Guild Wars 2

Sabyne.6329:

Leo Paul.1659:

^This. If they think 800 gems and reverting the armor back to its original skin (the very first skin used) is enough compensation for this whole fiasco, they better think again. A debacle as big as this cannot be satiated by that alone. In fact, that’ll only introduce another outrage.

Then again, there are people who believe it serves us right. Look what someone answered me on another thread. Priceless really.

Corpus Christi.2057:

…The answer by the community to the release of the Flamekissed armour was almost unanimous – hence the response from ANet that must have happened. In-game chat, forum chat, reddit, literally everywhere the community objections were present.
If you then went on to craft new objects in order to match the new looks – let’s face it, it is your own mistake. The mistake on ANet’s part to release this skin was like a “bug” of the game that should not have happened in the first place. The gem refund is all that you deserve, really.

If you start being reasonable, it is anything but priceless, really. Just think it over. You will arrive at the same conclusion.

Manda D Ulin.2367:

Morinmeth.9823:

This. Unfortunately, Arenanet is just following what the community asks for. It’s not the company’s problem, trying to please the customers, the problem is that the customers are… well, don’t get me started.

The real problem is a minor section of the community cried and now another section of the community is starting to find out about it but only after Anet sided with the prior.

You are wrong at the very basis of your statement.

To begin with, the only representative part of the community is that which is active both in game and on the official forums. No one will force anyone to take active part. It is up to the interested parties to share their views, opinions and ideas. If the rest does not take part in the discussion on the official forums or in the game ( with whatever their motives may be ), then it is more than obvious they should not have anything to say with regards to some “minority crying”.
What is more, having in mind the above, it is a total mistake to say only a “minority cried”. The response was almost unanimous, and it is evidenced in the numerous topics, even the threads that included both sides of the argument were overwhelmed with the “dissatisfied” people. Hence, de facto, the majority “cried”, as you ironically stated.
Not to mention that ANet did admit that it was not the best idea to introduce a skin that is a “refined” version of a cultural armour, which in turned has been underlined on numerous occasions to be exclusive to appropriate races of Tyria. Therefore, it was, de facto, not a “cry” but a correct response on the overwhelming majority of the community.
To sum it up, you have no point here and posting such disrespectful and half-baked messages is wrong. Reconsider your behaviour before you ironically offend the majority that voices their opinions. Thanks.

MisterEction.9382:

Sabyne.6329:

Panteri.4073:

I know that I get a gem refund, but will my old armor be refunded as well? That costed 800 gems for me too. And according to the posts here they reskinned their t3 with this flamekissed armor set. So what if they wont refund old armor, those people will have to pay 119 again for t3?

Based on what the support answered to someone, your previous skin won’t be refunded. So if you lost a gem store skin, a t3, bought new expensive dyes for your new look, weapons, makeover kits, etc, it’s all lost and won’t be reverted. GG Anet, GG community.

Nanoko.1850:

customer support got back to me, they will not be offering a way to get back an old T3 skin, if you want it back after the change, you will have to rebuy the skin. the only thing that will be offered is the refund of 800 gems and an automatic reskin when the new one is put in.

Thank you crusaders and anet, you just screwed people out of even more gold.

But, but, aren’t we supposed to wait and see and Customer Service will help us?

“So the Flamekissed Armor Skin will be reworked. And when it is, you guys are welcome to share your thoughts and to let Customer Support know what they can do for you. "

“Please keep in mind we’ve already made it clear that Customer Support will try to resolve the individual concerns that you may have once the armor change is made.”

^ That, plus…
…The answer by the community to the release of the Flamekissed armour was almost unanimous – hence the response from ANet that must have happened. In-game chat, forum chat, reddit, literally everywhere the community objections were present.
If you then went on to craft new objects in order to match the new looks – let’s face it, it is your own mistake. The mistake on ANet’s part to release this skin was like a “bug” of the game that should not have happened in the first place. The gem refund is all that you deserve, really.

When buying gems for real money, you accept the contract for buying precisely that – gems. Nowhere there does it say “by buing gems, you are guaranteed that skin which is purchasable with gems.” There is no logical link between buying gems and, by performing that action, being guaranteed a certain skin. These two things have no logical link. It is obvious that you buy the gems in order to buy something else. Nevertheless, the first contract, to buy gems, does not involve the other contract to buy something else you have in mind.
Hence, you buy gems ( 1st independent action ), and then buy a skin that you liked, with gems ( 2nd independent action ), a skin which is later on removed due to an issue, you are in the end returned your gems ( the 2nd independent action that it refers to ), not the money with which you bought gems ( the 1st independent action it does not refer to ). The fact that you had a motive of buying gems in order to buy the new skin does not mean that you should be, e.g. returned you real money back ( 1st independent action ).
It’s very simple really, when you think about it.

Best regards

mons.1386:

Aerlen is right,

I own the human light T3 for very long and paid some real money to buy some gems and get this T3 “newskin”.
I don’t want another bad looking armor instead of this one ,i want my real money back.So what will happen?Arenanet took my real money and keeps it while i am not interested in anything else in the game . This sounds really irrespectfull.
What next,they’ll sell legendaries skins for gems ,people will pay some real money to get it and 2 days later,they’ll say:“Ok,we made a mistake,we change these legendary skins into skins you won’t like but we don’t care,you’ve already paid for it and we keep the money.”?!

The contract you are accepting when buying gems is for gems only. Nothing to discuss here, really. It’s like saying “I bought a tour to Paris to visit Musee du Louve but it was closed. I want my money back!” – but hey, nothing in the contract was there promising you the visit to de Louvre/Flamekissed skin.
Be reasonable next time – that’s what I’ve got to tell you.

The good thing is that ANet did, finally, admit to making a mistake. That is most honourable a behaviour, for which I indeed thank ANet.

I was correct to still have my hope in you. I know that from now on you will be able to communicate well with the “constructive” part of the community in order to make this game live up to its pre-release promises: the most special MMO game ever.

Let’s hope such mistakes as the one with Flamekissed armour don’t see the light of day again.

Let’s just communicate well, both the devs and the average people.

Together, we can do it!

Thank you, ANet, for re-thinking and correcting you mistake. Thank you again.

Guys, if they do not respond to this obviously wrong decision on their part, it simply means they do not care/are happy with their current policy. Yet, if that’s the case, do not worry: plenty of new mmo games coming out in 2014.

Hope we get some new gem-purchasable items, including other cultural sets, possibly legendaries/precursors and so on.

slurpey.6014:

this is gw2 and not gw1. if you like the changes made or being made to gw1 go play that game.

If you do not see the obvious connection between the two games, and if you do not accept some constructive criticism made here, you’d better not respond at all if everything that you want to add is “if you don’t like it, go away.” Thanks.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Cali.5721:

Aerlen.5326:

Corpus Christi.2057:

pdg.8462:

Ravenmoon.5318:

jheryn.8390:

Jordo.5913:

I planned on getting T3 Human for my elementalist human upon reaching level 80, but now i’m going to get it at half the price, plus it’ll even look cooler with the fire on it!

Don’t ruin this for me!

So for all the people who worked hard and paid full price for that armor, they shouldn’t complain because it will ruin it for you? Wow… Just… Wow.

If you buy 1kg of bananas for 20 euro today just to see it in promotion tomorrow in half the price, will you boycott the supermarket, lol

So many delusional people on this board …

Straw man.

Bananas do not have the same clout as T3 cultural armor. A better analogy might be “If you buy an iPhone for $600 today just to see it in promotion tomorrow in half the price, will you boycott the vendor, lol”.

It’s still a terrible analogy since it does not include the “exclusivity” element, which is pivotal here.
A better analogy would, therefore, be:
“If you buy X, which is designed for a group of people C1, for $600, just to see it in sale for a group of people C2 ( for which it has never been designed ) for $300, will you boycott the vendor?”
The answer is obvious: yes

You buy X which has a limited run of 800 and you pay full price for it. Lucky you happen to be a member of X club which were the only people allowed the chance to buy X at all.

Wow. Such cool. Very show off. Much value. You have X and you get to show X off.

The company that makes X sees X sold so well; lots of people liked X, lots of others want X but can’t get X. They like money because, let’s be honest, what company doesn’t? So they decide to make a variation of X called Y. Y is available to everyone and costs less. Some people think Y looks better, some people think Y is crap, but Y sells.

So do you as an owner of X toss a fit? X is still the original and very easily told apart from Y. Having X still says you are a member of an exclusive club and didn’t have to “settle” for Y. Having Y says you couldn’t get X or maybe you like Y better. True, Y existing devalues X somewhat… but likely people who have Y could never afford X to begin with.

BTW – this happens all the time in the collectables market over real goods that are bought as investments, not cosmetic enhancements for pixels. I still think this was a lazy thing for Anet to do but the rage over it doesn’t make sense to me.

This analogy might work if you included the following points:

1. Those who bought X were told that this item would remain exclusive to only their group.

2. Y is sold at half the cost of X

3. Y has added features that X does not have.

1. I do not remember anyone telling me that human T3 will be only for humans, i just assumed so. The price only suggested that this armor will be very rare.
2. That is player’s “fault”. They sell the armors for gems, not gold, but im happy to hear you are OK with maths
3. The “features” are quite questionable IMHO. I don’t like flame on my armor one bit.

Ad. 1. The fact you do not remember that does not mean it has not been so stated in the game. Quite on the contrary to your beliefs, it is clearly stated in the game: “This armor is usable by X race only.” Noteworthy, “cultural armor” – what the point of the “CULTURAL” armor would, therefore, be? There are two types of propositions, direct and indirect ones. Completely separate are assumptions you are referring to ( and it is a mistake to identify the “purpose” of cultural armor as being “assumed” rather than “defined”, either directly or indirectly ). Nothing to discuss here. Evidence ( actual cases ) as discussed by Midnight in another thread:

Like i said on the french forum, people have been banned for getting this armore on norn characters, using the cash shop stone of transmutation, and the reason was “We want it to be exclusive to human race” and now it’s avaiable for all races. That’s what bugs me here. So Anet ban people for no reason and don’t care if people cheat since they get some $ or € in the process? Really nice.

Ad. 3. What you refer to here is your opinion, not the fact of there being such an added value ( as additional effects, for instance ). Therefore, you are wrong, again. With regards to the scenario presented by Aerlen, he is also wrong in stating that “Y” is a variation of “X”. No, “X+” would be a variation of “X”, since we deal here not with a completely new object but with the same object with some “refinements” added, which is a fact. Hence, the whole analogy as given by Aerlen, with some further points made, is unclear and its valid status very doubtful.

Best regards

pdg.8462:

Ravenmoon.5318:

jheryn.8390:

Jordo.5913:

I planned on getting T3 Human for my elementalist human upon reaching level 80, but now i’m going to get it at half the price, plus it’ll even look cooler with the fire on it!

Don’t ruin this for me!

So for all the people who worked hard and paid full price for that armor, they shouldn’t complain because it will ruin it for you? Wow… Just… Wow.

If you buy 1kg of bananas for 20 euro today just to see it in promotion tomorrow in half the price, will you boycott the supermarket, lol

So many delusional people on this board …

Straw man.

Bananas do not have the same clout as T3 cultural armor. A better analogy might be “If you buy an iPhone for $600 today just to see it in promotion tomorrow in half the price, will you boycott the vendor, lol”.

It’s still a terrible analogy since it does not include the “exclusivity” element, which is pivotal here.
A better analogy would, therefore, be:
“If you buy X, which is designed for a group of people C1, for $600, just to see it in sale for a group of people C2 ( for which it has never been designed ) for $300, will you boycott the vendor?”
The answer is obvious: yes

Lazarus.3970:

My guess/hope is that they are secretly working on a new standalone game like Factions and Nightfall were, and will surprise everyone by covering it up with the living story crap.

This would, honestly, be the only excuse that any reasonable person could accept for giving us this terrible LS, T3 “unique” armor for gems, bugged fractals etc. etc.

GOSU.9574:

I will be a bit amazed if there are enough people still playing next year to have any functional GvG. Games coming out and the rats are fleeing the sinking ship.

With the recent downward curve of the devs “brilliance” regarding new updates, I won’t be surprised, really.

Please, tell me this is a joke, ANet. Remember – Spring 2014 and a bunch of new games. Better stop buggering around and rethink your policy, seriously. Loads of people love this game but with moves like this, you are ruining it. Seriously, this is the first time I’m really kitten ed off with your behaviour…

Precisely. The new armour sets are a joke. Please, add some new effects to an already existing piece of armour = ANet policy. Bravo. It’s pathetic, really..

Deso people are funny, I like playing against them! BTW, I like it how you call us “Gandalf”, lol.:P

lordkrall.7241:

There are map-caps. And those map-caps are tied to the servers, not the map as a whole. So server 1 can have x players, server 2 x players and server 3 x players on Map Y.
Server 1 can never fill up the map so that server 2 and 3 can’t get the same amount of players.

Ah, so the max. nr. of players per server is equal for the three of them. Thank you for answering my question.

Cheers

It’s quite simple really. To me, it’s also a basic logical requirement for any competitive game. Although I may be wrong and such a requirement is already in place, I think that each server ought to have the cap for their playerbase at WvW.
And this cap should be equal for each server. Why? It doesn’t need explanation. But, as I am usually a polite guy, I’ll serve you one: look at football, for instance. ( ye, the yankie “soccer” one ). It would be ridiculous to distribute the number of players for each team on the “first come, first served” basis.
However, this ridiculousness is what we can observe at the current Season One WvW match-ups. Some servers simply outnumber the others, not merely because they, overall, have more players, but because they are the first to put in more players than other servers before the limit is reached.
Just a short post. If there’s one that is similar/exactly the same, please consider my apologies.

Best regards

Peetee.9406:

You guys want to hold ArenaNet to quotes taken a year ago or worse yet a manifesto taken five years.

But what if new information comes to light? What if the majority of players like to grind?

You wouldn’t want your doctor or stockbrooker using outdated information.Why should ArenaNet be any different?

You wouldn’t like your political party to change their manifesto sometime after the election, would you? Logic.

Bambula.3649:

The old version from brazil is much better for high frac than the new one, most time you need sustained dps and with the 20/25/0/25 version its stronger

Than is one point i dont understand, for what you need assasins eq?
With full zerker+spotter and more than 50% fury uptime i think its more dps lose than you get

It’s been calcualated in one of the other topics, and Brazil mentions this in the video above. 3 pieces of zerk and 3 pieces of assassin give you the highest dmg output. I’ll try to find the link to the calculations once I have some time.

Best regards

Just like someone once suggested to Brazil, instead of berserker take assassin stats. The rest it’s a pretty standard ranger build. Max dmg output, with frost spirit at times. Generally speaking, at very high fractal levels, you want to stick to RaO.

PS I do occasionally have a shortbow in my bag.

Either a traditional expansion or an “expansion” within the LS. One of these is certain in 2014. No doubt about it.

KyreneZA.8617:

Corpus Christi.2057:

I’m thinking of adding radiant mantle skin to this set

Yeah, that will go so well with the under-boob armour. You simply must not delay another minute!

I appreciate the irony, hopefully, it’s going to look decent, though!:P

Ryan.8367:

sminkiottone.6972:

you forget one thing :

5 points in wilderness survival + Bowl of orrian truffle and meat stew grant you +90% endurance regen, now combine it with s/d + sb evades + lightning reflex…

They don’t stack by the way

Sometimes I feel like such people who have no idea about the game mechanics just come here and troll. Just for fun. Indeed, they do not stack.

With all due respect, anyone who claims that spirits’ passives are unimportant in PvE ( dungeons/fractals; notice I’m not talking about WvW or sPvP ), simply misses their point. Nothing to add beyond this point really.

You are forgetting that devs are also human and they make mistakes… Unfortunately, too often do they touch rangers…

My 3rd ( I know, but I love rangers, really! ) ranger! She’s my main atm! I’m thinking of adding radiant mantle skin to this set, which includes T3 cultural, T2 cultural, radiant skin, and a thief starting hood ( however, hidden, so I can show my beautiful hair style )

Kilandros.2098:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Kilandros.2098:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Kilandros.2098:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Kilandros.2098:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Ethics.4519:

Jski.6180:

Seeing that much ppl got to 50 on an exploitation that was fixed i think its ok to drop it down i am not sure about all the way to 30 but its still needed if your going to changes things up.

Then they should remove dungeon master and all gold + drops obtained from dungeons since a lot of people exploit dungeons.

^ And that.

What about this?

Asia Skyly.7198:

It is completely contradictory:
On one hand: “I did high level fractals for the incredible challenge, even when I knew the rewards were lousy.”

On the other hand" " I demand I be rewarded for all of the “work” and “money” I spent doing something I knew quite well had lousy rewards."

What about some thinking?

You got no title for doing higher level fractals – actually, kitten , you got nothing of perceptible worthiness. Those who did the very high level fractals, like everyone here underlines, was the pure challenge and fun time with something rather difficult ( nothing else in this game compares really ).
Now, suddenly, those who advanced to, let’s say, level 31 and those who advanced to, let’s say, level 70, are placed in the new system on equal footing, i.e. level 30. How is that fair, in any ridiculously stretched understandings of the word “fair” you may have in your dictionary?
Like I said above, some of people here are thinking only in perceptible things ( notably you ), while some other in both perceptible and non-perceptible ( me and those who did very high level fractals ). The reason why people demand some compensation is because they want they equally importnant, non-perceptible experiences compensated in the perceptible manner. Simple, I think.

In other words:

“I did 50+ Fractals knowing that there was no ‘tangible’ reward, just hard content and the feeling of accomplishment that comes with completing hard content. That’s enough for a true competitor like me. But now that I’ve completed that hard content, I demand a tangible reward! Otherwise, what was the point of spending all that time and energy trying to beat hard content if there was no reward!”

Your reasoning is entirely contradictory. My guess is because it’s dishonest. My guess is you did 50+ hoping to have a head start on the new stuff once those Fractals were opened and now you’re mad you wasted your time and have nothing to show for it. You always expected a reward and the challenge was secondary. And now you’re demanding that reward.

It’s the last time I am repeating this one to you: I’ve mentioned both PERCEPTIVE AND NON-PERCEPTIVE rewards. One can compensate for the other, i.e. if the non-perceptive one gets obliterated, the perceptive one can compensate for it. The activity of grinding shows the drive for perceptive awards only, whereas the activity of high fractal running shows the combined type. It’s basic psychology, really.

I agree—it is basic psychology:

“I expected to have a head start when they introduced 50+ Fractals. I was wrong and they aren’t introducing 50+ Fractals and now my time is wasted. I want a freebie, but worry they won’t give it to me considering I was trying to get a head start on content they didn’t want us doing. If I claim I was never interested in a reward in the first place, and was only doing it for the challenge, perhaps they’ll give me a reward anyway!”

Nah. Not buying it.

Also, what you mean to say is “tangible.” You’re talking about tangible rewards (i.e., Fractal skins) vs. intangible rewards (i.e., accomplishment having completed hard content).

The fact you are not buying it does not negate the possibility of it being true. Glad you finally admitted it is a possibility.
And yes, it is called a synonym. Thanks. I’ll use it for future reference.

I don’t admit it’s a possibility. Having read all of your posts here I don’t doubt for a minute that you ran 50+ to get ahead of the game before the Fractal update came out, and now you’re upset it didn’t go your way so you’re trying to salvage the effort by insisting on something being given to you.

Once again, you have admitted that such a scenario is a possibility which deserves a compensation, but that this scenario, however, is not my case. I am satisfied with that. Finally.

Thanks and enjoy the evening!

Ethics.4519:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Atherakhia.4086:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Korossive.7085:

Agree on pvp rank comparison, heck, reset everyone to 30 too see how the community likes the game then.

^ That.

That would have a measurable and negative impact on the playerbase. There is no measurable or negative impact on players by lowering your fractal level to 30. You gained nothing and lose nothing with it changing. You already lost your time and resources getting there, sure. But you had fun doing it. It’s just like when your car is repossesed due to lack of payment. They don’t refund you what you paid because you don’t have your car anymore.

If you can tell me a single item or skill you lose by having your fractal level reduced to 30 we’ll talk.

See, Kilandros, that’s what I am talking about – precisely the type of a person who is driven by perceptible factors only.

I think everybody should post their fotm personal level. My guess would be that 95% of the people arguing for compensation (both on levels and backpieces) are 40+ with a backpiece, while 95% of those saying we shouldn’t get anything are lvl 39- with 1 or no backpieces.

My point being is those that won’t be affected by this should probably just stay quiet, ESPECIALLY if the reward is a title or something not monetary.

lvl: 48

Well, let’s be honest, it is more than apparent.

Kilandros.2098:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Kilandros.2098:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Kilandros.2098:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Ethics.4519:

Jski.6180:

Seeing that much ppl got to 50 on an exploitation that was fixed i think its ok to drop it down i am not sure about all the way to 30 but its still needed if your going to changes things up.

Then they should remove dungeon master and all gold + drops obtained from dungeons since a lot of people exploit dungeons.

^ And that.

What about this?

Asia Skyly.7198:

It is completely contradictory:
On one hand: “I did high level fractals for the incredible challenge, even when I knew the rewards were lousy.”

On the other hand" " I demand I be rewarded for all of the “work” and “money” I spent doing something I knew quite well had lousy rewards."

What about some thinking?

You got no title for doing higher level fractals – actually, kitten , you got nothing of perceptible worthiness. Those who did the very high level fractals, like everyone here underlines, was the pure challenge and fun time with something rather difficult ( nothing else in this game compares really ).
Now, suddenly, those who advanced to, let’s say, level 31 and those who advanced to, let’s say, level 70, are placed in the new system on equal footing, i.e. level 30. How is that fair, in any ridiculously stretched understandings of the word “fair” you may have in your dictionary?
Like I said above, some of people here are thinking only in perceptible things ( notably you ), while some other in both perceptible and non-perceptible ( me and those who did very high level fractals ). The reason why people demand some compensation is because they want they equally importnant, non-perceptible experiences compensated in the perceptible manner. Simple, I think.

In other words:

“I did 50+ Fractals knowing that there was no ‘tangible’ reward, just hard content and the feeling of accomplishment that comes with completing hard content. That’s enough for a true competitor like me. But now that I’ve completed that hard content, I demand a tangible reward! Otherwise, what was the point of spending all that time and energy trying to beat hard content if there was no reward!”

Your reasoning is entirely contradictory. My guess is because it’s dishonest. My guess is you did 50+ hoping to have a head start on the new stuff once those Fractals were opened and now you’re mad you wasted your time and have nothing to show for it. You always expected a reward and the challenge was secondary. And now you’re demanding that reward.

It’s the last time I am repeating this one to you: I’ve mentioned both PERCEPTIVE AND NON-PERCEPTIVE rewards. One can compensate for the other, i.e. if the non-perceptive one gets obliterated, the perceptive one can compensate for it. The activity of grinding shows the drive for perceptive awards only, whereas the activity of high fractal running shows the combined type. It’s basic psychology, really.

I agree—it is basic psychology:

“I expected to have a head start when they introduced 50+ Fractals. I was wrong and they aren’t introducing 50+ Fractals and now my time is wasted. I want a freebie, but worry they won’t give it to me considering I was trying to get a head start on content they didn’t want us doing. If I claim I was never interested in a reward in the first place, and was only doing it for the challenge, perhaps they’ll give me a reward anyway!”

Nah. Not buying it.

Also, what you mean to say is “tangible.” You’re talking about tangible rewards (i.e., Fractal skins) vs. intangible rewards (i.e., accomplishment having completed hard content).

The fact you are not buying it does not negate the possibility of it being true. Glad you finally admitted it is a possibility.
And yes, it is called a synonym. Thanks. I’ll use it for future reference.

It’s the last time I am repeating this one to you: I’ve mentioned both PERCEPTIVE AND NON-PERCEPTIVE rewards. One can compensate for the other, i.e. if the non-perceptive one gets obliterated, the perceptive one can compensate for it. The activity of grinding shows the drive for perceptive awards only, whereas the activity of high fractal running shows the combined type.

VOLKON.1290:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Kilandros.2098:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Ethics.4519:

Jski.6180:

Seeing that much ppl got to 50 on an exploitation that was fixed i think its ok to drop it down i am not sure about all the way to 30 but its still needed if your going to changes things up.

Then they should remove dungeon master and all gold + drops obtained from dungeons since a lot of people exploit dungeons.

^ And that.

What about this?

Asia Skyly.7198:

It is completely contradictory:
On one hand: “I did high level fractals for the incredible challenge, even when I knew the rewards were lousy.”

On the other hand" " I demand I be rewarded for all of the “work” and “money” I spent doing something I knew quite well had lousy rewards."

What about some thinking?

You got no title for doing higher level fractals – actually, kitten , you got nothing of perceptible worthiness. Those who did the very high level fractals, like everyone here underlines, was the pure challenge and fun time with something rather difficult ( nothing else in this game compares really ).
Now, suddenly, those who advanced to, let’s say, level 31 and those who advanced to, let’s say, level 70, are placed in the new system on equal footing, i.e. level 30. How is that fair, in any ridiculously stretched understandings of the word “fair” you may have in your dictionary?

Because you’re both being placed at the starting line of a new system with new challenges. Since no one has done it yet, in the new system we’re all equal (assuming you’ve made at least level 30, which I haven’t, so I’ll be one of the guys behind catching up…). Level 30 introduces new challenges that get more difficult the further along you go. You seem to want credit for beating challenges you haven’t seen yet based on content that didn’t include those challenges, is that correct?

I’ve answered your question, like hundreds of people here, in the post you’ve quoted. I do not want an award for something that wasn’t there in place. I want an award for something that was there, and still is until the new update, i.e. an ambition I and many other people had doing 70+ fractals for sheer experience. The rest went there only for rewards ( e.g. skins ), and I went there not only for the rewards that were crappy or non-existing, but aslo for the non-perceptible reward that was there, irrespective of the new system comming soon – the experience of doing very high level fractals. The new system obliterates that experience as it places those 30 fractal level guy and 70+ level guy at an equal footing.

Kilandros.2098:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Ethics.4519:

Jski.6180:

Seeing that much ppl got to 50 on an exploitation that was fixed i think its ok to drop it down i am not sure about all the way to 30 but its still needed if your going to changes things up.

Then they should remove dungeon master and all gold + drops obtained from dungeons since a lot of people exploit dungeons.

^ And that.

What about this?

Asia Skyly.7198:

It is completely contradictory:
On one hand: “I did high level fractals for the incredible challenge, even when I knew the rewards were lousy.”

On the other hand" " I demand I be rewarded for all of the “work” and “money” I spent doing something I knew quite well had lousy rewards."

What about some thinking?

You got no title for doing higher level fractals – actually, kitten , you got nothing of perceptible worthiness. Those who did the very high level fractals, like everyone here underlines, was the pure challenge and fun time with something rather difficult ( nothing else in this game compares really ).
Now, suddenly, those who advanced to, let’s say, level 31 and those who advanced to, let’s say, level 70, are placed in the new system on equal footing, i.e. level 30. How is that fair, in any ridiculously stretched understandings of the word “fair” you may have in your dictionary?
Like I said above, some of people here are thinking only in perceptible things ( notably you ), while some other in both perceptible and non-perceptible ( me and those who did very high level fractals ). The reason why people demand some compensation is because they want they equally importnant, non-perceptible experiences compensated in the perceptible manner. Simple, I think.

Ethics.4519:

Jski.6180:

Seeing that much ppl got to 50 on an exploitation that was fixed i think its ok to drop it down i am not sure about all the way to 30 but its still needed if your going to changes things up.

Then they should remove dungeon master and all gold + drops obtained from dungeons since a lot of people exploit dungeons.

^ And that.

slurpey.6014:

Let’s just reset the whole game while we at it. That gives a balance on every aspect since nothing remains

Haha, precisely that!:P

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Korossive.7085:

Agree on pvp rank comparison, heck, reset everyone to 30 too see how the community likes the game then.

^ That.

same with legendaries I mean common they’re to much Money based atm When will ppl get that they are currently taking away somthing from me I have worked for in this game. So why should I get over it? it’s just unfair as a fact!

That’s because some people believe in perceptible things, while the others both in perceptible and non-perceptible. Hence, they question your “dedication, effort, ambition” as something you have spent in the game, doing higher level fractals. They ask you for numbers, while they themselves play the game for the experience. Get over it, mate. At the same time, when they tell you “don’t give them any rewards for nothing”, they were the ones asking for the fractal weapons to be obtainable from lower fractal levels because they can’t be bothered doing some “tougher stuff”. Hypocrisy.

Korossive.7085:

Agree on pvp rank comparison, heck, reset everyone to 30 too see how the community likes the game then.

^ That.

Kilandros.2098:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Kilandros.2098:

I’m also against such a “reward” considering it’s unfair to newer players who were not around to run Fractals during the period when the Revive Orb trick was present.

What about “the newer people” who were not around various LS events and can’t get the past items ( e.g. Zephyrite helm ) now that they are gone? Should we reset the past LS content so the “status quo” is restored? What about “the newer people” who didn’t start playing the game since its premiere and couldn’t get all the past achievement points so the could have the rewards chests unlocked right now, like the others who? Should we reset all the achievement points so the “status quo” is restored?
Your logic is staggering.

It isn’t, actually. Has Anet retroactively given rewards for, say, Flame and Frost after the LS event ended? That’s essentially what you’re asking for. You’re asking for a reward that was not available in game when you completed the content. And yet you think it’s “logical” to compare to LS where the rewards are made plainly visible to those who choose to pursue them? You pursued 50+ Fractals knowing there was no special reward. Now you want one. A real comparison to LS would be for people who completed Flame and Frost and are now demanding an additional reward that was not available when they completed the content. And yes, I would be opposed to that additional reward as well.

Stop posting for a minute and really think about that. There is a difference that you’re choosing not to see.

Think for a second yourself ( I’ve seen you spam the same nonsense all over the many topics prior to their merger ) about the point that I’ve quoted of you:
“The rewards would not be fair because the newer players couldn’t have used the Revive Orb to advance to higher level fractals.”
Notice how you nowhere mentioned the things you are stating now. Now, knowing that, re-read my post again. It makes perfect sense when your “revive orb fairness” made none.

Ision.3207:

Extra rewards for having done high-level fractels before this patch?

ahahahaha

NO WAY.

And it would be totally undeserved if given.

Please Anet, no more “hand-outs” to the squeaky wheels that cry the loudest.

How ironic that the skin rewards cap at lvl 10 fractals now – precisely because of the laymen kids who cried for the skins they couldn’t get ’cos they were too lazy to do higher level fractals. Hypocrisy, gotta love it. Please, Anet, stop this madness.

Kilandros.2098:

I’m also against such a “reward” considering it’s unfair to newer players who were not around to run Fractals during the period when the Revive Orb trick was present.

What about “the newer people” who were not around various LS events and can’t get the past items ( e.g. Zephyrite helm ) now that they are gone? Should we reset the past LS content so the “status quo” is restored? What about “the newer people” who didn’t start playing the game since its premiere and couldn’t get all the past achievement points so the could have the rewards chests unlocked right now, like the others who did play the game from the very beginning? Should we reset all the achievement points so the “status quo” is restored?
Your logic is staggering.

Just a quick question: if one of my characters has a fractal level 70+, and the one I’m trying to make my “new main” – 25 – am I going to have an account-wide fractal level of 30 on all the characters, including the “new main”?

Kilandros.2098:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Kilandros.2098:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Kilandros.2098:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Kilandros.2098:

ozma.3498:

People who don’t think some kind of unique reward is justified should try to have some perspective. I’m having something that took literally hundreds of hours of my time removed from my account. I can’t even opt out of the leaderboards to keep my personal level. Hundreds of hours of effort is being removed, without anything I can do about it.

And the legendary comparison is completely valid. Ultimately what it comes down to is time invested -> goal reached -> result of goal being removed from your account. Getting fractal level 80 takes hundreds of hours – so does making a legendary. It confuses me why some people feel that one is no big deal while the other would be completely out of the question. They both take hundreds of hours – just because one is a skin and the other is a number doesn’t make it a completely different issue.

First of all, going from 30 to 48 is not losing “hundreds of hours,” so there’s that.

Secondly, I have no sympathy for anyone at level 80 Fractals. Anet made it quite clear they didn’t intend for us to progress past 50. You were essentially betting that Anet would one day open up 50+ and you would have an advantage. The flipside however was the risk that they would not and that would be wasted time. You made a risky bet that that progress was worth the time and you lost. It’s really that simple.

And no, the fact that Fractals and Legendaries both require a time commitment is not persuasive. Over the course of my life I have spent a great deal of time in the bathroom, but I don’t consider that time equal to time spent, say, at a job. The mere fact that two things both occupy time does not make them the same. In Fractals I could spend a lot of time being carried by my group to higher levels. With Legendaries I could spend very little time converting my RL cash to gems to gold. They are different. Get over it.

they didn’t make it clear when I hit lvl 80 in 2012 there wasn’t a single answer if 80 is the cap or not not a single dev post. they never said it before I reached 80 we shoulnd’t go there we shoulnd’t invest our Money in rez orbs… not a single post or answer that they consider us exploiters till no.. sooo… don’t tell things that arn’t true

It was absolutely clear to me and many others in 2012 that Anet intended to keep players out of 50+. Rez Orbs/Pets were a way to get past unsurvivable agony. Most people knew exactly what the design was, and understood that Orbs were a yet-unclosed (now closed) loophole. You took a risk and it didn’t pay off. You need to accept that.

You are missing the point that the majority of the nowadays MMO players simply don’t understand. There are other people, to whom grinding/farming is not the point: what they care about is simply what the demanding and difficult things that the game has to offer. And ANet made it clear: you could go past the 50 level to actually find something like that. People couldn’t care less about some hypothetical future awards. So no, no one took risk and that we have to accept. What you and the rest of the laymen have to accept is the fact that, just like with the WvW ranks, or achievement points, there are ambitious people who aim higher than the majority. And if they did something that hasn’t been excluded from the game by the devs until now, they didn’t “exploit” anything. What they did is they sought for the only available challenge in this game: high level fractals.
That is something that deserves rewarding, especially if the laymasses are to get the equal footing with the hardworkers now. Fairness requires rewards. As simple as that.

As someone who is at 60+, I can tell you that the only “difficult” part of leveling past 50 was getting the right group who knew how and when to get past jade maw’s agony.

Ironic use of “fairness” by the way, considering Anet had to patch to remove the method used to get past 50.

And you could find those people amongst me and you, and those who cared, and not the laymen. That’s the difference: the attitude.

So if it was actually all about the “difficulty” and the “challenge” as you so emotionally put it, why are you now begging and pleading for a reward?

Maybe because what I cared so much about, as you ironically put it, is now turned into oblivion?

Kilandros.2098:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Kilandros.2098:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Kilandros.2098:

ozma.3498:

People who don’t think some kind of unique reward is justified should try to have some perspective. I’m having something that took literally hundreds of hours of my time removed from my account. I can’t even opt out of the leaderboards to keep my personal level. Hundreds of hours of effort is being removed, without anything I can do about it.

And the legendary comparison is completely valid. Ultimately what it comes down to is time invested -> goal reached -> result of goal being removed from your account. Getting fractal level 80 takes hundreds of hours – so does making a legendary. It confuses me why some people feel that one is no big deal while the other would be completely out of the question. They both take hundreds of hours – just because one is a skin and the other is a number doesn’t make it a completely different issue.

First of all, going from 30 to 48 is not losing “hundreds of hours,” so there’s that.

Secondly, I have no sympathy for anyone at level 80 Fractals. Anet made it quite clear they didn’t intend for us to progress past 50. You were essentially betting that Anet would one day open up 50+ and you would have an advantage. The flipside however was the risk that they would not and that would be wasted time. You made a risky bet that that progress was worth the time and you lost. It’s really that simple.

And no, the fact that Fractals and Legendaries both require a time commitment is not persuasive. Over the course of my life I have spent a great deal of time in the bathroom, but I don’t consider that time equal to time spent, say, at a job. The mere fact that two things both occupy time does not make them the same. In Fractals I could spend a lot of time being carried by my group to higher levels. With Legendaries I could spend very little time converting my RL cash to gems to gold. They are different. Get over it.

they didn’t make it clear when I hit lvl 80 in 2012 there wasn’t a single answer if 80 is the cap or not not a single dev post. they never said it before I reached 80 we shoulnd’t go there we shoulnd’t invest our Money in rez orbs… not a single post or answer that they consider us exploiters till no.. sooo… don’t tell things that arn’t true

It was absolutely clear to me and many others in 2012 that Anet intended to keep players out of 50+. Rez Orbs/Pets were a way to get past unsurvivable agony. Most people knew exactly what the design was, and understood that Orbs were a yet-unclosed (now closed) loophole. You took a risk and it didn’t pay off. You need to accept that.

You are missing the point that the majority of the nowadays MMO players simply don’t understand. There are other people, to whom grinding/farming is not the point: what they care about is simply what the demanding and difficult things that the game has to offer. And ANet made it clear: you could go past the 50 level to actually find something like that. People couldn’t care less about some hypothetical future awards. So no, no one took risk and that we have to accept. What you and the rest of the laymen have to accept is the fact that, just like with the WvW ranks, or achievement points, there are ambitious people who aim higher than the majority. And if they did something that hasn’t been excluded from the game by the devs until now, they didn’t “exploit” anything. What they did is they sought for the only available challenge in this game: high level fractals.
That is something that deserves rewarding, especially if the laymasses are to get the equal footing with the hardworkers now. Fairness requires rewards. As simple as that.

As someone who is at 60+, I can tell you that the only “difficult” part of leveling past 50 was getting the right group who knew how and when to get past jade maw’s agony.

Ironic use of “fairness” by the way, considering Anet had to patch to remove the method used to get past 50.

And you could find those people amongst me and you, and those who cared, and not the laymen. That’s the difference: the attitude.

Kilandros.2098:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Kilandros.2098:

ozma.3498:

People who don’t think some kind of unique reward is justified should try to have some perspective. I’m having something that took literally hundreds of hours of my time removed from my account. I can’t even opt out of the leaderboards to keep my personal level. Hundreds of hours of effort is being removed, without anything I can do about it.

And the legendary comparison is completely valid. Ultimately what it comes down to is time invested -> goal reached -> result of goal being removed from your account. Getting fractal level 80 takes hundreds of hours – so does making a legendary. It confuses me why some people feel that one is no big deal while the other would be completely out of the question. They both take hundreds of hours – just because one is a skin and the other is a number doesn’t make it a completely different issue.

First of all, going from 30 to 48 is not losing “hundreds of hours,” so there’s that.

Secondly, I have no sympathy for anyone at level 80 Fractals. Anet made it quite clear they didn’t intend for us to progress past 50. You were essentially betting that Anet would one day open up 50+ and you would have an advantage. The flipside however was the risk that they would not and that would be wasted time. You made a risky bet that that progress was worth the time and you lost. It’s really that simple.

And no, the fact that Fractals and Legendaries both require a time commitment is not persuasive. Over the course of my life I have spent a great deal of time in the bathroom, but I don’t consider that time equal to time spent, say, at a job. The mere fact that two things both occupy time does not make them the same. In Fractals I could spend a lot of time being carried by my group to higher levels. With Legendaries I could spend very little time converting my RL cash to gems to gold. They are different. Get over it.

they didn’t make it clear when I hit lvl 80 in 2012 there wasn’t a single answer if 80 is the cap or not not a single dev post. they never said it before I reached 80 we shoulnd’t go there we shoulnd’t invest our Money in rez orbs… not a single post or answer that they consider us exploiters till no.. sooo… don’t tell things that arn’t true

It was absolutely clear to me and many others in 2012 that Anet intended to keep players out of 50+. Rez Orbs/Pets were a way to get past unsurvivable agony. Most people knew exactly what the design was, and understood that Orbs were a yet-unclosed (now closed) loophole. You took a risk and it didn’t pay off. You need to accept that.

You are missing the point that the majority of the nowadays MMO players simply don’t understand. There are other people, to whom grinding/farming is not the point: what they care about is simply the demanding and difficult things that the game has to offer. And ANet made it clear: you could go past the 50 level to actually find something like that. People couldn’t care less about some hypothetical future awards. So no, no one took risk that we have to accept now. What you and the rest of the laymen have to accept is the fact that, just like with the WvW ranks, or achievement points, there are ambitious people who aim higher than the majority. And if they did something that hasn’t been excluded from the game by the devs until now, they didn’t “exploit” anything. What they did is they sought for the only available challenge in this game: high level fractals.
That is something that deserves rewarding, especially if the laymasses are to get the equal footing with the hardworkers now. Fairness requires rewards. As simple as that.

No wonder they are doing that, this game is full of “I’m lazy but I want that thing, too!” people who didn’t care about the fractals until they realised they could get some fancy looking skins that the people who spent hours/months of doing fractals actually got them. It’s becoming more and more clear that this game is taking the following direction: make everything accessible to the masses, even if those masses lack the skill, or motivation, or interest in the things whose purpose is to be demanding and rewarding at the same time, and show only “Buy this for me, papa! I want it bad!” attitude.

People who think there shouldn’t be any award for those of us who got above 30th level – use the reason you were equipped with as a human being.
The thing is: people do not complain about the fact of resetting the level, they complain because they are taken away all the effort, time and money that they spent on the only demanding thing this game had to offer – very high level fractals.
Like someone above stated, it all depends on the perspective. If you want to take part in the discussion, you have to be able to try to take someone else’s perspective.
Leaderboards – ok, Anet forces us into them, and because all have to have equal footing, we are put back into level 30. That’s ok.
The fact that we don’t get any compensation for having something taken away from us, something we spent plenty of time, money, sweat and blood on, is not fair.
As simple as that. There is not a single one argument against rewarding players who reached levels 30+ of the fractals.
To be more precise, this is something that Anet has to introduce to those people whose time, money, effort is being “reset”.
As simple as that.

daimasei.4091:

I could easily play for another 1-2 years without an expansion (and without any new content).
But again. I’m not the typical “rush to the end, whine about lack of content, never play it again” kind of player.

There are always a couple of groups of players, some of them are easily satisfied and undemanding, others are demanding and like the rewards systems, the others are the typical farmers etc. It’s difficult to satisfy each one of the groups.
But the thing here is, the LS would appear to be something at the core of the game, something that devs are extremely proud of. The truth is, and it’s not any kind of an opinion, that the LS has been more than disappointing. Why is this a fact and not an opinion? Logic: if 1) a 14-day long bi-weekly content has its dialogue and a story at the complexity level of a 10-year old child + 2) it can be completed by some chilled out folk, without any rushing, within the 3-5 hours time, then there is clearly something wrong with this “amazing” LS.
Sure, the idea of the LS is indeed amazing, for which I am grateful to ArenaNet. Nevertheless, quality-wise, there’s some vast improvement needed if they really want people to be satisfied with it. Notice that I am strictly referring to PvE/LS content, not WvW or sPvP.

Best regards

Zanshin.5379:

I don’t think they have the manpower to create a big expansion while releasing living stories every two weeks.

Looking at the quality ( terrible ) of the LS they release fortnightly, I’d be surprised if most of them didn’t work on something else at the same time.

Ah, my apologies, I misunderstood your original post.

But being an actuary I’m a bit tight when it comes down to claims, I tend to expect very solid evidence when someone claims something is a general consensus. So far, we really can’t tell if GW2 is disappointing because judging by its current revenue, it doesn’t look bad, and the only data we have on the number of players also says it isn’t. Afterall, why would people play and pay for something they find bad or boring?

Also, forums, fansites etc aren’t …. valid sometimes. For example, just purely looking at how much people claim WoW, and to an even further extent, RuneScape, sucks, you would think they would be dead games by now. But MoP’s sales ranking that high on Amazon and RuneScape’s 50k (constantly over 200k during 2007) concurrent users despite being that old of a game running on Java seems to state otherwise.

That’s ok, but I also may have made my initial post more clear now that I’m reading it again. Pardon me and the whole misunderstanding.

With regards to DATA, I thought that the only info that was avaialable to us regarding the possible number of people playing this game was the “box sales”. What I would expect to have is the “current active accounts number”, or “concurrent logins in the game number” during week and weekend. This would let us somehow decide what the present and the future of this game is.
Nevertheless, I did find a piece of information on reddit, in one of the posts, regarding the “logins in GW2 on xfire during weekend” or something like that. This info was taken during the first 2 weeks of the game start and during the 2 weeks during this September, if I remember correctly. I am very well aware of the drawbacks of this kind of information, e.g. 1) the premiere of the game always attracts a great deal of enthusiasts, greater than any other time, 2) xfire, altough very popular, is not used by all the GW2 players, or possibly even the majority of GW2 players ( including me ). Still, the numbers show only around a couple of thousand of people playing it at the same time around the world during September and around a few hundred thousand people playing during the first 2 weeks since the game’s start. The data is not conclusive, indeed, but the general feeling I’m getting from a wide variety of sources, including people in the game itself ( I was a member of a couple of international guilds, and each one of them lost around 45-65 per cent of people approx. 1 year after the release of the game ).
Don’t misunderstand me, I’ve always been a great fan of GW2, and still play it rather often, but I do miss the diversity, the complexity and the… greatness… of GW1. It was something special and until this day GW1 is one of the best selling PC games ever. I simply miss the direction that GW1 took. With regards to the LS, shortly – I think that the idea of the LS that the devs had in mind was great, but the actual embodiment of this idea in the game has been mostly failure, unforunately.

Best regards

Xae Isareth.1364:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Xae Isareth.1364:

Corpus Christi.2057:

Corpus Christi.2057:

There are hundreds of reasons why this game is such a disappointment, generally speaking – hence so many different responses here.
Let’s face it: the general consensus is that this game is… above all… boring.
Nothing more to add.

A whole great deal to be changed and added, on the other hand, by Anet to actually prevent this game from its premature death.

Hence my post. On the other hand, I do not actually understand the idea of your post if you clearly state that it’s the very place ( thread ) where to say ‘why people stop playing GW2’, and that’s precisely what I stated in my post.

Where did you state this in your post?

Also, when you claim that something is a ‘general consensus’ it implies you are talking about the whole population, not just the sample. Hence why I pointed out your flaw of assuming the sample represents the whole population when its clearly a biased sample.

Where did I state ‘why do people stop playing this game’? I think you should re-read my post.
The fact that it is a biased sample does not mean that the general consensus ( majority of the population, not the whole population ) has to differ. The general consensus may be exactly the same as the one represented by the very biased sample you are talking about. Still, like I said beforehand, I do not understand the discussion you are trying to conduct.
I clearly did what the thread asked me to do: I pointed out to the reasons which make people stop playing this game.
I am not stating they have to do, but as Anet is failing at putting forward their LS idea into life, the expansions would seem like a better idea to introduce the things I mentioned ( e.g. thanks to a greater amount of time that would be spent on polishing the things, which cannot really be done, and we see this with the poor LS bi-weekly updates ).
Best regards

Apologies if I’ being stupid, but your argument doesn’t flow in my head.

Your initial argument to me was that since theres so many posts about why GW2 is bad in this thread, I countered it with that the thread represents a biased sample, and thus your argument doesn’t hold water.

Now your argument is that you were just stating why you stopped playing the game. That wasn’t even part of the initial argument and doesn’t make any sense in this context.

As for your second point. It doesn’t mean the general consensus has to differ, just like if you go into a meeting of the local communist party and ask them about their views on capitalism, the responses might not differ from what people generally think of capitalism, but that doesn’t make it valid sample.

I don;t quite understand where the rest of your argument sprouted from considering I was only debating about that one post.

Your initial response to my post, if I understand it correctly, read that my logic is flawed as I assumed that the “general consensus here is that the game is a disappointment, which we can see from a wide range of responses we got in this thread”. My response to that is plain simple: you misunderstood my initial post. What I said in my initial post ( not a response to you ) is that the general consensus ( not based on, as you rightly pointed out, the biased sample in this thread; but, in my mind, on what we hear from people all over different forums, websties, media etc. ) over the game is that it has been a disappointment. Therefore, your response with regards to my alleged “flaw in logic” is a misunderstanding of my initial post.
Hence, all the discussion that followed unnecessarily.
Hope we understand each other perfectly now.

Best regards