Guild Wars 2

Lets make our feedback short, clean and productive!

Here’s mine so far.

Positive observations:

1. New design promotes fair matches.
2. Skyhammer de-caping was a clever idea that manages to keep the crucial role of the cannon.

Negative observations:

1. Total elimination of the breakable glass floors made the map less interesting and less unique.

Suggestions:

These are aimed at making the matches more interesting by stimulating map awareness and strategic thinking skills while maintaining a high degree of fairness overall.

1. Bring back breakable glass floor BUT make it only breakable by Skyhammer (This will ensure fairness).

2. Add a secondary structure bellow breakable floor so if a player falls (knocked, feared, bad step) the player can run back to the upper platform (This will promote strategic thinking skills).

3. Once floor is broken, keep it broken for about 20 seconds (This will stimulate map awareness).

If you think that moa is the only good thing about Mesmer you are not very involved in higher divisions team play.

1. Mesmer carries the team by controlling 2 points at the same time with portal plays.

2. Mesmer is the only class w/o hard counters (Meaning its the best 1v1 class in game).

3. Mesmer can Moa 2 persons at the same time, turning a fight into a 5v3 for 6 seconds.

Those 3 alone have been carrying teams for the whole season.

Go and watch last night ESL and see by yourself.

Hey ppl, Anet already said they are following this post, dont let it die!

Keep giving ur top suggestions!

To be honest, the OP sounds like an Idea that we could expect from ANET staff based on their history.

This is a good example of how dangerous the twisted logic of some ppl can be in the long run.

So if you really want to complete the last step on killing the game mode, just do what the OP says…

L o L

Questino to OP"

Is your model considering that at peak hours the amount of premades/parties increase significantly?

Lets ban everything that some random players don’t like.. so we end up with a completely flat terrain, weaponless players w/o armor, boons, conditions, passive dmg, skills and we just stay in a white limbo, looking at the other players until some other random guy suggest to ban players who stare at other players…

This is how ridiculous is the OP idea.

Next time, suggest plausible changes instead of nonsensical elimination of w/e thing u personally don’t like.

……………………………………

Nothing much to say….. According to Evan Lesh on this same post, their “system” is working as intended. L o L

Topher.5631:

Erik Waananen.6089:

Thank you, everyone, for your continued input! I just wanted to pop in real quick and let you know that I have read through every single post in this thread (in addition to reading many, many other threads across the PvP forums, of course) and that the team is aware of and very appreciative of all of your constructive feedback.

Keep it comin’!

EDIT: Poor grammar :P

ANET! This is the kind of communication the player base is talking about! Even if you don’t have anything like “Well we can’t do this because” the acknowledgement that you read the posts and took them into consideration is a step in the right direction! Thank you Erik!

Exactly!

Les hope that ppl keep posting their suggestions.

new ideas are always a step in the right direction

Agree with your post.

ANET created this awesome game and then systematically destroyed it…

If you kill the sense of progression and the fun factor… u kill the game.

Ranked pvp this season does exactly that.

Yasi.9065:

There is NO way to recover atm. You get on the loosing side, you stay on the loosing side.

Why? Because as soon as you get on the loosing side, you get matched with players that are worse than you. The system keeps matching you with those players against teams with 2-3 good players and 2-3 luckers. Now, some matches you get 3 luckers and you can carry 4 against 3 luckers. Thats when you break your loosing streak.
Most matches you get 3 good players (and I mean by good in NO way ESL niveau… just people that know to watch sidepoints) and it is impossible to carry 4 players against that.

So, as soon as you lost too many matches, this season is OVER for you in anything but 5 man premades. Because the system simply does not let you recover. It is designed to not let you recover. Get good? Sure, maybe if you instantly get to the level of an ESL player. But I dare any ESL to try to carry the teammates my mainaccount gets. Try to “carry” if your team fights a 4v2 on mid all the match and no matter what you do (+3ing that, which is just plain stupid to even have to do, or pushing side points, or pushing map extras, YELLING at them) you cant get them to start rotating.

So, you got hit by a loosing streak in the beginning, when all the “better” players blew through amber? Might as well stop playing immediately. The highest you will get is ruby, and only with tons of work.

Want to keep playing pvp because you love it so much? Just make a F2P account with a fresh mmr and ride the luck train all the way to at least diamond.

Thats how you get “happy” with this season’s mechanics.

HAHAHA great post. Cant be explained better.

Cyanon.1928:

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

Mr Lesh, I understand your logic perfectly and I even agree with it. But your system is not good for this game and will end up destroying sPvP for good.

Why? Simple, 5vs5 is way to small for a system like this. In a 5v5 match 1 bad player have a lot of power to define the match even if the other 4 are equally skilled than the enemy team.

In this season I can bet that most of the legend/diamond players grinded their way by doing 3-4 ppl premades. So, how can you use mmr/div as a measure of skill? Do you mean team skill or player skill?

I’ll give u an specific example of how terrible the system is actually working. I made a party with 3 diamonds from a “pvp” guild when I was Saph. The 4 of us were using voice comm. I was surprised about the terrible calls they were making (going into 1v1s fights in an enemy capped node, totally abandoning mid after winning the fight, going far after winning a fight while home was decapped and knowing that enemies were re spawning…..). I have friends in Saph who play a lot better than that and yet they are in losing streaks almost every day…

How can you say that those Diamond guys belong to Diamond? It was clear that the only reason they were diamond is because they did premades with voice.

So, how does that measure skill for you Mr Lesh? What you and your team are seeing in the data tables could be biased by what you want to see and I does not reflect the (in-game reality). I do research in biology and I can tell you that its very easy to be biased when evaluating data even if you don’t realize it.

I might be wrong/biased too but it seems like the current system only measures team skill and not player skill. Thus, forcing us to avoid the soloQ and join premades… Is that what you folks at ANET wanted? If so, then you will destroy sPvP because most players don’t like to be req to premade/voice they will eventually get tired of losing games and go play something else…

You can either bring back SoloQ option or increase team size in order to improve the gaming experience within your current matchmaking system. The success of the sPvP aspect cannot be based ONLY on e-sports. Game-fun experience must be protected/maintained even at the highest levels of competitiveness.

I have to be honest, this post by Evan just killed any expectations I had for sPvP experience to get better… They seem to think things are working as intended…

Saiyan.1704:

1. Add an in-game majority voting system to auto Dishonor players for being Toxic/Unhealthy during the game.

2. Normalize certain builds as well as a slight nerf to all specializations but focus strong points – Lower CC’s across the board. Example: For DH only traps with a cast time can stun. Moa reduced by 1s, Engi total stuns reduced by 40%, etc.

3. Stability should be shaved from every class on elite specs. Half the reason elite specs performs better is because of their utilities; its suppose to be a play style change not a huge performance boost.

4. I would love non-class stacking in unranked as well. Prioritize non class stacking more in Matchmaking but have a 5m queue threshold for matchmaking to revert back to normal class stacking for an individual player who hasnt gotten a match.

WoW, +1 for the Majority voting system. Not sure why we don’t have one already.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

Mr Lesh, I understand your logic perfectly and I even agree with it. But your system is not good for this game and will end up destroying sPvP for good.

Why? Simple, 5vs5 is way to small for a system like this. In a 5v5 match 1 bad player have a lot of power to define the match even if the other 4 are equally skilled than the enemy team.

In this season I can bet that most of the legend/diamond players grinded their way by doing 3-4 ppl premades. So, how can you use mmr/div as a measure of skill? Do you mean team skill or player skill?

I’ll give u an specific example of how terrible the system is actually working. I made a party with 3 diamonds from a “pvp” guild when I was Saph. The 4 of us were using voice comm. I was surprised about the terrible calls they were making (going into 1v1s fights in an enemy capped node, totally abandoning mid after winning the fight, going far after winning a fight while home was decapped and knowing that enemies were re spawning…..). I have friends in Saph who play a lot better than that and yet they are in losing streaks almost every day…

How can you say that those Diamond guys belong to Diamond? It was clear that the only reason they were diamond is because they did premades with voice.

So, how does that measure skill for you Mr Lesh? What you and your team are seeing in the data tables could be biased by what you want to see and I does not reflect the (in-game reality). I do research in biology and I can tell you that its very easy to be biased when evaluating data even if you don’t realize it.

I might be wrong/biased too but it seems like the current system only measures team skill and not player skill. Thus, forcing us to avoid the soloQ and join premades… Is that what you folks at ANET wanted? If so, then you will destroy sPvP because most players don’t like to be req to premade/voice they will eventually get tired of losing games and go play something else…

You can either bring back SoloQ option or increase team size in order to improve the gaming experience within your current matchmaking system. The success of the sPvP aspect cannot be based ONLY on e-sports. Game-fun experience must be protected/maintained even at the highest levels of competitiveness.

Erik Waananen.6089:

Thank you, everyone, for your continued input! I just wanted to pop in real quick and let you know that I have read through every single post in this thread (in addition to reading many, many other threads across the PvP forums, of course) and that the team is aware of and very appreciative of all of your constructive feedback.

Keep it comin’!

EDIT: Poor grammar :P

Erik, thanks for showing us your support and telling us that ANET is listening to the player base. We are all folks who care about this game and want to see it alive for much longer.

+1 to Erik Waananen!

1. Please don’t remove map from Unranked – We need map variety. Adjust it to make it more fair and add it to ranked as well after its adjusted/modified.

2. Eliminate the ability to fall down ONLY from map border (second platform sounds interesting as well) .

3. Reduce Skyhammer dmg by 50%.

4. Crystal platforms can only be broken by the Skyhammer – But their timing of recovery is increased by 200% .

Shylock.4653:

Fivedawgs.4267:

About point four; instead of requiring 50 unrank maybe they should only allow tiger or bear to participate in ranks instead of rabbit? As it stand, you only have to be rank 20 to unlock ranks.

With all the rank farm server ranks have lost any meaning.

I wouldn’t say ranks have lost meaning, they still have some value. At least they still mean experience. But player ranks should not be used as a measure of skill. In that sense, having a higher rank req. before joining ranked matches should increase the chance of better quality matches.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Cyanon.1928:

As the post have become somewhat popular I’m going to share a few more suggestions that I consider important.

1. “In-Game Small Surveys” with small rewards – Small non-invasive survey system with rewards (small) could make feedback more effective as well as it can also send the message to every players that ANET are really taking us in consideration in their decision making process. It can be by in-game mail or small popup at a SIDE of the screen.

2. Urgently need of more maps and game modes for ranked – I understand that ANET is trying to bring fair maps… but hey… playing same 3 maps over and over for years is not the best way to do it. Nor is eliminating the new maps created instead of modifying them (if needed).

3. Don’t eliminate maps from unranked, we need variety (add a filter where players can select, unselect maps) – Unranked should be the relaxing and fun mode of our sPvP as opposite to the more competitive (and stressful) Ranked option. Keeping a good variety of maps at least in unranked helps to extend the lifespan of our sPvP.

4. *Require 50 unranked (profession specific) wins to unlock the ranked option for that profession * – This one doesn’t need much explanation. All I’m going to say is that it is insane to allow inexperienced players to be matched against significantly more experienced players even within their same division. You are forcing most newer players out of the pvp with negative comments. This is not got for anyone regardless of skill lvl.

5. Add a “training boot camp (per class) as a requisite before joining ranked” – Same explanation as point # 4.

About point four; instead of requiring 50 unrank maybe they should only allow tiger or bear to participate in ranks instead of rabbit? As it stand, you only have to be rank 20 to unlock ranks.

Agree! But I would use it to substitute point 5 instead. Since the main idea of Point #4 is to make it (“profession specific”) instead of account wide.

See ANET? As it stand from this forum thread and many others, there are a lot of different solutions you can consider and test in order to improve game experience.

As the topic has become somewhat popular I’m going to share a few more suggestions that I consider important.

1. “In-Game Small Surveys” with small rewards – Small non-invasive survey system with rewards (small) could make feedback more effective as well as it can also send the message to every players that ANET are really taking us in consideration in their decision making process. It can be by in-game mail or small popup at a SIDE of the screen.

2. Urgently need of more maps and game modes for ranked – I understand that ANET is trying to bring fair maps… but hey… playing same 3 maps over and over for years is not the best way to do it. Nor is eliminating the new maps created instead of modifying them.

3. Don’t eliminate maps from unranked, we need variety (add a filter where players can select, unselect maps) – Unranked should be the relaxing and fun mode of our sPvP as opposite to the more competitive (and stressful) Ranked option. Keeping a good variety of maps at least in unranked helps to extend the lifespan of our sPvP.

4. Require 50 unranked (profession specific) wins to unlock the ranked option for that profession – This one doesn’t need much explanation.

5. Add a "comprehensive training boot camp (per account) as a requisite before doing any mode (ranked/unranked) sPvP – It is not the most wise decision (imo) to allow inexperienced players to be matched against significantly more experienced players at the current state of the game where we have many free account/new players joining a community or much more experienced/veteran players.

Lich King.1524:

Dear Arenanet, please read it carefully, it is important!

1. Feedback/Comminication.
People love your game and want to improve it. This is win/win situation! However, need to improve the communication. These forums are so hard to manage for you, hard to read and almost impossible to extract useful information. Please think: you acts as a government in a country where you have so many citizens. However, no government exists who are using forums to have feedback from their citizens. So no need even to invent a wheel – use existing methods, for example: ideas&votes, top-voted ideas you must at least consider; (like in US if petition has more than 100,000 votes government will consider it)
So need to have simple method to create ideas (threads)&collect votes to this;

2. You need to think about the core of PvP
PvP will be fun if possible to react/counter. If something impossible to counter = no fun at all;
Remember GW1 has good system.
Additional benefit: each team-member even can have specific role, which increases fun and team play;
So skills and counters in GW1:
Strong spells => counter: visible progress bar and possible to interrupt/divert; role to counter – interrupter (messmer/ranger)
Strong melee (war) => counter: freeze them or blind; (freezer or blinder role);
Strong freezer (ele) => counter: interrupt him, or focus (he is weak);
Strong focus (war) => counter: heal/protection: monk can use spirit bond, infuse, etc;
Strong heal (monk) => counter: messmer can divert him, or possible to drain mana, or knockdown
Too strong ranger/interrupter => use diversion to prevent his interrupts;
Too Many conditions => Special skills to remove them;
Too Many hexs => Special skills to remove them;
etc. etc.
Too strong skills have even specific disadvantages:
Too strong heal from infuse? = > added strong disadvantage – sacrifice half of health of healer;
in Gw2 we have no such strong core-system. We have too many skills/traits and attempts to balance them;
However, core problem causes chaotic and dumber gameplay like:
This is any bunker: => how to counter? No class/skills to deal with him/counter him alone. We can try just: a) kill him (using 2-3 players) or avoid him; so no nice ways to react; In the end developers decided – bunkers are evil, let’s remove amulets; But proper way must be to create good counters!;
This is a Reaper: => how to counter? No class who can deal with him/counter him except another reaper. We can try just: a) kill him earlier until he too strong (2-3 players) or avoid him; so no nice ways to react;
This is a traps from DH: => how to counter? No ways as all, just stay away and wait when it finished;

Do you feel that something wrong here?

You need to have proper mathematical model with will tell you:
Action1 -> Counter1;
Counter1 -> Counter2;
Counter2 -> Counter3;
etc.

To have easier balancing for all classes, check them all:
Damage over time cannot be bigger than X
Heal over time cannot be bigger than Y
Damage reduction over time cannot be bigger than Z
Number of conditions cannot be bigger than T
Amount of CC cannot be bigger than N
etc.

3. PvP lobby. Waiting is most boring thing ever. Most of the time when I waiting for sPvP I just hide GW2 window and do something else.
Just imagine in order to PLAY your game, I will HIDE your game. This is clear indication – this is not fun;
Many suggestions was here: make crafting in lobby, make free pvp in lobby, make queue in pve, etc wherever you will do, will be better than today; (free pvp in lobby will be so funny!)

4. Too much visual noise in the game.
To have successful eSport, you must make all actions/counter actions visible and UNDERSTANDABLE for spectators. Otherwise, new viewers will not understand what is going on during a battle;
I know you many times improved this but still too much noise.
Some simply suggestions here:
Each skill with same effect (CC-effect) must have similar visual sign;
More important skills (most damaging, etc) – must be visually more visible;

5. Teambuilding
GW1 has nice feature: if you win as a random team, you can continue as a team; it will provoke to create teams and will improve the community in general, more people will stay in pvp;
Current automatic team-disband made many negative effects.

Interesting ideas. +1

Gaile Gray.6029:

Excellent initiative, Cyanon! I will be tracking this thread, too!

(Just to be clear, “Top ##” posts aren’t the be-all and end-all of commentary about any form of gameplay. Noted and acknowledged. But they do make up part of a conversation, and they can be helpful, overall.)

Thanks to those who have been contributing!

Thanks Gaile for supporting this. I’ve noticed that the community of this game is relatively smart and we are lucky to have players who can really contribute with their ideas.

I hope we can keep this thread going as long as possible so everyone who cares about this game mode can add their grain of sand!

Thanks for posting guys! keep it up!

Sirendor.1394:

Cyanon.1928:

Inspired by the very useful post from Sirendor.1394 @ the WvW forums.

Lets share constructive posts on this subject!

Don’t know what I posted that inspired this, but nice!

I’m sorry, that was a mistake I made on the OP, I already corrected it, I wanted to say Dayra.7405 instead!

Thanks a lot for your reply anyway!!!

FOX.3582:

robotosis.4872:

I keep seeing teams where one person or more would stop trying and deliberately throw the match. Instead of leaving, they stay in base the entire round.

Reporting doesn’t seem to be doing much, as I see the same people doing it. Is there anything being done about this?

Don’t do stupid crap and people won’t go afk.

Examples:

From match start, two or three people cap home (and maybe even stay on it) – I go afk.

Before start you see your opponents team having two Reapers and two Dragonhunters while my team has three thieves and no one is willing to switch) – I go afk.

Match starts, one caps home, rest goes mid, immediate three people from my team are getting one-shot on mid because they don’t know how to dodge/invulnerable/block – I go afk.

Trying to communicate but nobody responds followed by a huge mess – I go afk.

I am not pro and I do not expect my teammates are the best. Just don’t do stupid crap. So if you see mee in your team, you better have some brain cells left. I am not here to make friends in PvP, I am here to win. Believe me when I say that I don’t give a crap about others, even less about complete idiots. Also do not think my opinion is unique, most afk’ers share this opinion. Maybe the only difference is that they could actually be looking for some friends, that’s probably the reason they don’t say it like I do…

Grtz…

FOX…

Hey, someone have to win the first fight… that does not mean they WILL win the game.

If you are smart enough, you see middle in bad shape then you disengage and de-cap or even cap far… then gg you have enemies 2 capped and forced to spread, by that moment the match must be even in points. Simple… even a baddie like you could do it.

However, since you decided to AFK you are not only destroying your own mmr, but also being the specific person responsible for the lost.

If you were good you would be able to do at least one the following:

1. Help the team by ADAPTING properly after first fight.

2. Find a decent team to pre-made

But you don’t do that because you aren’t good… you are a simple elitist… and there is only one thing worst than an elitist… it is a bad elitist…

You are not even good enough to be considered seriously by other elitists… thats why you queue with random people and get mad at them.

I understand… It must be frustrating for you to know that there is no place for you on this game….

I hope ANET ban you after enough reports are filled.

Grtz…

Cyanon…

We are trying to make a productive thread to let ANET know what we all believe must be changed/fixed/reworked.

Please keep the thread alive by posting your suggestions.

Here’s the link:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Your-Top-5-Suggestions-to-ANET-sPvP/first#post6032662

Alright guys, at least now we know that they are listening to us and that they are planning changes.

Lets bring on some constructive suggestions for sPvP so we can be helpful in that process.

I started a new topic for that. Please lets keep it going!

Here’s the link:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Your-Top-5-Suggestions-to-ANET-sPvP/first#post6032112

Xillllix.3485:

Personally I didn’t stop playing the game because of the matchmaking system.

In PvP there is no more build variety and cheese skill-less builds on terrible player dominate skilled players with interesting builds.

Correct, this is another symptom of the problem described in the OP.

Agemnon.4608:

If Daigo were here he’d be able to carry any team with a warrior or thief and soloQ to legend faster than even Helseth. Like Helseth said we should learn how to carry.

haha!

I agree, maybe we are just bad carriers!

Anomaly.7612:

Keira Ferland.5619:

Anomaly.7612:

This post just drools with arrogance. 10/10.

He does bring up a good point with subpar players being able to reach legendary by playing only against other subpar players.

Yeah, I agree with that, but as it stands now, it seems like the only way to get out of amber is to either be in a premade on TS, or just be a soloQ hero who can magically carry the team on their winged steeds. No thanks.

Cant be said better.

displacedTitan.6897:

At the end of the day, you and others can keep blaming the system each time you lose, but maybe, just maybe, you will realize that part of the blame is in yourself.

Im doing fairly well these days… and my points have nothing to do with my particular experience….. there are a lot of good players pointing out the flaws of the system.

One of the points you keep missing is that player skill has nothing to do with the system design at this point. If you keep thinking that you are then admitting that the system was unfair for the past 3 years and now it is fair….

Either way your argument in favor of mmr keeps being invalid as long as you justify it with player skill….

displacedTitan.6897:

I picked other 5v5 competitive games… how much more similar to this one do they need to be for you to accept the comparison? No kitten MMR is an algorithm, in fact, dota2 and CSGO both use modified glicko2 themselves so my point is even more valid.

Your quotes all say the same thing, even if you cant read between the lines, they realize that the start of the season has some bugs but they dont mention MMR or ratings in any way. They just acknowledge they should get the higher skill people out even faster than they did this season.

At the end of the day, you and others can keep blaming the system each time you lose, but maybe, just maybe, you will realize that part of the blame is in yourself. I told you before I struggled at the start of the season because I knew my MMR was lower than my skill, instead of coming here to cry I just made sure I played better and now its all good. Amazing how it works like that.

First, those game despite they are competitive, they are DIFFERENT you cant keep generalizing buddy….. any comparison bringing up different games is invalid because the context is different…. one aspect (MMR algorithm) does not define the fairness… it is much more complex and there are several variables to consider. You seem incapable of understanding it… So I give up trying to explain.

Second, giving feedback in a game’s forum from a player perspective is not crying… again you keep having conceptual problems… yet you keep talking…

Generalizing….. conceptual problems…. every time you write… I don’t blame you… Its not your fault. You just make your points based on the information you have available. As everyone else…..

We are going to have to agree to disagree.

displacedTitan.6897:

You keep calling it experimental and pretending that ANet said the whole thing was a dumpster fire but thats not what they said at all. They said “we are looking into it” in response to the criers on the forum. MMR itself is a system that absolutely works and works well in team based games ala LoL, DOTA2, CSGO, all of which are esports and excellent competitive games.

Well my friend, you are having a conceptual problem about the MMR…. MMR is not a “system” Its an algorithm part of the current ANET matchmaking system. There are many MMR algorithms (Glicko2 is only one of them). So you cant keep generalizing and cherry-picking other team based games to justify your point.

Aditionally, not all MMR algorithms are similar, not all of them work the same way for all games. There are many other variables that affect the whole matchmaking system its not just MMR…. (wich itself can be used in many different ways). In GW2 particularly, the match-ups consist of 5ppl so EACH player will have a lot of influence in the outcome of the match (1 bad rotation, 1 phone call, 1 afk will significantly affect the match). In that sense, teaming ppl who lost a few matches with new/bad players and matching them up against higher, better, class stacked teams will keep them in a loosing spiral and it will get worst and worst and worst unless they premade…. That right there is the problem because regardless of player skill, new players, bad players and casual experienced players wont see benefit in being req to premade in order to have fun in ranked pvp and they will just get stuck in higher divisions anyway… (as we are seeing this week).

On the other hand, take a look at this and tell me if ANET only said that they “were looking into it” as you mention.

Erick Waananen 3 days ago (Reddit.com Gw2 AMA)
“We are definitely aware that there are some frustrating match-ups being made during this Season’s initial kick off period and we are actively working to improve this for Season 3. "

Hugh Norfolk 3 days ago (Reddit.com GW2 AMA)

When asked about implementing a more fair matchmaking system

“[–]Galandil 3 days ago
Let’s talk about the elephant in the room: PvP season 2 matchmaking.
Will you fix it, removing the stacking algorithm, or change it in some significant way?
Any PvP loving player wants nice matches, not pre-determined stacked matches just for the sake of grinding/climbing useless ladders (like the divisions).
Will you ever bring back a much more fair system like the one in GW1 GvG?

[–]Anet_Hugh 3 points 1 day ago
We have gotten a lot of data on the first 2 weeks of the season and plan on making some changes to address some of the matchmaking pain points you are describing in season 3. We also are looking into improving the initial starting period of league seasons with regards to match quality."

John Corpening 3 days ago AMA (Reddit)

[–]Aggadan 3 days ago
About sPvP, how do you feel about the balance and the impact of engineer/ele/rev still being able to bunker, while the necro do a crazy amount of damage, the warrior can’t be competitive nor the thief or the mesmer? How do you consider the power creep? Is there a team working actively on balance ? How do you feel about the impossibility to play ranked between the pvp season? On a sidenote how do you consider the matchmaking for ranked, are you considering improvement to stop successive lose streak due to high spread of mmr between players in a same team?

[–]JohnCorpening 3 days ago
The team has been evaluating what to do in the off season. We don’t have a firm plan yet but it is something that is being discussed.
Regarding ranked play, it is our highly competitive mode. While everyone can participate in it, you do need to think of it more like a tournament. That said, we are looking at ways to get higher tier players to where they need to be faster. In S2 we added win streaks which our data has shown has helped a lot to achieve this. Again, no solid plans yet but this is something that the team is keeping a close eye on.

Erik Waananen in this very thread
“we know that there are frustrations for MANY players (particularly during the start of the season) with regard to matchmaking for Season 2.”

So, you see my friend, they said a lot more than “We are looking into it” They recognized match ups require better quality and even said they are planning changes to address matchmaking problems……

If you still think based on your anecdotal evidence (from your particular experience) that matchmaking is working good and people are juts bad/unskilled then there’s no point on keep discussing it with u. I’m not here to try to convince you. I only suggest you to be more responsible before generalizing.

Thanks for your feedback and gl.

Dolt.2731:

Celine.6857:

Cyanon.1928:

I have played many mmos in the past and at least the most successful mmos I have played had incredibly good customer service (even a live support chat which proved to be very helpful) and the connection between players and devs was noticeable not only in the forums but also in the game.

There are always problems (that’s typical), but they are addressed very fast compared to Gw2. And its a shame because GW2 always had the potential to easily become the best mmo of the decade…

I think this is pretty unfair to be honest. I 100% agree this subject needs addressing, but it doens’t mean their customer service is bad. There are 100s of things they are working on and have actively said so, here and elsewhere. Give them a break and stop complaining about what they know is wrong and suggest ways to fix it instead.

No one is ever, EVER going to be 100% happy, no matter what Anet do…

Regarding their customer service… You haven’t played this game very long have you?

I started playing since release, mostly PvP, WvW. If that’s not long enough for you then I’m not sure whats the purpose of your question.

Btw, I have directly experienced enough situations where I was unsatisfied with the cust. service regardless if they solved or not my particular issue. I have also seen similar experiences happening to several rl friends whom I play with since release.

Celine.6857:

Cyanon.1928:

I have played many mmos in the past and at least the most successful mmos I have played had incredibly good customer service (even a live support chat which proved to be very helpful) and the connection between players and devs was noticeable not only in the forums but also in the game.

There are always problems (that’s typical), but they are addressed very fast compared to Gw2. And its a shame because GW2 always had the potential to easily become the best mmo of the decade…

I think this is pretty unfair to be honest. I 100% agree this subject needs addressing, but it doens’t mean their customer service is bad. There are 100s of things they are working on and have actively said so, here and elsewhere. Give them a break and stop complaining about what they know is wrong and suggest ways to fix it instead.

No one is ever, EVER going to be 100% happy, no matter what Anet do…

You right, this particular issue with pvp has nothing to do with their cust. service. But this thread was about the lack of vision (bussiness wise) of ANET and i decided to add this post to the thread since their poor customer service is another symptom of that “lack of vision” from some key people inside the company. I just added this as another example… another symptom of the same disease.

Again, fairly speaking I also said, that this game had the potential to be the greatest of the decade… and that is because of many high quality aspects of it. I give them credit for that.

About suggestions, if you read my other posts in this same thread you can find my suggestions.

displacedTitan.6897:

StickerHappy.8052:

Cyanon.1928:

Erik Waananen.6089:

Sardath.8524:

- the MMR of average/bad players shouldn’t be lowered as much when losing against a team of a significantly higher MMR

I can confirm that the Ranked matchmaking system already works this way, and worked this way for Season 1 as well. The matches in which you lose against opponents that are much higher rated than you do not adjust your MMR significantly.

Sardath.8524:

- they need to add a preseason to fill the gap or to place people in the ladder based on the previous season

We are continuing to explore ideas for the upcoming off season period, as well as ways to improve overall match quality for Season 3, as we know that there are frustrations for many players (particularly during the start of the season) with regard to matchmaking for Season 2.

Erik, thanks for taking the time to join us in this discussion. You have no idea of the peace of mind that bring us the customers that someone is at least trying to address the issues of sPvP season 2.

It occurs to me that ANET could implement a survey system in which players can give feedback from inside the game by completing surveys in exchange of small rewards (this could be a powerful tool for ANET if its well developed).

SURVEY? THAT IS WHAT THE FORUMS ARE FOR.

The problem is they spend too much time and effort on reddit (WHICH IS A THIRD PARTY SITE)

Do you think this forum is an accurate cross section of the entire pvp playerbase?

Reddit which you seem to hate so much gets many more posts and comments than this forum does, regardless of its non-official status. Still Reddit isnt a cross section of the player base in any meaningful survey-able way.

Just look at this thread, people dont even understand the basics of how MMR works when you get match against much higher/lower skill teams and yet I see them griping in thread after thread about how unfair the system is being. As if the system itself is out to get them or something and its not just a lack of player skill.

About the only agreeable thing in this entire thread is that they should show our MMR, to just ourselves, so that people stop crying.

First, this forum is not an accurate cross-section, nor is Reddit. And forums are not good places to take surveys. That’s why I suggested a “set of In-Game occasional small surveys”.

Second, a player used to win 50-60% of soloQ for the last 3 years should not be considered as “relatively unskilled”. We have to be careful with generalization. There is a problem in the matchmaking system and ANET already recognized it.

If you want to keep considering veteran players as unskilled, just because they got stuck in a losing streak for doing their usual soloQ the first couple days/week and now are being teamed with newer non-dedicated, less skilled players and facing higher mmr enemy teams you are not really understanding the implications of this experimental matchmaking system at all.

Kayberz.5346:

StickerHappy.8052:

Cyanon.1928:

Erik Waananen.6089:

Sardath.8524:

- the MMR of average/bad players shouldn’t be lowered as much when losing against a team of a significantly higher MMR

I can confirm that the Ranked matchmaking system already works this way, and worked this way for Season 1 as well. The matches in which you lose against opponents that are much higher rated than you do not adjust your MMR significantly.

Sardath.8524:

- they need to add a preseason to fill the gap or to place people in the ladder based on the previous season

We are continuing to explore ideas for the upcoming off season period, as well as ways to improve overall match quality for Season 3, as we know that there are frustrations for many players (particularly during the start of the season) with regard to matchmaking for Season 2.

Erik, thanks for taking the time to join us in this discussion. You have no idea of the peace of mind that bring us the customers that someone is at least trying to address the issues of sPvP season 2.

It occurs to me that ANET could implement a survey system in which players can give feedback from inside the game by completing surveys in exchange of small rewards (this could be a powerful tool for ANET if its well developed).

SURVEY? THAT IS WHAT THE FORUMS ARE FOR.

The problem is they spend too much time and effort on reddit (WHICH IS A THIRD PARTY SITE)

A survey on the forums would accomplish nothing, all the crybabies will just flock to it to spam anet hate, while a majority of players would never even see it.
The in game survey with a small reward attatched is actually a really good idea for getting (somewhat) acurate results.
As it stands you could post a survey on this forum asking about peoples opinion on a portion of the game proven to be widely liked/successful and 90% of the responses would be negative anet hate speech, 5% would be legit responses, and the other 5% would be people claiming the positive responses are “white knights” or saying “how much did anet pay you to say that”

I’m ONLY suggesting a set of small occasional In-Game surveys with small rewards (not forum), and the results are not to be shared in forums or anywhere (people tend to be more toxic/inflammatory and less objective when they feel general public is listening).

We give them feedback, they receive it, they make their development decisions taking the specific information they asked for in the survey (I’m not going into specifics here to keep this post simple).

The great thing about surveys is that if they are well developed they can be very accurate (as you mentioned) and also representative of the typical gw2 player as opposite to forum posts.

QQing.3089:

But you won’t fix class stacking, which is the biggest issue next to class balance. Yay….

I think class stacking is part of the overall issues of the matchmaking system that they claim to be discussing now according to AMA.

StickerHappy.8052:

Cyanon.1928:

Erik Waananen.6089:

Sardath.8524:

- the MMR of average/bad players shouldn’t be lowered as much when losing against a team of a significantly higher MMR

I can confirm that the Ranked matchmaking system already works this way, and worked this way for Season 1 as well. The matches in which you lose against opponents that are much higher rated than you do not adjust your MMR significantly.

Sardath.8524:

- they need to add a preseason to fill the gap or to place people in the ladder based on the previous season

We are continuing to explore ideas for the upcoming off season period, as well as ways to improve overall match quality for Season 3, as we know that there are frustrations for many players (particularly during the start of the season) with regard to matchmaking for Season 2.

Erik, thanks for taking the time to join us in this discussion. You have no idea of the peace of mind that bring us the customers that someone is at least trying to address the issues of sPvP season 2.

It occurs to me that ANET could implement a survey system in which players can give feedback from inside the game by completing surveys in exchange of small rewards (this could be a powerful tool for ANET if its well developed).

SURVEY? THAT IS WHAT THE FORUMS ARE FOR.

The problem is they spend too much time and effort on reddit (WHICH IS A THIRD PARTY SITE)

I hear you, but surveys can be targeted to w/e ANET need to know and they can avoid having to read tons of forum posts every day and going through all the complaining, raging, bad writing techniques etc etc… that can be found in forums.

Small non-invasive survey system with rewards (small) could make feedback more effective as well as it can also send the message to every players that ANET are really taking us in consideration in their decision making process.

Erik Waananen.6089:

Sardath.8524:

- the MMR of average/bad players shouldn’t be lowered as much when losing against a team of a significantly higher MMR

I can confirm that the Ranked matchmaking system already works this way, and worked this way for Season 1 as well. The matches in which you lose against opponents that are much higher rated than you do not adjust your MMR significantly.

Sardath.8524:

- they need to add a preseason to fill the gap or to place people in the ladder based on the previous season

We are continuing to explore ideas for the upcoming off season period, as well as ways to improve overall match quality for Season 3, as we know that there are frustrations for many players (particularly during the start of the season) with regard to matchmaking for Season 2.

Erik, thanks for taking the time to join us in this discussion. You have no idea of the peace of mind that bring us the customers that someone is at least trying to address the issues of sPvP season 2.

It occurs to me that ANET could implement a survey system in which players can give feedback from inside the game by completing small surveys once in a while in exchange of small rewards (this could be a powerful tool for ANET if its well developed).

ETS guild has been growing and now many good players are having a chance to end their losing streak and overcome our current fail matchmaking system by doing parties with like minded players now available as guildies.

This was a great Idea for those who want to keep pvping despite the current core problems.

If you read this thread and you are interested to know more, feel free join ETS and start making parties or joining parties with ppl from within your current division rank.

Arvin.3124:

I think people will still keep whining because everyone feels they are better at sPvP than they really are. When you have leagues there will always have to be people who are just Ambers and will be stuck there, same goes for every league division going up.

I didn’t pvp at all last season because I left GWII after HoT came out and just recently got back. So I was not only teamed up with total newbies but also quite rusty myself.

I grinded my way up to high Sapphire ankitten ow getting to a point where I’m sort of stuck there. I’m fine with this, and figure that once I really get better I will move up sooner or later.

I’m not saying early season hasn’t been bad by the way, just that no matter what ANet wouldve done, people who are just stuck for whatever reason will always complain about it being the systems fault instead of them having a part in it as well. This especially goes for the massive lose-streak posts. If you lose that many games in a row you have to start seriously asking yourself if you’re not in a big part contributing to the losses.

I understand you Arvin and the point you are making is very valid. However, the new problem here is that people who are clearly pvp veterans and have been in top 100 leaderboards with a great historic win/lose ratio are being teamed with people who have no clue about rotations, their own class role, builds, etc… I know many above average players suffering from this.. Even ANET recognized the actual problems of the current season in their latest public expressions 2 days ago (FINALLY) https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Reddit-PvP-Questions-to-Anet/first#post6027978

However, they still silent here in the OFFICIAL FORUMS…. which is a shame.

Well, At least they are recognizing that the current system is experimental “gathered a ton of data in the first weeks that will help make improvements for season 3”

Also they are admitting that their matchmaking system simply does not work. That is a good sign.

I know, they are not unaware. They are very aware and they are very smart and capable people. The problem however, might be that they lack vision in their leadership.

I don’t know how their business model is structured but it seems to me that some key people in ANET are lacking the necessary vision to manage this type of product. That would be a shame because of the incredible potential that GW2 had… (have?).

warbignime.4610:

Dude, forum is like this since day one launch of the game. So welcome to every mmo forum ever I guess.

I Agree, I was slowly pushed out of WvW because the same core problems with ANET…. now this (sPVP) is the last “enjoyable” aspect of the game for me and they are doing a great job pushing people our of it too.

I have played many mmos in the past and at least the most successful mmos I have played had incredibly good customer service (even a live support chat which proved to be very helpful) and the connection between players and devs was noticeable not only in the forums but also in the game.

There are always problems (that’s typical), but they are addressed very fast compared to Gw2. And its a shame because GW2 always had the potential to easily become the best mmo of the decade…

morrolan.9608:

Cyanon.1928:

The unprecedented amount of forum post about the now obvious problems of the matchmaking system is a clear signal that something wrong is happening here…

However, ANET decides to stay silent… which promotes even more dissension, rage and ultimately less players.

They did talk about PvP in the Reddit AMA a couple of days ago. The primary thing that came out of it is that they are aware of the matchmaking problems and are working on it.

I did read the whole thing, and never found any mentions of matchmaking problems, perhaps I missed it.

Anyway, Reddit talk with FANS is one thing, official posts in official forums is where they should be addressing our complaints in my opinion.

They must be having internal problems for sure, specially given the history of failure at addressing the core problems and the noticeable disconnection from the player base that ultimately leads to less revenue.

gloflop.3510:

I have no clue what they have done in the development team of ArenaNet. WvW was killed (sorry to say it that clear). PvP was not thought through with all its consequences. If I were the boss, I would step in and replace some key persons. From far outside I would say that the mistake they made was to focus on the hardcore players and streamer. However, the majority of the players are anything EXCEPT hardcore. The majority of the players generate the income. I have doubts that there will be a Guild Wars 3.

+1 this post, very well described.

The unprecedented amount of forum post about the now obvious problems of the matchmaking system is a clear signal that something wrong is happening here…

However, ANET decides to stay silent… which promotes even more dissension, rage and ultimately less players.

This company needs major reforms and very quick if they are intending to keep this game profitable.

They have no idea of the amazing power of a simple forum post saying stuff like “We are aware of several issues reported regarding the matchmaking system and we are addressing such issues”.

We are real persons spending real time of our lives consuming your product and we deserve some respect.

Bump this up guys, lets keep people joining!

We have been pointing this out for an entire week now…

ANET’s usual silence serve as a spark for forum raging… if they at least answer us by saying they are looking into it… or that they know there are unintended problems that are being addressed…. The forums would me MUCH nicer and the amount of players quitting the game would be much less…