Guild Wars 2

Devata.6589:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Conski Deshan.2057:

@Chris,

Could we take a look at the other end of the spectrum with guildhalls at some point. I know everyone wants to make sure small guilds get in on the fun and I think we have that in order.
I would like to know how guilds are going to stand out, you have 100 guilds with 100 guild halls how do you stand out? What rare/difficult content stuff could you have? what sort of unlocks would this give? What would you do to ensure there are “prestige” rewards for guildhalls in each area of the game? How would you ensure they remain rare and don’t become a fixture in every guild hall?

If people have a problem with skill being the lockout for the high end stuff how would they gate it instead? Bare in mind that anything that doesn’t act as a Y/N* barrier would eventually be overcome/gained by a large amount of guilds.

*(Pass/fail , you either succeed completely and get the reward or you fail and get nothing, tokens , or partial gain would lead to oversaturation)

Yep let’s focus on this for a while and discuss progression of a Guild Hall.

Chris

Note this also includes Beacon mechanics.

Chris

P.S: I am in content reviews all day so it will be hard for me to catch up until tomorrow morning.

I’m not 100% sure how to see beacon’s. But the whole air-ship idea, instanced or not. If you where to see fly over one of those guild-hall air-ships (animated, not that the guild really did fly over) would that be a type of beacon you talk about?

Yep a Beacon mechanic is a way to show of your guild and its progress.

Chris

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Conski Deshan.2057:

@Chris,

Could we take a look at the other end of the spectrum with guildhalls at some point. I know everyone wants to make sure small guilds get in on the fun and I think we have that in order.
I would like to know how guilds are going to stand out, you have 100 guilds with 100 guild halls how do you stand out? What rare/difficult content stuff could you have? what sort of unlocks would this give? What would you do to ensure there are “prestige” rewards for guildhalls in each area of the game? How would you ensure they remain rare and don’t become a fixture in every guild hall?

If people have a problem with skill being the lockout for the high end stuff how would they gate it instead? Bare in mind that anything that doesn’t act as a Y/N* barrier would eventually be overcome/gained by a large amount of guilds.

*(Pass/fail , you either succeed completely and get the reward or you fail and get nothing, tokens , or partial gain would lead to oversaturation)

Yep let’s focus on this for a while and discuss progression of a Guild Hall.

Chris

Note this also includes Beacon mechanics.

Chris

P.S: I am in content reviews all day so it will be hard for me to catch up until tomorrow morning.

VodCom.6924:

Hi fellow contributors,

I have started a summary thread for the Guild Hall CDI.

Feel free to check here if your suggestion has already be posted and catch up with other contributions

And try to stick to the proposed posting format suggested in the OP. It makes the summarizing job much much easier.

Thanks a lot VOD

Conski Deshan.2057:

@Chris,

Could we take a look at the other end of the spectrum with guildhalls at some point. I know everyone wants to make sure small guilds get in on the fun and I think we have that in order.
I would like to know how guilds are going to stand out, you have 100 guilds with 100 guild halls how do you stand out? What rare/difficult content stuff could you have? what sort of unlocks would this give? What would you do to ensure there are “prestige” rewards for guildhalls in each area of the game? How would you ensure they remain rare and don’t become a fixture in every guild hall?

If people have a problem with skill being the lockout for the high end stuff how would they gate it instead? Bare in mind that anything that doesn’t act as a Y/N* barrier would eventually be overcome/gained by a large amount of guilds.

*(Pass/fail , you either succeed completely and get the reward or you fail and get nothing, tokens , or partial gain would lead to oversaturation)

Yep let’s foucs ont his for a while and discuss progression of a Guild Hall.

Chris

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Nighthawk.6453:

About Open world vs. Instanced GH: what if we sort of combine both? Guild claims some structure in the open world, unused by events, PS and NPCs and it becomes entry point for instanced Guild Hall. Non-guild players can see some basic decorations, like tag and icon, and props tied to upgrades.
Players of the guild that owns the building can enter it’s instanced version. Instanced version is “bigger on the inside” and has interior tied to location, i.e. asura lab or sylvari leaf house for building in Maguuman, human tavern or house for building in Kryta, etc.
Pros:

• GH has Open World noticeable representation.
• GH are spread around the world.

Cons:

• Limited amount of buildings in each area (can be solved by adding more houses, or zone part specifically for houses) .
• Guild members can’t see the exterior without leaving GH.

This is a really good idea.

Chris

Didn’t I already suggest this up-thread when talking with Devata?

Edit: Seems I did . . .

Sorry if i missed it Tobias. Sometimes ideas shine through more after evolution of the discussion.

Chris

Also, I don’t care entirely about full credit. I’m sure someone else brought it up well before me. Bad ideas are like that

Nonsense it is a good idea. Sorry for not picking up on it earlier.

Chris

ardasica.4531:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Re: “What happens to the alliance guild hall…”

The answer is simple: Alliances as an entity do not get guild halls but rather an instanced place to call home which does not receive upgrades (perhaps aside from cosmetic revisions) and thus nothing is lost if the alliance dissolves for whatever reason.

This doesn’t allow small guilds to work with others in regard to progression of the guild hall though.

Chris

Not necessarily true. I co-run a small guild and while we haven’t attempted guild missions or anything, we do pretty good for ourselves. We had a small guild in GW1 and were still able to kit out our hall with everything.

Small guilds are not incapable of doing things in the game to build out a guild hall if the requirements are set forth that way. If the guild has to raise a set fee to purchase the hall and then pay out for other additions, they could do so. They may not get it done as quickly as the larger guilds but it could be done.

I’m on the fence about alliance halls. While I think they have potential benefits, I am leery of how the politics would work if the alliance hall was customizable. I think it is necessary for it to be instanced but have limited custom features in it. Most of the custom options, be it NPCs or decorations should be with the guild halls.

Why do you think that it would be a hurdle for small guilds to work together. If multiple guilds want to take on a guild mission for a single guild, the alliance hall is a place to meet. It is a lot easier than trying to do it on a PvE map or central city.

To be clear as discussed earlier not having alliances as part of Guild Halls in this discussion does not stop small guilds from being able to progress in this area. The idea for alliances came about in regard to potential faster progression.

There seems to be a lot of confusion about this so for the time being lets take alliances out of the Guild Hall discussion as we are just spinning our wheels.

Chris

munkiman.3068:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

VodCom.6924:

Devata.6589:

About the connecting guild-halls. Have a look at this suggestion from Retro on page 1.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Guilds-Guild-Halls/first#post4454383

Is anybody managing a new thread to summarize this CDI-topic ?

If not, do you mind if I start one ? I’m starting to get lost.

Go ahead VOD that would be awesome. Which reminds me i need to send out goodies to those who helped with logistics on the last phase.

Chris

I wish i had time to sort every post in these CDIs. Some days i can do conglomerate posts, but most times I really wish i could just dig deeper into concepts.

All is well with the world, and i’m glad to participate! Thanks Chris, you (and i’m sure several others at Arena reading) is enough for us to continue this journey with everyone involved. I love the re-caps, those folks definitely deserve a medal, or something. A giant hug, i dunno? Can we all get group hug?

Thanks for hosting this stuff.

Thank you all for participating.

Chris

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Re: “What happens to the alliance guild hall…”

The answer is simple: Alliances as an entity do not get guild halls but rather an instanced place to call home which does not receive upgrades (perhaps aside from cosmetic revisions) and thus nothing is lost if the alliance dissolves for whatever reason.

This doesn’t allow small guilds to work with others in regard to progression of the guild hall though.

Chris

Gulesave.5073:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi Gulesave,

There has been a ton of discussion and brainstorming on Guild Hall Content in the thread. Maybe once Jon gets some time he an summarize some of it.

Chris

Chris,

Let me take this from a different angle: What are the things guilds like to do together, and how can the guild hall and its various spaces makes these things easier and more enjoyable?

For example, how can the hall serve as a superior launching pad for jumping en mass into PvE or WvW content? How can the space itself benefit PvP’ers in practicing and testing builds, or organizing and running tournaments? How can it be laid out to enable roleplaying? What incentive is there to visiting other guilds’ halls other than gawking? How are a guilds’ accomplishments demonstrated in the hall, and how can that be interacted with? How can guild members interact with each other in ways they can’t do elsewhere?

How might the spaces and objects and rules specific to the guild hall improve the overall experience of being in a guild?

Yep those are some good questions. Thoughts folks?

Chris

VodCom.6924:

Devata.6589:

About the connecting guild-halls. Have a look at this suggestion from Retro on page 1.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/CDI-Guilds-Guild-Halls/first#post4454383

Is anybody managing a new thread to summarize this CDI-topic ?

If not, do you mind if I start one ? I’m starting to get lost.

Go ahead VOD that would be awesome. Which reminds me i need to send out goodies to those who helped with logistics on the last phase.

Chris

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Nighthawk.6453:

About Open world vs. Instanced GH: what if we sort of combine both? Guild claims some structure in the open world, unused by events, PS and NPCs and it becomes entry point for instanced Guild Hall. Non-guild players can see some basic decorations, like tag and icon, and props tied to upgrades.
Players of the guild that owns the building can enter it’s instanced version. Instanced version is “bigger on the inside” and has interior tied to location, i.e. asura lab or sylvari leaf house for building in Maguuman, human tavern or house for building in Kryta, etc.
Pros:

• GH has Open World noticeable representation.
• GH are spread around the world.

Cons:

• Limited amount of buildings in each area (can be solved by adding more houses, or zone part specifically for houses) .
• Guild members can’t see the exterior without leaving GH.

This is a really good idea.

Chris

Didn’t I already suggest this up-thread when talking with Devata?

Edit: Seems I did . . .

Sorry if i missed it Tobias. Sometimes ideas shine through more after evolution of the discussion.

Chris

Astralporing.1957:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

If two alliances break apart my opinion is that each alliance should keep an instance of the original one and can carry on from there separately.

If a guild leaves an alliance the above solution is completely unworkable as it will lead to cloning and gaming of the systems we are brainstorming.

The harsh design would be if a guild leaves or is kicked it is back to square on or the more complex solution would be total number of pertinent progression points are available to spend on a new Guild Hall that belongs to the guild or can be spent on a Guild Hall of an existing or new alliance.

Chris

I am not sure if Guild Alliances even need a separate progression system. I see them more as convenience, than another tier of upgrades over individual guild ones.

Examples:
Communication and community: Shared Alliance chat channel, shared alliance MOTD, shared meeting ground. Munkiman’s Alliance Hub idea would fit right there – the visuals of that hub could depend on how advanced the individual guilds of the Alliance are.

Guild Missions: When a guild mission is started by any member of the Alliance, every player belonging to the same alliance can participate and receive rewards as if they belonged to the guild that started the mission. Alternatively (in case there’s a fear that people would not want to run the mission for their own guild, if they have already received rewards from an allied one), maybe we could offer two types of rewards per mission (as always, capped per week). One main reward, for your own guild missions, and one (lesser) assist reward, for doing the mission for an allied guild.

Shared functionality: Belonging to a Guild Alliance might offer for every guild the advantages of guild upgrades belonging to other guilds in the alliance. The guilds would be free, of course, to pursue those upgrades on their own, just in case. And of course it doesn’t need to cover all possible upgrades – some might be sharable, while others would need to be researched individually.

It’s also possible for guilds to offer other advantages to each others. For example, one of the ideas i had was a version of “Asuran contractors”: Any guild in the alliance could “donate” to their alliance their currently unused production slots, which other guilds could use to hasten their own upgrades.

In such a system, Guild Alliance is a dynamically generated construct – if a guild joins, or leaves the alliance, the Alliance automatically gets adjusted. There’s no need to worry about dividing alliance investments to individual guilds, because there are only individual investments here.

I like your thoughts around Alliances in terms of there QOL functionality. This was something discussed heavily in phase 1 and Alliance functionality doesn’t have to include guilds.

To be clear Alliance were put forward as a suggestion focusing on allowing smaller guilds to help each other out and thus under that light there is progression and loss.

I am just trying to see if there is a solution to issues raised with Alliance progress functionality.

Chris

Devata.6589:

Just wondering. How open world guild-halls are of the table. Is building your own guild-hall as well? So are we basically back to the most basic idea of an instance with an guild-hall that you can upgrade with different tiers (much like in WvW) and maybe decorate a little?

Or is building your guild-halls still on the table.

We can totally continue to chat about ideas around how a guild hall can be built/upgraded. Jon is discussing that right now with the CDI group.

Chris

Jalefor.5362:

”Community Income”
First off, the idea of a community or alliance income. I’m working from an imagined point where an alliance forms a “guild forum” instance of sorts. A ring of guild halls, customized as they may be, with some open shared space for effectively a small development of a sort of town. An Asuran gate to Lions arch in one corner, run by a small squad of Asura, a bustling market with a handful of basic npc vendors and a few crafting stations embedded in NPC shops in a cluster, a small amphitheater with displayed trophies and plaques of the allied guilds denoting their achievements.
This alliance community would be something that drew income to a region from a roleplay perspective. As such, there would be an expectation that the guilds that formed and protected a community received some portion of that influx as a tax. To give an oversimplified example of how this might work and why it would provide motivation to larger guilds as well:

-Each feature (redundant or not) brought into an alliance by a guild generates an amount of “taxable income.” Duplicates of a feature increase that amount more.

-Each guild’s overall contribution, relative to the other member guilds, determines their “split” of the income

-The income could be “influence”, or any of a variety of other currencies. A discussion for another post.

Example:
Guild A(lpha and omega): 200 active members. Develops half of every possible “alliance feature” for themselves, generating a total of 1000gp/week (gp is an arbitrary currency at this point). As they are not allied with anyone, they receive 1000gp.

Guild B(iggies anonymous): 50 active members. Develops a 25% of the possible “alliance features” for themselves, generating a total of 500gp/week. Also unallied.

It turns out, evert feature Guild B developed was also developed by Guild A. Why purpose would Guild A have in allying?

If they ally, the total available features remain unchanged. However, they now have two “tailor shops”. They don’t manifest separately, but the effect is that the tailor shop has “twice the employees”, and produces 2.5 times as much income for the region. Same for a few other twice-developed features. Guild A contributes more to the overall community, so they get more of the gains. (1000/1500, so 2/3 of the total goes to Guild A) The end result?

Unallied: Guild A: *1000*gp/wk, Guild B: *500*gp/wk

Allied: Total: 1750/wk, Guild A: *1167*gp/wk, Guild B: *583*gp/wk

Why does Guild A want currency? That’s the next discussion.

All the Alliance accrued points or cost ideas are a bit complicated though don’t we think? My main concern is inaccessibility leading to frustration.

If two alliances break apart my opinion is that each alliance should keep an instance of the original one and can carry on from there separately.

If a guild leaves an alliance the above solution is completely unworkable as it will lead to cloning and gaming of the systems we are brainstorming.

The harsh design would be if a guild leaves or is kicked it is back to square on or the more complex solution would be total number of pertinent progression points are available to spend on a new Guild Hall that belongs to the guild or can be spent on a Guild Hall of an existing or new alliance.

Chris

Palador.2170:

JonPeters.5630:

I’m definitely pushing to have us work on some detailed brainstorming of the guild upgrade system. Here is a very short summary of discussion thus far:

• Someone suggested that the upgrades be tied to buildings which I think has some very clear potential.
• People have suggested a few ways to break those upgrades down but none too specific.
• We need to discuss how the building system would incorporate old upgrades but also provide new ones.
• What kind of new upgrades would be possible because of the system turning into buildings?
• What changes to influence and guild progression should happen to make it more intuitive if we went with buildings?
• How do we build customization into this upgrade system where there currently is none? Someone suggested this and there were some talk of separating clear core functionality from the unique customized features, but that is sort of where we stopped.

I’d love to see people just blue sky take a crack and fleshing out some of these ideas and then I would be happy to summarize which ones I think gel well together and try to combine them into a more cohesive design that we could then begin discussing the pros and cons of.

Jon

Do you remember the Trait revamp from earlier this year? Because you’re rushing right towards that same mistake again, but for guilds.

The current upgrade system works. It may not be flashy, and it may need some minor adjustments in a few places, but it does the job and it does it well. Simple and straight forward is important, ESPECIALLY when there’s multiple people giving their time and energy to the guild to make things happen.

Other than a few minor links (guild banners, guild merchants, and such), the two systems should NEVER rely on each other. New upgrades to guilds that do not physically manifest as part of the guild hall should not be part of the guild hall system. Nobody should feel forced into making a guild hall to get a non-hall upgrade.

Now, with that said, I really don’t think you’ll agree with me. So, let’s go all the way with your idea for a moment. If you’re going to do it, there’s no point in half measures.

• A guild should start with a very basic guild hall from the moment of creation. This is the physical representation of your work, and should be there from the very beginning.

• Upgrades to the guild’s max size should upgrade the size of the hall. This will likely require upping the costs to increase the max size. I would also suggest that it require a minimum level in Politics upgrades.

• Asuran portals that target the locations of any guild missions. When one is started, the portal becomes active and can send you there. And before anyone yells “LORE!” at me to say they don’t work like that, there’s an underwater puzzle with a re-targetable asuran portal that needs no exit portals already in the game.

• Influence stays the same. Let’s face it, gold makes things happen. Look at all the ministers in Tyria. With their mansions, guards, and servants, they are practically guilds unto themselves. This is money and politics at work. (Plus: gem sales.)

• Space will be required to put any upgrades into the hall. If you have a small enough hall, you may not have space for all of your upgrades to be active at one time. Pick and choose to fill the open space, and put a cool down timer on changing it so that they don’t just swap them out as needed. Make it important, so there’s more need to upgrade to a bigger hall.

Hi Pala,

Jon is simply brainstorming. He is casting a wide net.

Nothing we ask, say or talk about should be considered as development.

Chris

Jalefor.5362:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Yeah this is a real problem. This could completely preclude Alliance functionality on our Guild Halls discussion. Can we have some ideas to beat this problem please and see if we can solve it?

Chris

I’m only now joining in the conversation, but I have a lot of ideas to contribute. I figured I’d start with this point, since Chris asked so nicely (and directly) for input. =]

Personally, I like something I read in here about each guild being able to bring in some feature for an alliance. I think the idea of developing an alliance-owned guild hall of their very own is just not going to work for all the very valid reasons mentioned (not the least of which is splitting of guilds within an alliance). That said, I think there’re some good options that could be implemented to make alliances viable.

There are a few major points that will bear discussion, so I’ll separate them out here and discuss each in more detail afterward in separate posts. They include:
I: Division of Features among Guilds
II: Small Guild Motivations
III: Large Guild Motivations

People can join the CDI whenever they want. The more the merrier.

Chris

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Astral Projections.7320:

Uh oh. That’s the “I’m so sad. No one has paid any attention to me in at least 5 minutes” look. They definitely know how to put on the pressure.

He is very good at that (-:

Chris

Alvin says he’d love to come play. He loves time with other puppies.

Oh my goodness he is super cute. What breed is he?

Chris

Astral Projections.7320:

Uh oh. That’s the “I’m so sad. No one has paid any attention to me in at least 5 minutes” look. They definitely know how to put on the pressure.

He is very good at that (-:

Chris

Arewn.2368:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I was just thinking about this and then i read your post. This might not be a popular driving function (and I apologize Devata this is nothing personal and I really appreciate your input in the CDI’s) but I would like us (for the sake of focusing the discussion) to move away from Open World Guild Hall discussion.

Put simply I am removing the proposal of open world Guild Halls specifically from our brain storm.

I do however want us to continue to talk about some of the benefits open world brings. For example how could we still keep some of the cool Guild ‘Beacon’ mechanics etc (And by Beacon I mean ways for the guild to express their personality and progression)

Chris

What’s your stance on player real-estate? ‘Guild Beacons’ (as you call it) would be a great inclusion, but if they are to be displayed in the open world in any way, you’ll inevitably run into the issue of ‘real-estate’ (limited space, and who gets the right to occupy that space).
Are you okay with limiting who can display their stuff, or are you looking towards a solution where everyone can show their ‘beacon’, even if to a lesser capacity?

I think it is important for Guilds to be able to show of their prowess in each of the core pillars of the game and Guild Halls would be a great place in terms of a nexus to reward guild members with ways to show of the pride they have for their guild.

Does this answer your question Arewn?

Chris

So of course carry on discussing progession with Jon and any other ideas, discussion points you might have.

But for those interested can we look at these two problems/opportunities:

1: Issues around Alliances and Guild Halls
2: Beacon mechanics in instanced environments

Chris

Chris Whiteside.6102:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Donari.5237:

I think Lanfear’s question is what happens if the guild you are repping swaps alliances and no longer is in the alliance that made the hall — how do you handle man-hour investment in an alliance hall if for reasons fair or foul you need to go separate ways?

Yes, this is precisely what I was asking. I know in GW1, my guild was in several different alliances over the multitude of years that I played. Sometimes alliances just don’t work out for a variety of reasons and guilds go their separate ways.

What happens in such a case, when the guilds split, to all the effort that was put into these ‘shared’ halls. The man hours, the funds, etc. When they join another alliance that has it’s own shared hall already, do they now have their hall, the old shared hall, and then the shared hall for the new alliance as well? This could get cumbersome. Do they lose the old shared hall instead and thus all the effort put into it? That could really tick some people off. Or do shared halls simply no longer exist if the alliance does not exist? Could this not be a double edged sword – ie, as much deterant as incentive to build such an item?

Yeah this is a real problem. This could completely preclude Alliance functionality on our Guild Halls discussion. Can we have some ideas to beat this problem please and see if we can solve it?

Chris

Le Bump

wwwes.1398:

This is neither here nor there, but just wanted to say how awesome this thread is. When it started, I was really of the mindset that guild halls were unnecessary and wouldn’t really add much to the game, but now I just think it sounds like there are some incredibly cool ideas being thrown around. I can’t wait to see what the finished concept is and then to see if anything ever is able to come from it in game.

The guys and girls are doing an awesome job. I thought it would take years to get to this level of quality of CDI and I was wrong.

Chris

Arewn.2368:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I was just thinking about this and then i read your post. This might not be a popular driving function (and I apologize Devata this is nothing personal and I really appreciate your input in the CDI’s) but I would like us (for the sake of focusing the discussion) to move away from Open World Guild Hall discussion.

Put simply I am removing the proposal of open world Guild Halls specifically from our brain storm.

I do however want us to continue to talk about some of the benefits open world brings. For example how could we still keep some of the cool Guild ‘Beacon’ mechanics etc (And by Beacon I mean ways for the guild to express their personality and progression)

Chris

What’s your stance on player real-estate? ‘Guild Beacons’ (as you call it) would be a great inclusion, but if they are to be displayed in the open world in any way, you’ll inevitably run into the issue of ‘real-estate’ (limited space, and who gets the right to occupy that space).
Are you okay with limiting who can display their stuff, or are you looking towards a solution where everyone can show their ‘beacon’, even if to a lesser capacity?

I think it is something we should continue to discuss (-:

Chris

RoseofGilead.8907:

My big brother passed away suddenly in August. He also had a retriever, named Rosie (Chris’s furry friend very much reminds me of her). Sadly, she passed away about two years before he did. He adopted her from a local rescue group back home. The two of them were just the best of friends, and it broke his heart when she died. But after a few months he rescued another awesome furry friend (a part pit/part retriever named Jenna). He took such great care of her, and she helped him cope with so much (especially the loss of Rosie). She’s now being looked after by our parents.

Sorry for the ramble. The post just got me thinking of my brother. But I just wanted to say I’m sure your doggie lived a wonderful life with such a loving family, and you’ll always have those beautiful memories to look back on. <3

Not a ramble at all. Sorry for your loss and thanks for sharing. I can’t even begin to imagine the loss of a brother or sister.

Chris

Astral Projections.7320:

I recommend you get another dog. ^^There are large numbers of dogs in the pound looking for a home. Most of the dogs I’ve gotten were pound dogs and were wonderful pets. As a plus, you’re saving their lives as well as giving them a wonderful home. Yes, it’s sad to lose them but there is the joy from living with them to balance it out.

I have a 2 year old German Shepherd/Doberman cross called Apollo (From the pound) who is gorgeous and who we call son of Abel sometimes because they lived together and he shares much of his character. He is super protective of Alice our 2 year old daughter and that is just sooo cute. So at the moment I am thinking we should just concentrate on him. That said we are still very upset and thus my emotions are no doubt clouding the judgement of everything i am thinking about at the moment.

Keysha.2815:

What about a zone just for guild halls? Then it can have the open world feel, but not be all over the map. I just think guild halls all over would be intrusive. Especially for those who don’t do much with them. Experience says that if you open the world to building, people will drop buildings right where they start. Or in the most intrusive places possible.

And I do not like the idea of airships. I’d rather have buildings, where we can have a large room to see everyone at once.

Yep I think this is a must. Like Devata says it is super important to remain true to the pillars of the game and whilst having large maps doesn’t meet his/her goals it does align with the pillar.

Just want to note again this is a brain storm and not indicative of anything we may or may not be working.

These are my opinions mainly as a player but also as a developer and as always a CDI that the team is reading.

Chris

Tryxtr.6295:

Way too many ideas in here to comment on all of them, but here’s my thoughts on a few.

Instanced versus Open World
Instanced makes perfect sense because it will take way less effort to implement, avoids a lot of the player cap issues and completely avoids the problem of the open world becoming cluttered. Open world guild halls could be amazing in certain scenarios, but realistically I think it would be too much work to implement them.
note: I will admit that walking through Lornar’s Pass, for example, and seeing this huge towering structure built into the mountains would be a very impressive sight

Alliance Guild Halls
I think that having an actual hall for guild alliances would be a mistake, for all the same reasons as everybody else has already mentioned. It would make for a messy divorce. However, I think that building a “bridge” between guild halls that would allow guilds that have an alliance to visit each others Halls, or a large area that specifically exists so the 2 guilds can mingle, would be an excellent compromise and would present no issues whatsoever. If the alliance ever fell apart the “bridge” or auditorium-style room would simply disappear.

Minimum Size of guilds
People are suggesting that a 1 or 2 person guild should have access to a guild hall as well, but my question is “why would they need a guild hall?” They won’t have anybody to talk to, it wouldn’t increase a sense of community, they can’t really GvG (1v1 I guess, but they can do that in PvP or WvW), and the other “stuff” (ie crafting stations, etc) can be found in the open world.

Suggestion to Devs
I think it would be extremely helpful if the devs could constrain our brainstorming a little bit by making a decision on a few key areas, such as instanced -vs- open world and minimum size. That would help streamline the conversation a little. I would also suggest starting an entirely new thread once a couple concrete decisions are made.

Lots of amazing ideas so far and there’s a lot of potential here.

I was just thinking about this and then i read your post. This might not be a popular driving function (and I apologize Devata this is nothing personal and I really appreciate your input in the CDI’s) but I would like us (for the sake of focusing the discussion) to move away from Open World Guild Hall discussion.

Put simply I am removing the proposal of open world Guild Halls specifically from our brain storm.

I do however want us to continue to talk about some of the benefits open world brings. For example how could we still keep some of the cool Guild ‘Beacon’ mechanics etc (And by Beacon I mean ways for the guild to express their personality and progression)

Chris

Arewn.2368:

Devata.6589:

And yes I am aware I said instance. This is purely because I am a fan of instance over open world (-:

But why?

That is a much more important question. It’s Anet who talks about a living and breeding world. Open world guild-halls (and housing) that people can build them-self will be able to do that. Even more so then dynamic events and the living world.

An instance makes is less interesting and more put away, in addition it’s out of the game in a way, or better said it’s out of the game-world.

I very strongly urge you to actually go try Archeage, which has open world housing as a primary feature.
tldr; it can be an absolute nightmare, and in practice the only real benefit is “oh look, I can see some random guy’s house/some random guy can see my house”, and “haha I ganked you on your farm” (in Archeage’s case, it’s an open world pvp game).
Unless Anet can guarantee a plot per player, it’s going to cause some pretty ugly situations and some very jaded players. And they’d likely have to do so without introducing vast expanses of open space, or cluttering the normal maps’ skies with airships that people have to render, if they want it to look any kind of reasonable.
When you’ve spent a week looking for a plot, any plot, to build on to no avail, or when your beautiful house gets neighbors that block out your nice view or build something that aesthetically looks like trash to you and clashes with your house, you get a lot less enthusiastic about the “open world” part of housing.

Instanced housing/guild halls that can have some sort of interaction with outside forces (gvg being a popular one, but it could include other things like the ability to make the hall open to the public and having events within) would, I feel, be far more conductive to community interaction while circumventing the real estate issues entirely.

I’ll say it again for anyone on the side of “open world housing”. Go try Archeage and see what Open World Housing is actually like in practice. I’m not saying it’s entirely bad, but a reality check on what it actually entails in practice is always a good thing.

I agree and have been looking at Archeage to. It is always important to look at other games relevant games and feature in the same field when designing.

Chris

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Donari.5237:

I think Lanfear’s question is what happens if the guild you are repping swaps alliances and no longer is in the alliance that made the hall — how do you handle man-hour investment in an alliance hall if for reasons fair or foul you need to go separate ways?

Yes, this is precisely what I was asking. I know in GW1, my guild was in several different alliances over the multitude of years that I played. Sometimes alliances just don’t work out for a variety of reasons and guilds go their separate ways.

What happens in such a case, when the guilds split, to all the effort that was put into these ‘shared’ halls. The man hours, the funds, etc. When they join another alliance that has it’s own shared hall already, do they now have their hall, the old shared hall, and then the shared hall for the new alliance as well? This could get cumbersome. Do they lose the old shared hall instead and thus all the effort put into it? That could really tick some people off. Or do shared halls simply no longer exist if the alliance does not exist? Could this not be a double edged sword – ie, as much deterant as incentive to build such an item?

Yeah this is a real problem. This could completely preclude Alliance functionality on our Guild Halls discussion. Can we have some ideas to beat this problem please and see if we can solve it?

Chris

Nighthawk.6453:

About Open world vs. Instanced GH: what if we sort of combine both? Guild claims some structure in the open world, unused by events, PS and NPCs and it becomes entry point for instanced Guild Hall. Non-guild players can see some basic decorations, like tag and icon, and props tied to upgrades.
Players of the guild that owns the building can enter it’s instanced version. Instanced version is “bigger on the inside” and has interior tied to location, i.e. asura lab or sylvari leaf house for building in Maguuman, human tavern or house for building in Kryta, etc.
Pros:

• GH has Open World noticeable representation.
• GH are spread around the world.

Cons:

• Limited amount of buildings in each area (can be solved by adding more houses, or zone part specifically for houses) .
• Guild members can’t see the exterior without leaving GH.

This is a really good idea.

Chris

DragonWhimsy.6489:

On the matter of Guild Alliance Halls, I have nothing against those necessarily, but they are absolutely not a replacement for small guilds having their own guild hall.

From a RP’ers perspective though, that could be a really awesome way to have a fully RP’ed town or other shared experience. I think the RP community would really enjoy that.

I don’t disagree. The discussion around alliances and small guild access to Guild Halls are not mutually exclusive.

Chris

Rambodacious.7495:

Adventuring – Specializing in this category provides:

Responding to Chris Whiteside

I love the idea of the alliances you posted, but I think each guild should have to build/improve their own structures. If you represent a given guild within the alliance then you can take advantage of their buffs. This would allow guilds of varying specializations from above to band together and give all of their players access to all aspects of the game without having to grind out their own upgrades. Also, with this change, small guilds could then benefit with little to worry about.

Allowing a special channel for Alliance Chat would be great too.

Honestly, smaller guilds could just ally with the larger ones and get all the bells and whistles. Bigger guilds would want it, because it’s a few more people repping the guild here and there throwing coppers into the Guild Vaults per above. Everyone wins.

As far as how to go about actually unlocking the tiers/upgrades etc from above? I’ll get to that tomorrow.

Hi Rambo,

I totally agree with:

Allowing a special channel for Alliance Chat would be great too.

As a player I hope GW2 gets more custom chat channels full stop.

I love the idea of the alliances you posted, but I think each guild should have to build/improve their own structures.

This is an interesting an complex idea. The idea of guilds in this scenario of having building specialties is just awesome. i going to have think about this some more.

It would be totally cool to have guild outside of your alliance that you could reward or pay to come into your guild area and guild from a set of custom creations. Note i am brain storming here, this is a very complex but cool idea.

Chris

Baltzenger.2467:

I don’t think it does any good to start repeating suggestions to not have them “buried” in the thread, because by doing so, the thread is getting very messy and hard to read. I do not know if the purpose of this is that “we” get to a consensus, because how will we? It’s better to just post your suggestions/ideas (once!), answer to the questions proposed, and move on.
I’m sure the team will read the whole thread and not just the last pages, also, if something needs to be further discussed, we will be asked to expand on that, like we have been doing to this point.

I mean, it shouldn’t be that an idea gets more attention because it is posted more times on the same thread…

Exactly. If someone posts then it is read, considered and added to knowledge base of many of the CDI collaborators. That post then informs discussion and problem solving, thus there is no need to repost. If there hasn’t been a direct answer or question by anyone it doesn’t mean that it hasn’t been useful to the conversation. As we continue to move forward with the discussion we will drill down further and things will be more focused. This particular CDI has been excellent and we are definitely not out of the discussion phase so hang tight and lets carry on having a great discussion.

For those that are interested I did a talk at VFS Game Design Expo a few years ago that goes through the different roles of a game designer during development. Watching the pertinent parts (Mainly the Concept and Dev section) maybe useful if you all if you have the time to watch it. Please note these are my personal experiences and opinions and the talk is not designed to be put forward as fact or the opinion of Arena.

Chris

Devata.6589:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

All good points and this one is very valid:

‘I think, for smaller guilds, the basic bonuses should be obtainable easily. Examples like a guild armorer merchant or something. But the bigger, longer, and higher stuff should stay the bigger and longer. Yes, big guilds will reach it faster than smaller guilds, but that’s the nature of the beast. Bigger guilds are going to get to the bigger and better stuff sooner.’

This is also a very acute point:

‘As for guild alliance halls. They could work, and would be neat. The only issue would be, what happens if the alliance breaks apart? who gets the hall?’

Initial thoughts are that members of the Alliance would each get an instance of the shared guild hall. And yes I am aware I said instance. This is purely because I am a fan of instance over open world (-:

Chris

And yes I am aware I said instance. This is purely because I am a fan of instance over open world (-:

But why?

That is a much more important question. It’s Anet who talks about a living and breeding world. Open world guild-halls (and housing) that people can build them-self will be able to do that. Even more so then dynamic events and the living world.

An instance makes is less interesting and more put away, in addition it’s out of the game in a way, or better said it’s out of the game-world.

Hi Dev,

For all the reasons and more stated by many in the thread about the pros and cons of open world vs instance. Also it is very acheivable to have a living and breathing world within an instanced map (I do however understand your point).

Chris

Donari.5237:

For those suggesting “defend the guild hall events,” what happens if the guild fails the event? What rewards come from succeeding and how are those balanced against other game play modes? How is it kept from being a mob-wave farm fest while still feeling rewarding to use? What makes it special to guilds as opposed to just finding events in the world to do? Would the guild have the choice to just never trigger such a thing?

I’m not dissing the idea, as it certainly could be fun to have an option for action and adventure surrounding the hall, just wondering about these factors.

My assumption is from reading the related threads that you would lose some of your progression in the guild hall and would have to build it back up.

Chris

Gulesave.5073:

With all this talk of how to build and manage the halls, and where to put them, and who can see them and go in them, I’m not seeing any mention of what you would want to do once you’re in there.

The desired functions of the hall and its constituent upgrades should be considered from as early a point as possible, to inform the design from the legs up.

Preferably, I think, it should be a place to do things we can’t do anywhere else. Otherwise why build it? Unless you really just want your guild hall to be nothing but an elaborate meeting hall with a few crafting tables…

Hi Gulesave,

There has been a ton of discussion and brainstorming on Guild Hall Content in the thread. Maybe once Jon gets some time he an summarize some of it.

Chris

Donari.5237:

I think Lanfear’s question is what happens if the guild you are repping swaps alliances and no longer is in the alliance that made the hall — how do you handle man-hour investment in an alliance hall if for reasons fair or foul you need to go separate ways?

That is an interesting issue. Alliances in this context are pretty complex because of this one point.

Chris

Clerigo.9475:

Sad to hear Chris.

Heres my buddy. Name was Boris. Was with us for almost 15 years. Gone this past February.

One of the longest nights of my life. Me and my brother up all night until vet arrives to put him down in the morning. Closed his eyes, and no more.

Miss him alot. Still find myself looking for him when i get home.

Never will have another pet again.

I am so sorry. I don’t think we will get another dog )-:

Chris

Elric Of Melnibone.4781:

I just had to put down my best friend of 16 and a half years this Saturday and for those who are not pet owner’s you cannot imagine how big a hole they leave behind when they go. I think a general pet memorial someplace out of the way in the game would be wonderful.

.. )-:

Chris

Gaile Gray.6029:

Oh, dear, I didn’t know. I’m so sorry, Chris, and yes, I’m sitting here at work crying my eyes out.

My heart is with you and your family. <3 to you all.

Hugs Gaile.

Chris

FYI i will be reading the discussion tonight and jumping back int tomorrow!

Chris

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

‘As for guild alliance halls. They could work, and would be neat. The only issue would be, what happens if the alliance breaks apart? who gets the hall?’

Initial thoughts are that members of the Alliance would each get an instance of the shared guild hall. And yes I am aware I said instance. This is purely because I am a fan of instance over open world (-:

Chris

Personally I think I’d prefer instanced Guild Halls over open world ones anyway, since I wouldn’t necessarily want people wandering into my hall uninvited. Would be like someone simply wandering into my home without knocking. But, that’s just my take on it.

Now, with each guild getting their own instanced of the previously built “shared” hall, if the guild entered into a new/different alliance would they then lose that, since this different alliance would potentially have their own shared hall? Could they potentially lose all the effort they put into the previously shared hall, or would that effort then translate into the new alliance? (which opens up a whole different selection of issues and potential exploits)

I way I see it is that you have access to any guild you are repping.

Chris

FYI I am AFK currently.

Hi All,

Sorry I was afk. Again thanks for all your kinds words and also my sympathies for all of those that are and have been here.

Chris

Khisanth.2948:

Serophous.9085:

As for minimum size, I would say 25 members must be in the guild to start. That seems like an easily achievable number, especially with people able to join up to 4 guilds at a time.

What would be the benefit of this arbitrary limit? How does it improve the content?

Being able to join up to 4 guilds at a time is irrelevant. Having to grab extra filler members just so you can build a guild hall would be silly. If someone leaves the guild and you are now at 24 members does the guild hall go poof? If not what was the point of the limit? If yes … expect a lot of complaints from all over the place.

FYI I would not put a hard gate on number of guildees required for Guild Hall creation. That is my personal opinion.

Chris

Note Jon and I are asking separate questions about different areas of the feature. Hopefully this isn’t to confusing. Feel free to engage both of us in tandem.

Chris

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Serophous.9085:

Edgar Doiron.2804:

Serophous.9085:

As for guild alliance halls. They could work, and would be neat. The only issue would be, what happens if the alliance breaks apart? who gets the hall? Does it go away if the alliance fails and a new one has to be started all over? If anything, that could be a completely new and different CDI if (or after ) guild halls are implemented.

That sounds as complicated as a divorce :P

and chances are, it would be!

All the more reason to keep things separate imo. Fewer peeved people in the long run.

Note we have come up with two valid options that can also be part of the design.

1: Small Guilds aren’t Excluded.
2: Alliances can create a shared Guild Hall.

Chris

All good points and this one is very valid:

‘I think, for smaller guilds, the basic bonuses should be obtainable easily. Examples like a guild armorer merchant or something. But the bigger, longer, and higher stuff should stay the bigger and longer. Yes, big guilds will reach it faster than smaller guilds, but that’s the nature of the beast. Bigger guilds are going to get to the bigger and better stuff sooner.’

This is also a very acute point:

‘As for guild alliance halls. They could work, and would be neat. The only issue would be, what happens if the alliance breaks apart? who gets the hall?’

Initial thoughts are that members of the Alliance would each get an instance of the shared guild hall. And yes I am aware I said instance. This is purely because I am a fan of instance over open world (-:

Chris

munkiman.3068:

Chris Whiteside.6102:

Hi Munki,

We are just brain storming and thus throwing the idea of Alliances up. it was the top voted QOL proposal by the CDI group and something that I think would be really good for many aspects of the game.

It is important to try to not think of me as a dev in the discussion. I am just helping you guys to design and problem solving and you guys are helping me with your design ideas and community persona.

Chris

Fair enough, although i think of you and Jon as the ones that drive these conversations, more in the sense that we at least have a tighter structure so we can all sort specific ideas out. I mentioned some of this in a previous post.

I agree Alliances should be a thing, for sure. I also think you should be able to visit each guild in an alliance hall and guest to that guild for things like GvG and missions. A couple features that should come along with the Alliance idea. But, then again, we still need to work out the issue with a map cap even moreso then.

Yeah we are happy to drive and thanks for letting us do so. What i mean is just because we all talk about something it doesn’t mean it is a ‘thing’.

Chris

Devata.6589:

JonPeters.5630:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

JonPeters.5630:

[…]

Saved for later when we get a dungeon or raid CDI: I like the direction in which this suggestion is going but I would suggest another implementation.

Back to Guild Halls
One question I would like to have answered:
Guilds can hold up to 500 players. Normal maps can hold up to 100 – 150 (?) players.
How do you want to ensure that players don’t feel separated from each other, can you raise the player-cap for Guild Halls?
Do you have any other idea how to get around this issue?

As Chris would put it: Le Bump.
I would like to know how you want to get around the player cap.

I’ll chime in a bit here. It is a good question. I think there would be some conflict here but that there would also be some technical wiggle room. I think we can safely assume that 500 players from a guild being logged in is not the common case. What is a “reasonable” maximum # of members in the guild hall to you? 150? 200? 400?

But if we have maps with multiple guild-halls?

So the question then is, why is the number of players limited. Or does it only have to be limited within an area around players? So as long as we prevent more then x players to come to close to each other it should be fine.

Usually you would think there should not really be a max to the number of players in a map but there would be a max to the numbers of players close to each other.

And I think 250 would be the max even for a HC 500 man guild. But I’m not in a HC 500 man guild so would not know.

I would think you guys have the numbers for that. For us it would be guessing.

Lets assume for brainstorming reasons we have 1 large map.

Chris