percentages of ALL the possible items you can get by salvaging the item. Basically….you need the loot table, which isn’t available….unless you do the research yourself.
As for the equation, you need to calculate the value of the item and compare it to the current sell price for that item.
Calculating the Value of a Salvaged Item:
Where:
Vs = Value of the item in question
Vr(1 to n) = Values of the resultant items (assume Current Sell Price of result item)
Vc = Current Sell Price of the item in question
Sc = Cost per salvage
Sp = Number of salvages performed on the item in question
So:
Vs = (Sum(Vr(1 to n)) – (Sc * Sp)) / Sp
Keep in mind that each different type of salvage kit creates a different drop rate % and each has a different cost per salvage. Also, in order to get accurate data, you will need to perform 1000’s of salvages on the EXACT SAME item….not similar items.
Once you’ve calculated the salvage value of the item, it’s time to compare it to the Current Sell Price of that item. So…..
if ( Vc > Vs , “Sell me on the TP”, if ( Vc = Vs, “Do whatcha want”, “Salvage ME!!!!” ) )
Btw…..don’t forget to account for the Trading Post fees (15%)!!!!
(edited by Charismatic Harm.9683)
It’s not an exploit, but requires trust in a third party.
The two parties conducting the trade probably barely trust each other given the number of scams going on in the game, so to bring yet another person into the trade and blindly place both parties trust into this third person….I know I wouldn’t do it.
What’s to stop this third party from building up a good reputation with small trades, then when someone decides to use them for….let’s say….a big transfer, like Dusk…..he screws BOTH players. This third party then ends up with Dusk AND the 600 or so gold from the trade. Anet won’t do anything about it either because the ONLY approved method of trade is through the Black Lion Trading Company.
I would like a slight clarification about bag and bank expansions .. I’m guessing that bag expansions are per character are bank slots or are they account?
example; I am a recently joined player and have 4 characters in development, do I have to buy 3 bag and 7 bank to max storage or 3×4 bag and 7×4 bank?
Bag slots are per character….you can have up to 8 total
Bank tabs are per account….you can have up to 8 total
So….you can have a maximum of 8 Bank Tabs and a maximum of 8 * # of characters Bag Slots.
I feel that this idea is silly….especially since we got 5 character slots with the game.
Make 3 alts and divide the other 6 crafting disciplines between them. Instead of paying 40s to switch to a different crafting discipline, go to the character selection screen and switch characters.
I laid mine out this way:
Elementalist: Tailor & Artificer
Guardian: Armorsmith & Weaponsmith
Ranger: Leatherworking & Huntsman
Mesmer: Jeweler & Chef
For the most part, the 2 crafting disciplines chosen for a character fit them well as far as the armor they wear and the weapon(s) they use. As for Jeweler and Chef, those two are disciplines that ALL character professions can use, so putting them on the same character also makes sense.
Do what you want, but to me, you shouldn’t be paying the 40s to switch disciplines anyway. Park your alts by the crafting station and when you log in, you don’t even have to move…unless of course you want to play them and not just use them for crafting.
Please don’t discuss here about whether this app is allowed or not. Keep the thread clean and for informal feedback only.
Thank you.
You’re trying to tell people what to post and what not to post on a forum? Good luck, lol.
Are you sure it doesn’t have something to do with you running the Mac Beta client?
Guys with their legendaries:
Take it slow, enjoy the game. Let it happen naturally.Translation: “I don’t want you to progress. If you do I won’t be a special little snowflake forever!!1!!”
There may be some with Legendaries that have that opinion and don’t want you to progress to make theirs more “valuable”, but I, for one, don’t have a Legendary, yet still share the same opinion.
It has been said by multiple devs at ArenaNet that the quest for a Legendary is meant to be a long-term goal. This game has only been out 6 months. Just because some have burned through the content in a month and are now complaining they don’t have a Legendary to show for it, that does not change the fact that the intention of a acquiring a Legendary has not changed based on a few peoples play style.
Please don’t generalize and misrepresent other peoples opinion. Personally, I couldn’t care less if you progress or get your Legendary. Your goals are your own. Mine are my own.
Here is my personal opinion and my goals regarding a Legendary so that you aren’t confused:
I feel the acquisition of a Legendary and all of its components, including precursors, are fine as they are. I’ve done the math. I’ve done my research. There are 4 pieces required to make a Legendary: 3 gifts and 1 precursor. The prices of those 4 items are all in line with each other. Some precursors are priced a little higher than others, but those are the ones that the player base finds to be in greater demand. That sounds about right to me.
As for MY quest to acquire a Legendary, I play the game the way I want to play it. I spend a little time analyzing the Trading Post to make money because I know that if I’m going to play GW2 for years to come, creating a tool that helps me do that now will help me do that for the rest of my time in GW2. I never farm. I repeat….I NEVER farm. I farmed SO much in GW1 that I vowed I wouldn’t do it in GW2. So, in order to get the things I want for my Legendary, all the items that I pick up, I salvage. That’s going to get me to my stacks upon stacks upon stacks of T6 mats that I need for my gifts. I’m going to need to play some WvW to get my 500 badges…because I have 3 right now, lol. I just started running dungeons because until 2 days ago, playing a dungeon was like watching a slideshow. So….I’ve got 60+ Ascalonian Tears, 60+ Shards of Zaitan and 60+ of something else. Alright….dungeon tokens are starting to build up. I complete my Daily every day because I get karma, mats and money for doing so….all of which contribute to my acquisition of a Legendary.
I’m not telling you that you need to play my way. I’m not saying that my way is right. What I am saying is that if your goal is a Legendary, you may want to rethink the way you play the game. If you’re not having fun, then what’s the point?
So….in conclusion….
Take it slow, enjoy the game. Let it happen naturally.
I think this would be OK if it were the name of the skin only. Anything beyond that would breed elitism and increase discrimination.
Anet went in, and took an “item” that pretty much anyone and everyone needs at least one more of, and arbitrarily lowered its price by 20%. If that wasn’t designed to inflate the player controlled gold to gem conversion rate what is?
I get that players are ultimately responsible for the rise, but it was in response to a move made by Anet. Move and counter move.
I bolded a section of your post that I disagree with. While it’s nice to have more storage, we don’t need it. Also, it’s actually more cost effective to buy a character slot and put 8 slot bags on it than it is to buy either a bank tab or a bag slot.
That move wasn’t necessarily designed to inflate the gold to gem conversion either….but that WAS the result. It was designed for them to offer something to players for gems in the hopes that players would spend real money to buy them. Anet doesn’t make a DIME when players convert gold to gems….only when they buy gems with real money.
mesket, your complaint seems to be that legendaries are out of reach. You must have missed the podcast where they first revealed legendaries, because in it, they stated that they expected only 5% of thee playerbase to own a legendary. so it is perfectly reasonable to say that they should be rare, because that is what ANET expected them to be.
There’s no arguing with him. Do what I did and just agree with him….because he’s right….just ask him.
yeah … well … expansion slot before the 20% sale was 400 gems for 5g60. now it’s 320 gems for 7g 50. A 20% sale leading to a 50% price increase for the same goods. I call bullkitten!
You’re calling “bullkitten” because you’re saying that the price of a moving target is….well….moving?
You realize that the cost of gems in real money has not changed one single bit, so the 20% off “sale” they’ve got going on is 20% off of a stationary target….the real money to gems market…..NOT the moving target of gold to gems.
The 50% price increase you’re quoting is due to the fact that a TON of players just went in and converted their gold to gems instead of buying gems with real money. You can’t blame Anet for that. They would much rather you buy gems with real money anyway. Blame the players.
Driven by players…..influenced by Anet<—-moto
The only influence Anet has in the gem market (besides their initial algorithm to calculate conversion rates) is to put items in the gem store for players to buy with gems.
It just so happens that a LOT of people want the things that were just put “on sale” in the gem store. It’s a funny thing how a 20% off “sale” on more storage gets people flocking to the gem store to convert their in-game gold to gems…..then complain about the conversion rate.
No one HAS to buy the things in the gem store. No one HAS to convert their gold to gems to do so. Anet just said….“Hey…here ya go. Buy it if you want. It’s on sale.”
Anet makes money selling gems for real money. Besides the initial purchase of the game, that’s really their only way to do so. Putting highly sought after account / character upgrades on sale in the gem store is sure to boost their sales numbers. Good for them. I love this game. I want to see them succeed….and to do so, they need to make money.
I guess the only thing left to do is to jump the fence and tell you how right you are.
You’re right. I take back everything I’ve ever said and nullify all of my previous statements. Your logic is infallible.
Dear ArenaNet,
Please add more ways to get precursors as I want to get a Legendary, but don’t want to pay another player to get one and the RNG to get one is FAR too high. An “easy button” would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Charismatic Harm.9683
Holy kitten!
I was trying to buy 320 Gems with gold, but I couldn’t even keep up with the market, one second it’s 6 Gold 73 Silver for 320, and 5 seconds later it’s already gone up to 7 gold 21 silver.
This kind of kitten is exactly the final nail in the coffin for me when it comes to the GW2’s market and inflation.
You know that you can always use real money to purchase gems and that conversion never changes. The gold to gem conversion is solely in place to offer some convenience so that you don’t HAVE to buy gems with real money.
To blame the market or inflation for the rise in gold to gem conversion rate is placing the blame in the wrong place, especially when that isn’t your only choice for getting gems.
(this is why the other guy failed to see the game as a whole, some people forget we are under heavy DR when we already have extremely low drop rates, killer mechanic for people who likes to get things their own).
You keep saying that I fail to see the game as a whole, when if you’re talking about DR, then I think it’s you that fails to see the game as a whole.
The only way DR can impact you is if you continually farm the same thing over and over again. You’re CHOOSING to do that and being hamstrung by the DR. If you only did an event once, or ran a dungeon path once, you would have literally 100’s of different things you could do every single day without ever being impacted by DR at all. Also, to not use the Trading Post, you’re limiting you’re options and not using the WHOLE game to your benefit.
Can you understand now?
I do understand your point, but the point you’re trying to make is about a luxury item. If this conversation had to deal with how “out of reach” Exotic armor or an Exotic weapon was, then I would totally be on your side. The problem is, that’s NOT what we’re talking about. I hope you don’t try to make the argument that we are talking about an Exotic weapon because a precursor is an Exotic. While that argument is true, it too isn’t the point. A precursor is a single, specific, Exotic weapon used in crafting a single, specific, Legendary weapon.
ArenaNet has heard all of the complaints about acquiring a precursor weapon and they ARE doing something about it, but it’s not happening right this very second. The complaints are about not being able to get your precursor NOW!!!!!
If you treat a Legendary, and by extension, it’s precursor, as a long-term goal, I have a feeling you may find yourself much happier with the game. If you don’t want to treat it like a long-term goal and you want it right now, then you’re left with using one of the 3 ways of acquiring it: Random world drop, Mystic Forge, or buying it off the TP.
If your argument is that the price of a given precursor is too high on the Trading Post, I would disagree with you.
Check out this website: http://gw2legendary.com/
Each Legendary requires 3 gifts and 1 precursor to make. Now, compare the costs required to craft a given gift vs. the cost of its precursor. If you don’t assume that Skill Points, Karma and dungeon tokens are free….the costs of each of the 4 parts are pretty well in line with each other. The cost of a precursor for a more highly sought after and desired Legendary is higher….which it should be because THAT item is more in demand.
What that tells me is that the methods of acquiring a precursor and / or its cost to buy it from the Trading Post are in line with a luxury item with the title of Legendary.
If Anet gives us another way to acquire precursors, all that will do is make these luxury items more attainable by more people, thereby making them less “legendary”.
(edited by Charismatic Harm.9683)
A simple damage / health modifier would not be more challenging and would waste development time. Dungeons would need new mechanics.
This is correct, and I’d also like to add that without the addition of a “In Hard Mode, you cannot use item boosters, including foods”…..anything that would add a boost to armor, health, dmg, etc. could be used to counteract the Hard Mode state.
I don’t understand what you’re saying. They’re a part of acquiring end-game content because ANet said they’re a part of acquiring end-game content. If it had been anything else, then that would have been a part of acquiring end-game content, and we’d be right where we started. The point is that anything that is used to create prestige cosmetic items like legendaries will always be, itself, coveted exactly because it is used for those items.
It’s not poor design at all; having an expensive and rare item use components which are themselves expensive and rare is totally acceptable, and is part of what gives legendaries their value and prestige at all.
No offense, but you should probably stop beating your head against this wall as I have. No matter how well you explain it, they still won’t get it because they’re blinded by their own “wants”. Rarely have I seen an argument about the Trading Post price of a Legendary or precursor that can’t be boiled down to….
“Poor me. Poor me. I want a Legendary, but it costs too much.”
Players rarely think beyond themselves. Players rarely think about the game as a whole. Players rarely think about the true difference between casuals and hard core gamers.
I’m sure someone will comment that I’m “just a fanboi” or that “of course you don’t care about the price you already have one / manipulate the TP / bought it with real money / scammed someone / used gold sellers / etc.”.
Many of the complaints I see are just players trying to blame someone else using wild speculation and statements they claim are “fact” so that they can get their shiny faster. Very rarely do I come across a well reasoned argument that makes me sit up and take notice.
There are currently 3 ways to get a precursor (random world drop, Mystic Forge and Trading Post) with another one slated later (scavenger hunt). If you don’t currently like one of the ways to get a precursor that’s in the game now, then you should wait until the scavenger hunt is released and determine if THAT way suits you better. Who knows how long that will be though.
Yes, so I should sit on everything I have to make 2 legendaries because I’m not lucky. That makes a boatload of sense. The only people that defend this current system already have them via luck or exploits. End of story.
You assume that just because I defend the current system that I have a Legendary? Well….you would be wrong. I do NOT have a Legendary and am currently working on mine, albeit slowly. I’m working on it slowly because I actually took what the developers said to heart and deem it as a long-term goal.
I’m sorry if my suggestion for you to wait for the scavenger hunt offended your delicate sensibility, but honestly, it seems like that may be the best option for you. You are obviously upset with the current way to gather up your shinies. It’s too bad, because there are so many other things in this game that make it worth playing outside of having a Legendary.
Please don’t assume that you know me, or my motivations, because more often than not, you’d be wrong.
(edited by Charismatic Harm.9683)
Gold will indeed stop dropping in value eventually.
The TP tax as a percentage sees to it. The more things cost, the more money disappears per sale due to the 15% cut the TP takes. Meanwhile, gold entering the game stays about the same. Still get the same coin from completing events, vending trash, completing dungeons and all that. Eventually, the TP tax overtakes the money entering the game and total money in circulation must drop until equilibrium is restored. I don’t think it’s that far off from doing so already.
Precursor prices are also capped by how much it costs to make rares/exotics to throw in the MF. If precursors cost 2000g and t5 mats cost today’s prices, there’d be little reason to not continuously craft rares and make precursors to sell for profit. If t5 mat prices went up accordingly to accomodate precursors costing 2000g (Lets say, to 7s) then we’re talking more expensive transactions as people sell those drops to people wanting to use them for crafting rares, yanking more money out of the economy than now (Over 1s disappearing from the game per t5 mat someone buys off the TP). Not sustainable, people use t5 mats for other things and would buy less of them and farm more, lowering price. Much like how if Tomatoes IRL started costing $5 each, it’d be a lot more attractive for people to start growing tomatoes in the garden instead of buying them at the grocery store.
Not to mention several hundred g leaving the game via the 15% tax every time one precursor sold.
It’s amazing to me that no matter how many times arguments like this are made, players STILL don’t understand. It’s probably less that they don’t understand and more they feel entitled to something they haven’t worked long enough to achieve.
Players rarely look at the game (economy in this case) as a whole….only how it affects them. They want to play a certain way and their way doesn’t allow for them to have all the pretty shinies that other players have. So, rather than changing the way they play, they complain at how unjust the game is. Also…most of the complaints I read are in regards to high end, luxury items that provide no more usefulness to the character wielding / wearing it.
If people were complaining that it was too difficult to outfit their character in Exotics, then maybe there would be something to discuss and debate, but as it is now, I don’t see those complaints.
I think it’s more about the disparity between using the tp vs not using the tp. Basically to gain any “high end” item use of the tp is must.
Of course not. My first legendary was from playing the TP. My second was from luck. My third was through hard grind. But for all three, I did all my hard work in the game to get all my items, whether that accounted for only 20% or 80% of the legendary cost.
Blaming it all on TP manipulation is just the easy way out to explain things.
No where did I mention manipulation in that post. But that’s okay…keep trying I’ll slip up sooner or later.
I don’t think he was suggesting that you were manipulating. I think he was stating that that’s the argument that most of the complainers use to explain their “point”.
Gold will indeed stop dropping in value eventually.
The TP tax as a percentage sees to it. The more things cost, the more money disappears per sale due to the 15% cut the TP takes. Meanwhile, gold entering the game stays about the same. Still get the same coin from completing events, vending trash, completing dungeons and all that. Eventually, the TP tax overtakes the money entering the game and total money in circulation must drop until equilibrium is restored. I don’t think it’s that far off from doing so already.
Precursor prices are also capped by how much it costs to make rares/exotics to throw in the MF. If precursors cost 2000g and t5 mats cost today’s prices, there’d be little reason to not continuously craft rares and make precursors to sell for profit. If t5 mat prices went up accordingly to accomodate precursors costing 2000g (Lets say, to 7s) then we’re talking more expensive transactions as people sell those drops to people wanting to use them for crafting rares, yanking more money out of the economy than now (Over 1s disappearing from the game per t5 mat someone buys off the TP). Not sustainable, people use t5 mats for other things and would buy less of them and farm more, lowering price. Much like how if Tomatoes IRL started costing $5 each, it’d be a lot more attractive for people to start growing tomatoes in the garden instead of buying them at the grocery store.
Not to mention several hundred g leaving the game via the 15% tax every time one precursor sold.
It’s amazing to me that no matter how many times arguments like this are made, players STILL don’t understand. It’s probably less that they don’t understand and more they feel entitled to something they haven’t worked long enough to achieve.
Players rarely look at the game (economy in this case) as a whole….only how it affects them. They want to play a certain way and their way doesn’t allow for them to have all the pretty shinies that other players have. So, rather than changing the way they play, they complain at how unjust the game is. Also…most of the complaints I read are in regards to high end, luxury items that provide no more usefulness to the character wielding / wearing it.
If people were complaining that it was too difficult to outfit their character in Exotics, then maybe there would be something to discuss and debate, but as it is now, I don’t see those complaints.
How come no one is complaining about the Venom precursor?
Stop using this stupid example in every thread. If 95% of the game was underwater, then you’d have a point. As it is now, you are just trolling to troll like you do in almost every thread.
Everyone gets it. You got lucky with your stuff. We know, you post it everywhere. Personally, I’m going with the godskull exploit but you can deny it all you want. Precursors are not fine, they are not even close to fine, and they need changed. Feel free to keep trolling every single thread about them though if that’s what makes you feel better about yourself.
WOW!!!! Really?
The point Vol is actually trying to make (I think) is that not all precursors and Legendaries are created equally in terms of demand, and therefore, price on the Trading Post.
I think precursor prices are justified, as do many others. Do I have a precursor, or a Legendary? No, I don’t. I haven’t exploited anything to make money either. To accuse someone of doing so without evidence shows how shortsighted and self-centered you are.
I really feel that players need to stop thinking so much about themselves and start thinking about what Legendaries really are, as well as the long term health of the game as a whole. They’re a luxury. A luxury that not everyone will have within 6 months of the game being released. It’s been said many times that Legendaries are meant to be long term goals. Just because other people have them already, that doesn’t mean that EVERYONE should have them already. Everyone should be able to get them eventually….which they can.
The prices of certain precursors will continue to rise due to their higher demand from the player base that wants them. That does NOT mean they will continue to rise indefinitely. For those wanting to get a Legendary, most will weigh the costs of purchasing their precursor from the Trading Post vs. throwing rares and exotics into the Mystic Toilet. One will always be statistically cheaper to do than the other.
There are currently 3 ways to get a precursor (random world drop, Mystic Forge and Trading Post) with another one slated later (scavenger hunt). If you don’t currently like one of the ways to get a precursor that’s in the game now, then you should wait until the scavenger hunt is released and determine if THAT way suits you better. Who knows how long that will be though.
It just irritates me that people keep on complaining over and over again. Perhaps a way to end the complaints would be for Anet to stealth nerf all Precursors, and make them Account Bound? But only after they implement the “scavenger hunt” idea.
Players are still going to complain about precursors. No matter what ArenaNet does, it will irritate players and they will complain.
If they made precursors Account Bound after / at the same time as the scavenger hunt, people will complain that Anet took away one of the ways to get a precursor….even though they didn’t like the price of it on the Trading Post anyway.
I’m looking forward to a scavenger hunt for precursors and I hope it’s really time consuming. I hope it spans multiple areas in the game, covering tons of Dynamic Events, dungeons, Champions, etc. I hope that we have to go to far reaches of the world to find hidden passages, underwater relics and/or to the tops of mountains.
I LOVED the Black Moa Chic scavenger hunt in GW1 and think something along those lines, but about 10 times longer, would be amazing.
You can buy and sell the end-game cosmetics of GW1, too, and yet no one complained about that. It’s curious that buying and selling the end-game cosmetics of GW2 has people in such a frenzy.
That said, it is not zero-effort to buy a legendary, either with real money via gems converted to gold or via in-game money earned as gold by any means. 1200+ gold is no small sum, and in gems that would cost $1056 US to buy outright. If someone is willing to pay an entire paycheck to ANet in order to have the gems to convert to gold to buy their legendary, then more power to them. That is a lot of real life work converted into gold, which is ultimately no less life investment than farming it all in-game. There is no zero-effort here; it’s a ton of effort no matter how you slice the cake.
I think it is very good that legendaries are allowed to be sold. It helps the economy by removing gold from the market on huge sales that the TP taxes. I think the problem people really have with buying and selling legendaries is that they have some premeditated opinion on what a legendary item should be, and the realization that ANet’s definition of a legendary item doesn’t match that person’s definition bothers them. I think if you come to terms with what a legendary is, rather than what you think it ought to be, you’ll find it all makes sense within the framework of the game. (Note: This isn’t advocating complacency, rather that you shouldn’t be trying to imprint your personal vision of the game onto ANet)
Hopefully that has helped.
Well said!!! It’s too bad that those complaining will never listen to reasoned arguments.
The reason why (imo) is because it is one of them that inflates by more than most that are grinding/playing game content can make in an equivalent amount of time. Ergo working towards it via those means seems like it’ll never reach an end.
Ofc that’s just my opinion.
In terms of manipulating…..I wouldn’t underestimate the nature of people. I’m sure there are some out there who’s just reward is watching ppl squirm on here ranting about the prices.
I would love to hear your definition of the term “inflates”.
Thank you.
I don’t think they are suggesting “inflation”….just a rise in price that occurs more rapidly than most people are able to acquire that much gold.
The rise in precursor prices isn’t due to inflation, it’s due to the high demand and low supply of the item. The price of precursors will rise to a point where the supply and demand curves meet. Since we do not have enough data to calculate and plot the real supply and demand curves for each precursor, we will probably see the price of some continue to rise while the price of others become more stable. Not all precursors are created equally in terms of demand. Therefore, higher demanded precursors will likely have higher prices….hence the situation we currently have with Dusk.
This would be a disaster, because then people would actually spend real money to get the keys, and chances are still not have a precursor. Every one of them would then come to this forum and make posts like “Really disappointed in Anet’s BLC scam QQQQQQQQ” as they did for Halloween.
I agree with you about the QQ’ing. It’s funny to see how players willingly do things that have knowingly bad returns….100’s or 1000’s of times…..then complain about it.
I, for one, think ArenaNet SHOULD add them as a drop from the BLC. They’ll make a TON of money and will have fulfilled their “promise” to the community of adding another method of acquiring a precursor.
If people want to separate themselves from their hard earned money (either $’s or in-game currency) to get a precursor, ArenaNet should hold out a giant bag to collect it all.
So how come no one loves to talk about the price of precursors like Storm or Venom?
Oh right, because those precursors are cheap because the market does not want them.
Yet the market loves and wants Dusk, which is justly reflected in it’s price.
All the people complaining about the expensive precursor prices are simply folks who don’t want to pay market price when there are people out there willing to do so. 30 in the last 72 hours, in fact.
^^^ THIS……exactly ^^^
It’s amazing to see all of these threads that continue to pop up….all complaining about the same thing. Throwing out wild speculation that the ONLY reasonable conclusion to the price of the precursor they want is either gold sellers or market manipulators.
Could it happen to be that the reason the price is higher on this specific precursor is because it is in higher demand than the rest? No…..it couldn’t be. That would make sense and forums are NOT the place for making sense.
I hope that someday, people will remove their blinders and set aside their self-centered attitude to stop, think, and evaluate things from the perspective of the whole, rather than the individual.
I want a Legendary weapon too, but I don’t need it right now. I’m planning to play the game, save up, work toward all the different pieces I need, and hope I get my precursor drop in the process. If I don’t get my drop, I’ll utilize one of the methods in place at the time to get one…..even if that means buying it off the Trading Post.
There’s a part of me that looks at just how much it costs in Karma, gold, and time to craft a Legendary and thinks……“You know, I could outfit all 8 of my characters with 2 full sets of Exotic gear and still have money left over. Do I really need that shiny?” The answer for now is yes & no. I don’t need it, but I want it…..so I’ll continue working toward it….for now.
If over 30 Dusks have been sold recently, that can mean the current price for them is reasonable.
I would agree completely.
I hope these threads come to an end….but sadly, they won’t.
IF….and that’s a pretty big if….Laurels were able to be used to acquire a precursor, the number would really be determined by ArenaNet’s plan to retroactively reward Laurels for current Achievement points (which they have stated there’s a plan to do that in a future update).
Let’s look at it two ways.
1.) No additional Laurels given for current Achievement points
In this case, I feel similar to Havana where it should be approximately a year’s worth of Dailies / Monthlies. A nice round number of 500 seems good to me. This would allow those that do the normal Dailies / Monthlies AND the PvP ones to get them a little faster….but still be about 6 months worth of “work”.
2.) Additional Laurels awarded for current Achievement points.
This would really depend on the conversion rate of Achievement points to Laurels, but let’s assume it’s 1 to 1 (which it probably won’t be).
With this system, I would say a number of around 5,000 would be a good amount. I see many people, in my guild alone, with 4,000+ Achievement points, so if they were to be awarded with 4,000 Laurels, you’d still want them to have to work for it a little bit.
My ideas are just actually to humor the topic of this thread, when in actuality, I don’t believe that precursors should be able to be acquired through the Laurel system at all.
I’m not going for a legendary. I have enough money to buy one right off the TP at this moment, easily. That’s not the point. I have a problem with the design for the people that do want one.
If you’re not going for a Legendary, then why do you even care? This part of the game has zero impact on you, but you’re complaining about it?
That doesn’t even make sense.
Yes, it’s unfair. And that is my entire point.
Also, people that bought a precursor at a cheaper rate before got their legendary for significantly less money than someone just now coming to the game. That is also unfair and not fun.
If it’s so unfair and un-fun, then why are you trying to get a Legendary? Why are you even playing Guild Wars 2?
It sounds like you don’t even like the game….or at least this aspect of it. If you dislike it so much, no one is forcing you to play it…or go for a Legendary.
You continually avoid Esplen’s questions, yet say that other games are more fair. Please provide us with an example, data, or ANYTHING that backs up your statements. I’m sure we’d all like to know.
I hope it’s too hard. It should be another method for acquisition, not a main method. There should not be a main method.
I hope it’s too hard too. Well….maybe not too hard, but have it take a few months to complete.
I’d like to have something to work toward as well.
@Unspecified
I think you’ve finally hit the nail on the head. It’s not the fact that there IS RNG….it’s the way people feel about it.
While yes….I did try to derail the thread earlier with a My Little Pony picture, a reasoned argument such as yours hadn’t existed in quite a while. As Esplen stated, you unintentionally agreed with some of the points we were trying to make to other people.
Your data regarding Bag of Skritt Shinies and Silver Doubloons was spot on as well. You provided and explanation of your view, with supporting data. Again, something others weren’t doing. They were speculating wildly.
I think that’s why ArenaNet mentioned they’re planning to put in a scavenger hunt for precursors. At least with that, people will begin to “feel” that they are progressing toward it.
I have a bad feeling, however, that no matter how they implement the scavenger hunt, people will still complain about it. It’s either going to be too easy or too hard.
So, even adding yet another way to get a precursor, players still won’t be happy.
mm, the last dusk just got taken of the market, something bad is definatly coming..
I hope so. Personally….I can’t wait to see the price of Dusk greater than the price of Twilight. THAT will be a great day.
I didn’t read this thread but I thought i’d at least comment on the very large error in the OP here…
OMG!!! You should!!! There is some comedic GOLD in this thread.
If for nothing else, you’ll find a couple of people that keep repeating the same thing over and over again without any evidence to back up their claims. Also, you’ll find these same people dodging answering specific questions by repeating their claims again.
I’m actually laughing at this point….probably from the pain of beating my head against the wall.
I think I have dain bramage.
I find it amusing that those who are complaining about precursors have yet to answer any of my questions. I will quote them again….and add a few more for giggles.
So getting Mystic Clovers doesn’t put you at the mercy of RNG?
Getting stacks upon stacks upon stacks of T6 materials doesn’t put you at the mercy of RNG?
Is it that the RNG on THOSE items is more acceptable to you?
Could it be that the RNG in place for a highly desired, highly rare, singular component for a Legendary weapon SHOULD have a greater amount of RNG associated with it?
Are you mad because it’s priced out of YOUR reach?
Have you thought about why YOU even want a Legendary Weapon?
Is it so that you can show it off to your buddies?
Is it because it’s better than the current Best in Slot weapon?
What happens when you DO get your Legendary Weapon and no longer have anything to work toward?
Will you leave the game because you’re “done”?
New questions:
Are you going for a Legendary because ArenaNet said that Legendaries will always be Best In Slot and match up with Ascended weapons when they’re released?
Are those Ascended weapons in the game yet?
Do you have time to hope RNG will be in your favor by the time those are released?
I love this “they are not for everyone” / “they should be hard to obtain” stance. It really makes no sense. Players dedicating the most time and mastering every aspect of the game with excepting on the tp should be the ones with them imo(granted in conjunction with all other aspects of the game is not to which I am refering). Yet this is not the case, they are relegated to tp players and grinders. Which one of those is more deserving than the player that plays more thoroughly and why? I simply cannot justify why tp players and grinders are more deserving than a player that masters all of the content the game offers. A tp player can be lousy at playing content yet have one. A grinder maybe very proficient at one avenue yet horrid everywhere else. Or we have the lucky….so that player that rng shines on and gets lucky is more deserving than the ones that are not?
The current system does not reward mastering the game. It only rewards 3 things
Getting lucky, which is a reward in itself.
Or mastering niches, either the tp or lucrative grindThere is no requirement currently for them that is truly difficult. For the players that understand playing the tp, playing it is not hard. Grinding is not hard. Getting lucky is not hard, it’s lucky.
My question is why are legendaries weighed on the merit of tp effectiveness and grinding moreso than mastering the complete game?
While this argument is SO MUCH better than most of the ones posted above, we’re still talking about a luxury item. It’s no better than the current Best in Slot Exotic.
No one needs a Legendary and it has been said many times by those at ArenaNet that it’s meant to be a long term goal.
Solely for the reason of it being a luxury item, not everyone should have one. You haven’t gotten lucky yet and others have. Is that why you’re upset? Is that why the OP is upset? Because RNG and luck have not favored you yet?
If all you did was change your mindset and turn getting your short term goal of acquiring your Legendary into a long term goal….perhaps you’d be a LOT happier.
Then, when luck shines on you later in the game and you get your precursor….you’ll have had fun AND be able to craft your Legendary.
I wish you the best in your quest for a Legendary. I hope to have one someday too.
wall of text
Take the hint, buddy.
You realize that most times when people post a “wall of text”, including quotes, they’re providing a reasoned argument to each point from a previous post.
When you choose not to read it, it shows that you’re closed minded and that only your opinions matter. If you’re not willing to take other peoples opinions into consideration and provide reasoned arguments of your own, then you’re not likely to find many people jumping to your side of the fence.
Perhaps you should “take the hint”.
I love how people skipped my wall of text that retorts what they’ve said after it.
Of course they did because when someone writes anything that contradicts THEIR opinion, they’re wrong.
So….you’re wrong. I’m sorry.
I read your post….but didn’t feel the need to comment on it because we stated a lot of similar ideas between our posts. :-)
I really just want this (and ALL the other threads like it) to be closed at this point.
The people willing to pay the price do not use them to craft Legendaries
The same quantity they bought get re-listed for more Gold instead. I’ve been watching Howl for a while (The Howler). It was 35G not long ago. Then someone bought up the stock. Now it’s 75G+, nearing 80G.
You know this for a FACT?
You have supporting data? You know the usernames of the people that bought the items at a lower price and have now re-listed them at a higher price?
If not, then you’re speculating that someone is doing that.
Please back up your statements with data or quotes from ArenaNet to support your theories. Wild speculation does nothing but make you look the fool.
Everyone can get 99% of the materials required for a Legendary.
Are you seriously telling me Anet are stupid enough to let the exclusiveness of a Legendary all rest on the Precursor? Really? REALLY?!
You still don’t get it. “Everyone” can’t get 99% of the materials required for a Legendary.
Gift of Exploration? Really? EVERYONE can get that?
Gift of Battle? Really? EVERYONE can get 500 Badges of Honor?
If you’re truly going to make broad accusations about the ENTIRE player base, you should really think about what the entire player base is actually capable of doing.
Stop thinking only of yourself and start thinking about the game as a whole.
These arguments you’re making are ridiculous and very short sighted.
As for making the exclusivity of a Legendary rely solely on the shoulders of the Precursor weapon…..maybe that was EXACTLY their intent. It’s actually a great way to do it if you really think about it. It would allow the ENTIRE player base to strive toward something….slowly, as intended….then when players get a precursor…they can either use it, or sell it to make money if it wasn’t the precursor they needed for THEIR Legendary.
(edited by Charismatic Harm.9683)
The Precursor is the only thing when it comes to Legendaries that leaves you truly at the mercy of the RNG.
Really? So getting Mystic Clovers doesn’t put you at the mercy of RNG? Getting stacks upon stacks upon stacks of T6 materials doesn’t put you at the mercy of RNG?
Or is it that the RNG on THOSE items is more acceptable to you? Could it be that the RNG in place for a highly desired, highly rare, singular component for a Legendary weapon SHOULD have a greater amount of RNG associated with it? Are you mad because it’s priced out of YOUR reach? Have you thought about why YOU even want a Legendary Weapon? Is it so that you can show it off to your buddies? Is it because it’s better than the current Best in Slot weapon? Because it’s not.
Legendary weapons are NOT for everyone. They’re just not. Maybe if you weren’t SO focused on a single item in the game, you would be happier. Isn’t there anything else you want, or want to do?
What happens when you DO get your Legendary Weapon and no longer have anything to work toward? Will you leave the game because you’re “done”? If so, perhaps you should leave the game now because getting a Legendary will just end up being a waste of your time.
If Anet implements player housing, that would be an incredible (and necessary) gold sink. It could be a tiered system where the initial tier to just GET a house is small, but if you were to add all the upgrades (merchant, crafting stations, armorsmiths, weaponsmiths, etc.), the total would be huge.
Rich players would dump cash into buying everything they could because they have the money to spend on something useful and poor players would buy just what they need.
The largest gold sinks are the ones that impact the greatest number of players. The WP and repair fees are a GREAT example of this. While these sinks are small, they affect every player on every server in the entire game. Player housing could potentially have the same impact, but it’s not something anyone “needs” as all of those services are available elsewhere. It’s just something people want.
I like the idea of Player Housing.
Many people will complain that they don’t want more gold sinks, but I feel they are necessary to the overall health of the economy in a game. As John Smith stated in another thread, the key is to balance the faucets and the sinks. If those are in balance, inflation will be kept to a minimum.
Except that the Gift of Mastery might serve as a requirment for a second wave of Legendary items that are account bound (such as Legendary Armor).
They’ve learned their lesson I think: laurels are nothing more than duplicate copies of Mystic Coins EXCEPT they are account bound. If they have recognized that some things that were up for sale should have been account bound, don’t expect things that they got right the first time around to suddenly go up for sale.
Very true. I feel they could make new gifts for crafting Legendary Armor….or a new round of Legendary Weapons. That way, they could make these gifts trade-able and lock down the new round(s) of Legendaries.
It’s sad that they made Legendaries trade-able in the first place. While I can make enough money to buy one outright….I don’t feel that I should be able to….nor will I. I will craft my own Legendary, because I feel that’s the way it should be.
This person is only a serial offender because people continue to give him money.
ArenaNet has stated MANY times that the ONLY supported means of trading is through the Black Lion Trading Company.
I do not feel sorry for anyone that gets scammed this way. Even your best friend….someone you’ve known for years….could do the exact same thing and ANet will do NOTHING about it. They won’t do anything because that form of trading is not supported.
Either use the trading post or gather the items yourself. Those are the only two supported methods of obtaining items in Guild Wars 2.
When ArenaNet made a Legendary weapon trade-able, they, by extension, made everything used to craft it trade-able, but in reality, they didn’t.
They made the “whole” trade-able, but not its pieces.
At this point, what difference would it make if ArenaNet made every piece of a Legendary trade-able? None.
They may as well do it at this point.
It was removed to eliminate rez-rushing and implement a level of coordination into an area that was meant to be played as a coordinated team.
DPS’ing until you die, rezzing, then running back in to rinse and repeat is not coordination.
It makes people think a little harder about their builds, tactics and teamwork this way.
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