Guild Wars 2

It was announced as “this summer” in the last meeting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLslqhBn3PU at the 25:35 mark.

Keeper Of Traken.6829:

Although most posts here make clear that a “Legendary Chest” would be way too high a price to pay, it seems as though everyone agrees “something” would be appropriate, and most probably that “nothing”, or very little, would not. So it is really a matter of how high a value an individual might place on a given activity, and the actual real value of the item being asked in return.

I am a paying customer, who even occasionally buys gems for real world $$, for no other reason than just because I enjoy playing the game. The next time I am in my local Target store, and I reach for a Guild Wars 2 Gem Card on the shelf, I will stop and think first. Will I think “I missed out on that Beta, and got banned for no real reason, and could lose all access to GW2 at any time on a whim, and all I had done would be lost, and no one seemed to care, should I buy these gems ?” Or will I think, “Wow, I had problems, but they all got cleared up quickly, and they took care of me, and made it all right, and today I want more gems to add two more character slots!”.

Now what was asked in return ? What is a Legendary Weapon? A string of ones and zeros assigned to my account, that in some circumstances, causes specials animations to be displayed in the user’s client, to make the user feel happy about themselves and playing the game.

I don’t believe a string of in-game ones and zeros versus the happiness of real world customers and their spending dollars is that unreasonable a request. Nor was it my only request, nor necessarily was it the true intent of my request. A discussion about whether there actually was an issue, whether it needs to be addressed, and what is appropriate level of response will be, is fine.

But thank you, I do appreciate to see how others view the game, and I am happy that I can post my thoughts and receive feedback..

you need to look at it this way… a legendary is roughly 4-500 dollars to buy using gems… was access to the BETA worth 4-500 dollars… hardly. at most I would consider asking for an ascended chest for one piece of equipment of my choice, and thats a BIIIIIIIIG maybe. To me the loss of access might be worth an exotic or 2… at most. And lets examine the paying customer cliche here… you paid 50-60 for the game… got countless hours of entertainment well above and beyond 60 dollars worth. the fact you bought gems does account for something, but not a legendary, which is why I included an ascended chest in the mix at the high end of the scale.

I know in fractals they dont stack very much anymore, but in dungeons, stacking is still a valid and mainstream way to do things in PUGS… usually guild runs are not as stacky, due to everyone tends to know each others playstyles and how best to compliment them. But in a PUG, I still see alot of people cry for stacking.

cranos.5913:

Astralporing.1957:

cranos.5913:

Windsagio.1340:

I think the end answer, if I’m perfectly frank is “This game just isn’t for really hardcore dungeon types”.

Prob not, but there’s no reason for challenging content to be only for really hardcore players.

Except that most of people that want this kind of content do want it to be for hardcore players (or at least as hardcore as they perceive themselves to be).

Depends on what you call casual and hardcore. FFXIV for example has this thing called “trials”, basically it’s single raid boss instances with a possible hard mode attached to it. It’s casual in the way that it doesn’t take hours upon hours to complete, but still sufficiently hard to provide a challenge. While that obviously doesn’t reach all players in the game (but let’s be fair, no content does), it would still reach a much broader audience than your 4 hour 40man raids. It’s also something I could see these “guild raids” from the CDI become btw.

Now I’m not saying I necessarily want this type of instance. It’s just an example of raid type gameplay that would be played by more than the “1%”.

I think Anet attempted this idea already, They added a star to some of the content that you had completed in the LS so that you could go back and try it on a harder difficulty iirc. As to whether it was more of a challenge for anyone or not, I will leave that to you all to determine. I myself thought it wasnt that much harder.

cranos.5913:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

wasnt trying to compare combat system to combat system, my point was more towards Sony focusing on the needs of the minority which complained more then those that were happy with the game in its current state. they catered to that crowd and it cost them their game. this has nothing to do with the playstyles of the 2 games being discussed and more towards who Anet should be keeping happy if they want continue maintaining its current player base. Cuz what sony did was gave in to the demands of a vocal few, and it cost them the majority. Keep in mind here, I am expressing MY opinion as to why I think its a good or bad idea to add another gamestyle to the game. This is what I think and why I think it. Ill wager there are a lot of people who feel the same way I do about it, they are just not as vocal as those not happy wit hthe game cuz they are well… happy with it.

Fair enough, I misunderstood then. For 3 years they almost solely catered to the casual PvEr. They didn’t start focusing on the hardcore when fractals came out or after aetherpath or the fractured patch (only things we got in 3 years btw), so from past experience we can clearly see who their main audience is. Just because they add maybe 1 or 2 new instances in an actual expansion won’t suddenly make them turn 180 degrees and start catering to the hardcore. Your worrying about anet’s focus basically comes out of nowhere.

Right, and I understand where their focus is. But the arguement at hand is “why dont they do more for hardcore and why not introduce raids?” I was attempting to show justification for them not to was all. I feel that a new mode would not be as beneficial as it would be detrimental to the game is all. Numerous times Ive explained why, for reference as to why it would be detrimental at least, I feel this way about it. It is for Anet to determine the rationale and ultimate acceptance or denial of the topic in question.

P.S. sorry for the late post on this was busy this weekend and didnt have a chance to respond sooner.

in fact SWG has a grassroots EMU project currently playable and under construction at www.swgemu.com. goes to show what a dedicated player base can do when they love a game and want to return it to its orignal glory…

cranos.5913:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

I wont be responding to you anymore Dinks… keep it friendly plz. I will however present my view on things whether you like it or not. I really dont care at this point what your opinion is, cuz you seem more interested in bashing then having a discussion. now to move on…

Windsagio, you may ultimately be correct in your opinion, but This is just the way I see things potentially happening. I saw this exact scenario in SWG, they came out with a combat upgrade to even the classes out, it failed, the smaller more vocal minority pestered SOE to the point they gave in and came out with the NGE (new game enhancements) patch, and from there, they lost memberships at an alarming rate to the point they instituted a magic the gathering cardgame style game into the mix out of desperation which ultimately was a cash for cards for ingame items type deal. they introduced an alpha class and gave it to everyone to try to recover players, which ultimately drove the remaining player base out of the game. at everyturn in this game they announcent staff reductions which further was used to excuse the lack of new content and poor quality of the content they DID manage to release.

I dont want to see that mistake made here in GW2.

How does this relate to instances? The combat system is fine, more than fine actually. It’s awesome. The ONLY thing that would change is that people that want more instanced content actually get it.

wasnt trying to compare combat system to combat system, my point was more towards Sony focusing on the needs of the minority which complained more then those that were happy with the game in its current state. they catered to that crowd and it cost them their game. this has nothing to do with the playstyles of the 2 games being discussed and more towards who Anet should be keeping happy if they want continue maintaining its current player base. Cuz what sony did was gave in to the demands of a vocal few, and it cost them the majority. Keep in mind here, I am expressing MY opinion as to why I think its a good or bad idea to add another gamestyle to the game. This is what I think and why I think it. Ill wager there are a lot of people who feel the same way I do about it, they are just not as vocal as those not happy wit hthe game cuz they are well… happy with it.

cranos.5913:

Dinks.2478:

Not one single person in this entire thread has asked for a gear grind. We asked for raids. They are not the same thing. And adding stuff to a game doesn’t drop the quality of the game.

Because it’s suddenly called a “raid” instead of a dungeon ppl suddenly go absolutely apekitten over gear grind, how it will ruin the game, etc. It makes 0 sense.

This whole game is about collecting skins. They won’t revise their reward system just because party sizes doubled.

I think it has the potential to go the other way… this is the “Casual Gamers” game so to speak, increasing the difficulty starts to make the turn towards the hardcore players game. most people just dont play the higher difficulty content due to lack of time/real lives/ or what have you. adding more difficult and time consuming content in this way just means theyve added more content some players will never enjoy or use. All thats left is the same old content they have been running through for years now, and wont be satisfied by it. It very likely could drive some or a good portion offolks away from the game when other games may offer more of what they want to play…

I wont be responding to you anymore Dinks… keep it friendly plz. I will however present my view on things whether you like it or not. I really dont care at this point what your opinion is, cuz you seem more interested in bashing then having a discussion. now to move on…

Windsagio, you may ultimately be correct in your opinion, but This is just the way I see things potentially happening. I saw this exact scenario in SWG, they came out with a combat upgrade to even the classes out, it failed, the smaller more vocal minority pestered SOE to the point they gave in and came out with the NGE (new game enhancements) patch, and from there, they lost memberships at an alarming rate to the point they instituted a magic the gathering cardgame style game into the mix out of desperation which ultimately was a cash for cards for ingame items type deal. they introduced an alpha class and gave it to everyone to try to recover players, which ultimately drove the remaining player base out of the game. at everyturn in this game they announcent staff reductions which further was used to excuse the lack of new content and poor quality of the content they DID manage to release.

I dont want to see that mistake made here in GW2.

CureForLiving.5360:

timmyf.1490:

Windsagio.1340:

You slipped in the reqiurement for more players again at the end, lol

I’m gonna bet you that far fewer people would object to extremely difficult 5 player instanced content (noting some would of course) than object to multi-group content.

The problem is going from 5 to 10, really? How about 8?

Honestly, I’m fine with 5, but it’d be really nice to get more of my guild in the same instance. More than five isn’t a “requirement lol,” it’s an example.

From what I remember from my WoW days 10 is a decent number of group content. Mind you combat is very different so probably not applicable.

CorrynnStarr.7942:

Look, Raids have their place, just not in this game. It will splinter resources ultimately dropping the game quality, and fundamentally change this game into a gear grind.

It might end up splitting resources, but raids do not necessarily have to be gear grind. It could be a skin grind.

CorrynnStarr.7942:

simply put, as game quality declines and as player base declines as a result of it, you are left wit ha skeleton staff that would have to take simpler methods of doing things, which boils down to them taking the path of least resistance and going with a gear grind.

So your statement is based on the idea that raids will kill GW2.

it very well could be a skin grind, but the endpoint is still the same…

And yes I think it likely would start killing the game, but not in an immediate fashion. I think what would happen is, this would be introduced, a small drop off of players will begin, which after about 6 months would start snowballing, resulting in less revenue income for anet, which would respond with staff reductions which would equate to less time spent on the game. this cycle would perpetuate itself to the point that the only viable option the team would have left to their advantage, being to start dropping better gear to keep interest up, thus beggining the great gear grind… as always, this is just my Opinion, but I think a reasonable and likely one it is.

timmyf.1490:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

and fundamentally change this game into a gear grind.

I want Ascended to remain the highest-tier stat set in the game, even with the introduction of raids. Why do you think raids would fundamentally change the game into a gear grind?

simply put, as game quality declines and as player base declines as a result of it, you are left wit ha skeleton staff that would have to take simpler methods of doing things, which boils down to them taking the path of least resistance and going with a gear grind.

im just more worried that they are rehashing content and calling it an expansion… the 2 are the same minus the visibility factor. nothing new there at all…

Look, Raids have their place, just not in this game. It will splinter resources ultimately dropping the game quality, and fundamentally change this game into a gear grind. Add the fact that it is a small minority of people here in this game wanting this type of content serves to confirm it is not the right thing for Anet to do. do we kitten off 40% of the population to cater to 10%? Not likely… their revenues will drop right along with players, and you will end up with a 10% population based game mode, and a game in the red with developement layoffs eventually killing it like SWG did. as more layoffs occur, your preciuos raid content will suffer a slow death.

Dinks… AGAIN, and for the last time, your assumption no adverse effects would be caused is not correct. IT DRAINS RESOURCES NEEDED ELSEWHERE AND ALREADY DEVOTED ELSEWHERE. It is extremely labor intensive to implement such a game mode on to a team that is already overwhelmed. It will cause already low numbers to be even lower by dragging people away from the already established content. There is only so many times you can split a hair…

nope, not gonna fly here… you dont assume some one is violent just because they have a strong opinion against something you like or want. We have already explained the reason for the dislike. it wasnt intended for the game to begin with and it would sap resources that are already devoted to current content starved developement.

considering this isnt and never was meant to be a raiding game…and what violence are you saying exists?

Dinks.2478:

Yeah. best community in MMO’s my kitten . Bunch of selfish crybabies who threaten to quit if a gamemode they don’t personally want to play is added. I say good riddance.

pot…. meet kettle!

these game modes are ESTABLISHED and been a part of the game since launch, raids are not. you are suggesting a totally new idea and whining cuz it isnt as popular as you want it to be?

timmyf.1490:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

timmyf.1490:

I can’t believe people are literally suggesting they’ll quit if ArenaNet builds content they aren’t personally interested in playing. This blows my mind.

It shouldnt, cuz people play games to have fun and feel a sense of accomplishment… if they arent getting it, or fearful they wont get it due to lack of developement, then they will consider leaving for another game that does. Just as you are fighting for your emphasis on a certain kind of content, so they too are fighting for theirs.

There’s tons of players who don’t do dungeons and Fractals and WvW and PvP. They haven’t quit yet. Why would raids make them quit now?

as i just said, adding a new mode will take away from developement of their current prefered mode, making them feel more inclined to go elsewhere for their fun.

timmyf.1490:

I can’t believe people are literally suggesting they’ll quit if ArenaNet builds content they aren’t personally interested in playing. This blows my mind.

It shouldnt, cuz people play games to have fun and feel a sense of accomplishment… if they arent getting it, or fearful they wont get it due to lack of developement, then they will consider leaving for another game that does. Just as you are fighting for your emphasis on a certain kind of content, so they too are fighting for theirs.

timmyf.1490:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

Ill say it again. creating yet another game mode only serves to divide the number of players away from already established modes, and would weaken the content to the point like when we had separated servers. people flocked to one type of server and the other servers were so dismal in players that not all the content could be accomplished on certain servers due to “diversity” We all know what happened then, servers died and it all had to be revamped. when we spread ourselves out to thin, it becomes a chore to do already existing content. This game was not meant to be a traditional “Raid” type game. Adding a multitude of game modes would just serve to frustrate us in the end and lose players.

Think of it like a Pie… we have 8 slices in a normal pie, able to fully feed 8 people 1 slice. the more people you have, the thinner the slices become, and the less amount each person gets to have. eventually the slices will be small enuff to the point people will not compete for their slices and just go somewhere else to get a bigger piece of pie.

Its nothing personal against raids, its just we will spread ourselves out to far and the game will feel empty and un-enjoyable. which brings me back to why servers died…

We better not add new maps in the Maguuma Jungle, then. It’ll just pull people away from Dry Top and Silverwastes.

thats exactly my point…. how many people play in queensdale after lvl 10 hmmm? how many stick around in wayfarer foot hills after you have leveld a bit? As it stands currently, we are all pretty much content hungry and stay on the new content unless we are leveling a new toon. Any other diversity would only serve to split us up even further making the game feel lonely. In the last 4 weeks I have spent an incredible amount of time gaining 100% map completion on 5 toons… In my journey thru all the areas, I was lucky to see 1-2 other people in any given area I was working on at the time.

Right now the majority of the people playing are doing 1 of 6 things…. fractals, dungeons, world boss training, leveling a new toon, wvw/pvp or silverwastes. the more things you add to the game in terms of game modes, the less and less the other modes will have to work with. Your map theory is a wash as those already doing the mapping are gonna continue mapping in the new map content. You arent taking from any other categories, and those that do swap… do so temporarily, then back to wvw/pvp/dungeons or whatever.

That was one thing i really noticed Kodiak, I saw alot oftimes where I placed AOE on an enemy to spread between 3-4 foes, and some would actually dodge out of the aoe field or single attacks. Everywhere else A mob just mindlessly does whatever it can to stay on you in melee range reguardless of the amount of damage it takes. the only few exceptions are the moas, they actually try ti run from you for a few seconds when their health drops low… Its nice to start to see smarter mobs in this regards.

Ill say it again. creating yet another game mode only serves to divide the number of players away from already established modes, and would weaken the content to the point like when we had separated servers. people flocked to one type of server and the other servers were so dismal in players that not all the content could be accomplished on certain servers due to “diversity” We all know what happened then, servers died and it all had to be revamped. when we spread ourselves out to thin, it becomes a chore to do already existing content. This game was not meant to be a traditional “Raid” type game. Adding a multitude of game modes would just serve to frustrate us in the end and lose players.

Think of it like a Pie… we have 8 slices in a normal pie, able to fully feed 8 people 1 slice. the more people you have, the thinner the slices become, and the less amount each person gets to have. eventually the slices will be small enuff to the point people will not compete for their slices and just go somewhere else to get a bigger piece of pie.

Its nothing personal against raids, its just we will spread ourselves out to far and the game will feel empty and un-enjoyable. which brings me back to why servers died…

Dinks.2478:

ITT: People who don’t like raids so don’t think other people who do should be allowed to have them. They say this game has the best community but all it has is selfish people who want everybody to play the way they do and to hell with everybody else. You won’t be forced to raid if they add it just like you’re not forced to dungeon, pvp or WvW. Stop being so selfish and being all “No, they shouldn’t add this”. Adding more options to a game can never do harm.

your assumption is not the general consensus here… and you are wrong, in order to do high end legendary weapons (which is a big part of the PVE experience) you are required to do a bit of dungeoning, and in the past when it was still in the game, you had to map complete every WVWVW and PVP area maps. So yes, we/they are forced to do most aspects of the game in order to fully enjoy the one they want to play most. and finally, adding more game options really doesnt do much other then to divide an already otherwise divided community in regards that it will just take from the other 3 modes and make thier overall groups smaller as a 4th is created. less players in more areas = empty feeling game most dont want to play in. We saw alot of servers dying from lack of participation on them, we dont need a repeat.

jealy… pffft.

this is what… its up!
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/closed-beta-testing-on-may-26/

Looks like closed BETA is the big extra cool thing they are announcing!

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/closed-beta-testing-on-may-26/

hate to break it to you guys, but this type of thing happens in ALOT of games… RTS’s = new map, start gathering resources from scratch… FPS start specializing weapons and gear after your “prestige”, MMO’s = game reset when major patches/features install so you can work through the new material. This isnt a new thing, nor is it a surprise. Its how alot of games choose to do replayability.

choovanski.5462:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

choovanski.5462:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

choovanski.5462:

if they don’t grandfather my 7 geared 80s i will just quit the game. i hate pve, and only wvw and pvp. previously i was able to gear and build my characters from doing just those. if all my progress is removed and i have to do awful boring pve to get my builds back I’ll just quit. it’s a lot of wasted time, and it’s anet basically spitting in my face.

NPR was awful, but at least i could use all the skill point scrolls from wvw and pvp to unlock traits. being forced to pve, wow so fun.

so sounds to me like your gonna throw a tantrum and toss out countless hours of fun cuz you wont spend a few hours running around hitting your f key to commune with a skill point location or kill some simple mobs that take less than 30 seconds to kill… hmmm? glad people like you dont run the country… oh wait….

it’s a video game. it’s supposed to be fun. most of my characters have close to 0% map completion so that’s a lot of walking. so, over 7+ hours of boredom to get my characters to the point where they are right now. I’m just not interested.

I’ve been playing Black Desert Online and really enjoying it. being forced to do pointless unfun pve to get things back that they have taken from me back, combined with bad pvp matchmaking, perma stealth, boring LS updates, and other issues i have with the game are enough to get me to quit. straw that breaks the camel’s back.

and as for your weird politics comment, seeing as im a neo-marxist with a degree in philosophy people like me definitely don’t run whatever country you are from.

look bud… clearly you dont like this game so why are you here? If another MMO has all you want like you claim, then go there and play the game you like, quit wasting your time here, nothing more needs to be said. Your degrees mean squat here bub, I dont care if your stephen hawking either.

i think you need to take a relaxing bath and calm down.

buddy, I did that loooooooong ago… why you still here? go play your black desert game man, and quit hatin on this game cuz it isnt catered to you.

Daddar.5971:

spoj.9672:

Except i dont think its fair that someone is able to work on unlocking their elite specs if they havent done enough hero challenges to completely unlock the core specs. Thus a debt is needed. Its essentially saying they never have to complete those extra skill challenges (they arent complete on the map but they may aswell be because you got free hero points).

And you are completely misunderstanding me on my other points. Dont really know how to explain it any other way. I know exactly how they want things to work. You repeating those to me has no relevance.

AGAIN, the point is that the system announced will privilege PvE world completion over other forms of gameplay. I’m not asking that others reach my number of WvW ranks, so why should I be asked to reach their number of ‘skill challenges’?

Not that it matters a whole lot now cuz they recently changed it, but it used to be we were FORCED to go into WvWvW to get our 100% map completion to make legendary weapons. also to fulfill all the achievement for jumping puzzles we had to brave through getting ganked at puzzles choke points to get credit for a PVE reward. We are all sooooo sorry you have to experience a different aspect off the game to get the content you want. /sarcasm off

choovanski.5462:

CorrynnStarr.7942:

choovanski.5462:

if they don’t grandfather my 7 geared 80s i will just quit the game. i hate pve, and only wvw and pvp. previously i was able to gear and build my characters from doing just those. if all my progress is removed and i have to do awful boring pve to get my builds back I’ll just quit. it’s a lot of wasted time, and it’s anet basically spitting in my face.

NPR was awful, but at least i could use all the skill point scrolls from wvw and pvp to unlock traits. being forced to pve, wow so fun.

so sounds to me like your gonna throw a tantrum and toss out countless hours of fun cuz you wont spend a few hours running around hitting your f key to commune with a skill point location or kill some simple mobs that take less than 30 seconds to kill… hmmm? glad people like you dont run the country… oh wait….

it’s a video game. it’s supposed to be fun. most of my characters have close to 0% map completion so that’s a lot of walking. so, over 7+ hours of boredom to get my characters to the point where they are right now. I’m just not interested.

I’ve been playing Black Desert Online and really enjoying it. being forced to do pointless unfun pve to get things back that they have taken from me back, combined with bad pvp matchmaking, perma stealth, boring LS updates, and other issues i have with the game are enough to get me to quit. straw that breaks the camel’s back.

and as for your weird politics comment, seeing as im a neo-marxist with a degree in philosophy people like me definitely don’t run whatever country you are from.

look bud… clearly you dont like this game so why are you here? If another MMO has all you want like you claim, then go there and play the game you like, quit wasting your time here, nothing more needs to be said. Your degrees mean squat here bub, I dont care if your stephen hawking either.

morrolan.9608:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

I don’t particularly consider 65 skill challenges to be “a lot,” but that’s just difference of opinion.

65 skills challenges is probably around 11 hours to complete for 1 toon. Add in multiple toons and it is a lot of time to regain what we already have..

it is NOT 11 hours to do… you can pop from point to point and communing takes a few seconds. you can easily get 65 points in under 2 hours if you dedicate the time.

ugh… not a reflection on this game, but I cringe when I see acronyms like NPE… reminds me of the SWG days when they introduced the NGE ie New Game Experience… that lead to the direct death of the game as a whole… then they introduced a playing card game you could spend real money on….

btw… the economists in game are there to make the money for anet… they wont regulate kitten…

vayne is partial correct, and it only proves my point more… these items can be harvested in the open world quite easily… so then why is a single node in an instance worth so much? even if I had a hundred friends and we allll spent all day long doing nothing but harvesting these mats… were still talking 300 units per person. you will neither make your money back for buying these, and 300 units on the BLTC per person will do nothing but drive prices down to regular levels…

astral you must be a person that has harvested a lot of those and has them for sale for the high price they are now…. so what your saying is… lets keep things ungodly high on price… so you can make your profits.

no offense steven, but you are precisely the problem here…
they have gone from selling 3 nodes in a bundle for 800 gems to a single RNG BL chest gamble that forces you to spend money on keys…. Anet has become so kitten greedy it isn’t funny….

you people are delusional… they are bending you over like sheep.. take for instance the new harvest nodes… they have gone from a 3 pack for 800 gems on the store to a single node RNG from BL chests you HAVE to buy keys to get…. nothing says raaaaaaaaaaaape like like that…

“No need to buy them, Gw2 will feature consistent free content updates and in-game events going forward. Our goal is to make it so you get more from Gw2 for free than you get from a game you pay a subscription for. On top of a large amount of free bonus content, we will be expanding on offerings in the Black Lion Trading Company going forward, as well as be doing large-scale expansion content down the road.”

“We do appreciate that you’d like to buy lots of new content, but we’d prefer to give a lot of it to you for free, cause that’s what we think a responsible MMO company does!”

while this doesnt say EVERYTHING is free, it appears to me that the vast majority, including an expansion should be free… at least cuz its the Responsible thing an MMO company does.