On another note, I can’t wait till we get slow and taunt, along with other new stuff, because I think this build could be tweaked to provide unparalleled control. I believe it will only get stronger come HoT (or at least a variant of it).
Maybe it might also work better in chronomancer spec rather than mesmer, depending on the specifics, who knows.
Looking forward anyway.
And condition CI.
I tend to like nightmare runes now and reluctantly take MoD because it’s too useful even though I don’t like it.
Strong build although lacks the ability to emit any serious burst – but instead it can easily make a huge difference in a teamfight and also hold a point reasonably well (only semi bunker tbh – need to still kite around).
Edit – I would say it works best if you have one or two coordinated serious dps glass cannon teammates – because that build excels in control which makes it easy for your team to burst others down.
(edited by Curunen.8729)
I loved having Mirror and Mimic when there was an abundance of projectiles.
“Cast” mirror … cancel before it ends … it’s ready again in 4s
“Cast” mimic … cancel before it ends … it’s ready again in 4sMight be part of why they changed Mimic :-/
Yeah, would have been too many pew pew suicides following the same patch…
Bad mesmer, we’ll take your toy away until we know how to make it weak enough not to upset the nice shiny we gave to the pew pew.
If we just get back mimic bubble shield as part of one of the skills (obviously tweaked to have additional better effects) then I will be happy.
I just want that bubble shield visual effect and block back – nothing quite matches seeing your character holding their hand up rather gently and tanking everything for 4 seconds.
Oh it needs a chronomancer theme. So it’ll be named The Stick of Time.
Yeah stick of time sounds cool i already can see the skill setup:
1-Any Day Now=Fix one bug each hit.
2-About Time=give all your ilusions offhand weapons.
3-Back to the future=Travel 10 years to the future and now you can use ileap perfectly.
4-Blast from the Past=Go back to Oct 15th 2013.
5-Total recall=Ignore all nerfs in the past 3 years for 20 seconds.
My god, make it so!
Really annoying sound bug – seems to play soundbites from class skills (or downed soundbites) at full volume when in pve zones – I’ve only been casually running around queensdale/kessex hills/gendarran fields doing some personal story and it’s incredibly annoying.
I don’t know if it is from other characters in the zone using those skills at the same time because I don’t see them, but things like full volume “for great justice” or “anyone help” when there’s no one in sight.
Hey guys. I added this text “-assetsrv 62.154.232.187:80” to the end of the target location of my GW2 shortcut, and restarted it. It then downloaded a 3mb/s and finished in a few seconds.
Example, target location now reads: “C:\Program Files\Guild Wars 2\Gw2.exe” -assetsrv 62.154.232.187:80
Another confirmation here, this worked for me. Thank you!
Nice, this has worked for me as well.
I dunno – critical infusion and sharper images, plus at least one adept duelling trait are still too good to pass up, even if DE was standard.
Those are good and strong traits.
They’re also (usually) not build-enabling.
That’s the difference. DE is 100% essential, whereas critical infusion and sharper images are merely strong traits that add to a build.
True.
I’d still be tempted to put up to 4 points in duelling in most builds, even without DE because of the number of little gems in there, as well as the precision/ferocity.
Although I see the options for things like x/x/x/6/6, 6/x/x/x/6 and x/x/6/x/6 (yes, I subscribe to the theory that 6 in illusions will be highly desirable in most builds).
We already have spear.
Underwater. heh.
Which funnily enough is one of my favourite weapons in the game.
Buffed in PvP
I was just reading about that – still downloading patch, interested to see for myself.
I dunno – critical infusion and sharper images, plus at least one adept duelling trait are still too good to pass up, even if DE was standard.
Oh no… I haven’t had a chance to play since this – not looking forward to it now.
I demand that they remove PvE from Map completion for WvW players!!!!
lol, first reply to this thread = best reply.
Agreed, this is stupid.
I hated having to complete every square inch of all the pve zones far more than waiting for a few rotations to access a few keeps…
WvW map completion is easy compared to PvE map completion.
The reason WvW being part of map completion is a problem is because if you happened to roll a character on a bad WvW server you have 0 chance of ever completing it. You shouldn’t be forced to switch servers to finish content. If you had no problems getting any portion of the wvw map consider yourself lucky.
I can accept this reason, although even then, joining up with a focused group should allow a player to access most areas in one colour rotation.
(edited by Curunen.8729)
Shield fits perfectly to my mesmer imo! I don’t want a mainhand pistol for mine at all ..
I also prefer the idea of a shield, even if not mainhand.
Offhand pistol is the only weapon in our current set that I pretty much never use – I just don’t like it (the phantasm sound effect is annoying and magic bullet is too easy to miss/waste).
So yeah, I’m looking forward to the shield a lot more than any pistol, main or offhand.
There’s a long list of weapons I’d like to see before any other pistol, including spear, hammer, mainhand focus, alternate ranged auto attack for sword, long/shortbow, main/offhand axes, and warhorn.
(edited by Curunen.8729)
Good advice given by everyone in here.
I’ll just add that “instant kill” shatter is simply not possible because of how it works. The only thing that is remotely close to “instant kill” is either unloading a mirror images/mind wrack or mirror blade/mindwrack on enemies made of glass/paper, usually after stacking them up with vulnerability first – as people have said, look out for dazes and learn when to dodge.
Dodging at the right time can pretty much neuter any shatter mesmer – especially as their burst comes in cycles. Try not to be baited to dodge at the wrong time, which they will try to make you do to waste endurance before hitting you with the big damage.
Otherwise there will always be a set up. If the setup has been in stealth, then it is no different to predicting a thief’s burst and dodging/putting up appropriate defensive skills at the right time. Add to this that at the most they will only have up to a maximum of 4 stealth skills (4 only if veil and torch, 2 if only decoy/MI), all on medium/long cooldowns, it emphasises the fact that they are in serious trouble if they miss their burst too often – often blowing key defensive cooldowns in order to attack.
Also, if you’re a necro they should pretty much never be able to 100-0 you. It should take 2 or more heavy bursts – so you have the luxury of being able to soak up some damage, and put out the conditions/power damage that will melt any shatter player. Necro is the only class I have never played, but from experience of fighting against I know that your redundant health pool and defensive skills can soak up significant amounts of damage – certainly more than a shatter mesmer should be able to destroy without a full setup with max vulnerability. If they can, then you might want to look over your build.
(edited by Curunen.8729)
Haha nice timing – happy Pi day. xD
Entertaining play, although I prefer to use iElasticity for the extra mirror blade burst, as well as boon strip and situationally blade training instead of 1200 blink.
Decided to make a new Mesmer…hopefully I’ll keep this one, and my first Charr!
I love this! :o
Chaos storm – RNGing from awesome to terribad since 2012 … or 2011? xD
The funniest kill I’ve ever had was on skyhammer. After a fight I went to the sky hammer to get rid of the current user. When I was up there the guard knocked my down, went to a breaking platform, GS 5ed me on the way, tried to pull me, yet I got struck somehow and wasn’t pulled properly (ty bugwars
), the glass is almost breaking so the guard jumpt to me with GS 3. The funny thing now is that my rune of nightmare just got off it’s CD and feared him back into the now broken platform, and hie fell .. fell … still falling … and died
I was just there like, chain cced, and he was performing with high APM and … well … killed himself
Ouch, I bet the guard wasn’t too happy. xD
The reality is that the vast majority of possible builds on mesmer have been explored extensively at this point in the game. Contrary to what has been said so far, there’s not that much possible diversity. There’s a couple of reasons for this, and if these got a bit fixed up in one way or another, it could expand possible traitsets enormously.
DE is the number 1 limiting factor on mesmer build diversity. Try as you might, it’s simply not possible to make a viable build that doesn’t include DE if you want to rely on either shatter or clone deaths. DE is even a strong choice in a phantasm build, although is definitely not necessary there.
Now, think about what builds rely on shatters or clone deaths. Every condition build for mesmer relies on either shatters (maim), clone deaths (everything else), or a combination of sharper images from phantasms and one or more of the other two. Glamour builds don’t really exist anymore (and never did in PvP anyway). So, this means that if you run a condition build on mesmer, you must go 4 points into dueling.
Now what if you run a power build? Well, you could go with shatter or phantasm. Interrupt builds can be made out of either shatter or phantasm builds, so they don’t fit into this classification, since interrupts are never a primary source of damage. If you go shatter, you need DE. If you go phantasm…DE is nice, but not strictly necessary.
This is insanely limiting! It means that for the vast majority of builds in the game, you are required to go 4 points into dueling. This leaves 1 grandmaster and 1 master trait for you to play with (2 grandmasters and 1 adept if you choose to go 6 dueling). There’s a finite amount of things you can do with that.
For example, say you wanted to make a signet build that deals damage with shatters/interrupts. Well, you need 4 points in dueling. You also are going to need at least 2 points in domination for signet cooldowns…but that trait conflicts with mental torment/halting strike, so you’re forced to go 4 into domination instead. Lastly you want to take cleansing inscriptions and blurred inscriptions…and all of a sudden your traits are 100% locked in. 4/6/4 with the only trait you can change being adept in chaos.
Obviously using a signet build as an example here is exaggerating since signet traits are crazily all over the place. However, most mesmer builds will go through this process to a similar extent. You pick what you want to do and how you want to do it aaaand all of a sudden 80%+ of your trait selection and placement is completely locked in with no variation.
Now, the possibility exists that there’s some build out there that hasn’t been used and is somehow crazily effective for some odd reasons, but I highly doubt it.
Now, as far as viable builds go, no mesmer builds are truly viable at the top competitive level. This is seen pretty clearly in the WTS, and is not really a debateable point. Now, the top level obviously is an incredibly limited group of players that the vast majority of people won’t ever encounter. Because of that, mesmer can certainly be played viably if you’re good enough at it as long as you stay out of WTS-level play. As long as you avoid that level, almost anything (within reason, I’m talking actual functioning builds here, not the random splat on a build editor that happens now and then) can be played successfully with enough skill. I personally prefer PU condie, but I’ve played phantasm builds, interrupt builds, and standard shatter builds with success.
Now that being said, the situation of the meta at the top level is not something that should be ignored. It shows benchmarks for truly how effective classes are when you push them to the limit. It shows very clearly that mesmer is less effective than every other class in the game. It shows that as players get better, as you fight tankier and more optimized builds, mesmer simply can’t keep up the way it is right now, and that’s not good. Yes, that singularity of mesmer non-viability doesn’t actually hit until that very top level, but the compression of how well you can perform compared to other classes absolutely comes into play. If I were equally skilled on warrior or ele as I am on mesmer, it would be far easier to carry and control matches, and I personally think that’s an awful thing that really needs to be fixed, hopefully in this expansion.
Pyro to the rescue.
Trait placement and effects (along with a huge gulf between the amazing and useless traits) is definitely the core problem.
I disagree.
Self rooting melee skills is for the high risk and high reward which is needed for skill based games.
This.
Also, I’d rather not soil my pants at the sight of three Wars charging at me with Hundred Blades channeled.
lol, the mental image of this is both terrifying and hilarious at the same time.
This isn’t about being right, its about personal opinion on what would be best for the class. And its true, we DO need to stick together and respect that some people will disagree with us rather than attack each other.
There’s no l2p here, we all know how to play our class and we have different perspectives. The goal here is to combine those perspectives into one clear picture.
So, respectfully, could we please answer the questions before criticizing each other?
Edit: That being said, there is an interesting point here. Different specs are viable at different levels of play, but who do we consider? The average PUG? Min/maxers? Speed runners? Top tier WvW servers?
Yes lockdown is viable in lower levels but we can’t ignore the question of WHY it falls off at higher tiers. All points of view are worth considering.
Okay, If we can play our class at different levels, where is the whine coming from?
I do not see you saying Shatter is the only viable build in pvp. do you see anyone of us long time mesmers here saying that?
I for one would LOVE lockdown to be in higher tiers, But I for one also wouldn’t mind if it didn’t because I wouldn’t be playing there anyway.
We should limit our opinions on WHERE DO WE BELONG
How many people play higher tier here vs How many play casual?
Im guessing the majority is in casual. So this is where we start first. and worry about other stuff later.
So what is the problem of mesmers in Casuals then?
For me this problem is not accurately identified or targeted.
Instead of looking at “casual” and “top 1%” players, I think it’s more appropriate to look at builds and their strengths and weaknesses.
Some of the weaknesses for the small variety of distinct builds that we have are so opposed to each other that where one build might pass with flying colours, another build will fall flat on its face.
Take the common issue of fighting a thief – polar opposites depending on build. But then another build might run into a different wall – for example a condition build against an appropriately built ele. I get the whole rock/paper/scissors thing, but to have some weapon/utility/trait options be so devastating in one scenario and be almost useless in another is the root of the problem.
Another example is traited focus – take it against a greatsword mesmer and there’s no difference (almost a weakness tbh), take it against an engineer/ranger and it’s night and day.
I dunno, that’s just how it appears to me. Maybe when we get build templates things might be easier – but then we’ll just have “template wars” which doesn’t really solve the problem.
All of my responses are from a pvp/wvw perspective.
What do you feel the Mesmer is currently lacking ATM?
- distinct variety in trait selection, utility skill choices (blink and decoy… that leaves one space in most cases because all other utilities are inferior) and weapon use, which produce coherent individual builds all of which are on equal (but not identical) footing.
What game mode (PvP, WvW, PvE Open World/Dungeons) do you feel Mesmer currently excels in the most?
WvW roaming, for obvious reasons – but even then it is build dependant.
Least?
I can’t talk about PvE, so I’ll say PvP conquest.
Without reworking anything, what minor adjustments would you make to any of our weapons/utilities/traits to make them more viable?
Blurred Frenzy – revert cooldown to 10s base, reduce number of hits and increase overall damage
Blinding Befuddlement – remove ICD
Mimic – restore original skill
Power Block – fix/adjust it for thieves
Utility Phantasms – reduce cast times further
Glamour trait placement – tidy up/consolidate
Many Grandmaster traits are just not good enough when compared to other traits.
Is there anything that would make you stop playing Mesmer?
Gutting mainhand sword any further. I dunno – I won’t stop playing mesmer unless it is deleted from the game.
If you’ve stopped what would draw you back?
Fixing mesmer.
What has damaged your faith in the devs?
The nerfs/balance changes over the last two and a half years, mostly down to whining because mesmer is difficult for new/inexperienced players to fight against (and comparatively easy for experienced players to fight against). I don’t think any other class has that weird scaling issue.
Is there any faith remaining?
Some, due to the expansion. I will continue to play in the meantime.
What would have to happen to earn back your trust?
Reverting some ridiculous changes, giving us some new mainhand weapons, fixing/sorting out the mess of traits in both effects and placement in the trees.
Again, please no general statements like “a lot of nerfs.”What is your one (reasonable) Mesmer wish?
A new class mechanic that doesn’t focus on shattering illusions.
Heh, nicely done.
What if we get secondary effects on our main hand skills? Like, for example, if you have a shield in off hand, your Sword third autoattack applies quickness for 1 second (1 second of slow on scepter AA?), or something like that?
That sounds like a trait to me, not an innate mechanic.
But I really like the Idea.
Let’s try beeing creative with that:
- Sword – Focus (supportive)
AA-Chain: copy a boon from yourself to your allies on every 3rd hit
Blurred Frenzy: grants 1s of blur for up to 5 allies.
iLeap+Swap: swap is explosion finisher- Sword – Pistol (duel stuff)
AA-Chain: 3rd attack steals the boon now
Blurred Frenzy: reverted to invulnerability
iLeap+Swap: possible to cast when the clone is dead already- Sword – Torch (condition)
AA-Chain: bleed on 1 and 2.
Blurred Frenzy: last hit inflicts poison
iLeap+Swap: add chill- Sword – Shield (time)
AA-Chain: slow on 3rd hit
Blurred Frenzy: cooldown from 12s to 10s
iLeap+Swap: per immobilized enemy you gain quickness- Sword – Sword (offensive)
AA-Chain: more dmg
Blurred Frenzy: daze on first hit
iLeap+Swap: Reverse the skill (you leap and the clone stays at your pose, like in beta)
While I absolutely love this selection of skill evolutions, I would suggest a better option is to just give each skill a branching “tree” where a player can customise it as they like, instead of being limited to specific unchangeable options based on equipment.
For example the sword auto – applying bleeds, stripping boons, copying boons, etc… maybe some things can be hidden behind trait walls, but otherwise having at least 3 options per skill, and at least one level of branching would be nice.
You could even go the extra bit and give the choice between, again taking sword AA as the example – melee cleave or ranged rapid fire pink bolt chain (like greatsword AA but discrete bolts), still with power focus. There’s your ranged mainhand power right there.
You could take scepter and give the choice between ranged AA bolts or melee AA, still remaining with its condition focus.
I hope that makes sense – I would like to see an rpg style skill evolution for every skill including auto attacks.
Found an old video of Pyro: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQI0E1WCLMU
It’s mind-boggling why he still keeps up with the scene. The masochism is off the charts.
LOL, not bad. xD
I remember one year ago when I asked people if imbued should be standard and the only answer I got was “No, it would be OP”. Its interesting to see how that opinion has changed over one year. It seems everyone wants diversion to be aoe now (I would love it personally).
More like because MoD was made AoE standard, it makes sense for Diversion to follow suit.
Where’s Bamf Joe with his “taste the rainbow” charr? :p
At this point I have no strong feelings one way or the other. :p
Just going to wait and see.
I actually think it should be innate to diversion. Diversion as it is has a kitten long cooldown, doesn’t stack well and is an absolute pain to use with the whole clones being tissue paper. So I actually think it should be innate, so it can be used with the illusionary persona.
Agreed – remove/replace the trait and make it standard.
MW and CoF are aoe – makes no sense that diversion should be single target unless traited. Give it a target cap of 3 or something.
Sorry for grave digging, but I just had to bump this topic.
Since they are obviously taking a look at recent skills/traits for the expansion, I really hope they revamp this skill.
Anet, please.
Yes, please.
Fix this abomination.
Because, of the one optional utility slot (I always use both blink and decoy), I value clutch condition cleanse far more than portal because if playing shatter it is a lifesaver – compared with not having condition removal and having to run around like crazy if you get tagged with some conditions.
I like being able to pop off that immobilise or poison without having to wait – it allows me to take control of a fight rather than having to run away from it, just for the luxury of having a skill which only works in a coordinated team and only shines in one game mode (conquest) – but even then, with traveler runes and proper map awareness you don’t even need portal in the lower 90% of matchups, and as I don’t aspire to get to the high end, I don’t care about using it.
Ranged mainhand shield with suitable cc skill would be awesome.
I’m gonna go against the stream and say that I wanted mesmers to get shields pretty much since launch.
Never thought we would ever get it, so fistbump to the dev who shares the same wet dream as me.I think it’s a bit early to say you dont want something when we have 0 knowledge about skills and how they will interact with our new traitline. Atleast wait until we get some information about the general role of our specialisation before you want things changed.
The only thing I care about right now, is how goodlooking the new legendary shield will be, because I’ll be getting that one for sure :^)
It’s not the shield that bothers me – I like shields.
It’s the chance of having (assuming) 5 offhands and only 2 mainhands, with those split into one melee and one ranged. Whereas having 4 and 4 would give more scope for variety in loadouts.
Tbh, any changes to the class mechanic are way more interesting than a new weapon (especially yet another offhand).
I would rather we get two mainhands (focus, dagger, pistol, axe, mace…) than a fifth offhand, but oh well – not much to be donw about it now.
But, if they give us TWO shields – one main, one offhand… well that would be cool. ;D
If not for Mesmer, this game would be trash.
Simple as that.
Blunt and true.
If it wasn’t for mesmer, I would have quit a couple of weeks after launch.
Just based on the personality in your post I think you’ll love the Mesmer LOL
This, no joke.
OP, pick your class based on the theme you enjoy – if it’s all things to do with undeath/vomit green/disgusting undead creatures/disease… (makes me sick just typing it :p), then go with necro.
If you like pink/purple, butterflies, pretty things, art/magic, awesome mind/time/space bending skills and skill names, love seeing more of yourself, then go with mesmer.
Efficiency is a secondary consideration when picking class, because you will be disappointed – if not now, then in the future when Anet decides to nerf/buff/break something.
So lets see who comes closest to actually predicting what we get. (More details to come soon in OMFG guild message. Could turn this into a wager, but can’t do that on the forums)
Oh, this is a good idea! I wonder what chaos thought of for traits…
- Reduce Shield CDs by 20%
smh
I couldn’t even think of a cool secondary effect like focus/torch/pistol xD
Lets see what you come up with chief!
Activating a shield skill grants a random, useless boon.
Or if we want to be a big dreamer: Activating a shield skill grants X stacks of stability for Y seconds.
Shield skills cause chill? Could work.
Wait wait wait, I got it.
Shield skills work on release.
Can I get a high5? High5’s all ’round.
Using a shield skill won’t break any active phantasms causing them not to attack until cast again.
yay ppl here are talking about build diversity!
How did anet give diversity to us mesmers?
- removed glamour builds
- removed retalitation phantasm builds
- nerfed down Power Block after seeing that mesmers were actually able to play a new build
- kicked Illusionists Celerity to higher tiers (adept->grandmaster->master) Yes this helped build diversity a lot!
hype!
Yep.
Well at least we got MtD and torment in return, but I agree that there is less diversity now than before, because of whining people from other classes saying nerf this/nerf that – and not only nerf it but break it completely in the process.
Isnt it illusionists celerity cost 25 pts befoe?
Costed 5 in from launch and was pushed to 25 then back to 15.
Tbh there are times when I wish it was back at 5 point minor.
(edited by Curunen.8729)
@Me Games Ma: I don’t even know what (45s) is supposed to be censoring lol
@Clownmug: I doubt it. They’ve stated before that mediocre out of combat speed is an intentional Mesmer weakness
So when do we get our intentional Mesmer strength?
lol, good one. xD
Tbh most of these nerfs was required. They was really OP. Like insta Into the void abuse at cliffs. The are was some buffs too.
More buffs are welcome though.The blurred frenzy nerf was totally required too? It completely removed MH sword for the longest time. Illusionary leap sucking was only compensated by how good blurred frenzy was. That was nerfed and sword mh was removed from the meta. And since mesmer lacks any other decent power mainhand weapon we were forced into double ranged shatter, which people still gripe about.
Blurred frenzy nerf still hurts me.
Yep… and I am still angry with ANet to have destroyed glamour confusion builds… It was soooooooooooooooooooooo cool.
And this.
Kitten fantastic – this is hands down going to be my favourite and best update for the game. Can’t wait.
(Built in crosshair/sticky camera toggle next and binding mouse buttons to skills next, without using third party tools like autohotkey?)
Amen, fellow butterfly.
What weapon you DONT-WANT? (Specialization)
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Curunen.8729
Maybe we should have a group of duel wielding classes that no on expects imagine your surprise to see…..
Mesmer: Duel wielding torch (The Prestige)
Guardian: Duel wielding Shield ( The Bunker)
Warrior: Duel wielding Rifle (The Boss)
Elementalist: Duel Wielding Staff ( The Magician)
Ranger: Duel Wielding Bows ( The What the Hell!)
Necro: Duel wielding Warhorn ( The plague)
So much more fun
Aha, this is amazing.
And Engi: Dual wielding Hammers ((Bob) The Builder)
-snip- Are mesmer players just masochists?
Pretty much
lol, but the butterflies are worth it. :p
Just joining the party i see..
I’ve been playing for a long time, just extremely casually though, and until recently I have finally taken a larger interest in the PvP scene, but after going from wolf to dragon and getting like 2k matches played in the past while I have just finally noticed how poorly balanced this game really is.
If only the biggest problem were theives.
Celestial teams anyone?
5 celestial engis on foefire…
shudder
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I do not hate Trahearne. I feel sorry for him.
Faolain, however, is a monster and has always been one. Yeah, I agree with the poster above, let us rid the world of that weed.
Yeah I agree with this – I like Trahearne and would not want to have to fight him.
Faolain on the other hand is a twisted kitten and deserves to finally be put down.
Congrats!
I’ve played for 800hrs and last week I somehow got 4 precursors in the space of 4 days. Yeah, everybody in my guild hates me now
Praise RNG!
And people not in your guild also now. :p
(just kidding)
i am not to sure if slow would be a good condishen for mesmers to get, think about confusion, if they attak slower it will be useless
Yeah but some skills which are currently almost impossible to interrupt will become fair game.
Maybe they are also going to change confusion in the expansion – like they are changing stability and tweaking all other boons/conditions.
I’m guessing many skills will be changed to account for this – for example Rampage as One will be awful without a buff after this change.
Anyway, as said it will be nice that we can remove it without needing specific boon removal, and so get more mileage from interrupts.